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msommers
08-20-2020, 02:05 PM
The bad news: I think I've come to terms that my geological career coming is to an end if I continue to live in Calgary or North America for that matter.

The good news: I know I have transferable skills that entail much more than 'looking at rocks all day'. A friend of mine suggested gas trading, explained a bit about it and thought there would be more opportunities available now and going forward. Is anyone here a trader that could comment? What qualifications/courses would you suggest as I don't have a formal business or marketing background.

I've considered an MBA and frankly, it is way too expensive to cover personally, particularly because it doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've considered doing a CFA Level I but I'm not sure what doors specifically this could open me up to other than Equity Research which I have zero desire to do based on everyone I know that has done it or is doing it.

Lots of you guys genuinely know what Geos do, what their role is, and what skills they have. I'm really open to any suggestions of where to zoom into in terms of new career paths. I kind of had a mental breakdown the other day about just being a bag-boy the rest of my life but things are on the upswing again :)

killramos
08-20-2020, 02:09 PM
I don’t see how geology really lends itself to a commodity trading role, aside from knowing where the gas comes from.

This would be a full career restart, and if you think there is no future in oil and gas I don’t see how diving into O&G commodity trading is really any different regarding job pool saturation (way wider talent pool to draw from to recruit new traders too, you are competing with every haskayne bcomm willing to grind at the job for pennies which really drives comp to the bottom of the barrel).

Ever considered pivoting to hard rock instead? Had a buddy who planned on O&G geology pivot quickly into that when he graduated into a market of 0 jobs and has made a decent career of it working steadily for the past 4 years. He does 3 weeks on 2 weeks off logging core and really likes the lifestyle.

ExtraSlow
08-20-2020, 02:28 PM
Coal mining Geo?

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 02:31 PM
G.I.T.? Your friend suggesting that you go into trading...has he/she been in trading before?

Buster
08-20-2020, 02:33 PM
How old are you?

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 02:34 PM
How old are you?

I didn't want to go there.

Wait. Is Buster a traderz? :love: Be my sugar daddy? :love:

vengie
08-20-2020, 02:36 PM
Any interest in blogging about Mustangs?

riander5
08-20-2020, 02:46 PM
Any interest in blogging about Mustangs?

He might as well just stay in EI! Lol

Starting out at the bottom of commodity trading can be a grind. Be prepared to be up at 430-5 am for the rest of your life for starters.

Pacman
08-20-2020, 02:55 PM
wouldn't the CFA open up other doors as well with your technical background? My wife is a p.eng with her cfa and was doing corporate development/m&a for one of the big producers.

sabad66
08-20-2020, 02:58 PM
Any interest in software development? My geophysicist buddy has been slowly transitioning into that and it seems to be going well as a lot of skills are pretty transferable.

Software development and associated areas are pretty future proof and i would say a lot easier to get into and excel in compared to commodity trading.

Buster
08-20-2020, 02:59 PM
I didn't want to go there.

Wait. Is Buster a traderz? :love: Be my sugar daddy? :love:

nope. I know lots of traders though.

Not the life I would prefer, but it can certainly be lucrative in the right circumstances.

It's just a tough "reset" job cuz it's so grindy. Unless you bring some kind of really important industry side knowledge to the equation. I've known some people who have gotten into trading in their 30s, but they had pretty good connections already and were willing to start at the bottom.

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:03 PM
nope. I know lots of traders though.

Not the life I would prefer, but it can certainly be lucrative in the right circumstances.

It's just a tough "reset" job cuz it's so grindy. Unless you bring some kind of really important industry side knowledge to the equation. I've known some people who have gotten into trading in their 30s, but they had pretty good connections already and were willing to start at the bottom.

What kind of trading?
Pacman's wife can be my sugar momma. E.I.T, P.Eng, CFA is so much win that I wouldn't even care if she has a beard. :love:

killramos
08-20-2020, 03:04 PM
IMO it would be a pretty rough path that’s for sure.

Another question is are you even moderately interested in trading? Or just looking for a job?

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:05 PM
Easier to be a broker imo. :rofl::poosie:

Pacman
08-20-2020, 03:06 PM
What kind of trading?
Pacman's wife can be my sugar momma. E.I.T, P.Eng, CFA is so much win that I wouldn't even care if she has a beard. :love:

nah, you don't get paid IB money when you are working for a producer, even if she's working IB hours to close a deal.

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:06 PM
nah, you don't get paid IB money when you are working for a producer, even if she's working IB hours to close a deal.

She ain't working IB hours unless she hasn't gone home or showered in a week.:)

killramos
08-20-2020, 03:08 PM
I also personally wouldn’t bother with CFA level 1 unless you are going to finish the designation. CFA level 1 means literally nothing, the full CFA is what opens doors.

Pacman
08-20-2020, 03:12 PM
She ain't working IB hours unless she hasn't gone home or showered in a week.:)

wonder if they still wear the same white shirts and blue suits for a week straight or do they keep an extra white shirt and matching blue suit in the office?

Buster
08-20-2020, 03:13 PM
What kind of trading?


Russian prostitutes mostly.

killramos
08-20-2020, 03:14 PM
wonder if they still wear the same white shirts and blue suits for a week straight or do they keep an extra white shirt and matching blue suit in the office?

Their dry cleaning just never comes home. Actually, home is an entirely optional concept.

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:15 PM
wonder if they still wear the same white shirts and blue suits for a week straight or do they keep an extra white shirt and matching blue suit in the office?

Most analysts can't afford multiple suits. Who do you think they are? Dentists? :)
Good to go so long as the pit stains don't show.

So...elephant in the room. You guys adopting? I mow lawns and make excellent fried rice.

msommers
08-20-2020, 03:19 PM
Has anyone taken a career counselling test, something like The Highlands Ability Battery? Any companies in town for career advising/counselling people could recommend?


I don’t see how geology really lends itself to a commodity trading role, aside from knowing where the gas comes from.

This would be a full career restart, and if you think there is no future in oil and gas I don’t see how diving into O&G commodity trading is really any different regarding job pool saturation (way wider talent pool to draw from to recruit new traders too, you are competing with every haskayne bcomm willing to grind at the job for pennies which really drives comp to the bottom of the barrel).

Ever considered pivoting to hard rock instead? Had a buddy who planned on O&G geology pivot quickly into that when he graduated into a market of 0 jobs and has made a decent career of it working steadily for the past 4 years. He does 3 weeks on 2 weeks off logging core and really likes the lifestyle.

I don't think "there is no future in oil and gas", however as a Geologist in O&G over the last 10 years, I'm exhausted from working contract to contract for 4-8 months either for the same company or different ones with no stability at all and empty promises. I've been part of two major reorgs at large companies about to give me a letter of offer. My luck in this industry has been horrendous. Moreover, the ratio of the applicants to positions is eye-watering -- I recently applied to one that was just over 500:1 - not hyperbole because that is what the hiring manager told me.

Hard rock is about the same from folks I know out East. I'm competing with more schools for more or less the same ratio of jobs. I would still apply but with the same hope of how things are local.


Coal mining Geo?

I applied to multiple Teck positions however I'm convinced they hate Albertans. After many applications with internal referrals and no interviews I'm not sure what to make of it, and I'm doubtful it's my resume because so many eyes have been on it. Hopefully there are other opportunities from other companies I am unaware, and would happily apply to/meet with people.


G.I.T.? Your friend suggesting that you go into trading...has he/she been in trading before?

I should be getting my P.Geo in Sept considering I've been in a queue for review well over 8 months now. Yes he was a scheduler and is now a trader, with a friend or two who were in Geology and are now in trading. Meeting pending with those folks.


How old are you?

Mid-thirties.


Any interest in blogging about Mustangs?

No.


He might as well just stay in EI! Lol

Starting out at the bottom of commodity trading can be a grind. Be prepared to be up at 430-5 am for the rest of your life for starters.

It's less about start time, but more so the 430am - 1130pm I've heard of Equity Research. I could do that for a short while (~1 year) but clearly not something that anyone wants to do long-term.


-Thanks all.

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:29 PM
Good. One more month to roll out the GIT jokes.
Just do what Buster does if you want tendies without the work hours.
COD > CFA

Buster
08-20-2020, 03:32 PM
Good. One more month to roll out the GIT jokes.
Just do what Buster does if you want tendies without the work hours.
COD > CFA

uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:43 PM
uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

Posting isn't working. :)

85lpWoESHUM

Buster
08-20-2020, 03:46 PM
Posting isn't working. :)

85lpWoESHUM

You think I do this shit for rage2 for free?

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 03:47 PM
You think I do this shit for rage2 for free?

He pays at least $30/hr with a full health plan.

- - - Updated - - -
msommers Why do you want to be a trader?

Disoblige
08-20-2020, 04:05 PM
If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

killramos
08-20-2020, 04:25 PM
uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

I just assumed that was a symptom of children...

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 04:35 PM
If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

But he's old.

90_Shelby
08-20-2020, 04:40 PM
My wife is a p.eng with her cfa and was doing corporate development/m&a for one of the big producers.

She's also my wife's boss.

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 04:47 PM
She's also my wife's boss.

The soup thickens.

Pacman
08-20-2020, 06:00 PM
What's wrong with being an analyst? aren't those well compensated jobs and less hours than the bankers down the hall?

killramos
08-20-2020, 06:02 PM
Depends on what you mean by analyst

msommers
08-20-2020, 08:09 PM
- - - Updated - - -
msommers Why do you want to be a trader?

It wasn't on my radar until the conversation I had the other night. In his opinion the transition wouldn't mean going back to school for another degree/diploma except maybe 3-4 courses. The pay is good, I'm using my brain a lot, socializing but most importantly it sounded like a job that had potential to be around for the next 30 years and willing to accept juniors.


If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

In the above mentioned conversation, he had said he worked as a scheduler and then into trading. I would be more than happy to do scheduling. An additional question to this would be: what courses or qualifications would be most helpful to highlight my abilities to do the job?


What's wrong with being an analyst? aren't those well compensated jobs and less hours than the bankers down the hall?

If this was a question for me, the answer is nothing is wrong with an Analyst. I will say though, Analyst seems like the most generic term I have come across in all my job searching that it has lost any specific meaning to me. The only specific attribute in common is "proficient in Excel" which I can do just fine :rofl:

The_Rural_Juror
08-20-2020, 08:53 PM
As someone who has a few traders in my 3+ connection level on LinkedIn. I can tell you that courses won't help. You are either a douchebag or you aren't. I also learned everything I know about trading from the short term investments thread, so I consider myself to be a semi-pro. Straddles and shit.

buh_buh
08-20-2020, 08:54 PM
Typical career path is Analyst -> Scheduling -> Trading. That way you understand risk, market analytics, how P&L is generated, the actual movement of crude/gasoline before you even get a sniff of trading. Companies are unlikely to hire even a jr trader with no experience so you can put their millions on the line daily so you can learn on the job.

bcylau
08-20-2020, 09:57 PM
probably second the analyst/ scheduling route. Some shops have new hires start as schedulers, well assistants/ analysts to the schedulers, which is pretty close to physical trading as they will have a book. long term/ forecasting analysts usually rank higher than the schedulers. your best in "trading" is probably the jr analyst role, then move up from there.

there are a few real-time trader jobs right now, but those are power/ electricity jobs. and those jobs tend to be the most jr job in electricity trading. I started as a real time trader when I was an intern.

The BMW Guy
08-21-2020, 12:12 PM
It wasn't on my radar until the conversation I had the other night. In his opinion the transition wouldn't mean going back to school for another degree/diploma except maybe 3-4 courses. The pay is good, I'm using my brain a lot, socializing but most importantly it sounded like a job that had potential to be around for the next 30 years and willing to accept juniors.


I work closely with the trading team at my firm and they most definitely are not willing to accept juniors. Almost no shop in town will take on a new person that has no knowledge of the market (analyst) or how the product moves (schedulers). I'll second what others have said in that you'll have to go analyst/scheduler route, learn the ropes and then hope to god one of the traders leave so you can try to throw your name in for the seat.

In general, it is easier to get in as an analyst from your background. Learn some data analysis skills (even just knowing VBA is a big bonus). I'd recommend CFA as well, even though it doesn't help in commodity trading much, people still like the title when reviewing candidates. About 80% of the analyst where I'm at are engineers/comp sci (CFA or partial CFA), rest are finance majors. For schedulers I see mainly finance people as it is a very relationship based role. For transition, I see mainly schedulers go into physical trading roles as they are usually the best fit once a trader leaves the shop. However I find the analyst role more beneficial in learning the important factors that affect price/trading and the top analyst at our shop usually get a trading seat if they come up with good trade ideas. 70% of the traders are finance background with the rest being engineers.

The_Rural_Juror
08-21-2020, 12:23 PM
The BMW Guy has good points.

msommers
08-21-2020, 03:08 PM
buh_buh bcylau The BMW Guy

Solid info, cheers guys :thumbsup:

max_boost
08-21-2020, 03:35 PM
You seem like a really smart guy Sommers so good luck. You got this. :thumbsup: My bro was in a similar situation but went and did some CFA stuff and got his Masters and is now doing some project management in some tech related field.

buh_buh
08-21-2020, 03:47 PM
If trading is what you want to get into ultimately, see if you can get into an analyst or scheduling role, although most companies won't hire schedulers without experience unless it's an internal hire. At least you start to build your market knowledge and can work towards trading. Scheduling roles will always exist as long as trading roles exist.

The_Rural_Juror
08-21-2020, 09:53 PM
You seem like a really smart guy Sommers so good luck. You got this. :thumbsup: My bro was in a similar situation but went and did some CFA stuff and got his Masters and is now doing some project management in some tech related field.

Whatever max boost said minus the brother part.

I can empathize with your situation as I took rocks for jocks once and can confirm that crystallography has no transferrable skills to other industries.

Do whatever you have passion for. A friend of mine told me that schedulers have the best orgies. Keep that in mind if you are on the fence between analyst or scheduling.

You can do it!

kJUMP
08-22-2020, 09:02 AM
The bad news: I think I've come to terms that my geological career coming is to an end if I continue to live in Calgary or North America for that matter.

The good news: I know I have transferable skills that entail much more than 'looking at rocks all day'. A friend of mine suggested gas trading, explained a bit about it and thought there would be more opportunities available now and going forward. Is anyone here a trader that could comment? What qualifications/courses would you suggest as I don't have a formal business or marketing background.

I've considered an MBA and frankly, it is way too expensive to cover personally, particularly because it doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've considered doing a CFA Level I but I'm not sure what doors specifically this could open me up to other than Equity Research which I have zero desire to do based on everyone I know that has done it or is doing it.

Lots of you guys genuinely know what Geos do, what their role is, and what skills they have. I'm really open to any suggestions of where to zoom into in terms of new career paths. I kind of had a mental breakdown the other day about just being a bag-boy the rest of my life but things are on the upswing again :)

Why wouldn't you go for an MBA? Yes, it's expensive with no clear end destination but it might be exactly what you are looking for. Just pick the best MBA school out east and go for it. Being on that journey will be a great experience and doors will open, I firmly believe that. Loans are easy to come by, borrowing is cheap, you are investing in yourself.

I don't know much about the O&G industry, apart from what I read in the Calgary Sun and posts from ExtraSlow, but it seems like hard grinding for the next while with limited opportunities for those on the outside.

cjblair
08-22-2020, 09:22 AM
Interesting take. I work with lots of MBA holders, and have looked hard at doing one. The one consistent piece of advice I’ve received is exactly the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Don’t do an MBA unless you have a clear outcome you want to achieve. If you know what you want to get out of it, you can target a school that delivers the best program for your focus area, and ensure you get the most out of your program. Conversely if you just pick a school and go for it, that is not an efficient use of time or capital.

Ymmv I guess. Haha

kJUMP
08-22-2020, 09:39 AM
I'm not an MBA so can't relate, but will elaborate on my post by saying that clearly he has certain aptitudes and interests so that should help focus on a set of programs and potential career paths, rather than taking the "unpainted canvas" route haha.

Mid-thirties is not old. Pursuing higher education in a new environment and surrounding yourself with motivated and opportunistic learners is rarely a wrong move.

The_Rural_Juror
08-22-2020, 10:10 AM
Investing in yourself is the big takeaway. For example I took a production accounting certificate. Even though I never used it, it helped me understand fractions and how to bitch about deadlines - which are fully transferable skill sets in any industry.
As for the MBA, it is better if you can con your employer to pay for it.

oster
08-22-2020, 11:14 AM
CFA is more valuable if finance/trading is the route you want to go, just ensure you actually follow through with the designation as completing lvl's 1 and 2 dont really mean shit.

Also, like other have said the career path is typically analyst -> scheduler -> trader. However, as a scheduler you can make a pretty decent living with less stress/work hours which = better work/life balance.

Traders are usually a particular type of person as well btw

killramos
08-22-2020, 11:30 AM
Mid thirties isn’t old? Here I thought mid 20’s was old these days.

msommers
08-22-2020, 12:21 PM
If trading is what you want to get into ultimately, see if you can get into an analyst or scheduling role, although most companies won't hire schedulers without experience unless it's an internal hire. At least you start to build your market knowledge and can work towards trading. Scheduling roles will always exist as long as trading roles exist.

I'm hearing what you're saying. I tend to look at "what is the end goal" and just do whatever is needed to get there. Life happens and sometimes that doesn't work out. That said, if Analyst is where I need to start then that will be my focus. Are there any particular courses, skills or programs I could learn to be able to point to on a resume/coffee?


Why wouldn't you go for an MBA? Yes, it's expensive with no clear end destination but it might be exactly what you are looking for. Just pick the best MBA school out east and go for it. Being on that journey will be a great experience and doors will open, I firmly believe that. Loans are easy to come by, borrowing is cheap, you are investing in yourself.

I don't know much about the O&G industry, apart from what I read in the Calgary Sun and posts from ExtraSlow, but it seems like hard grinding for the next while with limited opportunities for those on the outside.

To your first point, the expense is a major consideration as is the time to do it. From the <10 people I know with an MBA, the common thread is they didn't learn anything specifically helpful, it didn't open any meaningful doors for them, but the network they got was invaluable. The same group either had Dad pay for it or the company.

A few months ago, I met with someone pretty high up at CIBC to talk corporate lending and equity trading, and her comments surrounding an MBA were mixed - no it's not required but when 9/10 people have it and you don't, you're screwed. Then again she didn't have one and is doing very well so it's hardly necessary to do well. Personally, obtaining an MBA and its benefits haven't been as clear-cut as I would have hoped for.

Lastly, when I stopped working at a well-paying but the sporadic and entirely field-based job to purse my MSc., it was a gamble but I knew what I could do with it: have perfect grades for companies like Exxon, be a lot more marketable locally and end up in the office, end up in management positions down the road, or open doors to work internationally as an MSc. is essentially required (Europeans all have an MSc. because it's essentially the same as doing a BSc. here with a capstone/small-thesis component). Locally things are the worst they've ever been and worldwide, anyone with <15-20 yrs of O&G experience as a Geo has been hammered and are needing to transition to something else.


Investing in yourself is the big takeaway.

I will agree with the caveat that more education doesn't guarantee anything, or in my case, am worse off. I have an irrational fear of being an over-educated, debt-ridden individual who ends up working at a gas station. Point being, yes I want to invest in myself and am not opposed to spending the time and money necessary to do so, but need to have clear-cut, justified reasons to pursue more education. I am not in a financial position to learn new skills out of hoping for something better (ie: naive, livin' on a prayer) -- it needs to be actionable.

I appreciate everyone's comments, both publically and privately.

oster
08-22-2020, 04:20 PM
Sounds like your current experience could land you an analyst role easy, albeit if there are any positions out there. It's essentially and entry level positon...

Marsh
08-23-2020, 12:32 PM
Used to work in a energy marketing shop so thought I'd share some knowledge.

No shop is going to hire you as a trader, unless you have previous P/L responsibility and ran a book (or your dad is VP of the trading group). Almost every shop wants to develop and build people their way and get them to learn the ropes, the culture, and the fit in the team. All the energy marketing guys are a super tight knit group, so its more about fit than any skills/courses you bring to the table. They would prefer you know nothing and teach you and build you from the ground up. The typical way they would bring someone on is as an analyst (risk analysis, reporting, trade reports etc.) and see how you handle that. If you do well, then they will want you to start cross training, and learning a bit about trading, scheduling etc.

If you do well, scheduling will be the next place for you. I know people who have grinded in this role for years, and still haven't broke out to the trade desk. Scheduling is what it sounds like. You are responsible for the physical scheduling of the product (nat gas, crude) to get it from point A to point B. This is a super tough role to be in with a lot of responsibility. you are expected to be on call 24/7, deal with shipping issues at 2am, etc. If you do well though, then you've set yourself up to be a trader. Like your buddy said, its a great job and most people don't leave this type of work as it pays well.

As an industry, things have changed alot over the last 10-15 years. The last few years have been much more difficult to make money (as a whole from a business unit perspective). Gone are the days of more financial, speculative trading, and nowadays are more just pure physical trading (point A to point B). You can see this by the number of shops that have reduced headcount, or pretty much all but packed up and left.

That being said, you can have a great career in energy trading if your in it for the long haul! if your just looking for a "job", it probably isn't for you.

Let me know if you have more questions

The_Rural_Juror
08-24-2020, 07:51 PM
Let me know if you have more questions

How does one obtain a large, yet finite, amount of tendies?

max_boost
08-24-2020, 09:01 PM
I'm not an MBA so can't relate, but will elaborate on my post by saying that clearly he has certain aptitudes and interests so that should help focus on a set of programs and potential career paths, rather than taking the "unpainted canvas" route haha.

Mid-thirties is not old. Pursuing higher education in a new environment and surrounding yourself with motivated and opportunistic learners is rarely a wrong move.

The grind the GrInd the grind. Late 30s here and burnt the fk out lol Ready to retire and live like a peasant than trying to keep up with the BBC (Beyond Ballers Club).

Buster
08-24-2020, 09:21 PM
The grind the GrInd the grind. Late 30s here and burnt the fk out lol Ready to retire and live like a peasant than trying to keep up with the BBC (Beyond Ballers Club).

I've been burned out for 5 years or so.

The_Rural_Juror
08-24-2020, 09:53 PM
7.2 is going to take a while. You guys burn yourselves out. Me? I am happy with 0.420.

R-Audi
08-25-2020, 11:46 AM
As been said a few times, the standard route is entry level analyst, then scheduling and hopefully graduate to trading. With your experience you may be able to skip the analyst and go to scheduling, that would depend on you and the company.
I did the analyst/other oil & gas then scheduling route and was just starting to be given a small amount of Aeco gas to trade when I decided on a career change. Decent money, being on call gets annoying, but your average work hours is appealing. Generally early in and early out if everything is done right, there isnt a lot to do after ~3pm.

Mitsu3000gt
08-25-2020, 12:09 PM
I've been a trader for most of my career as part of my job and everyone here has pretty much covered everything. Nobody is going to put you in charge of millions or tens of millions of dollars of product without going through lots of training and probably starting you out as an analyst. The only thing I don't like is literally being on call every single day (Christmas included) to balance pipeline positions, but you get used to it and you don't always need to do something. I have a business background and trading is just like 95% of jobs out there - anyone can do it if they are competent and trained properly. Certain companies might want you to have a particular education or background but experience matters more.

Pretty much anyone can be an Analyst if you know how to make a spreadsheet haha. That's probably what you will have to do to get your foot in the door.

The_Rural_Juror
08-25-2020, 12:13 PM
I've been a trader for most of my career as part of my job

I KNEW IT! I always knew you were a big swinging dick.

Mitsu3000gt
08-25-2020, 12:34 PM
I KNEW IT! I always knew you were a big swinging dick.

Lol, I will take that as a compliment, thank you.

vengie
08-25-2020, 12:53 PM
I've been burned out for 5 years or so.

Yup, and itís getting worse as we keep getting ground further into the ground.

tonytiger55
08-25-2020, 02:36 PM
The bad news: I think I've come to terms that my geological career coming is to an end if I continue to live in Calgary or North America for that matter.

The good news: I know I have transferable skills that entail much more than 'looking at rocks all day'. A friend of mine suggested gas trading, explained a bit about it and thought there would be more opportunities available now and going forward. Is anyone here a trader that could comment? What qualifications/courses would you suggest as I don't have a formal business or marketing background.

I've considered an MBA and frankly, it is way too expensive to cover personally, particularly because it doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've considered doing a CFA Level I but I'm not sure what doors specifically this could open me up to other than Equity Research which I have zero desire to do based on everyone I know that has done it or is doing it.

Lots of you guys genuinely know what Geos do, what their role is, and what skills they have. I'm really open to any suggestions of where to zoom into in terms of new career paths. I kind of had a mental breakdown the other day about just being a bag-boy the rest of my life but things are on the upswing again :)

Just focusing on the last part.
I've had to re-train a few times over the last 15 years. Right now im in the insurance industry. I picked it solely on the basis of job stability. I was at a stage where Im sick and tired of doing entry level jobs on the promise of career advancing only to be hit with a glass ceiling. The job I do..like with anything is not guaranteed. But with Covid, it helped a lot. Its been very stable.

Its a great idea to change, re-train and to adapt to what life throws at you. One has to.
Whatever you decide to do bear in mind it gets harder as you get older to re-train and start over. A lot of things in all industries are moving to be more data driven. There is a massive lack of personality and good applied critical thinking in these roles. That is they key thing I have seen.
I work in a office where someone was a geologist too. Now she does boring data stuff. Its not the best job, but it gives the stability of home life and family...she loves it.
I work a boring 9-5. But I love it. Prior to this I worked so many jobs that were not 9-5, constant pressure on nothing, or had brutal commutes. I tell you, I have missed out so many key moments with family and friends. One does not appreciate it until you don't have it.

You do have a lot of skills from geology that are transferable and in my opinion absolute key. I know and interviewed people that are book smart. But they cannot apply skills such as critical thinking, speaking diplomatically in raising key issues or coordinating with people with colorful personalities to get a project done.

Do the career counselling, talk to people, job shadow if you can (just ask, people are only going to say no). I will go against the grain and say my advice is don't just focus on the job or career. Look at the industry, ask is it stable and boring enough to allow you to move sideways, focus on family, hobbies and friends outside of work? Are you a specialist or a generalist in that field? If you can find a role that does both then its great.

max_boost
08-25-2020, 04:24 PM
7.2 is going to take a while. You guys burn yourselves out. Me? I am happy with 0.420.

