Help me choose my next family sedan

[The Cosworth]

My GTI is getting a little older in the tooth and I'm starting to get the itch for a new car. Looking for some ideas from the group of what to look for. A few requirements that I have:

- 4 doors.
- Newer tech (carplay or wireless carplay, radar cruise).
- Highway comfort / cruiser.
- Quick (i.e. 5'ish 0-60).
- OK handling but I don't need it to be racecar / rough.
- Maintenance and tire costs not ridiculous.
- Don't really care about fuel costs (within reason).

A few initial ideas:

Lexus IS350 / IS500
Audi S5 Fastback
Kia Stinger (not sure what I think of these)
Genesis G70/G80/G90
Acura TLX
BMW 4 series grand coupe
Honda Accord 2.0T (maybe?)
Infiniti Q50S (seem to be getting long in the tooth quickly).
VW Arteon (maybe? Sometimes they look great and sometimes don't look great).
Volvo S60

I don't really like the Audi S4's, RS3 is cool but very expensive, not really a big Mercedes fan. Figure BMW is going to be outside what I'll want to spend.

I'm ok to go 1-3 years old a lease return kind of thing. Would rather be between $40,000 - $50,000.

[ExtraSlow]

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Fast Wagon is correct family car if you don't go with the Kia Stinger.

[Sugarphreak]

VW Arteon (maybe? Sometimes they look great and sometimes don't look great).


What exactly is this doing here Mr. Cos?

I was looking pretty close at the 2017~2021 Macan GTS models before I decided to go new. They seem to be really well priced for the performance punch they deliver.

https://thebmwstore.ca/used/2017-porsche-macan-awd-4dr-gts/WP1AG2A59HLB56228

So they don't drive like a sports car no matter what people say. They are more like a ridiculously powerful and well handling hatchback.

[ExtraSlow]

Have you see how bad the value is on 2 year old cars these days?

If you don't like the wicked wagon I posted above, my top pick is the TLX. Probably $60k OTD for a-spec.

[vengie]

Volvo V90 R

[max_boost]

a newer GTI :werd: :burnout:

[JustinL]

Have you see how bad the value is on 2 year old cars these days?

If you don't like the wicked wagon I posted above, my top pick is the TLX. Probably $60k OTD for a-spec.

Can you give me the link to the taycan 4 CT? I can't find it on the Canadian site.

[ExtraSlow]

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s-cross-turismo/
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[Masked Bandit]

The Acura checks a lot of those boxes but I believe the cargo capacity is lacking? I don't know much about Volvo but I've always thought the S5 fastbacks were very nice machines. Lexus will get you the same reliability as the Acura, I'd stay away from the Korean stuff myself.

[JustinL]

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s-cross-turismo/
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That's not the same car though.

[brucebanner]

Audi allroad

Or if you want a suv, can't recall which member (eliptix?) but made a thread about buying a lightly used BMW + tune.. Seems like a great combo

[ExtraSlow]

That's not the same car though.

I don't know. I'm not a real Porsche guy. They all look the same to me.
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[JustinL]

The reason I asked is that the first one you posted is more than 50k cheaper than the S with minimal luxury tax.

[ExtraSlow]

probably USA site? I dunno. I'm shitposting, don't expect high levels of accuracy from me here.

[JustinL]

They used to sell that one in Canada and it was a bargain, relatively. But it's been gone from Canada for the last year.

[vengie]

I recommend every stop taycan anything ES posts on here seriously.

[ExtraSlow]

I finna taycan dis person-Lee.

[ganesh]

They used to sell that one in Canada and it was a bargain, relatively. But it's been gone from Canada for the last year.

It is from the US site ,
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-cross-turismo-models/taycan-4-cross-turismo/

[msommers]

Volvo S60 or 90 is my vote.

Or the V series if a wagon is an option.

I can't picture you driving a Lexus lol

[ercchry]

Needs more pain…

Some sort of Jag, or Alfa Giulia, or just double your budget and wait for shak to get bored of the M3 :rofl:

[Gman.45]

Volvo S60 or 90 is my vote.

