US contractor murdered in IRAQ

[spike98]

What do you people think of this. I am really pissed off right now.

For those of you that haven't heard here is the link:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040512/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

It really pisses me off that these people do this shit. All the innocent people that die because bush wants to have a cock measuring contest.

The thing that gets me the most is the fact that this poor man didn't have to die. The US government wouldn't let him out of the country because they thought he was a terrorist. SHIT! They bring in a contractor to help rebuild a country that is still killing americans and then turn around and say "NOPE, you have to stay"

I have seen the full video and trust me you don't want to endour that so i am not even going to post the link. It really gets me and just wanted to bang on some keys to get out my anger.

Please post your thoughts!

[Shaolin]

yeah i saw the full video too and almost puked.. that shit's fucking gross.. Pretty crazy how they refused to accept a trade, that's a total kick in the pants.. but then again, is the opportunity to work overseas really worth it, when you know what could happen over there?

[Weapon_R]

It's tragic. The blood of innocent civilians is being spilled over Bush's agenda and Haliburton's (and the like) paycheck.

[autobodygal]

It is absolutely insanity, all that ever comes out of this kind of bullshit power playing is innocent victims. Retaliation against each other by using innocent people isn't solving anything, certainly not making the situation any better. The whole things makes me sick. :barf:

[Zephyr]

I think Bush basically dug the world into a hole that might last a long time... Bush needs to step down, I wonder if Kerry can do any better. It's so disgusting with that video, I just saw parts of it on the news, I cant believe the world is becomming like this...

[Ekliptix]

I have not watched it, and I'm not going to, but here it is:

http://nerdfish.org/iraq2vediom.wmv

WARNING: VIDEO IS *EXTREMELY* GRAPHIC IN NATURE

[redline_13000]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3694521.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3684381.stm

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=1883

maybe next time, they'll think twice about raping Iraqi women and torturing prisoners who have never been tried for any crimes.

I hope they continue to do this to every fucken punk thats in iraq and not an iraqi. They want to rape iraqi women and torture the iraqi people, their dicks should be chopped off before their heads.:thumbsdow

[finboy]

Originally posted by Ekliptix
I have not watched it, and I'm not going to, but here it is:

http://nerdfish.org/iraq2vediom.wmv

my graphics on my computer are messed, but the sound and what little image i had, thats messed up

[Z_Fan]

Well, this whole thing with the Iraqi prisoner mistreatment is a joke. The Geneva Convention prisoner treatment rules piss me off. Mostly because they are *OLD*. The world is a very different place, and the rules of 'war' need to be updated to reflect this. That is, 'kill' or 'be killed' and it's that simple. If the US or any country has to 'abuse' people to extract information which may save lifes, so be it.

The prisoners aren't really being mistreated. Not in my opinion. They are being intimidated, provoked, harassed and humiliated in order to extract information. BIG DEAL! These people you have to remember are *NOT* the common Iraqi citizen being tortured and maimed. (That I think would be wrong!) These are largely the people who are responsible for killing US soldiers, planning attacks, providing supplies for attacks, etc. The whole thing is way out of control as far as the media goes, and the spin they put on things. YES YES, lets hang a few US military personel for this shit, and lets move on. But reality is, this is the actions of FEW causing a judgement on the WHOLE. If the US has a few yahoos out there, so what. That's part of it, you can't really stop it from happening. It will happen. It's a war. It's not a fair representation of the country or its goals in IRAQ.

The other thing is that really pisses me off is that the Iraqi 'rebels' willingly kill innocent US citizens, cutting off their heads, shooting them, burning bodies, torturing and maiming in a public venue. I mean come on, what the fuck are we thinking that the 'mistreatment' of these prisoners even starts to compare to that kind of treatment. It's crazy...

It's not like I personally could do 'any' of those things, but I can't sit back and be a total hypocrit and say that what a few US soldiers has done is 'bad'. I'm sure that a few of these guys got to see their friends killed by some Iraqi "rebel" and you know what? If they wanna see some Iraqi gagged, nakid and slightly humiliated, hey, BIG DEAL. It's war...minor comapred to the guy who just lost his fucking head...

[BebeAphrodite]

*sigh*
too disturbing
absolutely disgusting

[spike98]

Originally posted by redline_13000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3694521.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3684381.stm

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=1883

maybe next time, they'll think twice about raping Iraqi women and torturing prisoners who have never been tried for any crimes.

I hope they continue to do this to every fucken punk thats in iraq and not an iraqi. They want to rape iraqi women and torture the iraqi people, their dicks should be chopped off before their heads.:thumbsdow


Sure what the US troops did is wrong, i am with you there. But the senseless MURDER of a non-military person is not right at all.

That could have been your cousin, uncle, FATHER. To think you are going overseas to help repair 15 years of dispair and dictatorship under sadams rule and you end up getting you head taking off. Like these extremest are pansys. They can't even be MAN enough to show there face. And i would like to see them take a soilder hostage. I am sure a navy seal or canada special ops would have torn them all a new ass.

But not they go after an innocent. I do give the poor guy props in a small way though. He showed no fear. He was a rock to the bitter end.

Things like this make me want to call up the nearest black market vendor and order up a nuke or two. Set the timer and send it over. I think they should just make a new parking lot for the middle east.

[JordanLotoski]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
Well, this whole thing with the Iraqi prisoner mistreatment is a joke. The Geneva Convention prisoner treatment rules piss me off. Mostly because they are *OLD*. The world is a very different place, and the rules of 'war' need to be updated to reflect this. That is, 'kill' or 'be killed' and it's that simple. If the US or any country has to 'abuse' people to extract information which may save lifes, so be it.

The prisoners aren't really being mistreated. Not in my opinion. They are being intimidated, provoked, harassed and humiliated in order to extract information. BIG DEAL! These people you have to remember are *NOT* the common Iraqi citizen being tortured and maimed. (That I think would be wrong!) These are largely the people who are responsible for killing US soldiers, planning attacks, providing supplies for attacks, etc. The whole thing is way out of control as far as the media goes, and the spin they put on things. YES YES, lets hang a few US military personel for this shit, and lets move on. But reality is, this is the actions of FEW causing a judgement on the WHOLE. If the US has a few yahoos out there, so what. That's part of it, you can't really stop it from happening. It will happen. It's a war. It's not a fair representation of the country or its goals in IRAQ.

The other thing is that really pisses me off is that the Iraqi 'rebels' willingly kill innocent US citizens, cutting off their heads, shooting them, burning bodies, torturing and maiming in a public venue. I mean come on, what the fuck are we thinking that the 'mistreatment' of these prisoners even starts to compare to that kind of treatment. It's crazy...

It's not like I personally could do 'any' of those things, but I can't sit back and be a total hypocrit and say that what a few US soldiers has done is 'bad'. I'm sure that a few of these guys got to see their friends killed by some Iraqi "rebel" and you know what? If they wanna see some Iraqi gagged, nakid and slightly humiliated, hey, BIG DEAL. It's war...minor comapred to the guy who just lost his fucking head...


nicely said man..i agree..

[Zephyr]

iono why, kill bill had something like this but it was fake, but the fact that its real is really scaring the shit out of me omg the video is AHHHHHHHHH

[spike98]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
Well, this whole thing with the Iraqi prisoner mistreatment is a joke. The Geneva Convention prisoner treatment rules piss me off. Mostly because they are *OLD*. The world is a very different place, and the rules of 'war' need to be updated to reflect this. That is, 'kill' or 'be killed' and it's that simple. If the US or any country has to 'abuse' people to extract information which may save lifes, so be it.

