Female Enthusiasts Discussions (split)

[sputnik]

This is much like the IT industry...

Everyone tries to get women into the IT industry because there is a "shortage" of females... so they have special programs and courses designed for women... but in the end... women for the most part just arent interested and remain a minority.

This has nothing to do with the industry being male dominated or the products being targetted for males.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by sputnik
This is much like the IT industry...

Everyone tries to get women into the IT industry because there is a "shortage" of females... so they have special programs and courses designed for women... but in the end... women for the most part just arent interested and remain a minority.

This has nothing to do with the industry being male dominated or the products being targetted for males.
Not true, most girls are initimidated by the males because they DO treat women SOOO differently, often they are completely ignored or treated like girls who are "just there for the men" (as was already said in this thread :rolleyes: ) There are female enthusiasts out there, they just dont get vocal about it cause they do get alot of shit for being there. If you dont think so, look around at the industry...girls are draped all over cars, signing posters, posing for pictures, walking around as their boyfriend's little trophy prize, ect. This is the role men (and the industry) expect girls to fill so when they aren't doing that and they are actually INTO the scene, it gets quite a different reaction.

[girlRACER]

^^I agree to some extent. For example, when girlieRacer posted pics of her cars she got insulted left, center, and right which I didn't think was right since there are so little girls who are car enthusiasts. It was not encouraging. I guess SOME guys feel threatened when a girl has more money put into their car than theirs that they feel like they have to criticize it.

At the same time, the girls that pose on cars CHOOSE to do it themselves. They don't do it b/c they feel intimidated by guys. Half of them are skanks looking for attention (some are classy though) and enter car shows so they can be called a "model", in their opinion some glamourous title, since they could never be a model in real life. And they don't have a clue about cars to begin with.

[ZorroAMG]

I think it's hott like a baked potato when women are into cars....

[Melinda]

Originally posted by girlRACER
At the same time, the girls that pose on cars CHOOSE to do it themselves. They don't do it b/c they feel intimidated by guys. Half of them are skanks looking for attention (some are classy though) and enter car shows so they can be called a "model", in their opinion some glamourous title, since they could never be a model in real life. And they don't have a clue about cars to begin with.
Oh no Jackie I completely agree with you there. I'm not disputing that they choose to do that (and yes, 99% of the time know nothing about cars) but what I'm saying is women who are thinking about getting into the scene see all this and are intimidated cause they think this is the only place for women..there isnt a large awareness about female involvement in the scene

[rice_eater]

well how many girls would actually do work on a car? i'm sorry but i'm yet to see too many girls doing much more than showing up to the shop, busting out the credit card and then pick up the car once the work is done :dunno: A lot of girls simply dont care about cars, no matter what you say. Try going on a date and start blabbing about the mods on your car...we'll see how long she stays interested :)

[speedymd]

hey i'm a girl and love racing my car. i have the need for speed and could care less what guys think of that. whether its good or nasty. let me know what you crazy girls are up to.

[Khyron]

And female or not, that hot pink car is so different, it would have been insulted (and complimented) sooner or later regardless of the owner being male or not. Look at how many male J-body owners get shit on. I also recall quite a bit of support for the pink owner as well. :D

Whether due to genetics or society, males are predisposed to certain things, females to others. It's not a rule, but statistically it happens.

Khyron

[B20EF]

Half of them are skanks looking for attention (some are classy though) and enter car shows so they can be called a "model", in their opinion some glamourous title, since they could never be a model in real life. And they don't have a clue about cars to begin with.

I know some skanks with nice cars, do you want them on the website for enthusiasts? at least they'll look good with their rides.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by B20EF
I know some skanks with nice cars, do you want them on the website for enthusiasts? at least they'll look good with their rides.
Careful man, till you know what people look like on this site, tread lightly. GirlRACER happens to be a very attractive girl who looks good with her nice car.

She wasnt commenting that pretty girls are bad, she was making a statement about some girls and their motives for being at the shows and in the scene and what not

[B20EF]

I'm just talking about the project they want to put together, I know some chicks with nice cars but you know, they're skanks

[rage2]

Originally posted by rice_eater
well how many girls would actually do work on a car? i'm sorry but i'm yet to see too many girls doing much more than showing up to the shop, busting out the credit card and then pick up the car once the work is done :dunno:
I don't do any work on my car. I don't even know how to change my own oil. I pay to get things done. I do exactly what you described (except I'm not a chick). Does that make me less of an enthusiast?

