cca 450 is it enough for this -30 weather?

[rach]

i cant start my car this morning, was in the garage, probably like -10
and i noticed my battery cca is only 450, is this enough?
battery is 1 yr old

[ThePenIsMightier]

It should be, but there are so many variables to consider.
A block heater will make a big difference and a battery blanket would likely be as successful. Combine the two, and a '77 Rabbit would almost start!

[rach]

dont have block heater, or blanket
im having hard time starting the car even when i was just shutting it off for 5 mins...when its -20

[revelations]

i cant start my car this morning, was in the garage, probably like -10
and i noticed my battery cca is only 450, is this enough?
battery is 1 yr old

whar car?

[rach]

2007 civic

[ExtraSlow]

You can destroy a battery of any age or capacity in this weather really easily. Short trips or small parasitic drains beat battery age or capacity.

Have I mentioned that battery chargers are more important than block heaters in cold weather?

[speedog]

03 Suburban, 313,863km, 800CCA for the win, outside and not plugged in.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I’ve got dual 800s in my truck but I doubt it will start tonight without being plugged in for at least two hours. When I picked it up yesterday I had to boost it with a big Noco, but it has only moved 180km in four weeks and had an electrical draw which pulled the batteries down while an alignment was being done.

Will a vehicle start is entirely situational really.

[dj_rice]

Oddly enough, my sister is having starting problems with her car and battery was weak as well and its a Honda Civic. Maybe Honda Civic tings

[ExtraSlow]

Oddly enough, my sister is having starting problems with her car and battery was weak as well and its a Honda Civic. Maybe Honda Civic tings

Lots of modern cars have parasitic drains, so the need to maintain your battery is higher than with speedog 2003 Suburban.

[rach]

You can destroy a battery of any age or capacity in this weather really easily. Short trips or small parasitic drains beat battery age or capacity.

Have I mentioned that battery chargers are more important than block heaters in cold weather?

i have been plugging into cteck charger since yesterday, and now its been 24 hrs, its not even done charging..

[ExtraSlow]

i have been plugging into cteck charger since yesterday, and now its been 24 hrs, its not even done charging..

I suspect your battery has been frozen and is destroyed. You should have been charging your battery before now.

First step, bring the battery inside overnight. Then charge it with the charger, then take it to the parts store to get the battery tested. Take it back where you bought it if you have a warranty on that battery.

[rach]

I suspect your battery has been frozen and is destroyed. You should have been charging your battery before now.

First step, bring the battery inside overnight. Then charge it with the charger, then take it to the parts store to get the battery tested. Take it back where you bought it if you have a warranty on that battery.

ok will do...its still at charging stage right now

[ExtraSlow]

Bring it inside and keve it a few hours at least. Charging a frozen battery is dangerous.

[rach]

yup , car is already inside garage, its not heated, but its better than -30
so once its fully charged, i guess im able to start the car even with cca only being 450?

[benz_890]

yup , car is already inside garage, its not heated, but its better than -30
so once its fully charged, i guess im able to start the car even with cca only being 450?

If it wasn't frozen and damaged, my wifes crv has no problems and it has the same size battery

[rach]

If it wasn't frozen and damaged, my wifes crv has no problems and it has the same size battery

OK will give it a try once its fully charged

[SJW]

03 Suburban, 313,863km, 800CCA for the win, outside and not plugged in.

I've never plugged a vehicle in, in Alberta in my life. V8 FTW!

[revelations]

yup , car is already inside garage, its not heated, but its better than -30
so once its fully charged, i guess im able to start the car even with cca only being 450?

Just checked the specs - 450 CCA is typical for the 07 Civic. From what I gather, its not just the CCA alone that determines the relative performance of a battery in minus stupid.

On my Civic, I have always gotten the best battery possible - which usually is the Eliminator series from Canadian Tire (lasted 8 years in cold service then died suddenly in the summer).

Having said that, if you can fit a slightly oversized battery in the bay, I would also recommend this for more cold weather performance.

[ExtraSlow]

i guess im able to start the car even with cca only being 450? That size of battery is fine for that car. If you had to buy a replacement and there was a larger CCA option, and it still physically fit, it wouldn't hurt, but it also won't help much if you have some situation where the battery is getting drawn down in extreme cold weather.

Warm it up, see if it'll charge, but also, for real, get it tested at a parts store or Canadian tire. A discharged battery that has frozen is probably permanently damaged.

[rach]

Just checked the specs - 450 CCA is typical for the 07 Civic. From what I gather, its not just the CCA alone that determines the relative performance of a battery in minus stupid.

On my Civic, I have always gotten the best battery possible - which usually is the Eliminator series from Canadian Tire (lasted 8 years in cold service then died suddenly in the summer).

Having said that, if you can fit a slightly oversized battery in the bay, I would also recommend this for more cold weather performance.

I thought 450 is a bit low consider we are in alberta
i do have a bit of room to put a bigger one in..next one i buy will be more than 450cca for sure

[revelations]

I thought 450 is a bit low consider we are in alberta
i do have a bit of room to put a bigger one in..next one i buy will be more than 450cca for sure

Yea in my 03 civic, I measured out the space and got a taller battery.

What also really helps is a battery heater. You will get more juice out of any battery this way.

[benz_890]

Having said that, if you can fit a slightly oversized battery in the bay, I would also recommend this for more cold weather performance.

I'll be upgrading the POS group 51 battery to a 24. IDK what Honda was thinking jamming those power wheels batteries in their cars

[Mitsu3000gt]

Go buy an AGM battery. The are cheap (Civic should be $150 or less), hold their charge a ridiculous amount of time (say, if you go on a long vacation), and hold power in the deep cold very well. Emergency and first responder vehicles use them for this reason, and there is no liquid inside so they are safer (which is also why boats use them). My old car used to sit outside in -30 for several days at a time and it would fire up no problem at all every time without a block heater. Use synthetic oil as well so your oil isn't thicker than molasses when you go to start it.

[rach]

Go buy an AGM battery. The are cheap (Civic should be $150 or less), hold their charge a ridiculous amount of time (say, if you go on a long vacation), and hold power in the deep cold very well. Emergency and first responder vehicles use them for this reason, and there is no liquid inside so they are safer (which is also why boats use them). My old car used to sit outside in -30 for several days at a time and it would fire up no problem at all every time without a block heater. Use synthetic oil as well so your oil isn't thicker than molasses when you go to start it.

where can i buy AGM battery?

[Mitsu3000gt]

where can i buy AGM battery?

Pretty well anywhere that sells batteries - the easiest thing is just go to Canadian Tire and look up what size you need in the books they have. They are cheaper now too, looks like around $100:

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/search-results.html?q=AGM%20battery

Also AGM is a type, not a brand, sorry if that wasn't clear - it means absorbent glass mat.

[rach]

Pretty well anywhere that sells batteries - the easiest thing is just go to Canadian Tire and look up what size you need in the books they have. They are cheaper now too, looks like around $100:

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/search-results.html?q=AGM%20battery

Also AGM is a type, not a brand, sorry if that wasn't clear - it means absorbent glass mat.


ok got it, mine is from canadain tire as well

[firebane]

Just checked the specs - 450 CCA is typical for the 07 Civic. From what I gather, its not just the CCA alone that determines the relative performance of a battery in minus stupid.

On my Civic, I have always gotten the best battery possible - which usually is the Eliminator series from Canadian Tire (lasted 8 years in cold service then died suddenly in the summer).

Having said that, if you can fit a slightly oversized battery in the bay, I would also recommend this for more cold weather performance.

A 4 cylinder vehicle with a starter the size of a golf ball doesn't take much to turn over lol.

[rach]

so i fully charged the battery, still wont turn over, its cranking slowily.
so next move is to try jumping it with another car?

[revelations]

so i fully charged the battery, still wont turn over, its cranking slowily.
so next move is to try jumping it with another car?

Yep, that battery is done (how old was it?) - next step is to use another vehicle to start - but note that you may not be able to restart the car if it sits too long.

[rach]

Yep, that battery is done (how old was it?) - next step is to use another vehicle to start - but note that you may not be able to restart the car if it sits too long.
it was bought june 17, 2019

- - - Updated - - -

car has been sitting for one day...is that too long?

[revelations]

it was bought june 17, 2019

- - - Updated - - -

car has been sitting for one day...is that too long?

No, thats a bad battery that needs to be returned then.

[firebane]

it was bought june 17, 2019

- - - Updated - - -

car has been sitting for one day...is that too long?

No way a battery of less than a year should be having these issues. Where was it bought and what year was it made? Should be a white sticker to say this.

If its got a warranty just take it in.

[rach]

from canadaian tire, motormaster..
calling for warranty now

[ExtraSlow]

so i fully charged the battery, still wont turn over, its cranking slowily.
so next move is to try jumping it with another car?
No. Next step is to fix the battery. Warm it up (in your house), then charge it, then take it to get tested, then use the failed test to get your partial replacement under warranty. Then take that new battery, charge it to 100% in your house (not your unheated garage) and THEN try to start the car.

Boosting this car once isn't going to help anything.

- - - Updated - - -


from canadaian tire, motormaster..
calling for warranty now

You carry the battery up to their counter. Phoning doesn't do anything.

[firebane]

No. Next step is to fix the battery. Warm it up (in your house), then charge it, then take it to get tested, then use the failed test to get your partial replacement under warranty. Then take that new battery, charge it to 100% in your house (not your unheated garage) and THEN try to start the car.

Boosting this car once isn't going to help anything.

- - - Updated - - -



You carry the battery up to their counter. Phoning doesn't do anything.

Don't charge batteries in a house.. bad bad bad. They can left off dangerous gasses.

[speedog]

Don't charge batteries in a house.. bad bad bad. They can left off dangerous gasses.

I vent off dangerous gases, should I be recharging myself outside?

[revelations]

Don't charge batteries in a house.. bad bad bad. They can left off dangerous gasses.

You can trickle charge a battery in a house, but I wouldn't do a >5-10 amp charge for eg.

[ExtraSlow]

Don't charge batteries in a house.. bad bad bad. They can left off dangerous gasses.

Hydrogen, you mean? Don't charge them in an enclosed space maybe.

[firebane]

Hydrogen, you mean? Don't charge them in an enclosed space maybe.

Kitchen table?

[rach]

No. Next step is to fix the battery. Warm it up (in your house), then charge it, then take it to get tested, then use the failed test to get your partial replacement under warranty. Then take that new battery, charge it to 100% in your house (not your unheated garage) and THEN try to start the car.

Boosting this car once isn't going to help anything.

- - - Updated - - -



You carry the battery up to their counter. Phoning doesn't do anything.

just tried boosting it, didnt work, maybe its not battery?

[speedog]

just tried boosting it, didnt work, maybe its not battery?

When you're boosting it, does the car's starter try to engage? Or does nothing happen?

[rach]

When you're boosting it, does the car's starter try to engage? Or does nothing happen?

its basically the same sound as when i try starting by itself...there are no difference..

[benz_890]

its basically the same sound as when i try starting by itself...there are no difference..

what kind of sound does it make?

[beyond_ban]

Anyone have any experience with the AMA battery replacements? I couldn't find any information on their website about the strength of the battery.

[rach]

sounds like cranking sound...but i dont hear any click click sound

[benz_890]

sounds like cranking sound...but i dont hear any click click sound


Sounds like you don't have spark or fuel

[firebane]

sounds like cranking sound...but i dont hear any click click sound

the clicking noise will only happen if the battery is too weak to actually turn the starter.

if its turning over then your battery either doesn't have enough amperage to start (tests can show this) or you have fuel/spark issues.

[rach]

the clicking noise will only happen if the battery is too weak to actually turn the starter.

if its turning over then your battery either doesn't have enough amperage to start (tests can show this) or you have fuel/spark issues.

umm ok...thanks
it all happens when the temp dropped to -30..so im leaning towards the battery still..i will bring the battery in to shop and let them test it

[beyond_ban]

umm ok...thanks
it all happens when the temp dropped to -30..so im leaning towards the battery still..i will bring the battery in to shop and let them test it

Do you have AMA? Reason i asked above is because they do mobile battery tests as well as replacement.

[Xtrema]

Do you have AMA? Reason i asked above is because they do mobile battery tests as well as replacement.

Wonder what the wait time will be like in this cold snap tho.

[never]

Wonder what the wait time will be like in this cold snap tho.

I heard on the news last night that the service has been suspended during the cold snap.

[firebane]

Wonder what the wait time will be like in this cold snap tho.

16 hours for a boost :D

6 for battery test/replacement

[beyond_ban]

I heard on the news last night that the service has been suspended during the cold snap.

I just checked their website, seems like battery testing and replacement is suspended while towing/winching is a 24-48 hour wait. Hurry up and get here Monday...

https://roadreports.ama.ab.ca/?layers=roadside_assistance&_ga=2.68992273.1454447492.1579102096-247781394.1579102096&_gac=1.247185968.1579102097.EAIaIQobChMIuYvP2fWF5wIVDyCtBh3k_AAlEAAYASABEgJH6PD_BwE

[never]

I just checked their website, seems like battery testing and replacement is suspended while towing/winching is a 24-48 hour wait. Hurry up and get here Monday...

https://roadreports.ama.ab.ca/?layers=roadside_assistance&_ga=2.68992273.1454447492.1579102096-247781394.1579102096&_gac=1.247185968.1579102097.EAIaIQobChMIuYvP2fWF5wIVDyCtBh3k_AAlEAAYASABEgJH6PD_BwE

Yeah, sorry...I meant just the battery testing, not all AMA services.

[rach]

ok, i finanly boosted it up with a truck battery
seems to be ok, i let it run for 1 hr, and put a heating pad around the battery, i will restart again in few hrs see if i can start it..

[ExtraSlow]

You've been fucking around with this so long, you could have go to Canadian tire, had the battery tested and replaced already. I'm looking forward to your post in "a few hours".

[bjstare]

This prompted me to look into battery blanket for my car. Then I remembered that my battery is in the trunk, underneath the spare tire. I don't have the warm and fuzzies (so to speak) about putting a battery blanket in there. Did some more googling and found out my OEM battery is 920CCA so hopefully won't have too much to worry about.

[dj_rice]

ok, i finanly boosted it up with a truck battery
seems to be ok, i let it run for 1 hr, and put a heating pad around the battery, i will restart again in few hrs see if i can start it..

Letting it run for 1 hr doesn't really do much in terms of charging. Theres no load. You need to get out on the road and drive it. But at this point, just replace that battery.

[killramos]

This prompted me to look into battery blanket for my car. Then I remembered that my battery is in the trunk, underneath the spare tire. I don't have the warm and fuzzies (so to speak) about putting a battery blanket in there. Did some more googling and found out my OEM battery is 920CCA so hopefully won't have too much to worry about.

Trunk batteries are the worst in real cold. No ambient heat to help them out at all.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Letting it run for 1 hr doesn't really do much in terms of charging. Theres no load. You need to get out on the road and drive it. But at this point, just replace that battery.

This. You can't just idle your car to charge the battery, you need to drive it around and get the RPMs up a little bit. It's better for the rest of your car too in this cold weather to be warmed up all at once by driving it gently rather than just warming up the engine.

I don't know why the OP hasn't just gone to Canadian Tire or whatever and sorted this all out already.

- - - Updated - - -


Trunk batteries are the worst in real cold. No ambient heat to help them out at all.

Some German cars use AGM batteries and this is one of the reason why.

[Disoblige]

Dealerships would make a killing if they installed a block heater/small intelligent trickle charger/battery warmer in a tidy manner and on one circuit that can be used on a typical 15 A breaker. It could even have a manual bypass that allows you to only trickle charger if you want on those warmer days.

[killramos]

Dealerships would make a killing if they installed a block heater/small intelligent trickle charger/battery warmer in a tidy manner and on one circuit that can be used on a typical 15 A breaker. It could even have a manual bypass that allows you to only trickle charger if you want on those warmer days.

They already make a killing selling new batteries lol

[Mitsu3000gt]

First they make a killing off of the "mandatory" block heater that they have "no choice" but to charge you for. Most people buy that BS and pay for it. A quick $100-200 pure profit per vehicle I imagine.

[Disoblige]

They already make a killing selling new batteries lol
True actually, dealerships want to replace your battery regardless if it needs it or not! Probably recommend you do it every year :rofl:

Then perhaps third party shop, maybe. Same ones who install alarms/car starters, etc. I think it would be a good niche service that would be very successful.

[killramos]

I totally agree it’s a good idea. I would pay for someone to do a nice job with this for sure, it’s all off the shelf parts too it’s really a no brainer.

[ExtraSlow]

Super easy to wire up this under the hood with your block heater.
89062
89063

[dj_rice]

They already make a killing selling new batteries lol

This is true, the past few days were all just battery replacements and blower motors and no start complaints. Lots of frozen Adblue heaters/lines as well. Mind you 70% of the battery replacements were covered under warranty but we making bank either way.

[speedog]

First they make a killing off of the "mandatory" block heater that they have "no choice" but to charge you for. Most people buy that BS and pay for it. A quick $100-200 pure profit per vehicle I imagine.

People thinking they need block heaters? Wtf am I doing wrong in that I've had multiple Chevy/GM's over 300,000km that I don't bother to plug in, people will argue premature engine wear/failure but my 02 Sierra was at 475,000+km when I sold it and didn't use oil, original engine too.

[Ca_Silvia13]

People thinking they need block heaters? Wtf am I doing wrong in that I've had multiple Chevy/GM's over 300,000km that I don't bother to plug in, people will argue premature engine wear/failure but my 02 Sierra was at 475,000+km when I sold it and didn't use oil, original engine too.

Most people think plugging in their block heater is great for the battery... :rolleyes:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Most people think plugging in their block heater is great for the battery... :rolleyes:

Indirectly if it heats the oil enough it makes the motor easier to turn over and draws the battery down less on initial crank.

[revelations]

Indirectly if it heats the oil enough it makes the motor easier to turn over and draws the battery down less on initial crank.

A block heater is going to do sweet fuck all to the oil in a metal heat sink located close to the ground, thats also somewhat insulated from the block with a gasket.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

A block heater is going to do sweet fuck all to the oil in a metal heat sink located close to the ground, thats also somewhat insulated from the block with a gasket.

Depends on the vehicle. It raises my oil temp over 15 degrees in this weather after 2-3 hours of being plugged in. Some vehicles also have pan heaters and many have composite oil pans now.

[firebane]

Indirectly if it heats the oil enough it makes the motor easier to turn over and draws the battery down less on initial crank.

This is such a BS argument. It will vary widely on the vehicle and many other factors.

For example.. my Jeep with a 4" lift plugged in for 4 hours showed zero warmth on the oil pan or anywhere around it. How do I know? Grabbed my IR thermometer... no warmth at the pan.

It would take a shit load of enclosed area or heat to radiate to oil pans to warm up the oil to a reasonable temp.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

This is such a BS argument. It will vary widely on the vehicle and many other factors.

For example.. my Jeep with a 4" lift plugged in for 4 hours showed zero warmth on the oil pan or anywhere around it. How do I know? Grabbed my IR thermometer... no warmth at the pan.

It would take a shit load of enclosed area or heat to radiate to oil pans to warm up the oil to a reasonable temp.

I literally just said above it depends on the vehicle. On my truck I see 15 degree oil temp increases but it has an insanely large heater that draws massive power.

On most vehicles? Negligible.

[revelations]

Depends on the vehicle. It raises my oil temp over 15 degrees in this weather after 2-3 hours of being plugged in. Some vehicles also have pan heaters and many have composite oil pans now.

Then you have something else going on - very vehicle specific as stated. But your standard wet sump oil pan located far from the block wont see anything.

I have a stick-on oil pan heater in my car that works great when its minus stupid. It also (very) slightly heats the block indirectly as heat rises.

[Mitsu3000gt]

People thinking they need block heaters? Wtf am I doing wrong in that I've had multiple Chevy/GM's over 300,000km that I don't bother to plug in, people will argue premature engine wear/failure but my 02 Sierra was at 475,000+km when I sold it and didn't use oil, original engine too.

