GTC4Lusso

[AltAcc]

Hi all,

So I'm going to be in the market for my first exotic/supercar soon (hopefully within 2-3 months, unless my circumstances change unexpectedly). I've had my eyes set on the GTC4Lusso for quite some time now. Why, do you ask? Well, it fits the following criteria quite well:

1) Screaming NA V12, especially once it's fitted with the Novitec exhaust :drool:
2) 4 seats
3) AWD (mostly)
4) Most practical exotic.. I think?

I was hoping some of you would be able to answer some of my questions, and possibly provide some insight as well. Here are some of the questions I've come up with so far:

- Who should I approach to inquire about the car? To be more specific, should I go to the dealership, or should I contact a private dealer such as Kulu, Pfaff, etc?
- Have you or anyone you know ever owned a Ferrari? What has your/their experience been like?
- Any known issues? I've been over to the Ferrari boards, and I've seen people bring up two major issues: the PTU, and the lift pump. Anything else I should be aware of?
- Any other cars I should be considering that fit the criteria above?
- Can anyone recommend a trustworthy, honest indie shop/mechanic? My plan is to own this car for as long as possible (with and without warranty). It will mostly be a weekend car.
- Anything specific I should check for during pre and post purchase?

Looking forward to your responses, thanks!

[ThePenIsMightier]

You're most likely going to the dealer and I assume you're not buying new.
I'm not sure I would step into that expensive of a Ferrari for a first one. Why not consider an FF? What's your budget?

[AltAcc]

You're most likely going to the dealer and I assume you're not buying new.
I'm not sure I would step into that expensive of a Ferrari for a first one. Why not consider an FF? What's your budget?

The Lusso is discontinued, so yes, I'll be buying used. I'm just not sure if the Ferrari dealer is the right place to start. To be clear, I'm not a fan of the brand itself. I can do without the elitism and all the BS that comes with exotic car ownership. I just like the car.

As alluded to in the OP, budget won't be an issue unless my personal circumstances change in the near future. Judging by the prices on auto trader, I'm looking at anywhere from $280-370k (before tax and other fees). I'm still unsure as to whether this will be a cash purchase or finance. I'll figure that out once I get the details ironed out.

I don't want the FF for a few reasons:
- It's older, feels dated compared to the Lusso
- No manufacturer warranty for the FF. At least with the Lusso, I'll be covered for a year or two.
- This one is personal, but the Lusso looks slightly better.

[ThePenIsMightier]

The Lusso is discontinued, so yes, I'll be buying used. I'm just not sure if the Ferrari dealer is the right place to start. To be clear, I'm not a fan of the brand itself. I can do without the elitism and all the BS that comes with exotic car ownership. I just like the car.

As mentioned in the OP, budget won't be an issue unless my personal circumstances change in the near future. Judging by the prices on auto trader, I'm looking at anywhere from $280-370k (before tax and other fees). I'm still unsure as to whether this will be a cash purchase or finance. I'll figure that out once I get the details ironed out.

I don't want the FF for a few reasons:
- It's older, feels dated compared to the Lusso
- No manufacturer warranty for the FF. At least with the Lusso, I'll be covered for a year or two.
- This one is personal, but the Lusso looks slightly better.

Ok, well I don't think you specifically mentioned "budget won't be an issue" in the OP, but now you've clarified that you understand how horrifically expensive these cars are, so that's good.
The importance of warranty better be the most confusingly important thing to you because this car may very well be the most depreciating car on the planet. Upwards of $50k/year in depreciation could cover a lot of repairs even on a V12 Ferrari. They have a warranty because they are confident they aren't going to have to pay it out.

And loud exhausts are for kids' Ferrari cars. This is the Gentleman's Ferrari.

[AltAcc]

Ok, well I don't think you specifically mentioned "budget won't be an issue" in the OP, but now you've clarified that you understand how horrifically expensive these cars are, so that's good.
The importance of warranty better be the most confusingly important thing to you because this car may very well be the most depreciating car on the planet. Upwards of $50k/year in depreciation could cover a lot of repairs even on a V12 Ferrari. They have a warranty because they are confident they aren't going to have to pay it out.

