Traffic Ticket question

[jabjab]

No flaming and legitimate advice please.

I have a clean driving record for the past 9 years. I got a speeding ticket near Airdrie and RCMP said I was going 155 in a 100 zone (no word of a lie I never hit a speed higher than 130). The RCMP wrote the ticket down to 149km

I retained a traffic paralegal that went to court for me and they refused to change the speed to 130 so the paralegal plead not guilty and set a court date.

In talking with people they say that the judge has an option to go back to the 155km speed and suspend my license if I lose.

Is any of these true and wondering what everyone would do in this situation

[revelations]

Dash cam would have been more effective. You could have easily calculated your speed and shown the court.

Also, you could have plead guilty to a lesser charge - did they not accept that either?

Also, do you have larger diameter tires than stock?

[gwill]

why would they reduce your ticket down to 130 just because you said you weren't driving that speed? If the cop clocked you going that fast odds are you were.

I got hit doing 155 in a 100 zone and got a judge to reduce my fine to $275 or so by admitting I was speeding.

Arguing you weren't speeding will get you no where fast. I'd suggest taking a defensive driving course before court and then represent yourself in front of the judge and ask for mercy.

[jabjab]

Dash cam would have been more effective. You could have easily calculated your speed and shown the court.

Also, you could have plead guilty to a lesser charge - did they not accept that either?

Also, do you have larger diameter tires than stock?

I didn't have a dash cam at the time but I got one because of this incident. My stock tire size is 17 and my summer wheels are 18. Won't make much of a difference

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why would they reduce your ticket down to 130 just because you said you weren't driving that speed? If the cop clocked you going that fast odds are you were.

I got hit doing 155 in a 100 zone and got a judge to reduce my fine to $275 or so by admitting I was speeding.

Arguing you weren't speeding will get you no where fast. I'd suggest taking a defensive driving course before court and then represent yourself in front of the judge and ask for mercy.

I admitted to speeding at 130 and told the paralegal and the RCMP officer at the time that it was the maximum speed I had gone at a few points of my trip back home to pass slower moving vehicles.

My argument was give me the ticket and points for 130 and I'll move on but the Airdrie courts refused and said the RCMP already did me a favor.

My court date is in 2 weeks, dont know if I have enough time and my record as of now is clean

[revelations]

I didn't have a dash cam at the time but I got one because of this incident. My stock tire size is 17 and my summer wheels are 18. Won't make much of a difference



Thats not true - you could easily have a 10kph difference. The faster you go, the more its off.

[jabjab]

Thats not true - you could easily have a 10kph difference. The faster you go, the more its off.

Didn't know this but at this point I'm just worried that I could lose my licence if this traffic paralegal does a shitty job

[gwill]

Didn't know this but at this point I'm just worried that I could lose my licence if this traffic paralegal does a shitty job

Your over thinking things. Represent yourself, save your money from the para legal. Admit you were speeding. Offer an excuse that you passed someone and remind them this is your first traffic offense.

The judge will take it easy on you if your driving record is as good as you say it is. Taking the defensive driving course would show them your serious about the offense.

[cancer man]

Wild guess you still have your GDL? go to court plead your cause if you want i'll come and hold your hand.

[jabjab]

Your over thinking things. Represent yourself, save your money from the para legal. Admit you were speeding. Offer an excuse that you passed someone and remind them this is your first traffic offense.

The judge will take it easy on you if your driving record is as good as you say it is. Taking the defensive driving course would show them your serious about the offense.

Reason I went with a paralegal is that I thought it would be better in a small city court. I haven't paid them anything yet which is good.

I would plead my case but this was set for trial and he pled not guilty so there is a chance they say no and convict me of thr 155 instead of the 149. I can't have a 6 month suspension and whatever that fine is

[speedog]

Thats not true - you could easily have a 10kph difference. The faster you go, the more its off.

Yupp, it's entirely possible that 130 on your speedo was quite a bit faster in reality. What is the stock tire's aspect ratio/width versus your 18" tire?

The tires I just put on one of our vehicles went from a 65 series to a 70 series and the speedo reads about 6% low now. My suburban is the other way, speedo is about 2% fast.

