Boomers claiming financial life is easier today

[mr2mike]

Getting real tired of the Boomer crowd telling me,
"We got by on one income and raised a family".
"You guys just always need the best and that's why you're in debt"
"You Father's income wasn't very much but we managed to buy our home"
"Interest rates were 20% and your mom could still stay at home and raise you kids"
"Both parents don't need to work today. You're just too greedy with material items is all and you need to choose, raise your kids or have newest phone."

I've looked at the CPI calcs and what salaries were back in 1980s and 90s vs today and I don't think I'm off base with saying, they could not do it the same as today. No a chance unless it was a basement suite rental in NE Calgary or Airdrie.

Discuss.
Show off the tables or stacked bar charts you know that show Canadians are in deep now compared to 80s & 90s.

[bjstare]

Sounds like the boomers you talk to are idiots.

All the boomers I know and talk about finances with are smart enough to know that it's objectively, quantitatively "harder" now.

[ExtraSlow]

My favourite boomer-ism is that it's younger workers fault for jumping jobs so often.

[killramos]

MMM / DBP

*obligatory lower case letters

[ThePenIsMightier]

While I'm sure it's not easier, they couldn't get a Jetta with a simple 84 months of payments and have 9 different options of gov't sponsored, online gambling from the comfort of their rent-to-own pleather couch while waiting for someone to deliver $8 worth of food for a $6 fee.
But, we can and we do!

So I says to the OP, I says, "we ain't exactly helping ourselves".

[suntan]

Leveraged asset prices are inversely proportional to interest rates.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I don't believe you that these are real conversations.

[Lex350]

Oh great...this is going to turn into another r/canada post.

[dirtsniffer]

^ It's almost strange how middle of the road that sub is on the political spectrum

[Xtrema]

"Both parents don't need to work today. You're just too greedy with material items is all and you need to choose, raise your kids or have newest phone."


A friend's teenage daughters (late teens, high school/uni) told him they pick the latter, as in they are not having kids.

He is not sure how to feel about that.

But that could be a whole different discussion than low wage and high inflation.


^ It's almost strange how middle of the road that sub is on the political spectrum

Sorry, that's extremism today according the Killy's horseshoe theory.

[speedog]

Huh, well boomer here so I'll bite.

• We did get by on one modest income but money was always tight. Kids had a stay at home mom while most other boomers we knew went the dual income/kids in daycare route. Ran one vehicle for years until transit was no longer a viable option for me due to a career change.

• Never told our kids that they always need the best and that's why you're in debt. If anything, our kids are all quite thrifty and manage their money well.

• My income wasn't very much, nah it was good for the career path I had been in with a large corporation and yeah, we did buy a home based upon my income. But I do recognize that wages haven't kept up with housing, hell I'm now looking for a smaller place for my parents to live into and the prices scare my as our last home purchase was under $150,000

• Interest rates were brutal in our first home, 18% mortgage or something ridiculous like that and yeah, my wife stayed home. But we didn't have 2 fancy new vehicles or take fancy vacations - we were quite frugal because we had to be.

• Both parents don't need to work today - I think that's quite a bit more difficult these days but I know some young families that are doing it. They own one older vehicle and own a smaller home that's not in Aspen or Rocky Ridge or on a lake or that 2,500+ square feet. All I know is that it would be more difficult as compared to our personal situation and we certainly didn't have it easy.

For reference, our first home was a pre-WW2 2 bedroom bungalow that was under 600 square feet on the main level - we started out as a young couple and grew to be a family of 4 in that home. How many of you are living in a home that small with 2 kids? Or even a 1,200 square foot home? Hell, even our current home has less than 1,400 square feet above grade and we raised a family of 6 in that space.

So yeah, I'm a boomer and go ahead - paint me with that broad brush.

[Buster]

I dunno. Have you seen the porn they had to deal with? I mean full send on the bush back then.

[ExtraSlow]

Speedo, you aren't just A boomer, you are THE boomer for beyond.

[Masked Bandit]

Huh, well boomer here so I'll bite.

• We did get by on one modest income but money was always tight. Kids had a stay at home mom while most other boomers we knew went the dual income/kids in daycare route. Ran one vehicle for years until transit was no longer a viable option for me due to a career change.

• Never told our kids that they always need the best and that's why you're in debt. If anything, our kids are all quite thrifty and manage their money well.

• My income wasn't very much, nah it was good for the career path I had been in with a large corporation and yeah, we did buy a home based upon my income. But I do recognize that wages haven't kept up with housing, hell I'm now looking for a smaller place for my parents to live into and the prices scare my as our last home purchase was under $150,000

• Interest rates were brutal in our first home, 18% mortgage or something ridiculous like that and yeah, my wife stayed home. But we didn't have 2 fancy new vehicles or take fancy vacations - we were quite frugal because we had to be.

• Both parents don't need to work today - I think that's quite a bit more difficult these days but I know some young families that are doing it. They own one older vehicle and own a smaller home that's not in Aspen or Rocky Ridge or on a lake or that 2,500+ square feet. All I know is that it would be more difficult as compared to our personal situation and we certainly didn't have it easy.

For reference, our first home was a pre-WW2 2 bedroom bungalow that was under 600 square feet on the main level - we started out as a young couple and grew to be a family of 4 in that home. How many of you are living in a home that small with 2 kids? Or even a 1,200 square foot home? Hell, even our current home has less than 1,400 square feet above grade and we raised a family of 6 in that space.

So yeah, I'm a boomer and go ahead - paint me with that broad brush.

