Official C8 Corvette Thread

[A790]

https://www.corvsport.com/you-can-watch-todays-c8-corvette-reveal-here/

We have the livestream going on but you can also check it directly on the Chev site :)

[corsvette]

Been so many spy shots and news leaks I'm hardly even excited anymore lol. It'll be a neat car, but I'll miss that long hood/short deck profile.

[BavarianBeast]

Watch it be front engine

[Sugarphreak]

...

[cam_wmh]

Check out all the buttons on the right lol.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--GXZp67bO--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/pd99yyjqyqbkgm3qpy18.jpg

[Tik-Tok]

I've been trying to avoid spy shots, I am kind of excited for it

I mean I will Never ever own another GM again, but still excited to see it

Liar. You'll buy the H4

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Darkane]

500hp NA, 3300lbs, 90k CDN.

Wishlist, it’ll have my attention.

[speedog]

Leaked photo, this is a great shot, lotsa hints of past Corvettes in this new one...

86841

- - - Updated - - -

More leaked pics...

86844

86843

[heavyD]

Check out all the buttons on the right lol.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--GXZp67bO--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/pd99yyjqyqbkgm3qpy18.jpg

That's just poor design. That is maybe the worst button placement I have ever seen. I would love to hear why they think that's a good idea.

[Tik-Tok]

That's just poor design. That is maybe the worst button placement I have ever seen. I would love to hear why they think that's a good idea.

More "cockpit" like.

[ThePenIsMightier]

https://i1.wp.com/www.society19.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/expectations.gif

[Darkane]

Leak reported:

495/470
8sp dct
0-60 <3
Mid 70s USD
Z51 performance pack optional.

[Darkane]

Sassy black chick. Lol

[dirtsniffer]

Dry sump is standard. Legit.

[spikerS]

Just announced that it will start at under $60k USD

[NoSup4U]

Just announced that it will start at under $60k USD

Chevy possibly just dropped the mic with this car.

Gorgeous looks/ performance/ price........Let's just hope it holds up once it gets out in the real world reviews.

[370Z]

I'm in love.

[corsvette]

Holy sh!t, I did not expect the $60K USD starting price, its not far off C7 starting price. Wow, this thing is impressive!

[Buster]

Fantastic.

I don't think this has a competitor in the market.

[Darkane]

Very possibly my next car. At that price?! Shit.

[corsvette]

Have fun!
https://visualizer-west.chevrolet.com/ui?carline=corvette&modelyear=2020&brand=chevrolet&language=en&country=US&channel=b2c

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

500hp, DCT, mid engine, under $70k to start. That’s pretty fucking appealing. The front suspension lift with gps memory is just genius. One of those “wouldn’t it be cool” things I’ve thought about but never thought would be implemented.

[Buster]

Actually buying vettes at launch is annoying. Hard to get, with a big markup, for a car that is designed to be high volume and easy to buy within a year.

[Xtrema]

Well now who would buy a Supra at all if this beast starts at $70k.

[ExtraSlow]

Be interesting to see how many they can get into showrooms. Should sell if they can supply.

[4WARNED]

Specs will certainly have everyone's attention, but i can't past the fact it looks like a 2004 Ferrari F430 in most profiles. Certainly not original......

[KRyn]

.

[bjstare]

This is great. First Corvette I could actually see myself behind the wheel (before the age of 60 when I have gold rings and a chain poking through my unbuttoned shirt).



I don't think this has a competitor in the market.

:werd:

[BavarianBeast]

Your going to be able to get like $40k off an 2018/19 z06 now. You could get $25k off last week.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

A lot of haters, a lot of lovers. I really like the engineering aspects behind it, the ties to Zora and test vehicles, the fact they did try to keep the price down is also attractive. I hate the full rear view personally and wish that manual was at least an option but understand why it isn’t.

[Darkane]

I don’t really have anything negative to say about the car.

More power is nice, but it’s a small block and 500whp with easy bolt ons, and big power with cam and heads.

[Buster]

Your going to be able to get like $40k off an 2018/19 z06 now. You could get $25k off last week.

This is complicating my McLaren shopping.