The prisoners aren't really being mistreated. Not in my opinion. They are being intimidated, provoked, harassed and humiliated in order to extract information. BIG DEAL! These people you have to remember are *NOT* the common Iraqi citizen being tortured and maimed. (That I think would be wrong!) These are largely the people who are responsible for killing US soldiers, planning attacks, providing supplies for attacks, etc. The whole thing is way out of control as far as the media goes, and the spin they put on things. YES YES, lets hang a few US military personel for this shit, and lets move on. But reality is, this is the actions of FEW causing a judgement on the WHOLE. If the US has a few yahoos out there, so what. That's part of it, you can't really stop it from happening. It will happen. It's a war. It's not a fair representation of the country or its goals in IRAQ.

The other thing is that really pisses me off is that the Iraqi 'rebels' willingly kill innocent US citizens, cutting off their heads, shooting them, burning bodies, torturing and maiming in a public venue. I mean come on, what the fuck are we thinking that the 'mistreatment' of these prisoners even starts to compare to that kind of treatment. It's crazy...

It's not like I personally could do 'any' of those things, but I can't sit back and be a total hypocrit and say that what a few US soldiers has done is 'bad'. I'm sure that a few of these guys got to see their friends killed by some Iraqi "rebel" and you know what? If they wanna see some Iraqi gagged, nakid and slightly humiliated, hey, BIG DEAL. It's war...minor comapred to the guy who just lost his fucking head...




Couldn't have said it better myself!

[subdermal]

I hope they continue to do this to every fucken punk thats in iraq and not an iraqi. They want to rape iraqi women and torture the iraqi people, their dicks should be chopped off before their heads.
I don't usually say this kind of thing to random people on the internet that I don't know, but you sir are entirely a fucking idiot. Tell you what - since you've got such a firm grasp on the realities of the situation, why don't you go over there and put your vast widom and superior intellect to good use and fix the problem yourself. Or would you rather hide behind your computer screen and cheer on the murder of innocents? The guy wasn't a rapist, he was a fucking contractor working for a living. Yes terrible things have been done... by both sides and to suggest that the perpetuation of these kinds of crimes is any kind of solution to the problem paints you as not only an ignorant , ill-informed shortsighted zealot but as a fucking hypocritical coward as well.

Disgusting.

[redline_13000]

Like I said, every american soldier, civilian, whatever, should get the fuck out of someone elses country or should get his head sliced off.

[rice_eater]

FUCK those cocksuckers

[JordanLotoski]

Originally posted by redline_13000
Like I said, every american soldier, civilian, whatever, should get the fuck out of someone elses country or should get his head sliced off.

ahahaha so what all the US leaves..and what the taliban takes over and continues to kill rape and beat innocent iraqi's?

thats the dumbest comment i have ever heard......imagin we said that in canada..if your not canadian get out

the US is trying belive it or not to make things better..sure u all see a different agenda, but you dont work for the US government

[BebeAphrodite]

Originally posted by subdermal

I don't usually say this kind of thing to random people on the internet that I don't know, but you sir are entirely a fucking idiot. Tell you what - since you've got such a firm grasp on the realities of the situation, why don't you go over there and put your vast widom and superior intellect to good use and fix the problem yourself. Or would you rather hide behind your computer screen and cheer on the murder of innocents? The guy wasn't a rapist, he was a fucking contractor working for a living. Yes terrible things have been done... by both sides and to suggest that the perpetuation of these kinds of crimes is any kind of solution to the problem paints you as not only an ignorant , ill-informed shortsighted zealot but as a fucking hypocritical coward as well.

Disgusting.

:werd:

[MK3HKS]

USA can go fuck'em self!!

media is hiding the FACTS....makin America look like a hero:guns:

[rogue]

redline you are a fucking idiot and i wish you could feel the fear and pain that the poor innocent young man in the video felt. I see your last name is hasan i suggest you refrain from posting such idiotic and insensative thoughts or opinions as it will not do any good for the reputation of people of middle eastern decent as most of them are sicked by this i am sure but idiots like you dont help the image they are trying to protect that they are peaceful and patient people who want nothing more then to stop all this savagery and madness.

[rogue]

usa did what is politically and moraly wrong, Iraqis have done what is unholy and inhumane there is a huge differnce

[redline_13000]

Its war man, if those americans are going to rape an iraqi mans wife,mother, sister etc, hes gonna kill him. I would do the same, war or not. I should have rephrased earlier, i wished it wasnt that contractor that got killed, rather those pig soldiers.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by redline_13000
Like I said, every american soldier, civilian, whatever, should get the fuck out of someone elses country or should get his head sliced off.

I know what ur saying, just rephrase it.. i think thats y some ppl r like "wtf r u talkign about" but yea, i agree america should get the fuck out...

[xkon]

thats horrible....

[subdermal]

USA can go fuck'em self!!

media is hiding the FACTS....makin America look like a hero

Uhh so the media reported on the abuse of Iraqi prisoners to make the US look better? I'm confused. I will agree that this war, which shuldn't have been started in the first place, has been tragedy of errors from the start. Bush's motives are more than likely entirely self-serving, and Iraq would not have been in under the torturous rule of Saddam if it weren't for CIA interference in the first place. I agree that American media (and as a side effect, Canadian media) are incredibly biased towards US interests.

But I hardly think the US is looking very heroic right now, in anyone's media, and even if the entire world was fooled I don't see how decapitating some guy is going to help endear people to one's cause.

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Zephyr

america should get the fuck out...

I agree with this in general... they should have really never been there in the first place. But here's a thought that makes me wonder:

Right now prisoners have to worry about getting posed for embarrassing pictures and being physically assaulted by US authorities. Without those authorities, the entire population would have to worry about getting their heads chopped off by religious fanatics. Which is worse?

[Zephyr]

not every person here in the states agree with the war, but once bush came to the hot seat, it was very obvious that was his main goal...

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by subdermal
Tell you what - since you've got such a firm grasp on the realities of the situation, why don't you go over there and put your vast widom and superior intellect to good use and fix the problem yourself. Or would you rather hide behind your computer screen and cheer on the murder of innocents?

Why don't you take your own advice? Since you have such a firm grasp to be able to provide commentary on the viewpoints of other members, perhaps you also possess the ability to solve the problems and allegations of rape, torture, and other disgusting things that are taking place over there. Or is your only retort to challenge others to do that, when you have provided no viable solutions or suggestions? There are two sides to every story. The four "innocent" civilians killed in Fallujah were ex special operatives - thats right, they killed and perhaps tortured and conducted many more disgusting actions than most American soldiers there - but you can keep thinking that the likes of Haliburton are there to rebuild Iraq - like they give a fuck about that country to begin with.


Originally posted by MIWYFSHOT

ahahaha so what all the US leaves..and what the taliban takes over and continues to kill rape and beat innocent iraqi's?


:confused: Newsflash for the genius pool out there - the Taliban is in an entirely different country, thousands of kilometers away. But you knew that, right?

[supramk3]

i believe that those fucking Americans should leave the country, imagine irag coming into Canada and taking over, and raping women, sisters, and torturing people of ur family who are inocent and have nuttin to do with this fighting.

the whole point is iraq's can deal with there own problems and what you hear about saddam and osama is just cbc crap not all of it is true.