Even though I don't match Mr. Speedog on the number of birthdays, although I don't know that I'm too far behind, I'm going to have to lean more to his side of the argument. I can't remember ('cuz I'm old) if it was in The Millionaire Next Door, one Malcom Gladwell's early books or maybe the original Freakonomics but the biggest reason for "today's" young families not being able to run things on one income was lifestyle inflation plain and simple. Bigger houses, more cars, more of everything.

I'm not saying everyone SHOULD live to the standards of 1965 but you can't have your cake and eat it too. My household like most others have CHOSEN to go dual income so we can have all the modern trappings.

[vengie]

Huh, well boomer here so I'll bite.

• We did get by on one modest income but money was always tight. Kids had a stay at home mom while most other boomers we knew went the dual income/kids in daycare route. Ran one vehicle for years until transit was no longer a viable option for me due to a career change.

• Never told our kids that they always need the best and that's why you're in debt. If anything, our kids are all quite thrifty and manage their money well.

• My income wasn't very much, nah it was good for the career path I had been in with a large corporation and yeah, we did buy a home based upon my income. But I do recognize that wages haven't kept up with housing, hell I'm now looking for a smaller place for my parents to live into and the prices scare my as our last home purchase was under $150,000

• Interest rates were brutal in our first home, 18% mortgage or something ridiculous like that and yeah, my wife stayed home. But we didn't have 2 fancy new vehicles or take fancy vacations - we were quite frugal because we had to be.

• Both parents don't need to work today - I think that's quite a bit more difficult these days but I know some young families that are doing it. They own one older vehicle and own a smaller home that's not in Aspen or Rocky Ridge or on a lake or that 2,500+ square feet. All I know is that it would be more difficult as compared to our personal situation and we certainly didn't have it easy.

For reference, our first home was a pre-WW2 2 bedroom bungalow that was under 600 square feet on the main level - we started out as a young couple and grew to be a family of 4 in that home. How many of you are living in a home that small with 2 kids? Or even a 1,200 square foot home? Hell, even our current home has less than 1,400 square feet above grade and we raised a family of 6 in that space.

So yeah, I'm a boomer and go ahead - paint me with that broad brush.

Four level split for the win!

Thanks for you perspective speedog !
Your posts and insight are usually quite enjoyable.

[speedog]

Speedo, you aren't just A boomer, you are THE boomer for beyond.

No, there are other boomers on here and I am surprised to be called THE boomer because I've certainly taken a big step back in participating here. Then again, maybe it's THE boomer in a mocking way - might've well flown right over by head.

Never the less, I'll step away again - probably best for all.

[Tik-Tok]

I think it's all the little stuff that adds up.

In the 70/80's you weren't paying for 2+ cell phones, internet, cable, kids sports were dirt cheap, almost every hobby was relatively inexpensive. Used Cars didn't cost nearly as much to buy, or fix. etc.

[JRSC00LUDE]

No, there are other boomers on here and I am surprised to be called THE boomer because I've certainly taken a big step back in participating here. Then again, maybe it's THE boomer in a mocking way - might've well flown right over by head.

Never the less, I'll step away again - probably best for all.

I don't think anyone mocks you actually. I like your contributions.

[davidI]

I dunno. Have you seen the porn they had to deal with? I mean full send on the bush back then.

Pubic Hair Deflation FTW. :poosie:

[ExtraSlow]

No, there are other boomers on here and I am surprised to be called THE boomer because I've certainly taken a big step back in participating here. Then again, maybe it's THE boomer in a mocking way - might've well flown right over by head.

Never the less, I'll step away again - probably best for all.

I make fun of everyone most of the time, but I wasn't trying to be mocking this time.

[msommers]

Getting real tired of the Boomer crowd telling me,
"We got by on one income and raised a family".
"You guys just always need the best and that's why you're in debt"
"You Father's income wasn't very much but we managed to buy our home"
"Interest rates were 20% and your mom could still stay at home and raise you kids"
"Both parents don't need to work today. You're just too greedy with material items is all and you need to choose, raise your kids or have newest phone."

I've looked at the CPI calcs and what salaries were back in 1980s and 90s vs today and I don't think I'm off base with saying, they could not do it the same as today. No a chance unless it was a basement suite rental in NE Calgary or Airdrie.

Discuss.
Show off the tables or stacked bar charts you know that show Canadians are in deep now compared to 80s & 90s.

Every metric I've read shows that life is a lot more expensive now than then, and a select few Boomers think that life is peachy and easy now, we're all lazy etc etc. However, many Boomers I've spoken with don't actually feel this way and are of the mind that, for example, all their kids need a hand with a down payment because they'll really not be able to enter the housing market. Talk to anyone in mortgages, gifts from parents incredibly common now.

I really do feel it's a select group of idiots who are making the most noise about this stuff.

[rage2]

I’ll try to speak for my boomer parents. Fresh immigrants in ‘82, both worked full time plus lots of OT, didn’t buy first home till ‘84 where we shared with another family. 2 families in a sub 1000sqft home in the hood. I was raised by TV, can’t afford shit so we’d have illegal descramblers from Chinatown, basically home alone since I was 8 years old. Vacations were day trips to west Edmonton mall, never got on a plane again till I was in my late 20s. Meals on vacation? One hamburger each kid, one fry shared. kenny should remember those vacations haha. Wanted to play hockey, couldn’t afford it. Used skates was all we got, we’d steal wood from nearby construction sites to make our own goalie nets and shit. Summer baseball? Tennis balls and broken hockey sticks as bats lol.

I mean, a have a million other stories I could share growing up in the hood, that shit would not fly today. The bare minimum has been reset for todays kids, so OPs boomer isn’t wrong, but they’re also not right. Half the shit we went through, such as being home alone till 10pm with a 8 year old watching a 4 year old will get someone thrown in jail today.

