Before Basement Development

[jwslam]

Basement is currently unfinished.

Plan is to develop late this year summer or fall.

What are things I should get done before for upstairs before it gets difficult? Please chime in

My current list:

New electrical to powder room for bidet
Central Air conditioning
Garage 220V
Toe-kick pan for central vac added to kitchen

[ThePenIsMightier]

Run gas line for future gas stove even if you don't think you'll ever get one. Run gas line to deck even if you don't think you'll ever get a methane grill.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, run gas lines, and network cabining, to main floor rooms now before the basement is developed. Also, worth getting your radon tested beforehand too.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Once everything is done, spray foam all the things.

[nismodrifter]

Once everything is done, spray foam all the things.

Came to post this.

Leaving very satisfied.

Spray foam is a game changer for basements.

[benyl]

Came to post this.

Leaving very satisfied.

Spray foam is a game changer for basements.

What's the deal on VOCs from Spray foam. You see some very satisfied people and you see some horror stories where people are living in an RV on their front driveway.

[Tik-Tok]

If you don't have it already, run a few cat6 cables to somewhere on your main floor. Or at least one to your garage.

Now is also the time to have that orgy, or murder a hooker. You don't need to deep clean as all that DNA will get covered by subfloor and drywall.

[ThePenIsMightier]

What's the deal on VOCs from Spray foam. You see some very satisfied people and you see some horror stories where people are living in an RV on their front driveway.

"Those people" are actually one guy and you're hearing the loudest Karen while all the happy customers are quiet and warm.
The issue comes from extremely poor installation and it's so rare, even a scholarly spray foam installer virtually never fucks it up that bad.
New propellant/blowing agents have almost zero I think, but all you need to do is be out of the house for about 8hr as an old precaution.

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... or murder a hooker. You don't need to deep clean as all that DNA will get covered by subfloor and drywall.

Wait... What has everyone else been doing with their hookers!?? Paying them and letting them wander off??!!
I played a lot of Grand Theft Auto when I was far too young. I think I know how it works.

[killramos]

Consider some HVAC dampers with accessible panels. I wish I had more leeway to tweak things even seasonally.

Automate if you are a baller.

[nismodrifter]

Consider some HVAC dampers with accessible panels. I wish I had more leeway to tweak things even seasonally.

Automate if you are a baller.

How baller are we talking to have automated dampers?

Love these threads. Always good info to note for a future build.

re VOC, out of house for the day I think.

[prae]

$100 a damper. They're controlled in the exact same way that your cheap humidifer works. 24ac relay, normally-open or normally-closed. I need to install one for my fresh air intake so that it doesnt leak cold air into the house all the damn time.

[Asian_defender]

Water line for your fridge if you dont already have one

[ThePenIsMightier]

Water line for your fridge if you dont already have one

That's a good one. And, if you can make it braided stainless steel or something that's better than the recycled drinking straw material just waiting to flood your entire fucking house, then that'd be better.

[prae]

Points already made on low voltage wiring, gas lines and spray foam are all legit.


Consider whether you want any additional hose bibs or exterior electrical outlets. Now is the time.
How about your thermostat? How many conductors do you have going between your main/upper floor t-stats and your furnaces. You sure it's enough?
Water lines. Do you have water running every place in the upper stories that you could possibly want?
Smoke/Fire alarms. Wire for interconnect if you have not already.
Sound insulation and resilient channel in your floor joists. (more something to make sure you consider during your development)
Pot lights. I wish I'd added a few pot lights in the bedroom/office spaces I have in the basement. I just opted for a single octagon box in both bedrooms and wish I had 4x potlights for the office.


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That's a good one. And, if you can make it braided stainless steel or something that's better than the recycled drinking straw material just waiting to flood your entire fucking house, then that'd be better.

1/2" pex drop right to the back of the fridge is what I opt for. Then you can go to threaded stainless line.

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Running HVAC ducting to your garage (as is implied by "garage AC" in the OP) is likely a BIG no no. You don't want to have any tin bashed into a garage space in case a car is left running. Code violation I'd bet, you need a separate heating unit (i.e. ductless mini split).

Imagine a cold air return sucking in vapours and stuff from the garage. Yuck.

If it doesnt actually violate code, I still wouldn't do it for fear of some overzealous inspector fucking your sale up.

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Run a 40a circuit to your garage for electric vehicle charging.

[rage2]

What's the advantages of spray foam anyways? It seems like that it's just easier for installers.

I had it done in my basement, sold on the fact that it dampens noise (it doesn't) and is quite messy to get into wiring and other stuff for servicing.

[Cagare]

What's the advantages of spray foam anyways? It seems like that it's just easier for installers.

I had it done in my basement, sold on the fact that it dampens noise (it doesn't) and is quite messy to get into wiring and other stuff for servicing.

It's not as good at dampening noise compared to every other form of insulation. The primary advantage is that it is insulation and vapour barrier in one. It was a big deal in southern Ontario and would very much decrease the damp feeling in basements. It also seals into tight spaces a lot better due to expansion.

[jwslam]

Running HVAC ducting to your garage (as is implied by "garage AC" in the OP) is likely a BIG no no. You don't want to have any tin bashed into a garage space in case a car is left running. Code violation I'd bet, you need a separate heating unit (i.e. ductless mini split).

Imagine a cold air return sucking in vapours and stuff from the garage. Yuck.
Oops I meant Garage 220V... idk where garage A/C came from lol

[ThePenIsMightier]

rage2
The R-value of spray foam is also significantly better, so you get (iIRC) about 7 per inch which can give you an R20 basement with only 2x4 walls. And that's just in a lab type of testing - the reality is that because it fills everything so perfectly, the air ingress is essentially zero which leads to additional heat/cold retention that is not shown by the R-value on the packaging.
Agree, it's wiener pain to need to fish shit through that wall after, so folks should start a thread and get advice on what to do first.

[prae]

Spray foaming just rim joists is an interesting compromise- rim joist is just about impossible to effectively seal with vapour barrier and is (IMO) the source from where most basement (and heck even main floor) air intrusion happens.

I feel like spray foaming the whole wall if you're in there already makes total sense but I have had some smart people who actually run businesses doing this challenge me on that.

[Cagare]

The best way I have seen spray foam done in a basement is spraying it right on the foundation walls and then framing your walls on the inside of the spray foam after it is installed. This is of course you can afford to lose that square footage in your basement. It allows for a lot of flexibility of fishing wires through the space and not deal with insulation being in the way.

[ThePenIsMightier]

And before the SPRAY FOAM MEGA THREAD OF MEGA ALPHAS gets split from this basement reno thread, here is the order of spray foam contractors you should call:

1.) Ener-Spray
2.) Anyone else who does spray foam, at all, whose name isn't Midgaard.
3.) At least one more contractor from [2]
4.) A random 10-digit phone number.
5.) Corky from the television show, Life Goes On.
6.) A deceased cat.
Threeve.) Midgaard.

[sabad66]

If you don’t already have a water softener maybe consider adding one or roughing in. I wanted to add one at my house when I moved in, but after realizing I had to run bypasses for my outdoor bibs and having my water line almost opposite side of my utility room, it was a bigger job than I thought so didn’t end up doing it.

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Speaking of outdoor bibs, I always thought it would be useful to have a hot water bib outside. Should be a lot easier to do in an undeveloped basement

[roopi]

Speaking of outdoor bibs, I always thought it would be useful to have a hot water bib outside. Should be a lot easier to do in an undeveloped basement

I thought this would be useful as well but honestly I've only used it to fill my hot tub so it doesn't take as long to warm up. Other then that it's been useless for me. (Disclaimer: I don't have kids and if I did I would probably hose them off with hot water bib).

[killramos]

Rough in for irrigation comes to mind with this talk about bibs.

[sabad66]

Haha kids is exactly the reason. I’m too poor for a hot tub so filling up our kiddie pool sucks when I’m lugging big pots of hot water from the kitchen sink to warm it up. I think it would be good for cleaning too I.e pressure washing the deck

[ExtraSlow]

Hot water bib would be great. Good in spring for melting ice dams too. Washing the kids or a dawg, or even windows.

[G]

Pull hot into your garage. Washing our cars with warm water is a game changer for me.

[duaner]

Once everything is done, spray foam all the things.

Never, ever use spray foam. It is not only terrible environmentally, it will eventually dry out and pull away. Not to mention if there is a fire, it is about the worst thing you can have in your home.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq9M8EyGYBU

[jwslam]

Pull hot into your garage. Washing our cars with warm water is a game changer for me.
Where does that drain to? I don't have a garage drain :(
Garage hot water sounds great with a full out laundry sink w/ drain...

[ThePenIsMightier]

Never, ever use spray foam. It is not only terrible environmentally, it will eventually dry out and pull away. Not to mention if there is a fire, it is about the worst thing you can have in your home.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq9M8EyGYBU

It's flammable and that's why it doesn't meet building code unless it's covered by sheathing (like fire resistant drywall? Like people in houses have?) Where's the video of a car crash with no seatbelts and a couple jerry cans & propane cylinders in the front seats?


Edit.
And it must be environmentally friendly, because the NDP used your tax dollars to pay for mine! LoL. There's no dichotomy of values in environmentally responsible things. My dishwasher and clothes washer use hardly any water, so they're good. Their cycles run 2.5x longer, consuming more electricity and I'll need to throw out about 7 of them during my life because they are poorly made shit, but that's the price of progress.

