Intact Insurance App tracking my Physical Activity

[mr2mike]

So just went through some of my apps to make sure permissions are all in order.
I get to my Intact Insurance app and I see everything turned off as I had but obviously over the course of some updates they have pushed out on my Android phone, "Physical Activity" is turned on?!

I believe this can track your walking, driving, running habits. Basically they can see if I was talking/texting and driving or other info that could be used without my overt acceptance.
Just a warning for all to go check that app if they have it.
Sneaky bastards!

[ExtraSlow]

Have I ever mentioned I kinda hate apps? Like I'd rather just log into my account on a real computer the once or twice a year that I need it? Yeah, well, I do.

[Buster]

Why do you have an insurance app installed? Uninstall that shit immediately.

[A790]

...

Amazon Alex/Google Home mines your conversations, whether prompted or not, for meta data.

Facebook has profiles on everyone even mentioned on their platform, whether or not those people have active accounts.

Apps track where you go, what you do, and how you do it.

We live the dystopian dream lol.

[mr2mike]

No Facebook account and I don't own a google home etc.
I get it. Tough to avoid being tracked but I try. I'd pay for a non tracking phone if it was a thing.


Why do you have an insurance app installed? Uninstall that shit immediately.
Had to get immediate pink card to register new vehicle. Removing now.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Just turn off their access to that in the settings.

Some apps also require weird permissions because they are based on old versions or use a sensor that is part of that group. I don't know if this is the case for that particular app or not, but with Android you have granular control over every app's battery usage, background data usage, location/physical tracking, etc. I always recommend everyone go through app-by-app (you can also sort by permission) and deny various apps of the things you don't want it using. Do yourself a favor, start with Facebook/Instagram/Twitter/Snapchat and turn it all off haha.

[Tik-Tok]

Lol


I can already picture the apps the insurance companies will want you to use. Requiring access to GPS.

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/410898-Alberta-government-approves-digital-proof-of-car-insurance

[mr2mike]

It's all settled but talk about a bunch of sneaky manoeuvres to get this data. I'm certain it originally didn't want permissions for that. Just permissions to store data and camera (which I turned off).

Be vigilant out there!

[adam c]

I have the app on iOS but don't see that setting, I use it for the digital pink card feature

[suntan]

That's nothing, I had to submit nude pics to get my Beyond account verified.

[Disoblige]

That's nothing, I had to submit nude pics to get my Beyond account verified.
Standard protocol.
Pre-2008, we had to meet rage2 at his office downtown. Then too many 08 n00bs joined causing a bottleneck and it all went digital.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Standard protocol.
Pre-2008, we had to meet rage2 at his office downtown. Then too many 08 n00bs joined causing a bottleneck and it all went digital.

I can't believe it's been 11 years since the crackdown on 08 bashin'.

[Xtrema]

I have the app on iOS but don't see that setting, I use it for the digital pink card feature

I was going say that the digital pink card will eventually force the apps on everyone.

No escape.

[speedog]

That's nothing, I had to submit nude pics to get my Beyond account verified.

That's all? Hell, I had to submit. Period.

[vengie]

I was going say that the digital pink card will eventually force the apps on everyone.

No escape.

Screen shot. Delete app.

[jwslam]

Just turn off their access to that in the settings.
I tried that with the Samsung laundry app for when it asked for contacts, messages, etc.
It would continually error out and I just said fukkit I don't need this.

[kenny]

I can't believe it's been 11 years since the crackdown on 08 bashin'.

There was a crackdown?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

There was a crackdown?

I'm like 90% certain that's why Join Date was removed from user profiles until the most recent version update. Too much noob bashing. So we switched to comparing e-peens via user ID number.

11 years ago, jesus.

[adam c]

I'm like 90% certain that's why Join Date was removed from user profiles until the most recent version update. Too much noob bashing. So we switched to comparing e-peens via user ID number.

11 years ago, jesus.

I remember those days

[A790]

I remember those days

I had much more hair then.

[ZenOps]

So I'm guessing that its playing with fire to install a Chinese spycam control app?

[revelations]

There was a crackdown?

definitely was .... fucking '09s

[kenny]

I'm like 90% certain that's why Join Date was removed from user profiles until the most recent version update. Too much noob bashing. So we switched to comparing e-peens via user ID number.

11 years ago, jesus.

Oh that's right! I forgot about that change.

[dirtsniffer]

That's nothing, I had to submit nude pics to get my Beyond account verified.

Had to prove you're Asian?

[spikerS]

Weird. I am currently using the Intact app, and it isn't accessing anything like that. Nothing that I wouldn't expect it to.

[Masked Bandit]

So this thread has prompted me to do a little investigating. I haven't hidden the fact that to date I'm not 100% sold on this idea, in fact I have my own file with Intact and I don't use the app (yet anyway). Maybe it's a little too much tinfoil hat on my end, or maybe it's the fact that I know I don't always behave behind the wheel (there's a time and a place for everything) but like it or not I see this kind of things becoming more & more common down the road. I contacted the person at Intact we deal with for this type of thing and here's the response I got to the OP:



Hey Bill,

Couple things here:

Yes, the app does need access to your ‘Physical Activity’ – this is how it is used to track your driving habits, like he says
The entire point of the app is to track driving habits, so there isn’t anything sneaky there, should be fairly transparent
Physical Activity is only tracked while in the app, it is not tracking your other physical activity in the background

As far as texting and driving, at this point the app can not monitor that
Right now, the app monitors rapid acceleration, hard braking and time of day driven
There has been discussion about expanding the metrics to include things like distracted driving, but at this point this is not part of the app
If it is included in the future, we will communicate this overtly

The app is highly regulated by the OSFI and Insurance Superintendent – we are not able to push through updates to track additional features without approval
Rest assured, Intact reputation is far too important to risk pushing through features that are not approved




He then goes on to chat about some other Intact stuff that isn't related to this conversation but I thought you guys might find their response interesting.

Cheers!

[Tik-Tok]

So is there a discount for using the app? If not, it seems like this could only negatively effect a person.

[rx7boi]

I posted this in the auto insurance thread but will reiterate here that Bill was very transparent with his knowledge of Pembridge's app tracking which is what sold me on using it.

The Intact rep's answer aligns with what I know about the Pembridge's My_Bridge app as far as the 3 aspects tracked: acceleration, braking, and time of day.

I do not know how bad network connectivity impacts the app tracking but I've been using it for one month out of the 6 months period. App estimates that I'm looking at 22% savings.

It's another story for my wife though. She insists that she's a good driver but she stops way too late for my comfort :rofl: In the other thread, another Beyond member echoes what some app users have been saying; that the app shows hard braking events where there is no braking involved and/or perceived hard braking.

TL;DR, yes, there is a discount and IIRC, Bill said that once the trial period of 6 months is over, the discount is applied to your policy indefinitely unless something anomalous occurs. Additionally, I received a 10% right out of the gate for signing up for the program.

Ultimately, I don't think insurance companies are in it for nefarious purposes. They all want good drivers that pay premiums and don't cost them money. No insurance companies want shitty drivers and liabilities that impact their bottom line.

[rx7boi]

So this thread has prompted me to do a little investigating. I haven't hidden the fact that to date I'm not 100% sold on this idea, in fact I have my own file with Intact and I don't use the app (yet anyway). Maybe it's a little too much tinfoil hat on my end, or maybe it's the fact that I know I don't always behave behind the wheel (there's a time and a place for everything) but like it or not I see this kind of things becoming more & more common down the road.


Easy fix, bro. Drive safe until the trial period is over or just disable tracking in the app and go hooning haha.

Ironically, after I installed the app, I've been more mindful of my habits/speed, but maybe it's also because winter is here.

I want them savings :rofl:

This works out for me because by the time my 6 months is over, spring will be here and I won't need the app anymore.

[FraserB]

I posted this in the auto insurance thread but will reiterate here that Bill was very transparent with his knowledge of Pembridge's app tracking which is what sold me on using it.

The Intact rep's answer aligns with what I know about the Pembridge's My_Bridge app as far as the 3 aspects tracked: acceleration, braking, and time of day.

I do not know how bad network connectivity impacts the app tracking but I've been using it for one month out of the 6 months period. App estimates that I'm looking at 22% savings.

It's another story for my wife though. She insists that she's a good driver but she stops way too late for my comfort :rofl: In the other thread, another Beyond member echoes what some app users have been saying; that the app shows hard braking events where there is no braking involved and/or perceived hard braking.

TL;DR, yes, there is a discount and IIRC, Bill said that once the trial period of 6 months is over, the discount is applied to your policy indefinitely unless something anomalous occurs. Additionally, I received a 10% right out of the gate for signing up for the program.

Ultimately, I don't think insurance companies are in it for nefarious purposes. They all want good drivers that pay premiums and don't cost them money. No insurance companies want shitty drivers and liabilities that impact their bottom line.

I assume you have to sign in every time you are driving one of the cars on the policy? Otherwise I can see being a passenger in another vehicle or being on the bus/train negatively affecting the data collected.

[ercchry]

Are we talking the driver habits app... or the intact app to access your policies and pink cards? Or are they one in the same?

[rx7boi]

I assume you have to sign in every time you are driving one of the cars on the policy? Otherwise I can see being a passenger in another vehicle or being on the bus/train negatively affecting the data collected.

By default, the app runs in the background so it is tracking movement at all times but if it ends up tracking a trip where you're the passenger, you can check a box and it'll remove it from the analysis. You can also disable tracking within the app if you have an extended period of time where you're using other modes of transportation.

I had a quirky trip where it showed me taking a route with a destination that clearly wasn't mine and it also had a hard braking event, so I went in and checked it as "Not My Trip."

If you're using the app but your routine frequently has you in other vehicles, it's something you'll have to just be more mindful about.

[thinmyster]

No just "hanging out" by the squat rack anymore Mike. Intact now knows what we've known all along ;)


So just went through some of my apps to make sure permissions are all in order.
I get to my Intact Insurance app and I see everything turned off as I had but obviously over the course of some updates they have pushed out on my Android phone, "Physical Activity" is turned on?!

I believe this can track your walking, driving, running habits. Basically they can see if I was talking/texting and driving or other info that could be used without my overt acceptance.
Just a warning for all to go check that app if they have it.
Sneaky bastards!

[msommers]

So many free apps available just sell your data that you agree to give them upon installing. I have to wonder if the app itself is half designed as revenue generation for that purpose, and other half for what the app advertises to actually do.

Google or Apple know all anyways. What is really private these days.

[revelations]

I have not installed the app - but does it TELL YOU IN PLAIN ENGLISH that its doing this in the background?

[suntan]

So is there a discount for using the app? If not, it seems like this could only negatively effect a person.

Yes up to 20%.

[spikerS]

I have not installed the app - but does it TELL YOU IN PLAIN ENGLISH that its doing this in the background?

Yes it does. And there is even an icon in the top header on my Samsung S9 showing that it is active whenever I unlock it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

By default, the app runs in the background so it is tracking movement at all times but if it ends up tracking a trip where you're the passenger, you can check a box and it'll remove it from the analysis. You can also disable tracking within the app if you have an extended period of time where you're using other modes of transportation.

I had a quirky trip where it showed me taking a route with a destination that clearly wasn't mine and it also had a hard braking event, so I went in and checked it as "Not My Trip."

If you're using the app but your routine frequently has you in other vehicles, it's something you'll have to just be more mindful about.

So, you just mark yourself down as a passenger for any "spirited" driving or if you are in a hurry, and enable the app when you're in rush hour or if there's traffic? That seems way too easy to manipulate but maybe I am missing something. Or just mark it as "not my trip" every single time it flags anything that would be viewed as negative if it provides that information to you before it is sent to the insurance company.

I don't really see a downside to the app if you get up to 20% savings and have complete control over the data.

[Masked Bandit]

So is there a discount for using the app? If not, it seems like this could only negatively effect a person.

Right now in our office both Pembridge & Intact offer this. Pembridge gives 15% just for signing up and Intact is 10%. After the monitoring period (six months for Pembridge and nine for Intact) your results are locked in at anywhere from 0% to 25% and that discount is applied to year two and forward for as long as you have the policy.




Easy fix, bro. Drive safe until the trial period is over or just disable tracking in the app and go hooning haha.

Ironically, after I installed the app, I've been more mindful of my habits/speed, but maybe it's also because winter is here.

I want them savings :rofl:

This works out for me because by the time my 6 months is over, spring will be here and I won't need the app anymore.


We've had all kinds of conversations on how to game the system and if you're truly vigilant for the entire monitoring period I think you could do quite well but I suspect after a few weeks I would just forget about it and end up with all kinds of weird shit on my results.




Are we talking the driver habits app... or the intact app to access your policies and pink cards? Or are they one in the same?

There's two, one to access your policies for pink cards & such and then a different one for the driver tracking or "telematics".

- - - Updated - - -


So, you just mark yourself down as a passenger for any "spirited" driving or if you are in a hurry, and enable the app when you're in rush hour or if there's traffic? That seems way too easy to manipulate but maybe I am missing something. Or just mark it as "not my trip" every single time it flags anything that would be viewed as negative if it provides that information to you before it is sent to the insurance company.

I don't really see a downside to the app if you get up to 20% savings and have complete control over the data.

As I understand it you can't view the results of a trip and then designate it as "not my trip".

[spike98]

So this thread has prompted me to do a little investigating. I haven't hidden the fact that to date I'm not 100% sold on this idea, in fact I have my own file with Intact and I don't use the app (yet anyway). Maybe it's a little too much tinfoil hat on my end, or maybe it's the fact that I know I don't always behave behind the wheel (there's a time and a place for everything) but like it or not I see this kind of things becoming more & more common down the road. I contacted the person at Intact we deal with for this type of thing and here's the response I got to the OP:



Hey Bill,

Couple things here:

Yes, the app does need access to your ‘Physical Activity’ – this is how it is used to track your driving habits, like he says
The entire point of the app is to track driving habits, so there isn’t anything sneaky there, should be fairly transparent
Physical Activity is only tracked while in the app, it is not tracking your other physical activity in the background

As far as texting and driving, at this point the app can not monitor that
Right now, the app monitors rapid acceleration, hard braking and time of day driven
There has been discussion about expanding the metrics to include things like distracted driving, but at this point this is not part of the app
If it is included in the future, we will communicate this overtly

The app is highly regulated by the OSFI and Insurance Superintendent – we are not able to push through updates to track additional features without approval
Rest assured, Intact reputation is far too important to risk pushing through features that are not approved




He then goes on to chat about some other Intact stuff that isn't related to this conversation but I thought you guys might find their response interesting.

Cheers!


I assume you have to sign in every time you are driving one of the cars on the policy? Otherwise I can see being a passenger in another vehicle or being on the bus/train negatively affecting the data collected.

The statement Bill provided seems that there is no background data collection so id think you would have to open the app at minimum.

[Mitsu3000gt]

As I understand it you can't view the results of a trip and then designate it as "not my trip".

OK. rx7boi mentioned he saw a hard breaking event and then just market it down as not his trip, so I assumed you could see the data beforehand.

So, there's still nothing preventing you from only enabling it during rush hour and other times where you know there is zero chance of your driving breaking the 'rules'? And simply disabling it for all other driving. As you mentioned, you might forget sometimes, but it seems too easy to defeat given the potential savings. I'm surprised the insurance companies do it that way but I guess that's good news for anyone using the program.

[spikerS]

give me a bit, and I will post up about the app and my experiences with it.

[mr2mike]

Thanks Bill for digging into this.
I think there's a bit of confusion on which app.
I had the intact app to view policy and pink slips. This had the physical activity permission on it.
I get the other driving app obviously does and doesn't hide it.
I was just surprised this one had it and maybe its an oversight on Intact's part.
Regardless, the app is gone off my phone. I got the physical slip in my car.

Tracking these metrics out of context I think will lead to some pretty good profits for lawyers in the future.

[rx7boi]

So, you just mark yourself down as a passenger for any "spirited" driving or if you are in a hurry, and enable the app when you're in rush hour or if there's traffic? That seems way too easy to manipulate but maybe I am missing something. Or just mark it as "not my trip" every single time it flags anything that would be viewed as negative if it provides that information to you before it is sent to the insurance company.

I don't really see a downside to the app if you get up to 20% savings and have complete control over the data.


OK. rx7boi mentioned he saw a hard breaking event and then just market it down as not his trip, so I assumed you could see the data beforehand.

So, there's still nothing preventing you from only enabling it during rush hour and other times where you know there is zero chance of your driving breaking the 'rules'? And simply disabling it for all other driving. As you mentioned, you might forget sometimes, but it seems too easy to defeat given the potential savings. I'm surprised the insurance companies do it that way but I guess that's good news for anyone using the program.

Yes, there's all sorts of ways to game the system as Bill mentioned. You can even install the app on another phone and give it to Grandma if she ever drives from noon to 2pm for 4km every trip to the grocery store.

The other side is that you still need to provide 6 months worth of data points. If you're habitually driving like a hooligan, there's a limti to how many times you can mark "Not My Trip." Additionally, it's data that is still attached to the account so you either mark them all and provide limited data points or leave some, in which case it would show inconsistent data trend. As per my conversation with Bill, I really don't know what sort of data goes to the insurance company so it is anyone's guess.

It would be a huge oversight if they didn't log data that may implicate cherry picking.

The only thing I don't like is that I had absolutely 0 hard braking events until that quirk popped up. The trip said I ended up in Beddington (and with a braking event) and I didn't even go there that day so from a single data point perspective, it would seem suspect for me to flag that trip as not mine.

[mr2mike]

Adding to this thread:
Car manufacturers are also collecting GB of data from your driving habits to who you call and their location.
I highly doubt they're destroying any of this considering AT&T has vaults of data collected since the mid 80s.

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/volt/auto-news/news/what-does-your-car-know-about-you-we-hacked-a-chevy-to-find-out/amp

[spikerS]

give me a bit, and I will post up about the app and my experiences with it.

Bumping this thread. I said I would update, and I am.

So, yesterday, my monitoring period with Intact ended after 9 months. Baygirl's ends in another week.

So, 9 months of driving like a saint which wasn't really hard as it is kinda normal for me. Besides doing 120 on the QE2, I am a pretty normal driver although, I did really pay attention to my braking and pedestrian signals at intersections. gave me the sweats if I had to get on the brakes, and my first thoughts were always "did the app count that as a hard braking event?" Most of the time no, but it did ding me a couple times.

The biggest deterrent to the app is the number of false events it recorded. Especially on Deerfoot. I could be booting from the north to the south, and it would say I had 33 events in a 1 way trip! Thankfully, their tech support guys are pretty easy to get ahold of and quick to validate the data. For whatever reason my phone would ocassionally have some weird hiccup, and record all those events. When it happened, I called in, and it would be deleted from my profile. As mentioned earlier in the thread, you can not see the trip and events before you mark yourself as the driver or not, so you won't know if the trip was good until you accept it and that's fair.

So, overall experience for me I think was a positive one. I had a few events, but in the end, the app states that I will be getting a 24% discount (max 25%) which I am pretty happy with. Will save me a good chunk and with how fast insurance rates are climbing, I welcome it! Both Baygirl and I are rated as +15 drivers (or is it -15? I can't remember, we are lowest risk drivers according to them) so our insurance isn't gonna get any cheaper on it's own lol.

Here is an example of one of my bugged out trips:
92716

92717

And this is my final results. Would I do it again, probably, yes.

[Masked Bandit]

I appreciate this kind of real world feed back spikerS but alas it's largely mute at this point. Intact has changed their program from a nine month monitoring period to ongoing (app never comes off). In addition to the things like hard braking, distance driven and time of day you're on the road the app will also monitor more stuff now like rapid acceleration (11 KM/H / SECOND), fast cornering, direction of turns (left vs. right) how frequently you exceed 130 KM/H and distracted driving. I was luke warm on program in the first place and these changes sure don't help my comfort. Pembridge on the other hand hasn't announced any plans to follow suit, their app is staying with the basics and the pre-determined monitoring periord. With the new program I believe your driving score / discount is reset every six months.

[spikerS]

I appreciate this kind of real world feed back spikerS but alas it's largely mute at this point. Intact has changed their program from a nine month monitoring period to ongoing (app never comes off). In addition to the things like hard braking, distance driven and time of day you're on the road the app will also monitor more stuff now like rapid acceleration (11 KM/H / SECOND), fast cornering, direction of turns (left vs. right) how frequently you exceed 130 KM/H and distracted driving. I was luke warm on program in the first place and these changes sure don't help my comfort. Pembridge on the other hand hasn't announced any plans to follow suit, their app is staying with the basics and the pre-determined monitoring periord. With the new program I believe your driving score / discount is reset every six months.

Well, that's a drag if that is the case Masked Bandit.

My app is telling me that the assessment period is now over, and I spoke with a tech support guy yesterday who also said my monitoring period is over, and that Baygirl's ends in a couple days. I haven't deleted the app yet just in case i need to review the trip history, but I was planning on getting rid of it once Baygirl was done her assessment period.

With the changes you mentioned, is it retroactive and we will now be subject to full time monitoring and we lose the discount? or are Baygirl and I considered grandfathered in?

[Masked Bandit]

Well, that's a drag if that is the case Masked Bandit.

My app is telling me that the assessment period is now over, and I spoke with a tech support guy yesterday who also said my monitoring period is over, and that Baygirl's ends in a couple days. I haven't deleted the app yet just in case i need to review the trip history, but I was planning on getting rid of it once Baygirl was done her assessment period.

With the changes you mentioned, is it retroactive and we will now be subject to full time monitoring and we lose the discount? or are Baygirl and I considered grandfathered in?

Sorry, I should have worded that better. Anyone that signs up from this point forward is on the new program. You've fulfilled your obligation and you keep that discount for as long as you have the policy.

[Nufy]

Will it tell if you are on a plane...

Sir we have you driving in excess of 600 mph for over 8 hours...can you explain ???

[Masked Bandit]

Will it tell if you are on a plane...

Sir we have you driving in excess of 600 mph for over 8 hours...can you explain ???

lol...ya that shouldn't be an issue. Apparently the new one can tell the difference between you driving a car vs. riding public transit. Not sure how much I believe that but that's the story.

[pheoxs]

lol...ya that shouldn't be an issue. Apparently the new one can tell the difference between you driving a car vs. riding public transit. Not sure how much I believe that but that's the story.

How does it know if you are riding with someone else that drives poorly? Not sure if this was addressed before

[rx7boi]

How does it know if you are riding with someone else that drives poorly? Not sure if this was addressed before

You either turn the app off or you mark it as "I'm the passenger."

Bill and I chatted about the app the other day because my wife and I finished the monitoring period a while back. For her, the app logged a bunch of strange/inaccurate data that we didn't reach out to the Pembridge support team to fix. Long story short, it was constantly logging hard braking events/acceleration like the buggy trip that spikerS posted and it never stopped throughout the 6 month monitoring period. I think she ended up with like 400 hard braking events and some other bogus data. We just lol'd and shook our heads but in hindsight, it is best to give this feedback to the team.

I haven't reached out to the Pembridge team about a possible re-do on the whole thing.

I'll let Bill clarify if needed but from our discussion and what he surmises, things like vibrations from putting the phone in a cupholder can fuck with the telematics app, especially if the phone isn't secure.