Looking for manual AWD?!?! STI, WRX, golf R and what else?

[bcylau]

Looking to buy a used manual AWD car. Moving from an Abarth to something that can fit a car seat. And the wifey wants a manual instead of auto. Preferably under $30k, ideally around $20-25k

The subie engines scare me, but if its around $10k then I can put a closed deck engine in there and hopefully the engine will have less problems. But I think STI seems like the most interesting car as a baby hauler.

Golf R is also a possibility, probably could only afford mk6 with my budget. Repairs seem expensive but havent really look deep into the golf r issues.

Other choices focus rs, audi A4, S4?

Anyways, expecting a baby so I want an interesting car but save as much money as I can for the kiddo to spend. The car should hopefully be low hassle as this will be my 1st kid and rather pay attention to the family than wrenching cars. Keeping the car for 5 years or so.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

2015+ WRX is probably the most logical choice in my eyes.

[revelations]

Im no Audi expert - but 'low hassle' and used Audis (most German cars in fact) are generally incongruous.

[finboy]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2005-forester-xt-5spd-premium/1438863931?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[revelations]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2005-forester-xt-5spd-premium/1438863931?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Dude bought it less than a year ago, spent piss ton on mods - including a large sum a few months back - and is now selling?

You can keep a baby in that car just fine - no need to sell.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dirtsniffer]

335

[Mitsu3000gt]

A current gen (2017+) A4 would get my vote. Reliability is no different than anything else on your list, surprisingly fast (~5.4 sec 0-60), great on gas, and you get lots of tech. As a do-everything sedan, it leaves very little to desire. The Subarus and all their engine issues are probably the most worrysome.

Used S4 would be no problem at all, especially if 6MT or 2013+. The two S4's I had over many years and ~200,000km++ were as reliable as my Civics and daily driven year round, and one of them was modified for over 130,000 kms. Currently have a 2016 Audi in the family that has not had a single problem in 3 years so far. I wouldn't worry about it at all provided it has been maintained properly and not bagged for its entire life like some are (which is where you find the issues). Only problem with the S4's is that you have to go a bit older for your price range, so you miss out on a lot of the tech features if that is an issue.

[tonytiger55]

I don't mean to shit on your thread. Maybe also run alternative search alongside based on car safety ratings..?
Your expecting a child and I think car safety should be no1 on that list. Then work backwards on that.

Euro NAcp ratings are a goodplace to start: https://www.euroncap.com/en
There are some other sites, but they dont seem to be detailed.

My reason for saying is that there are a lot of trucks and SUVs on the road. Combine that with a lot of dumb drivers. If your car gets side swiped with your wife driving and baby in the back. Is the concern that it is a interesting car to drive, AWD and a manual shifter..? Or that it looks shitty but manufacturer put money into protecting its occupants....?

There are no real big choices for awd manual.
If its Subaru, the Cross trek comes in a manual, go for ones after 2016(I think), they went from a 5 to a 6 speed shiftier. But may not be interesting to drive.

I'd buy a Volvo..just saying..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=122&v=mh3j82MPmt4

[370Z]

2013 Audi S4... apparently they are super reliable.

But like someone said if you're expecting a child, skip all this crap and go for cargo storage and safety. Keep a sports car in the home for when you don't have the kid. Unfortunately there is no such thing as safe and good for kids and "fun".

[RX_EVOLV]

Agree. You are not going to do much spirited driving anyway when you have an infant in the back , and you'll definitly appreciate having the extra space for stroller and stuff more than the rare moments you are out in the family car without having the kid in the back.

I had a MK7 Golf R but traded it in for a X5 because of the kid. I miss the R lots but baby is 4 months old now and I have zero regrets upsizing.

[Mitsu3000gt]

You don't have to buy a boring car just because it's going to carry a kid - just save your fun for when you aren't carrying the kid. There are tons of very practical cars that are also a lot of fun to drive. That said I wouldn't buy something as tiny as a WRX/STi for a family hauler.

