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View Full Version : 94 Octane Gas - Where?



Sky
03-06-2021, 12:45 PM
So the Husky in Dalhousie no longer has 94(not sure if permanent), where are you guys getting it in Calgary? Sucks because Dalhousie is so handy for me. Also curious if there’s 93 or 92 out there? Thanks guys.

eglove
03-06-2021, 12:48 PM
G&b fuel in hawkwood, any petrocan

Twin_Cam_Turbo
03-06-2021, 01:03 PM
G&B, Petro and Chevron. No more Husky.

2Legit2Quit
03-06-2021, 01:18 PM
I go to Chevron for 94, ethanol free

Sky
03-06-2021, 01:25 PM
Cool. Thanks! Would you say Chevron is the best of the 3?

revelations
03-06-2021, 01:36 PM
I think Rage mentioned this a few years ago - if your car is NA, and calls for 93 from the factory (or tune) - apparently you can get away with 91 at our altitude.

Sentry
03-06-2021, 01:52 PM
Yeah if your car is NA you can go down a peg here. And as mentioned if you're in the deep NW then G&B hawkwood has good 94.

zipdoa
03-06-2021, 02:05 PM
+1 for Chevron - ethanol free and dedicated nozzle for 94.

Darkane
03-06-2021, 02:15 PM
+1 for Chevron - ethanol free and dedicated nozzle for 94.

Really??

Ethanol free?

bspot
03-06-2021, 02:26 PM
My car logged like shit on Chevron 94 compared to Husky 94. This sucks.

rage2
03-06-2021, 03:02 PM
My car logged like shit on Chevron 94 compared to Husky 94. This sucks.
If you dig through my old posts, I had the same problems with Chevron 94. Maybe it's better if you could tune for it, but back then I could only get it in BC, no tuning on road trips. Car drove and pinged like shit on it everywhere. Part throttle, WOT, just shit.

That said I was tuned to the edge of Husky 94 so def very sensitive to fuel.

bspot
03-06-2021, 03:40 PM
Any thoughts on my best bet to try next? I suspect the ethanol helped with the heat issues of a supercharger. I’ve logged Shell 91 as well and it was not much different from Chevron 94.

Sky
03-06-2021, 03:56 PM
Might just have to try all of them and see some logs. So all husky getting rid of 94? Oh well, it worked great and hopefully one of these will be as good as husky.

Twin_Cam_Turbo
03-06-2021, 04:09 PM
I had a car that ran Petro 94 and was also very unhappy on Chevron 94.

rage2
03-06-2021, 04:28 PM
In my later days of tuning I pretty much just use shell 91. It’s got a high tolerance for knock, just a tad below husky 94. I’d say its lowballed rated at 91. The bonus is fuel economy because no ethanol. The peak power between shell 91 and husky 94 was negligible. This is assuming things haven’t changed. Tuning for husky 94 was great in the city, but made road trips unbearable especially going to BC because no other fuel ran good on a 94 husky tune. Shell is just available everywhere.

My HPF m3 where the tune is locked down only ran on shell 91. Knocked on everything else, even part throttle. Terrible.

bspot
03-06-2021, 09:34 PM
I don’t know if it’s because of heat issues, but I knock on Shell 91 and have zero knock on Husky 94.

revelations
03-06-2021, 10:39 PM
I don’t know if it’s because of heat issues, but I knock on Shell 91 and have zero knock on Husky 94.

boost? (turbo or SC)

bspot
03-06-2021, 11:08 PM
boost? (turbo or SC)

SC with a pulley. So lots of heat to go around.

finboy
03-07-2021, 08:55 AM
Likely going to re-tune for shell this year, unsure if this will push petro to drop 94

M.alex
03-07-2021, 10:01 PM
I think Rage mentioned this a few years ago - if your car is NA, and calls for 93 from the factory (or tune) - apparently you can get away with 91 at our altitude.

I buy that - my Viper was tuned for 93 but runs perfectly well (no knocking, pulled timing, etc.) on Shell 91.

Same story with my 2014 GT500 - all the basic mods (tb, pulley, longtubes, off-road H, cai, etc.) and a canned tune for 93 but runs perfectly well on Shell 91.