One thing I learnt growing up like that, is not to start a family till I could afford it.

[ercchry]

The world has changed so much I’m not sure how you can even start comparing then and now… a few large things that come to mind:

-things use to be built in North America, they were built to last by people that were paid enough to provide for a family. This has since been replaced with Amazon/Walmart fulfilment centres staffed with min wage workers moving goods that break and need replacement as you cannot service them.

-the labour pool has also been globalized, along with this is more competition that drives lower wages along with a sense of your staff being replaceable. There is no longer loyalty to staff or business with it being the exception that someone is a lifelong employee vs the norm.

-access to information. It once was finely filtered and only available the next morning via the daily paper… now it’s instant. This has made the markets respond with knee jerk reactions within minutes/hours for what use to take days/weeks. This volatility has pushed large corporations to focus more than ever on the shareholders than their staff’s well-being, ties into the above as well, with globalization of markets, cheaper, faster, better, etc

[suntan]

Yeah those RCA TVs sure were better. Nostalgia effect in full force.

[ercchry]

Yeah those RCA TVs sure were better. Nostalgia effect in full force.

Not better, but you bought it once and it lasted, cause “tv repairman” was a job :nut:

[Buster]

The world has changed so much I’m not sure how you can even start comparing then and now… a few large things that come to mind:

-things use to be built in North America, they were built to last by people that were paid enough to provide for a family. This has since been replaced with Amazon/Walmart fulfilment centres staffed with min wage workers moving goods that break and need replacement as you cannot service them.

-the labour pool has also been globalized, along with this is more competition that drives lower wages along with a sense of your staff being replaceable. There is no longer loyalty to staff or business with it being the exception that someone is a lifelong employee vs the norm.

-access to information. It once was finely filtered and only available the next morning via the daily paper… now it’s instant. This has made the markets respond with knee jerk reactions within minutes/hours for what use to take days/weeks. This volatility has pushed large corporations to focus more than ever on the shareholders than their staff’s well-being, ties into the above as well, with globalization of markets, cheaper, faster, better, etc

you have it backwards. Efficient supply chains and cheap foreign labour have increased wealth, not decreased it.

[ercchry]

you have it backwards. Efficient supply chains and cheap foreign labour have increased wealth, not decreased it.

It has shrunk the middle class, yes… but as long as Musk and Bezo can live on Mars we’ve all done our part!

Also, these are just changes… draw your own conclusions of which is better

[Buster]

It has shrunk the middle class, yes… but as long as Musk and Bezo can live on Mars we’ve all done our part!

I don't see evidence of the "middle class shrinking" in any way that is relevant.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm sure someone can find the stats for this, but is the distribution of wealth in North America much more unequal than it was 40 years ago? Politicians talk about "the middle class" a lot, but I don't even know what that means anymore.

I swear I'm one of the poorest beyonders, but I'm much "richer" than my parents ever were. I have no idea if they were middle class, or if I am.

[Rocket1k78]

I’ll try to speak for my boomer parents. Fresh immigrants in ‘82, both worked full time plus lots of OT, didn’t buy first home till ‘84 where we shared with another family. 2 families in a sub 1000sqft home in the hood. I was raised by TV, can’t afford shit so we’d have illegal descramblers from Chinatown, basically home alone since I was 8 years old. Vacations were day trips to west Edmonton mall, never got on a plane again till I was in my late 20s. Meals on vacation? One hamburger each kid, one fry shared. kenny should remember those vacations haha. Wanted to play hockey, couldn’t afford it. Used skates was all we got, we’d steal wood from nearby construction sites to make our own goalie nets and shit. Summer baseball? Tennis balls and broken hockey sticks as bats lol.

I mean, a have a million other stories I could share growing up in the hood, that shit would not fly today. The bare minimum has been reset for todays kids, so OPs boomer isn’t wrong, but they’re also not right. Half the shit we went through, such as being home alone till 10pm with a 8 year old watching a 4 year old will get someone thrown in jail today.

One thing I learnt growing up like that, is not to start a family till I could afford it.

The hood as in SE or NE lol Ive got all the same experiences growing up in penbrooke and i was babysat by the tv too. I was taking the bus to marlborough mall in grade 6 with my friends to go to the lasers illusions.

[suntan]

Not better, but you bought it once and it lasted, cause “tv repairman” was a job :nut:

I got my washer fixed last week. Cost was $150 for the part and $170 for the labour. Not bad. Guy was in and out in about an hour. I presume some of that was him fucking my wife, so not bad.

What was the inflation adjusted cost back then for getting, say, a TV tube replaced?

[Buster]

I'm sure someone can find the stats for this, but is the distribution of wealth in North America much more unequal than it was 40 years ago? Politicians talk about "the middle class" a lot, but I don't even know what that means anymore.

I swear I'm one of the poorest beyonders, but I'm much "richer" than my parents ever were. I have no idea if they were middle class, or if I am.

People talk far too much about distribution of wealth. It's an unimportant factor unless it contributes to social unrest and the bastille gets stormed or gov't gets powerful enough that it getting captured by the elites is a danger.

[Xtrema]

Middle class is living upper class standards of the old.

If people are willing to raise their family in 1000 sqft dwelling again, it'll be more affordable, especially in Calgary.

But there seems to be some unattainable standards to keep up.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm sure someone can find the stats for this, but is the distribution of wealth in North America much more unequal than it was 40 years ago? Politicians talk about "the middle class" a lot, but I don't even know what that means anymore.

