Bmw vs Audi

[jabjab]

I'm in the market for a 4 door reliable used car that I can have a little fun with. With a baby on the way I will need space for a car seat now.

I didn't want to spend over 30k as the wife needs a newer car as well. I've narrowed it down to 3 vehicles:

1. 2015 to 2017 Audi s3 - I realize that it might be hard to find a decent km one on a 30k budget but they are quick and easy to tune but rear seat cramped

2. 2015 to 2017 bmw 335xi. I have never owned a BMW but from my understanding the N55 is more reliable. Good factory power and rear seats and I like the steering wheel.

3. 2017 A4. The slowest of them all but definitely fits the budget and alot more room than the s3

Anyone have any other ideas or reasons to stay way from these cars?

[ExtraSlow]

Whichever has the largest rear seat. Those are not large cars.

[Kloubek]

Do you have any interest in tuning it? If so, the A4 responds very well to the APR software. It's probably the best car of the bunch, with the nicest interior, imo.

Having a smaller back seat in the S3 isn't really a big problem as long as you can fit a car seat in it easy enough. Kids don't need a ton of space for a while. If you don't need or want the extra space, it makes some sense too.

Can't speak to the BMW, but reliability is always on my mind with that brand especially.

[jabjab]

Do you have any interest in tuning it? If so, the A4 responds very well to the APR software. It's probably the best car of the bunch, with the nicest interior, imo.

I'm opening to tuning for sure. I'm coming from a track built TT but I don't want to go as deep as I did with that. Tune, downpipes and that's it really.

The a4 would need to be an s line cause the steering wheel is alot nicer (yea I got thing with steering wheels)

[Strider]

flipstah can tell you about the excellent reliability of that vintage of s3

[03ozwhip]

flipstah can tell you about the excellent reliability of that vintage of s3

Lol ya thats what u was going to say. I have never owned an audi based on all of the horror stories I heard. I've owned 3 N55 BMWs and loved them all.

They do have oil filter housing gasket issues that cost about 800 to fix and water pumps need to be changed around 100k which is another 800 or so.

Keep it maintained and I believe they are way more reliable than audis.

[heavyD]

If reliability is important go BMW especially with later models. If your budget allows, I would try to get into a BMW with a B58 which will probably go down as one of the best 6 cylinder engines ever.

[bjstare]

I'd probably go for the BMW as well. I haven't done my research, but I think you can probably make more reliable power from an n55 than whatever 2L is in the A4. Both are the same size. Both likely have similar running costs (e.g., water pumps are wear items on them). +100 on getting a B58 bmw.

If your wife is >5' tall, the S3 will be very cramped/not usable with a rear facing seat.

[flipstah]

flipstah can tell you about the excellent reliability of that vintage of s3

Shit hit the fan after 175k km

It was like a hockey stick on upkeep; magnetic suspension leaked, fuel system issues, carbon buildup is super common in this engine, front diff leaked, two water pumps because the thermostat is plastic

Back seat is cramped and the trunk is tiny

I’m at 196k km

[killramos]

If reliability is any semblance of concern you do not buy an out of warranty Audi.

[flipstah]

If reliability is any semblance of concern you do not buy an out of warranty Audi.

QFT

Just be a good boy and buy a Camry V6

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

You said reliable in the first sentence and that should have ruled out all three of your options. Get a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.

[Tik-Tok]

1) Reliable
2) Used
3) German

You only get to pick two of those.

[pf0sh0]

i was in the same position as you - the S3 with a rear facing car seat = barely any room in the front passenger.

I ended up getting a late gen SQ5 (2014 - 2017), which can be had in your price range, fairly reliable engine with some known common issues, but nothing wild. It fits the car seat well with room up front and pretty fun to drive with tonnes of aftermarket support (for e.g. did a stage 1 tune and intake for fun haha). Plus its easier taking baby in and out of a car seat from an SUV versus a car or maybe I just have a fucked back.

edit: To add, not sure if this is of value since you're also looking for a new car for your wife, but we traded in our 2021 Q5 for a new Tiguan as it had way more space, reasonably priced, nice styling/ driving (in our opinion of the available options in that range).

