Apple music shuffle algorithm

[03ozwhip]

I'm ready to get rid of Apple music just because I'm tired of the shuffle function. I have around 8k songs downloaded.

Yesterday I heard a few songs repeated within a few hours. Is there any way to have it so there shouldn't be any repeats?

I start up listening again today and it just seems like I'm hearing all the same songs as yesterday, wtf. Not sure if any other streaming services would be the same, any insight would be appreciated.

[suntan]

What people want:

Take this playlist and make a new playlist that has the songs reordered in random order.

What programmers provide:

Take this playlist and randomly pick a song from it.

The first is easy to do but requires a programmer to understand things like pointers. The second is very easy to do and requires little programming knowledge.

Just remember y'all, these are the same guys keeping your OS "secure".

[Buster]

People aren't just using Spotify? Weird.

[killramos]

Benefits of Spotify:

Has a free tier

I can see why Buster likes it

[suntan]

Incumbent apps have a HUGE advantage.

[Buster]

Benefits of Spotify:

Has a free tier

I can see why Buster likes it

I pay good money for my spotify!

[suntan]

People aren't just using Spotify? Weird.

Spotify's original shuffle was what programmers did.

They then tried the first way, but it was done in such a non-performant way that it materially affected battery life.

After about ten tries and programmers not employed by Spotify literally writing the code for them, they figured it out.

[Buster]

Spotify's original shuffle was what programmers did.

They then tried the first way, but it was done in such a non-performant way that it materially affected battery life.

After about ten tries and programmers not employed by Spotify literally writing the code for them, they figured it out.

I have no idea what any of this means.

I just find it surprising that people would use something called "Apple Music" instead of one of the better options. Do people make this decision because Apple is 2nd or 3rd best at almost everything, and that's easier than using the best product for each task?

[killramos]

I have no idea what any of this means.

I just find it surprising that people would use something called "Apple Music" instead of one of the better options. Do people make this decision because Apple is 2nd or 3rd best at almost everything, and that's easier than using the best product for each task?

What is Spotify better at?

[pheoxs]

What is Spotify better at?

Literally everyone I know uses it, which means its much easier to find music. Can just search friends and play their playlists. Makes playing DJ on road trips much easier as I can play your music without switching bluetooth.

[killramos]

So Spotify is better because your friends have better choice in music that you do?

I don’t have poor friends so we all own our own vehicles and phones.

[suntan]

Spotify has lots of podcasts.

[Buster]

So Spotify is better because your friends have better choice in music that you do?

I don’t have poor friends so we all own our own vehicles and phones.

Can I cast to my in-ceiling speakers from Apple Music?

Maybe I can if I have Apple Music on android, which is lulz.

[killramos]

Can I cast to my in-ceiling speakers from Apple Music?

Maybe I can if I have Apple Music on android, which is lulz.

I do?

[Buster]

I do?

how do you play music on your in ceiling speakers on an iPhone. I actually have no idea.

[killramos]

The same way I play music to any other speaker?

I personally use Sonos, which accesses my Apple Music sub natively, or I can AirPlay from my phone to any of the sinks speakers alternatively.

I can also AirPlay from my phone to my Marantz home theatre.

I suppose I could Bluetooth anything from my phone too if I wanted to?

None of this is new lol, Weird question.

[Buster]

The same way I play music to any other speaker?

I personally use Sonos, which accesses my Apple Music sub natively, or I can AirPlay from my phone to any of the sinks speakers alternatively.

I can also AirPlay from my phone to my Marantz home theatre.

I suppose I could Bluetooth anything from my phone too if I wanted to?

None of this is new lol, Weird question.

It's new to me. It sounds like it works, if a little complicated.

[ExtraSlow]

Mods can we move this to the apple vs android subforum?

[killramos]

It's new to me. It sounds like it works, if a little complicated.

Didnt you need to buy a half dozen intermediate google products to make your speakers work?

[Buster]

Didnt you need to buy a half dozen intermediate google products to make your speakers work?

nope

[ThePenIsMightier]

Gettin Spicy!!!

[killramos]

nope


i have 6 zones running chromecast audios on each.

I use this amp:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/b004s3py9m/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=utf8&psc=1

sonos can blow me.

o rry

[Buster]

o rry

Are you talking about the chromecasts themselves? You would add one to each zone in a modular setup. But you also need to add an amp for each channel too. Unless you know how to get a signal and power to a speaker with an antimatter projector or some shit.

[killramos]

Are you talking about the chromecasts themselves? You would add one to each zone in a modular setup. But you also need to add an amp for each channel too. Unless you know how to get a signal and power to a speaker with an antimatter projector or some shit.

What else would I be talking about?

My Sonos in ceilings with amps work without intermediate google or apple hardware.

Heck, so does my HT amp even across multiple zones.

[Buster]

What else would I be talking about?

My Sonos in ceilings with amps work without intermediate google or apple hardware.

Heck, so does my HT amp even across multiple zones.

Well, they work with Sonos intermediate hardware. I'm sure it works fine, I know a lot of people do that. The difference (correct me if I am wrong), is that Sonos needs a software intermediary in there, too. My setup is native to the OS.

[killramos]

Sonos does both

[Buster]

Sonos does both

Both what?

[killramos]

Both what?

Software intermediary and native OS integration. At least on apple.

I assume Sonos is priced out of android user territory.

[Buster]

Software intermediary and native OS integration. At least on apple.

I assume Sonos is priced out of android user territory.

Android does all this stuff for you. You don't even need a company like Sonos in the chain at all.

[suntan]

"Algorithms?" Better say something about Android.

[03ozwhip]

Wtf is going on in here lol I use apple music on android because I could find alot of the albums I wanted on Spotify, and it's still true today after using it for like 4 years.

I knew this wouldn't be a simple fix, just wondering if there was anything else that can be done about it.

[Buster]

Wtf is going on in here lol I use apple music on android because I could find alot of the albums I wanted on Spotify, and it's still true today after using it for like 4 years.

I knew this wouldn't be a simple fix, just wondering if there was anything else that can be done about it.

I would recommend starting a thread about that.

[killramos]

Android does all this stuff for you. You don't even need a company like Sonos in the chain at all.

Then why did you need to buy a bunch of intermediate hardware for your system?

[ExtraSlow]

I tried to warn the mods about containing this contagion to a single sub-forum, but they didn't listen to me.

[killramos]

How many rep points can you trade for a sub forum!

[Buster]

Then why did you need to buy a bunch of intermediate hardware for your system?

It's not intermediate hardware. It's the actual hardware.

Let's pretend you needed to ride a donkey over a field. Why would you first sit on a duck, and then sit on the donkey?

[ExtraSlow]

How many rep points can you trade for a sub forum!

I would be interested in knowing the conversion rate. @mods?

[suntan]

This is what happens when an Android user has too much money.

[Buster]

Only the #1 rep user can request sub forums. Sorry.

[killramos]

It's not intermediate hardware. It's the actual hardware.

Let's pretend you needed to ride a donkey over a field. Why would you first sit on a duck, and then sit on the donkey?

It’s intermediate hardware if it’s a normal feature that an amp/receiver can handle for you.

Intermediate. Between your Phone and your Amp.

Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist lol

[Buster]

It’s intermediate hardware if it’s a normal feature that an amp/receiver can handle for you.

Intermediate. Between your Phone and your Amp.

Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist lol

a receiver or a sonos has an amp and a source inside of it. The signal path is the same.

[killramos]

Sure it’s exactly the same, except where you draw arbitrary boxes to equate things to suit your point.

[03ozwhip]

Alright. Thanks for your "help" beyond....fuck me lol

[Swank]

This is what happens when an Android user has too much money.

Android users wouldn't have too much money if they had to pay iPrices.

[Buster]

Alright. Thanks for your "help" beyond....fuck me lol

"create new thread" is the forum equivalent of pulling the pin on a grenade,

[rage2]

I'm ready to get rid of Apple music just because I'm tired of the shuffle function. I have around 8k songs downloaded.

Yesterday I heard a few songs repeated within a few hours. Is there any way to have it so there shouldn't be any repeats?

I start up listening again today and it just seems like I'm hearing all the same songs as yesterday, wtf. Not sure if any other streaming services would be the same, any insight would be appreciated.


Alright. Thanks for your "help" beyond....fuck me lol
I’ll try and answer your question.

If your library is like mine, a combination of my old shit that I owned and other shit you’ve added, you’d have a lot of dupes in your full library. Just looking at my library of all songs, picked a random song “Ride the Lightning”, I have 10 versions of that song, 3 studio and 7 live from different albums. Throwing all in a shuffle means all 10 would be in rotation, with chance of dupes. There is no way to filter from that.

Is that what you’re asking? Or are you saying the shuffle feature isn’t really shuffling properly? I’m actually not sure if it can handle that many songs.

[birdman86]

Man I've almost made this post so many times.

I have a playlist with about a 1,000 songs in it that I hit shuffle on whenever I'm going somewhere, driving dog park whatever. Despite a fresh shuffle each time, I'll still hear the same handful of songs within the first couple hours without failure while there's other songs that I've completely forgotten exist. Shit there's even one song that has zero plays even though I've used this playlist near daily for years.

Somethin fucky going on.

[tha_bandit]

i thought that they used some sort of algorithm or genius mode that only shuffles songs you like and 'want' to hear, meaning its not truly random?

[03ozwhip]

I’ll try and answer your question.

If your library is like mine, a combination of my old shit that I owned and other shit you’ve added, you’d have a lot of dupes in your full library. Just looking at my library of all songs, picked a random song “Ride the Lightning”, I have 10 versions of that song, 3 studio and 7 live from different albums. Throwing all in a shuffle means all 10 would be in rotation, with chance of dupes. There is no way to filter from that.

Is that what you’re asking? Or are you saying the shuffle feature isn’t really shuffling properly? I’m actually not sure if it can handle that many songs.

Nah, it's literally just repeating the same songs. I get it if I have multiple versions, but that's not the case here.

I listen to music alot, so maybe I notice it more than the average guy, super frustrating.

- - - Updated - - -


Man I've almost made this post so many times.

I have a playlist with about a 1,000 songs in it that I hit shuffle on whenever I'm going somewhere, driving dog park whatever. Despite a fresh shuffle each time, I'll still hear the same handful of songs within the first couple hours without failure while there's other songs that I've completely forgotten exist. Shit there's even one song that has zero plays even though I've used this playlist near daily for years.

Somethin fucky going on.

Yep, that's exactly it. I've tried turning on and off shuffle 10 times to see what happens yesterday and I got 2 of the same song within an hour.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Do Apple users need to refer to Mario's lottery page? It's not like the 6-49 lottery "randomly" selects 6 new numbers for 8 weeks in a row before it has to repeat one.
That's not what random means.

[rage2]

Was playing around with the shuffle all songs feature last night, while I couldn't get it do duplicate the behavior, I *think* it's because it doesn't actually shuffle the entire song list. The "play next" list only shows like 200 songs. When a song finishes, it loads another new one in the shuffle. I mean I couldn't get it to happen like you guys said, but if it's only maintaining 200 songs in the shuffle, I can see it happening.

That said, WTF you shuffling your entire library for? Listening to that was pretty fucked up. Went from Thomas the Train to Fuck da Police lol.

[ExtraSlow]

Sounds legit. Also, have you heard of steaming?

[birdman86]

Was playing around with the shuffle all songs feature last night, while I couldn't get it do duplicate the behavior, I *think* it's because it doesn't actually shuffle the entire song list. The "play next" list only shows like 200 songs. When a song finishes, it loads another new one in the shuffle. I mean I couldn't get it to happen like you guys said, but if it's only maintaining 200 songs in the shuffle, I can see it happening.

That makes sense to me. Like over time the repeats will change but in a given week there's always this loop. Drawing the same few songs out of 200 is a lot easier to understand.

My best bet is I'm just hitting play to resume the shuffle rather than a full restart of the app, so it just re-shuffles the play next list hence repeats. Still, dumb behavior. If that's right then Apple just needs to redraw the play next list whenever playback resumes after the device i.e. truck, headphones power cycles or something idk.


That said, WTF you shuffling your entire library for? Listening to that was pretty fucked up. Went from Thomas the Train to Fuck da Police lol.

Every song in my library is gold Jerry, gold!

[suntan]

Trance 1000 - 1001 songs.

Besides, shuffling that many songs isn't difficult.

[03ozwhip]

Rather than start a new thread, I have another issue and I get the same bullshit tech answers "clear cache, reset phone" bla bla bla.