[jabjab]

Yupp, it's entirely possible that 130 on your speedo was quite a bit faster in reality. What is the stock tire's aspect ratio/width versus your 18" tire?

The tires I just put on one of our vehicles went from a 65 series to a 70 series and the speedo reads about 6% low now. My suburban is the other way, speedo is about 2% fast.

Stock size is 225/45 /17 and tires that were on at the time was 225 40 18.

Question is do I run the risk of the judge trying me for 155 or just pay the fine alongside demerits that come with it?

[shakalaka]

If you're charged with a certain speeding ticket, no judge is going to increase your ticket to more than that. So if you're facing a 49 kmh ticket, then that's as bad as it can get.

[ThePenIsMightier]

If you're charged with a certain speeding ticket, no judge is going to increase your ticket to more than that. So if you're facing a 49 kmh ticket, then that's as bad as it can get.

This^.
Don't buy into fear mongering nonsense.

[jabjab]

If you're charged with a certain speeding ticket, no judge is going to increase your ticket to more than that. So if you're facing a 49 kmh ticket, then that's as bad as it can get.

There are two speeds written on the ticket. On the first black line it says 155 and below that it reads 149 on a yellow ticket. Points and and different paralegal confirmed with me that the judge is within reason to find me guilty on 155 if he chooses to but don't know how often that happens. In a small city like Airdrie i see it more of a chance of doing this

[Aleks]

Stock size is 225/45 /17 and tires that were on at the time was 225 40 18.

Question is do I run the risk of the judge trying me for 155 or just pay the fine alongside demerits that come with it?

These two tires sizes have virtually identical (outside) diameter, and at 130kmh the difference in speedo is about 0.5km/h. So this can't be used as an argument.

[gwill]

There are two speeds written on the ticket. On the first black line it says 155 and below that it reads 149 on a yellow ticket. Points and and different paralegal confirmed with me that the judge is within reason to find me guilty on 155 if he chooses to but don't know how often that happens. In a small city like Airdrie i see it more of a chance of doing this

You don't need a paralegal so of course theyll be telling you stuff to freak you out. It doesnt seem to matter what people are saying you seem to have your mind set on a specific outcome already.

What's the paralegal going to cost you? When you get to trial what's your defense going to be? These are questions you should be asking the person you hired.

In my case in small town traffic court I had the prosecutor tell me my fine would be $1000 and if I went in front of the judge she would ask for more. She threatend to increase my fine significantly. When I got in front of the judge It was $275.

No judge will throw the book at someone who's never had a ticket in 9 years. Your para legal will cost more then the ticket.

[Ca_Silvia13]

This won't help fighting the ticket but if you are ever in this situation again you can ask to Cop to see the speed that was locked in on the radar gun. If you were honestly not driving 155km then there is no way that's on his radar gun.

[jabjab]

You don't need a paralegal so of course theyll be telling you stuff to freak you out. It doesnt seem to matter what people are saying you seem to have your mind set on a specific outcome already.

What's the paralegal going to cost you? When you get to trial what's your defense going to be? These are questions you should be asking the person you hired.

In my case in small town traffic court I had the prosecutor tell me my fine would be $1000 and if I went in front of the judge she would ask for more. She threatend to increase my fine significantly. When I got in front of the judge It was $275.

No judge will throw the book at someone who's never had a ticket in 9 years. Your para legal will cost more then the ticket.

Well at first I went to go see points and they wouldn't take the ticket on saying that they won't reduce it further cause to them it appears that RCMP saved my license already. I then consulted Nadeau and Associates and they said he could get it reduce that the first appearance. I agreed to it cause paying him 100 bucks so i don't have to go to Airdire was more of a convenience charge in my eyes. He came back and said they wouldn't budge at all (just like points said would happen) and he plead not guility and set up a trial date.

Now i got worried because Nadeau hasn't taken any payment from me and said if he isn't able to do anything he won't charge me but now i just got paranoid that he might come back and say , "couldn't do anything , sorry but you also lost your drivers license)

I've requested disclouse for the past few months and i still haven't received it. My defense is that I wasn't going any faster than 130 at my highest speed on my way home so i'm admitting to speeding at 130 and will pay the fine and take the dermits based on that.