[duaner]

It's flammable and that's why it doesn't meet building code unless it's covered by sheathing (like fire resistant drywall? Like people in houses have?) Where's the video of a car crash with no seatbelts and a couple jerry cans & propane cylinders in the front seats?

Your comment suggests that you either didn’t actually watch the video or you didn’t understand it. It also seems you don’t understand that fire resistant does not equal fireproof, nor that it takes heat to start fire, not flames. Drywall eventually burns and it is likely that even before it does, if it gets hot enough on the other side of it, fire can start.



Edit.
And it must be environmentally friendly, because the NDP used your tax dollars to pay for mine! LoL. There's no dichotomy of values in environmentally responsible things. My dishwasher and clothes washer use hardly any water, so they're good. Their cycles run 2.5x longer, consuming more electricity and I'll need to throw out about 7 of them during my life because they are poorly made shit, but that's the price of progress.

It isn’t progress when superior materials already exist.

https://foursevenfive.com/blog/foam-fails/

[ThePenIsMightier]

I did watch the video, that's how I'm able to comment on how silly a comparison it is because none of the walls have drywall. It's fear mongering and should come with its own Jump To Conclusions Mat.
When a house catches on fire, it burns down and usually the fire department can save half the damage on either neighbours' house because we're allowed to blanket them in stupid vinyl siding and cram the houses too close together. All you want is enough time to have a chance of getting out alive because the whole thing is going down to the foundation. I think my buddy's impact sockets melted in the Fort Mac fires.
You're right about flame retardant and fire proof and I'm perfectly familiar with the difference. I suppose my point is, that the studs and the foam and all that might as well be made out of acetylene because if you are still in that house by the time the fire gets to there, it's because you're dead.

The rest is just a comment on how no one seems to recognize the give & take that is inherent with environmental protection and spray foam is no different.
"Saves on heating & AC costs - therefore GOOD because carbon footprint."
"Oops... Propellants full of CFC's.... Now confused if good."

[prae]

It isn’t progress when superior materials already exist.


what materials are those? Genuinely curious.

[duaner]

I did watch the video, that's how I'm able to comment on how silly a comparison it is because none of the walls have drywall. It's fear mongering and should come with its own Jump To Conclusions Mat.
When a house catches on fire, it burns down and usually the fire department can save half the damage on either neighbours' house because we're allowed to blanket them in stupid vinyl siding and cram the houses too close together. All you want is enough time to have a chance of getting out alive because the whole thing is going down to the foundation. I think my buddy's impact sockets melted in the Fort Mac fires.
You're right about flame retardant and fire proof and I'm perfectly familiar with the difference. I suppose my point is, that the studs and the foam and all that might as well be made out of acetylene because if you are still in that house by the time the fire gets to there, it's because you're dead.

The rest is just a comment on how no one seems to recognize the give & take that is inherent with environmental protection and spray foam is no different.
"Saves on heating & AC costs - therefore GOOD because carbon footprint."
"Oops... Propellants full of CFC's.... Now confused if good."

And fires never start in the walls?

Did you read the link I provided about foam? It’s toxic, it off-gasses, it doesn’t breakdown, and it eventually dries out and pulls away from studs, obviously lowering the R value and removing the vapour barrier. I get it that there is almost always a trade-off with environmental stuff, but i the long run, spray foam is not good.

[duaner]

what materials are those? Genuinely curious.

Cellulose, rock wool (not great environmentally on the fabrication side), wool, wood fibre. I would use fibreglass before ever using spray foam. Wool is $$$ but is also natural and is naturally fire retardant.

[suntan]

Cellulose, rock wool (not great environmentally on the fabrication side), wool, wood fibre. I would use fibreglass before ever using spray foam. Wool is $$$ but is also natural and is naturally fire retardant.

Metallurgical coal will be burned until the end of civilization.

You might want to replace all the windows if they're builder's originals.

[71/454]

And fires never start in the walls?

Did you read the link I provided about foam? It’s toxic, it off-gasses, it doesn’t breakdown, and it eventually dries out and pulls away from studs, obviously lowering the R value and removing the vapour barrier. I get it that there is almost always a trade-off with environmental stuff, but i the long run, spray foam is not good.

I’ve seen a few times where a wall is opened up a few years after spray foam and due to shrinkage or shifting the foam has large cracks and gaps. The gaps are usually big enough that in my opinion you would have been better with batt insulation

[ExtraSlow]

Here's a legit one. Wherever your breaker panel is, make sure you have enough room for a rack or networking equipment RIGHT THERE. Have 2x 120v circuits on the wall there too. We ended up with a skinny closet there, and thought we were putting a media rack elsewhere. That has been a small but persistent annoyance over the years. A rack there would be better.