Bye WhatsApp

[mr2mike]

So where is everyone moving towards for the next messaging app?

Signal has a big outage happening. Too many new subscribers.

[Mitsu3000gt]

People don't usually like to change their messaging apps because getting everyone they know to also change is too much effort. I personally think most people will just continue using WhatsApp because it's the path of least resistance and Facebook probably already has all their information from their FB/Insta accounts haha.

I am not sure if any of this has been third party verified, but WhatsApp tried to address the Privacy concerns:


We can’t see your private messages or hear your calls, and neither can Facebook: Neither WhatsApp nor Facebook can read your messages or hear your calls with your friends, family, and co-workers on WhatsApp. Whatever you share, it stays between you. That’s because your personal messages are protected by end-to-end encryption. We will never weaken this security and we clearly label each chat so you know our commitment.

We don’t keep logs of who everyone is messaging or calling: While traditionally mobile carriers and operators store this information, we believe that keeping these records for two billion users would be both a privacy and security risk and we don’t do it.

We can’t see your shared location and neither can Facebook: When you share your location with someone on WhatsApp, your location is protected by end-to-end encryption, which means no one can see your location except the people you share it with.

We don’t share your contacts with Facebook: When you give us permission, we access only the phone numbers from your address book to make messaging fast and reliable, and we don’t share your contacts lists with the other apps Facebook offers.

Groups remain private: We use group membership to deliver messages and to protect our service from spam and abuse. We don’t share this data with Facebook for ads purposes. Again, these private chats are end-to-end encrypted so we can’t see their content.

You can set your messages to disappear: For additional privacy, you can choose to set your messages to disappear from chats after you send them.

You can download your data: You can download and see what information we have on your account right from within the app.

[killramos]

WhatsApp was gross before the recent bs. I only ever used it for communication on school projects and it got deleted shrilly after graduating.

iMessage all the way. Poor friends are overrated.

[bjstare]

Mostly imessage. whatsapp for a group chat with some OG high school friends, and occasionally for work depending on what team I'm working with.

No plans to change.

[ExtraSlow]

I have downloaded signal, but still have some groups on whatapp. probably run both, plus wechat, and the new android group messaging, which works pretty similar to imessage, but only for some android users. so, not really, lol.

[mr2mike]

I have downloaded signal, but still have some groups on whatapp. probably run both, plus wechat, and the new android group messaging, which works pretty similar to imessage, but only for some android users. so, not really, lol.

Your digital DNA is spread across the world like a rabid teenaged guy.


Funny that whatsapp has halted the new update.
For sure Zuckerberg is selling your data off and running algos on your chats.
Friend mentioned co-op liquor store in a chat and then I got ads for it. So you tell me.

[sabad66]

Whatsapp can't read chats as they are E2E encrypted. Until someone proves they aren't, i will give them the benefit of the doubt and believe it.

Personally i'm still fine with whatsapp even after these privacy policy changes, but i have signal too in case people start migrating there.

The funny thing is Signal's been down almost all day, likely due to server overload. At some point Signal will need to monetize to keep their servers running, so its only a matter of time before they either sell ads or make it a paid service... i can't see how they would operate otherwise.

[AndyL]

i'm going back to icq :)

[jwslam]

i'm going back to icq :)
:poosie: A/S/L?

[rage2]

i'm going back to icq :)
96848
I ain’t going back with a noob ‘21 UIN.

[Thaco]

i still remember my icq from back in the day 9787801 (i think)

But it got hacked and i lost it years ago.

[firebane]

Most of the old school ICQ accounts got nuked years and years ago.

And not sure why people need all sorts of messaging aps... Guess maybe I'm not social enough... I basically use hangouts and text messages.

[killramos]

You guys are old

[ExtraSlow]

I had ICQ in 1996 or something. Chatted up all the lizaydies.

Not sure why more people aren't voting for Wechat. Has 1 billion members, or so I've heard. And it's users literally never complain.

[Darkane]

Whatsapp can't read chats as they are E2E encrypted. Until someone proves they aren't, i will give them the benefit of the doubt and believe it.

Personally i'm still fine with whatsapp even after these privacy policy changes, but i have signal too in case people start migrating there.

The funny thing is Signal's been down almost all day, likely due to server overload. At some point Signal will need to monetize to keep their servers running, so its only a matter of time before they either sell ads or make it a paid service... i can't see how they would operate otherwise.

WhatsApp is corrupted. They’re definitely stealing info and running algorithms.

The coop liquor store example is exactly what happens. It’s been happening my main WhatsApp group for about a year now.

Facebook has been selling our info this whole time.

Goldfish cracker ads pop up now because goldfish was mentioned for a kids lunch the other day. You tell me.