Or the V series if a wagon is an option.

I can't picture you driving a Lexus lol

You take that back!

LC500 (we've had 2) - best car I've owned, and best I test drove.

IS500 - worth it for the V8 alone IMO, plus the car is pretty nice all round. 1/2 dozen under 70$k on AT, 2023 and 2024 models.

[flipstah]

Toyota Camry and walk away from the Germans.

[riander5]

B58 loaded M340 is a solid choice. Wicked engine and platform, no pig nose, engine reliable enough for toyota to use.

That IS500 would be sweet too.. If you care more about potential residual value and driver experience, the M340 stomps it in every performance metric available, as well as fuel economy, as well as price.

But my real pick... its a few years older...

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[Gman.45]

M340 is a great choice too, I'd be done. M240i or new M2 is on my list for spring, these cars are fantastic, and I'm waiting to here what BJ has to say when he's driven his new M2 more. But for a sedan, ya, M340 is very nice, but the V8 sound from the IS500 is worth the price alone IMO, even with the negatives around holding value/etc.

[riander5]

M340 is a great choice too, I'd be done. M240i or new M2 is on my list for spring, these cars are fantastic, and I'm waiting to here what BJ has to say when he's driven his new M2 more. But for a sedan, ya, M340 is very nice, but the V8 sound from the IS500 is worth the price alone IMO, even with the negatives around holding value/etc.

Oh yea I meant it might actually hold value. Moreso than an m340. Its basically an IS-F for all intents and purposes, and the lord knows lexus isnt moving a ton of em.

[max_boost]

The m340 is very nice to drive
Very nice
For a no bs Lexus car experience C4S is your guy

[vengie]

I finna taycan dis person-Lee.

:love:

[XylathaneGTR]

You already have it on your list, but I would say the Volvo S60/V60 is in line with what you're looking at and is a nice alternative to ze Germans. 3 (almost 4) years in, I've enjoyed my V90 experience so far. Minimal issues, though I'll be honest a few little things I'm concerned about as it comes out of warranty.

[The Cosworth]

Thanks everyone, sorry had a busy couple days of work.

- The Porsche is really pretty but I think it is too much money.
- I did some reading on the Accord 2.0T and I think it is a bit too oldman.
- What's wrong with the Arteon? Haha. Seems quick, its a VAG product, haha.
- I like the TLX / Integra / Integra Type S but they seem a bit out of price range right now.
- Volvo is catching my eye.
- BMW is nice, maybe just get another Blue BMW to join the M3....
- The GTI is getting too small, I want something more mid-sized. That's why Im thinking more 5 series size.
- Camry is too slow.
- Lexus I think the IS might be too small but more looking at the ES. A sporty ES Im not sure is cost effective.
- I tried to take a look at the S5 Audi at VW Okotoks but they've not been awesome to deal with.....

[dirtsniffer]

B58

[Euro_Trash]

+1 for Volvo. We've got a V60 CC and it's awesome.

[Xtrema]

Thanks everyone, sorry had a busy couple days of work.
- The GTI is getting too small, I want something more mid-sized. That's why Im thinking more 5 series size.


S5 isn't that much bigger either. You are definitely into ES/Accord size wise.

May be this monstrosity?
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or its wagon sibiling?
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[The Cosworth]

I mean I'd love to own a Crown. LOL.

I don't think that would even qualify as remotely quick though.

[Team_Mclaren]

OP: 40-50k budget on a sedan
Beyond: 150k wagon.

[ExtraSlow]

OP: 40-50k budget on a sedan
Beyond: 150k wagon.

This is the way.

[SKR]

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[ThePenIsMightier]

OP: 40-50k budget on a sedan
Beyond: 150k wagon.

GTC4-Lusso.
Oh, wait... You said $150k and by the time I typed that, the depreciation reduced them to $50k...

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Trackhawk.