And loud exhausts are for kids' Ferrari cars. This is the Gentleman's Ferrari.

My apologies, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I should have been more clear in the OP. I've gone over the numbers in my head, and I have made peace with the fact that this purchase may very well become a money pit lol. Are you able to provide any insight into dealership experiences, any Ferrari related experiences having to do with ownership, or any other answers to questions in the OP? I appreciate any and all helpful responses.

[rage2]

If you’re buying used, there’s no reason not to go to Kulu directly IMO. He will have more access to cars even ones not on the market, and the customer experience can’t even be compared.

[AltAcc]

If you’re buying used, there’s no reason not to go to Kulu directly IMO. He will have more access to cars even ones not on the market, and the customer experience can’t even be compared.

This is a good start, thanks Rage. I assumed going private would be better. Judging by auto trader, there's not much of a local selection to pick from, so the vehicle will most likely have to be shipped in from another province. Would it be naive to say that Kulu > all other private dealers?

[ThePenIsMightier]

My apologies, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I should have been more clear in the OP. I've gone over the numbers in my head, and I have made peace with the fact that this purchase may very well become a money pit lol. Are you able to provide any insight into dealership experiences, any Ferrari related experiences having to do with ownership, or any other answers to questions in the OP? I appreciate any and all helpful responses.

My friends with these cars have found that the dealership basically has an expectation of about $10k/year in service. They don't prepare a work order and ask you what items you'd approve them to address. They take your keys, run up a bill and hand you that bill. Fluids as ridiculous as coolant, ATF and brake fluid may be called for annual replacement. Some 550 Maranello cars will literally be on their 5th timing belt with less than 50,000km on them.
It's a service designed for the original buyer and if that person gave a shit about disposable income, they wouldn't have bought that car.

Now their new cars have shifted gears into a "free servicing" for something crazy like 7 years. I guarantee they won't be specifying annual ATF changes when they're the ones paying, LoL!

You can decide to fix it wherever you want, but you're losing some of the pedigree of ownership and that devalues your car. While that may matter less on a 20+ year old car that wasn't a flagship, it probably still does matter to reduce the exponential depreciation at the start of the curve. Like on a GTC.

Don't forget there's a V8 GTC as well.

[Disoblige]

AltAcc, think hard about your decision.
Now makes me wonder what's the main account, lol.

fPS02EFgdfE

[killramos]

My guess is that Mario guy has finally bilked enough people from the lottery thread for a new car

[rage2]

This is a good start, thanks Rage. I assumed going private would be better. Judging by auto trader, there's not much of a local selection to pick from, so the vehicle will most likely have to be shipped in from another province. Would it be naive to say that Kulu > all other private dealers?
You're buying from Kulu so you don't have to deal with all that bullshit you just mentioned, plus better access to cars that haven't been listed. My car budget is 1/2 yours and I deal with Kulu on all my used purchases so I don't waste my time. Surprised you'd even consider buying and shipping privately. What a massive PITA with huge risks.

So no, going private especially with shipping and logistics would not be better.

[Buster]

why did the OP feel the need to use an alt?

[shakalaka]

That be nice ride.

[killramos]

why did the OP feel the need to use an alt?

I don’t want my boss to know how I’m spending my bonus.

Edit: shit wrong alt!

[AltAcc]

My friends with these cars have found that the dealership basically has an expectation of about $10k/year in service. They don't prepare a work order and ask you what items you'd approve them to address. They take your keys, run up a bill and hand you that bill. Fluids as ridiculous as coolant, ATF and brake fluid may be called for annual replacement. Some 550 Maranello cars will literally be on their 5th timing belt with less than 50,000km on them.
It's a service designed for the original buyer and if that person gave a shit about disposable income, they wouldn't have bought that car.

Now their new cars have shifted gears into a "free servicing" for something crazy like 7 years. I guarantee they won't be specifying annual ATF changes when they're the ones paying, LoL!

