Alberta brings back the carbon tax

[AndyL]

Wtf? So youre reintroducing it... And not rebating. Nice. Thanks ucp.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alberta-launches-30-per-tonne-carbon-tax-to-take-effect-in-january/

[Thaco]

Maybe he gave his head a shake and realized if he cancels the provincial the money's just gonna go to ottawa anyway.

[Tik-Tok]

Did anyone really believe him when he said otherwise?

[dirtsniffer]

Did anyone read the article? This is for industrial emitters, not for consumers such as us

[AndyL]

Did anyone read the article? This is for industrial emitters, not for consumers such as us

And there's not flow through? there's only one payer at the end of the day...

[suntan]

There's been a carbon tax on large emitters since 2007...

[Thaco]

Did anyone read the article? This is for industrial emitters, not for consumers such as us

did you directly get a bill for carbon tax? guaranteed large emitters are the same guys that own the gas pumps.

[AndyL]

did you directly get a bill for carbon tax? guaranteed large emitters are the same guys that own the gas pumps.

And send you gas and electric bills.

[ExtraSlow]

You know, I've been meaning to type this out for a while, and here seems as good a place as any.

Carbon taxes are only effective at thier stated goals of reducing atmospheric CO2 if three conditions are met. 1) they must be directly on energy CONSUMERS, 2) there are no exceptions or rebates and 3) they are high enough to be painful to most people.

Corporate capital, and thus industrial emissions and activity can be moved from jurisdictions with carbon taxes to those without. We've seen this to be true. Similarly, rich people have many options for where they live, travel and consume energy.
However, it's middle class and below individuals who would truly change thier lifestyles of they had a strong economic incentive to do so. They wouldn't run out and buy Tesla, but what they would do is work on energy efficiency like thier lives depended on it, because they would.

It's politically unpalatable, and bad for the economy, but if you want to save the planet with carbon tax, you'd better be ready to directly harm some voters.

[Thaco]

You know, I've been meaning to type this out for a while, and here seems as good a place as any.

Carbon taxes are only effective at thier stated goals of reducing atmospheric CO2 if three conditions are met. 1) they must be directly on energy CONSUMERS, 2) there are no exceptions or rebates and 3) they are high enough to be painful to most people.

Corporate capital, and thus industrial emissions and activity can be moved from jurisdictions with carbon taxes to those without. We've seen this to be true. Similarly, rich people have many options for where they live, travel and consume energy.
However, it's middle class and below individuals who would truly change thier lifestyles of they had a strong economic incentive to do so. They wouldn't run out and buy Tesla, but what they would do is work on energy efficiency like thier lives depended on it, because they would.

It's politically unpalatable, and bad for the economy, but if you want to save the planet with carbon tax, you'd better be ready to directly harm some voters.

Arguably #3 already exists, especially here... carbon tax is just the salt in the wounds of those already suffering from a struggling energy industry.
and #1, of course it gets put on us, no corporation is going to eat that cost.

[01RedDX]

.

[ExtraSlow]

Arguably #3 already exists, especially here... carbon tax is just the salt in the wounds of those already suffering from a struggling energy industry.
and #1, of course it gets put on us, no corporation is going to eat that cost.

Totally disagree on #3 already existing. I don't know a single person who drives less in Alberta because of the cost of fuel. We've sent capital and industrial activity away but not reduced actual carbon emissions. $100/ton minimum and I'm not even kidding.

[Thaco]

Totally disagree on #3 already existing. I don't know a single person who drives less in Alberta because of the cost of fuel. We've sent capital and industrial activity away but not reduced actual carbon emissions. $100/ton minimum and I'm not even kidding.

ever heard of people unemployed? pretty sure they're causing less emissions, and definitely feeling the salt in the wounds.

[AndyL]

ever heard of people unemployed? pretty sure they're causing less emissions, and definitely feeling the salt in the wounds.

Yep and living in vans by river saves on house heating costs and the suicide rate keeps climbing - so that just takes a few more kg of co2 from the air...

And now the relocation to find work is beginning anew so that'll export those emissions elsewhere...

Feels like a trudeau plan :rofl:

[JRSC00LUDE]

You know, if the federal government would just nationalize the energy industry they could just force it to all go green and nobody would have to worry about it and we wouldn't have to pay any "climate" taxes at all.

[ExtraSlow]

You know, if the federal government would just nationalize the energy industry they could just force it to all go green and nobody would have to worry about it and we wouldn't have to pay any "climate" taxes at all.

It's a win win win!

[JRSC00LUDE]

It's a win win win!

Birds would sing, children would stop screaming and we'd all be healthier and wealthier!

[04Terminator]

Did anyone really believe him when he said otherwise?

had to be done to fix the NDP debt.

[suntan]

Did anyone really believe him when he said otherwise?

They did say they were going to raise the rate for large emitters. So...

[Thaco]

had to be done to fix the NDP debt.

hahahah did you check the budget at all? he has a 2bn deficit more than the NDP had... he's Fiscal Bullshit.

[04Terminator]

hahahah did you check the budget at all? he has a 2bn deficit more than the NDP had... he's Fiscal Bullshit.

Oh, I know. Kenney is a huge piece of shit, that's been the position of any sane person from day 1.

[370Z]

I'm really more pissed about how much more I'm going to be paying under the UCP.

Insurance up 25% per year, tuition for my wife up 7% per year.... talking about PST.

To top it off, Suncor earnings came out this quarter.... fell to just a little over 1 billion. Ha! Poor oil and gas companies, they're really hurtin'... I've been watching them rake in these insane profits every quarter since the "downturn".