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This won't help fighting the ticket but if you are ever in this situation again you can ask to Cop to see the speed that was locked in on the radar gun. If you were honestly not driving 155km then there is no way that's on his radar gun.

He was in a moving marked car that I coudn't see for a long way ahead and i doubt he can see me either. His radar could have caught anyone going that speed is how i see it and he sees a sports car come up next and assumed it was me perhaps? There were other cars behind me and in front of me at times.

[bjstare]

No flaming and legitimate advice please.
Usually a flag for incoming silliness.

Proof:


He was in a moving marked car that I coudn't see for a long way ahead and i doubt he can see me either. His radar could have caught anyone going that speed is how i see it and he sees a sports car come up next and assumed it was me perhaps? There were other cars behind me and in front of me at times.

Do you seriously think they could issue (and uphold tickets) if the radar just scans everyone on the road and officers are choosing the car they think is the fastest? :rofl:

If you were doing 130, and someone cruised by you at 155, you wouldn't be saying "oh could have been anyone", because it would be painfully obvious there was someone else right beside you going way over the limit. You'd be saying "I was doing 130, but the douchebag in the red 320i absolutely flew by me".

[Disoblige]

I've requested disclouse for the past few months and i still haven't received it.
Can you not delay the court date until you received the disclosure? They should cut you some slack on that front at least.

[revelations]

This won't help fighting the ticket but if you are ever in this situation again you can ask to Cop to see the speed that was locked in on the radar gun. If you were honestly not driving 155km then there is no way that's on his radar gun.

No, not in Canada. The police records what they saw/read in their notes and then you can request disclosure.

Thats an American thing (varies by state) as they have completely different rule of law there.

[Ca_Silvia13]

No, not in Canada. The police records what they saw/read in their notes and then you can request disclosure.

Thats an American thing (varies by state) as they have completely different rule of law there.

I've done it 3 times, once in BC and twice here.

[jabjab]

Usually a flag for incoming silliness.

Proof:


Do you seriously think they could issue (and uphold tickets) if the radar just scans everyone on the road and officers are choosing the car they think is the fastest? :rofl:

If you were doing 130, and someone cruised by you at 155, you wouldn't be saying "oh could have been anyone", because it would be painfully obvious there was someone else right beside you going way over the limit. You'd be saying "I was doing 130, but the douchebag in the red 320i absolutely flew by me".

I'm actually not too sure how it works that is why i'm asking. I have no idea how he got me anywhere near 155 and its frustrating. He did mention he got alot of complaints about sports cars speeding earlier in the day, I thought that comment was odd and I told him those sports cars aren't me so I don't know why that matters.

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Can you not delay the court date until you received the disclosure? They should cut you some slack on that front at least.

I guess I could delay it until I receive it but I also could be pissing the court system there off and thus eliminating any chance i have to get it reduced.

[revelations]

I've done it 3 times, once in BC and twice here.

You can ask and some members will show, but there is no legal obligation for the members to do so.

[rx7boi]

Read through the thread and all this does is remind me of the unfortunate fact that cops are fallible but protected by their word and reputation at our expense.

Look at all the trouble gwill went through himself just to basically get nowhere.

[jabjab]

Read through the thread and all this does is remind me of the unfortunate fact that cops are fallible but protected by their word and reputation at our expense.

Look at all the trouble gwill went through himself just to basically get nowhere.

It's really the princpal on this and that is what frustrates me is that even though i'm admitting at speeding (at a lesser speed) it almost seems like I'm being strong armed to just pay whatever speed the RCMP officers says I was doing.

[ExtraSlow]

I am confused how this could possibly lead to loss of license. Someone mentioned a GDL? Is that what's happening here?

[jabjab]

I am confused how this could possibly lead to loss of license. Someone mentioned a GDL? Is that what's happening here?

Points and a different traffic ticket defense place stated that since there are two speeds on the ticket (155 and then 149km/hr) then its plausible that if found guility the judge can find me guility on the higher speed of 155. In that case, its over 51km an hour and is grounds for a suspension.

[Ca_Silvia13]

Was this a 100 or the 110 zone in Airdrie? If it's a 100 zone how did you not get a court appearance?

