Law

[Skyline_Addict]

Anyone planning to go into Law?
What're you studying right now?
What kind of law?
why? when? where?
just wondering cause i'm planning to go into law next next january

[Pacman]

have you written the LSAT yet?

[Skyline_Addict]

nope, i play to do that this fall

[Shaolin]

my buddy thought about doing law.. until he found out you don't make the big bucks if you don't take the big cases..

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Shaolin
my buddy thought about doing law.. until he found out you don't make the big bucks if you don't take the big cases..

There's nothing to find out about that....thats just common sense

[Shaolin]

guess he didn't have any :D

[Ben]

I was slated for Corporate Law at UofC till it dawned on me that I couldn't justify spending 8 years of my life to work for something that didn't guarantee me a job. I found it better to work for a bit and refine my interests and get some experience under my belt first. I have to laugh at all the kids coming out of University with no work place experience at all, working shitty 10-15 dollar (or even less) an hour jobs in a field they know nothing about because they went to school to make money, not to learn and gain experience. Sure there are lots of people who make huge cash, but make sure you're going to school for the right reasons, not because you think the money is good.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Ben
I have to laugh at all the kids coming out of University with no work place experience at all, working shitty 10-15 dollar (or even less) an hour jobs in a field they know nothing about because they went to school to make money, not to learn and gain experience. Sure there are lots of people who make huge cash, but make sure you're going to school for the right reasons, not because you think the money is good.

Laugh at them in 3-5 years :thumbsup:

[Ben]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Laugh at them in 3-5 years :thumbsup: I laugh at people who cant read the whole post. :thumbsup:

[maximus]

8 years?? The Law program at UofC is only 3 years. You can't take your sweet ass time like other degrees. Also what degree do you have Ben?? You need at least an undergrad degree to even be considered into the faculty of Law at the UofC.

You can do it in 6 years which is part time in which you work and gain the experience AND get the schooling to back it up. But again you need to be accepted first.

There are a lot of entry level jobs for law students at the career services. I'm sure they won't be $8/hr jobs thats for sure.

Skyline, are you already accepted?? Because I heard that they only accept very few # of people. Obviously you already have a degree but you also need 3 academic references. So maybe start straightening those out. Prior work in the industry and volunteer work are definately an asset. And of course a good score on the LSAT won't hurt! Good Luck!! :thumbsup:

[Ben]

Originally posted by maximus
8 years?? The Law program at UofC is only 3 years. You can't take your sweet ass time like other degrees. Also what degree do you have Ben?? You need at least an undergrad degree to even be considered into the faculty of Law at the UofC.

You can do it in 6 years which is part time in which you work and gain the experience AND get the schooling to back it up. But again you need to be accepted first.

There are a lot of entry level jobs for law students at the career services. I'm sure they won't be $8/hr jobs thats for sure.

Skyline, are you already accepted?? Because I heard that they only accept very few # of people. Obviously you already have a degree but you also need 3 academic references. So maybe start straightening those out. Prior work in the industry and volunteer work are definately an asset. And of course a good score on the LSAT won't hurt! Good Luck!! :thumbsup:

I would have had to do 4yr in B.Comm and then 3 in Law, plus anpother year of on the job stuff, 8 years.

[maximus]

Oh, so you weren't accepted into Law. I though you meant you were accepted so thought 8 yrs was kinda crazy.

[rice_eater]

Originally posted by maximus
Oh, so you weren't accepted into Law. I though you meant you were accepted so thought 8 yrs was kinda crazy.
no he's right...the U wants you to complete another degree before they let you try to get into law, so there goes 4 years, since hopefully you'll do something related to the field of law you wanna go in. better get ready for ridiculous amounts of reading.

[lint]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
Anyone planning to go into Law?
What're you studying right now?
What kind of law?
why? when? where?
just wondering cause i'm planning to go into law next next january

How much research have you done? I can't think of any law programs that starts in the winter semester. If you're not writing the LSAT until this fall, you wouldn't be getting into law until Fall of 05.

