Electric garage heater

[03ozwhip]

So there is no gas run out to my shop. I'm looking to use an electric heater that can just be on low all the time, just to keep it from freezing in there when im not in there.

How many watts should I look for? Shop is 15x22. What do you guys use?

[killramos]

You have 240V out there?

Probably going to be an expensive prospect unless it’s insulated.

[03ozwhip]

You have 240V out there?

Probably going to be an expensive prospect unless it’s insulated.

Ya its 240 and insulated

[killramos]

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/stelpro-stainless-steel-spider-ceiling-fan-heater/1001644875

I’ve always thought one of these “spider” style heaters Would be interesting.

[firebane]

So there is no gas run out to my shop. I'm looking to use an electric heater that can just be on low all the time, just to keep it from freezing in there when im not in there.

How many watts should I look for? Shop is 15x22. What do you guys use?

I was going to pick up something like this https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-7500w-240v-workshop-heater-with-remote-0435120p.html#srp to use in my shop.

I use a propane heater right now but we know how good those are.

[ThePenIsMightier]

You don't need to spend more than $150.
I have something like this one:
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/240-volt-4800-watt-construction-heater/p/5571917

My only complaint was once last year, its thermostat got confused and it wasted a pile of electricity heating it up to 22°C when it was only supposed to be ~14°

[firebane]

You don't need to spend more than $150.
I have something like this one:
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/240-volt-4800-watt-construction-heater/p/5571917

My only complaint was once last year, its thermostat got confused and it wasted a pile of electricity heating it up to 22°C when it was only supposed to be ~14°

What is the loudness on those like?

[ThePenIsMightier]

What is the loudness on those like?

Ummm... It's louder than a fan but not by a whole lot. You can easily talk on the phone while it cycles on.


To OP:
You know that when you say "leave it on low all the time" that it doesn't work that way, right? It's either on or off and seeing a lower temp just means it cycles on less frequently and for shorter durations.

[a14]

I was going to pick up something like this https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-7500w-240v-workshop-heater-with-remote-0435120p.html#srp to use in my shop.

I use a propane heater right now but we know how good those are.

Just installed this exact unit in a insulated 22x24. Heats up fast and isn't loud at all.

[spikerS]

You don't need to spend more than $150.
I have something like this one:
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/240-volt-4800-watt-construction-heater/p/5571917

My only complaint was once last year, its thermostat got confused and it wasted a pile of electricity heating it up to 22°C when it was only supposed to be ~14°

This is all I use in my garage. Makes it comfy to be in there pretty quick.

[firebane]

I would have preferred to pick up the one from Canadian Tire but figured I would try out a contractor one first. Swung by Princess Auto and grabbed this one.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/4800w-240v-electric-shop-heater/product/PA0008993263

[legendboy]

I say go with a couple honeywell oil filled heaters

[ThePenIsMightier]

I would have preferred to pick up the one from Canadian Tire but figured I would try out a contractor one first. Swung by Princess Auto and grabbed this one.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/4800w-240v-electric-shop-heater/product/PA0008993263

Wow, that's cheap! I think you'll find that to be more than adequate.

[S-FLY]

$179 at Princess Auto.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/7500w-240v-electric-shop-heater/product/PA0008944829

I've had this exact same one in a double garage once and it heated the garage to 20C in no time when it was -15C outside.

[tha_bandit]

make sure you check the wire gauge also

[Darell_n]

make sure you check the wire gauge also

Why? The cord heat and wall outlet fire heat will only help. Have to keep an eye on the final result.

[03ozwhip]

Thanks guys, good suggestions.

[ExtraSlow]

I say go with a couple honeywell oil filled heaters

If you don't have 240v, this is pretty reasonable, although slow because they use natural convection. Each one is 1500w if my memory serves. 3000w would keep garage steady state I suspect. Would take a lot of hours to heat if it's cold soaked to minus 20 though.

[firebane]

If you don't have 240v, this is pretty reasonable, although slow because they use natural convection. Each one is 1500w if my memory serves. 3000w would keep garage steady state I suspect. Would take a lot of hours to heat if it's cold soaked to minus 20 though.

Yeah my shop is like 22x28 all lacking insulation and vaulted ceilings. I would like a permanent heater but not worth the costs yet so a smaller focused will work better for me.

[Strider]

Yeah my shop is like 22x28 all lacking insulation and vaulted ceilings. I would like a permanent heater but not worth the costs yet so a smaller focused will work better for me.

Wouldn't something like this be better for that application?
https://www.princessauto.com/en/1500w-quartz-ceiling-mount-heater-with-light/product/PA0008944787

[firebane]

Wouldn't something like this be better for that application?
https://www.princessauto.com/en/1500w-quartz-ceiling-mount-heater-with-light/product/PA0008944787

Nah those are very limited limited area they throw heat out and they have to be mounted. The smaller contractor heater can be moved around the shop to be near me to keep me warm :D

[tha_bandit]

Why? The cord heat and wall outlet fire heat will only help. Have to keep an eye on the final result.

one way of looking at it i guess.

here's some info, you can check breaker size also:
10 gauge, 30A max 5760W
8 gauge, 40 A max 7680W
6 gauge, 60A max 11520W
above ratings at 80% of load, typical safety factor

[cars5431]

Wouldn't something like this be better for that application?
https://www.princessauto.com/en/1500w-quartz-ceiling-mount-heater-with-light/product/PA0008944787

These are terrible. I had one and u will freeze still in a regular double. Installed dimplex 240v and can take from 5 to 20c in 20 min if you want for working out there As mentioned just don’t forget it set high in low temperatures. Your power bill will hate u. https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dimplex-garage-workshop-heater-grey/1000671948

[tha_bandit]

You can check out my previous post if you want to use a smart thermostat or any regular thermostat with it.
LINK TO POST (https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/414095-Heating-a-detached-garage-Forced-air-v-Infrared-v-Hydronic-slab?p=4946466#post4946466)

[legendboy]

If you don't have 240v, this is pretty reasonable, although slow because they use natural convection. Each one is 1500w if my memory serves. 3000w would keep garage steady state I suspect. Would take a lot of hours to heat if it's cold soaked to minus 20 though.

My grampa used one in his 22x22? garage, kept it above freezing all winter. I had a 10kw Ouellet forced air heater for a while, got a whopping $800 electricity bill when I left it at 10c during the winter.
If you want the ambient temp to be above freezing all the time I would still recommend the oil heaters over forced air. I would try 1 oil heater with a small fan blowing over it.

I bit the bullet and dug up my backyard to run gas. I keep my garage/shop at 15c all winter (for machinery & tooling) and don't even notice it on my gas bill

[killramos]

How does an oil filled heater use less electricity than any other kind of electric heater?

Electric heaters are essentially 100% efficient. 120V 240V oil filled forced air it really doesn’t matter waste energy is waste energy.

The only point of 240 is if you need more wattage than a 120V unit can provide.

[ThePenIsMightier]

How does an oil filled heater use less electricity than any other kind of electric heater?

Electric heaters are essentially 100% efficient. 120V 240V oil filled forced air it really doesn’t matter waste energy is waste energy.

The only point of 240 is if you need more wattage than a 120V unit can provide.

There's some Carnot Efficiency thing tingling the back of my mind about electric heater efficiencies not being as efficient as they appear.
But I can't remember the details.

[killramos]

I mean. They aren’t heat pumps. But resistance heating is virtually 100% efficient.

[ExtraSlow]

Yes, all forms of resistance heating are close to 100 percent efficient. The oil heaters are more stable heat, slower to go up and down, but not sure there's any situation where it saves electricity.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Isn't it something like.... If you use electricity to generate heat, your thermal efficiency is 100% or something like that. If you use electricity to do work and that work is focused on making heat, then you can end up with more heat than you would've by just using the electricity. Or something???
Which one of us dildos is supposed to know this?! Mech or Chem because it's Thermo, or Erectrical because Coulombs??!

I'm so very very tired today...

[killramos]

There is some distinction with impedance of the source relative to impedance of the load? But I think that is only relevant for batteries?

I haven't been a real engineer in a long time, but I think my statement holds for resistance heating with an AC source?

[Darell_n]

Oil filled heaters are safer against burns, that’s their advantage. You can literally grab them with your bare hands and have almost no fire hazard.

[ExtraSlow]

Isn't it something like.... If you use electricity to generate heat, your thermal efficiency is 100% or something like that. If you use electricity to do work and that work is focused on making heat, then you can end up with more heat than you would've by just using the electricity. Or something???
Which one of us dildos is supposed to know this?! Mech or Chem because it's Thermo, or Erectrical because Coulombs??!

I'm so very very tired today...

I don't think it works like that.

[suntan]

You have yet to embrace the New Laws of Thermodynamics.

[ZenOps]

Even though with nearly all heating elements you get the same overall BTU from wattage, they do differ.

Oil is slightly more efficient in the long term if just for the idea that the thermal mass is slower to release heat into the surrounding air. It also means that it is less instantenous heat. Slower/gradual means it has time to mix with the ambient air instead of simply going straight for the roof and out the highest point in the building.

A nichrome toaster wire will heat up the air immediately on extremely small surface area, of which it will almost immediately all go straight up to the ceiling if not reflected.

A glycol or oil heater on the ground with a reflector to the ground is best for 24/7 heat. For instantaneous heat, nichrome or quartz.

[killramos]

102633

My 100% efficient POS, even has a thermostat on the back. Snazzy.

[ExtraSlow]

Like

[killramos]

Need to keep my summer tires warm

[ThePenIsMightier]

Whoa! It's like a rap video in there!

"Got Patron in muh cup!
Got Patron in muh cup!
Got Patron in muh cup!
Got Patron in muh cup!"

[killramos]

Patron brand heaters are very up market

[legendboy]

Isn't it something like.... If you use electricity to generate heat, your thermal efficiency is 100% or something like that. If you use electricity to do work and that work is focused on making heat, then you can end up with more heat than you would've by just using the electricity. Or something???
Which one of us dildos is supposed to know this?! Mech or Chem because it's Thermo, or Erectrical because Coulombs??!

I'm so very very tired today...

Mechanical. An air handler designer sounds like a solid start :thumbsup:


Yes, all forms of resistance heating are close to 100 percent efficient. The oil heaters are more stable heat, slower to go up and down, but not sure there's any situation where it saves electricity.

What we are looking for is the cheapest, fastest way to get/keep a garage warmed during the winter. Forced air heater at 5kw will cycle on and off way more often (low efficiency) than a heat saturated oil heater at 1.5kw with a fan blowing thru its "coils", imho

[ZenOps]

Smart beyonders would use a bitcoin miner for heating. Yes, it does all eventually turn into heat.

[ExtraSlow]

What we are looking for is the cheapest, fastest way to get/keep a garage warmed during the winter. Forced air heater at 5kw will cycle on and off way more often (low efficiency) than a heat saturated oil heater at 1.5kw with a fan blowing thru its "coils", imho

You contradict yourself here. The fastest way to heat a cold garage is an oversized forced air heater. But that will mean it cycles off and on a lot once it's up to temp.

I am surprised that this is controversial.