Americans think if they go into iraq the will fix shit they wont only causes more shit, look at palestine and israel a neverending battle.

about tha video it is very disturbing and it shouldn't happen to inocent people bu tif that guy had a background of being part of the army then he deserved it, they way the went about killing him is harsh,but it is all part of war and it is not right but either is throwing down bombs from a plane on inocent people.

Americans should get the fuck out and there is no question about that, and i believe the iraq's then will; take care of there own country there own way good or bad.

[subdermal]

Weapon_R I think you read way too much into my post. One, I never said anything about the four murdered civilians beign innocent, nor did I ever say that Halliburton was there with only pure intentions. That would be retarded, and I'm not sure where you picked up that that was what I was trying to say, espeically since I never mentioned either in any way.

I still stand by my statements though. To sit here in relative safety and cheer on the brutal murder of a civilian is disgusting and cowardly, and I will continue to provide such apparently revolutionary and confusing commentary any time I see it happen until I am convinced otherwise.

Nobody should be getting raped, beheaded or slaughtered wholesale in Iraq, or anywhere else. I'm not sure how that sentiment makes me the bad guy, but if you feel that way I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by subdermal
Weapon_R I think you read way too much into my post. One, I never said anything about the four murdered civilians beign innocent, nor did I ever say that Halliburton was there with only pure intentions. That would be retarded, and I'm not sure where you picked up that that was what I was trying to say, espeically since I never mentioned either in any way.

I still stand by my statements though. To sit here in relative safety and cheer on the brutal murder of a civilian is disgusting and cowardly, and I will continue to provide such apparently revolutionary and confusing commentary any time I see it happen until I am convinced otherwise.


To you, it may be disgusting and cowardly. To me, it's a drop in a bucket. The death of thousands of Iraqi civilians has hardly caused any commotion, yet the death of 4 contractors and another civilian last night has brought about controversy. The ignorance of the thousands of people who have not been able to sleep for almost a year now, and those who have been killed by U.S. bombs, is both disgusting and cowardly.

[Orbie]

I don't want to watch the video either, seeing someone's head cut off is definitely not on the top of my must see list.

I don't want to get involved in the whole political debate here, but just out of curiosity for those who have seen the video...do they really cut his head off with a knife? or is it like one fell swoop with a machete or something?

Just curious as I'm supposing the hostage was alive up to the beheading, so I have this really disturbing image of him getting his head sawed off with a knife screaming till the end...just wanted to see if my imagination is put to lunch, although I have a bad feeling it wasn't...

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Weapon_R

The death of thousands of Iraqi civilians has hardly caused any commotion,
A tragedy unto itself, and a failing of the supposedly free press.

yet the death of 4 contractors and another civilian last night has brought about controversy.As well it should.
The ignorance of the thousands of people who have not been able to sleep for almost a year now, and those who have been killed by U.S. bombs, is both disgusting and cowardly.
Somewhat agreed, although I don't know how much you can fault a general populace grown accustomed to being spoon-fed their opinion of the world for not digging deeper than their usual sources. At least to some extent, I think. I never said Redline's comment was the only disgusting and cowardly thing in the world.

Oh and I do have a solution, although its not viable given the failings of human nature - everyone get the hell over their religions, realize that people are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors, and Americans vote for Kerry :P

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by subdermal
Americans vote for Kerry :P

Quite honestly the BEST suggestion i've heard all day :D

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Orbie

I don't want to get involved in the whole political debate here, but just out of curiosity for those who have seen the video...do they really cut his head off with a knife? or is it like one fell swoop with a machete or something?



Don't watch it if you have a weak stomach. It's not a sweeping chop.

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Quite honestly the BEST suggestion i've heard all day :D Well at least we agree on something :thumbsup:

I ran across this today, you might find it interesting:
John Kerry is a douchebag but I'm voting for him anyway (.com) (http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/)
Nothing terribly earth-shaking but an amusing way to put it, and organized well.

[BebeAphrodite]

whoa.. a gf just asked for the link, i came on beyond to give it to her and she's gonna puke now cuz she was expecting a quick sweep...
she's horrified right now
how awful
-:cry:-

[finboy]

Originally posted by CuteAsianAngel
whoa.. a gf just asked for the link, i came on beyond to give it to her and she's gonna puke now cuz she was expecting a quick sweep...
she's horrified right now
how awful
-:cry:-

its a beheading, its obciously not going to be pretty.

[ALI BABA]

Bush went in there for Peace... YA MY FUCKEN ASS.. Fuck Bush and everyone who stands behind his back. He is just as bad as Bin Ladin and Hitler. He killed so many innocent civilians and not one fucken person would have the ballz to stand up to him. Just imagine iraqi men in Canada and the US kidnaping and raping children as young as 9 years old and innocent people everyday like come on.. Bush is a fucken Criminal and should back out of Iraq and leave the Arab world to deal with it not him.

[Maxt]

Kinda funny how the when its done in the name of Alla how they have to cover their faces, what are they scared of?... The USA tries to fight wars with one arm tied behind its back, and is held to account for everything it does, however seldom is that true for its opponents, maybe Americans should start kidnapping muslims in the US and start cutting their heads off on TV in the name of Christ, wonder how that would go down, I can't beleive there are sympathizer's out there after see that, I don't agree with Bush's war, however there is a battlefield, and then there are civilians, that was jsut cowardly...Maxt

[Toma]

Ahhh, my heart bleeds. YOu kill a half million Iraqi kids, a few hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, then you think you are gonna walk in there and make money off the poor fuckers?? lol

You don't wanna get killed in Iraq? Stay out. He knew the risks, but the promise of the green stopped him from seeing things logically.

[subdermal]

Originally posted by ALI BABA
kidnaping and raping children as young as 9 years old and innocent people everyday like come on..

Originally posted by Toma
YOu kill a half million Iraqi kids, a few hundred thousand Iraqi civilians,

Do either of you have any references to back up these claims, or do they just sound good when justifying your hatred?


You don't wanna get killed in Iraq? Stay out. He knew the risks, but the promise of the green stopped him from seeing things logically.

Actually a good friend of mine is on the waiting list to get sent out there. He is an ex-marine so I guess in your mind he'll start the raping the minute the plane lands? Hmm let's see they're sending people into a war zone, perhaps some military training would be a good thing for these people to have under their belts. He's going over to be a computer tech, rebuilding networks and such. I can guarantee you he's no special ops killing machine, he spent the last 8 years behind a desk and I watched him do the last half of it. By the way, in the Marines he was a medic. Hardly the personification of Satan, and a good guy who definitely does not deserve violent treatment of any kind. And yes, I tried to talk him out of it.

Some of my original text deleted after I realized it could easily be misconstrued. The point I wanted to make is that religious fundamentalism is a handicap to any situation. This applies to any religion and any situation. My sincere apologies if anyone was offended by misunderstanding my intent.

[JustinL]

Originally posted by subdermal

Do either of you have any references to back up these claims, or do they just sound good when justifying your hatred?


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Its more like 10 000, which is still way too high IMO. I just want to remind everyone that you only see one perspective of the news.

