Going to AA boys

[Toilet_X]

I want you all to know that reading the covid mental health thread, and watching you guys support each other has put me in the direction to finally get help. Wont be postin much in the scotch thread anymore unforts.

Thanks fellas

[ExtraSlow]

Take care of yourself brother. Also remember,anyone who is only your friend when you are drinking isn't really your friend at all. Find those people in your life who support you making healthy choices, and support you when you do you best but fail, and keep the communication open with those people.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I want you all to know that reading the covid mental health thread, and watching you guys support each other has put me in the direction to finally get help. Wont be postin much in the scotch thread anymore unforts.

Thanks fellas

Best of luck to you pal. We're here to help if you need anything.

[max_boost]

Props take care of yourself man.

[BavarianBeast]

Good for you man! While I don’t think AA is the best option to sobriety, eliminating or reducing booze is a huge step forward in anyone’s life.

If the 12 step program doesn’t work for you, don’t forget their are a lot of other options.

Cheers

[ExtraSlow]

Good for you man! While I don’t think AA is the best option to sobriety, eliminating or reducing booze is a huge step forward in anyone’s life.

If the 12 step program doesn’t work for you, don’t forget their are a lot of other options.

Cheers
Yeah, I was trying to think of a supportive way to say that same thing. AA is one of many good methods. If you find it doesn't work for you, that doesn't necessarily mean you are the problem..

[BavarianBeast]

Agreed. I just think the whole idea of surrendering yourself helpless and accepting that you need help from a higher power is bullshit. The power is within ourselves. Believe in yourself and your own wellbeing!

Anyways, good luck to you toilet.

[Toilet_X]

I know, i dont like the higher power stuff, but i gotta do somethin. Limiting alcohol just isnt working. No offense taken buds.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, you gotta find what works for you.

[vengie]

It takes an incredible amount of strength to recognize and admit you have a problem and to begin actively fixing it.

Best of luck to you, you'll come out a better man on the other side :thumbsup:

[ThePenIsMightier]

Pffft! Quitter.






...






Good luck, of course

[Toilet_X]

^ ill come out of this gayer. Dont you fret.

[ExtraSlow]

^ ill come out of this gayer. Dont you fret.

Interested.

[ThePenIsMightier]

^ ill come out of this gayer. Dont you fret.

Probably, LoL! You'll pick up some other vice like smoking or crank. Then you'll be a chain smoking, pole smoking boringest guy at parties... But itchy.

[tirebob]

Good for you man, and don’t sweat the higher power stuff! So many seem to think that means you have to become churchy or something like that. People just have different names for the same things. Some call it God. Some call it fate. Some call it energy. Some call it nature. Some say karma. There really is no name it can’t be called. It can mean anything to you. It has nothing to do with accepting a being pulling yourself strings unless that is what you believe. All it means is accepting something larger outside of your control, and anyone who thinks they control everything is deluded. Basically accepting that is a huge step forward in being able to control what you can control, and that is your drinking.

All that really matters is that you are trying to make your life better and if anyone tries to bring you down for that in any way, move the fuck on from them and do what is best for you!

[SJW]

^ ill come out of this gayer. Dont you fret.

I'm not gay but opportunity knocks.

[born2workoncars]

Doesn't AA have like a 90%+ failure/relapse rate? surprised people still invest time in practices like this.

[The_Rural_Juror]

What are some alternatives?

[ExtraSlow]

Doesn't AA have like a 90%+ failure/relapse rate? surprised people still invest time in practices like this.
I don't know if it's 90%, and the exact percentage isn't really that important, but yes, it has a high "failure" rate. Partly, that's because of how they define failure.
From a health perspective, if you go from being drunk 300+ days a year to under 12, that's a really huge health benefit, but under the AA program, there's no grey area, that's a failure.

I can't discuss specific alternatives, but there are many out there. The thing is, each person may need something different, but they only need one thing that works.
You can do your own search: https://www.google.com/search?q=alternatives+to+aa+in+canada

[Toilet_X]

Regardless of failure rate, its a shot im willing to take. Costs me nothin but an hour or two a session.

[03ozwhip]

Its more about will power than anything. I've been through this many times with many people. Do whatever you think is necessary to quit, even if its AA.

In the end, its not up to what someone will say to you that will help you quit, but what you'll do for yourself. Good luck dude, I always like to see things like this happen.

[ExtraSlow]

Regardless of failure rate, its a shot im willing to take. Costs me nothin but an hour or two a session.

I fully support you man. Go get em.

[tirebob]

Doesn't AA have like a 90%+ failure/relapse rate? surprised people still invest time in practices like this.

Addiction is a real thing and nothing can just beat it for everyone. If it were that easy, we would have no addicts. Just because some numbers fail should it mean nobody tries? I know people who had their lives saved with these programs and I know people who have succumbed to their addictions. People keep trying because they want to quit. Other people go because they are being convinced to go but they really are not ready to conquer their addictions. In the end it comes down to if the person is ready to do what it takes, but needing a hand doing so is what these programs do.

I don't understand your issue with this but coming on to a thread where someone is trying to conquer something serious and important to them and then essentially shooting their efforts down like this is pretty ignorant.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Regardless of failure rate, its a shot im willing to take. Costs me nothin but an hour or two a session.

I hear that meditation can help with the stress. It doesn't cost anything either. Maybe you will come out of it with the mindfulness of a Shaolin monk.

[max_boost]

Addiction is a real thing and nothing can just beat it for everyone. If it were that easy, we would have no addicts. Just because some numbers fail should it mean nobody tries? I know people who had their lives saved with these programs and I know people who have succumbed to their addictions. People keep trying because they want to quit. Other people go because they are being convinced to go but they really are not ready to conquer their addictions. In the end it comes down to if the person is ready to do what it takes, but needing a hand doing so is what these programs do.

I don't understand your issue with this but coming on to a thread where someone is trying to conquer something serious and important to them and then essentially shooting their efforts down like this is pretty ignorant.

:werd: While I don't think born2cars said anything too mean, "What you've yet to learn, life will find a way to teach you". So just because it hasn't happened to you (which I hope it doesn't), don't think it won't/can't. Life is crazy like that.

Sometimes it's baby steps, sometimes it's giant step but the key is to keep moving forward.

[born2workoncars]

Good for you man, and don’t sweat the higher power stuff! So many seem to think that means you have to become churchy or something like that. People just have different names for the same things. Some call it God. Some call it fate. Some call it energy. Some call it nature. Some say karma. There really is no name it can’t be called. It can mean anything to you. It has nothing to do with accepting a being pulling yourself strings unless that is what you believe. All it means is accepting something larger outside of your control, and anyone who thinks they control everything is deluded. Basically accepting that is a huge step forward in being able to control what you can control, and that is your drinking.

All that really matters is that you are trying to make your life better and if anyone tries to bring you down for that in any way, move the fuck on from them and do what is best for you!

Before any further emotional investment in this thread - you do realize Toilet_X is a troll account?


That being said:

Given that a large component of addiction is related to mental health, the pursuit of philosophy and psychology would likely yield stronger long term results, while also providing the framework to navigate a difficult life.

The unpopular opinion is that either your mind controls your body, or your body controls your mind. You can spin it any way you choose, but addiction results from prolonged poor decision making.

"Although the brain disease model of addiction is perceived by many as received knowledge it is not supported by research or logic. In contrast, well established, quantitative choice principles predict both the possibility and the details of addiction."
- Gene M. Heyman
Department of Psychology, Boston College, Boston, MA, USA
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2013.00031/full

Sounds like a couple posters have echo'd this same notion, but the idea is not that "what can it hurt?" to go to AA, rather, how can we better expend our time and resources to facilitate a higher success rate?

[Rocket1k78]

It takes an incredible amount of strength to recognize and admit you have a problem and to begin actively fixing it.

Best of luck to you, you'll come out a better man on the other side :thumbsup:
:werd: Takes a lot of courage to admit this and open up about it. I dont know you but i wish you the best! Look forward to hearing your success


Regardless of failure rate, its a shot im willing to take. Costs me nothin but an hour or two a session.


Addiction is a real thing and nothing can just beat it for everyone. If it were that easy, we would have no addicts. Just because some numbers fail should it mean nobody tries? I know people who had their lives saved with these programs and I know people who have succumbed to their addictions. People keep trying because they want to quit. Other people go because they are being convinced to go but they really are not ready to conquer their addictions. In the end it comes down to if the person is ready to do what it takes, but needing a hand doing so is what these programs do.

I don't understand your issue with this but coming on to a thread where someone is trying to conquer something serious and important to them and then essentially shooting their efforts down like this is pretty ignorant.
I totally see your side and agree with it fully but im sure that was not his intent, at least i hope not lol

[JRSC00LUDE]

Doesn't AA have like a 90%+ failure/relapse rate? surprised people still invest time in practices like this.

What should they invest in? I have 6 great friends who found long term success in AA. I don't personally agree with their fundamentals either but that doesn't mean it can't or won't work. At the least, it is a starting point on finding what works for you and can provide OP some like-minded contacts.

Don't worry Flushy, where there's a will there's a wAAy!

[tirebob]

:werd: While I don't think born2cars said anything too mean, "What you've yet to learn, life will find a way to teach you". So just because it hasn't happened to you (which I hope it doesn't), don't think it won't/can't. Life is crazy like that.

Sometimes it's baby steps, sometimes it's giant step but the key is to keep moving forward.

No, not crazy you're right, but I grew up with a severe alcoholic parent and I know the the smallest perceived slights can cause things to go sideways and I am a bit defensive when someone is making an effort and it is trivialized, even unintentionally. People need to stand back when these conversations are happening and think about things from another persons perspective.

[rx7boi]

Before any further emotional investment in this thread - you do realize Toilet_X is a troll account?

I know Toilet_X and while he may be a troll, it is most definitely not a troll account lol.

[tirebob]

Given that a large component of addiction is related to mental health, the pursuit of philosophy and psychology would likely yield stronger long term results, while also providing the framework to navigate a difficult life.

The unpopular opinion is that either your mind controls your body, or your body controls your mind. You can spin it any way you choose, but addiction results from prolonged poor decision making.

"Although the brain disease model of addiction is perceived by many as received knowledge it is not supported by research or logic. In contrast, well established, quantitative choice principles predict both the possibility and the details of addiction."
- Gene M. Heyman
Department of Psychology, Boston College, Boston, MA, USA
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2013.00031/full

Sounds like a couple posters have echo'd this same notion, but the idea is not that "what can it hurt?" to go to AA, rather, how can we better expend our time and resources to facilitate a higher success rate?No doubt philosophy and psychology are a huge component to addiction, but that is exactly why you just can't science your way ot of things like addiction. Just because it would help, you can't lump every addicts life experiences and and issues that drove them to make the decisions in their lives that brought them here, and you will never get them all, or even many of them, to trust doctors and the like. Many of them need the trust that only comes from other people that actually understand their experiences and not just tell them what is wrong with them.

My point being, there is room for all kinds of treatment methods, and AA/NA etc are legit and do work for many. You can't just discount that when someone is trying for a way out, whether you think you are just being trolled or not.

[max_boost]

It's a journey to figure out what will work for you and what doesn't. We all have some sort of stuff that we have either suppressed or addressing one way or another or if you are lucky and have neither, good for you.

Some ppl go home and grab a bottle, I go home and get high as a kite. Have I tried to kick it? Well yes, last fall I went cold turkey and didn't sleep for 2-3 weeks to shake it but then shortly after I relapsed and got high again. Only thing I can say is I have managed to reduce the amounts, before I was taking in about 75mg thc but now I have knocked it down to about 1/3 so progress? It's weird not dreaming and weird that I can get by with only a few hours of sleep or no sleep at all and this is coming from the guy who averaged 8-10hours nightly for the first 35 years of his life. :dunno:

[BavarianBeast]

Start with reading Buddha’s Brain.

