Furnace Issues

[bjstare]

So lately my furnace has been acting up. Specifically happens when my wife turns the temp up (e.g. hold 18*c to hold 20*c). The furnace will simply shut off. The status light (in the little peep hole) is not illuminated at all. Furnace still has power though, because the thermostat on the wall stays powered up. Thermostat is sending the heat signal correctly (can hear it click on and off when you adjust the temp).

When I cut the power to the furnace and turn it back on, either with the breaker or the local switch that's wired in, everything works normally.

For reference, furnace is a Goodman GKS90904CXAE. Installed in 2009, and sticker on the side says it got a new board and thermostat in 2015. I'm not sure specifically why this was done, we bought the house in 2016.

Happy to hear anyone's 2c that's either knowledgeable about furnaces, or has seen this before. Obviously I can just continue to power cycle it if it stops working, but that's not exactly a solution.

[Mitsu3000gt]

When our furnace was turning on and shutting off shortly after, it was the flame sensor. 10 minutes of work and some steel wool, and it has been running flawlessly for the last 2 years. I am not sure if that is what you are describing or not, as yours might sound more electrical related if you say it works normally after a hard power cycle.

[bjstare]

Yeah I don't think it's quite the same problem. It functions/cycles normally for the entire day, but sometimes will stop working specifically when the temp is turned up.
I will take a look at that though.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Yeah I don't think it's quite the same problem. It functions/cycles normally for the entire day, but sometimes will stop working specifically when the temp is turned up.
I will take a look at that though.

Ours would occasionally work too, but most often it would try to start and then shut off when presumably it did not detect a flame. Either way, it probably needs cleaning if you've never done it and it's easy to do.

If you can reliably 'fix' your issue with a power cycle though it probably isn't that, but I'd clean it regardless if you have a few minutes.

[Crazyjoker77]

Not familiar with that brand but theres only so many ways you can make a furnace. Is it a mid or high efficiency unit? Any chance it has a honeywell smart gas valve on it. I've had to change two that had the exact same symptoms as OP.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/images/products/zoom/sv9602p4816-1.jpg

[Swank]

I went through the exact same thing a couple of years ago, restarting the furnace would make it come on properly but looking back I think that was just coincidence. Cleaning the flame sensor helped but the problem returned within days, replacing the flame sensor did the trick, it's worked flawlessly ever since. Most people say it's really easy to do but accessing it on mine was a real PITA, hopefully that's not the case for you and you can either fix it or rule it out quickly.

[dj_rice]

AMRE Supply is my go to for some furnace parts. My circuit board crapped out a few years ago. Reliance wanted $250 just to come look. Found a member on 780Tuners that does furnace side work. But his contact didn't have circuit board in stock. AMRE did. He did my install for cheap $120. Gave him another $20 for coming short notice/gas. Circuit board was $300ish IIRC. One day without a furnace and no space heater sucked.

[Darell_n]

Open the cover to look at the control board directly. The status lights may not be visible through the peephole.

[bjstare]

Just an update, it's been working fine for the last couple days. Intermittent problems are the worst kind.

And I can see the status light through the peephole, I know where to look. I also opened up the cover to look at the burner and noticed theres a small condensate leak coming from somewhere. If we get some consistently warm weather one weekend, and I feel ambitious, I'm going to tear into it and look around... until then, I'll just cross my fingers and do the power cycle routine if the problem pops up again :dunno:

[jeffh]

Check the screw clamps near where the vent pipe leaves the furnace. Apparently this is a very common spot to have a condensate leak. I just found this out the other day by a service buddy, and mine needed at least three full turns each to be tight. Common factory installed problem. Also, check rubber tubes that go from the vent to the lower resercoir, and the dummy side of the condensate connection that goes out to the floor drain/pump.

[taemo]

what does the status light indicator tell you regarding the problem?

we had something like that happen earlier this year in the middle of winter when it was -20C and turns out for us it was the pressure switch gone bad

[bjstare]

what does the status light indicator tell you regarding the problem?

we had something like that happen earlier this year in the middle of winter when it was -20C and turns out for us it was the pressure switch gone bad

If you look in the manual or on the inside of the panel, there's a legend for the number/pattern of blinks and it will tell you what's wrong.

[eblend]

I had intermittent furnace problems, and like someone mentioned above, it was the damn gas valve that got stuck. AMRE had one for $125, replaced mine and it's been perfect since. Before that I had to basically power cycle the thing every few days sometimes, or sometimes multiple times a day. Used a recording software and an old laptop webcam to record with sound what was going on. The click when the gas valve opened was very different than when it didn't light up, and that's how I finally knew it was the valve. It was the worst kind of problem to troubleshoot as it would work for days at a time before crapping out. I am sure if I called someone to troubleshoot they would have been here multiple times replacing every part imaginable.