- - - Updated - - -


A lot of haters, a lot of lovers. I really like the engineering aspects behind it, the ties to Zora and test vehicles, the fact they did try to keep the price down is also attractive. I hate the full rear view personally and wish that manual was at least an option but understand why it isn’t.

The rear-view is the weakest link on the design for sure. It also was for the C7, which was the same designer.

[BavarianBeast]

This is complicating my McLaren shopping.

Let me know if you need a hand, I’ve greased just about every dealer in Alberta

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mitsu3000gt]

Decent styling and a DCT, good job Chevy.

Only thing I don't like is that horrible looking infotainment screen that looks like someone hot-glued it on there.

Sure wouldn't want to be the guy who owns a 2018-19 vette.

Only problem is you will probably see these everywhere haha.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

No manual is a huge drawback

I also wonder if they truly have been able to quash the overheating gremlins of the past; they have 25% more cooling, but the engine is in the back now... definitely something you wouldn't want to rush into buying just yet.

I do like the removable Targra-style roof, that is a really nice feature

The cooling problems seem to mostly affect FI models, being NA I should hope this is worked out.

[Buster]

Decent styling and a DCT, good job Chevy.

Only thing I don't like is that horrible looking infotainment screen that looks like someone hot-glued it on there.

Sure wouldn't want to be the guy who owns a 2018-19 vette.

Only problem is you will probably see these everywhere haha.

you can have cheap or you can have exclusive. you cant have both.

- - - Updated - - -


Let me know if you need a hand, I’ve greased just about every dealer in Alberta

I know a pretty big Chevy dealer personally...so no issues there. Thanks tho.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mitsu3000gt]

This kind of feels like the C7 launch all over again, haha

I remember InRich had just bought a 100K C6 Z06.... and I am sure it devalued to less than a Toyota Camry within a month of the C7 launch because the base model specs crushed it so badly.

I also remember that people who bought in right away kind of got screwed too because each subsequent performance package (released seemingly every few months) that came out was incredible.


"I've finally got it.... the most amazing Corvette ever"... 2 months later "Awwwwww"

If I recall that thread correctly, everyone told him not to buy that car haha.

Buying any end of life car at a high price is dumb IMHO - you know something better is coming very soon.

[googe]

Seems weak compared to the GT500 and the Hellcat.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I hope C6 ZR-1 pricing starts to come down slightly now because that’s my true dream Corvette.

[dirtsniffer]

Seems weak compared to the GT500 and the Hellcat.

I think the gt500 is $110,00? And the Hellcat is a 20 year old mercedes sedan right?

[msommers]

Chevy DEFINITELY just dropped the mic with this car.

Agreed now!

Most corvettes, aside from classics like the C1/C2, make me go 'meh'

But this thing is freakin' gorgeous

[KRyn]

.

[Buster]

Seems weak compared to the GT500 and the Hellcat.

Do people actually drive Hellcats without it being some sort of ironic statement?

[you&me]

If I recall that thread correctly, everyone told him not to buy that car haha.

Buying any end of life car at a high price is dumb IMHO - you know something better is coming very soon.


The closest parallel I can think of in terms of ownership groups to the Corvette would be the 911 guys... Every time a new 911 is unveiled there are cries from traditionalists lamenting the new model. The biggest change in the history of the 911 was going from air-cooled to water-cooled in the 993 > 996 cars and look at the prices of most 993s compared to most 996s... I wonder if some of the Corvette guys will lament the loss of tradition and clamour for C7s as the best / last ha-rah for the front engine cars? The older customer base of Corvette isn't usually the type to embrace change :rofl:

Now, that's not to say they're going to have any problems selling the C8, especially at that price point... It will definitely introduce some new buyers to Corvette that very likely never would have considered one in the past... Just look at the replies in this thread!

[Mitsu3000gt]

The closest parallel I can think of in terms of ownership groups to the Corvette would be the 911 guys... Every time a new 911 is unveiled there are cries from traditionalists lamenting the new model. The biggest change in the history of the 911 was going from air-cooled to water-cooled in the 993 > 996 cars and look at the prices of most 993s compared to most 996s... I wonder if some of the Corvette guys will lament the loss of tradition and clamour for C7s as the best / last ha-rah for the front engine cars? The older customer base of Corvette isn't usually the type to embrace change :rofl:

Now, that's not to say they're going to have any problems selling the C8, especially at that price point... It will definitely introduce some new buyers to Corvette that very likely never would have considered one in the past... Just look at the replies in this thread!

