Toxic workplace culture - bullying and harrassment

[rx7boi]

I thought I'd poll our Beyonders on this topic. Having worked with alot of clients who experienced bullying or harassment in the military and RCMP, as well as having seen/faced these challenges myself in the workplace, just wanted to see if any of you guys had stories to share about toxic work cultures, whether it's with managers or otherwise.

It's a huge impact to people's physical and mental wellbeing and unfortunately, literature shows that not only are organizations fairly shoddy at sniffing out bad managers, they are also frequently willing to turn a blind eye to it as long as things are still rolling along as usual.

Doesn't have to be just managers, I just think that as influential persons in the workplace they naturally have more ability to engage in these types of behaviours with less chance of repercussion.

[BavarianBeast]

It's pretty bad in construction, particularly between the superintendents and engineers/coordinators.

If you don't have the grit to be called names, teased or belittled in junior and intermediate roles - probably not the industry for you. Not that I agree with it, but it seems to be the way things are across several companies I've worked with.

[Ca_Silvia13]

It's pretty bad in construction, particularly between the superintendents and engineers/coordinators.

If you don't have the grit to be called names, teased or belittled in junior and intermediate roles - probably not the industry for you. Not that I agree with it, but it seems to be the way things are across several companies I've worked with.

I actually had this exact same conversation this week, comparing Construction to O&G. Yelling at people to get stuff done is very much common practice in construction. It's gotten slightly better over the years but it is still very prevalent on job sites.

[revelations]

Toxicity happens in all industries, but some are way worse than others. Many people also confuse non PC culture with 'toxicity', which is not the same at all.

[nissanK]

I had issues in a previous position with some admin assistant talking to me trying to be 'one of the guys'.

She saw my resume and liked the formatting so much she actually responded with "SPLOOSH" like she actually wet her panties. She would be in meetings with senior execs and make comments like "Well fuck me sideways." Shit that would get a guy #MeToo' ed instantly. Needless to say, I made official complaints about it and they responded with 'Oh yeah she's just like that.' I made sure to backup emails and everything related in case shit went south or I got canned for no good reason.

I also had instances of Sales guys losing their shit when I spoke directly with their customers.

[rx7boi]

It's pretty bad in construction, particularly between the superintendents and engineers/coordinators.

If you don't have the grit to be called names, teased or belittled in junior and intermediate roles - probably not the industry for you. Not that I agree with it, but it seems to be the way things are across several companies I've worked with.

For sure. My philosophy is that it's unfortunate but we also live somewhere called the real world where there's a myriad of personalities, habits, and motivations.

Protections aren't always available even if it relates to basic rights like dignity and respect. Bottom line is you can't force people to respect you but you can temper your resiliency and come out stronger in any environment.

I've seen alot of friends and colleagues burn out over the years and leave out of frustration, particularly where there's a power differential. Bad managers will do anything from play favorites to withhold opportunities to outright being disrespectful, and overall impact the organizational bottom line at the expense of serving their own ego. Surprisingly, HR doesn't give a shit but it's also because victims don't know how to fight back effectively.

[hampstor]

For companies that are large enough to have written company values, if the word "respect" doesn't appear on a list of company values, I'd question how the leaders treat employees, as it really comes from the top.

An IT SVP/CIO for a major energy company I used to work for had a reputation for calling people names/belittling people to make things happen. It created a culture of fear. When the new COO took over, that particular individual was walked out. I heard recently that that COO (who is now the CEO) without using names, referred to that individual in a recent company wide town hall about harassment in the workplace, and how the ethics hotline used to be full of complaints about that particular individual.

My personal exp with workplace bullying was at said company above... I had a Director cut me off during a meeting and dismissed my recommendation. The room was full of GMs and Directors who quickly put him in his place with .... "Your employee badge has a value on it you need to be refreshed about: Respect. Being our best. Giving our best. ". It was then reported up to the VP level and HR - they did not mess around and took it seriously. 10/10 in how that company deals with bullying (at least in my case).

[revelations]

I had an interesting time at my first new job in my career, downtown. Turns out the manager was a the micromanager of micromanagers. She was good at her job but clearly OCD - also highly intelligent and educated.