[bjstare]

If reliability is any semblance of concern you do not buy an out of warranty German car

ftfy

[gpomp]

I have 3 out of warranty German cars and they're all great!

[bjstare]

I have 3 out of warranty German cars and they're all great!

Notice there's no reference to reliability in this post.

[riander5]

Gotta go a year or two newer and get a BMW 340 w/ B58. No other engines will touch it for speed and reliability. I've said it before, but TOYOTA uses it in the Supra. That should tell you enough that it's a great engine.


If reliability is important go BMW especially with later models. If your budget allows, I would try to get into a BMW with a B58 which will probably go down as one of the best 6 cylinder engines ever.

This ^

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If reliability is any semblance of concern you do not buy an out of warranty Audi.

True, Audi's are like the non electric electric car. Purchase and once warranty is up dispose of

[jabjab]

i was in the same position as you - the S3 with a rear facing car seat = barely any room in the front passenger.

I ended up getting a late gen SQ5 (2014 - 2017), which can be had in your price range, fairly reliable engine with some known common issues, but nothing wild. It fits the car seat well with room up front and pretty fun to drive with tonnes of aftermarket support (for e.g. did a stage 1 tune and intake for fun haha). Plus its easier taking baby in and out of a car seat from an SUV versus a car or maybe I just have a fucked back.

edit: To add, not sure if this is of value since you're also looking for a new car for your wife, but we traded in our 2021 Q5 for a new Tiguan as it had way more space, reasonably priced, nice styling/ driving (in our opinion of the available options in that range).

The second car we need is an SUV for her and l did have my eyes on the 2017 sq5 but was worried about their reliability. We test drove the tiguan and it was good but I felt it was priced too high for what you get but we were looking at the dealship price. We might revisit the tiguan as the trunk was great size and its not overly wide so it should fit in the smaller garage fine.

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You said reliable in the first sentence and that should have ruled out all three of your options. Get a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.

Awd is a must, our new place is in an area where there are lots of hills. Camry is nice but I don't like it for myself

[flipstah]

If you want an SQ5, don't be concerned about reliability. It won't be.

RAV4 is boring and it works. It's the Buckley's of vehicles.

[03ozwhip]

All I can say is, I love my BMWs, but sometimes like the look and interior more in the audi, just not enough to buy one.

[Swank]

Be aware that neither come with working signal lights.

[bjstare]

Be aware that neither come with working signal lights.

No word of a lie, both rear signals on my BMW have intermittent issues. And the lights have already been replaced once :rofl:

[msommers]

Faulty signal lights are 1% of the problem. The remaining 99% is driver laziness.

[pf0sh0]

The Tiquan and SQ5 fit in a duplex sized 20x20 garage if that helps.

[Xtrema]

I'm sure this thread ends in a couple of pages where he'll buy Cos's E550.

[03ozwhip]

No word of a lie, both rear signals on my BMW have intermittent issues. And the lights have already been replaced once :rofl:

I have fixed and or changed every exterior bulb in my 335 lol rear tails do seem to do intermittent wire burning, found that interesting lol

[Tik-Tok]

They cheapest out on the wiring because they knew the owners would never notice.

[jabjab]

The Tiquan and SQ5 fit in a duplex sized 20x20 garage if that helps.

19 feet 2 inches wide and 20ft deep over hear. I had to compromise due to land coverage issues with power lines.. I won't be parking in the garage anyways, giving the space for my mom's juke and wife's tbd vehicle. She has an x3 now

I'm parking on the street so I hope both the bmw or Audi start ok in the dead of winter or both will allow for an automatic starter

[tirebob]

For close to your budget you could go with an Audi SQ5... Small SUV but fast as fuck for a small SUV. Way more room for the kid and all the shit that you have to pack with them. Win win!