An exotic looking car with performance to match will sell well under $100K no doubt. Used market will be even jucier in a few years pending any reliability issues.

As for Porsche, after they turbo'd the base 911, I wouldn't want to have just bought a previous version - similar level of change compared to the 993 --> 996 IMHO, where the outgoing variant becomes instantly undesirable. But like you say, some of those air colled Porsches are crazy valuable so who knows haha.

[Buster]

The closest parallel I can think of in terms of ownership groups to the Corvette would be the 911 guys... Every time a new 911 is unveiled there are cries from traditionalists lamenting the new model. The biggest change in the history of the 911 was going from air-cooled to water-cooled in the 993 > 996 cars and look at the prices of most 993s compared to most 996s... I wonder if some of the Corvette guys will lament the loss of tradition and clamour for C7s as the best / last ha-rah for the front engine cars? The older customer base of Corvette isn't usually the type to embrace change :rofl:

Now, that's not to say they're going to have any problems selling the C8, especially at that price point... It will definitely introduce some new buyers to Corvette that very likely never would have considered one in the past... Just look at the replies in this thread!

I don't actually think the Corvette has traditional ownership groups (or at least its not as significant as you might think). I think it's mostly post-middle-age bald men, who want to cash in some of their retirement savings on a last hurrah. And the corvette hits a price point. It makes those guys feel special, but doesn't crack the big-ticket purchase price. GM can just sell Camaros to those guys.

[rage2]

An exotic looking car with performance to match will sell well under $100K no doubt. Used market will be even jucier in a few years pending any reliability issues.
Reliability will be a big concern. There's a lot of new tech under the hood on the electronics side. The entire car uses a new electronics architecture built from scratch, OTA updates and what not. They had a bunch of problems during testing. I just don't trust GM there yet.

[Ukyo8]

At my store the waiting list is already 7 deep, most other stores are about the same.
It'll be hard to get the first year or two.

[rage2]

At my store the waiting list is already 7 deep, most other stores are about the same.
It'll be hard to get the first year or two.
2 years delivery wait for a base model? I figured they'd be cranking these things out at a huge pace and printing money at this price point.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Reliability will be a big concern. There's a lot of new tech under the hood on the electronics side. The entire car uses a new electronics architecture built from scratch, OTA updates and what not. They had a bunch of problems during testing. I just don't trust GM there yet.

My thoughts exactly. New everything + DCT + GM/Chevy = Not a car you probably want in the first year of production, and probably not even the year after that. Any all-new car in the first year I don't think I would want.

Careful though, say anything remotely negative about an domestic car and out come the pitchforks :rofl:

[Darkane]

The build site is laggy and buggy still, but you can get a good idea.

Seems to me optioning another 30k is eeeaaasssy.

This 60k car will turn into a 90k In no time.

The value here is: base LT, Z51 with the high wing option (GT4 style).

Looks beast, and you can body colour the side blades. I’d get into that for 80 cdn.

Guessing the Z51 pack will be 7k cdn. Starting price of 71-73k. Sign me up.

Or a base Cayman or supra. Lol.

[schocker]

I was definitely expecting a big bump in price, but it is only up around $3k usd. They do have a ton of customization options now with different materials and whatnot now. Will be interesting to see how crazy they go with the Z06 and ZR1. This is going to make the value proposition of the NSX very poor now no?

[googe]

Can't tell if trolling or serious...

:dunno:

Not trolling.

70k USD for the upcoming GT500, 760HP, 625 tq, runs the 1/4 mile in the 10s.
60k USD for the C8, making 495HP, 465 tq.
67k for the Hellcat, making 707HP
62k for the camaro ZL1, making 650/650.

It’s a nice car, but I thought they would lay down bigger numbers on their flagship vehicle. It is only a modest bump over the C7, and a heavier car.

Supposedly they will introduce an 800HP TT model later, but that will probably be like 140k USD.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Ukyo8]

Not trolling.