Like I said, it's just a money-grab from the dealer. Block heaters do have some advantages (like you get heat way sooner) but the BS the dealership feeds you about them is another story.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Like I said, it's just a money-grab from the dealer. Block heaters do have some advantages (like you get heat way sooner) but the BS the dealership feeds you about them is another story.

Most German manufacturers don’t even have block heaters as an option these days. Below -30 it can be very beneficial but most of the worlds climates it’s not an issue these days.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Most German manufacturers don’t even have block heaters as an option these days. Below -30 it can be very beneficial but most of the worlds climates it’s not an issue these days.

Correct - neither of my Audi's had them. With most motors these days you're OK with synthetic oil and a good battery. My old Civic used to sit outside for 2-3 days at a time in -30 and it started no problem without plugging in with an AGM battery and synthetic. The steering and shiftier was pretty stiff though haha.

[firebane]

Like I said, it's just a money-grab from the dealer. Block heaters do have some advantages (like you get heat way sooner) but the BS the dealership feeds you about them is another story.

When your vehicle has a shitty heater core and the electric seats barely warm your ass.. you'll take any extra heat you can get early :D

[Mitsu3000gt]

When your vehicle has a shitty heater core and the electric seats barely warm your ass.. you'll take any extra heat you can get early :D

Oh totally, I use mine too even though I don't technically need to. It's nice to have heat right away.

[Disoblige]

Run a 120 V office space heater from the trunk (seats folded down if not SUV/hatch) using a block heater plug-in :rofl:

[killramos]

I know BMW offers a clean install built in coolant heater which while more complicated is kindof interesting.

[speedog]

My Dad used to put circulating coolant heaters in his vehicles, not sure if he does any more but those kept a flow of warmed coolant going through the engine. They worked much better than any ordinary block heaters.

[ExtraSlow]

Have seen tractors with gasoline powered coolant heaters. That's whatcha want.

[bjstare]

What you really want is to bulldoze your garage, put in floor heating and a lift in it when you rebuild.

[brucebanner]

Truck started up last night at the airport after sitting out in this deep freeze for the last week not plugged in. It wasn't thrilled about it but it fired right up.

No need to plug in :D

[killramos]

Have seen tractors with gasoline powered coolant heaters. That's whatcha want.

I see what you did there

[Mitsu3000gt]

What you really want is to bulldoze your garage, put in floor heating and a lift in it when you rebuild.

And a drain!

[KrisYYC]

So my car has been parked and plugged in since Tuesday evening. I have no reason to drive it today or even tomorrow. Would running it for a bit be worse for the battery than just leaving it? I have no need to drive anywhere but I'm tempted to fire it up.

[firebane]

So my car has been parked and plugged in since Tuesday evening. I have no reason to drive it today or even tomorrow. Would running it for a bit be worse for the battery than just leaving it? I have no need to drive anywhere but I'm tempted to fire it up.

Just leave it.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Yeah the less cold starts you can do the better.

[ExtraSlow]

Running it for under 1 full hour does more harm than good for any vehicle in any temperatures.

[KrisYYC]

Just leave it.


Yeah the less cold starts you can do the better.

Roger that. Thanks.

[speedog]

Running it for under 1 full hour does more harm than good for any vehicle in any temperatures.

Pfft say my current and past old high mileage GM's.

[killramos]

Running it for under 1 full hour does more harm than good for any vehicle in any temperatures.

I would say drives over an hour are under 1% of my vehicle usage.

[ExtraSlow]

Me too.

[firebane]

Pfft say my current and past old high mileage GM's.

Old trucks that can run on sludge and be ok

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

God dang 2013 Cummins with 152k won’t start this morning even with the booster on it, cranks fine, catchs for a second then dies. Meanwhile my 2006 Duramax with 301k starts up no issues without the booster. Should have known better than to trust this work truck unplugged overnight.

[bjstare]

Attached unheated garage was good enough for me. My car has sat since Monday, started up just fine this morning. Dash read -12.5C.