I swear I'm one of the poorest beyonders, but I'm much "richer" than my parents ever were. I have no idea if they were middle class, or if I am.

104244

There are stuff that's cheaper. Remember a gaming PC was like $4K in the 90s. It's same today. A 48" TV was for ballers in the 90s, now it's for guest bedrooms. For the longest time a Corolla (basic transportation) really didn't inflate much.

And 2000 sqft was a mansion in the 90s, now it's a just standard homes.

[suntan]

My goddamned Commodore 64 cost $300 in 80's dollars. My dad really loved me.

[ercchry]

Metrics based purely on income seems like a poor way to define “middle class”

But I guess the real question is, what is middle class?

It use to be the ability to save and acquire assets. But that seems to be something reserved only for those on the upper edge of the “middle class” earnings bracket.

Would a modern definition be closer to the ability to qualify and service debt obligations?

[Rocket1k78]

all their kids need a hand with a down payment because they'll really not be able to enter the housing market. Talk to anyone in mortgages, gifts from parents incredibly common now.

This will be the new norm if its not already, i also think that eventually people will be paying mortgages well into their 60's if not longer.

[Buster]

Metrics based purely on income seems like a poor way to define “middle class”

But I guess the real question is, what is middle class?

It use to be the ability to save and acquire assets. But that seems to be something reserved only for those on the upper edge of the “middle class” earnings bracket.

Would a modern definition be closer to the ability to qualify and service debt obligations?

It is a meaningless term. It's ultimately just a comparison and comparisons are just about jealousy.

People talk about the mythical group of the "middle class" as a way to score political points. Like when dummies use the term "trickle down economics" as if it wasn't just a campaign slogan.

[pheoxs]

I’m torn with this, I definitely recognize that I have a better quality life than when I was a kid. My dad worked while my mom stayed home then eventually had random part time jobs as we grew up. Things definitely cost a lot more nowadays but I think a lot of that (personally) also comes from having higher standards of living.

As a kid we:
- never ate out, that was a once a month kind of thing.
- once a month grocery runs, we lived a lot more off baking and frozen things
- never had a truck newer than 10 years old and ran them into the ground
- only vacations were camping trips in the summer
- never replaced things with new until they broke. 10+ year old tv. Old appliances, old couches, etc.
- if we needed something we often bought used from neighbours from word of mouth

I think if I went back to that standard then it’s probably a lot easier to raise a family on one income, but that’s not exactly how I want to live life anymore. Going out for food and drinks is great, socializing a lot more, going on trips, etc. I’d rather work and grind more to enjoy life than to just survive at home.

[bjstare]

Yup, just don't be poor.

[Tik-Tok]

If people are willing to raise their family in 1000 sqft dwelling again, it'll be more affordable, especially in Calgary.

.

Mehhh. I'm in a 1000sq.ft bungalow, bought prior to the housing boom of the 2000's, and we sure as hell can't make it on one middle-class income. When the house is paid off, sure, but not now.

Edit: not unless I stop saving for retirement anyways, which is one advantage boomers had, most of their middle class had pensions.

[Xtrema]

I think if I went back to that standard then it’s probably a lot easier to raise a family on one income, but that’s not exactly how I want to live life anymore. Going out for food and drinks is great, socializing a lot more, going on trips, etc. I’d rather work and grind more to enjoy life than to just survive at home.

Bingo, lives were different in the 80s. When my folks told my neighbor that we eat out at least 2 times a week, their jaw dropped.


Mehhh. I'm in a 1000sq.ft bungalow, bought prior to the housing boom of the 2000's, and we sure as hell can't make it on one middle-class income. When the house is paid off, sure, but not now.

Edit: not unless I stop saving for retirement anyways, which is one advantage boomers had, most of their middle class had pensions.

Yeah, those pensions were sweet. Especially from the likes of Shell Canada. We gen Xer had to DIY but finger cross, that's been ok so far.

[suntan]

Metrics based purely on income seems like a poor way to define “middle class”

But I guess the real question is, what is middle class?

It use to be the ability to save and acquire assets. But that seems to be something reserved only for those on the upper edge of the “middle class” earnings bracket.

Would a modern definition be closer to the ability to qualify and service debt obligations?
This was not a thing during the late 70s, all of the 80s and early 90s. Inflation ate away at savings. This is part of the reason why so many boomers are in such dire financial situations and are hoping their homes will sell for current prices.

[Manhattan]

Boomers and millenials/Gen Z are both right.

1) Technology has helped the poor have relatively high standards of living. You don't need much money to have the newest iPhone, nice laptop and 70 inch TV. Lots of little affordable gadgets that make life easier whether you're rich or poor. That kind of technology used to be reserved for the wealthy. Food prices also haven't increased that much. Advances in tech leads to deflation

2) Interest rates have climbed down from 80s to historical lows today leading to insanely high housing prices. If you're okay with a 30+ year mortgage your payments probably aren't all that much higher (maybe lower) compared to 20 years ago.

[ThePenIsMightier]

The exponential increase in people's dads getting fucked has put a new pressure on Boomers and they are simply voicing their displeasure about their overall situation.

Economics, inflation and arguments about buying power are scapegoats for their actual issue: violent rape.

[Manhattan]

I’ll try to speak for my boomer parents. Fresh immigrants in ‘82, both worked full time plus lots of OT, didn’t buy first home till ‘84 where we shared with another family. 2 families in a sub 1000sqft home in the hood. I was raised by TV, can’t afford shit so we’d have illegal descramblers from Chinatown, basically home alone since I was 8 years old. Vacations were day trips to west Edmonton mall, never got on a plane again till I was in my late 20s. Meals on vacation? One hamburger each kid, one fry shared. kenny should remember those vacations haha. Wanted to play hockey, couldn’t afford it. Used skates was all we got, we’d steal wood from nearby construction sites to make our own goalie nets and shit. Summer baseball? Tennis balls and broken hockey sticks as bats lol.

I mean, a have a million other stories I could share growing up in the hood, that shit would not fly today. The bare minimum has been reset for todays kids, so OPs boomer isn’t wrong, but they’re also not right. Half the shit we went through, such as being home alone till 10pm with a 8 year old watching a 4 year old will get someone thrown in jail today.

One thing I learnt growing up like that, is not to start a family till I could afford it.

Every generation is dealing with its own trauma and improves/gets a little softer depending on your perspective. Kids raised by TV/themselves in the 80s/90s was an improvement on the generation before it, especially immigrants, who probably not only raised themselves but dealt with frequent beatings/spankings, food insecurity, and extreme poverty. Having a warm place to sleep, plenty of (processed) food, and color TV was a big improvement.

Old school Chinese families not taking vacation is so common. Some weird extreme work ethic that that can't seem to shake even when they have the means to do it now. Chris Rock called it growing up too poor for your own good :D

[Buster]

Boomers and millenials/Gen Z are both right.

1) Technology has helped the poor have relatively high standards of living. You don't need much money to have the newest iPhone, nice laptop and 70 inch TV. Lots of little affordable gadgets that make life easier whether you're rich or poor. That kind of technology used to be reserved for the wealthy. Food prices also haven't increased that much. Advances in tech leads to deflation

2) Interest rates have climbed down from 80s to historical lows today leading to insanely high housing prices. If you're okay with a 30+ year mortgage your payments probably aren't all that much higher (maybe lower) compared to 20 years ago.

basically everything has gotten far cheaper on a labour-hour basis (ie a real basis). When things become cheaper, then consumer capital flows to other areas, causing those areas to increase in price over what they otherwise would be.

[ZenOps]

When I was a kid you had to save up for a month to get a 13" black and white TV with three channels.

[ThePenIsMightier]

For those that have said "dwelling sq-ft" I think you make excellent points. I'm saying this not because I feel it explains everything on one side of the debate, just moreso to emphasize the ludicrous expansion we've made in the perceived "need" of living space.

I think my original family arrived here and built a place smaller than a double garage to raise a family of 8 (before influenza started picking a couple off). And like someone else just said, 2,000 sq-ft was a "mansion" not that long ago.

[tirebob]

I don't see evidence of the "middle class shrinking" in any way that is relevant.I think I actually agree with this. I think the main difference today is the level of Uber-Wealth has expanded, and because of the way that they are celebrities today and in the public face 24/7, what we are dealing with is a giant case of "trying to keep up with the Jones's" and jealousy is huge. Now everybody can see what they have, they are pissed off and want some of it back...lol

[haggis88]

My financial life was easy until i met my wife

[Buster]

I think I actually agree with this. I think the main difference today is the level of Uber-Wealth has expanded, and because of the way that they are celebrities today and in the public face 24/7, what we are dealing with is a giant case of "trying to keep up with the Jones's" and jealousy is huge. Now everybody can see what they have, they are pissed off and want some of it back...lol

I think the idea of uber wealth itself is largely overstated to a great degree. The numbers in the bank or impressive, but much of what we consider "wealth" has become very normalized among the population.

Elon Musk still uses the same iphone as everyone else, for instance. The areas that the uber wealthy get big advantages keep getting pushed down the hierarchy of needs.

[tirebob]

My financial life was easy until i met my wifeNot a new phenomenon...

[ExtraSlow]

Hah, you guys need to marry rich like a few of the esteemed members of this forum.
I didn't manage that but my wife is very cheap, so still a new positive contribution.

[haggis88]

Hah, you guys need to marry rich like a few of the esteemed members of this forum.
I didn't manage that but my wife is very cheap, so still a new positive contribution.

Can she teach my wife?

[ExtraSlow]

Send your wife over for a few days and I guarantee she'll learn some things....

[CompletelyNumb]

Cost of living far outpaces average incomes. Everything else is just pandering or opinions. Fact is, life is more expensive and harder to get ahead for each new generation.

[Buster]

Cost of living far outpaces average incomes. Everything else is just pandering or opinions. Fact is, life is more expensive and harder to get ahead for each new generation.

How do you calculate this?

[davidI]

How do you calculate this?

I was going to make an attempt at the calculations but can't find any nominal data historical salaries/incomes. StatsCan always seems to adjust the data with CPI measures (without specifying the %'s) so the 1980 data I found was in 1995 dollars which makes it a little difficult to do analysis with.

A quick input on this CPI calculator shows a $20k basket of goods in 1980 would cost $62,338 now so average salaries/incomes should have at least tripled over the same period (though of course CPI could be sliced and diced to reflect any number of things).

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

[Lex350]

My financial life was easy until i met my wife

My financial life was easy till I divorced my wife!

[ThePenIsMightier]

My financial life was easy till I divorced my wife!

That's another good point!
We must be better off because something like 70% of us can afford to lose half our shit and restart a decade late!

[mr2mike]

Cost of living far outpaces average incomes. Everything else is just pandering or opinions. Fact is, life is more expensive and harder to get ahead for each new generation.


How do you calculate this?


I was going to make an attempt at the calculations but can't find any nominal data historical salaries/incomes. StatsCan always seems to adjust the data with CPI measures (without specifying the %'s) so the 1980 data I found was in 1995 dollars which makes it a little difficult to do analysis with.