You can decide to fix it wherever you want, but you're losing some of the pedigree of ownership and that devalues your car. While that may matter less on a 20+ year old car that wasn't a flagship, it probably still does matter to reduce the exponential depreciation at the start of the curve. Like on a GTC.

Don't forget there's a V8 GTC as well.

Thank you, this gives me a good perspective about setting expectations. I did mention that I have no care for the brand itself. The pedigree of ownership can kiss my ass lol. These cars were built to be driven and enjoyed. I'm completely aware of how important finances are, but I'm not going to let the thought of depreciation bother me any longer. Cars are my one guilty pleasure, and even then, I never get the urge to splurge lol. For me, money is just money at the end of the day. I truly live well under my means, and If I don't spend some now on materialistic happiness, I probably never will. I plan on keeping this thing for as long as possible (as stupid as that may be sound). I've accepted the facts, and I'm not making this decision haphazardly.

I looked into the V8, but personally, it's V12 or nothing at this point.


AltAcc, think hard about your decision.
Now makes me wonder what's the main account, lol.

fPS02EFgdfE

Haha, main account has been a lurker for years ;) I can assure you that you won't be seeing me at car meets or showing off lol. I have no care for the "finer things in life".


My guess is that Mario guy has finally bilked enough people from the lottery thread for a new car

:rofl:

- - - Updated - - -


why did the OP feel the need to use an alt?

For the simple reason that I like to keep to myself. I can assure you I'm no troll. The members here have aided me before. Who better to ask for advice than the local enthusiasts themselves?

- - - Updated - - -


That be nice ride.

Speak for yourself Shak! You've had a great collection over the years. It's been entertaining to follow your journey so far lol.

[shakalaka]

Nowhere near the Ferrari level though, but one day. That being said, it's not my favourite Ferrari but if you like it then that's all that matters.

[Buster]

My guess is that Mario guy has finally bilked enough people from the lottery thread for a new car

I just want to point out the use of the word "bilked".

[killramos]

Did I misuse it in your eyes?

[Buster]

Did I misuse it in your eyes?

No, I meant that in a good way. It's such a good word.

[AltAcc]

You're buying from Kulu so you don't have to deal with all that bullshit you just mentioned, plus better access to cars that haven't been listed. My car budget is 1/2 yours and I deal with Kulu on all my used purchases so I don't waste my time. Surprised you'd even consider buying and shipping privately. What a massive PITA with huge risks.

So no, going private especially with shipping and logistics would not be better.

Thanks Rage, this puts my mind at ease for the purchasing aspect. As stated, I have no experience with exotics, so any and all help is appreciated. The more knowledge I can collect going into this, the more prepared I will feel. Cheers.

[ThePenIsMightier]

*
$30k visits to the service dept are also not unheard-of...

[AltAcc]

*
$30k visits to the service dept are also not unheard-of...

$30k for regular service visits? This just means I'll be avoiding the dealership like the plague.

Any shop recommendations guys?

[killramos]

Pretty sure this is one of those pay to play situations.

[ThePenIsMightier]

$30k for regular service visits? This just means I'll be avoiding the dealership like the plague.

Any shop recommendations guys?

They fix what they deem to be not completely perfect. Remember, it was a $460k car... that's big, like extremely long and wide... and has back seats and is seen by many as ugly and a completely inappropriate Ferrari... but was $100k more than a perfectly sexy, more typical Ferrari.
The person who bought this new has FuckOff money to the extent that he/she bought am understated Ferrari that without the Scuderia badges, no one would even recognize as a Ferrari rather than a Rolls Royce or some other pretentious heap of British shit.

The car makes zero sense to the casual observer and Ferrari doesn't care and they haven't cared since they got back on this insane horse with the 456, 456 Modificata, 612 Scaglietti, the FF and then the GTC.

If you're in Calgary or Vancouver, I'd consider establishing a relationship with Weissach for servicing. Lambo people I know spend closer to $2k/year there and they are realistic about what they take on.
If something almost significant needs to be done, it's entirely possible that it will be $30k. If something goes significantly wrong, $50k.