70k USD for the upcoming GT500, 760HP, 625 tq, runs the 1/4 mile in the 10s.
60k USD for the C8, making 495HP, 465 tq.
67k for the Hellcat, making 707HP
62k for the camaro ZL1, making 650/650.

It’s a nice car, but I thought they would lay down bigger numbers on their flagship vehicle. It is only a modest bump over the C7, and a heavier car.

Supposedly they will introduce an 800HP TT model later, but that will probably be like 140k USD.


Info came out C8 starting at only 70K Canadian

- - - Updated - - -


2 years delivery wait for a base model? I figured they'd be cranking these things out at a huge pace and printing money at this price point.

I believe production will be the highest it's ever been, but this being a global launch means the demand will be much higher, the car will be sold in RHD markets as well.

[ercchry]

Well... this might be in the running for M3 replacement next year... hopefully they are well stocked and selling for msrp by then!

[88CRX]

I was definitely expecting a big bump in price, but it is only up around $3k usd. They do have a ton of customization options now with different materials and whatnot now. Will be interesting to see how crazy they go with the Z06 and ZR1. This is going to make the value proposition of the NSX very poor now no?

The NSX never really had great 'value' though :dunno:

But yea this probably makes the NSX value look even worse then it already was. Although the NSX isn't going to breakdown constantly, will the new Vette be remotely reliable?

[Buster]

Not trolling.

70k USD for the upcoming GT500, 760HP, 625 tq, runs the 1/4 mile in the 10s.
60k USD for the C8, making 495HP, 465 tq.
67k for the Hellcat, making 707HP
62k for the camaro ZL1, making 650/650.

It’s a nice car, but I thought they would lay down bigger numbers on their flagship vehicle. It is only a modest bump over the C7, and a heavier car.

Supposedly they will introduce an 800HP TT model later, but that will probably be like 140k USD.

Power without sophistication is less valuable to many people who can afford the $100k OTD on one of these.

[Darkane]

Not trolling.

70k USD for the upcoming GT500, 760HP, 625 tq, runs the 1/4 mile in the 10s.
60k USD for the C8, making 495HP, 465 tq.
67k for the Hellcat, making 707HP
62k for the camaro ZL1, making 650/650.

It’s a nice car, but I thought they would lay down bigger numbers on their flagship vehicle. It is only a modest bump over the C7, and a heavier car.

Supposedly they will introduce an 800HP TT model later, but that will probably be like 140k USD.

Remember, 495hp with a dct. It’ll put more to the wheels than just 35hp increase.

I’m betting 50whp more than the auto. It’ll be a huge difference

[heavyD]

Fantastic.

I don't think this has a competitor in the market.

If Honda wasn't a bunch of morons the NSX would have been in this ballpark. I don't think they could ever go head to head with GM for this entry level price point but it should have been in the $70-75k US range as they would have sold every one and wouldn't have to heavily discount them as they are with the current car where in the US you get $20k off even before negotiations.

[corsvette]

The NSX never really had great 'value' though :dunno:

But yea this probably makes the NSX value look even worse then it already was. Although the NSX isn't going to breakdown constantly, will the new Vette be remotely reliable?

Modern Corvettes are very reliable, build quality on the c4-c5-c6 wasn't the best (downright lousy in the 4's and 5's) but the mechanicals are stout.

[benyl]

Modern Corvettes are very reliable, build quality on the c4-c5-c6 wasn't the best (downright lousy in the 4's and 5's) but the mechanicals are stout.

Not according to Mitsu3000gt. All domestics are shit.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[corsvette]

I thought the C7 was constantly having mechanical issues along with overheating problems.

GM never posted an official Nuremberg time despite repeated attempts because of issues everytime they went out.

Early C7 Z06's had heating issues and heat soak, all have been fixed/figured out now as far as I know. These heating issues in the high performance models of the C7 were one of the huge reasons the C8 was to be mid engined. Think Car & Driver had their early C7 engine pop, this was the well known issue of metal burrs present in the AcDelco oil filters. I'm not nowhere near as involved in the Vette community as I used to be, still haven't heard/read of any major issues recently.