[tulit]

I was slated for Corporate Law at UofC I would have had to do 4yr in B.Comm and then 3 in Law, plus anpother year of on the job stuff, 8 years.

How did you get accepted into law when you hadn't even started your undergrad?


I know UofC is willing to take people without their undergrad, but they require a minimum of 2 years of your undergrad being completed before you can even apply. And even then, they only let 1 or 2 people per year do this (theres stats somewhere on their website).

I just got my engineering degree. Im seriously considering this for next, next september. Im going to take my LSATS/etc and see if I can even get in first and go from there... UVIC, UBC and UofT are also all good choices (I know for sure I dont want to stay in Calgary again). No program in Canada (that I know of) allows you to start in January. The earliest you can consider starting is now next next September (like 15 months from now) because applications for September registration are usually due around Feb of the year you want to start.

Its not an easy thing to get into. Acceptance rate is only around 10%. So work your ass off ;)

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Laugh at them in 3-5 years :thumbsup: My buddy graduated with Econ/Mktg degree from U of L with a 3.3GPA but no companies looking to hire him!

At the end of 3-5 years, they better be making $100K or else it's going to take them awhile to catch up to me!!!:rofl:

BTW, I agree very much with what Ben has to say.

[Shaolin]

I know so many grads that can't get a job with a MKT degree, some of them decided to leave and move back to China and HK.. haven't heard if they found jobs there yet though. :dunno:

[rice_eater]

Originally posted by max_boost
My buddy graduated with Econ/Mktg degree from U of L with a 3.3GPA but no companies looking to hire him!

At the end of 3-5 years, they better be making $100K or else it's going to take them awhile to catch up to me!!!:rofl:

BTW, I agree very much with what Ben has to say.

what about the rest of the people going to post secondary and then going out and getting the high pay jobs that they wanted. it's all in the choices you make, and it's been proven over and over that university IS the way to go. I think we get the wrong idea in a province like alberta, where your plummer charges you $40/hour and most blue collar jobs pay good. Lets see who pays for this when the economy takes a down turn.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by max_boost
My buddy graduated with Econ/Mktg degree from U of L with a 3.3GPA but no companies looking to hire him!

At the end of 3-5 years, they better be making $100K or else it's going to take them awhile to catch up to me!!!:rofl:

BTW, I agree very much with what Ben has to say.

Who are we really kidding. Time and again, the LEAST amount of unemployed people are university degree holders. The highest paid people in Canada are university degree holders. Income earning potential of university degree holders will catch up to, and surpass all other levels of education.

If we want to sit back here and pick at people, i'll be the first one to say that there will be many degree holders who do not have jobs. I am 99.9% sure that if I looked hard enough, I could find tons of lawyers, doctors, and PhD holders without employment. But myself, during the month of May, found myself looking for a job. I picked up a great job within the Goverment of Canada, I get paid extremely well (more than the "crappy $10-15/hr that was mentioned above), and they know that i'm leaving in September to finish the rest of my second degree.

Success story? Not in the least. It's the norm for most of my friends.

[Ben]

Christ you guys, I used the wrong term I guess...when I ment "slated for Law" it means that was my goal in my education, I was "Slating it for my plans" God damn I hate arguing on this forum, everyone takes things the wrong way.

Totally missing the idea and not looking at it as a whole. Forget this, far to abrasive for my liking, all people do is nitpick. Keep in mind MY IDEA OF GOING TO SCHOOL IS DIFFERENT THAN YOUR AND I HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS!

[tulit]

ahh okay sorry ben. Just sounded like you were in but just choose not to go. Now that I reread everything, I noticed you said that before I replied.

[Ben]

Originally posted by tulit
ahh okay sorry ben. Just sounded like you were in but just choose not to go. Now that I reread everything, I noticed you said that before I replied.

*shakes fist*

DAMN INTERNET!!!
HAHAHAHA

S'all good buddy.