I have the .2, just need to find someone with 14 so I can take half lol :rofl:

Marsh
08-25-2020, 05:02 PM
How does one obtain a large, yet finite, amount of tendies?

Yolo $TSLA Calls, 4 weeks out.

Your welcome

The_Rural_Juror
08-25-2020, 05:04 PM
Yolo $TSLA Calls, 4 weeks out.

Your welcome

4 weeks out? That's long term shit. I can only afford way otm weeklies.

bcylau
08-25-2020, 10:13 PM
with oil trading the end goal is usually the big shops. trafigura, glencore, vitol, mercuria, cargill, etc. these are the firms where traders made 7 to 9 figures. the calgary o&g trading departments dont pay nearly as much. but as with everything in trading, if you are good then you will find a job. and dont look down on scheduling, they control the flow of the company's product everyday, easily tens of millions. i remember my schedulers finding arbs in pipe vs rail then getting the traders to hedge out the basis. its a lot of work that has to be right the first time.

also, the best part of trading in calgary has to be the perks and stampede parties. Basically you can go to any flames game you want ( if you have time) and stampede is 14 days of drinking and rodeo. And depending on your firm, we have done trips to some islands.

a tangential career path would be financial/ commodity risk. slightly less pay, slightly less stress, way more math which is better for an engineer background.

one more thing, aim for smaller / mid sized mid-stream companies for your job search. they have less demand than the big shops and you get to learn more about the physical side of the business. ie interpipe, plains, superior gas liquids. I know these places have trading shops.

The_Rural_Juror
08-25-2020, 11:01 PM
I once filled in for the cleaners at SGL. The women were hawt.
Say no to Plains. They clog the toilets like tp is free. Jerks.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 08:56 AM
with oil trading the end goal is usually the big shops. trafigura, glencore, vitol, mercuria, cargill, etc. these are the firms where traders made 7 to 9 figures.
bcylau Dude! Which physical traders in Calgary make 9 figures??? max_boost and I are only looking for 7MM.

Mitsu3000gt
08-26-2020, 09:00 AM
bcylau Dude! Which physical traders in Calgary make 9 figures??? max_boost and I are only looking for 7MM.

I can't speak for everyone but none of the ones I know make 7 let alone 9, and I know people at most of the shops he listed. Maybe he's talking about the USA when oil was $120?

killramos
08-26-2020, 09:05 AM
What kind of tendies do you get to eat when you make 9 figures?

Asking for SKR

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 09:15 AM
I can't speak for everyone but none of the ones I know make 7 let alone 9, and I know people at most of the shops he listed. Maybe he's talking about the USA when oil was $120?

You don't make 7? What kind of a trader are you? You're getting max_boost and my hopes up.

- - - Updated - - -


What kind of tendies do you get to eat when you make 9 figures?

Asking for SKR

That's when you move up to the deluxe menu.

killramos
08-26-2020, 09:19 AM
You don't make 7? What kind of a trader are you? You're getting max_boost and my hopes up.

- - - Updated - - -



That's when you move up to the deluxe menu.

So... you get the big box of Tendies AND dip?

93774

sabad66
08-26-2020, 09:21 AM
TIL there are traders in Calgary that make 9 figures per year.

Unless i misunderstood and that is the profit for the company which isn't necessarily the salary of the trader?

Mitsu3000gt
08-26-2020, 09:26 AM
TIL there are traders in Calgary that make 9 figures per year.

Unless i misunderstood and that is the profit for the company which isn't necessarily the salary of the trader?

No traders in Calgary are making hundreds of millions of dollars. There are only a handful of CEOs in the world making 9 figures like Elon Musk and Tim Cook to put that in perspective.

killramos
08-26-2020, 09:30 AM
That must really put a dent in Calgary tendy sales. No wonder we are in a recession.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 09:40 AM
Probably not a lot of these kinds of compensation arrangements around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Hunter_(trader)

- - - Updated - - -


No traders in Calgary are making hundreds of millions of dollars. There are only a handful of CEOs in the world making 9 figures like Elon Musk and Tim Cook to put that in perspective.

Are you calling bcylau out?

93776

93777

Buster
08-26-2020, 10:08 AM
No traders in Calgary are making hundreds of millions of dollars. There are only a handful of CEOs in the world making 9 figures like Elon Musk and Tim Cook to put that in perspective.

93778

Mitsu3000gt
08-26-2020, 10:13 AM
93778

Pfft, that's a mere 7 figures.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 10:15 AM
Pfft, that's a mere 7 figures.

That's 8 figures, sir. :)
Tim Apple made 9 figures last year! Elon Musk "made" 11 if he ever takes money out of his companies.

Mitsu3000gt
08-26-2020, 10:19 AM
That's 8 figures, sir. :)
Tim Apple made 9 figures last year! Elon Musk "made" 11 if he ever takes money out of his companies.

Oops, you're right haha. I should have a coffee before I try and make jokes :cry:

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 10:22 AM
Oops, you're right haha. I should have a coffee before I try and make jokes :cry:

Is this how you trade? :)

93779

Mitsu3000gt
08-26-2020, 10:24 AM
Is this how you trade? :)

93779

That GIF is amazing.

killramos
08-26-2020, 10:24 AM
This thread is amazing.

Sorry msommers

max_boost
08-26-2020, 10:29 AM
Why you guys so baller man

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 10:37 AM
Why you guys so baller man

Sounds like Mitsu ain't baller enough to help us reach 7.2. Maybe we should shift our strategy to bcylau? He's hanging out with the 9 figure people.

Pacman
08-26-2020, 11:07 AM
Probably not a lot of these kinds of compensation arrangements around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Hunter_(trader)



That's a name I haven't heard in a while. What ever happened to him? Wonder if he's still in Calgary. He had set up a shop on 17th Ave about 10 years ago but there was a lot of heat on him.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 11:13 AM
That's a name I haven't heard in a while. What ever happened to him? Wonder if he's still in Calgary. He had set up a shop on 17th Ave about 10 years ago but there was a lot of heat on him.

SAF maybe? Not sure why he needs to work as his fine was less than his car collection.

Pacman
08-26-2020, 11:19 AM
SAF maybe? Not sure why he needs to work as his fine was less than his car collection.

didn't he make 100m one year and his fine was less than 1m? He even got a shoutout from Jim Cramer on CNBC when it all went down.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 11:22 AM
I kind of like Cramer now, but don't agree with Cramer from before.

https://www.pwlcapital.com/making-bets-with-other-peoples-money/


Hunter was the head gas trader for Amaranth Advisors (a hedge fund). In 2005, his trades netted Amaranth $1 billion. He received a $100 million bonus7

Now we come to the interesting part of the story. Four months after my Calgary talk, Hunter’s trades lost $6 billion.8 Amaranth folded.9 After many lawsuits, Hunter eventually settled with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in 2014, for a penalty of $750,000. As pointed out in the press, the penalty was less than the value of Hunter’s car collection, which included a Ferrari F430 Spider and a Bentley Arnage.10

killramos
08-26-2020, 11:25 AM
I hope one day I can do something shady and lucrative enough to net me my own Wikipedia page

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 11:27 AM
I hope one day I can do something shady and lucrative enough to net me my own Wikipedia page

Or you already have one and are just throwing us off the scent.

Buster
08-26-2020, 11:30 AM
I hope one day I can do something shady and lucrative enough to net me my own Wikipedia page

Even better would be to not have a wiki page.

The_Rural_Juror
08-26-2020, 11:30 AM
Buster DEFINITELY has a wikipedia page.

killramos
08-26-2020, 11:37 AM
Or you already have one and are just throwing us off the scent.

No Aspen money over here, and my car collection is a pickup truck

max_boost
08-26-2020, 11:40 AM
Buster DEFINITELY has a wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arrested_Development_characters#Buster_Bluth93780

this guy?

killramos
08-26-2020, 11:54 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arrested_Development_characters#Buster_Bluth93780

this guy?

93781

I’ve always pictured him a bit differently than that...

you&me
08-26-2020, 01:34 PM
To earn 9 figures, you might have to go 'rogue' - https://www.albertaventure.com/hunting-brian-hunter/2/2766

Edit - damnit, how did I miss a whole page? Should've known someone (*cough, Juror, cough*) would've brought him up... Interesting read, nonetheless.

Marsh
09-07-2020, 06:39 PM
To earn 9 figures, you might have to go 'rogue' - https://www.albertaventure.com/hunting-brian-hunter/2/2766

Edit - damnit, how did I miss a whole page? Should've known someone (*cough, Juror, cough*) would've brought him up... Interesting read, nonetheless.

Lol and some idiotic firm in Calgary thought "Hey, this guy blew up the last company he worked at. So lets put him in charge of our new operation!" :facepalm:

Pacman
09-07-2020, 08:27 PM
To earn 9 figures, you might have to go 'rogue' - https://www.albertaventure.com/hunting-brian-hunter/2/2766

Edit - damnit, how did I miss a whole page? Should've known someone (*cough, Juror, cough*) would've brought him up... Interesting read, nonetheless.

Is Juror the rouge trader?