[cdnsir]

Not really related to Op's issue, but want to share my experience with a furnace replacement that happened just this morning.

Mine started acting up with some low screeching noises, then hot air stopped coming out couple of days later. Checked the error code and it said something was wrong with the pressure switch. The furnace is intimindating so ended up calling Action Furnace. $70 for a service call, determined the induction motor was out, $900 for parts and labour. Advised that mine was 14 years old, and unless it was built prior to the 80's, 15 years is about how long the new ones last.

The sevice guy made an appointment for the sales guy to come to do an evaluation, they range from $5500 to $6600 all in for Amana's. Ended up picking up a mid range one for $6000 for my average-sized single detached. Service was good and fast, but do feel they push to replace more than doing the repair.

Could had probably insisted on a repair, but knowing the blower was replaced once before and it was a mid-efficency furnace. Just seems like it was time to bite the bullet on a new one.

[sabad66]

Service was good and fast, but do feel they push to replace more than doing the repair.

yup, i noticed this as well when talking to almost all HVAC companies. Even when i posted on an HVAC-professionals forum (hvac-talk.com) about replacing my blower motor, pretty much all replies were "don't bother doing the $200 repair on your 40 year old furnace that otherwise works fine, just get a new furnace"

On the other hand, i had ATCO come in for a free inspection right when i moved in, and he told me the opposite - "keep your old furnace as long as you can, they don't make them like they used to". Amazing the different viewpoint when you're an expert but DON'T have any skin in the game/interest in selling a new furnace.

[ExtraSlow]

yup, i noticed this as well when talking to almost all HVAC companies. Even when i posted on an HVAC-professionals forum (hvac-talk.com) about replacing my blower motor, pretty much all replies were "don't bother doing the $200 repair on your 40 year old furnace that otherwise works fine, just get a new furnace"

On the other hand, i had ATCO come in for a free inspection right when i moved in, and he told me the opposite - "keep your old furnace as long as you can, they don't make them like they used to". Amazing the different viewpoint when you're an expert but DON'T have any skin in the game/interest in selling a new furnace.

Yep Yep, get ATCO to check things out to have an unbiased opinion. The HVAC and plumbing company reps get a comission on the total invoice I'm sure, so they push hard to make you spend money. Cocksuckers.

[Darell_n]

Yep Yep, get ATCO to check things out to have an unbiased opinion. The HVAC and plumbing company reps get a comission on the total invoice I'm sure, so they push hard to make you spend money. Cocksuckers.

I’m in the industry. Keep fixing it forever if you want to save money.

[ExtraSlow]

So yeah, if I need a furnace tech to come out, it seems cheaper to just pay for furnace cleaning and get the "tune up" free. I'm having some confusing issues, what may be furnace or thermostat related. Can't figure it out yet. Seems like both, but that also seem unlikely.

[speedog]

So yeah, if I need a furnace tech to come out, it seems cheaper to just pay for furnace cleaning and get the "tune up" free. I'm having some confusing issues, what may be furnace or thermostat related. Can't figure it out yet. Seems like both, but that also seem unlikely.

Not knowing what your issues are, have you checked to see how dirty your filter is? A dirty filter will create all sorts of issues due to inadequate air flow.

[blueToy]

also check where the air comes into your home. Sometimes the intake can get full of snow or ice up? Can you call Atco out to get it checked out?



"Yep Yep, get ATCO to check things out to have an unbiased opinion. The HVAC and plumbing company reps get a comission on the total invoice I'm sure, so they push hard to make you spend money. Cocksuckers."


LOL ... just saw this. You say it like its a bad thing!!!! lolol.... :thumbsup:

[ExtraSlow]

OK, I'll type out the whole thing, which I should have done to start.
Furnace was running for shorter than normal periods, and house wasn't warming up, so I figured it was "short cycling". Noticed at the same time that the wireless thermostat was occasionally showing "no signal". none of this felt urgent, because the house was sort of close to the correct temperature most of the day, so the furnace must have been working most of the time.

LED on furnace board wasn't showing an error, but I followed the procedure in the manual to retrieve stored codes, and it did show a code for "flue limit switch error". Ok, that seems like a common airflow-related issue. Replaced the air filter, checked the combustion air intake, and that's nice and clear. I cannot check the furnace exhaust, as it's on my roof and the roof is covered in ice and snow in that area. I did get on a ladder to look at it, and there's no external blockage anyway. Couldn't be too badly blocked, since it's running fine most of the time.

So I'm sitting here, thinking that I have two things indicating issues, and I don't know which to troubleshoot. The wireless thermostat (Honeywell THM532R sending to Honeywell TH6320R) seems to be losing connectivity sometimes. AND the flue limit switch is showing an error occasionally. Could one problem cause the other? I don't see how, but .....