[Tik-Tok]

Points and a different traffic ticket defense place stated that since there are two speeds on the ticket (155 and then 149km/hr) then its plausible that if found guility the judge can find me guility on the higher speed of 155. In that case, its over 51km an hour and is grounds for a suspension.

Speeding 51+ is only 6 demerits, and you need 15 (within 2 years)to lose your license. Unless things have changed since the last time I looked into it.

[jabjab]

Was this a 100 or the 110 zone in Airdrie? If it's a 100 zone how did you not get a court appearance?

it was a 100 zone on the out skirts of Calgary, not in Airdrie but the court is in Airdrie. I didn't get a court appearance cause the rcmp officer wrote the ticket down to 149km/hr but also put the 155 to show that he gave me a break.

[ExtraSlow]

Points and a different traffic ticket defense place stated that since there are two speeds on the ticket (155 and then 149km/hr) then its plausible that if found guility the judge can find me guility on the higher speed of 155. In that case, its over 51km an hour and is grounds for a suspension.

I don't think so. Are you talking about GDL demerit-based suspension or what? 50 over is 6 points, not a suspension.

[jabjab]

I don't think so. Are you talking about GDL demerit-based suspension or what? 50 over is 6 points, not a suspension.

Not a GDL , i've been driving for over 19 years.

[ExtraSlow]

Not a GDL , i've been driving for over 19 years.

So what the hell are you talking about?
88102

[rx7boi]

I thought it was only an automatic suspension (and also impound?) if you went double over the speed limit.

[jabjab]

So what the hell are you talking about?
88102

I'm going by what POINTS told me that if convicted of 55km over the speed limit it can carry a suspension of license if the judge wants to.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm going by what POINTS told me that if convicted of 55km over the speed limit it can carry a suspension of license if the judge wants to.

Ok, well first of all, they are hardly an unbiased source of info. They need you to be scared in order to pay for their services. I don't think you need them involved at all. If you have a clean record, like you say, and your ticket is written how you describe, you are going to be charged for 149 in a 100 zone, which is a simple 4 demerit ticket plus some money. Don't even bother arguing anything else, pay the fine, take the 4 demerits and move on with your life.

Even IF the judge for some reason wanted to go back to the higher speed, it STILL WOULDN'T mean a licence suspension, it's just a higher fine and 6 demerits. However, unless you are a total asshole, there is no reason on earth for that to happen.

Honestly, this doesn't have to be so difficult.

[jabjab]

Ok, well first of all, they are hardly an unbiased source of info. They need you to be scared in order to pay for their services. I don't think you need them involved at all. If you have a clean record, like you say, and your ticket is written how you describe, you are going to be charged for 149 in a 100 zone, which is a simple 4 demerit ticket plus some money. Don't even bother arguing anything else, pay the fine, take the 4 demerits and move on with your life.

Even IF the judge for some reason wanted to go back to the higher speed, it STILL WOULDN'T mean a licence suspension, it's just a higher fine and 6 demerits. However, unless you are a total asshole, there is no reason on earth for that to happen.

Honestly, this doesn't have to be so difficult.

Yes you're right, its not very difficult and I over complicate many things , i just feel that i'm agreeing to a speed where as the RCMP was not even correct and that bothers me. POINTS actually told me to pay it and be done with it, they didn't want to take on the ticket.

[Stuart]

Yes you're right, its not very difficult and I over complicate many things , i just feel that i'm agreeing to a speed where as the RCMP was not even correct and that bothers me. POINTS actually told me to pay it and be done with it, they didn't want to take on the ticket.

Do you have anything that can be used as evidence that you were not doing the speed listed on your ticket? If not what evidence would you be planning to present in court?

[jabjab]

Do you have anything that can be used as evidence that you were not doing the speed listed on your ticket? If not what evidence would you be planning to present in court?

I really don't have any evidence except my word and my theory. I have requested disclosure many times hoping to find something I can use but they have failed to provide it to me over the past few months. I had planned to be honest and tell them i was going 130 at my highest speed during my commute back to Calgary and not a constant speed, usually just to pass people and then i'd hover around 110. So give me a ticket for 130, not the 149

[Stuart]

That sort of a reduction request generally takes place (but not exclusively) at the first appearance, which you had the paralegal attend. Unfortunately in Airdrie the crown tends to avoid giving too many reductions for the last number of years.

[Xtrema]

Yes you're right, its not very difficult and I over complicate many things , i just feel that i'm agreeing to a speed where as the RCMP was not even correct and that bothers me. POINTS actually told me to pay it and be done with it, they didn't want to take on the ticket.

Should have taken that advice.

This is not ON/BC where 50 overs comes with 7 day suspension and impound. McIver is looking into something similar but not reality yet.

[revelations]

Is there any difference in the 149kph ticket penalty vs the 130kph you were allegedly going? If not - this entire thread is moot.

[jabjab]

Is there any difference in the 149kph ticket penalty vs the 130kph you were allegedly going? If not - this entire thread is moot.


I believe 2 points and 150 dollars difference.

[ExtraSlow]

I just feel that i'm agreeing to a speed where as the RCMP was not even correct and that bothers me.There's no prize for "being right" here. all you get is stress and hassle. You need to be zen about the situation and just pay the ticket.

[revelations]

The number of Alberta demerit points for speeding will depend on how fast you were caught driving. There are 4 speeding ticket demerit points categories :

1-15 km/hr over : 2 demerits
16-30 km/hr over : 3 demerits
31-50 km/hr over : 4 demerits
51+ km/hr over : 6 demerits

Your speeding ticket fines in Alberta are based on the exact number of km/hr over the speed limit you are clocked at. Therefore your fines are directly attributed to speed. Here is a summary chart of speeding ticket fines in Alberta :

1-15 km/hr over : $78 - $120
16-30 km/hr over : $140 - $239
31-50 km/hr over : $253 - $474
51+ km/hr over : $650 - $2000, plus the potential for a driver’s license suspension

[jabjab]

That sort of a reduction request generally takes place (but not exclusively) at the first appearance, which you had the paralegal attend. Unfortunately in Airdrie the crown tends to avoid giving too many reductions for the last number of years.

Which explains why they didn't budge at all vs in Calgary I'm sure I would have gotten some sort of reduction, especially given my record. I submitted my 10 year abstract to the paralegal as well and they still didn't care of my clean record

[Doozer]

My defense is that I wasn't going any faster than 130 at my highest speed on my way home so i'm admitting to speeding at 130 and will pay the fine and take the dermits based on that.


I'm not sure you're clear on what a defense is, but that's not it. That's your opinion, preference. Murderers don't get to say "I was with him earlier when we were drinking, but I didn't kill him so I'll just pay the fine for littering". A defense outlines how and why you couldn't have been doing what you're accused of. You don't have that, so your best option was, and still is, pay the ticket and move along.

It sounds too much like your biggest fear is losing your license, yet when you're offered an option to pay and move on, you get greedy and want to pay LESS.

Pay it, keep your ability to drive intact, be happy that you now have a dashcam for next time, and consider it a lesson learned.

[Disoblige]

I'm actually not too sure how it works that is why i'm asking. I have no idea how he got me anywhere near 155 and its frustrating. He did mention he got alot of complaints about sports cars speeding earlier in the day, I thought that comment was odd and I told him those sports cars aren't me so I don't know why that matters.

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I guess I could delay it until I receive it but I also could be pissing the court system there off and thus eliminating any chance i have to get it reduced.
How would you be pissing off the court system there by pushing the court date? Your worries here are unwarranted.


Not a GDL , i've been driving for over 19 years.
You can still be GDL no matter how long you've been driving. It doesn't go away with experience, you still need to get your full license.





Pay it, keep your ability to drive intact, be happy that you now have a dashcam for next time, and consider it a lesson learned.
Or just get a radar detector for highway driving.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

You can still be GDL no matter how long you've been driving. It doesn't go away with experience, you still need to get your full license.


I think he means he's been driving since before GDL was implemented.

[?????]

What kind of sports car?

[jabjab]

I'm not sure you're clear on what a defense is, but that's not it. That's your opinion, preference. Murderers don't get to say "I was with him earlier when we were drinking, but I didn't kill him so I'll just pay the fine for littering". A defense outlines how and why you couldn't have been doing what you're accused of. You don't have that, so your best option was, and still is, pay the ticket and move along.

It sounds too much like your biggest fear is losing your license, yet when you're offered an option to pay and move on, you get greedy and want to pay LESS.

Pay it, keep your ability to drive intact, be happy that you now have a dashcam for next time, and consider it a lesson learned.

I don't look at it as greedy, I look at it as it being wrong to accuse someone of a speed that they were not doing just because they can. I am leaning towards just paying the ticket and not having this linger on but I just don't want the 4 points on my record and possible effecting my good insurance rates.

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How would you be pissing off the court system there by pushing the court date? Your worries here are unwarranted.


You can still be GDL no matter how long you've been driving. It doesn't go away with experience, you still need to get your full license.



Or just get a radar detector for highway driving.

Small courts are a little different than larger courts so if a judge is having a bad day, they can take it out on someone. They have a range of decision they can make and you catch one in a bad mood then you get the worst penalty.

[triplep]

Just a thought, not sure it would work, but did you have any GPS devices in the car? I.e. navigation etc? Wasn't there something back in the day that you could get this data from the GPS device and they pretty much track everything including how fast you were going to show the cop's that you weren't traveling the suggested speed limit?

At least it would be something more than just saying I was only going 130km/h...

[gwill]

if you think the cop lied you have an uphill battle to prove. Of which during court you wont stand a chance. Trust me I'm all for holding cops accountable.

I went out and bought a dash cam the first time i was wronged by police during a traffic stop. I would suggest you invest in a camera from here and take this as a lesson learned.

In the end theres a few scenarios that will happen. I could see the prosecutor at your trial agreeing to take your ticket down to the 130 speed but its going to cost you a half a days work. If he doesnt and it goes to trial you may or may not get to fight it until the afternoon and all that time will have been spent for what??

No ones going to admit they over clocked your speed. You wont be able to prove this in court as well. So the question is what are you hoping for? No matter what you do you'll have demerit points on your record.

Overall I think your confused and dont know what you want. You've vented, everyone's listened. Now go buy a dash cam in case this happens again!

[rx7boi]

/thread.

gwill has summed it up succinctly.

[jabjab]

if you think the cop lied you have an uphill battle to prove. Of which during court you wont stand a chance. Trust me I'm all for holding cops accountable.

I went out and bought a dash cam the first time i was wronged by police during a traffic stop. I would suggest you invest in a camera from here and take this as a lesson learned.

In the end theres a few scenarios that will happen. I could see the prosecutor at your trial agreeing to take your ticket down to the 130 speed but its going to cost you a half a days work. If he doesnt and it goes to trial you may or may not get to fight it until the afternoon and all that time will have been spent for what??

No ones going to admit they over clocked your speed. You wont be able to prove this in court as well. So the question is what are you hoping for? No matter what you do you'll have demerit points on your record.

Overall I think your confused and dont know what you want. You've vented, everyone's listened. Now go buy a dash cam in case this happens again!

I've bought a dash cam one week after this happened and its in my car now, so i've learned a lesson. I've also purchased a radar detector for long highway trips. What I want is to pay the fine and take the dermits on the actual speed I was guility of but if it comes at chance of getting charged for a higher offense I'd just swallow the pill.

[Crazyjoker77]

Sucks but its overwhelmingly the same advice throughout the thread.

your insurance is going to go up. Ins Co. don't go by demerits. They simply classify it as a minor or major moving violation which would be no difference between 130km and 149km. A suspension is a big bad mark but your really not at risk of one if you have a clean driving record worst case is your at 6/15 demerits (unless of course you really piss the judge off as he does have the option to reinstate the original speed)

Cop already gave you a break even if you don't think so. For 50 over he would of had the option to impound your car for a day but he decided not to.

Cops marking a ticket down to a lesser charge is a super old trick that they've been doing for ages. Theres no way a judge is going to believe your story i was only going 130 when its basically your word against his and he sees he already wrote the ticket at a lesser speed. You have no proof and judges don't want a bunch of excuses. Airdrie's known for not being very forgiving.

There is no point in fighting this. Even taking it to points or your paralegal was pointless as their cost is probably close to the cost difference between the 130 and 149 tickets.

[jabjab]

Alright, advice noted. I'm going to go online now and pay the ticket. It's really not looking like I'll have much success and its a live and learn lesson.