[subdermal]

Originally posted by JustinL


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Its more like 10 000, which is still way too high IMO. I just want to remind everyone that you only see one perspective of the news.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/background.htm

This includes civilian deaths resulting from the breakdown in law and order, and deaths due to inadequate health care or sanitation So even that number includes Iraqis killed by other Iraqis, and also does not take into account how many would have been killed under Saddam.

I agree, still way too high.

[izzoblitzo]

I'm actually for the war.

I mean, if you look throughout history, the USA has always been critisized for going to war, but yet, in every major war, they are flexing their military muscles. They are the only ones that have the guts (money/technology/man power) in the world to do so amid critisizim. I mean, I cant imagine what the world would be like today if they didnt intervene. Nazi Germany develops the atom bomb, Japan takes over China and other Asian states, Cuba or whatever is free to distribute Russian nukes, all of korea and vietnam is under communist rule, Kuwait is under Iraq rule, and more oil/resources means more money to produce or fund terrorist activity.

I cant imagine anyone but the United States standing up to the challenge. What could have been is ultimately diverted. The United States put their reputation on the line. This war is ultimately the make or break scenario of presidentcy for W.Bush. I can't imagine how the Palestine/Israeli conflict would be like, the Somalia civil war.

War is not the way to go. But sometimes, the only way to go.

I mean, I cant imagine the world of tomorrow if the United States didnt go in to liberate Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, no other country in the world would step in to do that. And these terrorist cells will only continue to grow. Bin Laden and Saddam were wealthy people.. and what you dont know through the media, is that they probabaly are involved in weapons of mass destruction in one way or another. I cant believe they wouldnt be.

All the countries in the world love to play the blame game on the USA, but what are they doing to help? When the USA succeeds, everyone wants in to help rebuild.. they all want a piece. But when times arnt going so well, everyone is pointing figures at the US and dont want a part in it.

On a side note, the US is dealing with all kinds of situations elsewhere.. Korea, Russia, Israel.. and prolly keeping tabs on a few others as well, at the same time trying to defend themselves and their friends (canada). There's just so much going on right now, and I'd hate to see North Korea develop a nuke and blast South Korea or the Japanese or inevitably, North America.

[Z_Fan]

izzoblitzo: I agree with the concept of what you are saying. The USA is always easy to criticize. Thankfully they do have the balls to step up to the plate, irregardless of what other countries think, to ultimately tame situations that could have been catastrophic for the very same countries that condemn their actions. How ironic is that? They've been doing it for a long time, and history proves they are a heroic country. Not without their faults, but generally heroic, like Canadians. Fighting for Freedom, and fighting to protect freedom, even if it's not in our own back yard.

We are living now in a world of 'why wait?' - and you have to act, or eventually yeah, someone is gonna fly a missile with a nuclear bomb in to a major city. I think the world needs to take action to ensure this can't happen. You have to understand the mentality of some of these people (like the 5 in the video) -> this takes some very strange human characteristics to do (more than just a deep hatrid), and it's these kind of people who wouldn't think twice about launching a nuke or nukes capable of killing millions. If they had them, and when they get them, they WILL use them. If you're young right now, remember this, because soon enough, it'll ring true. It WILL happen, it's just time ticking off a clock...slowly, but surely...ticking. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, maybe 25 years...not sure, but it's coming... as technology increases, and the greed of humanity increases, eventually the right people will be in the right place whereby abuse of money, resources and technology will conspire to create the largest loss of human life in a single incident in the history of earth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not running around saying the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. *BUT* I'm a realist. This is a possibility. So you have to entertain it, and most importantly thankfully SOMEONE (aka USA) actually makes an attempt to avert it, to slow it down.

Ok, so here's my most recent point of view on this whole prisoner mistreatment BS.

Their 'goals' and the 'mistreatment' of IRAQI prisoners IS NOT RELATED, not even slightly!! The reality is that it is a small number of 'bad apples' who have carried out the alleged 'mistreatments'. Yet, the ENTIRE WORLD (virtually all allied countries) have condemned the ENTIRE US COUNTRY as being 'bad' people with the wrong goals in mind inside IRAQ.

IF that is the case, which it is - as you see all kinds of countries saying 'tisk tisk on you USA' and basically group all Americans as being 'bad' -> Well then, since we just saw 5 people clearly take the life of an innocent in a most savage fashion, should the world then condemn the entire population of IRAQ based on the actions of those 5? Why shouldn't we then condemn all of IRAQ, like the rest of the world has just done to the USA, based on the actions of a very FEW???

You have to respect the USA's restraint...I mean, they could just decide to drop 50000 pounds of bombs for every American life taken. And they could do it. But, they don't. ;-)

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by redline_13000
[url]

I hope they continue to do this to every fucken punk thats in iraq and not an iraqi. They want to rape iraqi women and torture the iraqi people, their dicks should be chopped off before their heads.:thumbsdow

Why so they can get back to the good old days when women were raped and killed by Iraqis freely?

:dunno:

"Under Saddam Hussein's regime women lack even the basic right to life. A 1990 decree allows male relatives to kill a female relative in the name of honour without any punishment."


I think they should let the women of Iraq run the country :thumbsup: AND NO I am not condoning rape by anyone US or Iraqi, just think its ironic is all.

[B17a]

I read an interesting article yesterday where a former Iraqi prisoner was saying that it wasnt' so much the torture that sucked, it was the sexual humiliation that made them feel like a woman. YEs, he was ashamed that they were humiliated like a woman! And humiliated BY a woman.

I do agree with Toma's point though, if you're not looking to get killed, stay the fuck away!! Especially now, knowing that there will be vengence for the prison abuses.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by subdermal



Do either of you have any references to back up these claims, or do they just sound good when justifying your hatred?



[/i]

http://www.rense.com/general2/irsd.htm

Again, my heart bleeds for the one contractor killed...:rolleyes:

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


http://www.rense.com/general2/irsd.htm Well, there's the half million Iraqi kids mentioned earlier. Good to see someone with sources to back up some of these claims.

The facts as presented are terrible, no doubt. What was the Iraqi leadership doing for these people? Oh right, living in more palaces than they could fill, building up their army, and killing anyone who opposed them. Obviously it's the US government's fault. Every one of those tombstones should say "Courtesy of Saddam Hussein".


Again, my heart bleeds for the one contractor killed...:rolleyes: Whether or not one's heart should bleed, do you think his death was a good thing? Does it help to solve the problem? Does it portray the Iraqis in a positive light, or as a people who can be trusted with self-determination?

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
http://www.rense.com/general2/irsd.htm

Again, my heart bleeds for the one contractor killed...:rolleyes:

Gee, they had two options, sanctions or invasion. Both have been tried, and neither worked. Try blaming their leaders for raping their own country and killing their own people.

Or better yet, come up with a better idea.

Khyron

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Khyron


Gee, they had two options, sanctions or invasion. Both have been tried, and neither worked. Try blaming their leaders for raping their own country and killing their own people.

Or better yet, come up with a better idea.

Khyron

Why would I blame their leaders, when the sanctions have been blamed for the deaths of these children? I have blamed, and will continue to blame those responsible, instead of reverting to a common scapegoat as you would like me to do.

And better yet, come up with a solution? Drop the sanctions, and allow Iraq to become the developed country it once was. At one time, per capita gdp was one of the highest in the region, the infrastructure as you can tell was some of the best in the world, and the literacy rate and mortality rate were excellent. The invasion of this country and the deaths of huge numbers of people are directly the result of the United States.

The United States has killed more Iraqis in a decade than Saddam Hussein has ever killed in his 30 year reign. Whose the real killer?

[izzoblitzo]

One of Saddam's sons (i think his name was Udai or something)was known as a ruthless dictator and rapist. He thrived on the power or feeling he got when he raped women. I read a story about this about the time he was killed in a gunfight with the Americans. It went on to say that he was having a party at his palace, and he invited many guests. And a distant relative (also a ranking official in his army) brought along his wife. And Udai wanted to have sex with his wife. But the guy said no. So what he did was have his guards chain the guy up, while Udai raped the dude's wife in front of him.:thumbsdow

I can understand how Iraqi's feel the threat of Americans, as they are the 'invading' force. And how they might feel angry when the Americans kill innocent people when they try to bomb the resistance, or mistaken identity or whatever.

But is living under Saddam's regieme so much better? The Iraq people dont realize that the Americans are trying to bring back a diplomatic system.. schools, healthcare, freedom. Whereas back in the regieme, nobody had money, people were tortured, raped, gone missing just because they looked at a soldier/military official the wrong way. All this suffering, while Saddam sat on his gold toilet in one of his many Marble and Jade Palaces flossing his teeth with an ivory toothpick.

It's sickening to see these Iraq's treat the Americans this way. Like, there's of course, the ones that put on a show in front of the cameras (remember the boy that hit the fallen Saddam statue with his shoe? what about when the family stomped on the burning american humvee while praising the insurgents?) I dont think the people of Iraq know what is going on. They've just always been told the Americans are bad, and when people die from bombings, the Americans are to blame. Jeeze, those people were in the wrong place at the wrong time.:guns:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by subdermal
The facts as presented are terrible, no doubt. What was the Iraqi leadership doing for these people? Oh right, living in more palaces than they could fill, building up their army, and killing anyone who opposed them. Obviously it's the US government's fault. Every one of those tombstones should say "Courtesy of Saddam Hussein".

Whether or not one's heart should bleed, do you think his death was a good thing? Does it help to solve the problem? Does it portray the Iraqis in a positive light, or as a people who can be trusted with self-determination?

Sanctions were imposed that would not allow basic medicine or food supplies into the country. Regardless of whether the Iraqi leaders wanted to, they could not bring these supplies into the country. The much talked about Oil for Food campaign limited revenues to about 2 billion per year - that's peanuts for a country that has about the same population as Canada. The Canadian govenment "loses" more than that each year.

There is no denying the fact that the leadership was corrupt, but that has gone on in every country, in every government, for as long as time could tell. The death of the individual sent a clear message to both American citizens and troops alike that they are not wanted in the country. It was unfortunate, there is no denying that - but it was a far cry from the abuse and torture that the Americans have caused Iraqi detainees and citizens throughout the past year, and beyond.

By the way, the right to self-determination is not a right that is dependent on an invading occupier's trust or approval. The right to self-determination is a right that must be afforded to the Iraqi people, without "approval" from another state. That wouldn't make it self-determination, would it now?

[izzoblitzo]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Why would I blame their leaders, when the sanctions have been blamed for the deaths of these children? I have blamed, and will continue to blame those responsible, instead of reverting to a common scapegoat as you would like me to do.

And better yet, come up with a solution? Drop the sanctions, and allow Iraq to become the developed country it once was. At one time, per capita gdp was one of the highest in the region, the infrastructure as you can tell was some of the best in the world, and the literacy rate and mortality rate were excellent. The invasion of this country and the deaths of huge numbers of people are directly the result of the United States.

The United States has killed more Iraqis in a decade than Saddam Hussein has ever killed in his 30 year reign. Whose the real killer?

but how do we know about these killings? We only get the numbers the Americans apparently 'killed' through Aljazeera media. This doesnt account for all the executions/killings/tortures/rapes that go unaccounted for because back then, people wernt willing to speak up, and go missing when they do.

Udai tortured the players on the national soccer team when they didnt perform. Something like he chopped off a leg of one of his players, made him go home with it.

[finboy]

Originally posted by izzoblitzo
I'm actually for the war.

I mean, if you look throughout history, the USA has always been critisized for going to war, but yet, in every major war, they are flexing their military muscles. They are the only ones that have the guts (money/technology/man power) in the world to do so amid critisizim. I mean, I cant imagine what the world would be like today if they didnt intervene. Nazi Germany develops the atom bomb, Japan takes over China and other Asian states, Cuba or whatever is free to distribute Russian nukes, all of korea and vietnam is under communist rule, Kuwait is under Iraq rule, and more oil/resources means more money to produce or fund terrorist activity.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Sanctions were imposed that would not allow basic medicine or food supplies into the country. Regardless of whether the Iraqi leaders wanted to, they could not bring these supplies into the country. The much talked about Oil for Food campaign limited revenues to about 2 billion per year - that's peanuts for a country that has about the same population as Canada. The Canadian govenment "loses" more than that each year. And yet even on that budget, Saddam was able to maintain a network of lavish palaces from which he could watch his citizens starve in luxury.


There is no denying the fact that the leadership was corrupt, but that has gone on in every country, in every government, for as long as time could tell. Absolutely true, but you're equating any minor corruption (policeman lets the mayor off without a speeding ticket) with a 30 year bloodbath.


The death of the individual sent a clear message to both American citizens and troops alike that they are not wanted in the country. At best it sent a message that the US are not wanted by a small minority of savage animals within a larger population, something that was already well-known. I didn't hear anything about the Iraqis getting together to vote on the suitability of this display. If these are the people that will take over when the US leaves, the average Iraqi citizen is probably better off now than they will be then.



By the way, the right to self-determination is not a right that is dependent on an invading occupier's trust or approval. Maybe it shouldn't be, but in this case it is. And even looking at it from a strictly utilitarian viewpoint, this strikes me as a very ineffective way of making their case.

[B17a]

Originally posted by Weapon_R

The United States has killed more Iraqis in a decade than Saddam Hussein has ever killed in his 30 year reign. Whose the real killer?

Correct me if I'm wrong but were the sanctions not issued by the UN from the first Gulf War? As to the insurgents, it should be noted many of them are not even Iraqi's but terrorists from other nations who are fighting as a unified front.

[Toma]

Originally posted by subdermal
[B]


Do either of you have any references to back up these claims, or do they just sound good when justifying your hatred?


Yeah, it's called the Red Cross and the UN. Maybe you have heard of them.

[Toma]

Sanctions.... US bullied other members to push them through via blatant bribes or threats.....just like with all things they do in the UN.

Isreal has more UN order against them then anyone, yet the US keeps blocking or veto-ing.

Iraq was a great place prior to 1990....like stated earlier, one of the highest GDP's in the area, education better then the US.

This constant "rape their own people" garbage. Morons. Pay attention. Iraq killed alot of KURDS living in Iraq. The same people that Turkey to this day slaughters, rapes and kills with US supplied gunships, while ebing a member of Nato. It was wrong to do so. It is wrong to do so. However, Kurds are a homeless people, and No one wants to give them their own country as of yet. Turkey is refusing, and so is Iraq. Do nto for one second beleive they were completely innocent. Though the civilian casualites are wrong.

Also, it is widely accepted that if there was a supervised election in Iraq prior to the war, Saddam would have won.

The US is the only terrorsit in that area.

[cerebal]

yo the US should have seen something like this coming after what they did to the prisioners

[Melinda]

As was said earlier in the thread about media hiding facts. I 100% agree with that. I know for a fact that the american government has had newspapers shut down and reporters/photographers fired for making the states look bad by exposing stuff they were trying to hide. I did a huge case study on it and it makes me sick what the government gets away with where the media is concerned. They even had a hardcore set of ground rules about what they could and couldnt show when doing their coverage when they went to iraq to cover the war. Otherwise they were sent home and usually fired on the spot. :thumbsdow

[izzoblitzo]

well.. it's a iffy kind of issue.

It's only a select group of individuals that thought it was a kind of redemption by taking out humiliation on prisoners. It does not reflect the nation as a whole, however, it does show unprofessionallisim and utter disregard of the military.

It was pretty drastic, and I dont think the death of an innocent american civilian was justified for 'humiliation' of iraqi prisoners though. chopping off his head, and broadcasting it on the internet for all to see even.

[Toma]

I think that what alot of you are not understanding is that "their" beliefs are different then ours. Not wrong, or right, but different.

This is "ancient Babylon" really. This is the place where an "eye for an eye" came from originally (King Hammurabi in the 1700's BC)

These were the people that believed that if you kill someones child, proper punishment would be to kill one of your children! If you stole something from someone, you got your arm chopped off!

Different today, but you can understand how the mindset is different....

We (the west) have terribly wronged Iraq, and have done so for 15 straight years....

People are catching on. 66% of Brits now believe britain should also pull out of Iraq (joining the countries that already have/are).

The US is withdrawing from areas where it is losing the battle, and allowing the old republican guard to take over!!

I think that the Americans will soon not have any choice but to get the fuck out....

[izzoblitzo]

Well, in my opinion, I dont think anybody will really understand why the war is being faught the way it is. Nobody in the world has the resources and man power to fight terrorism on their own. There's just no way for the Americans to just march into Iraq and expect to wipe out every terrorist there is. Just no way.

And the rebuilding process. Obviously, after liberating Iraq, the Americans will be expected to lead other nations into spending money to startup Iraq's economy again. Building schools, paving roads, running water, etc. But they can't expect the US to stay there and babysit them while they do their own thing. Impossible.

In time, we can only expect the United States to go into 'terrorist' states and liberate them every few years. When they leave Iraq, these terrorist cells will only grow and startup again.

[hjr]

well i have read all the posts here and the main thing i noticed is that a lot of people have the facts WRONG. Both sides. Make sure you folks know what your talking about when you make rash generalizations. (there are a few good posts here, but way too much ignorance)

[subdermal]

Originally posted by Toma

Yeah, it's called the Red Cross and the UN. Maybe you have heard of them. No, I'll have to go look those up :P

The Red Cross site has a ton of docs and none of them, that I saw, had any total number of Iraqi civilian deaths. I may however have missed it. The UN site I'm not even going to try to go through. We can argue numbers back and forth all day without getting anywhere. At some point they are an accurate reflection of the toll of war, and at another they are a handy, easily-remembered accompaniment to justify a pre-existing hatred. At least the UN and the RC might have numbers that might be worth believing; at this point I'm not buying anything either Al-Jazeera or CNN is selling.

My original point, from which I have strayed too far already, and the only thing I felt was worth bringing up in a political debate on a car forum of all places, is that after all the death and suffering (whether 10,000 or 10,000,000) that has already happened, it is pure insanity to hope for more.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by B17a


Correct me if I'm wrong but were the sanctions not issued by the UN from the first Gulf War? As to the insurgents, it should be noted many of them are not even Iraqi's but terrorists from other nations who are fighting as a unified front.

You're right. The sanctions were issued by the United Nations. Kind of like how the United Nations attacked Iraq with a 30 coalition force (read: 99.9% were American weapons and troops).

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
This constant "rape their own people" garbage. Morons. Pay attention. Iraq killed alot of KURDS living in Iraq. The same people that Turkey to this day slaughters, rapes and kills with US supplied gunships, while ebing a member of Nato. It was wrong to do so. It is wrong to do so. However, Kurds are a homeless people, and No one wants to give them their own country as of yet.

Kurds are trouble makers. The claim of sovereignty in Iraq is no more different than having a minority group in Canada lay claim to BC and Alberta and thinking that the rest of Canada should sit back and allow that. The Kurds should be looking at Turkey for land since they associate with them more than with Arabs, yet Turkey won't allow it, and neither will Iraq, and rightfully so.

[Z24_3.1]

Fucking punk american deserved that shit:thumbsup: .... his fault for being in there anyways...

I think every punk that steps into any middle eastern cuntry deserves today only if they try to harm....

but i say right on:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :guns:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[subdermal]

:english: :thumbsdow :bullshit:
I give up. I knew there was a reason I stayed out of this topic before.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Weapon_R

Kurds are trouble makers. The claim of sovereignty in Iraq is no more different than having a minority group in Canada lay claim to BC and Alberta and thinking that the rest of Canada should sit back and allow that. The Kurds should be looking at Turkey for land since they associate with them more than with Arabs, yet Turkey won't allow it, and neither will Iraq, and rightfully so.

And this is different from Palestinians how?

All Toma-the-broken-record can say is "get the fuck out" - if the US left tomorrow you think that would solve anything? And as for Iraq being a beautiful place, bullshit. At war with Iran, or getting ready to invade Kuwait.

Give the people a chance to not have to fear death and rape squads, and a non-corrupt legal system and who knows what can happen.

Khyron

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Z24_3.1
Fucking punk american deserved that shit:thumbsup: .... his fault for being in there anyways...

I think every punk that steps into any middle eastern cuntry deserves today only if they try to harm....

but i say right on:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :guns:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Good idea. And just for revenge, let's get in our pickup and beat to death the first Arab we see. I know he's not involved, but he must be middle eastern so he's responsible somehow.

Idiot.

Khyron

[Chester]

that was disgusting, i dont know how they could do something like that:thumbsdow

[Z_Fan]

Originally posted by Khyron


Good idea. And just for revenge, let's get in our pickup and beat to death the first Arab we see. I know he's not involved, but he must be middle eastern so he's responsible somehow.

Idiot.

Khyron

LMAO

I think that's a fair equivalent. Only, can't we still cut his head off too? We'll beat him first though...but not quite to death. I mean, we want to tie him up and make sure he bleeds real good when we decapitate our innocent! OK?

Z24_3.1 -> WTF are you thinking?

[Z24_3.1]

Listen u guys think ur tough or wanna act tough u fuking punks... then bring it anytime u want :D::D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D be more then happy....:thumbsup:

[B17a]

Originally posted by Z24_3.1
Listen u guys think ur tough or wanna act tough u fuking punks... then bring it anytime u want :D::D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D be more then happy....:thumbsup:

Dude, I hope you're kidding. You sounds like a young Al-Queda recruit! "big bad American, you think you're tough, I'll ram a plane into a building full of innocent people to show you!"

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Z24_3.1
Listen u guys think ur tough or wanna act tough u fuking punks... then bring it anytime u want :D::D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D be more then happy....:thumbsup:

Why don't you take your toughguy attitude and get out of this thread? This thread was filled with great debate between two opposing sides until morons like you came and took over. Unless you have something good to say, stay the fuck out. Thank you for your compliance :)

[phat97yukon]

That is the worst thing i have ever seen in my life, im sittin here with my buddy and we are tryin not to :barf: cuz of it, those guys are fucked up and twisted.........

[rogue]

again we jump off the topic of this thread. Yes to many the war is wrong and to many it is justified i dont doubt for a minute that bush (the dumbass) has alterior motives but iraq has been a bully in the area for decades fighting their neighbors everytime and everyway they have a chance and fighting their own people when they dont agree with their leaders actions. The area is so fucked up nothing can fix it if the americans stay the radical extremist undereducated "freedom fighters" will just keep recruiting and killing americans and iraqis who support the american action (if you havent noticed iraqi ambushes have killed more iraqis then americans) and if they leave the area will be over run by iranian funded militia from the east kurds from the north and extremists from Jordan and Syria the the west. What do you think will happen when they all stake claim in iraq now that it doesnt have a government and how do you think the iraqi natives will feel, we will have a bigger problem on our hands then. Either the UN has to get involved and try to work something out (even though for the last decade they are useless) or get a respectable joint arab league to clean it up but america wont do that as they wont have oil. So pretty much they are all fucked no matter what and they will be for our entire time here no point stressing about it as it is a lost cause. As for the civilian contracter who perished in such a miserable inhumane way it is not that another contractor died it was the manner in which he died that really disgusts people. They couldnt even kill him with one shot or even one sweep they forced him down and sawed off his head while he squirmed and screamed with a little fucking knife that you could prolly find in your kitchen NOW THAT is the part that pisses people off. Sorry to rant but it is frusterating.

[RickDaTuner]

i dunno what to say..... that was by far the most horrifying thing that i have ever watched, I feel like litteraly throwing up....


cant say much other than i think I could havent gone without watching that

[DC2uned]

Watching that video made me and my buddy fucking sick. For those of you like that redline fag, saying oh its all good becasue that americans deserve that kind of treatment, you need to get your damn heads check becasue you are just like those murderers. You don't belong in a civilized society.

[eckostyle]

in my opinion, a death is a death. both sides are murderers, both are ruthless. both rape, torture and kill. whats the difference between a beheading, and unloading a clip into a civillian. either way its a death, one method was just more painful. as for those stating that the americans were being "man enough" to invade iraq is being quite naive. the wars that the us has entered before had to do with their allies being in danger. at the time of this war, iraq was not waging war against anyone but itself (killing its people to help saddam build more palaces). then curious george comes in and tries to invade iraq, for many reasons (they COULD be: oil, living up to hi father's standards), but it definately was not to help "liberate" iraq. when throughout history has america cared about the shia ismailis being opressed in iraq? just now they decide that the shia's deserve peace and the suni's dont? to me it seems absurd. but back on topic, a death is a death. both sides take part in killing civillians, just the methods seem to be different, sometimes. thats my two cents (no need to reply to this post)

[DC2uned]

Originally posted by eckostyle
in my opinion, a death is a death. both sides are murderers, both are ruthless. both rape, torture and kill. whats the difference between a beheading, and unloading a clip into a civillian. either way its a death, one method was just more painful. as for those stating that the americans were being "man enough" to invade iraq is being quite naive. the wars that the us has entered before had to do with their allies being in danger. at the time of this war, iraq was not waging war against anyone but itself (killing its people to help saddam build more palaces). then curious george comes in and tries to invade iraq, for many reasons (they COULD be: oil, living up to hi father's standards), but it definately was not to help "liberate" iraq. when throughout history has america cared about the shia ismailis being opressed in iraq? just now they decide that the shia's deserve peace and the suni's dont? to me it seems absurd. but back on topic, a death is a death. both sides take part in killing civillians, just the methods seem to be different, sometimes. thats my two cents (no need to reply to this post)

The BIG difference is that the unloading of a clip in a iraqi "rebel" was not taped and done in a way to glorify the action. The actions they took show that they are not civilized, and i for one don't consider them more then dogs.

[eckostyle]

iraqi rebel? i said nothing about rebels...

and maybe they videotaped it to send some sort of message to bush ... not sure what tho, considering when i watched the video, i couldnt translate enough.

you dont know their intentions, you can only guess ... jumping to conclusions doesnt help a debate;)

[DC2uned]

Originally posted by eckostyle
iraqi rebel? i said nothing about rebels...

and maybe they videotaped it to send some sort of message to bush ... not sure what tho, considering when i watched the video, i couldnt translate enough.

you dont know their intentions, you can only guess ... jumping to conclusions doesnt help a debate;)

What other conclusion can you come to? They took a civilians head off to send a message? Give me a break. The american troops didn't take off iraqi peoples heads on tape to send a message to Saddam.

And all that BS about americans killing innocent children, show me an account of this occuring?

So would you think it is right for people in america to go up to iraqi people residing there and decapitate them on tape? According to you that is okay becasue all they are doing is sending a message to the iraqi rebels. Do you see how flawed your though process on this is?

[Maxt]

Really when you think about, doing that wasnt to bright, at a time when even stuff like the humilation pics from the Iraqi prison, made the US look bad, they bring out their own retaliation pic , that made the butch marine chick with the dog leash look like a fucking saint....The US was tarnished by the prison scandal, but now the world sees Al Qayda for what they are, cold blooded murderers...
Yes the US killed Iraqis, however some of you need to learn the difference between combatants and non combatants when throwing up the numbers of dead for pure shock value....
And its come to light that much of the supposed footage of rape and torture was just bunk, and the photos were staged to further demonize the US... The problem with debating this stuff, is to many people put their emotions into it, and stray from the facts..
And Toma, giving credibility to the UN? man , to much time over a open fuel bowl for you.....Maxt

[eckostyle]

Originally posted by DC2uned


What other conclusion can you come to? They took a civilians head off to send a message? Give me a break. The american troops didn't take off iraqi peoples heads on tape to send a message to Saddam.

And all that BS about americans killing innocent children, show me an account of this occuring?

So would you think it is right for people in america to go up to iraqi people residing there and decapitate them on tape? According to you that is okay becasue all they are doing is sending a message to the iraqi rebels. Do you see how flawed your though process on this is?

they didnt need to send a message to saddam, because saddam hadnt done anything to them.

and no its not right to just randomly go up to someone and decapitate them. for some odd reason i dont recall iraqi rebels invading america, killing military and civillians alike. so because of that, theres no reason for an american to go decapitate an iraqi because the iraqi rebels killed his dad or whatever.

please try to understand what im saying. the united states invaded iraq for no logical reason, except for maybe oil. in this invasion, many iraqi's were killed. in retaliation, they take the american civilians, and military (if they can), and kill them. im not saying any of this is right in any way, please get that through your head, nor am i trying to insult anyone. all i am saying is that this is in retalliation for what america did, and it wont stop until peace treaties are signed. as well keep in mind these are the actions of the newly oppressed group of iraqi's (the ones that werent oppressed under saddams rule).

*note: most of what i have said can be manipulated into other variations of my thoughts. unfortunately i'm not that great at expressing my thoughts through words.

[3G]

First off, I wish that was Bush instead of the contractor. I would have tied a rope to Bush's head, dragged it through the street, let ppl spit/step/piss on it then light it on fire.

USA should get out of the middle east because they only want the oil.:thumbsdow

All of the people saying "Oh we should go around and murder arabs in Canada, or bla bla bla" any of that shit. Do you have a reason to? What for? Just being in your country? If arabs were here to take over your country, killing your people, raping your daughters, wives, moms. sisters etc then go for it. But they are here to live, just like you are. I mean if I raped your sister/mom/daughter/wife you would kill me right? I know if someone even tryed it on my wife/sister/mom/daughter etc. I wouldn't just be-head them. Id torture them, beat them, burn them, chop their dick off then make them die a slow painful death.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by redline_13000
Like I said, every american soldier, civilian, whatever, should get the fuck out of someone elses country or should get his head sliced off.

I would love to see the chaos that would ensue if the whole world let the middle east do whatever it pleased. Since they all have small warring factions, there would be many small wars, eventually becoming a massive war, then a cheaply bought russian nuke would explode somewhere. Courtesy of Iraq, India, Pakistan, Israel, doesn't really matter. The radiation of this cheaply made russian nuke would go all over the Middle East, Northern Africa, Europe and the Western part of Asia.

So yea, please, lets take out all interventions...

Eughhh, I watched the first 20 seconds of that video and I can't bear to watch a poor guy on a seat in a room getting beheaded.

[88CRX]

so much bullshit in this thread.... redline what the fuck are you thinking?


i cant bring myself to watching this shit. makes me sick just thinking about it.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Mx6GtTurbo
All of the people saying "Oh we should go around and murder arabs in Canada, or bla bla bla" any of that shit. Do you have a reason to? What for? Just being in your country? If arabs were here to take over your country, killing your people, raping your daughters, wives, moms. sisters etc then go for it. But they are here to live, just like you are...snip

You missed the entire point. Taking out US civilians and beheading them on purpose is the same thing as attaking an Arab in Canada as far as "responsibility" goes. If it's OK to blame anyone from the US (including red cross workers and missionaries) which seems to be the theme with several people here, then it's ok to generalize and say all arabs are terrorists.

It's the same flawed logic, just pointed backwards.

I mean, even the suicide bombers, if they were blowing up soldiers and accidently killing a few civilians that were in the way, that's war. But grabbing some electrical guy or some journalist and executing him in such a gruesome way (and enjoying it I might add) makes them worse than anything the US has done.

Picture this - the US lines up 1000 civilian Iraqis and starts hanging them, 1 at a time. And they announce they won't stop until all the rebels surrender. THAT would be a horrible way to fight wouldn't it.

What's even more ironic is if Iraq really wants the US out, all they'd have to do is refrain from acting like savage warlords and setup a real government.

Khyron

[DC2uned]

Originally posted by Mx6GtTurbo
First off, I wish that was Bush instead of the contractor. I would have tied a rope to Bush's head, dragged it through the street, let ppl spit/step/piss on it then light it on fire.

USA should get out of the middle east because they only want the oil.:thumbsdow

All of the people saying "Oh we should go around and murder arabs in Canada, or bla bla bla" any of that shit. Do you have a reason to? What for? Just being in your country? If arabs were here to take over your country, killing your people, raping your daughters, wives, moms. sisters etc then go for it. But they are here to live, just like you are. I mean if I raped your sister/mom/daughter/wife you would kill me right? I know if someone even tryed it on my wife/sister/mom/daughter etc. I wouldn't just be-head them. Id torture them, beat them, burn them, chop their dick off then make them die a slow painful death.


Ok first off enough with the whole "the americans are killing/raping iraqi women and childern" there is no account of these things happening so therefore you can't say they are happening.

And second this man had nothing to do with the army. HE WAS THERE HELPING REBUILD IRAQI. so basically all the iraqi's managed to do was killing somebody that was offering help.

[DC2uned]

Originally posted by Khyron


You missed the entire point. Taking out US civilians and beheading them on purpose is the same thing as attaking an Arab in Canada as far as "responsibility" goes. If it's OK to blame anyone from the US (including red cross workers and missionaries) which seems to be the theme with several people here, then it's ok to generalize and say all arabs are terrorists.

It's the same flawed logic, just pointed backwards.

I mean, even the suicide bombers, if they were blowing up soldiers and accidently killing a few civilians that were in the way, that's war. But grabbing some electrical guy or some journalist and executing him in such a gruesome way (and enjoying it I might add) makes them worse than anything the US has done.

Picture this - the US lines up 1000 civilian Iraqis and starts hanging them, 1 at a time. And they announce they won't stop until all the rebels surrender. THAT would be a horrible way to fight wouldn't it.

What's even more ironic is if Iraq really wants the US out, all they'd have to do is refrain from acting like savage warlords and setup a real government.

Khyron

Exactly Khyron, well said.

[hjr]

truly, anyone who argues that this was justified in any way truly has not thought it through well enough. ANY civilized person should find this disgusting. Im not saying that what the US did was better or worse or similar in any way, im just saying, butchering a man for whatever reason, is wrong. Jew, arab, christian, american, iraqi. it doesnt matter. its wrong.

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by hjr
truly, anyone who argues that this was justified in any way truly has not thought it through well enough. ANY civilized person should find this disgusting. Im not saying that what the US did was better or worse or similar in any way, im just saying, butchering a man for whatever reason, is wrong. Jew, arab, christian, american, iraqi. it doesnt matter. its wrong.

Very well said, I couldn't agree more!

[3G]

Originally posted by Khyron


You missed the entire point. Taking out US civilians and beheading them on purpose is the same thing as attaking an Arab in Canada as far as "responsibility" goes. If it's OK to blame anyone from the US (including red cross workers and missionaries) which seems to be the theme with several people here, then it's ok to generalize and say all arabs are terrorists.



No dude, I didn't miss the point. The Americans are there to "bring the country together and get it back on its feet" or whatever the fuck Bush claims. They aren't there to live. The arab here are here to live, not bomb the country then "re-build" it. You've been watching too much CNN man.



Originally posted by DC2uned
Ok first off enough with the whole "the americans are killing/raping iraqi women and childern" there is no account of these things happening so therefore you can't say they are happening.

And second this man had nothing to do with the army. HE WAS THERE HELPING REBUILD IRAQI. so basically all the iraqi's managed to do was killing somebody that was offering help.

Maybe that gives out a HINT, They dont want the Americans in their country and they sure as hell don't want ANY so called "help"

[Toms-Celica]

Originally posted by Maxt
Really when you think about, doing that wasnt to bright, at a time when even stuff like the humilation pics from the Iraqi prison, made the US look bad, they bring out their own retaliation pic , that made the butch marine chick with the dog leash look like a fucking saint....The US was tarnished by the prison scandal, but now the world sees Al Qayda for what they are, cold blooded murderers...
Yes the US killed Iraqis, however some of you need to learn the difference between combatants and non combatants when throwing up the numbers of dead for pure shock value....
And its come to light that much of the supposed footage of rape and torture was just bunk, and the photos were staged to further demonize the US... The problem with debating this stuff, is to many people put their emotions into it, and stray from the facts..
And Toma, giving credibility to the UN? man , to much time over a open fuel bowl for you.....Maxt


Well spoken. I never thought of this situation that way.

[blueripper6]

http://xtremepaintballcanada.com/calgary/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=55&t=8966&s=

I posted it up on my forum too.. I think that it is something people should read about(and someone they shouldnt EVER have to see)

I believe bush makes the media force a "random" if you will persona on it.. Makes it seem like Bush did nothing wrong for them to do it.. Which is utterbullshit in my mind.