[ExtraSlow]

What's more probable? That Facebook has no plans to monetize the data in WhatsApp messages, or that they do?

[killramos]

I have faith that WhatsApp is EtoE encrypted.

End to End from you to Facebook. And end to end from Facebook to who you are texting. They wouldn’t want all that data going to a competitor accidentally lol

:rofl:

I mean seriously. It’s a free app, how else do they monetize the users? Facebook bought it for $20 billion. You think they did that out of charity?

[sabad66]

Everyone has a personal anecdote like the coop liquor or goldfish crackers example, but they are likely coincidences. I think it would have come out a long time ago if they were lying about it, and the consequences are massive if they did.

I’m totally open to changing my mind if there is real proof otherwise but until I see more than anecdotes I still give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think googe is a security expert. Do you have an opinion on this? Do you think WhatsApp is lying about e2e encryption?

[revelations]

"We can’t see your private messages or hear your calls, and neither can Facebook: Neither WhatsApp nor Facebook can read your messages or hear your calls with your friends, family, and co-workers on WhatsApp. Whatever you share, it stays between you. That’s because your personal messages are protected by end-to-end encryption. We will never weaken this security and we clearly label each chat so you know our commitment."

They specifically avoid mentioning that 3rd parties dont have this access.

IE. anything you type on your phone, specifically while using the WA app, can/will be sent to a 3rd party, making your side of the encryption irrelevant.

Also, no doubt the encryption has been compromised at some levels - but thats more on the national security level of interest.

[mr2mike]

What's more probable? That Facebook has no plans to monetize the data in WhatsApp messages, or that they do?

I'm certain Zuckerberg is operating in a very grey area. Even when people encroach on his personal data collection datasheets, he sues them.

[ExtraSlow]

Also, I never would have gone away from BBM except they shut it down for android. Frowny Face.

[Darkane]

Everyone has a personal anecdote like the coop liquor or goldfish crackers example, but they are likely coincidences. I think it would have come out a long time ago if they were lying about it, and the consequences are massive if they did.

I’m totally open to changing my mind if there is real proof otherwise but until I see more than anecdotes I still give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think googe is a security expert. Do you have an opinion on this? Do you think WhatsApp is lying about e2e encryption?

It happens a lot. Another very recent example is an MMO specific mouse my buddy posted. I now get ads for MMO mouse. I don’t want one!

If you think it coincidence, I have some ice to sell you.

[ExtraSlow]

Another beyond member just sent me some whatsapp messages regarding a product he has never purchased and has no interest in. No we wait for the zuk to send in the adverts.

[beecue]

There's no point unless you get rid of FB, Messenger, IG and whatsapp together. Those other apps are tracking you way more already. I downloaded signal though in case more people switch over.

[googe]

Short answer, no, they aren’t lying. But, they have been trying to find ways to weaken it in order to monetize that data though. The WhatsApp founder quit facebook in protest over this and left about a billion dollars on the table, when all he had to do is STFU and wait another year or something. He basically said he wouldn’t do it, $3B that was already vested was enough, they can keep the $1B. So that’s a bit concerning. But as far as weakening it, I don’t think they have done anything yet but I haven’t looked at it in a few years. If they make a strong claim, you can usually take it at face value for the most part. If they flat out lie, the FTC and many lawyers would jump at the chance to sue them.

Funny enough, the founder of WhatsApp worked with the founder of Signal to implement the same protocol. Under the hood, WhatsApp was changed to do the same thing as Signal for the most part. They were both huge privacy nuts and felt very strongly about this. Like, I feel strongly about encryption and privacy, but I’m pretty sure I’d drop everything and take the $1B if offered, haha.

Signal is a non-profit run by a legit security researcher who has deep roots in the hacker scene. Like old school hackers, before ransomware was a thing and it was more about getting free phone calls or exploring, not the new criminal enterprise kind. I don’t agree with his anarchist politics on a lot of things, but I’d trust anything with his name on it, both ethically and technically. They know next to nothing about their users, not even who is in your contact list. They have had warrants that demand people’s Signal contacts and he has nothing to show them. So, I prefer Signal just because I don’t even have to wonder about it.

The author of Signal even wrote a blog post attesting to WhatsApp’s security back in 2017.

https://signal.org/blog/there-is-no-whatsapp-backdoor/

[killramos]

This really isn’t complicated guys.

$20 Billion to buy WhatsApp.

Zuck gots to get paid.

[sabad66]

Nobody is saying they aren’t gonna monetize. There are other ways to do that aside from reading messages.

[killramos]

Like?

[googe]

Well here's the other thing. Google says that they don't read your email. They read your email. But they can truthfully say that they don't read your email. No, there isn't a dude sitting there following your conversations, but a machine analyzes your email and uses the contents to build a profile on you.