I have called Atco, and they plan to come out sometime next week.

What am I missing here?

[Waldi]

Had similar issue with my aunt furnace on Dec, 24, and brought ATCO tech to diagnose as they advised us to replace pressure switch which we did. Problem started again I went to diagnose led light and it was pointing to pressure switch. Call ATCO again and they came after testing indicated that igniter might be faulty and need to be replaced and they did not have one available they recommended ARPIs. Not having much choice called those guys and tech showed up fairly soon. He tested furnace and determined that control board is faulty. Replace it and furnace started to work. Lessons learned, the fault indicator was not working correctly as board was fried and tech even stated that most likely replacing of pressure sensor was not required. If you are troubleshooting furnace follow more advanced methodology using multimeter.

[speedog]

Draft inducer motor, do not have.
Furnace igniter, do not have.
Pressure switch, do not have.
Control board, do not have.

I think I am thankful for these do not have.

[Darell_n]

Draft inducer motor, do not have.
Furnace igniter, do not have.
Pressure switch, do not have.
Control board, do not have.

I think I am thankful for these do not have.

Reliable heat is a luxury, and you sir, will have it. I myself have a unicorn, standing pilot and thermocouple with a control board and inducer motor. Made only during the glorious year of 1996.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Reliable heat is a luxury, and you sir, will have it. I myself have a unicorn, standing pilot and thermocouple with a control board and inducer motor. Made only during the glorious year of 1996.

Nineteen! Ninety!! Six!!!
Nineteen!! Ninety!!! Six!!!!

88764

[ExtraSlow]

So, I don't appear to be having connectivity issues between the furnace and the wireless thermostat any more. That's great! I also haven't noticed the furnace short cycling, but.....

The furnace is still showing the stored "3-3" code that indicates "flue limit switch error".

Thoughts anyone, but especially Darell_n?

[Darell_n]

So, I don't appear to be having connectivity issues between the furnace and the wireless thermostat any more. That's great! I also haven't noticed the furnace short cycling, but.....

The furnace is still showing the stored "3-3" code that indicates "flue limit switch error".

Thoughts anyone, but especially Darell_n?

Sounds like a switch that needs to be manually reset. What is your make and model #?

[ExtraSlow]

Carrier 58STA110 Series 130
88765

[Darell_n]

If it is just a stored code and the heat is working at the time, just cycle the power switch for the furnace to clear the saved code. I would measure the heat rise across the furnace while heating. If it is too high it will trip the '33' code and is likely caused by insufficient airflow. Dirty filter, filter with too high a MERV rating, use of return air filters in the house, too many vents closed off, or the furnace is just oversized for the ducts. Fortunately, you can simply use the next speed on your blower motor as it came wired to heat on the lowest speed. (page 34 in your manual).

The tech that checks your furnace should be measuring the heat rise and gas pressure before making any changes.

[ExtraSlow]

I have called Atco, and they plan to come out sometime next week.
Hilarious. Atco has declined to do an equipment inspection. According to their email, they are too busy to do this. I'm no longer having issues, so maybe I don't care.

[Darell_n]

Well, winter hasn’t even arrived yet. There will be -30s very soon.

[ExtraSlow]

Well, winter hasn’t even arrived yet. There will be -30s very soon.

Negative, I now live here:
88792

[JDMMAN]

Wow interesting with all these people having furnace issues! My grandparent's H.E. Lennox was having issues starting up this past week. It was diagnosed to be a high-level switch; usually a pretty inexpensive part and easily self replaced. For those having this issue, try looking up your furnace model and find the high-level switch. For the Lennox unit they had, it was a $20 part.

[triplep]

I recently had an issue where the furnace would shut off and then cut power to the thermostat and turn it off completely and then the thermostat would reboot (Aprilaire WIFI model). One of the issues with the wireless is that they sometimes they aren't wired properly and after some time, draw more power then they need to and they trip the furnace to turn off. I think what I ended up checking was to make sure the common was wired in so the thermostat would have constant 24V. Wasn't the issue as it was connected. Ended up being a dirty air filter (my fault for not checking it first since I thought I had replaced it about a month ago and it looked pretty clean). Crazy what a dirty air filter will do to the furnace!

[ExtraSlow]

If it is just a stored code and the heat is working at the time, just cycle the power switch for the furnace to clear the saved code.
Can you clarify how to clear the codes?
Turning off and back on at the wall switch doesn't seem to.

[ExtraSlow]

Reset my flame rollout switches and wasn't showing the error code after. Was showing the 1-1 all clear. Will check it in a bit when it's run a few cycles.

[ExtraSlow]

So I'm closing the book on my furnace issues. After a manual reset of the flame rollout switches a couple of days ago, the stored code has not returned. I have no idea when or why that rollout switch tripped. It hasn't happened again.