[jabjab]

For close to your budget you could go with an Audi SQ5... Small SUV but fast as fuck for a small SUV. Way more room for the kid and all the shit that you have to pack with them. Win win!

The wife likes the sq5! It's between that and the tiguan I'm thinking for her. I don't my daily to be an SUV tho well take her car on outings with the kid and the dogs. Mine is just for the kid haha

[jwslam]

I will need space for a car seat now.?
Also what stroller are you packing?

[riander5]

You're picking a few of the most unreliable cars possible. Godspeed

Edit: Could probably get an X3m40 instead of an sq5. But you seem determined to get an exploding audi

[94boosted]

Gotta go a year or two newer and get a BMW 340 w/ B58. No other engines will touch it for speed and reliability. I've said it before, but TOYOTA uses it in the Supra. That should tell you enough that it's a great engine.



No you don't, the cross over year from N55 to B58 was 2015 so the 2016+ MY BMW 340i's will all have the B58, granted there are like four different iterations of the B58, but it will still be a B58.

OP, from your list I would hands down be going with the 340i w/ B58. After owning a 335i with the N54 I vowed to never buy another BMW again, then I did some reading on the B58 and just how good it actually is, picked up my 340i 2.5 years ago and have been very impressed. Enough so to buy another B58 powered car :rofl:

I just recently sold mine but during the time I had it, it was faultless.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

2017+ for the 2 series, 2016+ for the 3 series, 2018+ for the X3 and 2019+ for the X5 in terms of BXX motors for OP.

[jabjab]

Also what stroller are you packing?

I'm new to this as it's my first child but wifey wants an uppababy which folds up nicely but apparently the travel one is super compact and works just as well.

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No you don't, the cross over year from N55 to B58 was 2015 so the 2016+ MY BMW 340i's will all have the B58, granted there are like four different iterations of the B58, but it will still be a B58.

OP, from your list I would hands down be going with the 340i w/ B58. After owning a 335i with the N54 I vowed to never buy another BMW again, then I did some reading on the B58 and just how good it actually is, picked up my 340i 2.5 years ago and have been very impressed. Enough so to buy another B58 powered car :rofl:

I just recently sold mine but during the time I had it, it was faultless.

I'd love the 340i but I think it's out of my price range. I've never owned a BMW so I'm not familiar with them. I've read great things about the b58

[94boosted]

I'd love the 340i but I think it's out of my price range. I've never owned a BMW so I'm not familiar with them. I've read great things about the b58

Just keep in mind that with the F30 generation the 335i only went up to 2015, 2016+ was renamed to the 340i to coincide with the change from the N55 to the B58.

[jabjab]

Just looking at prices of 340i I don't think it's wise to stretch the budget. N55 or Audi A4 looks to be a toss up now.

[msommers]

German? Out of warranty? Budget? Reliable?

117816

[killramos]

The A4 isn’t a toss up in any minds but yours, it’s definitively the inferior choice.

*mar thread incoming*

[jabjab]

German? Out of warranty? Budget? Reliable?

117816

Awd too

[bjstare]

Yeah the A4 is a tier below a 335/340 for sure. S4 is more comparable to those cars.

[Hallowed_point]

Yeah the A4 is a tier below a 335/340 for sure. S4 is more comparable to those cars.

:werd:

[jabjab]

If I go 2017 a4 I think a stage 2 Apr or uni tune will bring it up to 335xi power

[bjstare]

If I go 2017 a4 I think a stage 2 Apr or uni tune will bring it up to 335xi power

Sure. And make it 10x less reliable.

[killramos]

Sure. And make it 10x less reliable.

VW people gun VW people

[ExtraSlow]

I like Audi but I couldn't consider A4 a reasonable option here.

[jutes]

Tlx.

[jabjab]

I like Audi but I couldn't consider A4 a reasonable option here.

Reasoning?

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Tlx.

Ugly interior on the ones that would fit my budget

[Darkane]

TLX A-spec AWD?

A Little higher on the KMs, but 2018+ is the refresh year. Should be right at the budget.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/acura/tlx/calgary/alberta/5_60636723_ct200462112124706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=18_6_21&sprx=100

[killramos]

TLX A-spec AWD?

A Little higher on the KMs, but 2018+ is the refresh year. Should be right at the budget.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/acura/tlx/calgary/alberta/5_60636723_ct200462112124706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=18_6_21&sprx=100

You are missing the critical requirement, OP wants an A4.

He just wants the internet to tell him it’s a good idea when it’s not.

[jabjab]

You are missing the critical requirement, OP wants an A4.

He just wants the internet to tell him it’s a good idea when it’s not.

A4 is actually last on my list. I was leaning towards the 335xi in a low km. I'll go tomorrow to test drive the Tlx... Wondering if Q50 would be an option too

[Hallowed_point]

TLX A-spec AWD?

A Little higher on the KMs, but 2018+ is the refresh year. Should be right at the budget.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/acura/tlx/calgary/alberta/5_60636723_ct200462112124706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=18_6_21&sprx=100

I love how 2018+ TLX's look however that 9 speed is one terrible transmission. Should've had the 8 speed DCT (or 6 speed manual :bigpimp:) They're also quite overpriced still imo.

[Darkane]

I love how 2018+ TLX's look however that 9 speed is one terrible transmission. Should've had the 8 speed DCT (or 6 speed manual :bigpimp:) They're also quite overpriced still imo.

Yeah. They're expensive compared to prior

[My_name_is_Rob]

Lots of Audi hate it seems, but I've experienced the opposite. I have one of the last year's of a manual A4 (s-line sport), and I really enjoy it. The quattro system (I bought it specifically for winter) has performed excellent, and all of the maintenance or upgrades I've done to it have been actually quite simple to work on. Granted it's a pretty slow car, even after some work, but I've got it up to about 40 mpg on the highway. It rides nice on the highways and the interior is probably one of my favorites that I've been in. Plus something about VW products and their sport steering wheels always seem to do it for me. :dunno:

[Sugarphreak]

Audi age is less important than mileage.

I just sold my Q5 after 11 years of ownership. Aside from replacing the AGM battery at 9 years, I didn't have a single issue. No broken buttons, no glitches or electronic bugs, no broken clips or plastic. Still felt solid and like new.

With that said it had 76K on the ODO.

I wouldn't own an Audi with over about 125K on the ODO. A BMW would be better, but not by much.

[riander5]

Audi age is less important than mileage.

I just sold my Q5 after 11 years of ownership. Aside from replacing the AGM battery at 9 years, I didn't have a single issue. No broken buttons, no glitches or electronic bugs, no broken clips or plastic.

With that said it had 76K on the ODO.

I wouldn't own an Audi with over about 125K on the ODO. A BMW would be better, but not by much.

I can echo this, had a q5 from 75,000 kms - 115,000 kms and it was great.

Right at the end when I was selling.. things started to go. Headlight sensor issues, hatch electric issues, and I sold it and dodged the big 125,000 km timing chain adjustment or w/e it is.

[Hallowed_point]

I can echo this, had a q5 from 75,000 kms - 115,000 kms and it was great.

Right at the end when I was selling.. things started to go. Headlight sensor issues, hatch electric issues, and I sold it and dodged the big 125,000 km timing chain adjustment or w/e it is. Crazy that's considered high mileage/money pit kms for non sport model Audis. I would've anticipated 180,000 km + at least.

[94boosted]

Crazy that's considered high mileage/money pit kms for non sport model Audis. I would've anticipated 180,000 km + at least.

I consider anything over 60K km's "high mileage" when it comes to German cars :rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

This is a great thread, you can get shit on for calling German cars reliable and for calling then unreliable.

[gpomp]

My 15 year old German car has 250,000 km. Is it reliable or unreliable?

[bjstare]

My 15 year old German car has 250,000 km. Is it reliable or unreliable?

Until you start it and drive it, it is neither. It's Schrodinger's BMW.

[Sugarphreak]

Until you start it and drive it, it is neither. It's Schrodinger's BMW.

:rofl:

[riander5]

When is OP picking up his A4?

[gpomp]

Until you start it and drive it, it is neither. It's Schrodinger's BMW.

Nah my BMW is 18 years old and only has 170,000 km

[jabjab]

When is OP picking up his A4?

I'm going to this weekend to test drive the A4 and A3. If I can find a 2015 ish bmw 335 I will test drive that too

[03ozwhip]

Nah my BMW is 18 years old and only has 170,000 km

Mine n54 is 16 years old with 220k on it.....maintain them and they'll last.

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I'm going to this weekend to test drive the A4 and A3. If I can find a 2015 ish bmw 335 I will test drive that too

I strongly suggest you don't waste your time. Better feel and a bit more reliable, 2011 335, even better reliability and newer, bit more expensive, 2015. Don't even look at the audi man.

[jabjab]

Mine n54 is 16 years old with 220k on it.....maintain them and they'll last.

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I strongly suggest you don't waste your time. Better feel and a bit more reliable, 2011 335, even better reliability and newer, bit more expensive, 2015. Don't even look at the audi man.

I actually prefer the 2014 to 2017( or whatever was the first year with the new steering wheel) 335 in both looks an performance but keep hearing mixed feelings on the N55.

[03ozwhip]

I actually prefer the 2014 to 2017 335 in both looks an performance but keep hearing mixed feelings on the N55.

The N55 is one of the best they've had, the b58 is just better from everything I've been reading, but no experience with them.

[bjstare]

N55 is good, B58 is better. N54 is hard on the wallet but can make 550hp if you want it to.

[riander5]

B58 is materially faster stock vs stock with N55 as well.

[killramos]

Yea but can you get one in an Audi?

[jabjab]

N55 it is, fck the Audi idea

[heavyD]

Did VAG ever develop a thermostat housing and water pump for the EA888 that doesn't leak? It was an epidemic when I owned my MK7 Golf R as it was a matter of when not if. Fortunately I would periodically check and found sweating prior to having a big leak which was a good thing seeing at the time thermostat housings were on national backorder and I had to wait almost two months to get it fixed.

[riander5]

Did VAG ever develop a thermostat housing and water pump for the EA888 that doesn't leak? It was an epidemic when I owned my MK7 Golf R as it was a matter of when not if. Fortunately I would periodically check and found sweating prior to having a big leak which was a good thing seeing at the time thermostat housings were on national backorder and I had to wait almost two months to get it fixed.

I think they were too busy putting screens in front of their turbos

[flipstah]

Did VAG ever develop a thermostat housing and water pump for the EA888 that doesn't leak? It was an epidemic when I owned my MK7 Golf R as it was a matter of when not if. Fortunately I would periodically check and found sweating prior to having a big leak which was a good thing seeing at the time thermostat housings were on national backorder and I had to wait almost two months to get it fixed.

Nope.

[bjstare]

Did VAG ever develop a thermostat housing and water pump for any of their engines that doesn't leak?

Ftfy. And the answer is no.

Same comment for timing chain tensioners/guides.

[msommers]

Did BMW ever fix its fuel pump issues? Can't remember offhand what model/yr that was so problematic with

[bjstare]

Did BMW ever fix its fuel pump issues? Can't remember offhand what model/yr that was so problematic with

That was the N54 cars more than others, IIRC.

[heavyD]

Did BMW ever fix its fuel pump issues? Can't remember offhand what model/yr that was so problematic with

That was two engine generations ago and yes fixed on later engines.

[riander5]

BMW fixed it and warrantied the N54's that had fuel pump issues for 10 years. More than Audi or VW did.

Audi is the worst of the bunch, but also, imo, makes the best looking cars of the bunch.

Those new RS5 sportbacks are a beautiful car. Like I said previously, treat the VAG products like an electric car. Own in warranty period and dispose of after

[killramos]

I feel like an A4 is a perfectly fine vehicle to lease and return.