Facebook controls the app. The app gets the whole conversation and can do whatever it wants. The app could analyze conversations and build a profile on you, and send that profile back to facebook for example. It's still end to end encrypted, just with someone taking notes about what topics you like to discuss and reporting back. I don't think the app currently does this today or anything, but this would be an easy way to undermine expectations of privacy without lying.

[sabad66]

Like?

Bottom of this page under the business messaging section:
https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answering-your-questions-about-whatsapps-privacy-policy/

Pretty sure they charge businesses a fee for these services

[killramos]

$20 billion worth of business message hosting

[mr2mike]

There's no point unless you get rid of FB, Messenger, IG and whatsapp together. Those other apps are tracking you way more already. I downloaded signal though in case more people switch over.

For the record, I don't have FB, IG or Snap or Twitter.
Only whatsapp and Gmail. So Zuckerberg is definitely tracking me based on texts.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't have twitter, snap, IG at all. And I don't have FB, LI or banking on my phone. I also don't have my password manager on my phone.

I kinda assume that the day I installed Wechat on the phone, it got access to everything. Probably the safest assumption with most software.

[killramos]

Need a separate wechat phone, and don’t give it the wifi password.

[sabad66]

I concede they may do the ad targeting based on your messages in the future. My point is that there is no evidence of this now.

All that said, that doesn’t mean they aren’t using other data (like call logs, who you have active messages/group messages with, group message Subjects, and your contact list) to create profiles to target ads. In fact that could explain why people see targeted ads on things people talk about.

For example say you have a group message with 3 people titled “running”. Person A has been searching for new running shoes and he landed on New Balances. Person A says “hey guys I got these wicked new balance shoes”. You could now see ads for New Balance shoes not because it read that particular message, but instead because your friend just bought new shoes and there is a decent chance that their contacts who they interact with in a group titled “running” would also be interested in similar shoes.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Looks like they are delaying the changes due to the backlash:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/technology/whatsapp-privacy-changes-delayed.html

[Kjonus]

Maybe I'm with the ICQ crowd and my age. But why does one need a messaging app over just normal texting?

[killramos]

International texting, read receipts, speed and reliability, ability to communicate on other devices, sharing files and bigger videos/pictures, picture and video quality, confidentiality as sms has no privacy features.

[rage2]

don't forget group chats. SMS is still a shit show depending on what provider you and the people in the group are on.

[ExtraSlow]

group chats are brutal on SMS. That's the main thing for me.

[Masked Bandit]

What's whatsapp?

[Darell_n]

What's whatsapp?

Another Facebook data mining app.

[killramos]

group chats are brutal on SMS. That's the main thing for me.

I somehow ended up on a tranny Tuesday’s mailing list from someone I unfortunately can’t just block outright. iMessage would let me leave the mailing list...

[BavarianBeast]

Haven’t used a message app since I graduated from my masters program.

[killramos]

Haven’t used a message app since I graduated from my masters program.

Congrats on that btw!

[BavarianBeast]

Thanks killramos! Glad to put that behind haha

[schurchill39]

We use whats app for project based general chats with field personnel. Its been working great and if Facebook gives a shit about fluid volumes, when certain services show up, or the occasional picture of a flare stack then they can have that. I also have some clients that I chat with on it as you can use it with a web browser on your computer so its easier for the older folk than texting on their phone.

[Alterac]

We have to accept the fact, as long as we use services provided by Facebook, Google, Tencent, Microsoft, list goes on and on.. we are accepting that the actual product is our information.
Its pretty much impossible to prevent data collection now. (Even beyond's use of google analytics is promoting 3rd party data collection).

[killramos]

The difference is Beyond isn’t selectively bumping threads and showing us different lists of active topics to entice us to use the website more.

[ExtraSlow]

The difference is Beyond isn’t selectively bumping threads and showing us different lists of active topics to entice us to use the website more.

What do you think I DO HERE???

[blownz]

Also, I never would have gone away from BBM except they shut it down for android. Frowny Face.

I thought I was the only one!

[ExtraSlow]

If anyone wondering how I'm enjoying Wechat today:
96988
Anyone read that and tell me what it means?

[killramos]

My dictatorship censored communication speak is a bit rusty, but...

Something something. Praise the Party. Something something. Hail Mao?

[mr2mike]

Silly Gweilo! They're conditioning you to love the CCP.

[mr2mike]

What do you think I DO HERE???

Mind blown... ExtraSlow is just a bot creating Mega Threads.

[ExtraSlow]

I think something about financial results too.

- - - Updated - - -


Silly Gweilo! They're conditioning you to love the CCP.

Its working!