[Skyline_Addict]

i understand that you can get into law without an undergrad degree, 20 full course equivalents must be taken and you can enter law potentially after just 2 years.
so you could end up spending 5 years in school.
that's what I was planning to do.



Originally posted by lint


How much research have you done? I can't think of any law programs that starts in the winter semester. If you're not writing the LSAT until this fall, you wouldn't be getting into law until Fall of 05.

i talked to the faculty very recently and they told me that you apply before january of the following year and if accepted, start in january of that following year.

[lint]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
i understand that you can get into law without an undergrad degree, 20 full course equivalents must be taken and you can enter law potentially after just 2 years.
so you could end up spending 5 years in school.
that's what I was planning to do.

i talked to the faculty very recently and they told me that you apply before january of the following year and if accepted, start in january of that following year.

Things to keep in mind about professional programs is not to go by what the minimum requirements are. For example, the minimun GPA to get into med is listed as 3.00 at most schools. In reality, unless you won an Olympic medal for Canada, or were an Astronaut, chances are that you will never get in with a 3.00. Realistically you need 3.50 and it would be safer at 3.7.

Admission standards may be tougher for those without undergrad degrees. Two candidates with similar GPA's and LSAT scores, but one has a degree and the other one doesn't, the spot will most likely go to the degree holder. So you have to work that much harder if you plan on that route.

You might want to double check with admissions as well.
FAQ (http://www.law.ucalgary.ca/LLB_Program/faq.html)

18. When do First Year classes begin?

First year students are admitted to begin classes in September only. The Faculty does not have a January admission.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by lint


Things to keep in mind about professional programs is not to go by what the minimum requirements are. For example, the minimun GPA to get into med is listed as 3.00 at most schools. In reality, unless you won an Olympic medal for Canada, or were an Astronaut, chances are that you will never get in with a 3.00. Realistically you need 3.50 and it would be safer at 3.7.

Admission standards may be tougher for those without undergrad degrees. Two candidates with similar GPA's and LSAT scores, but one has a degree and the other one doesn't, the spot will most likely go to the degree holder. So you have to work that much harder if you plan on that route.

You might want to double check with admissions as well.
FAQ (http://www.law.ucalgary.ca/LLB_Program/faq.html)

18. When do First Year classes begin?

First year students are admitted to begin classes in September only. The Faculty does not have a January admission.


i see i see. thanks man.
I believe then, that you apply before january of the year you want to start (which appears to be fall).
i think i misread it; i remember them stating that the courses you take in january of the year you wish to begin (winter semester) will be counted in your assessment.
but i will double check anyways.
thanks lint.

[lint]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict


i see i see. thanks man.
I believe then, that you apply before january of the year you want to start (which appears to be fall).
i think i misread it; i remember them stating that the courses you take in january of the year you wish to begin (winter semester) will be counted in your assessment.
but i will double check anyways.
thanks lint.

Yeah, what they mean is that the deadline is in Feb, but get your application in ASAP. Write your LSAT as early as you can too, that way if you aren't satisfied with the results, you have time to rewrite before applying. The courses you take in Winter can count, you need to get all your marks in by another deadline (can't remember off hand, check the website).

Good luck. Too much reading for my taste.

[Texas]

wow thats interesting...UNT has january admission for med school... and thank god...will give a break after finishing pre-med.

[johnny lats]

I'm accepted to the University of Manitoba for this september, and I am waitlisted for Calgary and UBC. I've talked to the admissions officers from every school in western Canada, so I would like to think that by now I know what it takes to get into law school.

-First off, unless you are a genius, your chances of getting in with only 2 years of undergrad is zilch. Even with three years. To do it, you basically have to have 90+ percentile on the LSAT and a 90%+ GPA (this is what I was told by an admissions officer). So if your planning on going into law, get your 4 year undergrad degree.
-All of the law schools start in september.
-I would write the LSAT first and see what your score is before planning on taking law. It is a difficult test, coupled with the fact that your score is ranked against all of the other prospective law school applicants/bright people who are taking the test. I wrote the exam a year ago, and there was four other people from my school that I knew writing it as well. After finding out their scores, two of them decided to pursue other fields, and the other two applied this year but received rejections from the schools.
I'm not trying to scare you, or dissuade you here, but you should realize that it is alot of work and very hard just to get into a school. Thats why I find it funny when I hear guys saying they are going into law, yet they havent even done their undergrad, written the LSAT, or researched the admissions criteria.
Basically law school is ALOT tougher to get into than most people realize. I was told by all of the admissions officers that the bar is being raised every year; that the cutoff point for those who get in has been raised alot the last few years. For an example, U of C told me that they received over 1000 applications this year for 1st year law, which is roughly 60-70 seats. So basically you have to be in the top 6-7% of all students to get in.
Some advice:
Get as high of an undergrad GPA as possible, even if that means taking a few GPA-boosters. Nail the LSAT...treat it like the most important test you will ever take and make sure you own it. Get to know 2-3 undergrad professors really well, so that you will have some good letters of reference when the time comes - the best letters come from someone who really knows you well. Get alot of volunteering and community work under your belt; law school like mature, well rounded people (the U of C is definately like this: they prefer mature students. Also notice that their average age of acceptance for a first year law student is 29). Dont wait till the end of january to send your applications away, get them done by the end of september/early october. Make sure your applications are perfect, and have 2-3 people read over them and help you edit them. Apply to as many schools as you can afford, definately dont put all your eggs in one basket and apply to only 1 school.

And as for the fellow who doesnt think its worth it to go to university that long:
Pick up any economics textbook/study and look at the lifetime earnings profiles of a high-school grad, a person with some post-secondary education, a person with a degree, and a person with an advanced degree. You will see a direct relationship between schooling and lifetime earnings.
Or course there is always a few exceptions to the rule (so I dont want to hear about your cousin billy-bob that dropped out of grade 10 and is now rich), but will happen more often than not.
Also, no field guarantees you a job. But as the other person said, the least unemployed people are those with university degrees (as well as those who are the most highly paid).

[Ben]

For a smart individual such as yourself, I would have hoped you would have been intelligent enough to understand that everyones ideas of success, a "good job" and a good lifestyle is different from others ideals. I myself can not personally justify the 7 years, you can. Good On Ya.

However everything up to that last paragraph I agree with.:thumbsup:

[Skyline_Addict]

A BIG thanks to you guys (especially Ben and Johnny).

I knew it would never be easy to get into law. Thanks to your input, I can see much more than just the adminstritave implications but also the moral grounds on which applying for law (or anything for that matter) insists.

I am by no way dissuaded by your advice, but I will definetely put some extra hours into the thought process regarding the decision on my future.

I will favourably admit that I did not know much about taking law under so many instances. Thanks for opening my eyes.

[maximus]

Originally posted by johnny lats

And as for the fellow who doesnt think its worth it to go to university that long:
Pick up any economics textbook/study and look at the lifetime earnings profiles of a high-school grad, a person with some post-secondary education, a person with a degree, and a person with an advanced degree. You will see a direct relationship between schooling and lifetime earnings.
Or course there is always a few exceptions to the rule (so I dont want to hear about your cousin billy-bob that dropped out of grade 10 and is now rich), but will happen more often than not.
Also, no field guarantees you a job. But as the other person said, the least unemployed people are those with university degrees (as well as those who are the most highly paid).

No offence, but how can you not agree with that Ben? You sound like someone that was rejected from the UofC or has no understanding of post secondary education since they don't have any.

The only area that I may agree with you is in the trades. You would be stupid to go to school for 4 years when experience is the key. Like a prof I had once said "If you don't put anything in you won't get anything out. If you just want to sit here cram and get a C instead of thinking studying and expanding your mind, drop the class and go build houses. You'll make more money" Thats so true. If I were to work in a trade like plumbing instead of going to the U, I would have a stack of cash. This is true for many trades especially with the high demand in some areas like housing etc. Thats the "opportunity cost" of getting a degree.

But I think a lot of people confuse degree and diploma. Yes there are a lot of people with diplomas working sub standard jobs. But you said people with degrees are working at $10-$15 or less?? Less than $10?? I find that VERY hard to believe. But lets say they are. Someone with a degree vs someone with 4 years experience. Don't tell me that someone with a degree will get passed over for the high school grad with 4 years experience. Come on man are you in denial?? Yes, University life involves drinking and partying but there also is some learning involved. Stuff that you can't learn "on the job". Of course a degree in french is different than a degree in commerce but still.

Johnny is definately right when he says look at the lifetime earnings profile. When you add a degree with work experience thats when you start making $$$ and a real living. Thats why Weapon_R said laugh at them in 5 years...when they're your boss!!

But I don't see how you cannot agree with Johnny's last paragraph. :dunno:

[Ben]

ok, this is really starting to piss me off.

Sorry to sound uneducated and whiney like a UofC negleted student (yes actually I am insulted by your last post) but maybe *gasp* just maybe earnings potential isn't TOP PRIORITY!?! Holy fuck, did you ever think of that?! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe becoming a Doctor or Lawyer isn't everyones top priority? Sure I want to live a comfortable life and all that good stuff, but I also want to be happy doing it. There are a lot of things involved with being a Doctor and a Lawyer. Long Hours, and a lot of strain on the home life.

I'm an entrepreneur, I like creating things and being unique.

Why are there so many makes and models of cars out there? Shouldn't everyone only buy Maybachs or Bentlys cause they're the most expensive and signify the most earnings potential? NEVER once did I say that University Grads on average make less than Non University Grads, so could you PLEASE STOP MAKING IT SOUND AS IF I DID!.


Also, my 10-15 dollar comment keeps coming up an aweful lot. I'm going to clarify that. Perhaps it was my lack of education that is throwing everyone off, I guess I wasn't spelling it out clear as crystal, and left too much implication. Kids who go to school just for the sake of going to school, and get a lame general studies type education and then come out and have nothing to apply to the work force is what I was referring too. Of course people with specialized degrees in Econ, Comm, B. SCI, Law, PhD etc etc will have great work opportunities and such. I have much respect for these jobs.

A month ago someone said I have low standards. I guess I really do.

Thanks everyone, you're really a great bunch.

[max_boost]

As long as we can agree that there are exceptions to everything, group hug now ok? LOL:rofl:

I hope Beyond is around in 20 years so I can revive this thread and see who made with an education and who made it without!:angel:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by max_boost
I hope Beyond is around in 20 years so I can revive this thread and see who made with an education and who made it without!:angel:

I only go to school so I don't have to work :D

[Skyline_Addict]

I have also had thoughts about getting an MBa or a Masters'/PHD in Econ.

Any comments/advice regarding this notion?

[lint]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
I have also had thoughts about getting an MBa or a Masters'/PHD in Econ.

Any comments/advice regarding this notion?

My friend is finishing up his MA Econ right now. He works in the banking industry, and if you can put up with the workload, you can make some nice coin.

If you're thinking of an MBA, think about it again after you've worked for 5-10 years. There are way too many people who jump into an MBA program because they can, with no real world experience, and expect to come out of it knowing how to manage people. Paper MBA's are useless because all they know is from sitting in a class. One thing that I have learned over the years, is that you can't learn people management from a book or a course. That is where real life experience comes in. Not saying that you can't be successful without the experience, but you will get much more out of it after you have some time under your belt. Your employer wil get that much more out of it too, as well as the people you end up managing. There are too few good managers out there today. That's a primary problem with corporate america.

[maximus]

Woa...Ben.... relax man. I was just saying how can you not agree with the guys last paragraph?? Its a fact!!

I agree with lint about the MA. Get some experience first.

[Weapon_R]

Masters in Economics is a fantastic choice, as there are TONS of opportunities for you. If you want to see it yourself, check out the calgary job sites and see what the starting salary of an MA Econ is...its pretty outrageous :eek: