Track Pack - "Hahah, Gotcha!"

[Z_Fan]

You've just purchased a 2003 or 2004 Track Pack 350z.

Nissan has stated...

----

“TRACK PACK MODEL. For the hard-core, performance-focused driver, Nissan offers the Z Track Pack Model. Fewer gadgets. More pure adrenaline. Boasting zero life and an extraordinary low drag co-efficient of just .29, the Track Pack Model features a Brembo Braking System, Rays super-lightweight 18” forged-alloy wheels, high-performance tires, a 160-watt AM/FM/CD audio system, front chin spoiler and rear underbody diffusers. Not for the weak of heart.”

“WHY SUCH POWERFUL BRAKES? JUST LOOK UNDER THE HOOD. The more power, the more need for bigger, better-performing brakes. Which is why Z comes standard-equipped with high-performance calipers coupled with massive 296mm (11.65”) rotors that let you brake later and slow to cornering speed faster. Track Pack Models feature the ultimate grabbers, Brembo brakes, the feature rotors measuring 324mm (12.76”) in diameter with high-performance four-piston calipers, all kept cool by a unique Brembo air management system. This racing-style air-cooling system reduces fade, assuring smooth and predictable braking. In short, the less time on the brakes, the more time on the throttle.”

----

How many KM are you expecting to get on your "Track Pack" at the TRACK before you have to replace completely your Rotors, and Pads?

[Z_Fan]

Should have mentioned this, but I'll post a follow-up in a week or so once there's a decent number of votes posted.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Ive seen you drive...500kms sound reasonable

[lam-boy]

guessing 10000 KM? i know jack all but whatever.

[2000impreza]

my guess is 10 000 too. evo and sti use similar brakes as well.

[Khyron]

The fact that he's posting this with all the suspense means the answer is 500 km.

Khyron

[Z_Fan]

Originally posted by Khyron
The fact that he's posting this with all the suspense means the answer is 500 km.

Khyron

LOL

It's not suspense is it? Hahah, the idea is to decide what you'd expect from this car called "Track Pack" specifically because of the braking system on it.

"Track Pack" means something I suppose? So you just have to guess how many KM before failure. My car is a 2003 and the brakes are totally gone. (Which I expected as far as pads go, but ROTORS too?)

I drive the car hard, like it was intended - at the track...normal use everywhere else...pretty much.

[Z_Fan]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ive seen you drive...500kms sound reasonable

You should come with me sometime...

[GT2NV]

haha if its 500, you drive way too damn hard lol:nut:

[rage2]

I'd say 10,000km. My car seen a lot of track time (prob. as much as yours), and is fairly similar in weight. I've gone a bit over 10k before my brake job.

As for 500km, I've finished off tires in 500km's, no way you can kill off a set of brakes in 500km's haha.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Z_Fan


You should come with me sometime...
For sure that would be great:thumbsup:

[Fuji]

i read somewhere that the brembos that come stock dont have a very long rotor or pad lifespan... so I don't doubt it.

[Altezza]

What are you going to replace the rotors and pads with? I wonder how much Nissan will want for replacement pads and rotors on those Brembos...

[ZorroAMG]

That's fucking ridiculous if it's true, and I would be in no way, proud if MY car's brakes needed replacement @ 500km. That's like one tank of gas! LMAO@ your situation....

[Z_Fan]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

For sure that would be great:thumbsup:

Consider yourself invited.

[Z_Fan]

OK GUYS - THANKS FOR VOTING!

500KM is the right answer in my case as far as what happened. This is with respect to my FRONT pads/rotors. The REAR pads are worn badly too, almost gone, but any costs in this post are related to FRONT only...

Well, here's the scoop. My 350z has been at the track at least 3 times. (It may be 4, but I can only verify by digitally dated photographs 3 dates) Sometimes I had the 350z and the Twin Turbo there on the same days, and sometimes only the Turbo...

