New Mercedes Vehicles

[riander5]

With all the new Mercs coming out (full lineup refresh since currenty cars suck so much?) this could be mega... just saw this new E53. Pretty god damn nice looking car to be honest. Will it be 9000 lb and shit to drive? Unknown. A certain beyond member (founder?!?) seems to love the 53 variants.

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[rage2]

The 53's were the first "fat" cars. Basically the jump from E43 (V6 non hybrid) to E53 (I6 Hybrid) saw the weight jump 200 lbs from 4150lbs to 4350lbs due to hybrid pieces in the drivetrain. My E53 cab is an even bigger pig, at 4550lbs. The new E53 shouldn't jump much more in weight in comparison to the car it replaces as its carryover drivetrain.

That said, I don't track my cars anymore. 4600lb pig is perfectly fine for the street. I'll still pull >1g in corners in the summer using PS4S tires. Really, the downside to the weight would mostly be in consumables such as tires and brakes, although I have noticed brakes to last longer because of mild hybrid.

The real big pigs will be the 63's, adding a whopping 650lbs with the E performance drivetrain which will bring the E63 to around 5000lbs. That F1 battery, motor and turbo weighs a lot. Will it be a pig to drive? On the track, it'll suck 100%. Can't hide that weight. As a street car? I think it'll be just fine flying through on and off ramps. Just be prepared to buy a lot of tires. Brakes should be OK, the E performance platform will rarely use physical brakes as it can harvest energy from the majority of street braking.

TL;DR - these cars are all too heavy and be shitty on the track. They'll be just fine and fun to drive on the street.

edit - everyone is going down this path. The new M5 hybrid is also going to be a pig at 5400lbs. Lots of options out there coming down the pipe.

[riander5]

The 53's were the first "fat" cars. Basically the jump from E43 (V6 non hybrid) to E53 (I6 Hybrid) saw the weight jump 200 lbs from 4150lbs to 4350lbs due to hybrid pieces in the drivetrain. My E53 cab is an even bigger pig, at 4550lbs. The new E53 shouldn't jump much more in weight in comparison to the car it replaces as its carryover drivetrain.

That said, I don't track my cars anymore. 4600lb pig is perfectly fine for the street. I'll still pull >1g in corners in the summer using PS4S tires. Really, the downside to the weight would mostly be in consumables such as tires and brakes, although I have noticed brakes to last longer because of mild hybrid.

The real big pigs will be the 63's, adding a whopping 650lbs with the E performance drivetrain which will bring the E63 to around 5000lbs. That F1 battery, motor and turbo weighs a lot. Will it be a pig to drive? On the track, it'll suck 100%. Can't hide that weight. As a street car? I think it'll be just fine flying through on and off ramps. Just be prepared to buy a lot of tires. Brakes should be OK, the E performance platform will rarely use physical brakes as it can harvest energy from the majority of street braking.

TL;DR - these cars are all too heavy and be shitty on the track. They'll be just fine and fun to drive on the street.

edit - everyone is going down this path. The new M5 hybrid is also going to be a pig at 5400lbs. Lots of options out there coming down the pipe.

Yea, these aren't track cars. Which is great, since we don't even have an f'in track.

So do you think you'll be looking at one of these new ones?

[dirtsniffer]

BMW could learn a thing or two in the styling department.

[riander5]

Mercedes CLE coupe? What the hell is this thing?! It looks sweet!

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[killramos]

wtf are those rims lol

- - - Updated - - -


BMW could learn a thing or two in the styling department.

I wish we could get BMW drivetrains in a Mercedes body. That would be awesome.

[riander5]

wtf are those rims lol

- - - Updated - - -



I wish we could get BMW drivetrains in a Mercedes body. That would be awesome.

Honestly look like Brabus rims. Im sure it will have a more normal option

[rage2]

Yea, these aren't track cars. Which is great, since we don't even have an f'in track.

So do you think you'll be looking at one of these new ones?
Yea, eyeing the CLE as shown below.


Mercedes CLE coupe? What the hell is this thing?! It looks sweet!

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C and E class lost their coupe and cabriolets. The new combined coupe and cabriolet is the CLE class, that's what this thing is. From 53 and above it gets a wide body treatment as shown in this pic. There's a 63 coming as well (supposedly) with the P3 F1 hybrid setup and 700hp.


wtf are those rims lol
Those rims have been around since the 53. MB is doing everything they can to make those the premium wheels. I'm not a fan either.

[bjstare]

Those rims have been around since the 53. MB is doing everything they can to make those the premium wheels. I'm not a fan either.

Monoblocks or bust. Although tbh I don't mind those wheels. Seems like busy wheel designs are trendy these days.

[jabjab]

If the marvel character Venom needed rims it would be those ones.

[benyl]

Monoblocks or bust. Although tbh I don't mind those wheels. Seems like busy wheel designs are trendy these days.

I like the concavity of the rear, but yes, 5 spoke monoblocks FTW.

That CLE63 is going to be $150K CAD at least.

[riander5]

I like the concavity of the rear, but yes, 5 spoke monoblocks FTW.

That CLE63 is going to be $150K CAD at least.

Downside of Mercedes.. their pricing is totally fucked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZMGZ2MoCE

[schocker]

Was it a currency issue or something that caused the merc prices to spike? Like a loaded C43 is now ~$95k which is M3/RS5 money.

[killramos]

Where are you buying M3 for under a hundred grand in 2024?

[rage2]

Downside of Mercedes.. their pricing is totally fucked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZMGZ2MoCE
The upside with the CLE is that it's a replacement for both C coupe/cab and E coupe/cab, but in reality car wise it's a E coupe/cab replacement, being the same size as the outgoing E. Pricing wise, it's somewhere in between the C and E, so that it's not a massive sticker shock for people going from C to CLE. So far only 1 price has been released, the CLE300 4matic coupe at $56,500 start. In comparison, the old C300 coupe started at $55,000, while the cheapest E class (E350 sedan) started at $63,300. For us going from E -> CLE, it *should* be cheaper. All depends on what comes standard/options available. Check all the boxes, and list Buster says, the CLE63 will probably be a $150k car in convertible trim.


Was it a currency issue or something that caused the merc prices to spike? Like a loaded C43 is now ~$95k which is M3/RS5 money.
Lower production from Covid, spike in demand because people had silly spending power, dealers were making stupid money with market adjustment fees, so MB raised prices to take their cut. Everything started going back to normal, but can't lower MSRP now. Instead cars are discounted with massive trunk money. SL's, G wagons seeing 50k+ discounts which is hilarious.

[Inzane]

Those rims have been around since the 53. MB is doing everything they can to make those the premium wheels. I'm not a fan either.

They look like they'd be a bitch to clean as well.

[riander5]

They look like they'd be a bitch to clean as well.

*scoffs*

You don't clean your own wheels with a CLE AMG pal

[rage2]

They look like they'd be a bitch to clean as well.
That’s why I hate them.

[schocker]

Where are you buying M3 for under a hundred grand in 2024?

I'm just talking msrp to msrp.

[bjstare]

Was it a currency issue or something that caused the merc prices to spike? Like a loaded C43 is now ~$95k which is M3/RS5 money.

An M3 hasn't been $95k for like 5 years now :rofl:

[gpomp]

An M3 hasn't been $95k for like 5 years now :rofl: He's only off by $75k :dunno:


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[vengie]

I am still stuck in the times when a wicked vehicle could be had for $50k.

I am so out of touch with the market, I couldn't fathom spending $100k for a daily driver.
That CLE coupe looks great though.

[Inzane]

I am still stuck in the times when a wicked vehicle could be had for $50k.

I am so out of touch with the market, I couldn't fathom spending $100k for a daily driver.


Same.

[Xtrema]

I am still stuck in the times when a wicked vehicle could be had for $50k.

I am so out of touch with the market, I couldn't fathom spending $100k for a daily driver.
That CLE coupe looks great though.

You'll feel better once you figure out you can't get much for $50K these day from mainstream dealers.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

https://i.postimg.cc/sD6c8Tgp/IMG-0513.png

Starts at just under $100k with GST.

[killramos]

https://i.postimg.cc/sD6c8Tgp/IMG-0513.png

Starts at just under $100k with GST.

Ironically probably the one to get.

But I somehow doubt anyone is driving one off the lot with a check that doesn’t start with a 1…

[npham]

Will there be an E53 wagon that makes it to Canada?

[Xtrema]

Will there be an E53 wagon that makes it to Canada?

Current E53 never made it here unless I'm wrong. So I doubt new one will either.

E63 is only game if you are ready to drop $200K on one.

[riander5]

I wonder if the new E63 will have 1000hp and weigh 7000 lbs

[killramos]

And cost as much as a G wagon by Mercedes latest trends.

And still not get a V8

[rage2]

Will there be an E53 wagon that makes it to Canada?
No more merc wagons in Canada going forward.


Current E53 never made it here unless I'm wrong. So I doubt new one will either.

E63 is only game if you are ready to drop $200K on one.
There was 1 year with E53 wagon here. Pre facelift. Maybe just 1 model year. It was made unavailable after the facelift, and the 450 was only available in the all terrain version. I didn’t order the e53 and went with the e400 because the jump seats were only available in non AMGs.

[flipstah]

You'll feel better once you figure out you can't get much for $50K these day from mainstream dealers.

This.

[Buster]

aaahahhahahahahha


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6JEg2jjf8U

Does MB just think their customers are retarded now? Is that their entire marketing plan?

[bjstare]

$25k to make your SUV completely invisible seems like pretty good bang for your buck to me :dunno:

[ExtraSlow]

If you buy an ugly car, may as well be hard to see.

[Buster]

If you buy an ugly car, may as well be hard to see.

Nice cars should not be black.

Ugly cars should be black.

It is thus.

[Xtrema]

https://youtu.be/dVibf7leyb8


https://youtu.be/2yKbpCFM9hY?t=183
Starts at 3:00 mark.

[riander5]

aaahahhahahahahha


Does MB just think their customers are retarded now? Is that their entire marketing plan?

They're working hard to make the G63 feel like a great deal

[rage2]

Mercedes (along with everyone else) has been using premium looking cheap plastic forever. It’s light, looks kinda expensive, but yea it’ll sound like plastic when pushing on it.

That SL armrest moving that much tho does seem shitty haha. Just tried my car there’s very little movement. I mean it can’t be solidly stiff, but the SL at 3 min mark does seem extreme.

[Buster]

This is the opposite of what they should be doing. The entire idea of a premium car is basically being fundamentally attacked by EV tech. The only opportunity for the luxury makers to stay relevant is for them to build a luxury car. It used to be premium cars were sold on:

- build quality (look and feel not necessarily reliability)
- design
- performance

Build quality is being commoditized (as we saw), performance is being commoditized. So all we have left with is design? And people are going to pay a $100k premium for a design and a brand? They won't, as MB has seen. Not to mention the "design" direction of the german premium brands is fucking awful across the board.

[Buster]

https://youtu.be/dVibf7leyb8


https://youtu.be/2yKbpCFM9hY?t=183
Starts at 3:00 mark.

I just watched that SL63 one.

That fucking door card flex. Fuck me. That's embarrassing.

[heavyD]

This is the opposite of what they should be doing. The entire idea of a premium car is basically being fundamentally attacked by EV tech. The only opportunity for the luxury makers to stay relevant is for them to build a luxury car. It used to be premium cars were sold on:

- build quality (look and feel not necessarily reliability)
- design
- performance

Build quality is being commoditized (as we saw), performance is being commoditized. So all we have left with is design? And people are going to pay a $100k premium for a design and a brand? They won't, as MB has seen. Not to mention the "design" direction of the german premium brands is fucking awful across the board.

I don't know about that man. BMW quality has never been better and while VAG cheaped out some interiors post-dieselgate it's largely been done to VW's and lower line Audi's like the A3, S3, etc their higher lines are still pretty solid. This build quality issue seems more like a Mercedes Benz issue rather than a German automaker issue.

[Buster]

I don't know about that man. BMW quality has never been better and while VAG cheaped out some interiors post-dieselgate it's largely been done to VW's and lower line Audi's like the A3, S3, etc their higher lines are still pretty solid. This build quality issue seems more like a Mercedes Benz issue rather than a German automaker issue.

This very well could be true. I've had some experiences with BMW that aren't good (for a very long time). But that's not exactly evidence. I think that BMWs of today certainly feel like they are being screwed together better than MBs of today. Porsche too.

[rage2]

Lexus to me is still the benchmark in the middle class luxury segment. Everyone else is just a pretender.

[Buster]

Everyone should just drive Ridgelines.

[Xtrema]

I don't know about that man. BMW quality has never been better and while VAG cheaped out some interiors post-dieselgate it's largely been done to VW's and lower line Audi's like the A3, S3, etc their higher lines are still pretty solid. This build quality issue seems more like a Mercedes Benz issue rather than a German automaker issue.