[bjstare]

Lexus IS500 would be a good choice for a reliable semi-fun DD with super low cost of ownership.. but if it’s too small, it’s too small. There’s no such thing as a sporty Lexus ES… they’re fwd sofas. S5 would be ok but cost of ownership would be a consideration, and they aren’t that big.

Get a used Volvo wagon. If you hunt you can probably find an older (2016-2018ish) v60 polestar for your budget, they’re sick.

[ExtraSlow]

The IS is no larger than a golf on the interior. Good car, but small.

[riander5]

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[ExtraSlow]

Acceptable.

[C4S]

IS 500 V8 is amazing .. if able to get one.. put good snow tires, great for winter!

[Xtrema]

I mean I'd love to own a Crown. LOL.

I don't think that would even qualify as remotely quick though.

- Mid/Full Size Sedan
- $50K
- Quick

I have a feeling you can only get 2 out of 3 of those conditions.

May be a Lexus GS350? But then you'll miss out on new tech and have to retrofit to get CP/AA.

[Ukyo8]

Elantra N seems to check all the boxes :dunno:
plus amazing fuel economy is a nice bonus, it really does it all

https://i.postimg.cc/cLvtbdrB/IMG-3568.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/LX3J1Xb2/IMG-3898.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/K8C3XCTS/IMG-3876.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ydHJx9nL/IMG-3877.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g0RXG4yw/IMG-3879.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/vHq6h4Hm/6-F462615-0983-4-C8-E-8-EB1-3372912-B3726.jpg

[bjstare]

If you can live with fwd, Elantra N is an awesome suggestion.

[Team_Mclaren]

Where do people find an IS500 for 50k, I'd like one please

[heavyD]

BMW 3/4 series with B58 & ZF8. Best performing, most reliable powertrain combination available from any brand at the price point.

[Gman.45]

Where do people find an IS500 for 50k, I'd like one please

Fair point, picking up the thread mid way through and not seeing the $50k limit disqualifies the IS (plus the size apparently too for the OP). I've seen a few in the low 60s, 13$k more than the 50k limit, in recent days on autotrader, and there is a 2023 FSport with 7000km for $67 right now on AT.

Anyone suggest the new WRX? I know it isn't a popular option for anyone/anything, and that the "sedan-ish" version with an auto trans has the beloved constant velocity trans, which is required to get all the "tech" crap. Still, reviews on the CVT have been...while not great, at least not awful, and if you don't care about the babysitting tech, and will take a manual, IMO it's at least something to look at. I haven't been in a Golf in decades, but I test drove one of the new WRX manuals, and it had reasonable space. Well, well under the $50k budget too.

[Team_Mclaren]

Btw, for 60+k, a stock 340XI would walk a IS500 all day long

[Xtrema]

Btw, for 60+k, a stock 340XI would walk a IS500 all day long

You are buying it for exhaust notes, little else.

[bjstare]

You are buying it for exhaust notes, little else.

Yeah the IS500 differentiators are basically limited to lovely sound and very low TCO compared to the germans.

[The Cosworth]

I drove a '19 VW Arteon R line a couple nights ago. Actually surprisingly quick and nice. Might be a bit bigger than I need but pretty surprised by it. And it was $35k so well within budget.


- Mid/Full Size Sedan
- $50K
- Quick

I have a feeling you can only get 2 out of 3 of those conditions.

May be a Lexus GS350? But then you'll miss out on new tech and have to retrofit to get CP/AA.

New for sure I agree, but I don't think a 3-5 year old car should be hard. Maybe Im out to lunch.



Elantra N seems to check all the boxes :dunno:
plus amazing fuel economy is a nice bonus, it really does it all



If you can live with fwd, Elantra N is an awesome suggestion.

Don't really like it honestly.


BMW 3/4 series with B58 & ZF8. Best performing, most reliable powertrain combination available from any brand at the price point.

I might have to check one out.