[Xtrema]

The N55 is one of the best they've had, the b58 is just better from everything I've been reading, but no experience with them.

Isn't B58 good because Toyota helped them develop it for the Supra? Or was that just all marketing BS?

[riander5]

Isn't B58 good because Toyota helped them develop it for the Supra? Or was that just all marketing BS?

No, that just never happened

[94boosted]

Isn't B58 good because Toyota helped them develop it for the Supra? Or was that just all marketing BS?

B58 came out in 2015, long before the Supra.

[KLCC]

B58 came out in 2015, long before the Supra.

If anything I think Toyota bought from BMW, effectively remonstrating that BMW can reach Toyota's level of reliability, at least with the B58.

[bjstare]

I don’t think potential reliability played into it. Toyota put Subaru engines in their cars, and they’re as shitty as they’ve ever been.

[94boosted]

I don’t think potential reliability played into it. Toyota put Subaru engines in their cars, and they’re as shitty as they’ve ever been.

You mean an engine in a sports car that loses oil pressure mid corner isn't normal?

[bjstare]

You mean an engine in a sports car that loses oil pressure mid corner isn't normal?

Well, for a Subaru maybe.

[heavyD]

You mean an engine in a sports car that loses oil pressure mid corner isn't normal?

Doesn't help that Subaru is so liberal with the silicone when assembling the engine that pieces of silicone end up plugging the oil pickup and filter in those cars. If there's any manufacturer that could benefit from going EV, it's Subaru because they have never been able to master the concept of building a solid engine.

[msommers]

BMW fixed it and warrantied the N54's that had fuel pump issues for 10 years. More than Audi or VW did.

That is shockingly admirable of them.

[HiSpec]

Are the N55 and B58 engines both susceptible to carbon build up like the VAG engine?

[94boosted]

Are the N55 and B58 engines both susceptible to carbon build up like the VAG engine?

Every DI engine will be to some extent, but it won't be nearly as bad as the N54's were.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I see OP posting a wtb ad on the BMW Classifieds Facebook group. Has he finally given up on Audi?

[jabjab]

I see OP posting a wtb ad on the BMW Classifieds Facebook group. Has he finally given up on Audi?

yes, I'm set on a 335xi. After owning Audi's its time for a change, i'll live with my decision

[jabjab]

Bump. After some research and talking to a specialized bmw shop I'm staying away from any N55 engine. They explained to me that there is a issue with the bearings and they've seen a few engine seizures because of it. There is no warning either but good maintenance will avoid it.

I'm now narrowing my car choices and increased budget to 35k.

Cars I'm now considering :

Bmw 330i with the b48 (newer ish model)
BMW 340i
Infiniti Q50 (don't know much about these cars yet)

[max_boost]

my brother has a 2020 m340i very nice car and smooth drive
i was impressed

[jabjab]

my brother has a 2020 m340i very nice car and smooth drive
i was impressed

Prices seem to be better in bc for cars I'm finding, especially ones at the dealer. C43 could be had for similar price as well. I'll need to test drive these.

[max_boost]

yes bc is very good for used cars :werd:
good luck!

[Jeeper1986]

I would go with the 335xi.

I had an S3 with a stage 2 tune and supporting bolt ons, intake, intercooler, downpipe, the car was pushing 400hp 400 tq. I really disliked the car, it did fit a big car seat for my 4 year old good.

Im not sure if it was the car or if its all s3 cars, but driving it in the winter with winter tires was scary as hell, the car felt very unstable while driving on snow where the back end felt like its gonna go side ways at any time. I ended up trading the car for a BMW 435xi after 6 months of owner ship.

The 435 was less power for sure but was much more enjoyable then the S3 to drive and the x drive was a monster in the snow with winter tires and the car was way more luxurious compared to the S3 and yes it fit a full size kid seat in the back for my 4 year old

So I would imagine a 4 door 335 would be more roomier then the 4 series.