I was on probation of course, so I kept quiet about the, literally verbal abuse, daily. I was intruding in HER department and that Im subpar and I should be moved into filing or something demeaning, was the basic attitude. She was making stuff up to complain about.

I started, slowly collecting evidence (emails, documents) - after 3 months and 1 day (probation over), I approached HR (they actually cared) with these issues - and while they were aware of past problems with this person, I was the only one to make it official.

She got called into the Presidents' office and was definitely offended. We had an HR meeting and I laid out my evidence of mistreatment and she was completely owned - I mean stonewalled, like this is 100% your problem.

I asked for a transfer and got a better position and an immediate raise.

[rx7boi]

hampstor

That sounds absolutely amazing. Having others who are lateral to the toxic individual and standing up for the values is definitely an advantage. I wish that happens for more people.

These toxic individuals sometimes have narcissistic personalities, are intelligent, and have very good impression management skills so they tend to engage in these behaviours behind closed doors or only when superiors aren't around.

[r3ccOs]

Lets put it this way, many O&Gs are still vintage style firms with 70's & 80's "outcome" driven mentalities with only tall white male patriarchy in Senior Leadership... who use Resource economic tides to drive a culture of fear uncertainty and doubt.

Handshake and sweetheart deals

Then when they are survey'd low for Employee Engagement... they bomb, then go out and pay for a better grade (true story) - "what place would you like to be this year out of top 20 employers"?

[suntan]

You can sue the company for workplace bullying. That alone wakes up a lot of companies.

[zieg]

You can sue the company for workplace bullying. That alone wakes up a lot of companies.

The problem is the good ones make it hard to build a case, and microaggressions alone won't get you far. Especially when everyone knows they are in a precarious position and the company will count on you choosing to feel lucky you have a job over choosing to rock the boat. And once they get away with one thing they'll come up with other ways to fuck you.

[cycosis]

I've left two companies in the past 24 months due to toxicity and bullying. The most recent was a landscape construction company. Small family biz. Absolutely no oversight or consequences for the young family members. Nepotism at its finest. The employee turn there was nuts due to the environment. Its the only company I just walked out on in my career. Money just isn't worth if you're miserable every day and ownership doesn't want to make any changes.

[speedog]

In the last large corporation I worked for, the toxicity started right at the top. That person could have their arm around you for a photo op while you could feel their other hand digging a knife into your back. The toxicity in that corporation was a large part of why I resigned after 26.5 years, probably one of the best choices I ever did for my health and mental well being.

[ShermanEF9]

My last company was so toxic. Finger pointing within management, hiring people not right for the job, but are a drinking buddy of the VPs. Also our group (technical group) would not be considered for any promotion just based on what we started as. I also took a lot of abuse from many project managers and upper management throughout my career there. leaving was the best feeling.

[finboy]

When I first started my career I was in an accounts payable role which seems to attract the WORST managers as the job sucks but still has to get done. The manager was a total cow who loved nepotism, bullying, etc. And if it was a smaller year on bonuses, would track employee Internet use, coffee break time, etc for months to have an excuse to shift pay to her favourite employees. It prompted me to find a better job, go back to school and never get stuck in a role like that again.

After I left, she ended up dying of a routine illness due to her poor general health, I’m not one to believe in karma but the world gets things right once in a while.

[littledan]

I was a victim of a toxic mid-level manager at the City of Edmonton. I finally couldn't take it anymore and resigned my position, moved into the private sector. This lady was a certified nutcase. She would assign you as a "project manager" but then micromanage the project and stall it out causing it to be a complete failure. Then she would blame you for the failed project. She did this on one of my projects where we had a sole source agreement with a contractor. She refused to green light any of the work because the estimates were "too expensive" then threw me under the bus when the director asked why basically no field construction had been done. She held my raises hostage by giving me a poor yearly review but then only gave it verbally and refused to put it in writing. That was the last straw for me. Went to HR and they informed me that she was under investigation that went nowhere and she is still working there. Conveniently the sole source contract has gone tits up and her perferred vendor is getting multi-millions in construction and maintenance work even though they were operating out of a residential garage. You cant make this shit up. After I left she installed a spy cam in the open concept office to spy on her subordinates without their knowledge. Someone found it and reported her. She's still working there in the same role...

[Disoblige]

hampstor
These toxic individuals sometimes have narcissistic personalities, are intelligent, and have very good impression management skills so they tend to engage in these behaviours behind closed doors or only when superiors aren't around.
Yup. And it is also the reason why it is so difficult to get these people to leave. Very manipulative behavior that is noticed on ground level and creates a toxic environment for everyone. You know those people that almost everyone hates once they know who they really are but yet they're still around? Yeah that person.

Interesting to hear these stories, but not surprised. As the common saying goes: Most people leave their job not because of the company itself, but their managers or direct reports.

[nickyh]

It's a lot like the frog in hot water analogy.
Throw the frog into boiling water and it'll GTFO. Turn up the heat ever so slightly and it will slowly boil, and die.

I was a place like that for 8 years. Great in the beginning and ever so slowly turned more and more toxic. By the time I left, i walked into the office every with anxiety.
I would hear the one senior manager typing an email (angry typer) and literally would count to 5 to see if I was "it". It was like he had a day where you were his targer, then someone else would disagree wth him and they would be it'. We called it "whack-a-mole" day; who was going to be the dummy for the day. That's when someone cranked the heat up in the pot of boiling water. the new manager came in like a bulldozer.

Even though you could feel the culture changing, I still stuck it out, by year 6 i wasn't unhappy but didn't love being there. What made me go in each day was I loved what i did. I would occasionally get requests on LinkedIn about opportunities but would not act on them.
More and more work piled on and by the time i left I was working weekends and 7-7 everyday, plus having to answer emails at 10pm (and being thrown under the bus in a group distributed email); plus having the new mirco-manager, and no support from my direct manager or the staff under me; then it was time to throw in the towel. The general message when I left on the floor was "I was unable to change how i worked"

My manager i reported to was a formal complaint nightmare waiting to happen, but everyone dismissed his behavior as "typical". He would make sexual jokes, racist jokes, and went so far to slur someone (I then complained about that and the highers up told certain groups that there were people who were sensitive to certain language). so the tone at the top allowed this.
I was so embarrassed when we had summer students, they thought the way he acted was awesome and they laughed - but this is not how normal business operates (at least I hope not).

So when this job came knocking on my door, I took it.
Where I landed, i wouldn't say the work culture is toxic but there in an underlying ick. Not all parts of the company are like this, the dept where I am for sure.

[suntan]

The problem is the good ones make it hard to build a case, and microaggressions alone won't get you far. Especially when everyone knows they are in a precarious position and the company will count on you choosing to feel lucky you have a job over choosing to rock the boat. And once they get away with one thing they'll come up with other ways to fuck you.

I dunno, you have two years to file a claim, the last thing a company wants is an asshole bully testifying, they'll just pay you out.

[Antonito]

It's pretty bad in construction, particularly between the superintendents and engineers/coordinators.

If you don't have the grit to be called names, teased or belittled in junior and intermediate roles - probably not the industry for you. Not that I agree with it, but it seems to be the way things are across several companies I've worked with. Construction is a whole other animal than office jobs. Way more upfront blatant hostility but also it gets resolved faster. At my first office job after years of construction, my manager came up and told me that my work was sloppy and I needed to perform better. Sounded about right, but my coworker started whispering to me like "hey man are you ok? that was pretty brutal" Really? Last year in a trade meeting a superintendent threw his phone at me. His landline phone.

The flipside of that is that because you can't just tell someone you'll meet them outside, it can be years of passive aggressive bullshit, which I find way worse. The only job I've ever quit on bad terms was where the owner was an overbearing micromanager who would slide little jabs in to everything. Turnover was crazy there because of him, so they had me sign a 2 year contract and after a year I told them to sue me and left. Should have known the contract for a salaried full time position was a red flag

[rx7boi]

I'm also interested in those who were the recipient of nepotism or at the very least, favour and if you weren't the recipient, how you decided to interact with coworkers who were.