I'm hoping they got all the bugs worked out of the C8. They had issues with the all new wiring and other electronic problems quite recently that pushed back the intro. I have a feeling a Hybrid type powertrain is well into development and the cause of some of the issues they've been having.

[Ukyo8]

I thought the C7 was constantly having mechanical issues along with overheating problems.

GM never posted an official Nürburgring time despite repeated attempts because of issues everytime they went out.

Only the supercharged Corvette had overheating issues.
Ran a 7:13.90 at the Nurburgring, which is amazingly only 0.9 sec slower than the Porsche 918

Modern Corvettes are very reliable in the grand scheme of things, especially when compared to the vehicles it competes with performance wise.
Not to mention the dirt cheap maintenance costs as compared to anything more exotic.

[ercchry]

Looks like an old 430, costs less than the same old 430 (on the used market) but is brand new... mechanical can be serviced by any donkey being a friggin small block Chevy. An everyday exotic, priced for the everyday enthusiast. Hard to find a reason to complain... well besides that weird ass interior layout

[A790]

Looks like an old 430, costs less than the same old 430 (on the used market) but is brand new... mechanical can be serviced by any donkey being a friggin small block Chevy. An everyday exotic, priced for the everyday enthusiast. Hard to find a reason to complain... well besides that weird ass interior layout

Yea. I'm super impressed with this car.

[rage2]

Yea. I'm super impressed with this car.
More so than the Lotus? :rofl:

[killramos]

2 years delivery wait for a base model? I figured they'd be cranking these things out at a huge pace and printing money at this price point.

They will be cranking them out of Mexico at fast pace for sure.

I might even consider one.

[ExtraSlow]

Wait until shakalaka is selling his.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Wait until shakalaka is selling his.

Big F

[killramos]

Wait until shakalaka is selling his.

Listen man, I really can’t give you more rep anymore...

[Gman.45]

This will be our next car even if I have to wait until 2021 for them to become available. My missus and I both tend to only keep cars/trucks for a few years before wanting to try something new or different, and next year or 2021 will be 2 or 3 years that we'll have had our LC500, so probably will sell that to get one of these.

80$k CAD probably (hopefully anyway) for the Z51 package which is pretty much a "must have" for the Stingray model IMO. That's before dealer markup, but I hope GM realizes that the 40,000 they plan on selling in 2020 may be underestimating the market a tad. Perhaps that can mitigate stupid dealer markups and allocations, they have an opportunity probably to sell a lot of these things.What a great car, even without seeing it in person or driving it, the looks and statistics alone are unreal. So much for the Supra, I was seriously considering that as an option, but no longer, it's not even close. I had a Fiero GT V6 back in the early 90s, my aunt still drives it in fact, and I've always, always wanted another mid engine. Never thought it'd be a Corvette, nor as relatively inexpensive and putting you into supercar territory in terms of the performance. Can you imagine what the Z06 and eventual Zr1 variant of this car is going to be like?

Jay Leno did an 8 min video on YT today with one, seeing how easy it was for him to get into it is a real plus too for taller or body builder/powerlifter type bodies, which makes getting in and out of mid engine Ferrari and a couple McLarens I've jumped into something that would become a real PITA with a long term car. The squared off wheel helps with that too by the looks of it. I've not been so impressed with an initial unveiling ever.

[Tik-Tok]

I hope GM realizes that the 40,000 they plan on selling in 2020 may be underestimating the market a tad.

They aren't underestimating anything, they're creating an artificial demand so dealers can inflate the prices 30+%

Chevrolet - "MSRP of ONLY $70g CAD!!!"

Dealerships - "Yeah, no, $100g please, non-refundable deposit, and you have to be on the waitlist for 2 years."

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Meh what Chevy dealer in the country can’t you walk into and see a half dozen corvettes sitting in the showroom and another dozen out back.

If you want one, you will be able to get one.

[Buster]

GM has never tried to make the Corvette exclusive. They are adding shifts in Kentucky to ramp production as much as possible to meet demand. They want you to be able to walk into a dealer and buy one. Might take a few months.