I think there must have also been a loose wire on the thermostat transmitter, which I accidentally fixed while checking things.

Weird that two unrelated things seemed to be happening over the Christmas break. I'll keep an eye on things through the next cold snap.

[Darell_n]

So I'm closing the book on my furnace issues. After a manual reset of the flame rollout switches a couple of days ago, the stored code has not returned. I have no idea when or why that rollout switch tripped. It hasn't happened again.

I think there must have also been a loose wire on the thermostat transmitter, which I accidentally fixed while checking things.

Weird that two unrelated things seemed to be happening over the Christmas break. I'll keep an eye on things through the next cold snap.

I would be most concerned on why the heat worked at all with a tripped roll-out switch.

[ZenOps]

Just finished minor tune up of my finicky 93% Lennox. Cleaned off flame sensor - check. Vacuumed out that weird nipple at the back of the unit - check. Cleared all air intakes and outlets - check. Thwacked the condensate line with my finger a few times - check.

Getting ready for this weekends blast.

[Darell_n]

Just finished minor tune up of my finicky 93% Lennox. Cleaned off flame sensor - check. Vacuumed out that weird nipple at the back of the unit - check. Cleared all air intakes and outlets - check. Thwacked the condensate line with my finger a few times - check.

Getting ready for this weekends blast.

We are going to need to see a photo of your weird nipple.

[ExtraSlow]

Darrel_n, since my furnace came with a single speed psc motor, is it possible to install a variable speed motor in it? Would be nice to have it running at less than 100% when it's just circulating air, which it does 24/7/365 to keep temps equal in house.

[rage2]

My first winter with a new furnace and guess what it can’t heat the house now that it’s starting to get cold. Wtf.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Darell_n]

Darrel_n, since my furnace came with a single speed psc motor, is it possible to install a variable speed motor in it? Would be nice to have it running at less than 100% when it's just circulating air, which it does 24/7/365 to keep temps equal in house.

Yes, you can. They make replacements specifically for this and I am considering this myself. This is the first year I’ve had my fan running continuously.

- - - Updated - - -


Seeing all these furnace headaches makes me nervous to replace mine.

Last week I replaced the bearings in my blower fan for $40 as they were starting to get noisy. Its the first furnace repair I have had to make in the 6.5 years I have been in the house. The blower fan is from 1969 so I'm not sure when they were changed last. The furnace is a Furnasman from 1969 haha. Works amazing.

I wouldn’t. All it takes is one repair and your energy savings with the new furnace have vanished.

[Darell_n]

My first winter with a new furnace and guess what it can’t heat the house now that it’s starting to get cold. Wtf.

I would check for an error code on the furnace. It’s likely not hitting 100% throttle. I recently replaced the control board and dual pressure switch for the same problem, on my sister’s 2 yr old furnace. It was half the cost for me to buy the parts outright vs the labour having warranty parts installed.

[sabad66]

ExtraSlow, look into the mars azure Digi motor:
https://thelazycouple.com/give-your-furnace-a-second-wind-9b7bfb4f8ea

Looks like it does exactly what you want

[speedog]

My first winter with a new furnace and guess what it can’t heat the house now that it’s starting to get cold. Wtf.
So why did you replace your old furnace?

- - - Updated - - -


We are going to need to see a photo of your weird nipple.

You may have that need but rest assured that most of us do not.

[rage2]

So why did you replace your old furnace?
The control board died in the middle of winter. I was waiting for the motor to die so I can retrofit it with a DC motor, but at this point it was replacing everything. Needed it back up quick, and went with the new furnace route. I regret it already.

[dirtsniffer]

88941
88942

I have condensation leaking from the pvc exhaust pipe. Easy repair? Do I need to cut out the elbow and 45 and reassemble with new parts?

I checked the drain and water appears to be draining correctly. Furnace is still functioning.

[bjstare]

Seeing all these furnace headaches makes me nervous to replace mine.

Last week I replaced the bearings in my blower fan for $40 as they were starting to get noisy. Its the first furnace repair I have had to make in the 6.5 years I have been in the house. The blower fan is from 1969 so I'm not sure when they were changed last. The furnace is a Furnasman from 1969 haha. Works amazing.

Don't replace it. My first house had a super old furnace, and it was easy/cheap to repair. I'd much prefer to have a furnace like that over the new HE garbage I have now.

[ExtraSlow]

I love my 80% efficiency unit that vents through a real chimney. Don't want the 95% or whatever.

For everyone in this thread, since it's going to be cold and that's when furnaces break, here's the hours for AMRE supply:
Hours of Operation
Monday 8:00am to 5:00pm
Tuesday 8:00am to 5:00pm
Wednesday 8:00am to 5:00pm
Thursday 8:00am to 5:00pm
Friday 8:00am to 5:00pm
Saturday 9:00am to 4:00pm
Sunday Closed

And if anyone need emergency heat, all the equipment rental places have those 120V electric heaters in stock. Places like Rogers Rent-all etc. a few of those'll get you through a cold night in an emergency.