[gpomp]

Elantra N seems to check all the boxes :dunno:
plus amazing fuel economy is a nice bonus, it really does it all


+1

I rented one of these and it's easily one of the best cars I've driven in years.

[npham]

One thing everyone is glossing over is that OP wants a mid-sized/full-sized sedan and a 3 series is basically the size of a Civic inside. I was in a new M3 recently, and there's no way I'd get into one now (sorry Shak, you'll need to sell your M3C to someone else next month).

[bjstare]

Unless your kids are 6 feet tall and/or you're carpooling to hockey with big bags of gear, size is overrated. My kids are young still (3, 5), but my M2 is big enough for 99% of what we do. If I could afford it, I'd consider replacing it with a G80 M3 so I had rear doors, but that's not even for ingress/egress purposes, it's just cause I don't like huge ass coupe doors.

[Xtrema]

New for sure I agree, but I don't think a 3-5 year old car should be hard. Maybe Im out to lunch.

GTI rear leg room (35.6")

Off lease 340 (35.2") /S4 (35.7") /C43 (32") all falls into your price point but they are not mid size, they are compact, just like your GTI.

540xi is within range of your $50K (+- $5K) but they are all from east coast.


Baller
https://www.automaxx.com/inventory/Used-2018-BMW-7_Series-750Li_xDrive-WBA7F2C56JG423994/

[Gman.45]

Btw, for 60+k, a stock 340XI would walk a IS500 all day long


You are buying it for exhaust notes, little else.

The sound experience with the IS500 is impossible to beat with a stock car IMO, if it sounds anything like my LC did. Doesn't matter anyway as the 340 is even more expensive than the IS500, which is price disqualified as has been pointed out already.

Anyone bring up any of the Cadillac CTxx cars? Something like this - https://www.autotrader.ca/a/cadillac/ct5-v/notre-dame-des-pins/quebec/5_60750771_ct200425115923837/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&ursrc=hl&orup=1_98_1318&pc=S6H%202S5&sprx=-1&modalXS=1

[relyt92]

4.9s 0-60, 5.6L V8, Japanese AWD muscle sedan basically. No carplay but also a lower price point than others. Buy it so I stop wanting to go look at it. https://www.hyattinfiniticalgary.com/inventory/used-2015-infiniti-q70-v8-5-6l-sport-no-accidents-rare-adaptive-cruise-all-wheel-drive-4dr-car-jn1ay1ar2fm160045/

[The Cosworth]

Drove a coworkers V60 Wagon over the weekend. Very nice. He might sell it but is being cagey about how much and exactly when. LOL. I could definitely buy that.
I think I have it narrowed down to a Infinity Q50/Q70 (need to drive one still).
Arteon
V60/V70
S5 Sportback.

I saw a bunch of reviews of the new Civic SI and it seems legit fun. I'm worried it would be exhausting and loud on the highway. But the rest of it seems wicked.


4.9s 0-60, 5.6L V8, Japanese AWD muscle sedan basically. No carplay but also a lower price point than others. Buy it so I stop wanting to go look at it. https://www.hyattinfiniticalgary.com/inventory/used-2015-infiniti-q70-v8-5-6l-sport-no-accidents-rare-adaptive-cruise-all-wheel-drive-4dr-car-jn1ay1ar2fm160045/

Shit, I like that.


GTI rear leg room (35.6")

Off lease 340 (35.2") /S4 (35.7") /C43 (32") all falls into your price point but they are not mid size, they are compact, just like your GTI.

540xi is within range of your $50K (+- $5K) but they are all from east coast.

Baller
https://www.automaxx.com/inventory/Used-2018-BMW-7_Series-750Li_xDrive-WBA7F2C56JG423994/

Not as much the legroom that's the issue. The issue is I think the wheelbase in the car being a bit 'darty' on the highway. And now that I'm driving a lot more my personal vehicle (since I don't have a work truck anymore) and golf clubs with push cart and that don't fit in the hatch. Plus, if I was to get another GTI, I'd just keep mine. That BMW is nice. Wife would kill me if I got white though.