Orbie
03-08-2021, 11:57 AM
So anyone specifically tuned on Husky 94, what are you running or going to be running? I have tried on Shell 91 and it runs poorly on it, wondering if the PetroCan 94 comparable to Husky since it has ethanol, or retune?

arcticcat522
03-08-2021, 01:25 PM
I don’t know if it’s because of heat issues, but I knock on Shell 91 and have zero knock on Husky 94.
Same with me on my 135i. It wasn't crazy amount of knock, but still there. I'll need to get the tune updated for Shell 91 it looks like. FML

SpdDmn268
03-08-2021, 02:09 PM
My tuner has tested and doesn't recommend Petro94.. Their results for Chevron weren't consistent, so I guess I'll stick with Shell91.
Already flashed the 91oct OTS map on my winter beater :'( And just go E85 for the summer car?

Mitsu3000gt
03-08-2021, 02:36 PM
The theory I have read is that (generally speaking on 'stock' vehicles) higher octane with a bit of Ethanol (eg. Husky 94) is usually better than lower octane with no ethanol (eg. Shell 91) because the reduced knock from the higher octane value allows for more performance than you are losing due to the less efficient combustion from the ethanol. Is that true or is that just a common misconception?

ThePenIsMightier
03-08-2021, 02:54 PM
The theory I have read is that (generally speaking on 'stock' vehicles) higher octane with a bit of Ethanol (eg. Husky 94) is usually better than lower octane with no ethanol (eg. Shell 91) because the reduced knock from the higher octane value allows for more performance than you are losing due to the less efficient combustion from the ethanol. Is that true or is that just a common misconception?

If you read below, it seems like a few people are reporting Shell 91 gave them less knocking than any alleged 94, ethanol, or not.

*I'd just like to add that while V-Power is ethanol free in this market, that's not a guarantee elsewhere. The Scotford refinery doesn't supply fuel to all stations in all of Western Canada.

killramos
03-08-2021, 03:14 PM
You would be pretty hard pressed to find a stock vehicle that would actually knock on Shell 91 at Calgary’s altitude.

rage2
03-08-2021, 03:24 PM
The theory I have read is that (generally speaking on 'stock' vehicles) higher octane with a bit of Ethanol (eg. Husky 94) is usually better than lower octane with no ethanol (eg. Shell 91) because the reduced knock from the higher octane value allows for more performance than you are losing due to the less efficient combustion from the ethanol. Is that true or is that just a common misconception?
Generally, yes. There are other variables too. Ethanol is something like 40% less energy content than straight gasoline, so there's a bit of a power loss there, so 4% in a E10 10% ethanol fuel. Then there's the tuning, the stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is very different than gasoline, 14.7:1 for gas and 9:1 for ethanol IIRC so your stoich shifts richer as you have more ethanol, so you need to tune for that to get optimal power. The reason why ethanol blended fuels are better for FI applications is cooling, so in effect it's almost higher knock resistance thx to cooling the mixture than the 94 rating suggests. That's what made Husky 94 so damn good for FI applications if you're tuning specifically for it. Bad for fuel economy but awesome for outright power. It's a terrible fuel for NA cars (at our elevation), or stock tuned cars.

Shell 91 is good in a different way because I genuinely felt that it's higher than it's rating compared to other 91's I've tested back then. I could run higher boost, more aggressive timing than anything else. It's been over a decade since I've been in the game, so things might've changed since then.

Mitsu3000gt
03-08-2021, 03:52 PM
Generally, yes. There are other variables too. Ethanol is something like 40% less energy content than straight gasoline, so there's a bit of a power loss there, so 4% in a E10 10% ethanol fuel. Then there's the tuning, the stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is very different than gasoline, 14.7:1 for gas and 9:1 for ethanol IIRC so your stoich shifts richer as you have more ethanol, so you need to tune for that to get optimal power. The reason why ethanol blended fuels are better for FI applications is cooling, so in effect it's almost higher knock resistance thx to cooling the mixture than the 94 rating suggests. That's what made Husky 94 so damn good for FI applications if you're tuning specifically for it. Bad for fuel economy but awesome for outright power. It's a terrible fuel for NA cars (at our elevation), or stock tuned cars.

Shell 91 is good in a different way because I genuinely felt that it's higher than it's rating compared to other 91's I've tested back then. I could run higher boost, more aggressive timing than anything else. It's been over a decade since I've been in the game, so things might've changed since then.

Thanks, that makes sense. Sounds like 94 is still the way to go for FI cars unless you have the benefit of testing multiple tunes.

Orbie
03-08-2021, 03:57 PM
My tuner has tested and doesn't recommend Petro94.. Their results for Chevron weren't consistent, so I guess I'll stick with Shell91.
Already flashed the 91oct OTS map on my winter beater :'( And just go E85 for the summer car?

Did your tuner specifically say why they did not recommend Petro94?

Xamim
03-08-2021, 04:05 PM
Is Husky 94 completely gone? My summer car is tuned for it so I haven't been to a Husky since last year. I know that some stations stopped carrying it but other stations still had it, or at least did when I filled up at those locations last fall (Deer Ridge and Macleod & 42nd Ave).

SpdDmn268
03-08-2021, 04:45 PM
Did your tuner specifically say why they did not recommend Petro94?

Lots of knock (not my car/tune specifically, across all his tunes and testing)
Weird that Petro94 in Ontario is the go-to.


Xamim
Is Husky 94 completely gone? My summer car is tuned for it so I haven't been to a Husky since last year. I know that some stations stopped carrying it but other stations still had it, or at least did when I filled up at those locations last fall (Deer Ridge and Macleod & 42nd Ave).

Deer Ridge had switched when I was there Saturday :(

Xamim
03-08-2021, 06:45 PM
Lots of knock (not my car/tune specifically, across all his tunes and testing)
Weird that Petro94 in Ontario is the go-to.



Deer Ridge had switched when I was there Saturday :(

Well then... Guess I'll have to get in touch with Sunny and see what he recommends now.

ExtraSlow
03-08-2021, 08:47 PM
Thread weirdness test.

rage2
03-08-2021, 08:49 PM
Fixed it.

bspot
03-08-2021, 11:57 PM
Has anyone logged Mohawk 91 yet?

GTS Jeff
03-09-2021, 10:25 AM
I've switched to Shell 91 and set the octane on my EPL adjustable tune down to 91. 3.24 pulley ratio. Car still runs well but I haven't logged yet. One thing I did notice is a massive gain in fuel economy - I averaged 7.4L/100km highway driving this weekend.

Xamim
03-09-2021, 02:14 PM
Husky decided to realign our fuel grade slate with the rest of the market and what is available from the refineries that supply our fuel. We apologize for the inconvenience but unfortunately, octane 94 will no longer be available at Husky stations.

Got this as a reply from Husky customer service.

ThePenIsMightier
03-09-2021, 02:32 PM
Got this as a reply from Husky customer service.

Thanks for digging that up.
I can't wait to see my friend lose her mind this summer trying to fill her Huracan! RoFL!!
You know how even smart people do stupid things? This is one of those things. Crazy smart. Chemical engineer with career in hydrocarbons processing. Has forgotten more about combustion than most will ever learn.
Vehemently insists on Husky-94 for Lambo...

Oh gawd, I'm doing the pee-pee dance thinking about how to tell her!!
I am so excite!!

faiz999
03-09-2021, 02:34 PM
~~

killramos
03-09-2021, 02:35 PM
Thanks for digging that up.
I can't wait to see my friend lose her mind this summer trying to fill her Huracan! RoFL!!
You know how even smart people do stupid things? This is one of those things. Crazy smart. Chemical engineer with career in hydrocarbons processing. Has forgotten more about combustion than most will ever learn.
Vehemently insists on Husky-94 for Lambo...

Oh gawd, I'm doing the pee-pee dance thinking about how to tell her!!
I am so excite!!

You can buy her a barrel of ethanol for Christmas.

ThePenIsMightier
03-09-2021, 03:16 PM
You can buy her a barrel of ethanol for Christmas.

Good plan. Paging HiTempGuy!!!
Meh, on second thought - not worth it.

Mitsu3000gt
03-09-2021, 04:44 PM
So what is the next best high octane / ethane boosted fuel if Husky is gone? Sounds like Chevron is no good.

zipdoa
03-12-2021, 04:51 PM
So what is the next best high octane / ethane boosted fuel if Husky is gone? Sounds like Chevron is no good.