[Thaco]

I'm really more pissed about how much more I'm going to be paying under the UCP.

Insurance up 25% per year, tuition for my wife up 7% per year.... talking about PST.

To top it off, Suncor earnings came out this quarter.... fell to just a little over 1 billion. Ha! Poor oil and gas companies, they're really hurtin'... I've been watching them rake in these insane profits every quarter since the "downturn".

its not that they're losing money, they're just making less billions, boo fuckin hoo eh?

[dirtsniffer]

I'm really more pissed about how much more I'm going to be paying under the UCP.

Insurance up 25% per year, tuition for my wife up 7% per year.... talking about PST.

To top it off, Suncor earnings came out this quarter.... fell to just a little over 1 billion. Ha! Poor oil and gas companies, they're really hurtin'... I've been watching them rake in these insane profits every quarter since the "downturn".

Any info on how the ucp has made insurance more expensive?

[Tik-Tok]

Any info on how the ucp has made insurance more expensive?

When all the rig-pigs realize the UCP isn't actually helping them get jobs, they torch their belongings for insurance scams, and everyone pays more? :rofl:

[370Z]

Any info on how the ucp has made insurance more expensive?

I thought this was big news.... one of the first things they did was remove the insurance capson how much they could increase premiums every year, put in place by the NDP no? I honestly didn't fact check it but it sounds right.

You know, I get the whole reining in spending thing... but when they blatantly support an industry that isn't really "suffering" that bad is where I disagree with them (O&G).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5266436

[A790]

Hey man, we voted for this. Might as well enjoy it. :)

[90_Shelby]

You know, I get the whole reining in spending thing... but when they blatantly support an industry that isn't really "suffering" that bad is where I disagree with them (O&G).


Seriously?

[kertejud2]

Did anyone really believe him when he said otherwise?


He didn’t even say otherwise. TIER was a part of the UCP platform. Of all the crap they’ve been pushing, this is actually a campaign promise they’re following though on.

It’s the consumer tax credit they scrapped and are fighting, but the feds will probably kick in come January anyway.

[Xtrema]

I thought this was big news.... one of the first things they did was remove the insurance capson how much they could increase premiums every year, put in place by the NDP no? I honestly didn't fact check it but it sounds right.

You know, I get the whole reining in spending thing... but when they blatantly support an industry that isn't really "suffering" that bad is where I disagree with them (O&G).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5266436

Don't you dare bad mouth free market at work!

You use, you pay.

:D

This shit is going to trickle down. They only thing I'm pissed about is all these labor unrest and instability and lack of investment for our future/diversification only saved us may be $4B in 4 years compared to the NDP. And our savior is probably a mentally unstable Trump drop a nuke somewhere to boost oil price back to over $100.

[killramos]

TIL That if you make more than you spend, regardless of scale of revenues and costs, means you are by definition not hurting.

[04Terminator]

Hey man, we voted for this. Might as well enjoy it. :)

Sure glad hes spending more so he can give tax breaks to the 0.01%

[ExtraSlow]

TIL That if you make more than you spend, regardless of scale of revenues and costs, means you are by definition not hurting.
And percentages are fake news.

[ExtraSlow]

You know, I've been meaning to type this out for a while, and here seems as good a place as any.

Carbon taxes are only effective at thier stated goals of reducing atmospheric CO2 if three conditions are met. 1) they must be directly on energy CONSUMERS, 2) there are no exceptions or rebates and 3) they are high enough to be painful to most people.

Corporate capital, and thus industrial emissions and activity can be moved from jurisdictions with carbon taxes to those without. We've seen this to be true. Similarly, rich people have many options for where they live, travel and consume energy.
However, it's middle class and below individuals who would truly change thier lifestyles of they had a strong economic incentive to do so. They wouldn't run out and buy Tesla, but what they would do is work on energy efficiency like thier lives depended on it, because they would.

It's politically unpalatable, and bad for the economy, but if you want to save the planet with carbon tax, you'd better be ready to directly harm some voters.

Hey look, an environmental lobby group agrees with me. A really high carbon tax is the most effective and CHEAPEST way to achieve CO2 reduction goals.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canada-needs-carbon-tax-of-210-a-tonne-by-2030-to-meet-paris-targets-report-says
88381

[pheoxs]

I do always laugh at the people that cry carbon taxes don't work. I guarantee if fuel was 3$ a liter that people would drive less and look for more fuel efficient vehicles. Like, how can you argue that. (I'm all for arguing implementation and what the $ goes towards. But to just blanket argue that they don't work is BS)

[ExtraSlow]

They work great if there is no rebate, refund or exceptions.

[ZenOps]

When Paris hits 48 Celsius (say 15,000 to 100,000 immediate heat deaths) thats when they will force the world hands by threatening to nuke countries that do not comply. USA first.

That'll teach them all.

[rage2]

They work great if there is no rebate, refund or exceptions.
This. It's just wealth redistribution otherwise.

OTOH, without rebates, refunds and exceptions, you're punishing the poor. And that's not acceptable in 2019 lol.

People are fucking stupid. That is all.

[ZenOps]

I'm ok with $210 carbon tax. Don't use much and arguably in a few years its time to think about solar considering the USA cannot force Canada to impose tariffs on Chinese solar panels. Bullet proof nickel plated Cybertruck should be around by then too.

Time to start thinking about running more two phase 3000+ watt "thick" electrical wiring. As much as this is Alberta and sacriledge to say: Oil is definitely on its heels.