[riander5]

VW Arteon? Lol

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[The Cosworth]

VW Arteon? Lol

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Don't like the look of those very much honestly.

Yeah the Arteon was actually quite nice. I could see me tuning it. Plus I like the look of them.

[jutes]

4.9s 0-60, 5.6L V8, Japanese AWD muscle sedan basically. No carplay but also a lower price point than others. Buy it so I stop wanting to go look at it. https://www.hyattinfiniticalgary.com/inventory/used-2015-infiniti-q70-v8-5-6l-sport-no-accidents-rare-adaptive-cruise-all-wheel-drive-4dr-car-jn1ay1ar2fm160045/

The 5.6L has issues with cyl 7 in that year, well it did in the Armada/QX80. Can't imagine the engines are different.

[riander5]

Don't like the look of those very much honestly.

Yeah the Arteon was actually quite nice. I could see me tuning it. Plus I like the look of them.

You keep mentioning the Arteon even though it is by far the least sporty sedan. Not even remotely sporty. I sense you are going to get an Arteon no matter what anyone says.

That being said I won't stop posting pics of great sedans to sway you.

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[brucebanner]

Definitely cool, have to import it though.


That being said I won't stop posting pics of great sedans to sway you.

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[Xtrema]

Not as much the legroom that's the issue. The issue is I think the wheelbase in the car being a bit 'darty' on the highway. And now that I'm driving a lot more my personal vehicle (since I don't have a work truck anymore) and golf clubs with push cart and that don't fit in the hatch. Plus, if I was to get another GTI, I'd just keep mine. That BMW is nice. Wife would kill me if I got white though.

Then C43/340i/S5 Sportback are back in play if all you care is wheelbase.

All have 200mm more than GTI but 200mm less than next class up.

[ExtraSlow]

waaaaay back, the avis in Calgary got (by accident I assume) one of the V8 pontiac sedans. I got it for a trip to kananaskis. FUn car, traction control works, I did my best ken block impression on the sibbald road and I didn't go down any ravines. Good times.

[riander5]

waaaaay back, the avis in Calgary got (by accident I assume) one of the V8 pontiac sedans. I got it for a trip to kananaskis. FUn car, traction control works, I did my best ken block impression on the sibbald road and I didn't go down any ravines. Good times.

I had an 04 pontiac GTO some years back. Wonder if you had the plain old g8 GT or the GTO's real (kind of) successor in NA - The GXP?

I loved that old GTO.. would love a chevy SS or G8 GXP too. Just to be different.

Nice thing about the latter 2 is you dont need to import parts from australia from them (presumably)

[Gman.45]

Friend of mine in the USA - former F15E Strike Eagle pilot and was then a Major in charge of a unit using drones to hunt people when I was down in/around Vegas hanging out with him, had a 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP. He was a huge Pontiac fan, had a couple Firebirds tricked out (2002 and an LT1 1997), a couple other V8 Pontiacs...but the GXP was what we drove around in mostly, and it was a GREAT car. IF there was a newer version of that around, I'd be driving one myself.

Too bad you dislike the Cadillacs Cosworth, decent bang/$ and they don't seem hard to find or source, and lots of different models/configs easily come in at or under your $50k top end of your budget.

Looking at the BMW 340i xDrive, Audi S5/etc, C43 and other Mercedes options...in your shoes I'd stretch to get one of the off lease BMWs, that is a seriously nice car the more reviews I see/read.

[jutes]

Anything with a B58.

/thread.

[riander5]

Anything with a B58.

/thread.

Ineos? Be careful what you say with your broad comment! haha

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[tonytiger55]

Honda Civic Type R. Not really a sedan...but but but hear me out....

Its a 4 door. Its comfortable to be daily. Reliable.. (its a Honda, it will outlive your grandchildren). Can fit four people.
If you need to put your foot down and get somewhere... its got a F1 DNA under the hood.