Govern yourself accordingly.

[94CoRd]

Darrel_n, since my furnace came with a single speed psc motor, is it possible to install a variable speed motor in it? Would be nice to have it running at less than 100% when it's just circulating air, which it does 24/7/365 to keep temps equal in house.

Interested in this as well, but not sure where to start. What info would be needed from my current furnace? My fan is quite loud (unfinished basement, no utility room), so i don't even attempt to run the fan when there's no call for heat.

[ExtraSlow]

Interested in this as well, but not sure where to start. What info would be needed from my current furnace? My fan is quite loud (unfinished basement, no utility room), so i don't even attempt to run the fan when there's no call for heat.

You and I can learn together. It'll be fun. We can hold hands and have long phone calls. :love:

[94CoRd]

You and I can learn together. It'll be fun. We can hold hands and have long phone calls. :love:

Awesome! If you're in the NW, we could even use the same emergency HVAC technician, as I'm sure there will be a need for it when wandering down this path.
Darrel_n - do you have experience with this type of retrofit?

[ZenOps]

Weather predictors seem to conspire on -31 day temp for Tuesday. Yikes.

[Darell_n]

Awesome! If you're in the NW, we could even use the same emergency HVAC technician, as I'm sure there will be a need for it when wandering down this path.
Darrel_n - do you have experience with this type of retrofit?

I haven’t done one yet, it I don’t see it being very difficult.

[cdnsir]

My first winter with a new furnace and guess what it can’t heat the house now that it’s starting to get cold. Wtf.

Ever since the replacement from a mid to a High Efficiency furnace last fall, I am experiencing the same issue. I can hear the different fan speeds kicking in as needed, that seems to work. But the air that comes out just isn’t as hot as the old furnace, and that was explained to me as normal for the H.E.

Well now the cycles run much longer because the air is lukewarm. Where’s the energy savings when it burns cleaner but burns for twice as long? And don’t get me started on the fan noise, it gets tuned out but it sounds like a non-stop white noise machine.

[rage2]

Ever since the replacement from a mid to a High Efficiency furnace last fall, I am experiencing the same issue. I can hear the different fan speeds kicking in as needed, that seems to work. But the air that comes out just isn’t as hot as the old furnace, and that was explained to me as normal for the H.E.

Well now the cycles run much longer because the air is lukewarm. Where’s the energy savings when it burns cleaner but burns for twice as long? And don’t get me started on the fan noise, it gets tuned out but it sounds like a non-stop white noise machine.
That's exactly what I'm experiencing. Data shows this. I'm currently heating my house with the blinds all open. Ecobee is bitching about my furnace too.

88968

[ShermanEF9]

I feel like a homeowner noob asking, but other than replacing filters, what maintenance should I be doing with my furnace? I've been in our home for about 3 years and we've never done much. We had the ducts cleaned when we first moved in, but that's really it. Are there items I should be checking more often? I'm pretty handy, so I'm not too scared to dig into things if needbe.

[sabad66]

I've heard HE furnaces aren't as reliable, but this is the first i've heard they have trouble keeping up on cold days. Is this really "normal"?? Mid efficiency ones must have been the sweet spot.

More of a reason to try and keep my 1980s Lennoxes as long as possible.

- - - Updated - - -


I feel like a homeowner noob asking, but other than replacing filters, what maintenance should I be doing with my furnace? I've been in our home for about 3 years and we've never done much. We had the ducts cleaned when we first moved in, but that's really it. Are there items I should be checking more often? I'm pretty handy, so I'm not too scared to dig into things if needbe.

Not specifically furnace, but if you have a humidifier attached make sure to change the pad out yearly and clean up any calcium build up on the hoses.

[dj_rice]

I feel like a homeowner noob asking, but other than replacing filters, what maintenance should I be doing with my furnace? I've been in our home for about 3 years and we've never done much. We had the ducts cleaned when we first moved in, but that's really it. Are there items I should be checking more often? I'm pretty handy, so I'm not too scared to dig into things if needbe.


Cleaning/checking on your flame sensor. Probably the most common issue during cold winters

[cdnsir]

That's exactly what I'm experiencing. Data shows this. I'm currently heating my house with the blinds all open. Ecobee is bitching about my furnace too.

88968

That can’t be right. It takes like 1.5 hours to get from 21 to 22.5C which I resent. But temp had never dropped during a cycle.

[rage2]

this was my yesterday. Constant call for heat, while house kept cooling.