A quick input on this CPI calculator shows a $20k basket of goods in 1980 would cost $62,338 now so average salaries/incomes should have at least tripled over the same period (though of course CPI could be sliced and diced to reflect any number of things).

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

Lots of great responses and replies.
This is what I was more so trying to get up. I've been running CPI calcs back and fourth comparing to known prices and I'm seeing the same thing.
A boomer claiming they made it work on a $50k salary in 1990.
That is the equivalent of $92k today.
The minivan they bought at $20k msrp is equal to $37k today.
Find me a new off the lot minivan for that? You're looking at $40+.
Gas was $0.45/L or less and I'd love to know what car insurance was looking like then? Rough stats show x4 increase.
Again, salary has not kept pace.

[Buster]

My point is that you cannot make such calculations in any easy way. Too much has changed in terms of technology, discretionary buying power, underlying quality of the basket of good, etc.

The person with the median income in Canada lives a far more lavish lifestyle than the person with the median income did in 1970.

[89coupe]

Do you need a brand new car or truck? No
Do you need the latest cell phone? No
Do you need an iPad for each kid? No
Do you need a tv in every room? No
Do you need a 3000+sqft home? No
Do you need to vacation every year? No
Do you need subscriptions to every streaming service? No

Boomers didn’t spend near as much as todays young generation, not even close.

Todays generation want everything.

Quit your bitching.

[davidI]

My point is that you cannot make such calculations in any easy way. Too much has changed in terms of technology, discretionary buying power, underlying quality of the basket of good, etc.

The person with the median income in Canada lives a far more lavish lifestyle than the person with the median income did in 1970.

If I found the data I was just going to parse out home purchase (based on ~1000 sq. foot 2 bedroom), food, fuel, and utility costs to compare against salaries. Sure, it's not an exact comparison since homes and cars have improved in quality and efficiency and the quality of standard foods (milk, eggs, bread, meat, cereals, basic fruit and veg) are arguably worse, but it would be interesting to compare the "basics".

An important consideration is how many households are now dual income. While discretionary income has perhaps increased, having two working parents is arguably a negative when it comes to child development.

[ThePenIsMightier]

I'm with Buster in that the math spreads into CoVid predictions territory when you try to calculate buying power alongside factoring for median vs mean.
It's a multivariable function, and those are a long way from easy to solve.

[Xtrema]

Lots of great responses and replies.
This is what I was more so trying to get up. I've been running CPI calcs back and fourth comparing to known prices and I'm seeing the same thing.
A boomer claiming they made it work on a $50k salary in 1990.
That is the equivalent of $92k today.
The minivan they bought at $20k msrp is equal to $37k today.
Find me a new off the lot minivan for that? You're looking at $40+.
Gas was $0.45/L or less and I'd love to know what car insurance was looking like then? Rough stats show x4 increase.
Again, salary has not kept pace.

There are different baskets as Buster points out.

Electronics are much cheaper.
Cars actually held the line until COVID.
MiniVan is a bad example because it's a casualty of SUV trend and lost the economy of scale.

Housing is definitely less afford able now but in Calgary it's not by much.

1990, median single income was $25K, Middle class house (Calgary) was $150k. So 6x but mortgage rate at 14%
2019, median single income was $63K, Middle class house (Calgary) is $450k. So 7-8x but mortgage rate at 2%

So unless you are in GTA/GVA, or Halifax (and may be soon in Calgary after Ontario is done with us), housing affordability is pretty good in Calgary.

[bjstare]

Do you need a brand new car or truck? No
Do you need the latest cell phone? No
Do you need an iPad for each kid? No
Do you need a tv in every room? No
Do you need a 3000+sqft home? No
Do you need to vacation every year? No
Do you need subscriptions to every streaming service? No

Boomers didn’t spend near as much as todays young generation, not even close.

Todays generation want everything.

Quit your bitching.

You forgot discretionary soda intake.

[Buster]

I hate the word "need". It complicates buying decisions.

[ExtraSlow]

Ford F150 is a fun one. XL or "custom" trim used to be the common one. Then XLT. These days most families buy a lariat, that used to be top of the line luxury.
I personally can't afford Lariat.

[XylathaneGTR]

You forgot discretionary soda intake.
$95 lunches at Murrieta's brah.

It's all about balance. Skip the pop to pay for those lunches. 89coupe got it figured out.

[JRSC00LUDE]

You people are savages.

[you&me]

You forgot discretionary soda intake.

You forgot marrying money.

[killramos]

You forgot marrying money.

Very important part of being middle class, wait… what are we talking about again?

[Darkane]

Ford F150 is a fun one. XL or "custom" trim used to be the common one. Then XLT. These days most families buy a lariat, that used to be top of the line luxury.
I personally can't afford Lariat.

I hear you. I also can’t afford lariat, that’s why we’re low-middle class.

We’re hyphenated, but remember I’m the big spoon even if you have a 3.5 and I have a 2.7.

[dirtsniffer]

I'm just happy I can live a comfortable life and be able to pay for unexpected expenses. How my parents did in comparison isn't really important, other than being thankful that gave me the skills necessary to succeed in life. No idea how they raised 4 kids though. jesus.

[89coupe]

You forgot marrying money.

You are so clueless lol

[ExtraSlow]

We’re hyphenated, but remember I’m the big spoon even if you have a 3.5 and I have a 2.7.
Works for me, I just want to be held.

[90_Shelby]

Do you need a brand new car or truck? No
Do you need the latest cell phone? No
Do you need an iPad for each kid? No
Do you need a tv in every room? No
Do you need a 3000+sqft home? No
Do you need to vacation every year? No
Do you need subscriptions to every streaming service? No

Boomers didn’t spend near as much as todays young generation, not even close.