[90_Shelby]

Good article on Jalopnik regarding the mechanical bits of the car.
I'm still surprised that they finally made the Corvette mid-engine but it looks like they have a winner with this car.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-detailed-look-at-the-2020-corvette-c8s-impressi-1836540969

[ercchry]

Good article on Jalopnik regarding the mechanical bits of the car.
I'm still surprised that they finally made the Corvette mid-engine but it looks like they have a winner with this car.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-detailed-look-at-the-2020-corvette-c8s-impressi-1836540969

Omg... clutch kicks!!!


That seems like a tall order, since there’s no clutch pedal, but there are paddle shifters, and there is a “double paddle de-clutch feature,” which Chevy says “allows the driver to disconnect the clutch by holding both paddles for more manual control.”

[BavarianBeast]

Def going to be a sick car but everyone is going to have one haha. Not that it’s a bad thing, but they’re sure not going to be a head turner after the first year of them on the streets.

[Ukyo8]

They aren't underestimating anything, they're creating an artificial demand so dealers can inflate the prices 30+%

Chevrolet - "MSRP of ONLY $70g CAD!!!"

Dealerships - "Yeah, no, $100g please, non-refundable deposit, and you have to be on the waitlist for 2 years."

Any dealer that would do that is obviously not someone you'd want to deal with.
We are selling all of our C8's at MSRP.

We had a customer offer us 100K today to jump the line and we turned him down.

[shakalaka]

Wait until shakalaka is selling his.

Haha. I've never been into Vette's personally. That's why I wasn't even checking out this thread until the tag, lol. This one does look tempting though. I guess never say never, but I doubt it.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I like it.

[KRyn]

.

[Gman.45]

GM has never tried to make the Corvette exclusive. They are adding shifts in Kentucky to ramp production as much as possible to meet demand. They want you to be able to walk into a dealer and buy one. Might take a few months.

That was what I was hoping for when I posted, and it makes solid financial sense for GM. They have a real winner on their hands by the looks of it, and what a shame it would be to not capitalize on the hype (justified IMO). As Jeremy Clarkson once said "Well done fat Bob from Kentucky".

- - - Updated - - -


Any dealer that would do that is obviously not someone you'd want to deal with.
We are selling all of our C8's at MSRP.

We had a customer offer us 100K today to jump the line and we turned him down.

Wow, integrity. What dealership are you at if you don't mind me asking (you can PM me if you don't want to say, but such a dealer is where I'd like to put my business, and I don't have a GM "guy" anymore). How are you handling the customization options regarding all the different seats/stitching/etc? I know which seat I'd prefer and the Z51 option, but other than that these are the only options that are "must haves" for me. Are you taking deposits right now as well?

[ThePenIsMightier]

Any dealer that would do that is obviously not someone you'd want to deal with.
We are selling all of our C8's at MSRP.

We had a customer offer us 100K today to jump the line and we turned him down.

When these actually hit the floor, I'm >99% confident that you will be incorrect. This is a gold mine for demand pricing and no dealership (no business of any kind really) is going to leave that money on the table.

[ExtraSlow]

70k USD for the upcoming GT500, 760HP, 625 tq, runs the 1/4 mile in the 10s.
60k USD for the C8, making 495HP, 465 tq.
67k for the Hellcat, making 707HP
62k for the camaro ZL1, making 650/650.
What a time to be alive! We have all this, plus lots of half ton trucks making more than 400 Ft-lbs of torque. It's the golden age of power, we'll be telling our grandchildren about this.

[killramos]

Agreed. This corvette is nothing short of something to celebrate, whether you want one or not.

[dirtsniffer]

Can we make this thread the official c8 corvette thread?

[Maxt]

They should have have called it fiero or corvair .

[msommers]

#NextBeyondCivic

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Tik-Tok]

We had a customer offer us 100K today to jump the line and we turned him down.

Which says to me that management is planning on selling it for more than $100g

[Ukyo8]

Which says to me that management is planning on selling it for more than $100g

Nope, it's going to a customer that had left a deposit over a year ago at MSRP

[Buster]

Any dealer that would do that is obviously not someone you'd want to deal with.
We are selling all of our C8's at MSRP.

We had a customer offer us 100K today to jump the line and we turned him down.

This makes no sense. The law of supply and demand works just as well for new cars as it does for every other thing in the universe.

[A790]

More so than the Lotus? :rofl:
At least I can afford this one lol