88977

It'd randomly jump up in temps tho quickly when we ratchet up the fireplace, then drop when it shuts off from our automation. Just cool air coming out of the furnace.

[AndyL]

I feel like a homeowner noob asking, but other than replacing filters, what maintenance should I be doing with my furnace? I've been in our home for about 3 years and we've never done much. We had the ducts cleaned when we first moved in, but that's really it. Are there items I should be checking more often? I'm pretty handy, so I'm not too scared to dig into things if needbe.

Make sure you ebay/amazon/or otherwise source a new flame sensor and igniter, then tape them to the furnace - so they're there when needed. They're cheap as chips bought in advance - 300+$ when you get home home and find out one has failed...

Beyond that - bearings on the blower motor... Some are sealed so you never touch them - older ones you can lubricate.

[rx7_turbo2]

this was my yesterday. Constant call for heat, while house kept cooling.

88977

It'd randomly jump up in temps tho quickly when we ratchet up the fireplace, then drop when it shuts off from our automation. Just cool air coming out of the furnace.
You’re normally pretty thorough with this stuff so I apologize if you’ve already taken the following into account.

Are you sure the Ecobee is setup correctly for your furnace, and that the furnace thermostat wiring is correct? My Ecobee Status like the one you posted shows the 2nd stage of heat as a bar just below the “heat/cool” bar. I would be surprised if your furnace didn’t have two stages of heat. Is it possible the Ecobee is set up thinking it’s single stage and/or the thermostat wiring to the thermostat or the furnace is incorrect so the furnace is never “firing” the second stage of heat?

[speedog]

this was my yesterday. Constant call for heat, while house kept cooling.

88977

It'd randomly jump up in temps tho quickly when we ratchet up the fireplace, then drop when it shuts off from our automation. Just cool air coming out of the furnace.

21.5C? Are you a Greta fan? Fuck that noise, 23.5C is our daytime setting, doing our bit to keep the Alberta gas industry going.

[colsankey]

Preach
My parents keep their house at set at 18 celcius. I usually wear my fall jacket when visiting them. But I'm a privileged white guy who grew up in Sask and got sick of the cold.

[rage2]

You’re normally pretty thorough with this stuff so I apologize if you’ve already taken the following into account.

Are you sure the Ecobee is setup correctly for your furnace, and that the furnace thermostat wiring is correct? My Ecobee Status like the one you posted shows the 2nd stage of heat as a bar just below the “heat/cool” bar. I would be surprised if your furnace didn’t have two stages of heat. Is it possible the Ecobee is set up thinking it’s single stage and/or the thermostat wiring to the thermostat or the furnace is incorrect so the furnace is never “firing” the second stage of heat?
Not enough wires for 2 stage, so they rigged it as a single stage but it goes stage 2 after 10 mins.


21.5C? Are you a Greta fan? Fuck that noise, 23.5C is our daytime setting, doing our bit to keep the Alberta gas industry going.
I make up for it in the summer with AC.

[rx7_turbo2]

Not enough wires for 2 stage, so they rigged it as a single stage but it goes stage 2 after 10 mins.

Can you confirm the gas valve is actually opening to the 2nd stage? You mentioned the air coming out of the ducts is “luke warm”
Unless they managed to way undersized the new furnace, I’d suspect the issue lies somewhere in the staging, or possibly the fan speed when the 2nd stage is called for? Thermostat wire is pretty cheap could always run a temp line from thermostat to furnace then configure it all properly see if it makes a difference?

[rage2]

Can you confirm the gas valve is actually opening to the 2nd stage? You mentioned the air coming out of the ducts is “luke warm”
Unless they managed to way undersized the new furnace, I’d suspect the issue lies somewhere in the staging, or possibly the fan speed when the 2nd stage is called for? Thermostat wire is pretty cheap could always run a temp line from thermostat to furnace then configure it all properly see if it makes a difference?
I'm actually considering moving the thermostat into the mechanical room. We have remote sensors throughout the house anyways so it makes zero difference. The current location isn't even used for my temperature averages anyways.

[cdnsir]

Can you confirm the gas valve is actually opening to the 2nd stage? You mentioned the air coming out of the ducts is “luke warm”
Unless they managed to way undersized the new furnace, I’d suspect the issue lies somewhere in the staging, or possibly the fan speed when the 2nd stage is called for? Thermostat wire is pretty cheap could always run a temp line from thermostat to furnace then configure it all properly see if it makes a difference?

That was my suspicion, I also only have 1 wire going to the Ecobee, which causes it to show the furnace as a single stage even though it's not.

Actually got the installer to come back to make sure things are installed properly, and pointed this question out. He said it actually doesn't matter what the Ecobee thinks, the furnace board determines and controls the staging based on patterns of how fast it could get to the target temperature in the past.

Still don't know if i was fed BS. All I know is year-over-year (forgot how the weather was last year), I used more gas but less electricity.

[rage2]

They checked it out today, says there's a problem with drainage, so water was draining back into inducer? or something so it vapour locked. He drained everything, nothing was clogged, so suspect it's how the drain wasn't effective. It's working now.

Also suggested moving thermostat downstairs for 2 stage without rewiring the whole house, instead he said don't even bother with stage 1. It's now jumped to just do stage 2. If I don't like the quick temp swings or it's too much, then look into moving thermostat to furnace room.

Once it was cleared up, took a whopping 10 mins to gain 2 degrees back onto target. So I guess it's fixed for now. He suggests yearly maintenance to check on this shit. This ain't what I signed up for. Fucking high maintenance bullshit.

[rage2]

Actually got the installer to come back to make sure things are installed properly, and pointed this question out. He said it actually doesn't matter what the Ecobee thinks, the furnace board determines and controls the staging based on patterns of how fast it could get to the target temperature in the past.

Still don't know if i was fed BS. All I know is year-over-year (forgot how the weather was last year), I used more gas but less electricity.
That's not how it works in a proper setup. There's a wire to set stage 1, and another for stage 2, and thermostats can determine when it choses each stage.

In our 1 wire setup, it's fixed on when the furnace decides to go from stage 1 to stage 2 (10-15 mins) or now in my case, always stage 2.

[rx7_turbo2]

Actually got the installer to come back to make sure things are installed properly, and pointed this question out. He said it actually doesn't matter what the Ecobee thinks, the furnace board determines and controls the staging based on patterns of how fast it could get to the target temperature in the past.

I think that’s a bit of a “bandaid”. Manufacturers of 2 stage furnaces create that functionality to accommodate for the fact lots of installations won’t have the ability to allow 2 stage control from the thermostat due to a lack of conductors between thermostat and furnace. Ultimately I think letting the Ecobee determine staging is the most effective due to it’s adjustability.


That's not how it works in a proper setup. There's a wire to set stage 1, and another for stage 2, and thermostats can determine when it choses each stage.

In our 1 wire setup, it's fixed on when the furnace decides to go from stage 1 to stage 2 (10-15 mins) or now in my case, always stage 2.

We’re the same in terms of multiple sensors, so I moved the thermostat to a spot out of the way that let me run the right # of wires, took a little bit of tinkering to get it dialed in, what sensors when, temp differentials and thresholds etc but we’ve noticed a significant increase in house comfort, and it really only took a couple hours, gave us the ability to control the humidifier from the Ecobee as well.

[lint]

That's not how it works in a proper setup. There's a wire to set stage 1, and another for stage 2, and thermostats can determine when it choses each stage.

In our 1 wire setup, it's fixed on when the furnace decides to go from stage 1 to stage 2 (10-15 mins) or now in my case, always stage 2.

You can use look into this to add a wire without having to run new wires. I installed this with a Nest since it wasn't able to steal enough power to keep it running without a C wire.
https://smartthermostatguide.com/c-wire-venstar-add-a-wire-adapter-review/

[killramos]

My dream is to one day have 2 furnaces and eliminate all the BS...

[ExtraSlow]

My dream is to one day have 2 furnaces and eliminate all the BS...

Thats not how that works. You end up with twice the BS.

[03ozwhip]

I'm hoping my flame sensor is the issue I'm having as well....it will be blowing air but no heat, or it will turn on for a quick minute, then shut off and constantly keep doing that.

[The_Penguin]

Thats not how that works. You end up with twice the BS.

Can confirm. 2 Lennox here, double trouble.

[speedog]

My dream is to one day have 2 furnaces and eliminate all the BS...

Or downsize to eliminate need for two furnaces? :dunno:

[ExtraSlow]

Or downsize to eliminate need for two furnaces? :dunno:

He just upsized this winter. Bigger is better yo!

[killramos]

Or downsize to eliminate need for two furnaces? :dunno:

That’s just crazy talk...

[rage2]

I'm hoping my flame sensor is the issue I'm having as well....it will be blowing air but no heat, or it will turn on for a quick minute, then shut off and constantly keep doing that.
I miss those problems. 5 mins with sandpaper and back in business.

I don’t even know wtf an inducer is.

[speedog]

I miss those problems. 5 mins with sandpaper and back in business.

I don’t even know wtf an inducer is.

It's a setting on the bidet you own and that you're not telling us about.

[ZenOps]

For quick reference a heating cycle for me is 9 minutes for 2 degrees F. Cycle happens every hour when at -30.

Its probably overcapacity, but I like the closer to hairdryer blast of heat. Finished plugging up all the airgaps around the exterior walls, including temporary cardboard door insert because my main door shrinks every year.