[AltAcc]

They fix what they deem to be not completely perfect. Remember, it was a $460k car... that's big, like extremely long and wide... and has back seats and is seen by many as ugly and a completely inappropriate Ferrari... but was $100k more than a perfectly sexy, more typical Ferrari.
The person who bought this new has FuckOff money to the extent that he/she bought am understated Ferrari that without the Scuderia badges, no one would even recognize as a Ferrari rather than a Rolls Royce or some other pretentious heap of British shit.

The car makes zero sense to the casual observer and Ferrari doesn't care and they haven't cared since they got back on this insane horse with the 456, 456 Modificata, 612 Scaglietti, the FF and then the GTC.

If you're in Calgary or Vancouver, I'd consider establishing a relationship with Weissach for servicing. Lambo people I know spend closer to $2k/year there and they are realistic about what they take on.
If something almost significant needs to be done, it's entirely possible that it will be $30k. If something goes significantly wrong, $50k.

This makes sense. Thanks once again for the enlightening perspective. As a car enthusiast, I wish this car existed without the association of the Ferrari badge. The snobbery, the elitism, the "big boys club", all things that I want no part of. I'm sure prestige and heritage is important to many, but to me, I just love the car for the simple facts that I laid out in the OP: NA V12 w/ a high redline, 4 usable seats, practicality (at least, much more than other exotics), and a mostly AWD system. Everything else is subjective.

Based on the research I've done, the biggest headache seems to be the PTU. The repair for this runs for about $30k, although certain reputable aftermarket manufacturers have come up with solutions that shave 50-60% off that cost. Thank you for recommending Weissach, I'll keep them in mind should this whole thing come to fruition.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm so low class I'd get a Kia Stinger and pretend that was better.

[killramos]

This makes sense. Thanks once again for the enlightening perspective. As a car enthusiast, I wish this car existed without the association of the Ferrari badge. The snobbery, the elitism, the "big boys club", all things that I want no part of. I'm sure prestige and heritage is important to many, but to me, I just love the car for the simple facts that I laid out in the OP: NA V12 w/ a high redline, 4 usable seats, practicality (at least, much more than other exotics), and a mostly AWD system. Everything else is subjective.

Based on the research I've done, the biggest headache seems to be the PTU. The repair for this runs for about $30k, although certain reputable aftermarket manufacturers have come up with solutions that shave 50-60% off that cost. Thank you for recommending Weissach, I'll keep them in mind should this whole thing come to fruition.

I thought that was the entire point of Ferrari?

[you&me]

They fix what they deem to be not completely perfect. Remember, it was a $460k car... that's big, like extremely long and wide... and has back seats and is seen by many as ugly and a completely inappropriate Ferrari... but was $100k more than a perfectly sexy, more typical Ferrari.
The person who bought this new has FuckOff money to the extent that he/she bought am understated Ferrari that without the Scuderia badges, no one would even recognize as a Ferrari rather than a Rolls Royce or some other pretentious heap of British shit.

The car makes zero sense to the casual observer and Ferrari doesn't care and they haven't cared since they got back on this insane horse with the 456, 456 Modificata, 612 Scaglietti, the FF and then the GTC.

If you're in Calgary or Vancouver, I'd consider establishing a relationship with Weissach for servicing. Lambo people I know spend closer to $2k/year there and they are realistic about what they take on.
If something almost significant needs to be done, it's entirely possible that it will be $30k. If something goes significantly wrong, $50k.

The difference in servicing costs has nothing to do with Weissach being cheaper than FoA and everything to do with the simple fact that the majority of Lamborghinis, outside of the V12s, are Audis.

That said, FoA is especially greasy when it comes to finding service items that magically inflate service bills.

If I were looking for a Lusso, I'd probably plan on servicing it at Riegel.

[ThePenIsMightier]

The difference in servicing costs has nothing to do with Weissach being cheaper than FoA and everything to do with the simple fact that the majority of Lamborghinis, outside of the V12s, are Audis.

That said, FoA is especially greasy when it comes to finding service items that magically inflate service bills.

