Formula 1 Myworld Grosser Preis Von Osterreich 2019

[tonytiger55]

Austria… The birth place of RED BULL..

86572

After winning the Tour De France, and pushing back ze Germans. Our winning hero travels to Austria with the rest of the circus.
Lots of castles in Austria.. But Hamiltons arch enemy Vettle has retreated back to his Castle Wolfenstein to plot his next attack.

What could we have in store for our net race..? What about the midpack...otherwise known by Reddit as F1.5.
Richardio has had time to lick his wounds and plot his comeback. Lando might have another opportunity to Win F1.5. Perez might take the opportunity to piss everyone off again.. oh the drama…

Williams have continued to show their brilliant progress by finishing the last race and not breaking down.
Paddy Lowe has stepped down as technical director at Williams. It was felt his last name was having an effect on the teams performance at the start of the year and the staff became superstitious.

Le Clerc was caught by a local fan eating a chicken on a bone at a local oriental eatery (it could have been a duck leg..just saying).
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Our fan took the opportunity to ask our new hero ‘How will he deal with Mercedes unstoppable power and the resurgence of Mclaren..?’ to which Le Clerc replied in a steely Keenau Reeves voice.. ‘I know Kung Fu’.

Bring on Race 9...

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[phreezee]

Hate tracks with huge run off areas like Paul Ricard and appreciate punishing tracks that sap driver confidence. Bottas had the worst of it, but Max and Seb also had incidents in FP2.

[rage2]

Front wings falling off, crashes left and right, this should be fun.

Rewatched some of the older races, pretty damn exciting.

Go McLaren!

[chongkee_]

Front wings falling off, crashes left and right, this should be fun.

Rewatched some of the older races, pretty damn exciting.

Go McLaren!

McLaren once again seems to be best of the rest.
Glad they're finally out of their slump and on the upswing.
It can be said now that previous increase in pace weren't just glory runs.

[2Legit2Quit]

I need to go to Austria

[phreezee]

Leclerc didn't even have a tow on his last run and should win this race. I'd like to see Lewis get that grid penalty just to make it interesting.

[speedog]

Hamilton given 3 place grid penalty, should make for a much more entertaining race with how the starting lineup is set.

[revelations]

Hamilton given 3 place grid penalty, should make for a much more entertaining race with how the starting lineup is set.

https://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2019/06/29/15618181198227.jpg

[rage2]

Leclerc didn't even have a tow on his last run and should win this race. I'd like to see Lewis get that grid penalty just to make it interesting.
Ferrari seems to have slower race pace than qualifying pace mainly due to fuel consumption, so it could be closer than you think. Also Ferrari will invent a new way to lose the race haha.

[phreezee]

^ haha , probably.

So Lewis starts 4th because the way the penalties are applied.

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[rage2]

How every national anthem should be played:

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[phreezee]

Go Max Go!

[tonytiger55]

Max takes the lead!! Brilliant!!

[rage2]

Honda wins. WTF hahaha

[2Legit2Quit]

Max is a beast, VTEC kicked in

[Chandler_Racing]

Masterclass put on by Max too bad about the start otherwise he would of dominated that race.

Pretty sure the Honda engine was in near qualifying trim the last 10 laps.

This one solidifies Ric’s move as a bonehead one.

[phreezee]

Gasly must be under threat now. Being lapped by your team mate on pure pace after being ahead of him after the start is inexcusable.

[tonytiger55]

Max is still under investigation. I was reading on Guardian news live feed, the stewards will need a watr tight case to appease Ferarri.
Max did not hit the apex.
What ya all think..? Fair pass or Leclerc got a unfair finger in the bum..?

[schocker]

Racing incident. Super consistent with their rulings this season :rofl:
Was hoping Leclerc would win but Max takes the chance to just force him off when he would have just used DRS around the corner and got past him? He was clearly faster at that point and had given him room the lap prior.

[tonytiger55]

Gasly must be under threat now. Being lapped by your team mate on pure pace after being ahead of him after the start is inexcusable.

Is there a technical reason why he is so slow compared to Max? Ive been looking online and my google fu is not coming up with anything..

[npham]

He's technically a worse driver?

[speedog]

The most entertaining 2019 race so far?

[eblend]

The most entertaining 2019 race so far?

By far

[rage2]

The most entertaining 2019 race so far?


By far

I dunno, I liked Bahrain better. Thought Austria was on par with Canada.

[Misterman]

I can't believe there isn't more arguing over the Verstappen call. He basically bulldozed his way in when Leclerc had the line, and forced him off the track. Seems touchy to call that a "racing incident"

I am happy to see some legit challenge from RBR though. I was hoping the Honda engine would make them a top contender and make things more interesting.

[rage2]

I can't believe there isn't more arguing over the Verstappen call. He basically bulldozed his way in when Leclerc had the line, and forced him off the track. Seems touchy to call that a "racing incident"

I am happy to see some legit challenge from RBR though. I was hoping the Honda engine would make them a top contender and make things more interesting.
If it's not Hamilton/Mercedes gaining something, there's no outrage. People just want to see non Mercedes win. Canada outrage wasn't Ferrari losing, Ferrari lost here with same blatant rule breach. Canada outrage was because Mercedes won. Every race is boring if Mercedes wins. Social media F1 fans are fucking stupid.

[speedog]

If it's not Hamilton/Mercedes gaining something, there's no outrage. People just want to see non Mercedes win. Canada outrage wasn't Ferrari losing, Ferrari lost here with same blatant rule breach. Canada outrage was because Mercedes won. Every race is boring if Mercedes wins. Social media F1 fans are fucking stupid.

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[2Legit2Quit]

Max braked later and his steering wheel was fully cranked to the right, somewhat on the fringe but fine to me.

[rage2]

Max braked later and his steering wheel was fully cranked to the right, somewhat on the fringe but fine to me.
How does that matter? He made an impossible move stick by forcing opponent off the track. Intention (steering full lock) has nothing to do with it. This is coming from someone who loves watching Ferrari lose.

Either you always allow these moves and drivers are allowed to drive dirty, or you don’t let it happen. The inconsistency for the sake of the show destroys the spirit of competition. Competitors basically have no idea what they can and can’t do. Think hockey, a clear goalie interference call going under review, and allowing the goal to make the game more exciting.

Had a long discussion with a few others, and really there is no winning situation where it’s fair racing and not ruin excitement with penalties. You let them race, and you have the Schumacher chop making passing drivers impossible. You enforce rules to the letter of the law and you have the Canada situation. You do something in between, and you have inconsistency making drivers confused as to what they can and can’t do. What’s funny about all these driving and passing rules is that they’re all the result of drivers bitching when it was a free for all. The Schumacher chop (1 move under braking), rosberg forcing Alonso off (must leave space if front wing is ahead of rear wheel) are all results of pissed off at asshole driving. Ironic as drivers moan when the rules they set out are enforced against them. For fans, it’s even more confusing as only some rules makes it into the sporting regulations. The rest are unpublished FIA directives and clarifications hashed our in driver pre race meetings that sometimes gets leaked to the public and are carried over race to race.

[speedog]

Just put some fenders on them and let them beat/bang on each other.

[Buster]

How does that matter? He made an impossible move stick by forcing opponent off the track. Intention (steering full lock) has nothing to do with it. This is coming from someone who loves watching Ferrari lose.

Either you always allow these moves and drivers are allowed to drive dirty, or you don’t let it happen. The inconsistency for the sake of the show destroys the spirit of competition. Competitors basically have no idea what they can and can’t do. Think hockey, a clear goalie interference call going under review, and allowing the goal to make the game more exciting.

Had a long discussion with a few others, and really there is no winning situation where it’s fair racing and not ruin excitement with penalties. You let them race, and you have the Schumacher chop making passing drivers impossible. You enforce rules to the letter of the law and you have the Canada situation. You do something in between, and you have inconsistency making drivers confused as to what they can and can’t do. What’s funny about all these driving and passing rules is that they’re all the result of drivers bitching when it was a free for all. The Schumacher chop (1 move under braking), rosberg forcing Alonso off (must leave space if front wing is ahead of rear wheel) are all results of pissed off at asshole driving. Ironic as drivers moan when the rules they set out are enforced against them. For fans, it’s even more confusing as only some rules makes it into the sporting regulations. The rest are unpublished FIA directives and clarifications hashed our in driver pre race meetings that sometimes gets leaked to the public and are carried over race to race.

I thought steering angle was taken into account. Wasn't that one of the reasons they busted on Vettel in Canada?

[rage2]

I thought steering angle was taken into account. Wasn't that one of the reasons they busted on Vettel in Canada?
Nope. Stewards just said not enough space for both cars, stupid because there’s 5 car widths to the right lol.

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It sets a dangerous precedence for dive bombs and forcing people off track. Of course the next time it happens it’ll be penalized haha.

[revelations]

I believe it has something to do with not being able to assign a majority of the blame on one driver.

[Misterman]

If it's not Hamilton/Mercedes gaining something, there's no outrage. People just want to see non Mercedes win. Canada outrage wasn't Ferrari losing, Ferrari lost here with same blatant rule breach. Canada outrage was because Mercedes won. Every race is boring if Mercedes wins. Social media F1 fans are fucking stupid.

Well the two incidents were a little different. Shit situation for Vettel to go off the track like that, but the stewards actually enforced the rule correctly. In this case with Verstappen and Leclerc, Leclerc actually got fucked by the stewards.



Max braked later and his steering wheel was fully cranked to the right, somewhat on the fringe but fine to me.

If he was full lock, and still couldn't leave room for the guy that had the line to stay on the track, then it means he braked too late and made a mistake.




I believe it has something to do with not being able to assign a majority of the blame on one driver.

I don't know who else you would assign blame to but the guy that dive bombed down the inside, off the racing line, and pushed the lead driver off the track?

[rage2]

I believe it has something to do with not being able to assign a majority of the blame on one driver.

I don't know who else you would assign blame to but the guy that dive bombed down the inside, off the racing line, and pushed the lead driver off the track?
Precisely. If you look at the previous attempt, Max left just enough room so Leclerc was still on the track, it allowed Leclerc to fight back and properly defend his position. Max literally took that away from Leclerc to force the pass.

My opinion, the decision to let the results stand was to avoid the backlash stemming from the Canadian GP penalty. It was purely to appease fans and not for the sport. That said, I'm glad Ferrari found yet another way to fuck it up. :rofl:

[phreezee]

Leclerc should have defended the inside and made Max take the long way round. If you leave it open and some one walks through, you shouldn't bitch. Width of track is one thing, but in the heat of the battle, trajectory and speed must be taken into account.

[rage2]

Leclerc should have defended the inside and made Max take the long way round. If you leave it open and some one walks through, you shouldn't bitch. Width of track is one thing, but in the heat of the battle, trajectory and speed must be taken into account.
So always pass/defend on inside, outside has no right to the track. Got it.

If Max was actually ahead of Leclerc, there's an argument that he had the right to the racing line. They were side by side FFS. Wasn't even a question of being ahead using the FIA directive definition. For the record what's deemed ahead:

"For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion."

That directive was used in the Rosberg crowding on the straight situation, and used as a guideline since for any overtaking "right of way".

[Buster]

Leclerc should have defended the inside and made Max take the long way round. If you leave it open and some one walks through, you shouldn't bitch. Width of track is one thing, but in the heat of the battle, trajectory and speed must be taken into account.

yup. I didn't think it deserved a penalty.

[tonytiger55]

Looking back. I think Max just did enough to try and make himself look innocent. I think it was questionable how he did not hit the apex. I don't think there was a need for this type of maneuver. I though was faster anyway. It was only a matter of time till he overtook.
That move had the stench of Schumacher all over it.

I think the officials were screwed. It should have been a penalty for Max. But the backlash would be too great and bad for the sport.
If they did nothing then its inconsistency. So the officials labeling as a racing incident is more to protect themselves from the backlash of either side.

[Buster]

Hit an apex but not the most usual apex. Passing means that one or both of the cars is going to be off the racing line. All this bullshit drs passing has ruined everyone's impression of what a real pass looks like.

[rage2]

Hit an apex but not the most usual apex. Passing means that one or both of the cars is going to be off the racing line. All this bullshit drs passing has ruined everyone's impression of what a real pass looks like.
Off the racing line, perfectly fine. Off the track, if that's OK, then shit, let's make it a free for all consistently then. Bring back the good old days of racing where this was legal to win a championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo

DRS isn't really as gimmicky as you'd imagine. It originated from McLaren as the F-Duct to stall the rear wing for better straight line speed within the rules. Instead of everyone copying them and spending $, FIA just made it legal and cheap. I mean if we didn't have that, we could go back to the 90's and the 20 years of no passing era in the golden age of aerodynamics.

[phreezee]

So always pass/defend on inside, outside has no right to the track. Got it.


Not at all. But awareness of what corner you are going into, who's behind you, how close they are, tire differential, etc is crucial in defending.
Everyone applauds when someone pulls off a pass on the outside because it is inherently harder. There's a reason they call it "going the long way round."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3a1vwsWz3c

[phreezee]

Jolyon Palmer has a great video on this debate with a walk down memory lane.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=now3s1SM1_o

[rage2]

Not at all. But awareness of what corner you are going into, who's behind you, how close they are, tire differential, etc is crucial in defending.
Everyone applauds when someone pulls off a pass on the outside because it is inherently harder. There's a reason they call it "going the long way round."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3a1vwsWz3c
Take a look, lap 68, where Leclerc successfully defended the position from the outside. It may be the "long way around" but for the Ferrari and it's attributes vs RBR, it works. Then look at lap 69, where he's run off the road, and didn't have an ability to defend the position again.

https://youtu.be/cV0G1zN8kJU?t=54

The reason why Max made the pass was because he forced Leclerc off the road. It's not legal as per the rules.

[Buster]

Off the racing line, perfectly fine. Off the track, if that's OK, then shit, let's make it a free for all consistently then. Bring back the good old days of racing where this was legal to win a championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo

DRS isn't really as gimmicky as you'd imagine. It originated from McLaren as the F-Duct to stall the rear wing for better straight line speed within the rules. Instead of everyone copying them and spending $, FIA just made it legal and cheap. I mean if we didn't have that, we could go back to the 90's and the 20 years of no passing era in the golden age of aerodynamics.

Racing is degrees of subtlety but penalties either exist or they don't. So we ultimately have to simply draw a line between two similar events... One gets penalized but the other is not. This looks and feels like inconsistency but it isn't m

I'm fine with where they draw the line.

[rage2]

Racing is degrees of subtlety but penalties either exist or they don't. So we ultimately have to simply draw a line between two similar events... One gets penalized but the other is not. This looks and feels like inconsistency but it isn't m

I'm fine with where they draw the line.
In my other chat, I had proposed a system where you draw a hard line on penalties. Letter of the law. However, you get a freebie each race, sort of a yellow card/red card situation. That will allow leeway, yet make it predictable for drivers and fans.

Wonder how that would work out, and what loopholes driver would use to take advantage of it.

[phreezee]

Take a look, lap 68, where Leclerc successfully defended the position from the outside. It may be the "long way around" but for the Ferrari and it's attributes vs RBR, it works. Then look at lap 69, where he's run off the road, and didn't have an ability to defend the position again.


Jolyon covers laps 67,68,69 in the video I posted. Lap 67, 68, Leclerc parked his car in the middle of the road and was better positioned.
Sure the Ferrari has the power, but Leclerc shouldn't have left himself vulnerable. Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.
Max went for the gap he was given on lap 69.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=186

[rage2]

Jolyon covers laps 67,68,69 in the video I posted. Lap 67, 68, Leclerc parked his car in the middle of the road and was better positioned.
Sure the Ferrari has the power, but Leclerc shouldn't have left himself vulnerable. Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.
Max went for the gap he was given on lap 69.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=186
Jolyon explains it better than I did.

Lap 68, Max was actually ahead of Leclerc and could've used all the space without any debate. Completely legal, was ahead based on the full on directive definition. Instead, he left room.

Lap 69, side by side, didn't leave room. Also shows that he unwinds his wheel so Max did intend to run him off the road.

If Max did it on 68, or waited a lap and tried again when he's ahead, he could've ran him wide without running into even an investigation.

End of the day, it's a shitty move on Lap 69. Period. Leclerc covered the middle of the road. The inside line looked to have worse traction, hence Max on 68 was beaten to the next corner even though he passed cleanly.

[OTown]

Jolyon explains it better than I did.

Lap 68, Max was actually ahead of Leclerc and could've used all the space without any debate. Completely legal, was ahead based on the full on directive definition. Instead, he left room.

Lap 69, side by side, didn't leave room. Also shows that he unwinds his wheel so Max did intend to run him off the road.

If Max did it on 68, or waited a lap and tried again when he's ahead, he could've ran him wide without running into even an investigation.

End of the day, it's a shitty move on Lap 69. Period. Leclerc covered the middle of the road. The inside line looked to have worse traction, hence Max on 68 was beaten to the next corner even though he passed cleanly.

Yeah I've got to agree with Jolyon on that video. Its just not enough for a penalty, but I think Max should have given more room as he did the first try.

What a race though. Edge of my seat, I would agree this was the best race of the year so far.

[Misterman]

Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.



This is where it gets a little funny. Leclerc DID learn. He learned that Max couldn't make that pass by cutting the corner short. So there was no need to adjust. Everything should have worked out just fine, Leclerc shouldn't need to forecast that another driver would just say "Fuck the rules" and run him off the track, especially after said driver already learned himself he didn't have space for that pass attempt.

[phreezee]

Meh, don't bet on the other guy being nice and not hanging you out to dry. Nobody ever does that on purpose.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=427

Subtleties of racing that Max got right to not get a penalty and that Charles got wrong in defending.

[rage2]

Would be hilarious to see everyone starts running people off the track on the inside to make a pass or defend starting now. :rofl:

[phreezee]

It's already hilarious and gave us moments like this:

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[rage2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fmkjf

BBC Radio review of the Austrian GP and the penalty. Pretty much captures my exact thoughts.

[phreezee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fmkjf

BBC Radio review of the Austrian GP and the penalty. Pretty much captures my exact thoughts.

Agreed, good commentary and it also captures my thoughts at 6m07s.

[tonytiger55]

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[Buster]

Leclerc thought he could just drive around the track on a perfect line without needing to defend. It's almost cute when you look at it. Here's how car racing has been the last century: you defend the inside line, thereby slowing you down slightly from the optimal line around the corner. The guy behind you can use that to get a better run out of the corner on the next straight. Leclerc thinks this type of battle is below him I guess?

[rage2]

Can’t tell you what made Leclerc choose to defend on the outside, but it worked in the previous laps. Maybe he knew that the Ferrari has a huge power advantage and wanted a longer run that way because he would sacrifice a lot more against the Red Bull on the inside as mechanical grip isn’t the Ferrari’s strong suit.

One thing’s for sure from this pass and this thread, it’s got me defending Ferrari. Who would’ve thought. :nut:

[OTown]

Having thought more about it and watching that bbc podcast, I totally agree with them re: Villeneuve Arnoux in Dijon. I can see this being a very bad precedent.

[rage2]

Having thought more about it and watching that bbc podcast, I totally agree with them re: Villeneuve Arnoux in Dijon. I can see this being a very bad precedent.
Yup. I actually rewatched Villeneuve Arnoux after listening to the podcast to see how it would be analyzed under today's regulations. Reference:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nxwn3OHkEw

Interesting how both drivers left the inside open. Anyways, the investigation would go something like this.

1:23 both drivers make contact within track limits. No advantage gained, nobody run off the track, racing incident.
1:25 Both Arnoux and Villeneuve understeer wide with no contact. Arnoux left the track and re-entered safely. No advantage gained, racing incident.
1:33 both drivers make contact within track limits. No advantage gained, nobody run off the track, racing incident.

So maybe our rules aren't as bad as we thought they are.

[OTown]

I would also say the advent of DRS will also likely make those types of battles pretty hard to do due to the advantage given. Also, the cars of nowadays can barely follow each other when up close.

[rage2]

I would also say the advent of DRS will also likely make those types of battles pretty hard to do due to the advantage given. Also, the cars of nowadays can barely follow each other when up close.
I think this is a solvable solution. If you look at RBR, they can follow way closer than other teams, even through faster corners.

But yes, generally, huge downforce and aero sensitivity has made replicating something like this difficult.