I do have two Delonghi oil filled 1500 watt electric backups, which keep things from freezing in case maintenance is needed, and to ensure nothing is ever an "emergency" call. I've noticed that they have slowly being going up in price over the years. If electricity was closer to 4 cents/kwh - I'd probably just dump the natgas.

[Darell_n]

It's a setting on the bidet you own and that you're not telling us about.

It's the secretive prostate milking mode. The Inducer

[speedog]

It's the secretive prostate milking mode. The Inducer

rage2 has all the best toys.

[ThePenIsMightier]

...

Once it was cleared up, took a whopping 10 mins to gain 2 degrees back onto target. So I guess it's fixed for now. He suggests yearly maintenance to check on this shit. This ain't what I signed up for. Fucking high maintenance bullshit.

Yep. Modern furnaces seem to have made the jump from small block Chevy to Ferrari with an emphasis on the worst features. Thank Allah they save us __% on the lowest priced natural gas on earth!

Now I'm off to my high efficiency washing machine that takes 90 minutes to do a piss poor job of cleaning but only uses 2 cups of water. Water that costs $8/tonne...

[ExtraSlow]

I've always thought furnaces were way oversized. I know industrial machines operate most efficiently in steady-state modes, so why are home furnaces designed to run for ten minutes an hour?

I swear my house could be kept warm in - 40 weather by something with under 40,000 btu , but my furnace is rated to an output of 80,000 btu.

[Darell_n]

I've always thought furnaces were way oversized. I know industrial machines operate most efficiently in steady-state modes, so why are home furnaces designed to run for ten minutes an hour?

I swear my house could be kept warm in - 40 weather by something with under 40,000 btu , but my furnace is rated to an output of 80,000 btu.

They are sized for worst case scenario. Open a window on Monday night and see how the runtime looks. Lol. I had my basement carpet installed 10 years ago at -20 outside and my furnace ran for 4 hrs non-stop, still could barely warm up enough to stretch the carpet. (material came through basement window)

[ExtraSlow]

I think I'll leave mine off for a few hours Sunday and then see how long it takes to warm up.
I don't pay close attention, but my house goes from 17.5 to 20.5 every morning pretty fast.

[Darell_n]

Looking at my Nest, it takes around 30-40 minutes to heat from 19 to 20°c when my schedule changes at 5am weekdays. 61,500 btu output in 1100 sqft bungalow.

[Cash Money Hoes]

I've always thought furnaces were way oversized. I know industrial machines operate most efficiently in steady-state modes, so why are home furnaces designed to run for ten minutes an hour?

I swear my house could be kept warm in - 40 weather by something with under 40,000 btu , but my furnace is rated to an output of 80,000 btu.


This is the logic behind newer modulating gas valve furnaces which can run at lower outputs. They're designed to match Btuh output with heat loss in home. More consistent temperature distribution through home and overall less energy consumption.

[rage2]

Looking at my Nest, it takes around 30-40 minutes to heat from 19 to 20°c when my schedule changes at 5am weekdays. 61,500 btu output in 1100 sqft bungalow.
10 mins for 1C here.

In other news, temps are stable now at the house.

89013

[benyl]

Can confirm. 2 Lennox here, double trouble.

Yup, replace furnace fan motor number 1 Christmas 2018, and then number 2 Christmas 2019. $1,500 each. Love Christmas furnace maintenance.

[Maxt]

The modulation helps with the sizing problems as well, on top of that, most of the problems with modern furnaces occur during the ignition sequence, keeping the burner lit for long periods of time reduces the chance of that by reducing ignition events.

[ExtraSlow]

Love these cold air temps. I have some serious frosting happening on the cold air intake, and I assume that's why my floor around the furnace is soaked. Note this is not the combustion air intake, but one that ties into my cold air return line.
89037
89038

[sabad66]

Can confirm. 2 Lennox here, double trouble.


Yup, replace furnace fan motor number 1 Christmas 2018, and then number 2 Christmas 2019. $1,500 each. Love Christmas furnace maintenance.

At least if you have two you're never without a working furnace in the house and buys you time if you want to take your time and order the part/install it yourself instead of paying for an emergency service call.

[Darell_n]

Love these cold air temps. I have some serious frosting happening on the cold air intake, and I assume that's why my floor around the furnace is soaked. Note this is not the combustion air intake, but one that ties into my cold air return line.
89037
89038

Looks similar to mine. You can close it off completely to increase humidity in your house, or open it more to lower the humidity. Note: the flap inside is probably cut off so you can’t close it completely. They are less than $2 at Home Depot.

The low spot in the flex duct probably has a gallon of water or ice in it.

[suntan]

At least if you have two you're never without a working furnace in the house and buys you time if you want to take your time and order the part/install it yourself instead of paying for an emergency service call.

That's why you should have three furnaces for true redundancy/failover protection.