Apple music is downloading music while I'm sleeping and while I'm on wifi, but clearly my wifi is shutting off or something when I'm asleep, because every few days, Apple music downloads 7-12gb of data in one night.

I have my settings set to not use mobile data and only on wifi but im not sure wtf else to do. Thus is on Android not iPhone BTW

[killramos]

Well there is your problem right there…

I would guess it has something to do with how android handles background app refresh.

Maybe try opening the Apple Music app shortly before going to bed so that the app is still active in memory and not hibernated or something.

That said… what is the actual issue? A lot of playlists don’t update daily. Are you just wanting to smooth out your data usage or something?

[03ozwhip]

Well there is your problem right there…

I would guess it has something to do with how android handles background app refresh.

Maybe try opening the Apple Music app shortly before going to bed so that the app is still active in memory and not hibernated or something.

That said… what is the actual issue? A lot of playlists don’t update daily. Are you just wanting to smooth out your data usage or something?

Sorry, the issue is that I only listen to downloaded music, so I should be using 0 data, yet I go to sleep, wake up to find my phone downloading apple music and it downloaded a shit ton of gigs overnight.

[killramos]

It downloaded 10GB over cellular?

Do you have wifi assist/boost (whatever android calls it) turned on?

If the wifi sucks where you plug in your phone for the night that could be the issue.

Otherwise, sounds like it’s android not blocking cellular use in the app properly. No idea how to help you there.

[03ozwhip]

It downloaded 10GB over cellular?

Do you have wifi assist/boost (whatever android calls it) turned on?

If the wifi sucks where you plug in your phone for the night that could be the issue.

Otherwise, sounds like it’s android not blocking cellular use in the app properly. No idea how to help you there.

I suspect that's the issue too, wifi turning off when im sleeping, but the apple music app isn't supposed to do anything on mobile data.

I found a setting on wifi to get notifications to switch apps when they can't connect, so im hoping that I get asked to switch and I have to approve it before it does. We'll see if it works

[ExtraSlow]

Have you tried using a different music app that has a functional android app? Or a different phone that works well with Apple music?

Apple is an all or nothing kind of ecosystem. Don't dip your toe.

[killramos]

It’s really too bad android phones seem to have issues doing what they’re told

[kenny]

It’s really too bad android phones seem to have issues doing what they’re told

Sounds more like an issue with the app itself ignoring the setting to not download when not on wifi. Second issue is the size of nightly downloads, how much is actually changing on the playlists on a nightly basis to result in 12GB of downloads?

[killramos]

The OS let’s the app make/ignore the rules?

[03ozwhip]

Sounds more like an issue with the app itself ignoring the setting to not download when not on wifi. Second issue is the size of nightly downloads, how much is actually changing on the playlists on a nightly basis to result in 12GB of downloads?

I'm not super techy by any means, but I know what the settings mean and everything has been the same forever. I called apple and telus and they both pointed fingers at each other and then at Android support.

I dont know where else to go from there if Android support can't help me. Turn my data off while I'm sleeping IDFK

[kenny]

I'm not super techy by any means, but I know what the settings mean and everything has been the same forever. I called apple and telus and they both pointed fingers at each other and then at Android support.

I dont know where else to go from there if Android support can't help me. Turn my data off while I'm sleeping IDFK

If you disabled data inside the Apple music app for playlist syncing, and it's still using data you can go into Android settings and block background data usage by the Apple Music app. Shutting off data overnight would obviously work as well.

It is a known issue with the Apple music app (on iOS and Android) using up a ton of data. Doesn't affect everyone it seems but there are a bunch of people on support forums asking about it.


The OS let’s the app make/ignore the rules?

Yes, two different ways to stop data usage. One is app restricting data on its own (OS doesn't control that), and then there is OS restricting data usage by apps.

[03ozwhip]

If you disabled data inside the Apple music app for playlist syncing, and it's still using data you can go into Android settings and block background data usage by the Apple Music app. Shutting off data overnight would obviously work as well.

It is a known issue with the Apple music app (on iOS and Android) using up a ton of data. Doesn't affect everyone it seems but there are a bunch of people on support forums asking about it.



Yes, two different ways to stop data usage. One is app restricting data on its own (OS doesn't control that), and then there is OS restricting data usage by apps.

Ya man thats all shut off, I did notice it being a known issue with androids. I'm just going to have to stop using apple music and find a better platform.