[scboss]

This is awesome to hear man. It will help you establish what you need to have more discipline towards to achieve what you want! Best of luck bro!

[Swank]

Before any further emotional investment in this thread - you do realize Toilet_X is a troll account?

Toilet_X appears to be a troll account 80% of the time, but never poking the bear, just saying some hilarious/warped shit. 20% of the time TX has some normal stuff to say. I have faith that this post is on the 20% side and faith that TX is headed in a good direction.

[Toilet_X]

20% serious?! That number should be way lower!!!! NOW im offended. Im slackin! Not bullshittin though, if you want ill bring my phone with me and take pictures of myself in the after sesh blow job circle. ...they do that in AA right?

Dont worry guys, i know what i gotta do. He didnt upset me.

[ThePenIsMightier]

If it worked for someone who talks about choking on cocks slightly more than you, so... Sounds like a plan.
9LUm51Z-Ii0

[A790]

The unpopular opinion is that either your mind controls your body, or your body controls your mind. You can spin it any way you choose, but addiction results from prolonged poor decision making.

91741

Greetings fellow Gentlesir. You sound like someone that my friends and I would love to add to our discussion forum where we discuss sensitive subjects using reason and logic. Come join us! (https://bit.ly/3gmAT6W).

[Neil4Speed]

All the power to you sir. Question, have you ever looked in Naltrexone?

https://nationalpost.com/news/pills-can-help-people-control-risky-drinking-so-why-arent-doctors-prescribing-them

I have a friend who suffers from Alcoholism and have been trying to get him to look into it, but unfortunately, he suffers from all/any motivation to get better...

[Toilet_X]

Terlet checkin in. So far so good. Thank you all for the support. Fellate you l8r.

[tirebob]

Terlet checkin in. So far so good. Thank you all for the support. Fellate you l8r. Keep at it man!

[ExtraSlow]

Terlet checkin in. So far so good. Thank you all for the support. Fellate you l8r.

We love you and we support the work you are doing brother.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Boom!
99455
Apparently one year! Hopefully you have a stack of whatever chips they use or however that works. Toilet_X

[Toilet_X]

Still off the sauce! However no chips, i stopped going to my meetings just before christmas because i got all covid paranoid.

[ExtraSlow]

Hope it feels good brother.

[Kloubek]

Regardless of failure rate, its a shot im willing to take. Costs me nothin but an hour or two a session.

Good luck. I have a friend of mine in AA and he finds it very helpful.

[Rocket1k78]

Need some help fellas. One of my best friends has had a drinking problem for a while now and on friday we had a good heart to heart and i finally found out how bad it was, hes averaging about a bottle of vodka every 2-3 days so that could very well be every 1-2 days.
Hes a stubborn bastard and has refused any help but we cant let this go on anymore. Is AA the best start or should we look into some serious rehab? Hes got a family so is not ideal that he go to some place for weeks but its also not fair to his wife and kids that hes an alcoholic. Thanks in advance guys

[Buster]

big bottle or little bottle?

[Rocket1k78]

big bottle or little bottle?
750ml

[ExtraSlow]

Need some help fellas. One of my best friends has had a drinking problem for a while now and on friday we had a good heart to heart and i finally found out how bad it was, hes averaging about a bottle of vodka every 2-3 days so that could very well be every 1-2 days.
Hes a stubborn bastard and has refused any help but we cant let this go on anymore. Is AA the best start or should we look into some serious rehab? Hes got a family so is not ideal that he go to some place for weeks but its also not fair to his wife and kids that hes an alcoholic. Thanks in advance guys

does he want to quit? Is he talking to anyone any about thing else, like a therapist? I can't rank and rate the different options for you. Hard to force someone to change if they aren't interested.

[Rocket1k78]

does he want to quit? Is he talking to anyone any about thing else, like a therapist? I can't rank and rate the different options for you. Hard to force someone to change if they aren't interested.
He definitely wants to quit but hes under the impression he can do it himself. He hasnt talked to a therapist at all but hes willing.

[ExtraSlow]

some people can do it themselves. if he thinks he can do it himself, has he tried? If he's tried and it hasn't worked, he may need more help. He should be talking to someone.

[Buster]

its also dangerous to quit alcohol cold turkey.

[Kobe]

its also dangerous to quit alcohol cold turkey.

Yah heard possible death just like xanax.. the only two? where u shouldn't coldturkey it.

[Rocket1k78]

some people can do it themselves. if he thinks he can do it himself, has he tried? If he's tried and it hasn't worked, he may need more help. He should be talking to someone.
He needs outside help for sure, hes tried and managed to get it under a bit of control at one point to where he only had so many drinks a day but hes back to just drinking whatever. He needs help 100% just not sure where to start. My one friend is looking into AA and possibly a full on rebhab place.


its also dangerous to quit alcohol cold turkey.
Thought you were messing around but i googled it and sure enough. Had no idea but after reading it it makes sense, hes to the point where he has to wake up in the middle of the night for a drink or else he starts to shake real bad so hes totally likely to have some serious withdrawals

[ThePenIsMightier]

He needs outside help for sure, hes tried and managed to get it under a bit of control at one point to where he only had so many drinks a day but hes back to just drinking whatever. He needs help 100% just not sure where to start. My one friend is looking into AA and possibly a full on rebhab place.


Thought you were messing around but i googled it and sure enough. Had no idea but after reading it it makes sense, hes to the point where he has to wake up in the middle of the night for a drink or else he starts to shake real bad so hes totally likely to have some serious withdrawals

Something isn't adding up. He's only having about 6 drinks per day if a bottle lasts 3 days. Those people are nowhere near waking up at night with the shakes.

[Rocket1k78]

Something isn't adding up. He's only having about 6 drinks per day if a bottle lasts 3 days. Those people are nowhere near waking up at night with the shakes.

I dont drink so i dont know how many drinks in a bottle but yeah hes definitely not doing 1 bottle every 3 days if its 6 shots a day. Like i said, he said 2-3 days per but it realistically is more like 1-2 days per bottle

[ExtraSlow]

Something isn't adding up. He's only having about 6 drinks per day if a bottle lasts 3 days. Those people are nowhere near waking up at night with the shakes.
he's drinking much more than he admits. That's my guess.

[ExtraSlow]

On a sort of related note, my personal line for "when drinking is a problem" is if you feel you need a drink before work in the morning, or you would find it difficult to take 24 hours off. I was close enough to that line once that I found it frightening and I was able to walk back from it.

[killramos]

See I’ve always thought the line for me was closer to “if you can’t enjoy something without a drink” you are getting real close to having a problem.

[Buster]

Y'all are a bunch of lushes

[ThePenIsMightier]

I dont drink so i dont know how many drinks in a bottle but yeah hes definitely not doing 1 bottle every 3 days if its 6 shots a day. Like i said, he said 2-3 days per but it realistically is more like 1-2 days per bottle

There are almost seventeen 1.5oz "standard drinks" in a bottle. "A shot" is typically only 1oz and falls short of a standard drink.
I believe that people who have the shakes are drinking at least a bottle per day.

[roopi]

Thought you were messing around but i googled it and sure enough. Had no idea but after reading it it makes sense, hes to the point where he has to wake up in the middle of the night for a drink or else he starts to shake real bad so hes totally likely to have some serious withdrawals

This is the only valid reason liquor stores were considered essential.

[tonytiger55]

Need some help fellas. One of my best friends has had a drinking problem for a while now and on friday we had a good heart to heart and i finally found out how bad it was, hes averaging about a bottle of vodka every 2-3 days so that could very well be every 1-2 days.
Hes a stubborn bastard and has refused any help but we cant let this go on anymore. Is AA the best start or should we look into some serious rehab? Hes got a family so is not ideal that he go to some place for weeks but its also not fair to his wife and kids that hes an alcoholic. Thanks in advance guys

If he wants to get better than that is the first step.
I would not recommend him stopping drinking right away. That can be bad if not fatal. Its best he speak to a professional to assess how bad his addiction is. The alcoholics lie to themselves on how they are drinking. I used to run a bar and a liquor store. Its a eye opener. AA or rehab are not bad ideas. But I would start with a professional first to figure out how much is a lot.
But it is a journey in itself to find out WHY he is drinking, that is one of the steps in stopping. It can be a number of reasons. Past trauma, the way his wife speaks to him or treats him, does he have a purpose, financial reasons...? It could be a combination.

But if he is stubborn then there is another way. I personally think having good male support/company with good habits is absolutely vital in that journey of recovery. I can't stress this enough. A safe place where he can release with no judgement mentally. It could be something like having him over for wings once a week. Playing pool or helping you on a hobby.
My late father father was a alcoholic. He cleaned up in the last decade. But I remember as a early preteen is helping carrying my dad out of the car as he had drank so much and could not walk or stopping massive fights at home ..the list is fucking endless. If I could pick one thing that would have made the biggest difference to my dads alcohol habit, I wish there was in those times was other good adult males. Men that my dad could turn to for indirect support though good habits or hobbies. Not only that but other women to talk to my mum to correct some of her behaviour. There was none. Its a community issue.
I cannot stress the importance of having other men there to help. One of my ex girlfriends tuned out to be a major alcoholic too. I cannot stress the importance of having good people of the same sex around with good habits to support that person.

[davidI]

He needs outside help for sure, hes tried and managed to get it under a bit of control at one point to where he only had so many drinks a day but hes back to just drinking whatever. He needs help 100% just not sure where to start.

If he's not willing to talk to anyone about it yet then perhaps you could try getting him Allen Carr's "Quit Drinking Without Willpower" book.

I've had friends quit smoking from his books and it's the book that helped Nikki Glaser quit drinking as well - even if it doesn't work out it's worth the $10 to try.

[Rocket1k78]

If he wants to get better than that is the first step.
I would not recommend him stopping drinking right away. That can be bad if not fatal. Its best he speak to a professional to assess how bad his addiction is. The alcoholics lie to themselves on how they are drinking. I used to run a bar and a liquor store. Its a eye opener. AA or rehab are not bad ideas. But I would start with a professional first to figure out how much is a lot.
But it is a journey in itself to find out WHY he is drinking, that is one of the steps in stopping. It can be a number of reasons. Past trauma, the way his wife speaks to him or treats him, does he have a purpose, financial reasons...? It could be a combination.

But if he is stubborn then there is another way. I personally think having good male support/company with good habits is absolutely vital in that journey of recovery. I can't stress this enough. A safe place where he can release with no judgement mentally. It could be something like having him over for wings once a week. Playing pool or helping you on a hobby.
My late father father was a alcoholic. He cleaned up in the last decade. But I remember as a early preteen is helping carrying my dad out of the car as he had drank so much and could not walk or stopping massive fights at home ..the list is fucking endless. If I could pick one thing that would have made the biggest difference to my dads alcohol habit, I wish there was in those times was other good adult males. Men that my dad could turn to for indirect support though good habits or hobbies. Not only that but other women to talk to my mum to correct some of her behaviour. There was none. Its a community issue.
I cannot stress the importance of having other men there to help. One of my ex girlfriends tuned out to be a major alcoholic too. I cannot stress the importance of having good people of the same sex around with good habits to support that person.

Hes always been a drinker but this stems from some family issues so you have some very valid points. I like the idea about getting together with him once a week too, theres 3 of us that are all on board with some type of serious help and theyre all good people so thats a good start.

Really appreciate all the help so far guys, its sad to see a good friend go down this route