Todays generation want everything.

Quit your bitching.

I tend to agree with this.

It also leads the way to the question, "if you believe it is too expensive to live the lifestyle you want, what are you willing to do in order to fix the situation?"

[tirebob]

I tend to agree with this.

It also leads the way to the question, "if you believe it is too expensive to live the lifestyle you want, what are you willing to do in order to fix the situation?"

Yep... Just looking at the numbers being quoted above, I have no idea how I made it. A wife, two kids and a single income of between 30k and never more than 40k a year in Vancouver in the mid/late 90's to the early 2000's. Basement suites and beater cars I would buy off the flatdeck scrap guy who would come by to have me peel off the tires I could get running and drive for 6 months before getting another. Campbells soup and sammies almost every day for a couple years. Value Village clothes and no cable TV and cheap worn out disney videos from the thrift shop for the kids. All so we could save up enough money for a cheap condo out in the burbs for our first place to buy.

Yeah I sound like that old boomer but every word of it is the truth. The young people not willing to do that nowadays complain and the ones that do it, get ahead eventually. You just gotta live how you need to so you can get where you want to be. Who said it was supposed to be easy?

[heavyD]

I think people have much more luxury items today but they are also in a lot more debt. It's just so much easier today to spend money you don't have and much easier to spend money with online transactions. I remember going from bank to bank for an $8k loan to get a Civic and getting rejected left and right despite having a steady income above minimum wage and few expenses outside of rent. Now it's ridiculously easy to get into a vehicle that's way above your means. My wife and I both had full time employment and we still got declined our first mortgage despite having $25k cash to put down on a $150k house and the only reason CIBC gave us one was because my dad threatened to pull all of his accounts from his branch. When we recently upgraded into a house worth twice as much as our last one, our mortgage guy snickered in a "yeah right" manner when I asked if he thought there would be any issues obtaining a mortgage for the new house. It's just different now just as it will be different for future generations as technology continues to advance.

[89coupe]

IMO there is no reason for a person to have any debt other than a mortgage or student loans, and even student loans can be avoided if you have good enough grades and the right scholarships. It all depends on how hard you are willing to work and how much you are willing to sacrifice.

The biggest issue is nobody wants to work hard or sacrifice anything.

Entitled society

[mr2mike]

I guess the other thing boils down to unless I'm out to lunch. Most of the people I knew growing up, the mom's stayed at home. One income and it worked. Middle class and the parents are retired with money to travel.

Appears, now it does not unless you're heading to the soup kitchen for meals out or there's an onlyfans account live feed running in the afternoons.

[suntan]

Do you need a brand new car or truck? No
Do you need the latest cell phone? No
Do you need an iPad for each kid? No
Do you need a tv in every room? No
Do you need a 3000+sqft home? No
Do you need to vacation every year? No
Do you need subscriptions to every streaming service? No

Boomers didn’t spend near as much as todays young generation, not even close.

Todays generation want everything.

Quit your bitching.

Thank god Brazilian waxes didn't make your list.

[XylathaneGTR]

IMO there is no reason for a person to have any debt other than a mortgage or student loans, and even student loans can be avoided if you have good enough grades and the right scholarships. It all depends on how hard you are willing to work and how much you are willing to sacrifice.
The biggest issue is nobody wants to work hard or sacrifice anything.
Entitled society

You say a lot of silly outlandish things which I love to rip on for my own amusement, but I think you've actually got part of the issue here. There are definitely people want the benefit without the work - but the issue is more complex than just entitlement.

It's hard to escape the trap: schooling costs are through the roof while wages have remained stagnant. You work your ass off for a degree and there are few jobs available (I screened resumes for new-grad positions at a large pipeline co. ...2000+ applicants for 25 openings). Property and rents are outpacing wages, so even when you do land a decent job most of your income already spent. You look at social media, your peer groups and see a skewed outcome, or blatant corruption from government. The grind just wears you down, and you feel like you'll never get ahead despite all the years of effort.

Yes, there's always opportunity in these challenges and some people ARE able to make something of them, but it's a much bigger problem than "how hard you're willing to work."

[suntan]

90% of applicants aren't qualified. Hell maybe 98%.

I got 500 resumes in two days for a job. Most had high school and that's it.

[XylathaneGTR]

This was a few years ago, but one of the minimum requirements was to have an engineering degree. Of my pile to screen (which was about 15% of the applicants), only a handful didn't meet that minimum requirement.

[suntan]

Ah, positions like that will be self-limiting. I get tons of random resumes for IT jobs.

[riander5]

Lets just hope realtors get disrupted soon. Would love to see that 5% bloat on the housing sector removed.

[ThePenIsMightier]

IMO there is no reason for a person to have any debt other than a mortgage or student loans, and even student loans can be avoided if you have good enough grades and the right scholarships. It all depends on how hard you are willing to work and how much you are willing to sacrifice.

The biggest issue is nobody wants to work hard or sacrifice anything.

Entitled society

Scholarships have been a scam bigger than Bre-X for over 20 years. Prove me wrong.

You* can't eat them and they don't generate heat.

*Unless Status Card.

[Buster]

You say a lot of silly outlandish things which I love to rip on for my own amusement, but I think you've actually got part of the issue here. There are definitely people want the benefit without the work - but the issue is more complex than just entitlement.

It's hard to escape the trap: schooling costs are through the roof while wages have remained stagnant. You work your ass off for a degree and there are few jobs available (I screened resumes for new-grad positions at a large pipeline co. ...2000+ applicants for 25 openings). Property and rents are outpacing wages, so even when you do land a decent job most of your income already spent. You look at social media, your peer groups and see a skewed outcome, or blatant corruption from government. The grind just wears you down, and you feel like you'll never get ahead despite all the years of effort.