VAG products is getting bad too.

Look at the new Q6 Etron.

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Instead of giving you real tactile buttons, they give you a capacitive touchpad on a spring board that simulate a button push.

Don't know if that's a caption error but #CapacitiveBS indeed.

But at least they are giving you extra buttons, Tesla will just tell you to touch the only screen in the car.

[rage2]

VAG products is getting bad too.

Look at the new Q6 Etron.

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Instead of giving you real tactile buttons, they give you a capacitive touchpad on a spring board that simulate a button push.

Don't know if that's a caption error but #CapacitiveBS indeed.

But at least they are giving you extra buttons, Tesla will just tell you to touch the only screen in the car.
Mercedes current steering wheel has capacitive buttons and it’s literally the worst thing ever. It’s not a good implementation at all, 40% accuracy on a good day. My car unfortunately was one of the early ones with it. I avoid using those as much as possible, unfortunately have no choice with cruise control.

The pre facelift steering wheel just had 1 capacitive touch on the wheel for directional navigating menus and it was the best steering wheel they’ve made. Call me a boomer but I want my fucking tactile buttons.

[Xtrema]

The pre facelift steering wheel just had 1 capacitive touch on the wheel for directional navigating menus and it was the best steering wheel they’ve made. Call me a boomer but I want my fucking tactile buttons.


Yup. All these cost cutting and button removing is pissing me off. May as well just buy a Tesla at this ponit.

[mr2mike]

Lots of mechanics are speaking out that these newer vehicles are going to be so cost prohibited to fix. No customer is going to say "yes, put in a new screen for $8k so I can have heat on in my car or see the fuel gauge".

These are not long term vehicles at all. Mechanically, yes motor and transmission will last. All the custom screens are walking into a too expensive to own anything past 5 years.

[killramos]

Well BMW just launched the signup sheet for an M5 touring if people want something without a star on the front

[benyl]

Gonna be $200K I bet.

[killramos]

180+ for sure

[nismodrifter]

+pst
20% if vehicle over 150k

Lmao love this province. Cash grabs left and right.

Things that I've noticed on my latest purchase, 2021 gle450:
Headlight switch is cheap plastic now? Not that I ever even touch it as it remains on auto but it feels like it's from the dollar store.
Burrmeister stereo is horrid.
Steering wheel track pad buttons sucked initially but I've gotten use to them.
Take a close look at leather stitching on the seats particularly around bends (ie: looking at rear seat from the cargo area). Some areas look like it's been done by high school student.

Overall I am very happy with the vehicle but there is no way this compares to mercedes quality of the olden days. This seems to be the case with all manufacturers though. Disappointing. Will it last me 5 to 10 years? I hope so. Have power train warranty until 2027 as it's certified pre owned. May look into extended warranty to cover everything.

[riander5]

Bring back real head units in Mercedes'

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[heavyD]

Lots of mechanics are speaking out that these newer vehicles are going to be so cost prohibited to fix. No customer is going to say "yes, put in a new screen for $8k so I can have heat on in my car or see the fuel gauge".

These are not long term vehicles at all. Mechanically, yes motor and transmission will last. All the custom screens are walking into a too expensive to own anything past 5 years.

We heard that years ago when brands started using LCD cockpits and it's not really amounted to much. Solid state hardware will usually always outlast mechanical devices. It's the complex hybrid drivetrains that are going to be nightmares to maintain out of warranty.

[Xtrema]

We heard that years ago when brands started using LCD cockpits and it's not really amounted to much. Solid state hardware will usually always outlast mechanical devices. It's the complex hybrid drivetrains that are going to be nightmares to maintain out of warranty.

Manufacturers are starting to throw OLED into dash (see Escalade). And we all know OLED and static images don't mix. Those will be ticking time bombs.

Then German start to put them in taillights/turn signals.

[flipstah]

We heard that years ago when brands started using LCD cockpits and it's not really amounted to much. Solid state hardware will usually always outlast mechanical devices. It's the complex hybrid drivetrains that are going to be nightmares to maintain out of warranty.

So extended warranty might be worth it nowadays?

[Flexray]

Lots of mechanics are speaking out that these newer vehicles are going to be so cost prohibited to fix. No customer is going to say "yes, put in a new screen for $8k so I can have heat on in my car or see the fuel gauge".

These are not long term vehicles at all. Mechanically, yes motor and transmission will last. All the custom screens are walking into a too expensive to own anything past 5 years.


We heard that years ago when brands started using LCD cockpits and it's not really amounted to much. Solid state hardware will usually always outlast mechanical devices. It's the complex hybrid drivetrains that are going to be nightmares to maintain out of warranty.

I think modern day vehicles are very much built to last. I remember cork gaskets and kilometers of vacuum hoses, that shit was terrible.

Yes some components are expensive to replace. But vehicles have always had expensive parts on them. The cost of labor, tooling, and education is what is driving up the cost of automotive repair. Just like every trade, there is a shortage of technicians. If a shop wants a tech that can repair a rolling super computer. They are going to have to get off their wallet and steal one from another shop. Or invest in someone and train them, which also means getting off their wallet. Having proper repair information, software/hardware, and actual tools just to repair one make of vehicle costs thousands every year. All of these costs are built into the shops labor rate. There are cities where the going labor rate is $300+ an hour already. Dealerships are expensive because they actually pass the true cost of a repair to the customer. I have seen some seriously expensive stuff get broken on very new vehicles, and it's not covered under warranty.
The automobile is going a full circle, only the wealthy will own them.

[Buster]

No way. The automobile is going the other direction.

As they get to be viewed as commodities, people will start to treat them that way. The market will shift to durability over making them expensive baubles for people to flex. I still predict the car market will look like the phone market within a few years. Some "high end" cars that do a bit more of this or that, but really isn't far from the average car. Nobody even looks at each others' phones anymore to see what they are using. They are 99% about function. With maybe a silly case for the kids.

Cost of ownership, replaceability/modularity of car parts will be more important than phones, but there will be a significant drive towards practicality, repairability, and reduced cost of ownership.

[ThePenIsMightier]

No way. The automobile is going the other direction.

As they get to be viewed as commodities, people will start to treat them that way. The market will shift to durability over making them expensive baubles for people to flex. I still predict the car market will look like the phone market within a few years. Some "high end" cars that do a bit more of this or that, but really isn't far from the average car. Nobody even looks at each others' phones anymore to see what they are using. They are 99% about function. With maybe a silly case for the kids.

Cost of ownership, replaceability/modularity of car parts will be more important than phones, but there will be a significant drive towards practicality, repairability, and reduced cost of ownership.

I disagree because that's an intelligent, logical path for the market to go. Meanwhile, the market is half composed of people with below average intelligence and they are less likely to be interested in practicality or cost of ownership.

[bjstare]

I think modern day vehicles are very much built to last until the end of the warranty period, and no longer.



Ftfy.

Car companies exist to maximize value for shareholders, and a great way to do this is to engineer something to be built easily/quickly, and not over-build it at all. Any item on the car that lasts longer than the warranty, represents a corner that can be cut a bit tighter.

[XylathaneGTR]

Ftfy.
Any item on the car that lasts longer than the warranty, represents a corner that can be cut a bit tighter. "Optimized" and "Value Engineered" are the words you're looking for :)

[bjstare]

"Optimized" and "Value Engineered" are the words you're looking for :)

"I must spread some rep..."

[Flexray]

No way. The automobile is going the other direction.

As they get to be viewed as commodities, people will start to treat them that way. The market will shift to durability over making them expensive baubles for people to flex. I still predict the car market will look like the phone market within a few years. Some "high end" cars that do a bit more of this or that, but really isn't far from the average car. Nobody even looks at each others' phones anymore to see what they are using. They are 99% about function. With maybe a silly case for the kids.

Cost of ownership, replaceability/modularity of car parts will be more important than phones, but there will be a significant drive towards practicality, repairability, and reduced cost of ownership.

I very much agree with this.

Car culture is over. Days of the fast and the furious are gone. The next generation of transportation is being developed. There is a massive space race to train autonomous driving programs.
Give it a few more years and I bet HOV lanes will be converted into autonomous only lanes. The best way to reduce traffic is to remove the humans.
As vehicle autonomy grows the way they are repaired is going to change. I'm already seeing planned obsolescence in components. When the vehicle hits the end of its planned life, it gets recycled. We already have a problem with rolling zombies, this will fix that. I think technician maintenance release forms are coming. No more back yard Bob with his claw hammer and vise grips.
At the end of my career, I will probably be working for a Uber fleet shop.

[ExtraSlow]

Kids these days just don't appreciate.....