Porsche 944

[Dogg]

There appear to be many on this forum who own these cars. I read Rage's post with interest, where he got some good dyno numbers from a 944.

I am very interested in finding out more about these cars. Are they finnicky to maintain? Are there any mechanical peculiarities about them that I should know about if I were to seriously consider owning one some day?
Are they reliable? What are their weaknesses?


Being a Bug owner, I have a fondness for the rear engine Porsches. However I cannot afford a 911, and the 912 is scarce and probably slower than my Beetle. The front engined/liquid cooled Porsche is a dark horse worth looking at. I do not want the POS 924 and the 928s is too complicated an engine.
The 944 does not have any serious detractors, from what I have heard.

[Zero102]

As long as you keep up on the timing belts, and scheduled maintenance, they can be very reliable cars.
Mine has been my daily driver for a year now, no real complaints, just some minor wear items.
Things to watch out for... if it's a late model (85.5 and newer), the A-arms on the front suspension cost an arm and a leg, and the ball joint is built into them. The trick is, there are rebuild kits available, don't ever shell out for a new a-arm if you don't have to, they are steep ($600-$700).
911's are expensive to keep (from what I hear), so I agree, stay away from them =)
the 928's aren't that complicated, it's just 2 944 engines, but there is much less room to work under the hood, and then you have 2 timing belts to worry about. But they are a great touring car, but they are not wonderful on the track.

[rage2]

They call the 944 the poor man's porsche for a reason... owning one makes you a poor man!

I've spent my yearly income on my 944 for the last few years... it's a big money pit, especially if you decide to make good power with it. A stock 944 maintained right (like Zero102 mentioned) can be fairly rewarding, but if you get the power itch... make sure you have a lot of $ to fund the repairs.

[Loose]

Originally posted by rage2

I've spent my yearly income on my 944 for the last few years...

:eek:

[SleeperD]

ya i have heard that they do take alot of money to take care of.....but its a porsche....i am going to get one one day..:thumbsup:

[nismodrifter]

Originally posted by SleeperD
but its a porsche....i am going to get one one day..:thumbsup:

one problem there....its like half VW ;)

[JustinL]

Originally posted by rage2
They call the 944 the poor man's porsche for a reason... owning one makes you a poor man!

I've spent my yearly income on my 944 for the last few years... it's a big money pit, especially if you decide to make good power with it. A stock 944 maintained right (like Zero102 mentioned) can be fairly rewarding, but if you get the power itch... make sure you have a lot of $ to fund the repairs.

But Rage, your car is just a 944 shell full of performance parts! What's left on your car that came from the factory? ;)

I've had my n/a 87 944 for 5 years and it's been very good to me. Repairs are managable if you are willing to do some work on your own. The most expensive item I had to replace was the clutch and my car has 250 000 miles on everything else (except the head). Still runs like a champ, but doesn't get driven much now that I have the Turbo S. The turbo S had a failed wastegate, and that's the only repair that I've had to make to non-wear items.

Overall for their age: great looks, great handling, a little low on power. I would also suggest an 85.5 or later cars as they have the upgraded chassis and interior. 87 and later allows you to use the newer offsets as well.

Justin

[T5_X]

I would'nt pass up the 924 too quick. The 924 turbo is a great platform on a budget.

[Zero102]

924 turbo's are money pits as well =)
Unfortunately if you want to make big power with a turbo porsche, it will really cost you, as rage2 mentioned. I have seen a couple 944 turbo's with 400+ rwhp, and they have all cost an arm and a leg. Although, I'll bet it's worth it =)

If you stick to the normally aspirated 944's, they are really quite cheap to maintain, especially if you do all your own work. But, as a general rule, for parts, double to triple what you would spend on another car, and that'll be pretty close to what you will spend.

If you're looking for 944's, I would also get a late (85.5+) car, and if possible, 87 or newer, then you have both airbags, and ABS. With the drivers in our city, who knows when those will come in handy.

If you're looking for 924's, you're into a whole different breed of problems. the CIS system on the 924's is great when it runs, but tend to fail often (sorry, don't know from experience). But on the up side, their engines are non-interference, so you don't have to be afraid of the timing belt. However, it is an Audi engine =P

If you're at all interested in this, here's what mine has cost me so far. (it's an N/A 86, and the body is in pretty poor shape)
April 2003 - $4500 - purchase
April 2003 - $2000 - new shocks all around, and new passenger a-arm (wish I knew about the rebuild kits then), now it has passed inspection
August 2003 - $180 - to rebuild my power steering rack, also bought rebuild kit for pump, as I knew it was on it's way out as well.
February 2004 - $650 - for many many new gaskets, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, etc, as well as all new vacuum hoses under the hood, timing belts, and miscellaneous parts (keys, exhaust hangers, etc.)
May 2004 - $700 - new rotors, pads, brake lines, and wear sensors (all 4 wheels)

Plus oil and filter changes, and all the other regular maintenance (but that's not really fair to include)

Now, if you bought a properly maintained car, you probably wouldn't have to worry about better than half of the stuff on my list for at least a few years.

Wish parts were as cheap for this thing, as for my 85 subaru wagon. Spent $700 in parts since I bought it, drove it for almost 2 years. Changed rotors, calipers, rear brake cylinders, pads, shoes, pulled the engine and changed all the leaky gaskets (rear main seal, valve covers, cam covers, oil pan, front seals), as well as replaced the alternator, and bought new tires for it.

Oh well, the 944's are much more fun to drive than an 85 subaru GL wagon.

[rage2]

Originally posted by nismodrifter
one problem there....its like half VW ;)
haha, I get bugged on that a lot. It's nice to see VW and Audi logos on tons of parts on the car.

Originally posted by JustinL
But Rage, your car is just a 944 shell full of performance parts! What's left on your car that came from the factory? ;)
Actually, my car is still mostly porsche (and VW heh) parts. Turbo (1/2 of it), injectors, ECU, pistons and sleeves are really the only changes that aren't from Porsche.

Originally posted by Zero102
Unfortunately if you want to make big power with a turbo porsche, it will really cost you, as rage2 mentioned. I have seen a couple 944 turbo's with 400+ rwhp, and they have all cost an arm and a leg. Although, I'll bet it's worth it =)
ya, it's worth it :).

[Khyron]

Can you buy an NA 944 and (reasonably) put a turbo or SC kit on it later on, or should you just shell out the bigger bucks for a 944 turbo right off the bat?

Khyron

[rage2]

944 turbo off the bat would be the smart choice, considering you can get a turbo for $1000-$2000 more than a 944 NA.

SC kits for the NA cars aren't that great. Not much power, not much reliability.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by rage2
944 turbo off the bat would be the smart choice, considering you can get a turbo for $1000-$2000 more than a 944 NA.

SC kits for the NA cars aren't that great. Not much power, not much reliability.

Hrm I've seen NAs for 8-10K, while the turbos seem to all be 15K+. Of course the turbos are more likely not to be winter driven, lower mileage, better condition etc.

Khyron

[JustinL]

I think you are right khyron. You can buy a beat down 951 for 6000$ USD or you can get an N/A in very nice condition for about the same price. But good condition 951s can command good money.

Supercharging is an option. check www.speedforceracing.com

But for the upgrades you get when you move to a turbo, it seems like a steal of a deal. Almost everything is better on the turbo. Both the n/a and the turbo are killer deals... but you have to decide how much you want to spend.

Justin

[Khyron]

Originally posted by JustinL
I think you are right khyron. You can buy a beat down 951 for 6000$ USD or you can get an N/A in very nice condition for about the same price. But good condition 951s can command good money.

Supercharging is an option. check www.speedforceracing.com

But for the upgrades you get when you move to a turbo, it seems like a steal of a deal. Almost everything is better on the turbo. Both the n/a and the turbo are killer deals... but you have to decide how much you want to spend.

Justin

I'm just looking for a fun car that I can take to the track once or twice a year. Doesn't have to be the fastest car around as I have a bike for stupid fast speed. And as I will drive it summer and winter I don't need a mint condition car either. My other option is an 85/86 supra, but those are pretty hard to find in decent shape.

Khyron

[rage2]

Originally posted by Khyron
I'm just looking for a fun car that I can take to the track once or twice a year. Doesn't have to be the fastest car around as I have a bike for stupid fast speed. And as I will drive it summer and winter I don't need a mint condition car either. My other option is an 85/86 supra, but those are pretty hard to find in decent shape.
Buy a Honda :). Seriously, for the price of a used 944 turbo, you can have a seriously fast civic daily driver that would own the track as well.

If you have a specific budget or can barely afford a 944 turbo, don't buy one. It'll seriously bankrupt you. Check out Rennlist (porsche forums), tons of guys sell their cars after it breaks down and takes a major loss. People totally underestimate how expensive things can get when small things break. It's unpredictable, it's a 15+ year old car, even well maintained cars could all of a sudden put you in the poor house. For the cost of a 944 turbo, I'd set aside the same amount of money for repairs down the road. $10k car, have $20k in the bank, set aside $10k for repairs then buy the car. Things add up friggin' quick on these cars.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by rage2

Buy a Honda :). Seriously, for the price of a used 944 turbo, you can have a seriously fast civic daily driver that would own the track as well.

If you have a specific budget or can barely afford a 944 turbo, don't buy one. It'll seriously bankrupt you. Check out Rennlist (porsche forums), tons of guys sell their cars after it breaks down and takes a major loss. People totally underestimate how expensive things can get when small things break. It's unpredictable, it's a 15+ year old car, even well maintained cars could all of a sudden put you in the poor house. For the cost of a 944 turbo, I'd set aside the same amount of money for repairs down the road. $10k car, have $20k in the bank, set aside $10k for repairs then buy the car. Things add up friggin' quick on these cars.
Thats good advice the Na's are expensive in maitenance and the turbos are even worse however it's an old car, what do you expect. It really isnt much more to maintain than a turbo talon, supra, 300zx, mr2 etc. I would take a 944 turbo over a civic any day there are little things about driving a 944 that a civic could never give you. Quiet cruising at high speed, awesome seats, brakes, ergonomics and even good gas mileage in the NA's are all great features of the car. I just got back from Montreal tonight and after driving my ae86 at 120km/hr at 4200rpm for 6 hours im ready to put a for sale sign on that damn car. I could happilly drive the 944 across the country however

[Zero102]

Redlyne, you're back in Calgary?


Back to the Porsche's.
If you're looking for a daily driver, pick up an N/A 944 (if you're set on a 944 that is), the maintenance is a bit lower, and there are many parts that cost more on the turbo (mostly suspension related things) that will wear, and have to be replaced.

If you find a well maintained N/A, it will probably be the same price as a beat up turbo, but it will cost you far less in the long run.
Not to mention, it will get better mileage.

But again, keep in mind these cars are getting quite old. They will require some work to keep them running.

My only complaint about the N/A, is not enough power, sure, it's WAY faster than my 85 subaru GL wagon, but it can't touch many of the other sports cars out there.
Although, it does lend itself well to the track, as both the N/A and the turbo have phenominal handling at high speeds.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Zero102
Redlyne, you're back in Calgary?


No man still in Ontario for a couple more months. Looking forward to working on our cars when I get back

[Dogg]

Good info.
I have always wanted the panache of driving a Porsche, however I will probably own Beetles forever.

What is it they say about the devil you know?

Hmmm - Intermecchanica...? Hmmm... a replica 356 with a good strong 1600...
Hmmm....
They are just downtown on 2nd Ave here in Vancouver, not far from where I live.