financial advisors

[03ozwhip]

so i was talking with a buddy that spends way too much money on dumb shit with nothing saved and it made me think that I need to do better with that myself.

I dont want to go to my bank, because I personally know the financial advisors there and im not comfortable with my friends knowing my financial stuff.

Can anyone recommend someone to talk to? I want to actually retire someday lol

[max_boost]

Right here, what do you need bro?

My associates and I can help you :D
rx7boi BavarianBeast Buster The_Rural_Juror Disoblige A790

Are you looking for a path to 7.2? :bigpimp:

[Nakadah]

If you want to accumulate some savings it is quite simply: spend less than your make. Every year...

You don't need financial advisors. They are sales people...

[killramos]

They are sales people...

This is the real problem, it’s almost impossible to decouple financial advisory with someone trying to sell you a shitty mutual fund.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Obviously marry rich is the answer.

If she is not attractive, there are headphones with phenomenal wife cancelling technology like the Sony WH-1000XM4. If she
insists on eating in bed, use your newly found credit to purchase a split king mattress made by Ghostbed by Nature's Sleep which is on sale at Costco.ca. The crevasse in the middle makes a good crumb catcher.

Don't let her weird habits get you down. You have the mental fortitude to adapt quickly. Pretty soon, you will be sitting in your Aspen green yard enjoying a mocktail while instagramming to your pal.

Chin up brother! Is this a plan you think you can execute?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

If you want to accumulate some savings it is quite simply: spend less than your make. Every year...

You don't need financial advisors. They are sales people...

Yep pretty much. Either earn more and spend the same or earn the same and spend less.

For me I started having a small amount auto withdrawed from my chequing each week when I was 24 and haven’t touched it since, that is my retirement savings main account. Hopefully starting earlyish will help me overcome not having great income and career choices.

[03ozwhip]

Lol Beyond. You're all why I'm still here lol not alot of help, but hey haha but ya i mean I have figured that out, bit I think its better if I talk to someone who really knows how to make my money make money.

Plus I gotta figure out how much I can save every month and all that shit.

[2Legit2Quit]

Crypto riches $$$

[The_Rural_Juror]

Lol Beyond. You're all why I'm still here lol not alot of help, but hey haha but ya i mean I have figured that out, bit I think its better if I talk to someone who really knows how to make my money make money.

Plus I gotta figure out how much I can save every month and all that shit.

You want your money to have realsecks instead of buttsecks?

What do you expect? Like ask you pointless questions like how much is your income, networth, age, cost of living including hookers, when you want to retire, what kind of lifestyle in retirement, do you have useless spawn, and do you want to pay for your wife's retirement?

[Buster]

Lol Beyond. You're all why I'm still here lol not alot of help, but hey haha but ya i mean I have figured that out, bit I think its better if I talk to someone who really knows how to make my money make money.

Plus I gotta figure out how much I can save every month and all that shit.

The type of financial advisor you have access to is largely dependent on how much you have to invest.

[The_Rural_Juror]

The type of financial advisor you have access to is largely dependent on how much you have to invest.

Exactly. If you have zero to invest, you get me.

[Nakadah]

Lol Beyond. You're all why I'm still here lol not alot of help, but hey haha but ya i mean I have figured that out, bit I think its better if I talk to someone who really knows how to make my money make money.

Plus I gotta figure out how much I can save every month and all that shit.

I have been more helpful to you than a financial advisor at a bank branch whose primary job function is sales and who has a quota to meet. The idea of "really knows how to make my money make money" is a beautifully sounding notion, but before you can reach this you need to have some serious savings - i.e. $50k won't cut it...

What you might be actually seeking is a financial planner, but then again, you need to have some net worth before you can utilize their services... How much you can save every month is a basic arithmetic exercise. You can do it yourself.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I disagree. You can be financially literate without a financial advisor or a sizable networth.

Also. $50k is more than enough to yolo. Where did you get the $50k number from?

[killramos]

Open a wealth simple account. Put as much money in it every month as you can. Don’t take the money out of the account.

...

Profit. Literally.

*not financial advise*

[A790]

Don't look at investing as long as you have non-mortgage debt. Pay that off first. Once you're non-mortgage debt free:

1) Open a HISA at EQ Bank and save 6 months of living expenses

2) If you make under $100k, open a TFSA and contribute funds until you max it. If you have a long time horizon (15+ years), buy VGRO. Under that, buy VBAL. If you make over $100k, it may make more sense to start with your RRSP vs TFSA.

3) Once your TFSA is maxed, look at your RRSP. Or vice versa.

4) Once your TFSA/RRSP are maxed, look at putting money down on your mortgage.

====

The above is more or less what most people should do. If you want professional guidance that factors in things such as insurance and estate planning, I suggest you look for an independant fee-based advisor. The kind you pay $150/hr+ for lol.

Avoid mutual funds, as they are an expensive investment vehicle that don't offer many benefits aside from fractional shares and no trading fees. Instead, ETFs are basically mutual funds that trade on the stock market only they are much less expensive to hold. Both ETFs and mutual funds are paid via a managment expense ratio (MER). The MER on VGRO is 0.28% or something, whereas most mutual funds are 2%+. That means that if your investments return 3%, with VGRO you'd see 2.72% whereas with a mutual you'd see 1% or less.