Old Chevron 94 had ethanol, and was only available in BC.

New Chevron 94 has no ethanol, and has a dedicated pump/nozzle. I've been running it in a twin turbo v6 and a high revving v8, no issues. I'll have logs soon of it running on the s4, but I imagine those who had a bad experience are referring to the old product.

Mitsu3000gt
03-12-2021, 05:02 PM
Old Chevron 94 had ethanol, and was only available in BC.

New Chevron 94 has no ethanol, and has a dedicated pump/nozzle. I've been running it in a twin turbo v6 and a high revving v8, no issues. I'll have logs soon of it running on the s4, but I imagine those who had a bad experience are referring to the old product.

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I thought it was quite advantageous though to have some ethanol through for turbo cars? Maybe only if you're having heat issues?

sabad66
03-12-2021, 05:08 PM
If you read below, it seems like a few people are reporting Shell 91 gave them less knocking than any alleged 94, ethanol, or not.

*I'd just like to add that while V-Power is ethanol free in this market, that's not a guarantee elsewhere. The Scotford refinery doesn't supply fuel to all stations in all of Western Canada.

It's ethanol-free across Canada. That may or may not change in the future, but for now it's accurate.
https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists/my-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline.html

ThePenIsMightier
03-12-2021, 06:18 PM
It's ethanol-free across Canada. That may or may not change in the future, but for now it's accurate.
https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists/my-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline.html

Thanks. This is giving me Deja Vu as someone may have corrected me on this previously. The confusing thing is that many pumps on the west coast for example, still have stickers saying "may contain ___" so perhaps they are just old but it's confusing.
Plus, I find it hard to believe in the West coast because (I believe) they're getting shit piles of their fuel from BP Cherry Point (in 'Murica) and it's not like Shell can put an additive in to delete ethanol. We should be able to believe them, though...

Mitsu3000gt
03-12-2021, 09:23 PM
Thanks. This is giving me Deja Vu as someone may have corrected me on this previously. The confusing thing is that many pumps on the west coast for example, still have stickers saying "may contain ___" so perhaps they are just old but it's confusing.
Plus, I find it hard to believe in the West coast because (I believe) they're getting shit piles of their fuel from BP Cherry Point (in 'Murica) and it's not like Shell can put an additive in to delete ethanol. We should be able to believe them, though...

The stickers are the only thing I have ever gone by with Shell as well. I guess it's also an easy thing that could fall off or someone could just forget to put it on the pump, so it's good to know that it should be Canada-wide.

killramos
03-12-2021, 09:46 PM
Fed the Car some 94 today to see how it likes it, my N55 really liked Shell 91 but going to see how this car likes the ethanol ( considering BMW thought the extra cooling was worth the water injection on the GTS I wonder if the S55 will like it).

Gonna have to figure out the Price delta between Shell and Petro versus the fuel economy benefit. Fuck was the Petro expensive though, thought I was in Vancouver for a minute there for 94. I’d almost bet it is more expansive AND worse mileage fuel.

bspot
03-13-2021, 02:15 PM
Old Chevron 94 had ethanol, and was only available in BC.

New Chevron 94 has no ethanol, and has a dedicated pump/nozzle. I've been running it in a twin turbo v6 and a high revving v8, no issues. I'll have logs soon of it running on the s4, but I imagine those who had a bad experience are referring to the old product.

I logged Chevron from the McKnight location last summer. I assume this was the “new” stuff?

Sky
03-13-2021, 07:13 PM
Trying Chevron Mcknight 94. As mentioned, no ethanol and dedicated pump. Nice. So far so good. Car is happy and running great. From quick logs it seems to be slightly better than Husky 94. Running on a V6 twin turbo. You guys should try it out and let us what you think.

Mitsu3000gt
03-15-2021, 01:38 PM
I went to the Husky on Bow Trail hoping to get some remaining 94 but they had some crappy home-made sign taped to the pump saying it was 91 :cry: Does every Chevron station have 94 or just some? I don't think I've ever filled up there in my life.

bspot
03-20-2021, 12:31 PM
I went to G&B in Hawkwood last night. I think they supplied Husky, and they still have 94. I wonder for how long if Husky isn’t buying it from them anymore.

Zhariak
03-21-2021, 05:18 AM
I went to the Husky on Bow Trail hoping to get some remaining 94 but they had some crappy home-made sign taped to the pump saying it was 91 :cry: Does every Chevron station have 94 or just some? I don't think I've ever filled up there in my life.

I'm wondering if there's a shortage... I went to the new Chevon off 114th ave in the SE, after pre-paying at pump using CC, 94 would just click and not let me fill up. I think I squeezed 2 bucks out of the nozzle. I'm wondering if the tanks were empty...

zipdoa
03-21-2021, 08:23 PM
Thanks, I'll give it a try. I thought it was quite advantageous though to have some ethanol through for turbo cars? Maybe only if you're having heat issues?

Well, the logic was that Husky 94 was a minimum of 94 octane. Husky didn't have a consistent ratio of ethanol-to-gasoline (supposed to be about 10%, or E10), so depending on the total ethanol content the AKI could actually be higher.

I think Rage2 or someone has explained this better than I will but:

Ethanol - Burns cooler and has higher knock resistance than gasoline, but much lower energy content. The higher knock resistance means you can get aggressive and advance your ignition timing significantly more than with straight gasoline, which in turbo cars means you can make ridiculous torque.

IE: B5 S4 on E85 and stock turbos (BW K03's) makes 500+ ft/lbs tq, and instant spool. Makes for a ridiculously responsive daily driver.

Mitsu3000gt
03-22-2021, 11:59 AM
I'm wondering if there's a shortage... I went to the new Chevon off 114th ave in the SE, after pre-paying at pump using CC, 94 would just click and not let me fill up. I think I squeezed 2 bucks out of the nozzle. I'm wondering if the tanks were empty...

Are you sure it wasn't a weird angle on the nozzle or something triggering the stop way too early? I've had that happen to me before (clicked off almost immediately) and I either had to reposition the nozzle in the tank to get it to flow properly, or set to flow to about half. Or maybe they are just using up the last of their stock and it was in fact empty.



Well, the logic was that Husky 94 was a minimum of 94 octane. Husky didn't have a consistent ratio of ethanol-to-gasoline (supposed to be about 10%, or E10), so depending on the total ethanol content the AKI could actually be higher.

I think Rage2 or someone has explained this better than I will but:

Ethanol - Burns cooler and has higher knock resistance than gasoline, but much lower energy content. The higher knock resistance means you can get aggressive and advance your ignition timing significantly more than with straight gasoline, which in turbo cars means you can make ridiculous torque.

IE: B5 S4 on E85 and stock turbos (BW K03's) makes 500+ ft/lbs tq, and instant spool. Makes for a ridiculously responsive daily driver.

Yeah my understanding was even on stock cars with a smart enough ECU, the better knock resistance provided by higher octane allowed for more power than a lower octane with zero ethanol, but fuel economy would be worse. I imagine it makes a bigger difference on tuned cars though like in your B5 S4 example.

Xamim
07-01-2021, 09:43 AM
Bump.

This guy out of Vancouver compared some fuels. Long video, but results are towards the end. Some of the timing being pulled is pretty high, even on Shell 91.

This was without tuning, just straight runs on the dyno. Surprising how close Chevron 91 and Chevron 94 were. Also, look like you shouldn't run Costco fuel, less power and lots of timing correction.

SoCsF5dRE0U

Mitsu3000gt
07-01-2021, 03:02 PM
I just switched to Shell 91, it was way too annoying looking for 94 and it seems like Shell 91 is still one of the best options regardless.

zipdoa
07-02-2021, 07:16 PM
Bump.

This guy out of Vancouver compared some fuels. Long video, but results are towards the end. Some of the timing being pulled is pretty high, even on Shell 91.

This was without tuning, just straight runs on the dyno. Surprising how close Chevron 91 and Chevron 94 were. Also, look like you shouldn't run Costco fuel, less power and lots of timing correction.



Bless this guys heart for doing this. HOWEVER:

Is it accurate to assess the quality and potential of a fuel without tuning for that fuel? I understand that the ECU is adapting, but it only has so much room for change. IE: F10 M5, if you add E85, the ECU won't calibrate for the AKI and makes less power than 91 as a result. You'd have to tune the vehicle to take advantage.

Is it valid to consider that having a custom tune to compare Petro 94 vs Chevron 94 and squeezing the maximum gains from each fuel would be a more accurate assessment?

Also - controlled variables: IAT, leftover fuel, Oil temp, etc can all influence the dyno readout. I didn't see that these metrics were controlled in this test. The first run will have the best #'s and power will diminish each time the car is run. For sure fuel will play a role in the youtube test, but I'm still not convinced that Chevron 92 would outperform Chevron 94 on custom tunes.

JDMMAN
07-03-2021, 09:58 AM
You're definitely correct here. Unless the car vehicle had "rested" between the changes of fuel to remove the bias for additional power when the engine/components were cooler, this "test" is flawed. The better test would be to see what makes the most power after being tuned for the specific fuel by the same tuner on the same vehicle to remove program bias. Had they ran the same test but with the fuels in the reverse order, the results would have likely been quite different.


Bless this guys heart for doing this. HOWEVER:

Is it accurate to assess the quality and potential of a fuel without tuning for that fuel? I understand that the ECU is adapting, but it only has so much room for change. IE: F10 M5, if you add E85, the ECU won't calibrate for the AKI and makes less power than 91 as a result. You'd have to tune the vehicle to take advantage.

Is it valid to consider that having a custom tune to compare Petro 94 vs Chevron 94 and squeezing the maximum gains from each fuel would be a more accurate assessment?

Also - controlled variables: IAT, leftover fuel, Oil temp, etc can all influence the dyno readout. I didn't see that these metrics were controlled in this test. The first run will have the best #'s and power will diminish each time the car is run. For sure fuel will play a role in the youtube test, but I'm still not convinced that Chevron 92 would outperform Chevron 94 on custom tunes.

90_Shelby
07-03-2021, 10:41 AM
If you have Motor Trend on Demand, Engine Masters did a great dyno test with an NA engine, pump gas, high octane pump gas, race fuel and E85 if I recall correctly. They tuned for each fuel as well. Interesting results!

Darkane
07-03-2021, 09:28 PM
If you have Motor Trend on Demand, Engine Masters did a great dyno test with an NA engine, pump gas, high octane pump gas, race fuel and E85 if I recall correctly. They tuned for each fuel as well. Interesting results!

That is such a great show.

sabad66
08-18-2021, 02:33 PM
Petro-Canada in mayland heights currently out of regular. They are offering ultra 94 for the same price as regular (133.9)

bart
09-16-2021, 01:21 PM
just add toluene

i know if you a 5L to 50L of 94 you will end up with ~97 haha

Orbie
06-25-2022, 09:16 PM
I don't get gas very frequently anymore but last month filled up Shell 91 as usual and they had the standard 87/89/91 offerings. Just filled up again and noticed they dropped the 89 and all they offer are 87 and V-Power in 91 and 93 now. Has anyone used their 93 Octane? wondering how it holds up to the 94 offerings around the city.

ThePenIsMightier
06-25-2022, 09:33 PM
I don't get gas very frequently anymore but last month filled up Shell 91 as usual and they had the standard 87/89/91 offerings. Just filled up again and noticed they dropped the 89 and all they offer are 87 and V-Power in 91 and 93 now. Has anyone used their 93 Octane? wondering how it holds up to the 94 offerings around the city.

No, but tell me which station had the 93? Many have had 3-quarter chubbies looking for it.

Xamim
06-25-2022, 11:26 PM
The shell at Blackfoot and 42nd Ave has 93.

Twin_Cam_Turbo
06-26-2022, 10:39 AM
I’m a cheap cunt so I’ve mostly been putting Costco 91 in my FRS but last tank I got Chevron 94 for $1.799 and my car had noticeably better economy that tank and felt slightly smoother at the top end on track, enough for me to ditch Costco fuel on that car.

Orbie
06-26-2022, 01:17 PM
No, but tell me which station had the 93? Many have had 3-quarter chubbies looking for it.

This is the station on Symons Valley road by Kincora and the Creekside mall. I was pretty pumped about seeing it as well, although its hyper expensive at $2.20/L. I filled my car with it so I'll see how it does in the next few weeks. But if anyone else gets a chance to try share your findings!