[B20EF]

yes it does

[rage2]

Originally posted by B20EF
yes it does
Right... that means I'm just an idiot for paying and running beyond out of my own time and expenses for nothing. Moron.

[B20EF]

so you don't know how to change your oil, and you don't think that makes you a little less of an enthusiast

[sputnik]

Originally posted by B20EF
yes it does

noob entertainment at its finest...

all things aside... there are many different types of car enthusiasts... some people want:

- a fast car
- a show car
- a good handling car
- a good looking car
- a car with the latest and trendiest bodykit
- a "drift" car (because they think its cool)
- a "bling" car

and some people want a combonation of the above... it really doesnt matter if you do the work or not... its the level of obsession.

some people just float around and do whatever everyone else is without giving a second thought about it...

some people (like many of us here) spend hours researching everything they can about their cars and following the latest technology and the newest mods... and only put (what they believe to be) the best parts on their cars.

its that level of obsession that is lacking in the female community that many males can relate with.

personally i am more interested with the techonology and fine details when talking about cars... i could care less about colour combonations, the latest taillights, this wing or that wing, or what wheels look nicer...

so if someone (male or female) comes up to me talking about what colour their car is or asking about their interior mods... i could care less and would probably brush them off (in terms of talking about cars anyways).

[sputnik]

Oh great... make me the "instigator" of this thread :tongue:

Jeff and Zorro might take offence to me being the shit disturber instead of them :tongue:

[rage2]

Originally posted by B20EF
so you don't know how to change your oil, and you don't think that makes you a little less of an enthusiast
I'm an IT geek. I'm clumsy with tools. I make up for my mechanical weakness in other ways. Need me to list 'em all out?

[sputnik]

And I am an IT geek that happens to be mechanically inclined...

However I am without a garage right now and dont have a place for a project car. It doesnt mean I cant talk shop with the best of them even if I dont have a car to show (for now).

Does that make me less of an enthusiast?

[B20EF]

ok you guys proved your points, your both enthusiasts, didn't mean to really offend anybody

[VWbloke]

Originally posted by B20EF
so you don't know how to change your oil, and you don't think that makes you a little less of an enthusiast

I fail to see the correlation between mechanical know-how and being a car enthusiast. To put things into perspective for you think of this analogy:

Seeing as you're obviously a shmuck, lacking any and all social skills, you've probably never had sex. But that isn't to say you're less of a sex enthusiast. Virgin.

[CRXguy]

Originally posted by VWbloke


Seeing as you're obviously a shmuck, lacking any and all social skills, you've probably never had sex. But that isn't to say you're less of a sex enthusiast. Virgin.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[hjr]

i know some rally guys who can bairly change a wheel if its nessisary yet they are enthusiasts are they not? I am personally inclinced to be mechanical (father was a mechanic) but that doenst make me more of an 'enthusiast' than others (i can just do it cheaper! :D )

[Akagi Redsuns]

There is a difference between getting a turbo kit installed by someone else, but understanding what is taking place and being part of the design, implementation and tunning phase...... versus having it installed by someone and not caring one thing about it until you get the keys back for the car and handed your check over.

See it all the time with "tuned" cars with the owner having NO CLUE what was done to it. Injectors, piggybacks, guages, sensor, turbo, intercooler, boost pressure.....etc.... no clue about it at all.

Other times I have met guys with cars done by shops, but yet know exactly what was installed, what problems they ran into and basically know thier car inside out, but yet not turned one wrench on it. That is also a enthusiast, but yet I have more respect for the guy that has done most of the work....even though I know I could never have the time or patience for that sort of work but have the same passion for cars and speed as them.

[serusnak]

mm. Do any of you know any women who are in the trades, (name any, mechanic, welder, autobody, construction?) I don't quite see myself obsessing over cars like a hard core enthusiast but I do know how some parts of a car works, and I can troubleshoot some problems. I've worked in a mechanic's shop and a detailing shop, now I'm on my way to get my j ticket in autobody. I don't claim to know everything there is about cars, but I'm learning, and one should be saisified with that. People shouldn't be afraid (male or female) to ask questions about cars.