The key to investing as discipline. Have a plan and stick to it. Avoid penny stocks and shitty companies. Don't buy stocks/ETFs strictly for the yield/dividend.

Most of my money is in VGRO, though.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I still believe that I have given the best advice so far. Can't blame me if he's ugly.

[D'z Nutz]

Exactly. If you have zero to invest, you get me.

Sounds like 03ozwhip needs to put all his money into RRJR.

[max_boost]

Tbh, you start small and ez pz, what can you cut? What can you sacrifice? no one will care about your money more than you bro

Play with this calculator, good times https://www.dinkytown.net/java/savings-calculator-canadian.html

Excess money? Invest it but think long term, don't look at it everyday.

Simple portfolio

XBAL 60% stocks, 40% bonds
XGRO 80% stocks, 20% bonds ---> i like this one and recommend it but you won't get to 7.2 tho or it'll take a long time

[90_Shelby]

Don't look at investing as long as you have non-mortgage debt. Pay that off first. Once you're non-mortgage debt free:

1) Open a HISA at EQ Bank and save 6 months of living expenses

2) If you make under $100k, open a TFSA and contribute funds until you max it. If you have a long time horizon (15+ years), buy VGRO. Under that, buy VBAL. If you make over $100k, it may make more sense to start with your RRSP vs TFSA.

3) Once your TFSA is maxed, look at your RRSP. Or vice versa.

4) Once your TFSA/RRSP are maxed, look at putting money down on your mortgage.

====

The above is more or less what most people should do. If you want professional guidance that factors in things such as insurance and estate planning, I suggest you look for an independant fee-based advisor. The kind you pay $150/hr+ for lol.

Avoid mutual funds, as they are an expensive investment vehicle that don't offer many benefits aside from fractional shares and no trading fees. Instead, ETFs are basically mutual funds that trade on the stock market only they are much less expensive to hold. Both ETFs and mutual funds are paid via a managment expense ratio (MER). The MER on VGRO is 0.28% or something, whereas most mutual funds are 2%+. That means that if your investments return 3%, with VGRO you'd see 2.72% whereas with a mutual you'd see 1% or less.

The key to investing as discipline. Have a plan and stick to it. Avoid penny stocks and shitty companies. Don't buy stocks/ETFs strictly for the yield/dividend.

Most of my money is in VGRO, though.

All of this and as someone else stated, spend less then you make. No further financial advice needed.

You’ll have 7.2 in the bank and a Trackhawk in the driveway in no time! (Or a long time, but at least you’ll be saving.)

[The_Rural_Juror]

Rubbish. That ain't the route to Tendie Town.

[03ozwhip]

Few things. I have a car payment, about 700 a month, but 0 debt other than that. I will have a mortgage soon enough, however, I dont know what that mortgage will be as I havent found a house yet.

I make decent money over 100k gross and I have some RRSP and some savings. In my line of work, I get laid off from time to time, so always investing may not be an option for me, in case I need to dip into savings.

So putting money into a layoff savings and an rrsp is probably what I need to do to start.

[dezmarez]

Don't look at investing as long as you have non-mortgage debt. Pay that off first. Once you're non-mortgage debt free:

1) Open a HISA at EQ Bank and save 6 months of living expenses

2) If you make under $100k, open a TFSA and contribute funds until you max it. If you have a long time horizon (15+ years), buy VGRO. Under that, buy VBAL. If you make over $100k, it may make more sense to start with your RRSP vs TFSA.

3) Once your TFSA is maxed, look at your RRSP. Or vice versa.

4) Once your TFSA/RRSP are maxed, look at putting money down on your mortgage.

====

The above is more or less what most people should do. If you want professional guidance that factors in things such as insurance and estate planning, I suggest you look for an independant fee-based advisor. The kind you pay $150/hr+ for lol.

Avoid mutual funds, as they are an expensive investment vehicle that don't offer many benefits aside from fractional shares and no trading fees. Instead, ETFs are basically mutual funds that trade on the stock market only they are much less expensive to hold. Both ETFs and mutual funds are paid via a managment expense ratio (MER). The MER on VGRO is 0.28% or something, whereas most mutual funds are 2%+. That means that if your investments return 3%, with VGRO you'd see 2.72% whereas with a mutual you'd see 1% or less.

The key to investing as discipline. Have a plan and stick to it. Avoid penny stocks and shitty companies. Don't buy stocks/ETFs strictly for the yield/dividend.

Most of my money is in VGRO, though.



Love it. Simple advice a large portion of the population could go off of.

[rx7boi]

The boys have it covered already. Just simple math.

Start by getting that emergency fund cause life happens. Always pay yourself first and sock away at least 15% of your gross income per month. Investing's not a sprint so you should always be able to put some money away.

Are you on EI during lay off periods? How long do those last?

[03ozwhip]

The boys have it covered already. Just simple math.

Start by getting that emergency fund cause life happens. Always pay yourself first and sock away at least 15% of your gross income per month. Investing's not a sprint so you should always be able to put some money away.

Are you on EI during lay off periods? How long do those last?

Ya i try and stick to that, doesn't always happen. I do go on EI, most of the time its just a month or 2 a year, but this was my longest at almost 4 months due to covid and shit.

You never know how the industry will work being a welder in the field.

[A790]

Ya i try and stick to that, doesn't always happen. I do go on EI, most of the time its just a month or 2 a year, but this was my longest at almost 4 months due to covid and shit.

You never know how the industry will work being a welder in the field.

Hence why the first step is to save 6 months (or more) of living expenses.

Also, pay off your car loan first unless it's 0% interest.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Hence why the first step is to save 6 months (or more) of living expenses.

Also, pay off your car loan first unless it's 0% interest.

Why car loan before credit and high interest loans? If you go bankrupt, you can keep your house and car right?
6 months is a bare minimum in my opinion when times are good. Use the 6 month's savings to grow into 7, 8, 9+ months over the years.

[ercchry]

Why are savings and investments mutually exclusive? Money is also cheap right now.

Currently he is sitting on his nest egg completely liquid as he sold his house. This should be put into something that’s easily turned back liquid but safe and garnishes a return.

Once a property is found, I’d say go with a manulife one account. Flexibility of cheap money on demand if needed, but can keep his leverage low and interest paid at a minimum when times are good.

Sitting on cash is dangerous for most people, especially when they need non-chrome wheels for their lightening :rofl:

[88CRX]

Thread hijack.

Have all my banking with RBC (convenience I guess). Some savings sitting in high interest savings accounts (which is basically 0% now), bunch sitting in low risk RRSP's (mutual funds) and some sitting in a TFSA (savings account cause there was nothing in it up until recently).

How do I get some into VGRO? And what risk level is something like VGRO?

Also I don't have the time or knowledge to be trading shit all the time. I believe that would be couch potato investing, thats 100% me haha.

[killramos]

Either open a direct investing account(S) and transfer money from esavings into DI, then buy VGRO which is an etf listed on the TSX.

VGRO invests 80% into the general equities market and 20% into fixed income bonds. It’s not without risk but is is wel diversified and considered a growth portfolio.

If you want to play around with registered, open one non registered account, one account for TFSA, and 1 account for RSP.

Transfer money from existing registered accounts into corresponding registered DI account (TFSA to TFSA, RSP to RSP). From there manage your contribution limits annually. This is important because you can’t pull money in and out of these accounts Willy nilly but if you keep them inside the same registered vehicle you can move money without triggering issues.

You can open a practice account with RBC to learn the mechanics of trading but it’s pretty straightforward.

If that is overwhelming, consider opening a wealth simple account instead.

[Masked Bandit]

so i was talking with a buddy that spends way too much money on dumb shit with nothing saved and it made me think that I need to do better with that myself.

I dont want to go to my bank, because I personally know the financial advisors there and im not comfortable with my friends knowing my financial stuff.

Can anyone recommend someone to talk to? I want to actually retire someday lol

I'm going to go with the 30,000 FT. view here.

The very first thing you should invest in is self education on the world of personal finance. Don't talk to the bank, they're sales people. The vast majority of firms in the financial services space are just sales people, teach yourself first. Books, podcasts, blogs...consume it all and you'll notice pretty quickly a few recurring themes across all of the platforms. Don't get buried in details at this point, you're looking for very broad concepts first and once you've got that pinned down then start focusing on details. Your money isn't going anywhere in the next six months but you can learn more than 95% of the general population during that same time. Some starting points I would recommend:

Books - The Wealthy Barber Returns, The Millionaire Next Door, Wealthing Like Rabbits.
Podcasts - Canadian Couch Potato (once you're read the three books above).
Blog - Mr. Money Mustache. A word of warning here, the FIRE crowd can get a bit fanatical at times, the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to but the general ideas embraced by these folks are of value to everyone.

Success in the world of personal finance is much more about general mindset and less about the fine details.

[tonytiger55]

Lol Beyond. You're all why I'm still here lol not alot of help, but hey haha but ya i mean I have figured that out, bit I think its better if I talk to someone who really knows how to make my money make money.

Plus I gotta figure out how much I can save every month and all that shit.

When you go to see a advisor. In most cases they will get you to start investing. Stop for a moment.
What they should be doing and what you want to do first is clean up your financial profile. This is where you start first.
What that means is, they will look at your whole picture, your income, savings, expenditure, your age, partner, age of vehicle, goals and see if its in a normal range of someone in that kind of bracket (not mutually exclusive to income) and see any upcoming issues. This will help fixing any upcoming bumps and make hitting short, medium and long term goals easier.
Once this is cleaned up. Then I would advise deciding on which path you want to follow.

There are two schools of thought. Its entirely up to you want to follow. One of them is using money to invest as its so cheap to borrow.

The other is using a eastern/Asian/East Indian approach to your money to buy/finance key assets and hold no debit. There is a good debit and bad debit.

For example, you may be making 100k gross and you think may be doing well. But compared to others in a similar ish range, you may be doing pretty shit. For example, in my opinion if one is making 100k gross. Why do you have a car payment? That makes no sense to me. As you can see I follow the latter path.
But depending on how you have structured your financial profile, financing a vehicle may be good thing as that jigsaw piece fits in with your entire profile (writing off taxes, passive income etc). Money is so cheap to borrow right now. Again, this is dependent how one has structured their financial profile and finances to support that school of thought.

That part is figured out using a variety of tools. Ive mentioned a few in previous posts in the past. Banks don't do this. it is not in their interest to help you play the long game. They want as much out of you right away.

A790 pretty much covered most if it. To start cleaning it up takes a minimum of six months if not a year. But it is worth is as it sets you up for the rest of your life.

[A790]

Why car loan before credit and high interest loans? If you go bankrupt, you can keep your house and car right?
6 months is a bare minimum in my opinion when times are good. Use the 6 month's savings to grow into 7, 8, 9+ months over the years.

OP identified that they don't have any other debt outside of the car loan. Otherwise, yea, focus on the high-interest stuff.

RE: 6 months or more of savings, it depends on your situation. I have 18 months of cash sitting around right now. I'm also self-employed, do not qualify for any type of assistance from anybody, and am in a very competitive space. Contracts come and go.

If I worked a stable job at a solid company, or if I qualified for EI in the event of income loss, perhaps I'd just have 6.

The current economic environment is not favourable to holding cash. EQ pays 1.7% right now in their accounts, down from 2% just a few weeks ago, and the low-interest rate environment isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Plus, asset prices are skyrocketing. I'm not sure it's a smart move to hold MORE than 6 months right now.

Then again, who knows what the "smart move" right now even is. I'm just buying every Friday and hoping to fuck the economic house of cards that we are in doesn't come crashing down before I die.

[Nakadah]

Few things. I have a car payment, about 700 a month, but 0 debt other than that. I will have a mortgage soon enough, however, I dont know what that mortgage will be as I havent found a house yet.

I make decent money over 100k gross and I have some RRSP and some savings. In my line of work, I get laid off from time to time, so always investing may not be an option for me, in case I need to dip into savings.

So putting money into a layoff savings and an rrsp is probably what I need to do to start.

For you the biggest challenge will be psychological. It is realizing that you need to create a budget and stick within. What you need to start doing is instead of thinking how much per month something is, start thinking how much in total it is/will be. Examine your spending habit for the past 5 years and determine whether you want to continue on the same path. With $100k gross income you absolutely should have savings...

You should start with the basics and get in the habit of accumulating savings. Once you have established this then you can think about investing.


There is a good debit and bad debit.

This is something that very few people realize and something very important.

Bad debt - consumables - i.e. cars, luxury items, houses, etc...
Good debt - I am unable to provide examples that relate to individuals.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Bad debt - consumables - i.e. cars, luxury items, houses, etc...
Good debt - I am unable to provide examples that relate to individuals.

He said debit sir.

Good debt is not paying off a low interest car loan so that you can pay the debt that you owe to your mom before she starts rationing your tp.

[Disoblige]

He said debit sir.

Good debt is not paying off a low interest car loan so that you can pay the debt that you owe to your mom before she starts rationing your tp.
Not sure what you are talking about. Mom debt is forever and there is no repayment that can satisfy fully.

As soon as you snuck through those beefy curtains, your debt was set in stone.

[RawB8figure]

Great long potential (10-15years) with low downside risk would be cloud ETF's.
SKYY
CLOU

[A790]

Great long potential (10-15years) with low downside risk would be cloud ETF's.
SKYY
CLOU

When OP has $250k in investments, sure speculative bets are a good way to go.

Get your financial ducks in a row before speculating. You aren't exactly going to go broke tracking the index.

[rx7boi]

Agreed. Have a good, diversified foundation saved up before going into speculative and taking increased risk.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I wouldn't speculate until 7.2. Even then just the 0.2 because I am too delicate to live under Ogden bridge.

[03ozwhip]

Most of the shit im reading on here, I know nothing about ie: stocks and trading and whatever 7.2 means. I'd like to learn, but like someone else said, I want my financial ducks in a row.

I've been a bit bad at spending over the years, but I've curbed it and im ready to really get the shit together so I can save more as I dont have alot of savings/rrsp's/pension, definitely not 6 months in savings, more like 3, thats if I had a house right now.

I dont know what kind if house I want to buy yet, I know my limit, but im thinking of really downgrading at this point, just so I can save more, but it has to be my last house for a long time, so I still want to be happy with it.

Im rambling, but I am still going to an advisor, at least to find out where I should start with my money, it doesn't hurt to talk to someone in person that knows better than I do.

Edit: also, my interest rate on my car is 1.99

[Buster]

7.2

The first rule of 7.2...is you dont talk about 7.2

[A790]

Most of the shit im reading on here, I know nothing about ie: stocks and trading and whatever 7.2 means. I'd like to learn, but like someone else said, I want my financial ducks in a row.

I've been a bit bad at spending over the years, but I've curbed it and im ready to really get the shit together so I can save more as I dont have alot of savings/rrsp's/pension, definitely not 6 months in savings, more like 3, thats if I had a house right now.