John Cena drives one daily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU4L3MFJ80Y

Alternative would be the Accord, but go for the 1.5T. That being said I noticed for the 2024 a lot of the higher trims are hybrid.

Lexus... its small on the inside.
Hyundai. Stay away.
Acura would be the next go to. But why drive a Acura when you can have a Type R?

[relyt92]

The 5.6L has issues with cyl 7 in that year, well it did in the Armada/QX80. Can't imagine the engines are different.

That's too bad, I hadn't heard of that before but also haven't looked much into the car. Shows a pending sale now, that you OP?

[The Cosworth]

You keep mentioning the Arteon even though it is by far the least sporty sedan. Not even remotely sporty. I sense you are going to get an Arteon no matter what anyone says.

That being said I won't stop posting pics of great sedans to sway you.

No I keep mentioning Arteon because people keep saying no Arteon but they don't say why. Haha.

Actually I'm mostly leaning to buy the V60 from my co-worker.

[QUOTE=tonytiger55;5158836]Honda Civic Type R. Not really a sedan...but but but hear me out....

Its a 4 door. Its comfortable to be daily. Reliable.. (its a Honda, it will outlive your grandchildren). Can fit four people.
If you need to put your foot down and get somewhere... its got a F1 DNA under the hood.

John Cena drives one daily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU4L3MFJ80Y

Alternative would be the Accord, but go for the 1.5T. That being said I noticed for the 2024 a lot of the higher trims are hybrid.

Lexus... its small on the inside.
Hyundai. Stay away.
Acura would be the next go to. But why drive a Acura when you can have a Type R?

I thought the Accord with the 1.5T would be too slow honestly, but I actually don't hate them. I've also watched about a million Civic SI reviews. I really like it but not sure it would be 'daily' enough. I want it a bit more comfortable than my GTI.


I had an 04 pontiac GTO some years back. Wonder if you had the plain old g8 GT or the GTO's real (kind of) successor in NA - The GXP?

I loved that old GTO.. would love a chevy SS or G8 GXP too. Just to be different.

Nice thing about the latter 2 is you dont need to import parts from australia from them (presumably)

Those feel more harsh / fast sedan than I'm looking for. I'm not sure it is the highway cruiser I'd want.

[tonytiger55]

Test drive the 1.5T. I thought it would be too. Back in the 90s my late father had a 1.6L Peugeot 405 (sedan) in the UK. My god that so under powered. Even driving mid range hatches in that engine range were hardly acceptable.

Engine tech has changed a lot. I was skeptical on the online reviews. Why would Honda put a wheel powered hamster in its cars? I get it now. That hamster is on cold showers and protein shakes. Much has changed.
One thing to point out and you might already know. As one gets older, the body hurts on longer drives. Different manufacturers take this into account now. I recall having this convo with a old coworker who was a old sales rep. He said pay attention to how comfortable it is.

Volvo is not a bad choice. But look at the equivalent in terms of tech. How twitchy is the self drive and start stop traffic functions?

[Team_Mclaren]

Volvo is not a bad choice. But look at the equivalent in terms of tech. How twitchy is the self drive and start stop traffic functions?

I wouldnt say it's any better or worse than all other German makers. But then I rarely use self drive (pilot assist) and I turn engine start/stop off.

[msommers]

You take that back!

LC500 (we've had 2) - best car I've owned, and best I test drove.

IS500 - worth it for the V8 alone IMO, plus the car is pretty nice all round. 1/2 dozen under 70$k on AT, 2023 and 2024 models.

I'm all for a LC500, or frankly any of the newer coupes.

As a family hauler full time, eh..

[ThePenIsMightier]

... and I turn engine start/stop off.

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[The Cosworth]

Test drive the 1.5T. I thought it would be too. Back in the 90s my late father had a 1.6L Peugeot 405 (sedan) in the UK. My god that so under powered. Even driving mid range hatches in that engine range were hardly acceptable.