If I were looking for a Lusso, I'd probably plan on servicing it at Riegel.

My bad. I'm always forgetting how incredibly reliable and inexpensive to fix the Audi brand is. It's their hallmark, really.

[haggis88]

My bad. I'm always forgetting how incredibly reliable and inexpensive to fix the Audi brand is. It's their hallmark, really.

Relative to an exotic...they're akin to a 2000 Toyota Camry

[ThePenIsMightier]

Relative to an exotic...they're akin to a 2000 Toyota Camry

Maybe a 1.8L Turbo TT is. But every time someone with a small wiener, (not staining you&me specifically) lives to relish in the semi-fragment fact a Gallardo or a Huracan "is just an Audi" so it makes them feel better about being an order of magnitude away from affording one, a little piece of me becomes erect.

Lamborghini is doing their thing and they've been doing it extremely well for quite some time. Their influence from Audi cannot be denied, but it's not like we're talking about a Cadillac Cimarron, here. It's an Italian company doing Italian things (to their benefit and detriment).

[dirtsniffer]

Rurrjurr finally cashed in those tesla shares

[JfuckinC]

Nah it’s NZwasp spending his AMC

[BavarianBeast]

I don’t know anything about the reliability or maintenance issues but I would try and find a private sale on auto trader and get it inspected before purchase. Good luck with the search!

[Buster]

This makes sense. Thanks once again for the enlightening perspective. As a car enthusiast, I wish this car existed without the association of the Ferrari badge. The snobbery, the elitism, the "big boys club", all things that I want no part of. I'm sure prestige and heritage is important to many, but to me, I just love the car for the simple facts that I laid out in the OP: NA V12 w/ a high redline, 4 usable seats, practicality (at least, much more than other exotics), and a mostly AWD system. Everything else is subjective.

Based on the research I've done, the biggest headache seems to be the PTU. The repair for this runs for about $30k, although certain reputable aftermarket manufacturers have come up with solutions that shave 50-60% off that cost. Thank you for recommending Weissach, I'll keep them in mind should this whole thing come to fruition.

The PTU issue is why I stopped looking at the FF and Lusso. If I got one, I would send the PTU out for the upgrade immediately. When it grenades (and it will), it can also take your engine with it. The V8 has no PTU, but I didn't have any interest in the v8

[AltAcc]

I don’t know anything about the reliability or maintenance issues but I would try and find a private sale on auto trader and get it inspected before purchase. Good luck with the search!

Thanks sir!


The PTU issue is why I stopped looking at the FF and Lusso. If I got one, I would send the PTU out for the upgrade immediately. When it grenades (and it will), it can also take your engine with it. The V8 has no PTU, but I didn't have any interest in the v8

Yeah, I found a company in Europe that replaces it with one that is much better quality. It's gonna set me back another 13k however.

[Buster]

Thanks sir!



Yeah, I found a company in Europe that replaces it with one that is much better quality. It's gonna set me back another 13k however.

theres some US guys that do it as well

[Team_Mclaren]

Funny enough, I was looking at a FF for a friend , and this is a bill I was shown by the seller on the PTU.

Ferrari Maintenance seen outrageous even compare to other brands too. For a super car, I don't understand the appear of the FF/GTC4. Why is AWD and back seat important?

99868

[Buster]

With the FF and lusso you either get it or you don't

[haggis88]

Maybe a 1.8L Turbo TT is. But every time someone with a small wiener, (not staining you&me specifically) lives to relish in the semi-fragment fact a Gallardo or a Huracan "is just an Audi" so it makes them feel better about being an order of magnitude away from affording one, a little piece of me becomes erect.

Lamborghini is doing their thing and they've been doing it extremely well for quite some time. Their influence from Audi cannot be denied, but it's not like we're talking about a Cadillac Cimarron, here. It's an Italian company doing Italian things (to their benefit and detriment).

I've asked a lot of F355 drivers where they got the bodykits for their MR2 :rofl:

[AltAcc]

Ferrari Maintenance seen outrageous even compare to other brands too. For a super car, I don't understand the appear of the FF/GTC4. Why is AWD and back seat important?