Yes, there's always opportunity in these challenges and some people ARE able to make something of them, but it's a much bigger problem than "how hard you're willing to work."

I don't understand the "school is too expensive" thing. If you don't want to (or can't) pay for school - then don't go.

[XylathaneGTR]

When you're viewing it as singular boolean outside of the system, sure. If you can't afford it, either find a way to afford it or don't go. No argument there.

My comment is in the context of when education is reinforced as a necessary step of the system. It was instilled in my upbringing, and probably many in my demographic, that i needed to go to post-secondary school to have any shot at a future. If I didn't go, I was a failure and would not amount to anything of value. My worldview removes one half of that boolean from the equation...i can't "not go" so I have to find a way to pay for it. Debt, working 30 hours on-top, scholarships, parents, suckin' dick on the side, whatever...it has to happen to move through that necessary step. That's where the comment that costs have risen so drastically applies - that change in costs from my father's generation makes it that much more challenging to achieve that necessary step and pay for it in order to continue on.

I think my worldview, that school is necessary, is still pretty common for the next generation of my demographic too. Now I know that's not all accurate and I could just become a realtor and not let my kids drink pop... regardless the issue is that there's a problem in the system, and "working hard" cannot fix that for everyone.

[ExtraSlow]

The necessity of University has gone down in the last 15 years, and the price has gone up. The cost/benefit is very different than when boomers were making this decision.

[Xtrema]

I don't understand the "school is too expensive" thing. If you don't want to (or can't) pay for school - then don't go.

Kids don't know any better. Parents insists since it worked for them, so it must work for the kids.

And in the old days, no post secondary = no plum jobs at top tier organizations.

[ExtraSlow]

I think I got good value out of my post-secondary education, but I am not going to be pushing as hard for my kids, because like I said, the cost/benefit isn't nearly the same anymore.

[Buster]

When you're viewing it as singular boolean outside of the system, sure. If you can't afford it, either find a way to afford it or don't go. No argument there.

My comment is in the context of when education is reinforced as a necessary step of the system. It was instilled in my upbringing, and probably many in my demographic, that i needed to go to post-secondary school to have any shot at a future. If I didn't go, I was a failure and would not amount to anything of value. My worldview removes one half of that boolean from the equation...i can't "not go" so I have to find a way to pay for it. Debt, working 30 hours on-top, scholarships, parents, suckin' dick on the side, whatever...it has to happen to move through that necessary step. That's where the comment that costs have risen so drastically applies - that change in costs from my father's generation makes it that much more challenging to achieve that necessary step and pay for it in order to continue on.

I think my worldview, that school is necessary, is still pretty common for the next generation of my demographic too. Now I know that's not all accurate and I could just become a realtor and not let my kids drink pop... regardless the issue is that there's a problem in the system, and "working hard" cannot fix that for everyone.

But you are turning an optional thing into a pretend compulsory thing, and then complaining about it being a costly compulsory. It's not.

[suntan]

If not post-secondary, then what?

Learning computers "on your own" is not feasible anymore.

[Buster]

If not post-secondary, then what?

Learning computers "on your own" is not feasible anymore.

well that there is up to y'all.

[Darkane]

Influencer.

But jokes aside - moving forward, it’s going to be about profit generation in the metaverse.

So .. what kind of services can we have in the Metaverse people will pay for?

Teams 3D, or workplace 3d is an idea of mine. In the metaverse, companies will have meetings in boardrooms. The software used for that can be Workplace 3D. I don’t know how to code it or even start - but I know that’s where we’re going.

[90_Shelby]

I guess the other thing boils down to unless I'm out to lunch. Most of the people I knew growing up, the mom's stayed at home. One income and it worked. Middle class and the parents are retired with money to travel.

Appears, now it does not unless you're heading to the soup kitchen for meals out or there's an onlyfans account live feed running in the afternoons.

People like to harp on 89Coupe about "marrying rich" to get ahead but simply having dual incomes make a big difference in general. Again, this is a choice that people make, stay at home parent and a single income or in some cases, single parent homes (not always a choice), it will be that much tougher to get ahead.

This is a car forum, 42% of us on here like cars and want cool or fast cars but is it worth it if you're simply floating a pile of debt? I don't think it is at all. If you can't afford to save up and pay for the total cost, is it really worth it? I'm sure there are lots of different opinions on this but I once again agree with 89Coupe, other then a mortgage or student loans, people shouldn't have debt or payments.


I don't understand the "school is too expensive" thing. If you don't want to (or can't) pay for school - then don't go.

I agree with Buster on this one as well, you don't need to go to school to be successful but it can definitely help. Personally, I think school should be looked at as an investment in yourself. How much is it going to cost to increase my education and how much additional income will I make once completed.

Everyone will have different opinions on this and there are more then one way to be able to afford the current cost of living that we're all exposed to. People may be more fortunate growing up with wealthy families in affluent neighbourhoods or you might have grown up as a broke ass in the hood like Rage2 or the rest of the NE trash on here. At the end of the day, if you don't feel like you can afford the standard of living you want, quit your bitching and either make more or spend less.

[89coupe]

For clarity, I didn’t marry rich.

My wife worked her ass off in school, got two degrees & worked here way up the ladder.

I was already 15 years in O&G when she first entered the industry. I exited the industry after 22 years.

Neither of us has ever had debt other than a mortgage, which has been paid off for years now.

My M5, paid for cash.

No debt, no problems.