Alberta going to the flat rate insurance??

[93PGT]

My mom keeps saying something like Alberta is going to an insurance company similar to Saskatchewan way of doing it...has anyone heard this?

She said like end of May/beginning of June is what she heard for the change to be installed into Alberta.

Can anyone confirm this!?! I might hold out a couple more weeks before insuring my Probe GT to save some money.

[turbo_equiped]

man..that would be sweet..
one rate for all...

[93PGT]

Yeah, I guess they are always talking about it on QR77 (770 on AM radio) with Dave Rutherford...maybe some of you guys can listen to it in the mornings and post anything they talk about this insurance thing. I can't listen because I'm in school during the Dave Rutherford talk show.

[cujo_cjc]

it'll only be a flat rate on the plpd side of the insurance since collision IS optional.. :nut:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Where are you guys getting these facts from? Does anyone have a link with info?

[Kobe]

Umm let me fetch the link

Age will no matter be a factor, Sex wont be a factor.. Rates will start at $1800..and decrease %5 - %10 for every benifit.. or increase %5 then %10 for an accident or ticket...

It should be Set in June / July, then Sept / Oct, the insurance companys will have to change the rates for drivers.. :)

[93PGT]

Originally posted by cujo_cjc
it'll only be a flat rate on the plpd side of the insurance since collision IS optional.. :nut:

Yeah, I know....like my mom heard that it was going to be in the range of $1800 for new drivers. When I got my quote for my Probe GT before I bought it, it came as $3800 for just PLPD.

:thumbsdow

So hopefully they bring this in soon, I wanna drive my PGT instead of my Jeep YJ.

[Kobe]

heres an old thread with it

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40183


and here is the website


http://www.autoinsurance.gov.ab.ca/

[93PGT]

I've been on that site before, but couldn't find anything about the dates and prices. Could you point me to a direct page?? :thumbsup:

[Kobe]

oo dates i heard on the news a while back i think..same as prices...

[93PGT]

Ok, if I were to insurance my PGT right now which is at $270/month....and then this is put in around October, would I see a change in my insurance price, or would it stay the same because I got my car insured before the drop?

[Kobe]

It would change....dude $270 a month is not bad at all..how old are you?
I'd die for $270..thats why im getting a bike hahaha

[93PGT]

I'm 18...but that's $270 a month for just PLPD. :(

[ryder_23]

I read in the paper the other day...that very soon, insurance for everyone without any claims, tickets etc...will go down 5%, as long as you have a clean record...i read this in the middle of last week. But their hasnt been anything fully said, about changing to other forms of insurance like sask, theyre just making it mandatory for insurance companies to lower their price 5% on good drivers...so kobe, ur still fuckd :tongue:

[93PGT]

Haha, Kobe how many tickets or accidents do you have?? I have a clean driving record, and I took drivers ed 2 years ago.

[Lennon]

Damn, I can't wait for this to come into effect. I'm paying $260 a month, thats disgusting, and on a car thats 18 years old, and no collision.... godamn.

[Kobe]

haha i have no accidents no tickets nothing....its my parents that were bad drivers..well my mom...hahaha, i took drivers ed also.. im 17th in less then 2 months...

%5 wont help me at all hahaha


EDIT: *Im not insuring a car till i can play less then $4500 a year for insurance :)

[ryder_23]

^
well when this comes into play, get ur own insurance account etc...that is apart from your parents, thats what i have, and i dont pay up the ass for insurance...

[Kobe]

im secondary driver for now...

If im first driver on a car..its crazy....but its under there insurance still...hahah its such a joke...Like are you second driver or first driver on your car....

[93PGT]

Right now I am paying $800/year for my Jeep YJ for PLPD. Casual driver under my parents name. Easy way to rip off those insurance companies. I drive that thing every day!! :thumbsup:

But when I get my car I'm putting it on my own insurance so it doesn't effect my parents if I get a ticket. So it will around $3100/year for just PLPD. Works out to a monthly payment of $270/month.

[Merkur]

Easy way to rip them off till you get into an accident and then they look into how much you actually drive the thing, then your screwed, happened to people in my town, there kid killed someone and they lost everything.

[benyl]

Originally posted by 93PGT
Right now I am paying $800/year for my Jeep YJ for PLPD. Casual driver under my parents name. Easy way to rip off those insurance companies. I drive that thing every day!! :thumbsup:

But when I get my car I'm putting it on my own insurance so it doesn't effect my parents if I get a ticket. So it will around $3100/year for just PLPD. Works out to a monthly payment of $270/month.

Haha, this is the dumbest thing to actually admit to.

You do realize that you insurance company will ask your neighbors how much you drive that car. They will ask anyone to deny you coverage. They will ask you friends, your teachers from school, anyone you have contact with. Just pray you never ever get in an accident cause someone will fess up that you drive it everyday.

[BumpinTalon]

Maybe I shouldn't brag I have full insurance on my Talon for $151 a month... :) and I am still in school
Family history w/o accidents and good students discount go a LONG LONG way

[93PGT]

Haha, oh well I'm only driving that thing for another week or so anyways. Then I'll be driving my Probe GT where I'll be insured as the only driver on that vehicle.

And I live in the country, hell my neighbors don't even know what vehicles my whole family owns. And I graduate in a month, so I doubt they'll be asking my teachers, lol.

But whatever...I'm a great driver.

[autobodygal]

Hopefully it goes that way for you guys. Here is SK. insurance is way cheaper. 2001 Solara is 1089.00 a year, includes basic insurance with 700.00 deductible,
1 million liability.

[blinkme_210]

Originally posted by 93PGT
Right now I am paying $800/year for my Jeep YJ for PLPD. Casual driver under my parents name. Easy way to rip off those insurance companies. I drive that thing every day!! :thumbsup:

But when I get my car I'm putting it on my own insurance so it doesn't effect my parents if I get a ticket. So it will around $3100/year for just PLPD. Works out to a monthly payment of $270/month.

Actually, tickets and minor stuff won't affect your parents or what not when you're on your own insurance. But say you do get into a huge crash or whatever and have to claim for it, your parents will still be affected either way. Because the insurance looks at who is also living under the same household as you, so they presume that you or they will drive the car as well.

[93PGT]

Hmm...lol, if I tell them that they will probably force me to move out once I graduate. :banghead: They think that because I'm gonna have a pretty nice car (bodykit, rims, paintjob soon, already had an engine swap done, and boltons coming soon) that I'm gonna get tickets out my ass when I haven't got one yet. I know that cops will be watching my ass like a hawk because I will be driving a nice teenager car, lol....but I know how to drive safe. I don't need to show off....I'll take it to the tracks to do that.

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by 93PGT
I don't need to show off....I'll take it to the tracks to do that.

Ya, sure. I believe that :rolleyes:

[93PGT]

Believe me...I don't street race. Even though I'm a teenager and will drive a nice car, what's the point. Have a ghost car see you pull you over and lose your license.

Sorry, not my cup of tea. :dunno:

[Merkur]

Everyone is a great driver correct??? who says someone doesnt smash into you, they will still look into your insurance and see whats going on won't they???

ben

[Roadrage]

Originally posted by autobodygal
Hopefully it goes that way for you guys. Here is SK. insurance is way cheaper. 2001 Solara is 1089.00 a year, includes basic insurance with 700.00 deductible,
1 million liability.

That's cheap? My brother in law pays under $1000.00 per year for full coverage and has a $500.00 deductible for a 2002 Solara. I thought Saskatchewan insurance was cheaper then that. :dunno:

[Zero102]

I would kill for $1800/year. I'm paying $3300 for just PLPD, then $500 for comprehensive.
Collision alone would be $5000/year, can't afford that shit.

I can't wait for this to come into effect.

[Xpnsve]

They are trying to implement a new plan, but the problem will still persist. Rates will be reduced by a measly 5% when last year alone they raised something like 52%

They are not implementing insurance the same as saskatchewan.

Alberta has PRIVATE insurance carriers while sask, B.C. and manitoba have PUBLIC or government controlled insurance.

I'm running a petition in Alberta to DE-PRIVATIZE insurance and adopt a plan similar to B.C or sask.

A recent report claims 80% of insurance policies are not going to change with this "new" plan.

VISIT www.apaip.com for details on the matter and please feel free to print out a couple pages of the petition for signing

[dishrag]

Globe an Mail had a blurb about it last week.
The new regs are expected to come into effect in the fall. There will be a $4000 cap on minor injuries, your rates will be based on driving record and the 5% discount applies to good drivers right off the bat. All insurers will have to report what they charge for optional coverage and the government will monitr those rates for now. I think its a good compromise, ANYTHING is better than what we got now. And it won't matter how many signatures you get on that petition, a conservative government is idealogically opposed to public anything, in other words, Klein would rather be voted out of office than publicize insurance. I say get these changes in asap and see if it works.

[ryder_23]

Originally posted by Kobe
im secondary driver for now...

If im first driver on a car..its crazy....but its under there insurance still...hahah its such a joke...Like are you second driver or first driver on your car....

Cars fully under my name, i'm the only one insured on it or atleast just my names on it...i pay 1900$ pl/pd turning 19 in august...under my own account, but i think i got some sort of a discount, cause my parents use that insurance for cars/home for 20+ years now....to clarify...if i get in an accident, its my fault, it wont affect their insurance plan, because its fully seperate..

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by ryder_23


Cars fully under my name, i'm the only one insured on it or atleast just my names on it...i pay 1900$ pl/pd turning 19 in august...under my own account, but i think i got some sort of a discount, cause my parents use that insurance for cars/home for 20+ years now....to clarify...if i get in an accident, its my fault, it wont affect their insurance plan, because its fully seperate.. lucky u man, i pay 2300/yr for plpd and im 21. i do have a couple speeding tickets tho

[Euro_Trash]

Why is everyones insurance rates so high?? Right now I pay 1680 per year, with collision on a 94 Golf, and Im 16. I also have a estimate (on paper) for my BMW, 1992 325i, for 2800 with collision.... like 3800 for a probe, holy shit

[93PGT]

But are you on your own insurance or is this under your parents? When I go to insure my Probe it's going under my name, not my parents.


Also, you are Dan right?

[Jynx]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Why is everyones insurance rates so high?? Right now I pay 1680 per year, with collision on a 94 Golf, and Im 16. I also have a estimate (on paper) for my BMW, 1992 325i, for 2800 with collision.... like 3800 for a probe, holy shit
whut company are u with
im 17 and i pay 8700 on a 2k3 cavalier
clrean record no tickets or accidents
but broother and mom have horrid records..
and for everyone that sez go on your own insurance.......... HOW!
everywhere i phoned said they wont insure me bcuz im to high risk. what are some companys which i could phone..?

[Euro_Trash]

Yea this is Dan. I am fully under my own insurance, nothing to do with my parents. Do you have any tickets or accidents?

[93PGT]

Nope, no accidents or tickets. Where do you get your insurance from?

[Euro_Trash]

Meloche Monnex. And when is the Probe going to show its face? I want to see that car, see how nice it is. All Ive heard are things from Spencer: he said you're looking at Motegi MR7's, said its a nice looking car overall. Will it be out by the end of this school year or early summer? Sometime in July me and you have to take a run at race city, im curious how fast it is. :thumbsup:

[93PGT]

http://www.cardomain.com/id/klzepgt

I'm gonna have it insured on my birthday probably, next Saturday. But yeah, we'll definitely need to take it to Race City. I wanna see a time for it...I want to do exhaust, cold air, and maybe headers first though. Oh and I want to get the right intake manifold on my J-Spec engine. The guy I bought it from put the stock Probe one back on instead of putting the J-Spec intake manifold with the J-Spec engine.

[Euro_Trash]

Yea within the first 2 weeks of my new car it'll be chipped, CAI, exhaust (takin out cat as well) and full system (eclipse deck, 4 Rockford speakers for the doors and 2 10 inch JL's) Somewhere in there should have rims too (either stock rims off of a newer BMW or some Mille Migillias) Then hopefully by the end of July or begining of August it'll get a stock M3 body kit and paint job (Dark Blue) What are you doing with the jeep? Selling it or keeping it for winter?

[93PGT]

Yeah, I doubt I'm selling the Jeep because its my parents so I'll probably use it as a winter vehicle. I'm gonna get a body kit on in the winter and painting it, but I have no idea what color. I also want to make my interior all black. Since Casey totalled his Probe I wonder if he might sell me his interior, or is he fixing it??

Anyways, I'll probably have some rims on in the summer. I'll just go to Mr. Detail and finance some. And yeah, I'm looking at 18" Motegi MR7's, the silver ones.

[Euro_Trash]

Oh good, Spencer said you were gonna go gun metal, but I think that would look too much like Scott Warrens new rims, and white would look too much like that other kid with the white probe w/ rims. And if you do get a body kit, then it would be good to have a winter vehicle, I know I wont have one :thumbsdow Ill ask Casey tommorow if he would sell the interior, I asked him a couple weeks back if he is gonna fix it and he wasnt sure. Are you looking for everything? (dash, center console, carpeting, headliner, seats) Do you have any idea what color you are going to paint the car?

[93PGT]

yeah probably the whole interior i would want. im not a fan of my blue/black seats. I think my mom might redo my seats or I might buy some race seats. Haven't decided yet. I really want to keep my Probe white and get white rims, but I don't think that Kaylen Velting is painting his car anytime soon and I don't want to have 2 identical Probes in town right now. Both of our cars being white is enough as it is. :dunno:

I'm kinda thinking either viper blue or a metallic red maybe....both depending on if i get a black interior. tell him i'll pay him MAYBE close to 1000 for his whole interior.

[Euro_Trash]

OK Ill talk to him tommorow, yea I think that a nice Blue would be sick for that car :thumbsup: Yea our town is too small for 2 of the exact same car, definitly for the same school. Personally I would go race seats, but that is something I would want to spend money on, some people would put that further back on their list. But Ill find out from Casey tommorow, hopefully he doesnt fix his car tho, cuz then we're back to 3 probes (including yours)

[93PGT]

lol, ya theres a couple others in town. a teacher at comp has a red one, and theres another white one who lives in the red/yellow condos behind bps/dodge. looks identical to veltings except has stock rims and a spoiler.

ahh well...


this is the kit im getting:

http://goof.dialf.net/hotprobe-1.jpg

http://goof.dialf.net/hotprobe-9.jpg

andy's auto sport front, shogun sides, fx designs rear

thats a nice ass probe :thumbsup:


whats ur email...i thought i had you on my msn list?? :dunno: i know ur email is something to do with snowboarding i think.

[Euro_Trash]

[email protected], add me. Im putting a touring wing like that on the Bimmer, I love the look of them with the M3 kit.

Yea that is a pretty sweet setup, I just dont like how the back bumper has a spot for a licence plate. If you shaved where the stock licence plate location is and put the plate in the bumper, that would be sweet. Nice front bumper too.

Oh how much would that whole kit cost you? Do you have it priced out?

[93PGT]

k i added you...uhh the kit should be around $1200. the front is 300, side skirts 300, and the rear is 500. plus shipping. the rear i can get from speedtech b/c they sell fx designs shit and fx designs is in edmonton.

the rest will prolly have to be ordered off the internet. :thumbsdow unless this probe guy on here can gimme the # for the guy he got his kit from. :dunno:

[brad256]

2 years ago i owned a 2000 f-150 reg cab short box. Apparently it was a ferrari according to them becasue i was paying $9800 a year. At the time i didnt care becusue i was making good money but honesty the truck was only worth 25000 if you payed insurance for 2 1/2 years youd have the truck payed off. Last year i took residence in fernie BC ( I have residence there already) and i only pay $1700 a year full everything (coverage). Never been happier, it might sound a little illegal but what do you expect a 19 yearold to do when most companies wont even talk to you or else they'll plain just fuck you in the ass. With my work i do work in BC once in a while and i stay in fernie probably one weekend a month on a average so i can kind of justify it that way.

Glad to be out of alberta.

[Euro_Trash]

Wow 9800 a year. I was reading this thing in the Calgary Herald and it said for a 16 year old with a record with accidents and tickets, a Porsche GT2 would cost about that.

[2000impreza]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Wow 9800 a year. I was reading this thing in the Calgary Herald and it said for a 16 year old with a record with accidents and tickets, a Porsche GT2 would cost about that.

i kind of doubt it would be that cheap for a 16 year old to insure a GT2. when i was 16 i got quoted 8000 on a prelude and 10 000 for a talon TSI. that was years ago, i'm sure its even more now.

[SI-vic]

on the insurance topic, Klien needs to be pied in the face again to realize how bad the average joe's are being raped up the ass

I wish I still had residency in Saskatchewan.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Jynx

im 17 and i pay 8700 on a 2k3 cavalier


Why the hell would you bother? You could buy a brand new Cavalier every other year for what insurance costs you.
How can someone justify paying an insurance rate that is more than the car is worth.

A beater with PLPD would make WAY more sense.

:nut:

[nickyh]

Here's a question: my insurance was not frozen, my rate just dropped 5%, so does that mean when they do the overhaul my rate drops again?
That would be pretty sweet.

[Toma]

$1800 per month flat rate? .......... fuck that Idea. I pay $720 a year, why the hell would I want my rates to go up, so yours can go down?

[dishrag]

$1800 per YEAR

[Euro_Trash]

lol 1800 per month, damn I could not afford that. And I am amazed at hearing these quotes: 10,000 for a talon, 8700 on a cavalier... I agree with Sputnik. If my insurance was that much, I would ride a bike or drive a POS.

[GC84ever]

Originally posted by SI-vic
on the insurance topic, Klien needs to be pied in the face again to realize how bad the average joe's are being raped up the ass


I agree. That alcoholic bum is in everybody's pockets. Private this, private that; Klien is helping his private friends get richer, so they can help him stay in office. And the way he justifies all the privatization is that it lowers the debt of Alberta. But at what cost? Crappy health care system, insane insurance, crappy conditions for teachers, nurses, etc.
I hope Albertan wake up one day and vote his ass out of office.

1800/yr base. that's crazy! I pay about 1400/yr full coverage(perfect record). the 10%dedution won't do crap for me. I know it isn't as bad as Toma (720/yr), but I would be penalized even with a good record.

I think they would have to change some traffic laws also. other wise innocent people can be wrongfully charge/penalized when it was someone else's fault.

In Quebec they have public insurance when you register your car i believe. so you don't need third party insurance. The public insurance covers everybody, but they have some financial in case of accidents and payouts and in quebec you're taxed a higher than Alberta to pay for it.

[dishrag]

thats 1800 a year to start as a new driver, thats pretty damn good, a person like your self with a perfect record would get a deduction of up to 60% according to the govt website, which is 1080 a year for plpd, that is also pretty good, so calm yourself. Sweet fuck this legislation is so misinterpreted, I think Alberta has a severe literacy problem, its all there in black and white on the website. Thats only a ballpark figure at this point as well, Klein siad the rates will be within 5-10% of the other western provices. Like I said, bring on the changes because anything is better than what we have now.

[93PGT]

Well I insured my Probe today. It's costing me $273/month. :thumbsdow Ahh well....my broker said that it will decrease once Klein figures this shit out and lowers the premiums.

[SI-vic]

Originally posted by 93PGT
Well I insured my Probe today. It's costing me $273/month. :thumbsdow Ahh well....my broker said that it will decrease once Klein figures this shit out and lowers the premiums.

When Klein figures this shit out and lowers premiums?????

The question is.... WILL Klein figure this shit out and lower premiums

[93PGT]

Yeah, no shit eh!! Ahh well....I guess I'll make up for the money in gas from driving my Jeep to driving my car and paying more in insurance. :(

[SI-vic]

Originally posted by 93PGT
Yeah, no shit eh!! Ahh well....I guess I'll make up for the money in gas from driving my Jeep to driving my car and paying more in insurance. :(

Have you seen the gas prices lately????????

Driving just doesnt make sense to me right now.... the public transit seems a bit better.
It's just a shame I live in an area where the bus comes every 2 hours... and it ends at 7pm and starts at 8am.... so I'm forced to drive.
Just glad I bought a car that is great on gas.

[93PGT]

LOL! Anything is better than a 4 cylinder Jeep YJ with a 77L tank that lasts me 5 days. :banghead:

[Euro_Trash]

Hey so will that be at school now??

[bighead2267]

there is not much they can do unless they change the compensation plan and the driving attitude in calgary. althought it tend to change become a big city, but ppl's mind in calgary still like 20 yrs ago, mean like they drive like they own the road. the premium not gonna reduce (even they change to become government, it will broke anyways). it's not gonna last long.

[dishrag]

here y'all go, hot off alberta.com this morning:

Alberta set to open door for public auto insurance agencies

EDMONTON (CP) - Public auto insurance agencies from neighbouring provinces will be invited to compete with private insurance companies in Alberta if Premier Ralph Klein's government endorses a recommendation from one of its own committees.
The controversial plan was announced Thursday following an all-day meeting of a legislature committee studying auto insurance reforms. "There are pros and cons," said Tory backbencher Rob Renner, who chaired a committee that drafted the reforms. "I don't know if they want to come to Alberta and compete in a competitive market."

Alberta Finance spokesman Jerry Bellikka said the committee decided Thursday that if outside public insurance agencies are willing to compete under the same rules, they should have that opportunity.

The Tory committee, which met as accident victims protested outside the legislature, also recommended the creation of another committee to monitor the impact of the planned reforms.


But those two recommendations are the only changes to a package of reforms that the Tory caucus has been debating behind closed doors for months.

The package, which includes a controversial $4,000 cap on claims for minor injuries and a five per cent general rate reduction for most drivers, is expected to go to cabinet for final approval June 7.

Finance Minister Pat Nelson called the reforms "sweeping" and a "made-in- Alberta solution" after the meeting, but some members of her own caucus were still unhappy with the cap and the definition of a minor injury.

Klein was in Calgary Thursday and did not attend the meeting. Some cabinet ministers, including Gaming Minister Ron Stevens and Children's Services Minister Iris Evans, also didn't attend. They were taking part in a golf tournament in Okotoks.

With an election looming next year, Edmonton Tories were also unhappy that Edmonton drivers will initially pay higher auto insurance rates than their Calgary counterparts, although the rates are to be eventually merged.

Alberta's thriving injury accident lawyer industry has attacked the injury cap from the outset and the insurance industry hasn't been happy about a proposal to regulate the rates for new drivers.

Nelson said the new package will increase accident benefits for medical and rehabilitation costs from $10,000 to $50,000 and still allow victims with more serious injuries to pursue claims through the courts.

"We wanted to make sure people are properly compensated," she said.


She said the reforms will save Alberta drivers $200 million annually.

"I want consumers to see real benefits in their pockets," she said.

The reforms are expected to drop insurance rates for new drivers from $4,000 to about $1,800 per year, but most drivers with good records will only save about $60 on their premiums.

There will be a base insurance premium for all drivers, regardless of age, sex and marital status. The premium would move down for drivers who remain accident free, and would go up for those with accidents, traffic offences of tickets.

However, the grid applies only to third party liability insurance, which is mandatory in Alberta, and not collision or comprehensive insurance.

The package will also establish a dispute resolution mechanism for people who disagree with their insurance company's calculation of their premium.

Bellikka said that even if cabinet approves the package June 7, the reforms won't likely be implemented before the fall because the government has to give insurance companies 90 days notice.

Alberta has been striving to find a way to reduce auto insurance rates since the issue nearly toppled Bernard Lord's Tory government in New Brunswick last June. But there have been no public hearings and the government has refused to consider a public auto insurance plan, saying it was against its ideology.

Liberal insurance critic Hugh MacDonald said the government shut ordinary Albertans out of the reform process and consulted instead with the industry.

Accident victims who gathered at the legislature while the committee finalized the reforms Thursday expressed frustration with the cap.

Tanya Matwychuk, 31, struggled with tears as she described how her life has been filled with pain since a 1995 car crash.

"It's affected my life. It's sad that there are so many people like me that suffer."

New Democrat Brian Mason warned that under the new plan Albertans could see their rates skyrocket after one fender-bender or speeding ticket.

[googe]

Originally posted by dishrag

Bellikka said that even if cabinet approves the package June 7, the reforms won't likely be implemented before the fall because the government has to give insurance companies 90 days notice.


:banghead: :banghead:

[93PGT]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Hey so will that be at school now??

Yup, it was there today, lol...parked it beside the other white Probe. haha

[kiwi]

So what's happening w/ car insurance now? It'll be 5% cheaper, but insurance companies will only insure you up to $4000 or something? That's :bullshit:

5% cheaper is barely anything... so they're still gonna over charge us but only pay up to $4000 for accidents & stuff like that?

[Kobe]

Ummm june 7th.. i call :bullshit: on that...

Probobly in like 2010 it will be changed hahahaha...

[dishrag]

^Take Hooked on Phonics then re-read the article you fucking retreads. :drool:

[blueripper6]

someone said that they would rather drive a beater with pldpd or something? Why? what is plpd, dont u need it on all cars?