My friend recently bought a truck for herself and people come up to her boyfriend and ask him about her truck, "Nice truck you have, how much did you buy it for?" I wasn't too impressed with that.

[DJ Lazy]

Car Enthusiasts can be defined in alot of different ways. Some of them LOVE working on cars but can't drive worth shit, some can drive amazingly, but don't know the difference between gas and break pedal. Some ppl just like to see new and innovative ideas in car, but don't know how it all works, while some people can pull an entire engine apart and put it back together...

Me personally, I know a BIT about engines and car, not alot, so I don't get into any of the threads on beyond that are technically oriented cuz I know that my points are either already stated, or I will just say something wrong and get flamed.. haha :tongue: but I still enjoy learning about cars, and the pure adrenline I get from driving...

Its all relative... :)

[max_boost]

I hear that argument quite often, because you don't do your own mods, you are not a 'REAL' car enthusiast.....LOL

Like who gives a shit really, there will always be skeptics out there. I can say that I've never done any major mods on my own for my car, but I'm still a fanatic. Frankly, I don't have time to spend hours in a garage trying to figure out a suspension install, I spend my time making lots of bling so I can tune my car with top notch parts. Anyway, pointless in arguing, people might not respect you cause you didn't install your own parts, but they have to respect one thing, I drive a nicer car than you.:rofl: :poosie:

[sexualbanana]

Lazy said it best I think. There are different types of enthusiasts. Some are hands on, some are knowledge, and some are neither.

I can change my own oil and can do some of the minor stuff, so I guess that makes me an enthusiast by B20's standards. But what I can can't do is do anything major and identify a lot of engine parts. Does that make me any less of a car enthusiast?

Being a car enthusiast does not mean being a mechanic or know it all.l Being a car enthusiast means, like the term says, being enthusiastic about cars. Whether you know how to drive or not is irrelevant.

[Khyron]

Haha I was on the receiving end today - my wife needs a desk for her sewing machine, so I was looking for one of those ones that folds the machine inside the desk when not in use. Went to a big sewing shop - was the only guy among at least 25 women. They're all giving me the eye like "wtf is he doing here" and 3 sales ladies came up and were asking me if I was lost (no shit) etc. I can see how a girl walking into a mostly male meet/club might feel a tad awkward too. :D

Khyron

[Girlie_racer]

well i am a girl... and i can change oil, a tire, installed pretty much everything under the hood my self... and presently redoing my interior all on my own. So not all girls drop there cars off with a credit card and pick it up when it's done :) i would rather take pride in doing it my self.

[speedymd]

im a girl as well, i race in summer and winter, i love driving fast and know how to talk car talk, it doesn't mean im all into mods and what the car looks like. i think cars should be driven hard like there made for, not always to just sit pretty! but i guess it all depends what your into. to be classified as a car enthusiast or not is a pretty broad thing to say. i think we all must be in one way or another if we're on this forum!!:guns:

[three.eighteen.]

if the case is to be fair...speedymd you sound like you are just the same as all the guy idiots racing theyre stock tegs with fart cans up and down the streets of calgary reagardless of conditions

[speedymd]

well let me correct myself i race on the track summer and winter and on the street well there too many risk to do the same. it doesn't mean when there's a good exit ramp and no traffic i'm not going to make the car do its finist!!:burnout:
aswell my integra is stock, and if i we're in the need for more juice, i'd get a type r and still would not make it sound like the muffler needs to be replaced! there are much more valiable mods to be had, then intake.

[three.eighteen.]

hey at least she doesnt get all defensive like the male-idiots...and to the empty offramp thing :thumbsup: the yellow speed limit on there is just a suggestion ;)

[TheBiz]

Originally posted by speedymd
im a girl as well, i race in summer and winter, i love driving fast and know how to talk car talk, it doesn't mean im all into mods and what the car looks like. i think cars should be driven hard like there made for, not always to just sit pretty! but i guess it all depends what your into. to be classified as a car enthusiast or not is a pretty broad thing to say. i think we all must be in one way or another if we're on this forum!!:guns:

LMAO, I know this girl, She basicly runs the Street races, seriously,

I know you guys are probly gona hate on me cause you think i'm being a schovenist and singling her out, But I'm not, I just can't stand to see some one lie so blatently, espicially to fit in.

About the discusion about being a car enthusiast, I think you can be more of a car entusiast if you actually do that work yourself, I've worked in a couple shops i'm sure you guys frequent, and I can tell you, We treat your cars like shit, compared to what I treat my car like.

If you do any one of the following such as, love your car, get your car modified, know about your car, race your car, then you are infact an enthusiast, But not doing the work on your car is like not rocking and cuddeling with your new born child, or not teaching them the facts of life, sure you still love them, but it's not the same.

so with cars, You can still be an entusiast, but basicly not on the same level. IMO.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by speedymd
well let me correct myself i race on the track summer and winter
There's winter racing at Race city? :dunno:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Melinda
There's winter racing at Race city? :dunno:
Yea, there's winter autox in the parking lot. It's run by the CSCC.

[speedracer]

CSCC Winter AutoX (http://cscc.speedracer.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=874)

[sputnik]

Originally posted by TheBiz

She basicly runs the Street races, seriously,


Would that make her the "President" of the "F&F Losers" club?

[speedymd]

we'll for somebody who told me i'm lying, you sure make asumptions!guns: i don''t run any kind of street racing buddy, i race at race city for fun, experience, and lets not forget because i'm a car enthusiast! and when i say drive your car hard, if your not a complete idiot you should know the limits of your car and most imports that mantained properly can take it! fords now thats a different story !:thumbsdow

[speedracer]

Originally posted by TheBiz
LMAO, I know this girl, She basicly runs the Street races, seriously,


Do you? Or are you just an ass :bullshit:


Originally posted by TheBiz

I know you guys are probly gona hate on me cause you think i'm being a schovenist and singling her out, But I'm not, I just can't stand to see some one lie so blatently, espicially to fit in.

And what do you know?Or is it just easy to make things up about a person. I see lots of apologies when (more like if) you come out to the track and bump into Speedydm.


Originally posted by sputnik


Would that make her the "President" of the "F&F Losers" club?
No where does speedydm mention about street racing - But I guess taht where you fit in.
Or is that the only kind of racing that you know of...

[Weapon_R]

Some of you people need to do some research on the exact definition of an enthusiast. Perhaps expanding your vocabulary will help arm you in your pursuit in not sounding like a dumbass.


Here you go.

An enthusiast is:

One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit:

A zealot; a fanatic.
Source: www.dictionary.com


There is nothing in that definition that specifies that an enthusiast must attribute their interest in a particular subject with specific knowledge of that subject.

Using cars as a perfect example, I do not need to know how to fix cars to have a particular interest in them. I didn't paint my car, but unfortunately that makes me less of an enthusiast than the person who does all of his/her own work? Hardly.

[Toms-Celica]

I think girls in the car community should be taken care of and treated the same. It is rare to have girls into cars and we should encourage them, hopefully they will have kids and teach the kids that cars are more than just a device to get from 'Part A' to 'Part B'. No but really...

Girls like CelicaGirl, Melinda, and girlRACER are some true idols, it takes some balls to get into a hobby that men mostly run.

[TheBiz]

Originally posted by rage2

I don't do any work on my car. I don't even know how to change my own oil. I pay to get things done. I do exactly what you described (except I'm not a chick). Does that make me less of an enthusiast?

I do all the work on my car, I know how to change my own oil, I don't pay to get things done. I don't do exactly what you described(neither do chicks) Does that make me MORE of an enthusiast?

ther are two sides to everything.

[kenny]

You dont need to be mechanically inclined to be a car enthusiast.... a true car enthusiast by my definition will have car posters on their walls, car magazines in their washroom or bedroom, read about cars, talk about cars, etc etc. Basically everyone on beyond would be considered a car enthusiast because you signed up on here to discuss cars with other car enthusiasts from around the world.

A guy could know how to fix every make of car out there, great with tools, great at diagnosing problems with cars and be a crazy good mechanic. If he absolutely hates cars, and ONLY does what he does to pay the bills, then in my mind he would not be a car enthusiast. ("he" is just an example).

As for female enthusiasts, I don't think they should be treated differently just because they are females. We shouldn't go out of our way to protect them because they are in a mainly male dominated hobby. If a guy drives a car with 6 exhaust tips, I'll laugh at him. If a girl drives a car with 6 exhaust tips, I'll still laugh!

[Redlyne_mr2]

My gf will run circles around some of the male drivers at solo and track day:tongue: As previously mentioned she doesn't have to work on her car to be considered a true enthusiast, thats where I come in. Im not sure if it's physically possible for a 100lb asian girl to mount and torque a 17inch rim:rofl:

[Boost Infested]

:rofl:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
My gf will run circles around some of the male drivers at solo and track day:tongue: As previously mentioned she doesn't have to work on her car to be considered a true enthusiast, thats where I come in. Im not sure if it's physically possible for a 100lb asian girl to mount and torque a 17inch rim:rofl:


Hahaha, but wouldn't it be fun to watch her try?? :rofl:

Sorry Jackie!

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Ducati
Yes, women are taking a more active part in motorsports. A whole new aftermarket os opening up to cater to their idiocyncracies, such as special "Activity Oriented" dashboards like this versatile and useful example.
:rolleyes: :guns: :thumbsdow

[Ducati]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[Melinda]

Seriously man, what part of :rolleyes: :guns: :thumbsdow do you NOT understand? Those pictures are pretty damn disrespectful of you.

[fast95pony]

Why do so many females use "Girl" or "chick" in their names ?? If they wanted to be treated as just enthusiasts ,why bring themselves the extra attention ??

[CRX crazy]

Originally posted by fast95pony
Why do so many females use "Girl" or "chick" in their names ?? If they wanted to be treated as just enthusiasts ,why bring themselves the extra attention ??

I'm a girl, do you see it anywhere in my name?? ;)
O and the sig doesn't count :D

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by serusnak
mm. Do any of you know any women who are in the trades, (name any, mechanic, welder, autobody, construction?) .......

I'm into construction, and I had a female drywall taper work for me, she was an excellent taper, she always got shit on by other trades, but I just told her to keep her head up, and not worry about those morons. She did have a little attitude, but that was due to being put down in the trades. I have respect for her.
If you see her driving around (new black acura el i think), blonde w/shades, listening to punk, that's her. Shitty I didn't have enough work to keep her around, and being her boss I couldn't hit on her, she's really attractive too.



Originally posted by three.eighteen.
hey at least she doesnt get all defensive like the male-idiots...and to the empty offramp thing :thumbsup: the yellow speed limit on there is just a suggestion ;)

Ya know I think those yellow signs were meant to be in Miles/Hour, LOL

[finboy]

Originally posted by kenny
You dont need to be mechanically inclined to be a car enthusiast.... a true car enthusiast by my definition will have car posters on their walls, car magazines in their washroom or bedroom, read about cars, talk about cars, etc etc. Basically everyone on beyond would be considered a car enthusiast because you signed up on here to discuss cars with other car enthusiasts from around the world.

A guy could know how to fix every make of car out there, great with tools, great at diagnosing problems with cars and be a crazy good mechanic. If he absolutely hates cars, and ONLY does what he does to pay the bills, then in my mind he would not be a car enthusiast. ("he" is just an example).



although i do agree with you here, i've often wondered if one who pays to have all their work done to their car appreciates it as much as someone who built it themselves. although those who pay others to do their work did earn the money to pay for the parts/labour, i wonder if they have the appreciation for the amount of work that has gone into their car.

i know as soon as my car starts i'll be one of the happiest people in the world, because the hours of suffering in a cold garage, going to the wreckers when its -25, spending countless hours crammed under my car, and beating the ever living hell out of my body while working on it will be worth it as soon as i feel the pull of boost again.

just wondering :dunno:

[neon_ghost]

Originally posted by finboy


although i do agree with you here, i've often wondered if one who pays to have all their work done to their car appreciates it as much as someone who built it themselves.


i always wondered about that myself...like if you build an engine yourself, would you drive the living piss out of it? personally i think that when you buy a car with XX amount of hp, your buying it to push it, and drive it hard....but when you build it, or do mods your self, alot of thoughts are going through your head....i dunno, its hard to say really...

[Hakkola]

I think so, if I have to work 500+ hours to pay for what's getting done to my car, I think I'll appreciate it at least as much as the person who spent 200 hours building it themselves.