10,000KM "at the track" would consume (in my best guess) 20 pairs of OE pads ($6000) and 10 pairs of OE rotors ($14000) based on my personal driving habits (aggressive) at the track. It would also take about 20 visits at average of 4 visits per year it would cost $20000 to track the car with OE equipment every 5 years. So, I bought a TRACK PACK for WHAT REASON AGAIN? Oh yeah, forget about the tires you'd consume. This price is just braking and assumes your calipers hold up.

I am estimating that I have 500km 'at the track' on the car. The vehicle has 7,432km on it as it sits. The track km I suppose could be a little higher, or a little less, but I think I'd be very close (give or take 100km).

The brakes are completely gone. The rotors have blue heat spots for getting 'blue hot'. The pads on the front are down to metal on metal. So naturally, the rotor is requiring machining. As soon as the car made 'noise' I took it to the dealer, but at that point it was really too late as the rotor is grooved.

As a loyal Nissan customer, I am extremely disappointed with the life of the rotor/brakes that Nissan is selling on a "TRACK PACK" model which they advertising specifically for the "performance-focused" driver. That's my bitch about this, not that they are worn out. That I am expecting. Problem is the longevity of the product. I feel it should have taken more abuse for something that is a 'very specific' performance upgrade with respect to the cars model and to how the car is advertised to the consumer.

ANYHOW - So naturally Nissan wants to machine rotors, and put back OE pads on the car. Just for your own LAUGH (if you're not already laughing about how fast this stuff expired) - they want $700 per rotor (for new ones) and $300 for pads/install. So that'd be a total of $1700+. If I machine the rotor, I'll be back after my next track visit for expired rotors cuz they're just not going to work thinner as they already get too damn hot. Uhm, no "I'll get STILLEN stuff thanks anyhow".

I ofcourse tell them no way to OE equipment, cuz I'm gonna be back in their shop in 500km at the track. In fact, I could buy a NEW one and wind up back in their shop in 500km of track driving. That's something they don't print in their brochure!! So I can get a better rotor and pads for almost half the cost compared to the OE solution. LOL. Nissan wants to install my Stillen stuff for me after I explain that putting OE equipment back on is useless. Yeah right, gimme a break. Uhm, "No, I think I'll do it myself". If it ain't warranty, I'm not in to paying them to do it...

BOTTOM LINE

If you own any of the many vehicles that are coming with this Brembo package, such as WRX STI, G35, 350Z TP, etc, and you actually track your car (and don't drive like a pussy) - you're brakes will be entirely consumed inside of 3-4 visits. Plus your rotors are inadequate for the track. So, don't be mislead into thinking your brakes are the shiz. You need to go and get aftermarket rotor/pad set up to fit the OE caliper. Even that is a bandaid. However, should double or triple your life expectancy on those components. I'd guess at least double.

If you have a car with the BREMBOS you'd better go out and at minimum get aggressive street pads if you track it. *OR* go get two sets of pads. A Street pad for daily driving, but better than OE, and a set of race pads specifically for the track. If you don't, expect to replace the rotor/pad a lot sooner than you'd like.

So that's my story...

[rage2]

Oh damn, I read the poll question wrong. Track KM's... definately 500km or even less.

Z_Fan, 500km at the track is about right, especially for a track like Race City's roadcourse. The problem with race city is turn 1... a fairly slow corner preceded by a huge burst of top speed thanks to the 1/2 mile straight... which means a huge workout for the brakes. Our roadcourse is KNOWN to kill off brakes regardless of driver, because of the long front straight. It's also known to kill off the passenger front tires too, but that's another story :). I've seen hard drivers in stock Hondas come back to the pits after 6 laps with their brakes literally on fire. That's why a lot of veterans go slow on the front straight to preserve their brakes, and work on their cornering instead.

Both my benz's lasted a little more than 2 full track days before the front brakes were gone. The rears held up for close to 4 track days. The 500km figure is fairly close.

Oddly though, my 944's brakes (993 twin turbo brembos) lasted forever... about 6-8 trackdays so far. I'm still on the original pads and rotors from my summer 2002 install. Rotors and pads of course are a lot more expensive tho...

One final note, on my SLK 320, I went cheap and machined the rotors and replaced the pads for one of the brake jobs, it lasted less than 1 track day. The thinner rotors failed to dissipate the heat properly, melted the pads, and both rotors and pads had to be replaced a few days later.

[m10-power]

or buy a lighter car. lol

Seriously something that gets overlooked is proper bedding in of pads. Done correctly it will vastly increase the life of the pads as well as their effectiveness.

This can be hard to do, you need to take a brand new set out and work them hard over and over until they completely fade away. Then immediately stop and let them cool.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
If you have a car with the BREMBOS you'd better go out and at minimum get aggressive street pads if you track it. *OR* go get two sets of pads. A Street pad for daily driving, but better than OE, and a set of race pads specifically for the track. If you don't, expect to replace the rotor/pad a lot sooner than you'd like.
High friction pads like true race pads are going to chew up the rotors even worse than the stock pads did. Unfortunately, going through brakes and tires is the cost of doing business, even at casual lapping days like the ones beyond hosts. High speeds and hard braking means dead brakes much faster than normal, even on full blown race cars. I wasn't running anything more than an aggressive street pad on my sub and it literally had the brakes glowing by the end of the session, and that was not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination but it went through pads like oreos. There isn't much you can about the life of your brakes other than be more gentle with them.

[rage2]

As m10-power states, get a lighter car :). Weight reduction really helps brake life. Extremely oversized brakes work too. In my 944 (weighs around 2940lbs), I'm rarely fully on the brakes. Truth is, I can lock the brakes going 200km/h on street tires, they're fairly oversized for my application. This might be a reason why the brake life on that car has been so good.

[JAYMEZ]

Well since im gonna be doing the track with my STi , what brake pads to you suggest to purchase for track?

[Z_Fan]

Originally posted by rage2
One final note, on my SLK 320, I went cheap and machined the rotors and replaced the pads for one of the brake jobs, it lasted less than 1 track day. The thinner rotors failed to dissipate the heat properly, melted the pads, and both rotors and pads had to be replaced a few days later.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

See this is the mistake Nissan was trying to convince me to make. Machining my rotors. But I just got thinking if they failed as fast as they did in the first place, this isn't going to cut it.

...

4wheeldrift -> I was thinking specifically of upgrading to better rotors via Stillen that are slotted but are same diameter as the OE rotor so I can continue to use my OE Brembo Calipers. The aggressive pads agreeably would chew up the stock rotor. But what do you think it'll do to an upgraded rotor? That's the real question I guess. I'm concerned about it for sure. But if the Race Pad is being used as intended (at track) it should provide excellent stopping power with optimal wear.

[Z_Fan]

One other thing I thought I'd mention for laughs.

My Twin Turbo after I upgraded the brakes, the brakes work extremely well with less pedal pressure than my 350z requires. (Though the 350z still stops better if you ask me, that's just a weight thing) - Anyhow, the Twin Turbo brakes got so hot that you couldn't touch the WHEEL anywhere. The WHEEL actually physically changed sizes due to the heat expansion. When it cooled down, the wheel did NOT go back to original size. Now my little plastic centre caps don't fit in the WHEEL anymore! Guess those fronts got transformed from 17" to 17.0625". LOL

Believe it!

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Z_Fan

4wheeldrift -> I was thinking specifically of upgrading to better rotors via Stillen that are slotted but are same diameter as the OE rotor so I can continue to use my OE Brembo Calipers. The aggressive pads agreeably would chew up the stock rotor. But what do you think it'll do to an upgraded rotor? That's the real question I guess. I'm concerned about it for sure. But if the Race Pad is being used as intended (at track) it should provide excellent stopping power with optimal wear. How bad the pads are going to chew up the rotors depends entirely on the composition of the pad and the rotor. The stillen rotors may be a harder material and thus less prone to erosion in this way, but without knowing the exact metallurgy of the replacement rotors its really tough to say. If part of your problem is overheating either the pad compound or the rotor then the slotted rotors are likely to help there. Additional cooling in the form of brake ducting or removing the dust shields may also help. But my suggstion would be: get the new rotors cryo treated. This is not terribly expensive, there's a couple places in town that do it and its proven to increase rotor life by a significant margin even when running aggressive pads.