We have a good amount of individuals who have major incentive to stay on the boss' good side for the perks. It became a challenge when all of this toxic culture came up to the surface and people tried to fight back. Unfortunately, some people simply don't want to rock the boat, others are afraid of retribution, no one wants to be a martyr, and then you have the "nepotees" who attest that it's actually not that bad here and it's just a couple of whiners.

I won't say it's always the employee's fault. We definitely have some don't care about the bullying as long as they get their cake but alot of new staff don't know any better. They think this is a great new job where the boss empowers them with responsibility, training/travel opportunities, various perks. Meanwhile, those loyal individuals with tenure and experience are diminished and ignored for their contributions for years.

Since the boss merely uses work resources to satisfy their ego, it's not really about employee investment. If you get on the bad side, consider all these "perks" revoked

I added a poll to the thread as well. I'm glad to hear that many of you have moved on to greener pastures.

[Rat Fink]

.

[revelations]

I think about those horrible jobs that I (and many) have had and now I look back at them as character builders - of course there is a limit to how much horseshit one can take - I was pretty close to jumping out a window at one point, so obviously that line of work had to stop (aircraft industry).

[bjstare]

I think about those horrible jobs that I (and many) have had and now I look back at them as character builders .

This is also my viewpoint. I've worked for shitty companies before... fortunately my current company is great, but I still have to work with difficult clients. My satisfaction and motivation comes down to how I frame it for myself. Shitty experiences and stressful days are just an opportunity to build valuable skills and gain wisdom for the future.

The other thought in my head when reading this: beyond has a bunch of snowflakes coming out of the woodwork. If you don't like your job, leave. If there's no jobs here, go somewhere that has them. Adapt. Re-skill. I'm not saying these things are easy, in some cases may be very difficult... nothing is impossible though. Or maybe I should stop, because my privilege is showing...

I guess workplace environment is the one soft spot we have in this online community haha. Somehow the term "microaggression" was used and no one got flamed for it. Very progressive of you all, well done.

[rx7boi]

To be fair, you've not qualified your own experiences and how they were shitty, so I think you are correct in that your privilege may be peeking out particularly if you're going to undermine the other experiences in this thread haha.

That said, I would echo your sentiments about character building. Leaving a toxic boss in one workplace is never a guarantee that you won't encounter another one. People like that are out there in the world by the millions so the only thing you can control is to temper your own resiliency and come out stronger from this sort of adversity.

Retroactively, I think I could have added more detail and options to the poll. I don't think it's fair to just have "Leave" as its own category because whether you stay or leave, you still have the opportunity to come out stronger, and often times people will find ways to tough it out until new opportunities come their way.

[nicknolte]

[snip]

In my experiences I have found bullies thrive on people who passively take the abuse. No job is worth that. Fight fire with fire. In my experiences, bullies are typically people who have nothing going for them in their personal lives outside of their career or job title. They are jokes. Nothing sets them inline more than face to face talks where you call them out on their bullshit. If that doesn’t work you include the bully on conversations with their bosses in ways that make light of the bullshit they are pulling. Keep an accurate log of all the points that have made your role fail as a result of that jackass and use it like a nuke with their bosses, but always have a list of credible solutions to the problems you are addressing. If a workplace can’t be fixed for you beyond that, i think you should consider finding a new place to work as toxic environments really aren’t worth the negative effect on your personal well being.

I've found that if you try talking to them, they'll just double down on doing what they do... why would a narcissistic asshole think that they're in the wrong...?


I've had two ultra-toxic, ultra-micromanager supervisors my career. One of the managers had seven resignations (on a team of nine underlings/analysts) in a 12 month span. The other manager had two HR complaints against him, but the Director/VP really, really liked him and gave him a different "less snowflake" team to supervise (i.e. the team that I was on). Left both jobs in short-order for greener pastures. It's only been a few years, but both are still with the same company in the same role doing the same bullshit running high turnover teams.

IMO, karma doesn't get them in the end... all you can do is leave and hope the next place is better