[africano]

I think we should encourage anyone trying to get into this hobby, especially females. I think the true reason for all this friction is the motives at play. I don't have a problem with any female entering this hobby, but i do hate people who say they are "entusiasts" but who don't care at all about their cars. These people who simply drive expensive luxury car/sports car because it makes them feel important and better than people. That's why I always loved a sleeper, a car that can beat your 100,000 dollar sports car, and you never saw it coming. In south africa we had a name for these posers, we called them "jappies". A jappie drives his BMW drives like he owns the road, and never gets off his cellphone, he treat his common man like shit and is rich as hell or makes it appear like it. What I hate is when a jackass like this simply goes to a shop and modifies his car simply because he deams himself an "entusiast". And wants to stand out from the other jackasses on the road.

This is where i think working on your own car counts a bit more, sure only a few are like that. But just another example worth considering, still rage2 and others like his ARE true entusiast and no-one can say otherwise.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Hakkola
I think so, if I have to work 500+ hours to pay for what's getting done to my car, I think I'll appreciate it at least as much as the person who spent 200 hours building it themselves.

but does someone who pays for the work really know how much sacrifice is gone through to actually work on the car? if i was to work a few more hours to pay someone to mod my car for me, i don't think i'd appreciate my car near as much, because even though i earned the modified car, i wouldn't know the effort that went into it.

[girlRACER]

Originally posted by fast95pony
Why do so many females use "Girl" or "chick" in their names ?? If they wanted to be treated as just enthusiasts ,why bring themselves the extra attention ??

WTF is wrong with having girl in my name? I liked the name. Nothing more to it than that.

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by finboy


but does someone who pays for the work really know how much sacrifice is gone through to actually work on the car? if i was to work a few more hours to pay someone to mod my car for me, i don't think i'd appreciate my car near as much, because even though i earned the modified car, i wouldn't know the effort that went into it.

There is a catch:

would you
A: work on modding your car knowing you'd have a very high probability of screwing it up then wasting twice the amount of time reversing the probs and then calling a friend for help fixing them?
or
B: would you save the money and have a seasoned professional put on the mod part.

If you didn't want to chance anything to go wrong, I'd pick B if I had a car that was actually worth something, but seeing as I got my car at a steal, right now I'm an A

Some people just aren't good with their hands, but they'd know every square inch of their car and exactly what the parts do. And I've come across in the past seasoned mechanics that know absolutely nothing about Electronic ignition, boost controllers, performance chips, etc (90% of the newer vehicles).

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by fast95pony
Why do so many females use "Girl" or "chick" in their names ?? If they wanted to be treated as just enthusiasts ,why bring themselves the extra attention ??


why do you have something related to speed in your name:
'fast' 95 pony?

do you think ppl care if you're fast or not? no?

that's probably exactly what girlracer thinks - she doesn't care, and my personal thought of you posting something like that about the female enthusiasts will probably get you burned, definitely on this thread.

show some respect to the ladies!

after all one gave birth to you!

[90_Shelby]

Originally posted by finboy


but does someone who pays for the work really know how much sacrifice is gone through to actually work on the car? if i was to work a few more hours to pay someone to mod my car for me, i don't think i'd appreciate my car near as much, because even though i earned the modified car, i wouldn't know the effort that went into it.



I modify cars for a living. As in, I'm installing superchargers on C5 Vettes that make 500+rwhp, I build engines, Machine engines, run the dyno, test drive highly modified cars, etc. etc. I do what all of us love everyday and get paid for it. As far as my own car, or the projects I work on, I do allof my own work on them and I enjoy it. Truth be told, if I could afford it, I would pay someone else to do the work and simply enjoy the best part; driving the car. Does this make me any less of an enthusiast?

As far as people who pay for stuff to get done to their car....... I deal with this everyday, they love their cars and fortunately for them they have the money to pay "professionals" to modify their car. The extent of mods we do to these cars would be disastorous if the average enthusiast on this site or owner did the work themselves. Most people don't realize what is involved in doing a complete buildup of a car. There aren't many people who can do every aspect of a buildup and no matter what a "professional" will have to do some parts of a buildup. (Although I know of a couple of exceptions.;) ) One thing I've also realized with a recent customer who spent $37,000 on his '00 C5 is the owners do respect, acknowledge and understand the amount of work that goes into these vehicles. I personally did all of the work on this particular vehicle and the owner (a 24 year old) has insisted that I will also be able to enjoy the car, by letting me drive, and race it, as he was extremely happy with the outcome. This isn't a very common case but there are "credit card racers" that respect and acknowledge the work done to their cars.