All the more reason to avoid servicing at the dealer lol. As for your followup question, Buster hit the nail on the head. However, to be a little more specific - AWD in case I want to drive in less-than-ideal conditions. Back seats so friends and family can comfortably enjoy the experience. Before anyone asks, no I would not consider an SUV, not my style lol.


With the FF and lusso you either get it or you don't

I think this can be applied for any wagon/shooting brake.

[ExtraSlow]

Being able to daily drive makes a pile of sense. Garage queen's confuse me

[Buster]

you can daily it if you dont care at all about depreciation. Ferrari people are little bitches about mileage.

[you&me]

Maybe a 1.8L Turbo TT is. But every time someone with a small wiener, (not staining you&me specifically) lives to relish in the semi-fragment fact a Gallardo or a Huracan "is just an Audi" so it makes them feel better about being an order of magnitude away from affording one, a little piece of me becomes erect.

Lamborghini is doing their thing and they've been doing it extremely well for quite some time. Their influence from Audi cannot be denied, but it's not like we're talking about a Cadillac Cimarron, here. It's an Italian company doing Italian things (to their benefit and detriment).

Be erect no more, my mighty friend, as my opinion of the Audi-ness of Lamborghinis (Gallardo specifically) is based on previous ownership.

The engine, transmission, awd system, gauges, hvac, infotainment, even the keys - all Audi and they barely try and hide it. And I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, but it does mean the cars are relatively inexpensive to service and it has nothing to do with Weissach being charitable with their rates (but like I said, FoA being so greasy also makes them look better by comparison). In fact, I'd say the Audighinis - along with the last-gen Ford GTs - are the bargain supercars when it comes to service cost relative to values.

Back on topic - The Lussos depreciate horribly, but the incremental depreciation of a driven car vs. a garage queen is the only way to make any sense of owning one. We should also not ignore the strangeness that is the Ferrari market... Cars that are often unloved in period often find a following as they age. 612s were deader-than-dead for a period, but interest had piqued as the design has aged well and is becoming more appreciated for its elegance. I don't think anyone will make that same argument for the FF & Lusso, but we can't discount the notion that this is very likely the last NA V12 2+2 Ferrari ever and that will definitely mean something in the years to come.

OP - go see Kulu, have him find you the best example he can, service the car at Riegel and drive the wheels off!

[Buster]

Be erect no more, my mighty friend, as my opinion of the Audi-ness of Lamborghinis (Gallardo specifically) is based on previous ownership.

The engine, transmission, awd system, gauges, hvac, infotainment, even the keys - all Audi and they barely try and hide it. And I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, but it does mean the cars are relatively inexpensive to service and it has nothing to do with Weissach being charitable with their rates (but like I said, FoA being so greasy also makes them look better by comparison). In fact, I'd say the Audighinis - along with the last-gen Ford GTs - are the bargain supercars when it comes to service cost relative to values.

Back on topic - The Lussos depreciate horribly, but the incremental depreciation of a driven car vs. a garage queen is the only way to make any sense of owning one. We should also not ignore the strangeness that is the Ferrari market... Cars that are often unloved in period often find a following as they age. 612s were deader-than-dead for a period, but interest had piqued as the design has aged well and is becoming more appreciated for its elegance. I don't think anyone will make that same argument for the FF & Lusso, but we can't discount the notion that this is very likely the last NA V12 2+2 Ferrari ever and that will definitely mean something in the years to come.

OP - go see Kulu, have him find you the best example he can, service the car at Riegel and drive the wheels off!

My strategy with the FF/Lusso would be to find the highest mileage clean one I could find and buy it at a massive discount off of the garage queen, then drive the miles off. I think we might be saying the same thing.

The sensitivity of the Ferrari market to depreciation can be put to your advantage. Although the Canadian market is small and dumb - people think these "high depreciation" Ferraris like the Lusso or ones with mileage, still deserve to get 5% off of retail after years - and they will sit on them forever.