Engine tech has changed a lot. I was skeptical on the online reviews. Why would Honda put a wheel powered hamster in its cars? I get it now. That hamster is on cold showers and protein shakes. Much has changed.
One thing to point out and you might already know. As one gets older, the body hurts on longer drives. Different manufacturers take this into account now. I recall having this convo with a old coworker who was a old sales rep. He said pay attention to how comfortable it is.

Volvo is not a bad choice. But look at the equivalent in terms of tech. How twitchy is the self drive and start stop traffic functions?

Ugh - I never considered that it was me that was the one getting older and less comfortable.... haha.

[tonytiger55]

I wouldnt say it's any better or worse than all other German makers. But then I rarely use self drive (pilot assist) and I turn engine start/stop off.

I turn off the stop/start too. Its annoying.
But the radar cruise control on stop start traffic is a god send. Just set it and it auto brakes and accelerates in traffic. I only bought my CRV because of the heated steering wheel. When I discovered this it was like wtf? This is awesome.

I don't like Toyotas or VW lane assist. Its too twitchy. Though it may have been updated in the past two years. On the long drives I personally love it. Im not tired as much as im mostly managing the car. The 10 hour drive to Portland was easy.
Anyone buying a new car I advise them to look at this feature more. Its great.

Im actually curious on the Volvos too now. I wonder how they drive...

[msommers]

You already have it on your list, but I would say the Volvo S60/V60 is in line with what you're looking at and is a nice alternative to ze Germans. 3 (almost 4) years in, I've enjoyed my V90 experience so far. Minimal issues, though I'll be honest a few little things I'm concerned about as it comes out of warranty.

What issues and concerns do you have? I'd really like our next vehicle to be a Volvo.

[gpomp]

Volvo is near the very bottom in reliability according to CR. But anecdotally, I'm sure they're fine.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

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[msommers]

Porsche being that high up on the list blows me away

[Neil4Speed]

It feels a bit expensive considering the original architecture of the car goes back to 2013..., but the GS350 is/was a fabulous driving car. Great interior, nicely designed, refined. That engine was sublime too.


Porsche being that high up on the list blows me away

The build quality is really great. They are very rarely innovators especially on non performance related technology which means less to go wrong. They also have a lower diversity of models and have long refresh/update cycles (don't rush products out).

I was surprised to see Mini so high... they have been at the bottom of the list forever.

I am curious as to what the real-life delta is between the top and the bottom is. I feel that modern cars have got pretty reliable, unlike say 20+ years ago.

[gpomp]

Porsche being that high up on the list blows me away

Porsche has actually dropped a bit from where they were a few years ago:

https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/small/public/legacy/image/2016_vds_rank_1.jpg?itok=l7-nJguI https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/small/public/legacy/image/17_vds_chart_1.jpg?itok=4mYTHEL3 https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/small/public/legacy/image/2018016a.jpg?itok=7ulzwrhh https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/small/public/image/2020-05/2019%20VDS%20Chart%201.PNG?itok=bZJ-YDnD

[bjstare]

Wow, Mercedes really shit the bed as of late.

[you&me]

Wow, Mercedes really shit the bed as of late.

Aren't these surveys based on # of consumer complaints, i.e. everything from "my wireless carplay cut out once" to "my engine blew up" counts equally?

If that's the case, I could see a scenario where Mercedes dropping down the rankings would be due to a bunch of new A Class and GLB buyers having out-sized expectations because "muh Mercedez".

[heavyD]

Wow, Mercedes really shit the bed as of late.

They have dropped even further from 2019 shown above from JD Power. Audi as well. When Jaguar's have less issues, you know your QC is not where it needs to be.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

[XylathaneGTR]

What issues and concerns do you have? I'd really like our next vehicle to be a Volvo.

I own a 2018 T6 (2L twin-charged, both turbo & supercharged) with the polestar tune, and CPO warranty expires in a few months.