[arcticcat522]

I have a 2013 manual audi a4 that is what you are looking for. 2nd owner, all service upto date. Check below for info

2013 Audi A4 Premiun Quattro 2.0t,
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2013-audi-a4-premiun-quattro-2-0t/1443794173?utm_source=Gmail&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android

[Aleks]

How tall are you/your SO? If you are anywhere near 6 foot tall, all the choices you listed would be a PITA for daily use with a back facing child seat mounted in the middle. Unless this would be an occasional child hauler. I have had those seats in the GTI/WRX/STI/335 occasionally and it sucked.

[Darell_n]

My wife is stay at home with 2 small kids and drives an ‘08 Wrx hatch. 2 car seats with 1 rear facing, stroller, trips to Costco, 3 bikes on the back no problem. I’m 6’2” and can still drive it comfortably with the entire family in there. Don’t be afraid of space in them. Although, we are looking at moving to a Subaru Ascent in the next few years.

[JustinL]

My daily driver is a 2013 S4 with a car seat in the back. The S4 is a fine car for a baby seat and has plenty of trunk space etc.. It's been reliable and does a decent job at being a family hauler. We are a 2 car family and generally we take the Touareg if we're going out all together because of the ease of use.

The problem I have with the S4 is that it's a bit unexciting. It's a grey torpedo, fast, quiet, understeering.

[370Z]

My daily driver is a 2013 S4 with a car seat in the back. The S4 is a fine car for a baby seat and has plenty of trunk space etc.. It's been reliable and does a decent job at being a family hauler. We are a 2 car family and generally we take the Touareg if we're going out all together because of the ease of use.

The problem I have with the S4 is that it's a bit unexciting. It's a grey torpedo, fast, quiet, understeering.

That's kind of what I was getting at... there is no such thing as a family hauler than is truly exciting lol but hey, that's the sacrifice you make for procreating right?

[taemo]

you're wife is awesome, I had to trade our 5spd civic for an auto as my wife felt more confident driving one with our baby.

if you want something cheap and that doesnt consume too much gas then avoid wrx or vehicle that uses premium gas.

we have a 2009 wrx265 with 160k on it now and never had any issues with it, our next vehicle of choice now though would be a Forester.

[JustinL]

That's kind of what I was getting at... there is no such thing as a family hauler than is truly exciting lol but hey, that's the sacrifice you make for procreating right?

Yeah, I'm lucky enough to have space for old Porsche 944's that do actually excite me.

[90_Shelby]

That's kind of what I was getting at... there is no such thing as a family hauler than is truly exciting lol but hey, that's the sacrifice you make for procreating right?

I'll challenge that statement. After our first kid the wife drove the wagon full time for 7 months. Currently, the Trackhawk does full time daily driving and hauling the kids around. They're both a riot to drive.
86727

[rage2]

You don't have to buy a boring car just because it's going to carry a kid - just save your fun for when you aren't carrying the kid. There are tons of very practical cars that are also a lot of fun to drive.
This x 1000000. My kids came home from the hospital in the back of a C63 Black Series and Lexus RC-F. Life isn't over just because you have kids. Well, not fully over. :devil:

86728

86729


I'll challenge that statement. After our first kid the wife drove the wagon full time for 7 months. Currently, the Trackhawk does full time daily driving and hauling the kids around. They're both a riot to drive.
86727
:werd:

[bcylau]

hahaha, thanks for the suggestions.

I am already moving out of a downtown condo and looking for house. We are trying not to change too much too fast, while that still might happen but lets have that happen more progressively and not all at once.

Figure this topic might resonant with some of you.


My wife and I are both around 5'9" so any car will fit us just fine. Plus we are driving the fiat abarth, so anything else will be bigger.

Thought the golf r would get more votes, but it seems like some version of subaru or an audi. I would love to get an suv or something, but the wife really wants the manual so there really isnt anything on the market right now.

[dirtsniffer]

https://www.autotrader.ca/ico/bmw/3%20series/calgary/alberta/19_11145271_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=3_12_12&pc=T2X%200K8&sprx=100

[rage2]

Thought the golf r would get more votes, but it seems like some version of subaru or an audi. I would love to get an suv or something, but the wife really wants the manual so there really isnt anything on the market right now.
I'll give you a vote for Golf R. I really like the car, great value prop, good performance.

[nickyh]

If you are 5'9 the R might be a bit tight depending on the car seat placement. I'm 5'6, so here were my findings car shopping.

I had a 2012 GTI and had the rear facing bucket seat behind me, there was no room to move the back seat one inch once it was in there (yes I could have placed it in the middle or behind the passenger but that's my choice). When i upgraded to the RS3 i could not fit the car seat rear facing behind me unless the driving position was too close to the steering wheel so it went behind the passenger seat, once I turned it around (Convertible now) forward facing my daughter is back behind me again.
I did cross shop before i decided on the RS3 with the S3 and the R, i would have picked the S3 over the R - the R is tight for space. Trunk space is tiny and my stroller would not fit, the car seat fit - but barely. The S3 had a bigger cabin and i could stuff the stroller in the trunk along with some of the other crap i took with. I could even move my seat back in the S3 a little before it touched the car seat.

My husband drives a WRX, room up the wazoo for everything. It's not as refined as the Golf but it's not a bad runner up.

Go shopping with the must haves for the child, car seat, stroller and heck, even a play pen if you can. This is the reality of life with a kid and you need to be able to haul it around.

[rage2]

If you are 5'9 the R might be a bit tight depending on the car seat placement. I'm 5'6, so here were my findings car shopping.

I had a 2012 GTI and had the rear facing bucket seat behind me, there was no room to move the back seat one inch once it was in there (yes I could have placed it in the middle or behind the passenger but that's my choice). When i upgraded to the RS3 i could not fit the car seat rear facing behind me unless the driving position was too close to the steering wheel so it went behind the passenger seat, once I turned it around (Convertible now) forward facing my daughter is back behind me again.
I did cross shop before i decided on the RS3 with the S3 and the R, i would have picked the S3 over the R - the R is tight for space. Trunk space is tiny and my stroller would not fit, the car seat fit - but barely. The S3 had a bigger cabin and i could stuff the stroller in the trunk along with some of the other crap i took with. I could even move my seat back in the S3 a little before it touched the car seat.

My husband drives a WRX, room up the wazoo for everything. It's not as refined as the Golf but it's not a bad runner up.

Go shopping with the must haves for the child, car seat, stroller and heck, even a play pen if you can. This is the reality of life with a kid and you need to be able to haul it around.
The key is to shop for a car first, then shop for a car seat after. Yea, the big behemoth rear facing seats that convert into SUV sized strollers probably won't fit in smaller cars, so buy one that works for the car. It doesn't make sense to blow stupid money on a full sized SUV just to fit a car seat.

And lol at carrying a play pen with you.

[danno]

Ya the bucket car seats are actually pretty small, once you get into the car seats for a 1 year old that’s what you should base the sizing on.

I loved the golf r, but hated the manual transmission. Horrible feel from the clutch, I might still have it if I had got the dsg. I’ll vote s4, I’m on my second rs4 and have put minimal money into repairs or maintance.

[nickyh]

The key is to shop for a car first, then shop for a car seat after. Yea, the big behemoth rear facing seats that convert into SUV sized strollers probably won't fit in smaller cars, so buy one that works for the car. It doesn't make sense to blow stupid money on a full sized SUV just to fit a car seat.

And lol at carrying a play pen with you.

Life doesn't always work in that order. I bought the convertible to fit my golf; was not about to buy a new seat to fit the new car - but not all parents rear faced as long as I did either.
Yeah - you should have seen the sales guy face when i rolled up with all the things to test fit, realized the sale wasn't going to happen pretty quickly.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Life doesn't always work in that order. I bought the convertible to fit my golf; was not about to buy a new seat to fit the new car - but not all parents rear faced as long as I did either.
Yeah - you should have seen the sales guy face when i rolled up with all the things to test fit, realized the sale wasn't going to happen pretty quickly.

Almost every salesperson I have ever dealt with has had that same look of disbelief / disappointment on their face when they realize you don't want to spend $30, $40, $50k++ on a whim and might actually want to shop around a major purchase. They rattle off a mixture of complete BS and try to answer your questions by furiously flipping through the brochure they are still holding and then ask you if you want to go talk numbers :rofl:

[finboy]

My gf does a lot of dog agility with our two dogs, it was essential to fit two large kennels in the back of whatever vehicle we bought. We watched salesmen destroy the interior plastics of cars trying to fit those kennels in there, and looked choked when they wouldn’t fit.


Almost every salesperson I have ever dealt with has had that same look of disbelief / disappointment on their face when they realize you don't want to spend $30, $40, $50k++ on a whim and might actually want to shop around a major purchase. They rattle off a mixture of complete BS and try to answer your questions by furiously flipping through the brochure they are still holding and then ask you if you want to go talk numbers :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

My gf does a lot of dog agility with our two dogs, it was essential to fit two large kennels in the back of whatever vehicle we bought. We watched salesmen destroy the interior plastics of cars trying to fit those kennels in there, and looked choked when they wouldn’t fit.

Haha, anything for that sweet sweet commission.

Also the reason why I never have and never will buy a new car that has ever been test driven or sat in a show room. They get abused day in and day out. Some of the things I have seen salespeople do (or encourage me to do) to the cars on test drives...you don't want to own one of those haha. And they weren't demos.

[rage2]

Haha, anything for that sweet sweet commission.

Also the reason why I never have and never will buy a new car that has ever been test driven or sat in a show room. They get abused day in and day out. Some of the things I have seen salespeople do (or encourage me to do) to the cars on test drives...you don't want to own one of those haha. And they weren't demos.
What, you mean a proper break in? :rofl:

I have no problems buying demos. If I had the chance to do it (something spec’d exactly how I wanted it) I would do it 10 times out of 10.

[ExtraSlow]

Brought my car seats to the test drive of my odyssey. Zero issues. :devil:

[Darell_n]

Haha, anything for that sweet sweet commission.

Also the reason why I never have and never will buy a new car that has ever been test driven or sat in a show room. They get abused day in and day out. Some of the things I have seen salespeople do (or encourage me to do) to the cars on test drives...you don't want to own one of those haha. And they weren't demos.

They probably turn out to be the best performing and longest lasting vehicles. Proper engine break-in is maximum power regularly after one warmup and cool down.

[dirtsniffer]

86753

I see this one around once in a while. I like the color

[Mitsu3000gt]

What, you mean a proper break in? :rofl:

I have no problems buying demos. If I had the chance to do it (something spec’d exactly how I wanted it) I would do it 10 times out of 10.


They probably turn out to be the best performing and longest lasting vehicles. Proper engine break-in is maximum power regularly after one warmup and cool down.

I'm not talking about a few spirited drives. I'm all for the hard break-in, as long as I'm the one doing it :) But there's a big difference between that and what I have seen so many times on test drives and in the show room, I want nothing to do with those cars haha. Abusing the transmission, launches, and bouncing off the rev limiter for extended periods of time with a cold engine in -20 weather, and smoking pot holes for example is not part of a proper break-in.

I'd lease a demo if the price was right - would never buy one though.

[bjstare]

I'll give you a vote for Golf R. I really like the car, great value prop, good performance.

Golf R vs used GLA45? One kid, few months from flipping her to front facing. Wife is usually in passenger seat and she's puny.

[rage2]

Golf R vs used GLA45? One kid, few months from flipping her to front facing. Wife is usually in passenger seat and she's puny.
This is the manual transmission thread haha.

[bjstare]

This is the manual transmission thread haha.

Since when did you become a stickler for thread topics?

[rage2]

Since when did you become a stickler for thread topics?
That's it, banned!

[lee88]

Audi RS4 ��

[cloud7]

I bought a 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD with a 6-speed manual transmission just before we had our daughter. It has served us well. The wife drives it now. It has decent space in the back for baby seats. Adequate power coming from the 3.7L V6 as well. Handling is ok for such a heavy car... a lot better than what I am driving now.

It might be tough to find one in the used car market though.

[CLiVE]

But I think STI seems like the most interesting car as a baby hauler.



I remember a thread here a while back that someone was selling their STI due to the harsh suspension bouncing their newborn's head around....


As for the Golf discussion. I had a Golf TDI at one point. Worked fine for kids/stroller. Even our MINI Cooper S was fine - until one day I nearly got rear-ended and decided I wanted more of a crumple zone in front of my kids. F150 does the family hauling now, and I have other fun cars I rarely drive....lol

[C4S]

How about Focus RS ?

That is a sweet car ! It is as much fun as a manual 991! I tell you the focus RS is that great!!

Good power, great sound, great seat, (I don't know why people complain about it, may be they are all over 200lb) , great looking. (IMO, best looking within Civic R, Golf R, Sti, EVO, i30N etc)


Bottom line is .. it is a FORD, and it has head gasket issue ...

RS is still ~$35K-40K used, but consider new is $60K, that is good value, some higher km 2016 model are at the low $30K, winter wheel and tire are included, that is $2K saving anyway.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[C4S]

Not for North America anyway ...

:banghead::banghead::zzz:

[schocker]

86753

I see this one around once in a while. I like the color
Heresy, that one is a DSG! :rofl:

[bjstare]

Ya, cmon guys. Stay on topic here. Might get rage2 blood pressure up.

[ExtremeSi]

I had a B7 A4 2.0T and it was super reliable. Car seat fits nicely in the back and stroller in the trunk. Smooth and quiet when you want and also fun, especially with a tune. Now I have a B7 S4 and it's been great so far too. Wife also drives an A4. I don't find them to be any worse maintenance wise than any of the Japanese cars I've owned in the past.

[NWNHT]

Not a popular opinion, but if you are ok with Right Hand Drive, the Nissan Stagea is fantastic. Loads of space, comes with a manual transmission, and with a little wiring wizardry (or by pulling the fuse) you can have a rear wheel OR all wheel car. No kids of my own but I babysit my many cousins, and I have ever had an issue with space! also, the car is wicked fun to drive. Easy passing on the highway, and you can easily give the car more power if you wanted to.
$10,000-$12,000 for the car from a decent importer, then spend a little on an engine refresh (if you want to), and you have a fun family hauler! also, mine has two sunroofs, and the kids in the back love having the sunroof above them.

[arcticcat522]

Did you end up finding something?

[bcylau]

The vehicle I am replacing: 2012 Fiat Abarth

tldr: 2014 Audi A4 quattro - ibis white

Update:

The test drives, I ended testing almost everything that has a manual and awd. Subaru wrx and sti, jeep wrangler, audi a4/ s4, golf R. Plus another ones like hrv, crv, x2, gla. Both the wife and I didnt like the autos/ dsg. Faster and smoother but way more disconnected. Seems like new cars are more "digital" if that makes any sense.

Golf R - great car, drives exactly like fiat abarth with more power and a smoother clutch. I went drove a mk6 golf R and mk7 back to back, driving wise I think the mk6 might be a bit tighter. Mk7 seems more comfortable. With the exception of the R to 1st vs 5th to R placement of the gear, there isnt that much difference between the golf R and abarth. Good stereo, easy to fold down seats, good space for 5'9 people.

Known problems - follower cam, haldex weak on earlier models, vw 2.0T problems(oil) . Digital ebrake.
depreciation - budgeting about 2.5k to 3.5k per year

WRX/ STI - Surprisingly, extremely difficult to find a new manual wrx to test, but all the dealers are overstocked on manual sti's. go figure. The handling of the sti is slightly tighter than the golf R and abarth, but far less damped over bumps. Feels like it likes to rev higher and tougher to drive on the lower end. Driven 2009 to 2019 cars, all of them nearly the same feeling. The interiors are updated quite a bit, but driving wise feels unchange for 10 years (the wife thinks its the same). Both good and bad I suppose. It is a really good car. But things like fold down seats are just a little tougher to fold and the seat belts get tangled just a bit more. Plus, I dont want a giant wing, so it was tough to find a unmolested sti without a wing and the owner is pricing it as new. Also, many "tuned" wrx or sti, where the owners think a random tune makes the vehicle more valuable, makes it impossible to negotiate. Tuned vehicles are also the ones where the head gasket will likely go first.

Know problems - head gasket( you have 2! of them) - seems like sti engines are better built than the rest(wrx or na).
depreciation - budgeting about 1.5k to 2.5k per year (after do some regressions, wrx and sti depreciate the same, so if someone is looking just get the sti. higher cost but higher resale)

Audi A4/S4 - Most planted and least nimble of them all. A4 and S4 feels relatively the same normal speeds, but at stops, S4 is way smoother due to more to the V6. The worst shifter position out of all the cars. Best interior and things like the fold down seats are the easiest to operate. Probably has the steepest depreciate curve. 50k new to about 10k for a 10year old example. Best crash rating of all the vehicles.


Know problems - oil comsumption, ringland failure, standard vw 2.0T problems. DSG in certain years also has problems ,but I am looking at manuals. Year 2013+ A4 and year 2012+ S4 have less problems . Digital ebrake.
depreciation - budgeting 3 to 4k per year


Focus RS- hardest to find. Probably the best driving out of all the cars tested. Manual box feels a little fiesta st like, not quite smooth enough and not quite notchy enough. Rarest one also means the most difficult to source parts, expecting audi like maintenance. hatchback is a big plus. Interior just seems like a focus, nothing really stood out during the time I tested. It is like a more responsive STI.

Know problems - unknown due to low samples
depreciation - budgeting 2 to 3k per year due to rarity, there is a chance of appreciation for this car


Abarth - Drives great with amazing turn in. Really, really nimble. The best exhaust out of the bunch. Best for downtown parking, 25% off street parking. Almost always there is someone that cant parallel and the fiat just slips in. 30L for 600km+. Best steering wheel by far, it is on par to vehicles at the M3, rs4, rs3 level. I dont want to sell it, but probably will. The shifter is at a strangle van-like position. Fairly high-end appointments for a low cost car, cheap plastic on dash and doors. Great leather seats.


And we ended up with, just a week ago: 2014 Audi A4 quattro - ibis white at 62k. for $20k . I am anticipating a resale of about $10k in Year 2024 for a depreciation of $2k a year. I am on a higher maintenance curve but lower depreciation curve, might work out ok. Now have to look at a new mechanic. Going to clay the bar and wax, then I will post some pictures.

[Mitsu3000gt]

And we ended up with, just a week ago: 2014 Audi A4 quattro - ibis white at 62k. for $20k . I am anticipating a resale of about $10k in Year 2024 for a depreciation of $2k a year. I am on a higher maintenance curve but lower depreciation curve, might work out ok. Now have to look at a new mechanic. Going to clay the bar and wax, then I will post some pictures.

Great choice. The A4 is IMHO easily one of the best all-round sedans out there right now.

Tune Dub is your one stop shop for Audi/VW maintenance.

[arcticcat522]

Good choice man. You will love the car, I'm sure. From what you where considering, I think this was a no brainer decision.

[freshprince1]

Nice to see a thread go from birth to death with the appropriate steps and full closure! Nice choice. Reading through it, I was excited to pitch in a suggest the Subaru Legacy GT. I had one for 5 years and it was awesome, handle 2 car sets for us, and was a blast to drive (although mine had a lot of add-ons ;) ). The down side is they only made the GT up until 2012 (with turbo and manual), so it would have been an older model. Congrats!