I dont know what kind if house I want to buy yet, I know my limit, but im thinking of really downgrading at this point, just so I can save more, but it has to be my last house for a long time, so I still want to be happy with it.

Im rambling, but I am still going to an advisor, at least to find out where I should start with my money, it doesn't hurt to talk to someone in person that knows better than I do.

Edit: also, my interest rate on my car is 1.99

Dude. Unless it's a fee-based advisor, you are going to be talking to a salesperson.

Follow the steps I outlined unless you really want another person, who wants to sell you investments, to tell you a version of the same.

[killramos]

The first rule of 7.2...is you dont talk about 7.2

So that’s why AMG is going to 73, this all makes complete sense now.

[rx7boi]

Dude. Unless it's a fee-based advisor, you are going to be talking to a salesperson.

Follow the steps I outlined unless you really want another person, who wants to sell you investments, to tell you a version of the same.

Sometimes the best way to learn is slowly. If OP ends up getting years of janky returns, it might inspire him to think about why and seek out learning material as mentioned.

Providing an investing "panacea" like VGRO with context just doesn't do the job sometimes, especially if they don't know what they want and also because money is a deeply personal thing.

TL;DR, OP doesn't know Beyonders from Joe Blow off the street and wants to experience the journey himself. I respect that.

PS: Going to break Buster's rule and just let OP know that 7.2 is a stupid inside joke about needing millions to retire, so he can separate the jokes from the real talk.

[90_Shelby]

There has been sound advice in here and you can still go and see an advisor and ask them about some of the topics discussed here. I would agree that you should avoid buying any mutual funds that they may try and sell you but make sure you open the following accounts while you’re there.

- high interest savings account
-direct investing TFSA account
- direct investing RRSP account

I’d recommend that until you’re confident enough to take the plunge and buy VGRO and load up either your TFSA or RRSP, separate your savings from your chequing account so you’re gaining a bit more interest and you’ll be less tempted to spend it.

[Disoblige]

... and whatever 7.2 means.
Don't worry about it if your kids drink pop.

[dezmarez]

Kind of off topic to the original purpose of the thread but ties into what is being discussed above.

ETF's are great for their low cost, but it is interesting that VGRO is touted as the "higher risk" where VBAL is considered "lower risk", however if you look at their performance Since Inception, it is almost identical (all be it less than 5 years) however, the volatility experience in VGRO is elevated, which could lead to emotional decisions. See chart below.

I know it is crazy to think investors still make emotional decisions, but the pain threshold an investor is willing to tolerate before they throw in the towel is very real.

Also, I know that MUTUAL FUNDS ARE BAD, is the consensus opinion on beyond, however, there are still some great, low cost, funds out there.

Take "Mawer Balanced" as an example. I charted it out against VGRO and VBAL, since those were launched, and you can see a bit better performance, but also less downside performance, which would likely keep an investor invested.

Plus the MER is 0.91%. Downside is you need $5k minimum to purchase.

93809

93810

[The_Rural_Juror]

I like Mawer. I hate that OP ignores my helpful suggestions.

I think he should buy options on leveraged ETFs on margin against a HELOC. What could go wrong?

[Gainsbarre]

There has been sound advice in here and you can still go and see an advisor and ask them about some of the topics discussed here. I would agree that you should avoid buying any mutual funds that they may try and sell you but make sure you open the following accounts while you’re there.

- high interest savings account
-direct investing TFSA account
- direct investing RRSP account

I’d recommend that until you’re confident enough to take the plunge and buy VGRO and load up either your TFSA or RRSP, separate your savings from your chequing account so you’re gaining a bit more interest and you’ll be less tempted to spend it.

With the advent of ETFs (generally lower fees and broader portfolios) I'd stay away from mutual funds entirely. Furthermore I don't think there are any brick-and-mortar financial institutions that offer a high interest savings account with an interest rate that is even remotely competitive - I believe that their non-promotional rates are all 0.25% or less. The larger banks I bank with are TD and HSBC, and I only use them for their investment accounts (TFSA, RSP, LIRA, unregistered CAD/USD accounts).

Check out https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/ for the best high interest savings accounts. I have ones with Bridgewater, Motive, EQ Bank, AcceleRate, Achieva and Hubert. Only the ones with Motive and EQ Bank have non-negligible amounts in them at the moment. EQ is probably the easiest bank to work with. Motive is OK. Most of the others are still kind of stuck in the 20th century. You still can't do things online with Bridgewater. I should get around to opening an account with Canadian Tire bank (to chase that 0.05%, lol) but they'll probably lower their rates just in time for my account opening. I also have (or had) accounts with Tangerine, Simplii, and Manulife, who can offer competitive promotional rates, but lackluster (think < 0.25%) regular/everyday interest rates.

Follow the money steps here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/wiki/money-steps

Personal finance writers who give out good advice (imo) are Gail Vaz-Oxlade, David Chilton, and Andrew Hallam. Ones I'd can't recommend include Dave Ramsey and Robert Kiyosaki.

[msommers]

Sometimes the best way to learn is slowly. If OP ends up getting years of janky returns, it might inspire him to think about why and seek out learning material as mentioned.



From personal experience, this is accurate.

[91_Integz]

Kind of off topic to the original purpose of the thread but ties into what is being discussed above.

ETF's are great for their low cost, but it is interesting that VGRO is touted as the "higher risk" where VBAL is considered "lower risk", however if you look at their performance Since Inception, it is almost identical (all be it less than 5 years) however, the volatility experience in VGRO is elevated, which could lead to emotional decisions. See chart below.

I know it is crazy to think investors still make emotional decisions, but the pain threshold an investor is willing to tolerate before they throw in the towel is very real.

Also, I know that MUTUAL FUNDS ARE BAD, is the consensus opinion on beyond, however, there are still some great, low cost, funds out there.

Take "Mawer Balanced" as an example. I charted it out against VGRO and VBAL, since those were launched, and you can see a bit better performance, but also less downside performance, which would likely keep an investor invested.

Plus the MER is 0.91%. Downside is you need $5k minimum to purchase.

RE: VGRO vs. VBAL - while their performance over the last couple years has been similar, expected returns in the future shouldn't be. Volatility and expected return are primarily driven by asset mix - ie the ratio between stocks and bonds. VGRO has higher stock exposure (80%) than VBAL (60%), and therefore has a higher expected return over the LONG TERM. I'd take that bet 100 times out of a 100. If we are talking about RRSP assets you aren't going to touch for 20+ years, VGRO with regular monthly contributions will get you further ahead than VBAL. The reason VBAL performance is similar to to VGRO over the last couple years is because of interest rate declines and excess return from the fixed income portion of the portfolio. Don't expect this to the be case moving forward, especially if/when interest rates start to increase to normal levels.

I totally agree with you about the emotional decisions comment - as others have said in this thread, the key is to get into something that you aren't going to bail on if it's down 20 or 30%. View the decline as opportunity, and increase your contributions during that period if you're able. If you're going to bail on any investment you have (VBAL, VGRO, or whatever the case is), you're just going to make investing wayyyyy harder than it needs to be.

There are some great, low cost funds out there. There are segments of the market where active management is MUCH better than indexing (corporate fixed income, small cap etc), but for most people looking for a one stop simple solution, something like VBAL, VGRO is perfectly fine, and will get you where you want to be.

Mawer is a FANTASTIC equity manager - one of the best, if not the best, in Canada. I've followed them, and used them regularly for over a decade. Fixed income management isn't their strength, but overall Mawer Balanced @ 0.91% is one of the best active management solutions out there. The beauty of Mawer Balanced is you get access to a few of their underlying strategies that are capped to new investment (Mawer New Canada (Canadian small cap) is one example).

[A790]

Sometimes the best way to learn is slowly. If OP ends up getting years of janky returns, it might inspire him to think about why and seek out learning material as mentioned.

Providing an investing "panacea" like VGRO with context just doesn't do the job sometimes, especially if they don't know what they want and also because money is a deeply personal thing.

TL;DR, OP doesn't know Beyonders from Joe Blow off the street and wants to experience the journey himself. I respect that.

PS: Going to break Buster's rule and just let OP know that 7.2 is a stupid inside joke about needing millions to retire, so he can separate the jokes from the real talk.

Fair enough my friend, you make a good point. I'm just trying to save the OP some money and painful lessons lol.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Again. I like Mawer. Not a single EIT on their roster to fuck up the portfolio.

[ZenOps]

If you want a doom and gloom scenario, you could always do the Schiff.

W9k5tPQF_VU

Its not an imposssible scenario that a US dollar collapse would wipe out the entire stock market, or at least most of it.

[Kobe]

If you want a doom and gloom scenario, you could always do the Schiff.

W9k5tPQF_VU

Its not an imposssible scenario that a US dollar collapse would wipe out the entire stock market, or at least most of it.

I don't like Schiff for his BTC views and so bullish in gold but everything he says is so fucken spot on, I'd highly recommend doing research and not talking to a bank advisor about what to invest into.

All those stocks are really over valued and are holding on by a thread right now IMO. (I could be wrong on this)

But from what I see and reading

Bubbles everywhere.


Largest equity Bubble (Pension and buyback bubble)
Largest wave of retirees of all time (The pension crisis, where retirees own all the stocks and credit
The Corportate credible bubble (Where did stimulus money go?)
The student loan bubble (Mostly USA)
Auto loan bubble
Indexation bubble
ETF market structure bubble
Foreign borrowings bubble (Dollar standard bubble)
Tje Monetary policy bubble (As stated we in MP3 now)
The EU Banking bubble (Deutsche bank)



If anyone wants to tell you everything is okay since they profit from you investing in ETFS then so be it.

Peter Schiff also had a good one on Joe Rogan recently (I didn't listen to the one above yet)

Issue with him is he is so strongly for gold but again if everyone rushes into something it creates a bubble. (Not that i'm against gold)

Also Fed is trying to get inflation over 2% right now with the TRILLIONS injected but there is no inflation right now, could it be what Japan experienced in the 1990s? (I think that's when)

Please do research yourself with reading a shitton rather then taking the lazy way and asking someone who benefits from your investments.

Try to find people who have zero benefit from your actions and just explain the situation well and then you can make your own decisions.

[Buster]

Peter Schiff is just like everyone else... He talks his book.

[dezmarez]

RE: VGRO vs. VBAL - while their performance over the last couple years has been similar, expected returns in the future shouldn't be. Volatility and expected return are primarily driven by asset mix - ie the ratio between stocks and bonds. VGRO has higher stock exposure (80%) than VBAL (60%), and therefore has a higher expected return over the LONG TERM. I'd take that bet 100 times out of a 100. If we are talking about RRSP assets you aren't going to touch for 20+ years, VGRO with regular monthly contributions will get you further ahead than VBAL. The reason VBAL performance is similar to to VGRO over the last couple years is because of interest rate declines and excess return from the fixed income portion of the portfolio. Don't expect this to the be case moving forward, especially if/when interest rates start to increase to normal levels.

I totally agree with you about the emotional decisions comment - as others have said in this thread, the key is to get into something that you aren't going to bail on if it's down 20 or 30%. View the decline as opportunity, and increase your contributions during that period if you're able. If you're going to bail on any investment you have (VBAL, VGRO, or whatever the case is), you're just going to make investing wayyyyy harder than it needs to be.

There are some great, low cost funds out there. There are segments of the market where active management is MUCH better than indexing (corporate fixed income, small cap etc), but for most people looking for a one stop simple solution, something like VBAL, VGRO is perfectly fine, and will get you where you want to be.

Mawer is a FANTASTIC equity manager - one of the best, if not the best, in Canada. I've followed them, and used them regularly for over a decade. Fixed income management isn't their strength, but overall Mawer Balanced @ 0.91% is one of the best active management solutions out there. The beauty of Mawer Balanced is you get access to a few of their underlying strategies that are capped to new investment (Mawer New Canada (Canadian small cap) is one example).

Haha I know the asset allocation plays a significant role and that over the long term, in theory, VGRO should perform. Which is why I mentioned short term. The key point I was trying to make is the pain index an investor is willing to tolerate and how these things are marketed to the average investor. Yes sticking to a strategy is super easy in theory, but I would say a lot of people were making decisions in March this year that were detrimental to their overall portfolio, based on the volatility they experienced.

Also, have a look at some examples of how some passive 60/40 and 80/20 funds have done over a long time period. The annual rate of returns are quite similar. Again, the reason I point this out is someone more likely to bail on their investment portfolio if they are in a higher volatile portfolio.

Check out those 20 year annualized rate of returns. ;)

https://cdn.canadiancouchpotato.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/CCP-Model-Portfolios-Vanguard-ETFs-2019.pdf

As for funds and Mawer, again thatÂ’s the point IÂ’m trying to make. Funds get painted with this large brush of being shitty and brutal, yet that is not true at all.

[ZenOps]

The one thing that noone is talking about is the ridonkulous price of lumber/pressure treated lumber. Literally 4x the price of March.

For a lot of people its a consumed commodity not unlike a cooked chicken. If a chicken was $8 in march and $32 now, people would be readying their guns. Work all day to be able to afford two fenceposts? We are there.

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/micropro-sienna-6-x-6-x-12-treated-wood/1000790733

Oil as a commodity? Dying a painful death from a demand and price standpoint.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Don't buy gold. Buy lumber.

[ZenOps]

If you want my crackpot theory: Buy wine. Right now there is a glut from the restaurants closing down. But the California wildfires are raging out of control and if they hit the valleys - it will take a lot of grapes with them. That, and the wine market is magnitude smaller than the silver market. Literally 0.1% Buffett type spending could shift wine. Will people actually be able to get an Argentinian or French wine if they slow or shut down the ports? Availability is a huge factor.

If Pepperoni is a high value item because of its difficulty to make, wine is right up there too. Although arguably, millenials and GenZ can't afford wine as is now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/food/2020/08/16/pepperoni-shortage-covid-19-shortage-higher-prices/5595762002/

As far as metals go, nickel of course - because its hard to acquire.

https://www.androidauthority.com/how-pay-1-billion-apple-pack-20-billion-nickel-coins-30-samsung-delivery-trucks-111417/

Stocks? Psshh, all you get at the end of that are US dollars.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I feel that we should take a step back and gauge how useful this thread has been to the OP.

[ZenOps]

Its a rhetorical question. Nobody gets to retire nowadays. Unless you have a money printer in your basement.

[ZenOps]

60% of every freshly printed US dollar now goes toward debt services, $26 Trillion and counting for the USA alone.

What makes things crazy scary is that it used to be only a handful of nations that printed money. During this crisis - All nations are printing money. Which does mean you *might* want to find alternate means of savings. Two tons of nickels would be a start.

[M.alex]

Again. I like Mawer. Not a single EIT on their roster to fuck up the portfolio.

Indeed. I put most of my trading account into Mawer Balanced (MAW104) or Tax Advantaged Balanced (MAW105) fund. It's not super sexy returns, but it's nice and simple and consistent growth and low MER. Hard to go wrong if you want just set-it-and-forget-it

[msommers]

Those look pretty good for a 'forget it' plan. I wonder how Vanguard's offerings will compare over a longer term.

[dezmarez]

Those look pretty good for a 'forget it' plan. I wonder how Vanguard's offerings will compare over a longer term.

Right? Huge fan of them.

Also, the thing with those Vanguard funds, there is still going to be some decisions being made on asset allocation within them. It's not like you are just buying 80% Total Market Index and 20% Global Bond Index. That asset allocation decision alone is going to have an impact on performance.

Again, for the average person, building a sleep at night account, and if they don't have the time, knowledge or desire to manage. Any one of those will be a good option....as long as they can stick to the set it and forget it strategy.

[Buster]

Right? Huge fan of them.

Also, the thing with those Vanguard funds, there is still going to be some decisions being made on asset allocation within them. It's not like you are just buying 80% Total Market Index and 20% Global Bond Index. That asset allocation decision alone is going to have an impact on performance.

Again, for the average person, building a sleep at night account, and if they don't have the time, knowledge or desire to manage. Any one of those will be a good option....as long as they can stick to the set it and forget it strategy.

what asset allocation decisions are being made within VGRO and XGRO (other than the mix of equities and FI)?

[dezmarez]

what asset allocation decisions are being made within VGRO and XGRO (other than the mix of equities and FI)?

Well from my understanding, they set an internal benchmark in terms of their strategic asset allocation, and use index funds to stick to that internal benchmark.
There is still some decision making, in terms of % weighted towards US equities, CAD equities etc.

It's not like you are investing 80% in a Total World Market Fund. 30% of VGRO's 80% equity exposure is in Canada. Just look at the difference between VGRO and XGRO. You will see they don't have the same asset allocation.

Again, splitting hairs at this point, but again, there is still some level of strategic asset allocation.

[max_boost]

Seeing how Beyond is basically gonna be here forever I hope all y’all stick around and we can bump this.

[ZenOps]

Yup, old farts on here might want to invest in a bottle full of zinc gummies above all other things. That being said: You want to be sure you are not deficient in any vitamin going into the school openings, when the walking toddlers of ultimate disease spreading start interacting.

Why gummies (or oil) because if your digestive system gets hit, zinc in dry pill form might not break down properly. As an emergency, you can suck on a zinc lozenge.

What good is money if you have lung, heart or brain damage?

The most important thing is probably to read up on what form of zinc is best absorbed by the body, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, zinc acetate, or zinc ?

[The_Rural_Juror]

Neuralink will be able to transplant my consciousness into a jar in 30 years.

93873

[ZenOps]

Its also worth mentioning: If you like Pepperoni pizza, you better have it soon. If more of the meat plants start catching and Biden gets in, there may not be such a thing as pepperoni in 2021.

This plays into wine, are you really going to buy a 2020 or 2021 that has been squished by human feet? Might be last chance.

d8g7G2ZzeAA

[ZenOps]

Seriously though, it looks like everyone who got a stimulus check in the USA put it into Tesla. Can't blame them either, the first time you have a major repair on a combustion engine is the day you realize how stupid it all is.

[rx7boi]

Stop it, ZenOps.

[ZenOps]

Whut, Tesla $45 a year ago today. Now well over $450.

Never seen anything like it, but no doubt people just want the electric car to be a thing.

What is the price of a pre-covid wine? Could easily do a lumber, especially if they ban the production of some wines due to the way they have to process it (which is very unsanitary, you would never have twenty Chinese people in a vat stomping grapes being able to sell to the European market)

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/08/wine-investment.asp

History has taught me that what white people in the USA like is what you tend to want as an investment, because they don't have a grasp on relative value or effort, they only know consumption.. Did Buzz know at the time that $7,000 a year was a good or bad wage?

[The_Rural_Juror]

450 is after the 5:1 split.

[ZenOps]

I haven't even mentioned that I think that two of the big five banks may come under some form of insolvency or nationalization. Arguably, If Galen Weston makes 15% on a loaf of bread, and Apple makes 30% on every software distribution sale, and it only costs them 1% in overhead - then why exactly do they need the bank? The answer is they don't need the bank. Its a useless underperforming entity to the billionaires.

At 0.0% interest rates, the entire banking sector becomes obsolete to the people that matter most to the banks, said billionaires. The only place left for the banks to make money is on predatory loans.

But hey, why listen to a guy who thinks that the moon landing never happened, you do what you feel is best for yourself.

[Kobe]

I haven't even mentioned that I think that two of the big five banks may come under some form of insolvency or nationalization. Arguably, If Galen Weston makes 15% on a loaf of bread, and Apple makes 30% on every software distribution sale, and it only costs them 1% in overhead - then why exactly do they need the bank? The answer is they don't need the bank. Its a useless underperforming entity to the billionaires.

At 0.0% interest rates, the entire banking sector becomes obsolete to the people that matter most to the banks, said billionaires. The only place left for the banks to make money is on predatory loans.

But hey, why listen to a guy who thinks that the moon landing never happened, you do what you feel is best for yourself.

I'm assuming bank of america not sure what the other is but Deutsche Bank is right there as well I think (didn't read much about it but know they are struggling hard)