While this engine configuration has been around for a few years now (introduced in 2015 in the 2016MY XC90) and most issues were worked out by 2018, i'm still a little cautious of longer-term reliability. Perhaps this is my boomer mentality of "its more complicated so there's more shit to break;" If i'm honest I haven't heard about much w.r.t. engine reliability issues from the 2018+MYs T6 to really back those fears up; 2017s and earlier still had piston-ring/oil-consumption issues and should be avoided.

Within my model year and product line, I have read of greater occurrences of gauge cluster screen modules outright failing and requiring full replacement (my biggest concern about owning a car with a buncha screens), cabin AC component failures requiring a full dash-out rebuild to replace, and rear air suspension component failures. Mine is relatively low mileage and i'm not like, worried worried about anything (nor has the car given me any signs of looming issues), but most of these failures seem to be no-warning surprises and as warranty expires I have a little underlying fear that it will turn into a money-bomb, but I guess that's the risk of car ownership in general.

More recent models, both with the B-series hybrid engines and with the switch from in-house "Sensus" OS to a Google-based "Android Auto" OS seem to have a lot more bullshit issues, quirks, and failures pop-up which explains Volvo's recent drop in consumer reliability ratings. Honestly, that did factor into our decision to replace my wife's lexus SUV with another lexus SUV instead of a volvo SUV.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Haven't seen the Chrysler 300 suggested yet. You can easily get one a couple years old with the 5.7/8spd for your budget and the V8 is reasonably quick for such a big car. If you want more go, get a 6.4 SRT that's a few years older for the same price.

[The Cosworth]

So drove a new 2023 Sport 3.3L Genesis G70. I kind of hate how much I like that car. A bit over budget. Going to try and re-drive the V60 T6 and G70 closer back to back here and get a good butt dyno going.

The G70 includes valet service for services and 5 year included maintenance. 2 year lease is 4.9% which with selling my GTI means I might end up only having less than 6 months of payments over those 2 years.

117111
117112

[gpomp]

Quick google search shows G70 has 1.2" less headroom and 0.2" less leg room than a GTI. G70 is longer though.

[The Cosworth]

Quick google search shows G70 has 1.2" less headroom and 0.2" less leg room than a GTI. G70 is longer though.

Yeah the legroom isn't the issue. It is the wheelbase and the trunk that I mainly want something 'bigger' for.

Also.... not sure if you remember but me and my kin aren't vertically blessed. :rofl:

[gpomp]

G70 is a good choice. I would imagine it driving much better than the Volvo based on the architectures of the two cars.

[jutes]

Has the E550/CLS550 been mentioned yet? I remember it received high praise in other threads.

[heavyD]

My wife has a GV70 and we had a loaner G70 for a few days. You can definitely feel the G70 is older design as the interior isn't as well laid out and the overall quality not as good. As much as I think the GV70 goes head to head with similar German offerings and actually doing some things better, I don't think it's the case for the G70. Also it appears the G70 is not going to see a second generation due to poor sales so you would be purchasing a model soon to be discontinued.

[The Cosworth]

Well shit's getting real. I listed my car on Kijiji yesterday more just to see what kind of interest I'd get. Sold it in an hour. Currently driving my work truck but need to find a new car. LOL.


My wife has a GV70 and we had a loaner G70 for a few days. You can definitely feel the G70 is older design as the interior isn't as well laid out and the overall quality not as good. As much as I think the GV70 goes head to head with similar German offerings and actually doing some things better, I don't think it's the case for the G70. Also it appears the G70 is not going to see a second generation due to poor sales so you would be purchasing a model soon to be discontinued.

Interesting, that's good to know. If I go new I think I'd be leasing this one just based on the brand and possibility of hit or miss quality and service.

[The Cosworth]

Has the E550/CLS550 been mentioned yet? I remember it received high praise in other threads.

So funny you should mention that..... LOL.

I pick this up tonight.

[max_boost]

Congrats cos
That looks like a clean Benz mobile
Enjoy dude

[brucebanner]

So funny you should mention that..... LOL.

I pick this up tonight.

I had this car saved in my favorites!

Nice pickup, I've heard they respond really well to a tune :devil: