Will 1500W heat my garage?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Do you guys think a 1500W electric heater with a fan would heat my garage? It is detached, but appears to be very well insulated (during the recent -35C week, the coldest it ever got was -7C). I believe it's a standard double 20X20ft or very close to it. Ceilings are pretty low, maybe 9-10 feet. There is one large window as well but it doesn't open.

Originally the plan was to heat it 24/7 with Infra-red or a gas unit, but if the coldest it's going to get is -7C, that really isn't needed. What I do want is temporary heat for when I am working out there. Doesn't have to be a balmy 25C, I would be fine with 15-18C or so while I'm out there.

So, I think what I want is a powerful portable space heater. The "Mr. Heater" units look good, however I want to avoid gas if I can and buying/filling 1lb propane tanks all the time would be very annoying. Also, they removed the fan in 2018 so those models no longer blow air. I looked at the 'bullet' style heaters too but again they are all propane, and I don't know if you can even use them in a confined space since they would deplete all the oxygen.

I have an electrical panel in the garage, but no 240V as far as I can tell, and 1500W seems to be about the limit for electric 120V heaters. Would something like this heat my garage since its insulated, or am I wasting my time?: https://www.amazon.ca/Honeywell-Professional-Furnace-Ceramic-Heater/dp/B003UV8O7M/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=garage+heater&qid=1580402794&sr=8-3


Plan B is to just get a full blown natural gas or electric heater installed on the ceiling but if I can get away with something more suited to temporary use and avoid any potential fire hazards associated with a permanent install, that seems to be the better choice for me.

[G-ZUS]

Following

[jwslam]

I would think the concrete would continuously draw out a lot of the heat, as well as look at if your garage door is insulated per panel

Check if you have 2 circuits running and maybe you can run 2 x 1500W.
I would be your best bang-for-buck is oil filled radiators.

One year when it was -10Cish i was out in the garage after I had left one oil radiator on high out there for an hour to warm the space up. I was still not ok with taking off my jacket to do my car work. Didn't do an exact temp measurement.

[ExtraSlow]

At - 30c outside, after you have the overhead door open from driving in, 1500w will NOT get interior temps above 0c within a few hours. No way.

Might make the garage a little better overnight, but it will be subtle.

1500w is about 5000 BTU. That's less than 1/10th as much as a small home furnace.

[FunWheelDrive]

From my experience with a 24' by 24' garage and an 1500 watt electric heater, having it run 24/7 is the only way to make any sort of noticeable heat specially when it's really cold out. I would say no way my heater got the garage to 18 degrees but probably just above freezing. Also increased my electricity bill by probably $100 a month. Went to a 45,000 BTU gas heater and never looked back.

[Super_Geo]

1.5kW running 24/7 would cost ~$5/day... not sure I'd pay $150/m for a slightly warmer garage.

[pheoxs]

1.5kW running 24/7 would cost ~$5/day... not sure I'd pay $150/m for a slightly warmer garage.

The heater wouldn't run 100% load 24/7

[benyl]

1.5kW running 24/7 would cost ~$5/day... not sure I'd pay $150/m for a slightly warmer garage.

yeah, my boiler puts out 110K BTUs and costs maybe $20-$30 a month to run to keep the garage at 15C. good luck with 1500W.

Don't know what the specific heat capacity of a car is, but remember that you need to warm up the car from outside ambient to 15C. That's 1.5 Tonnes of metal to heat up that is cold soaked (except the engine).

[AndyL]

Thermal mass of the slab is the issue.

My old garage - basically a 3 car with 2 single doors. We ran a 2000w oil filled radiant heater. When it was cold it barely kept it above 0°, turned a fan on it when working out there to keep it warmer.

If the options there - winter heat I went solar, two windows got air to air solar heaters. Not pretty but got the garage toasty by noon for no real cost (small solar panel + PC fan, window gets light fan starts circulating) had an air to water too for a while but it was more headache.

[Cagare]

I have a 5000w 240V electric heater in my garage and it runs sparingly most of the time, keeping the garage at 7-9 degrees. During the recent cold snap it was running every time you opened a door, lowest it got was 3 degrees, after opening the garage door. Haven't noticed a large dent in the electric bill. It was going to be pricier to run a gas line to the garage since it's no where close.

They go on sale at Princess Auto very often and running 240V electrical line is not that pricey if you have the main panel in the garage already.

1500w would likely run constantly and probably will not keep pace in the colder weather. Ceiling mount is a lot safer as well as you can mount it away from anywhere it may cause a fire hazard.

[Darell_n]

20’ x 8’ office sea-can construction trailers have 4500 - 6000w electric heaters for a tiny space that’s very well insulated and zero air leakage.

[Cagare]

Yes, if I kept the doors closed it would stay at 9 degrees even in the extreme cold. Just my attic access is the only thing letting air escape. I hooked up a temperature sensor to my weather station and have long term temp data on it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks guys - sounds like I might need a bit more power.

And for clarity in case I was rambling too much in my OP, this is for temporary heat when I am out there working - not something I want to leave on 24/7 and not something I want to use to keep the garage at a certain temperature 24/7. If I know I am going to be working out there, I just want something that will warm it up for me for the duration I'm working. I don't care if it's running constantly for a few hours while I'm out there - power is pretty cheap. Using an online power calculator, if I am doing it right, says 2hr a day for an entire year, 1500W is only $75/yr which is way more than it will ever get used, especially since it would be off in the summer. If I bump it up to 5000W it says $244/yr which still strikes me as extremely cheap, but I imagine I'd need 240V for that much power.

The panel looks to be a sub-panel routed through the main 100 amp panel in the house, and there are a few 15 amp breakers pre-installed. The garage itself is finished & primed with an insulated door and attic and I imagine it's fairly air-tight.

Further research on the big infra red heaters like Calcana suggests they are more suited to much higher ceilings and warehouse applications than a small residential garage, and some people say they can damage car paint, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. It would be nice to just flip a switch on the wall and get instant heat though.

[sabad66]

I think you will never truly be satisfied with an electric heater like this. Do it right with a proper garage heater especially if you're planning on staying there a while. I believe they can be had for around $2000-2500 fully installed.

[Maxx Mazda]

I have an attached, finished, insulted 2 car garage and used to run a 1500W electric heater. To answer your question, no it’s not enough. I went to a 5000W 240V unit from princess auto for like $89 on sale and it’s amazing. Running 240V to the garage was super simple too. Haven’t even noticed a jump in my power bill, and I run it a lot so that when I’m working in there it’s a nice 21*C

[spike98]

The heater wouldn't run 100% load 24/7

Wanna bet? It will definitely on days where it is sub zero. The only thing those spaces heaters are good for is bringing small rooms up a few degrees. Relying on one in your garage will just end up with you being broke. Payback on a gas unit vs electric is just over 2 years. Sooner if you do most of the work yourself.

[Darell_n]

Just buy a Tesla and leave it’s heat on with the windows down. Bam, free garage heat! Payback in a quick 962 years.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Maybe I should just mine some bitcoin out there :rofl:

Anyway, sounds like a ceiling mounted 240V heater might be the way to go both in terms of cost, and not having to worry about natural gas.

[benyl]

Just buy a Tesla and leave it’s heat on with the windows down. Bam, free garage heat! Payback in a quick 962 years.

This would work as the Tesla has an 8KW heater.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I have an attached, finished, insulted 2 car garage and used to run a 1500W electric heater. To answer your question, no it’s not enough. I went to a 5000W 240V unit from princess auto for like $89 on sale and it’s amazing. Running 240V to the garage was super simple too. Haven’t even noticed a jump in my power bill, and I run it a lot so that when I’m working in there it’s a nice 21*C

Did you do it yourself or did you have an electrician come by? I would need an electrician haha.

[botox]

Did you do it yourself or did you have an electrician come by? I would need an electrician haha.
Ditto on one 240v electric heater if you don't need 24/7 heated garage. 15-20 minutes even in the coldest weather it can get the garage to a decent working temp and in about an hour on max you'll be in a t-shirt.

If you have a electrical panel, there isn't 2 slots free? It's pretty easy adding a breaker.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Ditto on one 240v electric heater if you don't need 24/7 heated garage. 15-20 minutes even in the coldest weather it can get the garage to a decent working temp and in about an hour on max you'll be in a t-shirt.

If you have a electrical panel, there isn't 2 slots free? It's pretty easy adding a breaker.

That sounds perfect to be honest, and all I'd likely use it for. Maybe if we had an other week of -30, I would set it to keep the garage at +5C or something which I don't imagine would be too big of a deal. Other than that, I would just use it when I was out there (or that is my vision anyway). I am not concerned about $200/year or so of added electricity costs, and I'd be surprised if it was that bad. I also prefer the idea of not having gas/propane or an open flame in the garage.

Yes there are lots of slots free on the garage electrical panel. The only pre-installed breakers though I think are two or three 15 AMPs. Adding a breaker is easy but I don't know about the 240V part - I'll be paying someone to do that + install the heater whatever route I take.

I was wondering though, if its super cold out and you heat the garage from -7C to +20C relatively quickly, then turn the heat off when you're done, obviously the garage will stay warm for a while but it'll eventually drop back down to -7C. Is that going to cause any condensation/frost issues?

[Maxx Mazda]

The wiring is super easy. Cost me $60 total for 10-3 wire, a breaker, and a wall outlet. Tons of videos on YouTube.

[botox]

I've ran this setup for many years and no issue with condensation. Only issue I had was when it was super cold and there is snow/ice from the cars that melted and drained to the garage door that created a ice seal. So then the next day you open the door there's a big snap from being frozen shut. May not happen to you depending how your garage drains but just try to remember to get rid of any snow or ice before you heat up the garage. From that I got into a habit of kicking off the big chunk of ice that usually builds up on the mudflaps before entering the garage.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Yes there are lots of slots free on the garage electrical panel. The only pre-installed breakers though I think are two or three 15 AMPs. Adding a breaker is easy but I don't know about the 240V part - I'll be paying someone to do that + install the heater whatever route I take.



Post a pic of the garage panel (or model# of the box) so we can tell you if it's set up for 240V service or not. Removing the front panel would be ideal to see the wiring setup.

[Darell_n]

That sounds perfect to be honest, and all I'd likely use it for. Maybe if we had an other week of -30, I would set it to keep the garage at +5C or something which I don't imagine would be too big of a deal. Other than that, I would just use it when I was out there (or that is my vision anyway). I am not concerned about $200/year or so of added electricity costs, and I'd be surprised if it was that bad. I also prefer the idea of not having gas/propane or an open flame in the garage.

Yes there are lots of slots free on the garage electrical panel. The only pre-installed breakers though I think are two or three 15 AMPs. Adding a breaker is easy but I don't know about the 240V part - I'll be paying someone to do that + install the heater whatever route I take.

I was wondering though, if its super cold out and you heat the garage from -7C to +20C relatively quickly, then turn the heat off when you're done, obviously the garage will stay warm for a while but it'll eventually drop back down to -7C. Is that going to cause any condensation/frost issues?

You are not adding any moisture to the air when you heat then cool the garage, unless you park a cold vehicle inside and the snow melts off it.

[ThePenIsMightier]

You will maybe reach 10 degC which honestly, should be fine and you'll get higher on the days that aren't extreme.
240V is better and that's what I do, but it's certainly not necessary. Working at 10 °C is quite manageable and tolerable. Get a hoodie and grow a pair. It's >>>>> better than -29degC.
Even with my heavily insulated (spray foamed) attached garage and 240V heater I still only choose to hold it at 10-12 degC.

[Maxx Mazda]

This is the one I got on sale for less than $100:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-600w-240v-heavy-duty-heater-with-thermostat/A-p8870362e

Gets me to 21* in less than an hour from a dead cold ass garage.

[benyl]

Found this on a website. Here is the theoretical. I am sure people will say in practice that a 1500W heater is enough. haha.

https://www.danleysgarageworld.com/garage-heater/


For those that want a more accurate measurement and don’t mind doing a bit more math, then you need to calculate the amount of air by volume inside your garage. If we use or original example of 20 by 24 garage and multiply it by the height of the ceilings – let’s say 8 feet – then you get the number of cubic feet of your air. 480 square feet multiplied by 8 feet is 3,840 cubic feet.

For increased accuracy, you then need to multiply the R-value of the insulation into the cubic foot number. R-values on the outside of the home can range anywhere from 13 in warm climates to 27 in cold ones.

If you have really good insulation you can simplify this number to 0.5, average insulation to 1, weak to 1.5, and 5 if you have no insulation. Take this number and multiply it by both the cubic feet and the amount of temperature rise that you want. Roughly the formula comes out to this: (Insulation * Cubic Feet of Garage * Temperature Rise) / 1.6 = # of BTU.

In an area of 3,840 cubic feet, with a 35 degree temperature rise with average insulation (or 1) would come out to this: (1 * 3840 * 35) / 1.6 = 84,000 BTU. To get this down into watts, merely divide the amount of BTUs by 3.41. At 84,000 BTU this comes out to approximately 24,633 watts.

20x20x9 = 3600

-7C to 15C = 22 C = 72F

(1 * 3600 * 72) / 1.6 = 162,000 BTU = 47.5K Watts

47.5 KW / 1.5KW = 31 hours

The funny thing about garages is that you will likely be able to heat the air to comfortable, but as soon as you turn off the heat source, the slab will drop the temp fast.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Post a pic of the garage panel (or model# of the box) so we can tell you if it's set up for 240V service or not. Removing the front panel would be ideal to see the wiring setup.

I'll try grab a pic. I actually think I recall the builder telling me it's pre-wired for an electric car charging port, so I might have 240V there already and just need to add an outlet.

- - - Updated - - -


This is the one I got on sale for less than $100:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-600w-240v-heavy-duty-heater-with-thermostat/A-p8870362e

Gets me to 21* in less than an hour from a dead cold ass garage.

Oh ok so you have a portable one rather than a permanently fixed one? That would probably work for me too.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I'll try grab a pic. I actually think I recall the builder telling me it's pre-wired for an electric car charging port, so I might have 240V there already and just need to add an outlet.


That's definitely a good sign, EV chargers are all 240V so you probably just need to add an outlet. Adding an outlet is dead easy.

[Mitsu3000gt]

That's definitely a good sign, EV chargers are all 240V so you probably just need to add an outlet. Adding an outlet is dead easy.

I found a pic....I think that little box to the left is what they told me was the EV rough-in.

89275

89276

[arcticcat522]

You got power for days by the looks of it. What you want is a simple task for an electrician. Honestly you could do it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

You got power for days by the looks of it. What you want is a simple task for an electrician. Honestly you could do it.

Good to hear.

For me it's mostly about the time & effort. If the job takes me half a day and multiple trips to Home Depot because I don't really know what I'm doing, but an electrician can do it for me correctly, safely and quickly, I'd rather pay someone to do it unless the cost is prohibitive.

So is that little box to the left my 240V? The breaker in the very top of the pic is double pole 100 AMP and the bottom also has a double pole 100 AMP (labeled "sub panel") along with a single pole 15 AMP for the garage lights and plugs.

[never]

Found this on a website. Here is the theoretical. I am sure people will say in practice that a 1500W heater is enough. haha.

https://www.danleysgarageworld.com/garage-heater/



20x20x9 = 3600

-7C to 15C = 22 C = 72F

(1 * 3600 * 72) / 1.6 = 162,000 BTU = 47.5K Watts

47.5 KW / 1.5KW = 31 hours

The funny thing about garages is that you will likely be able to heat the air to comfortable, but as soon as you turn off the heat source, the slab will drop the temp fast.

Just a minor point but going from -7C to 15C is just under a 40F change (about 19F to 59F), not 72F. So that cuts your time almost in half.

[sabad66]

Good to hear.

For me it's mostly about the time & effort. If the job takes me half a day and multiple trips to Home Depot because I don't really know what I'm doing, but an electrician can do it for me correctly, safely and quickly, I'd rather pay someone to do it unless the cost is prohibitive.

So is that little box to the left my 240V? The breaker in the very top of the pic is double pole 100 AMP and the bottom also has a double pole 100 AMP (labeled "sub panel") along with a single pole 15 AMP for the garage lights and plugs.

Just to cover your ass, make sure the electrician pulls a permit for it. I know some people will probably say fuck that, but when you're dealing with an electric heater of all things, the last thing you want is a fire and insurance deciding not to pay out cuz you didn't have it inspected.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Just to cover your ass, make sure the electrician pulls a permit for it. I know some people will probably say fuck that, but when you're dealing with an electric heater of all things, the last thing you want is a fire and insurance deciding not to pay out cuz you didn't have it inspected.

Good advice, thanks. Makes sense.

I sent an email to the "electricman" who seemed to have very positive google reviews. We'll see what the quote is like.

[Maxx Mazda]

Good to hear.

For me it's mostly about the time & effort. If the job takes me half a day and multiple trips to Home Depot because I don't really know what I'm doing, but an electrician can do it for me correctly, safely and quickly, I'd rather pay someone to do it unless the cost is prohibitive.

So is that little box to the left my 240V? The breaker in the very top of the pic is double pole 100 AMP and the bottom also has a double pole 100 AMP (labeled "sub panel") along with a single pole 15 AMP for the garage lights and plugs.

The whole panel is 240V that’s what comes into your house. A normal breaker uses one phase which is 120V, a dual pole breaker uses both phases so 240V.

Yeah I use that portable one since putting in a plug was so easy and I can put the heater away in the summer when I’m not using it.

Honestly man, there’s TONS of YouTube tutorials out there. I didn’t even shut off power to my panel when I wired it in and I only zapped myself once!

[benyl]

Just a minor point but going from -7C to 15C is just under a 40F change (about 19F to 59F), not 72F. So that cuts your time almost in half.

I stand corrected. 15 hours is still a long time. haha

[never]

I stand corrected. 15 hours is still a long time. haha

Haha, yup...only have to plan a day in advance to get it up to temp!

Just get a wood burning stove and you're set!

[ExtraSlow]

Haha, yup...only have to plan a day in advance to get it up to temp!

Just get a wood burning stove and you're set!

The studs are wood, right?

[never]

The studs are wood, right?

I don't think you'd want to burn those...I'd suggest using other wood sources.

[rage2]

Out of curiosity why electric heater? Gas is cheap as fuck, cheaper than electric heating.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I found a pic....I think that little box to the left is what they told me was the EV rough-in.