[Buster]

All the more reason to avoid servicing at the dealer lol. As for your followup question, Buster hit the nail on the head. However, to be a little more specific - AWD in case I want to drive in less-than-ideal conditions. Back seats so friends and family can comfortably enjoy the experience. Before anyone asks, no I would not consider an SUV, not my style lol.



I think this can be applied for any wagon/shooting brake.

Since you're an alt, and have no desire and no reason to flex, I gotta ask: did you inherit the money or come into it recently? You're asking a lot of the type of questions that people who are looking at this level of car don't ask.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Be erect no more, my mighty friend, as my opinion of the Audi-ness of Lamborghinis (Gallardo specifically) is based on previous ownership.

The engine, transmission, awd system, gauges, hvac, infotainment, even the keys - all Audi and they barely try and hide it. And I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, but it does mean the cars are relatively inexpensive to service and it has nothing to do with Weissach being charitable with their rates (but like I said, FoA being so greasy also makes them look better by comparison). In fact, I'd say the Audighinis - along with the last-gen Ford GTs - are the bargain supercars when it comes to service cost relative to values....


But you didn't buy the Audi. You spent significantly more on the Lambo. Because they're different.

I'm referring to those people who say "it's the same car. You just overpaid for an Audi" like as if it's a Silverado/Sierra comparison.

[Buster]

VAG badge engineering is one of the reasons I'm not that interested in most of their products. Most BMWs are ugly now, but at least they are BMWs. Same with Merc.

[killramos]

VAG badge engineering is one of the reasons I'm not that interested in most of their products. Most BMWs are ugly now, but at least they are BMWs. Same with Merc.

Do PCars count?

[Buster]

Do PCars count?

Sure. 911 and Cayman are unique. But everything what isn't - Macan, cayenne, taycan

[AltAcc]

Back on topic - The Lussos depreciate horribly, but the incremental depreciation of a driven car vs. a garage queen is the only way to make any sense of owning one. We should also not ignore the strangeness that is the Ferrari market... Cars that are often unloved in period often find a following as they age. 612s were deader-than-dead for a period, but interest had piqued as the design has aged well and is becoming more appreciated for its elegance. I don't think anyone will make that same argument for the FF & Lusso, but we can't discount the notion that this is very likely the last NA V12 2+2 Ferrari ever and that will definitely mean something in the years to come.

OP - go see Kulu, have him find you the best example he can, service the car at Riegel and drive the wheels off!

This was part of my train of thought as well. We're essentially creeping towards the death/reduction of ICE engines. EVs are slowly becoming the craze, and as a car lover, this leaves me feeling conflicted about the future. Without going off-topic too much, I personally think these next few years will be one of the best times to scoop up some of the best sounding V8s/10s/12s.


Since you're an alt, and have no desire and no reason to flex, I gotta ask: did you inherit the money or come into it recently? You're asking a lot of the type of questions that people who are looking at this level of car don't ask.

Without going into too many details, I did acquire most of this wealth over the past several years. As I mentioned, I live well under my means. I've never had a thing for materialistic items. I haven't had any social media for close to a decade now, so I don't feel the need to flex or show off. My parents have always had the "keeping up with the Joneses" type of mentality. Seeing them struggle with finances while juggling the appearance of having wealth made me realize that I wanted nothing to do with that type of lifestyle. It has taken time, but I've become very comfortable with the notion of not caring about what others think of me :dunno:

As far as "fancy" cars go, I've driven Mercs for the better part of my early adulthood, but I'm not a fan of the direction they're heading in now (big touchscreens, most models looking like bigger or smaller versions of themselves - C/E/S, etc). I put some thought into cross shopping some other wagons (E63, RS6, CTS-V), but none of those sound nearly as good. I haven't been able to justify a "supercar" to myself in the past because they don't make sense financially, but that same mentality has almost made me feel like I've become a slave to my money lol. As long as I can make sure my family is taken care of, why not spend the extra income on shit that I'll enjoy? There's more to life than just letting your money make more money. It's obviously more complicated than that, but that's the simplest way to break down my thought process. I hope that answers your question :)