Yep, that's a 100A 240V subpanel so you are absolutely golden. The rough-in for EV appears to be a 50A/240 (can't really read the breaker, it's the 240V double breaker at the bottom left. It also is turned on for some reason.) so if it's in a convenient location, you could likely just install a 240V plug for your heater in that silver outlet box. I bet there's just some capped wires behind the faceplate. Shut off the bottom-left breaker labeled "sub-panel" (or even the main breaker at the top for extra safety) before removing the faceplate.

To do that, you can either:

1. Install a wall plug in the box that matches the breaker amperage into the box and change your heater's male plug to match that plug, or,
2. Install a wall plug in the box that matches the one already on whatever heater you buy, and replace the breaker with one that matches the amperage rating of that plug.

[killramos]

Out of curiosity why electric heater? Gas is cheap as fuck, cheaper than electric heating.

Up front cost?

Depending on usage it could take a lot of time to pay out running a gas line to the garage and the install and venting issues with a gas heater.

Electric is plug & play.

[rage2]

Up front cost?

Depending on usage it could take a lot of time to pay out running a gas line to the garage and the install and venting issues with a gas heater.

Electric is plug & play.
Until you need 240V service haha.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Until you need 240V service haha.

He's got 100A/240V garage service already, so if he's only periodically heating, electric is likely the path of least resistance.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't think you'd want to burn those...I'd suggest using other wood sources.

Nah, burn em today.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Out of curiosity why electric heater? Gas is cheap as fuck, cheaper than electric heating.

I'm leaning that way because:

- Looks like electric is around $150 for the heater itself vs $500+ for gas. I don't really care about the cost as both seem pretty cheap for the units themselves, but it would still probably be 5+ years before I recovered any cost savings with occasional use.
- I'd have to run a gas line from the house to the garage (not sure what that costs), but I already have 240V in the garage (I think I just need an outlet from what I'm learning here)
- Gas makes me more nervous from a safety perspective (flames, venting, CO, etc.)
- The cost of electricity is so low that I probably won't even notice it on my bill, even though it might be more than gas. Running a 5000W heater occasionally is not even going to be $100/year if the power calculator I used is correct.

I'm not completely opposed to gas, but electric just seems to suit my situation better. If I wanted to run it 24/7 in the winter months, gas might make more sense, but I plan to use it only on the really cold weeks, and then only as needed for a few hours at a time while I'm working out there. I'm also undecided if I want a roof mounted one, or if I should just go buy a $150 portable one from Princess Auto and be done with it.


Yep, that's a 100A 240V subpanel so you are absolutely golden. The rough-in for EV appears to be a 50A/240 (can't really read the breaker, it's the 240V double breaker at the bottom left. It also is turned on for some reason.) so if it's in a convenient location, you could likely just install a 240V plug for your heater in that silver outlet box. I bet there's just some capped wires behind the faceplate. Shut off the bottom-left breaker labeled "sub-panel" (or even the main breaker at the top for extra safety) before removing the faceplate.

To do that, you can either:

1. Install a wall plug in the box that matches the breaker amperage into the box and change your heater's male plug to match that plug, or,
2. Install a wall plug in the box that matches the one already on whatever heater you buy, and replace the breaker with one that matches the amperage rating of that plug.

Perfect. I'm glad this is turning out to be much less of an ordeal than I originally thought. Thank you for all the info.

Here are close ups of the panel, sorry I just cropped the smartphone pic so its pretty bad:

Top set:
89278

Bottom Set:
89279

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Wait, that's a 100A outgoing feed? Is there a second subpanel in the garage somewhere? That silver box may just be a junction leading that 100A somewhere else, instead of being a rough-in.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Wait, that's a 100A outgoing feed? Is there a second subpanel in the garage somewhere? That silver box may just be a junction leading that 100A somewhere else, instead of being a rough-in.

That is the only box in the garage (other than the little metal box to the left). The top and bottom both have those dual-pole 100A breakers. It is wired through my house panel, which is also 100A from what I was told.

I thought maybe the top 100A breakers were for the panel itself, and the bottom 100A breaker was for the little metal box that I assume is the rough in for the EV charger, but I really have no idea.

[bjstare]

I've already got a gas line in my garage... previous owner had a heater/furnace out there at some point.

Given that's the case, I'm assuming I should be strongly considering gas heater? Anyone factor in maintenance and reliability? afaik nothing to really go wrong with an electric heater, whereas gas has more components that can break.

[ExtraSlow]

I've already got a gas line in my garage... previous owner had a heater/furnace out there at some point.

Given that's the case, I'm assuming I should be strongly considering gas heater? Anyone factor in maintenance and reliability? afaik nothing to really go wrong with an electric heater, whereas gas has more components that can break.

If gas line is in garage, use gas heat. Used household furnace, or whatever. Gas is MUCH cheaper per BTU

[never]

That is the only box in the garage (other than the little metal box to the left). The top and bottom both have those dual-pole 100A breakers. It is wired through my house panel, which is also 100A from what I was told.

I thought maybe the top 100A breakers were for the panel itself, and the bottom 100A breaker was for the little metal box that I assume is the rough in for the EV charger, but I really have no idea.

Turn off the breaker, open up the junction box, and take a look.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

That is the only box in the garage (other than the little metal box to the left). The top and bottom both have those dual-pole 100A breakers. It is wired through my house panel, which is also 100A from what I was told.

I thought maybe the top 100A breakers were for the panel itself, and the bottom 100A breaker was for the little metal box that I assume is the rough in for the EV charger, but I really have no idea.

Yeah, the top 100A breaker is incoming power for the panel, the bottom 100A is a feed to somewhere else. It certainly looks like that 100A feed is going to the silver utility box, perhaps the EV rough-in was more intended for a big hard-wired unit (eg Clipper Creek CS-100) than the installation of a traditional 50A wall plug. As mentioned above, shut the breaker off and take a look in the box to see what's what.

[Darell_n]

The garage is feeding the house.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The garage is feeding the house.

I wondered about that, but I figured 100A was a bit low for main feed in a newer build - aren't they usually 200A these days?

At any rate, if the entire power in his house goes off when he flips that breaker, he'll know for sure haha.

[benyl]

Probably did the calculations wrong again.

For the 40F rise, it should take the 5.9KW heater from Princess Auto 4.7 hours to heat. The loaded electric rate of $0.18 KWh gives you $5 of electricity. The same 40F rise would cost $0.60 for the loaded $7 rate per GJ of nat gas.

It would be interesting to calculate the heat loss of a garage when it is -30 out to see how much it costs to maintain the temp.... but I am not that interested. haha

[rage2]

I've already got a gas line in my garage... previous owner had a heater/furnace out there at some point.

Given that's the case, I'm assuming I should be strongly considering gas heater? Anyone factor in maintenance and reliability? afaik nothing to really go wrong with an electric heater, whereas gas has more components that can break.
In 15 years with the calcana unit, I’ve had it serviced once. The control board went on it. $125 parts and labor last year. I leave my garage door open when I’m out snow blowing or kids playing out front so the garage gets cold. 15 mins and it’s back to room temperature. Intake is inside the garage so when car melts it’s taking out all that moisture. No humidity problems in the garage.

I leave my garage at 22C throughout the winter. I’ve turned it off when we’ve travelled and no difference on the bill so I don’t even bother turning it down ever. Cold summer night? It’s going. Honestly it’s been so maintenance free I don’t even notice it till it broke last year.

Sorry Greta.

[sabad66]

I've already got a gas line in my garage... previous owner had a heater/furnace out there at some point.

Given that's the case, I'm assuming I should be strongly considering gas heater? Anyone factor in maintenance and reliability? afaik nothing to really go wrong with an electric heater, whereas gas has more components that can break.

no experience personally but i'm looking into one for next winter. If you already have the gas line, i would think you could get a good Lennox/other top brand for about $1500-1800 installed. My guy quoted $2099 for a Lennox but he needs to run a new gas line.

Curious about reliability on these things as well. Hope it's not the same deal as high efficiency home furnaces where they break all the time.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I've already got a gas line in my garage... previous owner had a heater/furnace out there at some point.

Given that's the case, I'm assuming I should be strongly considering gas heater? Anyone factor in maintenance and reliability? afaik nothing to really go wrong with an electric heater, whereas gas has more components that can break.

Agreed with the mob, use gas if you have it. My Reznor ceiling-mount forced air heater has been great, I got it used from an oilfield company that was using it to heat a quonset and then sat in unheated storage for years. I replaced the venter motor ($50) a couple years ago as it was noisy and the bearings were starting to go. Garage heaters are pretty basic, nothing like the high-efficiency house furnaces.

[ExtraSlow]

no experience personally but i'm looking into one for next winter. If you already have the gas line, i would think you could get a good Lennox/other top brand for about $1500-1800 installed. My guy quoted $2099 for a Lennox but he needs to run a new gas line.

Curious about reliability on these things as well. Hope it's not the same deal as high efficiency home furnaces where they break all the time.

Bro, used mid-efficiency furnace for $150.
89282

[Cagare]

100% if gas is next to or in the garage already, use that. I had to run a line 40 feet across my yard which was an added cost on top of the heater itself otherwise it would be gas. I think I was looking at a few extra thousand, and I don't plan to be in my current house more than 5 years so the investment was not worth it for me.

For electrical main panel is garage, sub panel is in the house. The connection to the garage could likely support a 200amp panel, but that would require a panel swap and is not necessary. You can support a full home, even with an air conditioner on 100 amp service if needed.

- - - Updated - - -


Bro, used mid-efficiency furnace for $150.


Oh, and if you are in a large garage, just get a used furnace. Very common with larger shops back home when space is not an issue.

[ExtraSlow]

You can mount the furnace on the ceiling, and have storage underneath.

[sabad66]

Bro, used mid-efficiency furnace for $150.
89282

the thought of a used furnace/garage heater never even crossed my mind but that's actually sounds like a great option.

i do wonder if professional HVAC guys would install a used furnace though? don't they have some sort of rule where you can't add a new furnace/heater unless it's high efficiency?

[Cagare]

the thought of a used furnace/garage heater never even crossed my mind but that's actually sounds like a great option.

i do wonder if professional HVAC guys would install a used furnace though? don't they have some sort of rule where you can't add a new furnace/heater unless it's high efficiency?

They will install. Really the biggest risk I would imagine is around the gas ticket, so as long as it is functioning properly then it is fine. A home furnace is typically overkill for most garages, but really it's no different than installing a smaller garage style heater, which people install used all the time.

The clearance requirements for the units may be different too, and I really don't know if you could suspend it from the ceiling, I mean, if you built a shelf for it possibly. good questions on that side.

[bjstare]

You can definitely suspend home furnaces from the ceiling. They're designed that way so they can be installed in a basement prior to the floor being poured/finished (in new build houses).


I'm not into spending >$1k for a calcana heater, as we'll probably only be in this house for another 5 years ish, and I don't have the floor space for a used furnace. I'd probably be looking for something closer to this I think https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/80-000-btu-natural-gas-unit-heater-with-lp-conversion-kit-and-thermostat/A-p8547085e

[ExtraSlow]

You can definitely suspend home furnaces from the ceiling. They're designed that way so they can be installed in a basement prior to the floor being poured/finished (in new build houses).


I'm not into spending >$1k for a calcana heater, as we'll probably only be in this house for another 5 years ish, and I don't have the floor space for a used furnace. I'd probably be looking for something closer to this I think https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/80-000-btu-natural-gas-unit-heater-with-lp-conversion-kit-and-thermostat/A-p8547085e

You could downsize to the 50,000 BTU one and still be pretty happy. Save a couple bucks on purchase price, and it's smaller.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The "Electricman" is coming on Sunday to install a 6000W heater, I'll let you guys know how it goes. Looks like the heater + install is only going to cost me around $600. Thanks again for all your help and input.

[ExtraSlow]

The "Electricman" is coming on Sunday to install a 6000W heater, I'll let you guys know how it goes. Looks like the heater + install is only going to cost me around $600. Thanks again for all your help and input.

what a deal.

[bjstare]

You could downsize to the 50,000 BTU one and still be pretty happy. Save a couple bucks on purchase price, and it's smaller.

Last I checked the 80k BTU is on sale and 50k isn't, currently it's $20 cheaper to get the 80k haha.

[ExtraSlow]

Last I checked the 80k BTU is on sale and 50k isn't, currently it's $20 cheaper to get the 80k haha.

Both are currently on sale:
https://www.princessauto.com/en/search?Dy=1&Nty=1&Ntt=natural+gas+unit+heater
89308

[ExtremeSi]

Just to add to this, I also bought a 1500W heater first and found it to be pretty useless. Decided to wire 240V into my garage, bought a 5000W portable heater and it's been great. I just use it when I am working out in the garage and it heats it up nicely. Wiring the 240V wasn't too hard, but if you are more comfortable getting a pro to do it then $600 isn't too bad. I did get a permit when I did mine just to cover my ass if something happens and the permit+inspection costs $150 on it's own.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Just to add to this, I also bought a 1500W heater first and found it to be pretty useless. Decided to wire 240V into my garage, bought a 5000W portable heater and it's been great. I just use it when I am working out in the garage and it heats it up nicely. Wiring the 240V wasn't too hard, but if you are more comfortable getting a pro to do it then $600 isn't too bad. I did get a permit when I did mine just to cover my ass if something happens and the permit+inspection costs $150 on it's own.

Yeah $600 seemed quite cheap to me for the 240V + labor + heater itself installed on the wall. I'm also getting them to install a thermostat control. I guess all it is at the end of the day is a resistance coil and a fan haha.

The installer is a Master Electrician had he said his insurance covers everything, but I think I'll still pay for the city to come out and inspect it to cover my ass. I was told that was $257 though.

[ExtremeSi]

Yeah $600 seemed quite cheap to me for the 240V + labor + heater itself installed on the wall. I'm also getting them to install a thermostat control. I guess all it is at the end of the day is a resistance coil and a fan haha.

The installer is a Master Electrician had he said his insurance covers everything, but I think I'll still pay for the city to come out and inspect it to cover my ass. I was told that was $257 though.

Ya it's not really hard to install. It was $150 for me when I did it 2 years ago which included me going downtown to get a permit and then 2 inspections. So it may have gone up or the electrician is adding his fee to it.

[Cagare]

The trouble with the permit inspection is not the electrical work itself. It's what inspector you end up getting and if they see anything else, aside from their inspection. It's uncommon but there have been some bad stories in the past regarding this.

Do what you think is best for your own home, but this jurisdiction is over permitted on so many levels.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The trouble with the permit inspection is not the electrical work itself. It's what inspector you end up getting and if they see anything else, aside from their inspection. It's uncommon but there have been some bad stories in the past regarding this.

Do what you think is best for your own home, but this jurisdiction is over permitted on so many levels.

The only thing I am worried about is if on the off chance this heater causes a fire or some sort of property damage, I want insurance to still cover it - I assume for that they would be looking to see if it was done by the book before honoring a claim.

[ExtremeSi]

The only thing I am worried about is if on the off chance this heater causes a fire or some sort of property damage, I want insurance to still cover it - I assume for that they would be looking to see if it was done by the book before honoring a claim.

That's what I was afraid of as well. The inspector did make me change my outlet box since the one I had was too small for his liking. Not expensive, just inconvenient. And he did talk to me about my shed too which was totally unrelated so there is that chance that he may notice something else on your property.

[Mitsu3000gt]

That's what I was afraid of as well. The inspector did make me change my outlet box since the one I had was too small for his liking. Not expensive, just inconvenient. And he did talk to me about my shed too which was totally unrelated so there is that chance that he may notice something else on your property.

Yeah I think I'll bend over and pay for a city sticker - better safe than sorry.

[Cagare]

That's what I was afraid of as well. The inspector did make me change my outlet box since the one I had was too small for his liking. Not expensive, just inconvenient. And he did talk to me about my shed too which was totally unrelated so there is that chance that he may notice something else on your property.

It's so bad sometimes in this City that renovation contractors often joke about it.

[Zero102]

I know the original question has been answered but it seems people are still debating the merits of various solutions so I'll throw in my opinion here too.

I had a 19x22 attached garage on my last house. Half had 9' ceilings and half was 11' with a bonus room overtop, only one wall connected to the house and it had a (poorly) insulated door. I installed 2x1500W ceramic radiant heaters on the ceiling. When I wanted to go work out there I'd just turn both heaters on and head right out, no waiting. Radiant heaters are mostly about heating you and not heating the entire space (although they will do it if given long enough), so in my case I put them on the high part of the ceiling and aimed them so that they covered a little more than that half of the garage. If you were working under them you could head out there with no jacket and work comfortably even when it was stupid cold outside. They were cheap to buy (~$50 each) and cost very little to run because for the most part they were only on when I was actively working out there, so maybe 30-90 minutes at a time. In my case I already had a subpanel in the garage so running the electrical was trivial.

The big downside to this solution is if you have to work under a car or something where you don't have line of sight to the heaters, then they basically do nothing for you. A couple times I ran them for 3-4 hours before going out to warm up the entire garage and they did an acceptable job of that but the slab was still stone cold and I suspect they'd take 24 hours to fully warm that up.

[killramos]

Didn't feel like starting a new thread,

Anyone had a gas line run recently and have a contractor recommendation / ballpark cost?

I don't have an NG hookup on my deck for my BBQ so I would like to get one run to it before spring.

It also turns out that my Deck is also my garage, so while I'm at it I'm going to have them rough in a NG tee into the garage to give me the option of a NG garage heater down the road ( I doubt this costs me much at this point ).

TIA

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I can only personally recommend against Josh the Gasfitter. Many seem to have good experiences with that outfit, they showed up a day late and had two bumblefuck apprentices do my install and it failed inspection twice.

[ShermanEF9]

I just got one of these. throw it on 5 minutes before going out, and my garage is warmer than inside my house.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhFr0s03mgvmJES4N97x7c8QI9N1HD_Ly4a8PegNoZNb0fpygzlutbimsxp_iUJ4eZHYamwvelcW5DDt9zKi7PN1xNdRhhzPlNttei1e0P9sSneh5xidHS2A&usqp=CAE

[bjstare]

I just got one of these. throw it on 5 minutes before going out, and my garage is warmer than inside my house.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhFr0s03mgvmJES4N97x7c8QI9N1HD_Ly4a8PegNoZNb0fpygzlutbimsxp_iUJ4eZHYamwvelcW5DDt9zKi7PN1xNdRhhzPlNttei1e0P9sSneh5xidHS2A&usqp=CAE

Is it also full of Carbon Monoxide?