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View Full Version : VC Demands a TRade!!!?



RiCE-DaDDy
06-24-2004, 12:17 PM
Wow crazy. Trade the baby. Mr. "1/2 man 1/2 amazing" is pretty much "1/2 man 1/2 season" now anyways.


ROB BABCOCK yesterday drew a subtle line in the sand with regard to Vince Carter. First Babcock seemed to confirm, through the ducking of a question, that Carter's agent has demanded a trade on behalf of the disgruntled Raptors star. Then Babcock, the club's new general manager, said that what a player wants isn't always what a player gets.

"My feeling is, if the player demands to be traded, it doesn't mean you trade him," Babcock said, a day before tonight's NBA entry draft. "I have to do what's best for this basketball team. If the best thing is to trade the player, and I can make our team better, then certainly I'll look at that. But if that's not the case, I'm not going to trade the player."

What about the damage an unhappy player could cause?

"This is a professional league and if a player is under contract, he should honour the contract, which means you play hard and give your best effort," Babcock said.

Babcock is free to claim he was talking in general terms rather than about Carter in particular, but you don't need a calculator to figure out that one plus one equals two.

According to numerous NBA sources, the message has been passed to Babcock that Carter wants out, and a list of preferred destinations may even have been provided. This, despite the fact Carter allegedly told a Florida newspaper this week that he was willing to give Babcock a chance.

Babcock talked openly about many things yesterday, but when asked point-blank if Carter's agent had demanded a trade, Babcock replied, "I've had discussions with his agent, but I'm not going to comment on trades or no trades."

Bingo.

After Babcock was named GM on June 7, he left phone messages for Carter that were not returned. However, the two ran into each other at the Air Canada Centre last week.

Babcock said Carter did not broach the subject of a trade during their hour-long discussion.

"My feeling leaving the conversation was that we were on the same page as far as basketball philosophy," Babcock said. "I think that's a very good start. What I stressed to Vince is, give us all an opportunity to get to know each other and find out whether you accept our philosophy. I like Vince. He's a good person, he's a great basketball player, and my hope is that he's going to want to play here in Toronto."

The key word there is "hope."

Babcock claimed he and Carter did not talk about whom the Raptors should hire as their next coach. When asked if he would seek Carter's input, Babcock said, "To me, a coaching decision is my decision, not a player's decision."

Carter, 27, has been upset since Babcock got the job, but it has little to do with Babcock personally. It also isn't strictly about Carter's preferred candidate for GM, Julius (Dr. J) Erving. Rightly or wrongly, Carter feels he was misled by the club's hierarchy during the GM search, and the Carter camp has concluded that as long as the ownership structure at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., remains intact, the Raptors never will be an elite team.

Babcock implied that he thinks Carter will cool down.

COOL DOWN

"Players these days sometimes just get upset and think they want to be traded," Babcock said. "Well, it's not that easy to make a trade. Sometimes it just can't get done because the salaries don't work.

"Players get emotional, coaches get emotional, GMs sometimes get emotional, and you're going to say things in competition that are emotional things. I don't take all those things too seriously at the beginning."

How serious Carter is about his trade request remains to be seen. Some of his beefs are quite legitimate. But if yesterday is any indication, Babcock is not going to be prone to doing whatever Carter wants, just because Carter wants it.

buh_buh
06-24-2004, 12:41 PM
What a little bitch. I say trade him. He's not the caliber of player he was 3-4 years ago anyway.

bigboom
06-24-2004, 01:08 PM
i have a feeling if they trade vince he is going to come back and bite them in the ass. ive always been a VC fan and i think they should try to keep him. i know he can be who he used to play liek but i knwo many ppl will disagree with me...

saiyajin
06-24-2004, 01:11 PM
i think vince can be who he used to be if he stops being afraid of getting injured again ...he needs an AI mentality hahah

lam-boy
06-24-2004, 01:13 PM
speculation has that AI might be the one who comes in return haha..

trading one problem for another.

accordboi_02
06-24-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by lam-boy
speculation has that AI might be the one who comes in return haha..

trading one problem for another.

I'd take Iverson over Carter in a heartbeat. Yeah AI has some problems, but at lesat he has heart and a will to win - two things SORELY lacking in Carter's game over the past 3 years now.

Carter needs a change of scenery if he ever hopes to get his game back, Toronto would be stupid to hang onto him if the right deal is presented to them.

bigboom
06-24-2004, 03:13 PM
id take carter over AI any day...carter just needs to play like he did in last years tourney and he will be fine. and eh can and will...but you also need to please your franchise players.

i still think they should have got dr. j as a gm...

accordboi_02
06-24-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by bigboom
id take carter over AI any day...carter just needs to play like he did in last years tourney and he will be fine. and eh can and will...but you also need to please your franchise players.

i still think they should have got dr. j as a gam...

The thing is, people have been saying that Carter needs to play like "blah blah blah" for the past three years, and he HASN'T done it for Toronto. A change of address for him would do wonders; the problem is his value is low now, so what can Toronto realistically get in return?

And hiring Dr J as GM would have been the most retarded move ever by the Raptors. The last thing they needed on that team is a guy who knows nothing about the managerial aspects of basketball all of a sudden running it.

CKY
06-24-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by accordboi_02

And hiring Dr J as GM would have been the most retarded move ever by the Raptors. The last thing they needed on that team is a guy who knows nothing about the managerial aspects of basketball all of a sudden running it.

:werd: , and carter first wanted to be traded because he doesn't like kevin o'neil, now that hes not gonna coach next year, hes still unsatisfied :thumbsdow , but i think the fact that JYD and Davis got traded to bulls played a big part. and yes carter is not the same player he was 3 years ago, and he doesn't have the heart to get back to that, what raptors needed was byron scott (proberly the best coach they could of gotten), guards and forwards with the mentality to drive in the lane rather than shoot and a decent centre to take the load off of chris bosh. i hated the way they played for the last few years because they just won't drive to the net and for the games they win most of em are because the team had a good shooting percentage that game on the perimeter

RiCE-DaDDy
06-24-2004, 11:22 PM
VC wouldnt last in Philly and AI would be too harsh to TO

SI-vic
06-24-2004, 11:42 PM
I say trade VC.
He isnt what he used to be, and if he's unhappy in TO then he'll just stay the same.
no heart= no game = no wins

sexualbanana
06-25-2004, 12:43 AM
AI is like the biggest anomaly in the NBA.

Here you have a player, with probably the worst attitude in terms of practice and team work. Sure he plays well in games, and he's damn good. But letting a player like AI romp around like he does sets a dangerous precedent in your locker.

I've coached basketball teams where players have had that sort of mentality. It's not pretty. If you let it go, other players will see it and act the same way. Thus creating a HUGE problem in the locker room.

If you clamp down, you'll have constant bitching and complaining on the part of the 'star' about his treatment. Which eventually will lead to a well publicized fed in the media (ie. Brown and AI), thus resulting in very ill feelings and a demand to be traded.

If it came down to a choice for me, it would be like:
VC --> Great potential. Lacks heart. Reasonable attitude
vs
AI --> GREAT skills. BIGGEST FUCKING HEART. Shittiest attitude
ever.

I would choose VC. A player like AI is cancer in the locker room and no coach should ever have to put up with some of the bullshit AI sometimes brings to the table.

Ajay
06-25-2004, 01:08 AM
VC has been kind of lacking since he's had his injuries but it's not because of his lack of physical ability...it's his lack of mental ability. He's thinking he's gonna get injured all the time (ala Patrick Ewing at the end of his career) and that's what's killing him. This requesting of a trade is just a way to get a monkey off his back.

I don't think he'll be traded...and if he is traded the Raptors better get something amazing in return. I don't agree that AI has no team ethic...that year they played the Lakers in the final they lost yes but there were a couple games where AI wasn't able to contribute in terms of scoring but put up big numbers in assists and steals. Sure his attitude is lacking when it comes to practices but that's NEVER gonna change. He's been in the league plenty of years and it's always been the same way.

What would be sweet is if Paul Pierce came to the Raptors!!

I also think hiring Dr. J might have been a mistake. Just because he's never had a coaching or GM job doesn't mean he has no basketball managerial skills....it's all about knowing the game overall. Look at Phil Jackson. The boy won NINE NBA title's but only one as a player....the other 8 came as a coach. Who would have thought that a former New York Knick who averaged less than 20 PPG for his career would become arguably the greatest coach in the game?

sexualbanana
06-25-2004, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Ajay
I don't agree that AI has no team ethic...that year they played the Lakers in the final they lost yes but there were a couple games where AI wasn't able to contribute in terms of scoring but put up big numbers in assists and steals. Sure his attitude is lacking when it comes to practices but that's NEVER gonna change. He's been in the league plenty of years and it's always been the same way.

But if you let an attitude like AI's run around like he does, it really affects the locker room and it undermines the coach's authority. Eventually turning it into a gong show, because everyone will know the coach doesn't have any actual power. All the power is in the hands of AI.

bigboom
06-25-2004, 09:12 AM
sexual banana has brought up a really good point. AI's ethic is garbage, lookat how many arguments he got into with brown due to practice and what not. u let that attitude spread among everyone and soon you have a team that doesnt want to practice and it will get lazy and sloppy, you need discipline.

i think VC can still be salvaged, all he needs to do is strngthen this summer, play a couple months with no injuries and he will be fine.

id hate to see TO get rid of vince because there goes the franchise, who can the get for VC right now? absolutely no one that has the potential of vince.

but werd on the paul pierce, not realistic but he is my favorite in the NBA for a reason :)

Si_FlyGuy
06-25-2004, 10:01 AM
VC and MoPete for shaq and rush?

bigboom
06-25-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
VC and MoPete for shaq and rush?

wtf? are you for real?

thats not even a realistic trade haha

accordboi_02
06-25-2004, 11:14 AM
The thing with AI though, is if you have the right coach, he CAN be contained. Brown did a masterful job with him, and eventually it got to mutual respect between the two. AI's lack of work ethic didn't permeate the dressing room, and the team won the East.

I don't think Carter is ever going to get better in Toronto again, too much pressure there, and he just needs a fresh start.

Also, someone who said Jackson has 8 coaching championships it's actually 9 - 6 with the Bulls and 3 with the Lakers. :thumbsup:

bigboom
06-25-2004, 11:40 AM
brign TMac back :)

RiCE-DaDDy
06-25-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by bigboom
brign TMac back :)

He hates T.O

bigboom
06-25-2004, 01:29 PM
i know...that was a joke.

CKY
06-26-2004, 01:44 AM
since we shoot so damn much, we should get nowitzki

legereandrew4
06-26-2004, 08:24 AM
you guys are saying you would take AI over Carter? wow... If i was in carters position i would want to be traded too. He has said before he always wants to live in toronto, he loves it there, but hes in the L. He wants a championship, he wants a ring on his finger, and with the raptors I dont think it will happen. But as for AI over Carter, AI is the one who went and sat in the crowd and pouted like a little bitch because he didnt start after he came off an Injurgy, liek come on, how sad is that?....

sexualbanana
06-26-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by legereandrew4
you guys are saying you would take AI over Carter?

I don't think anyone has said that. I said Carter over AI.

If I were VC, I would want to leave Canada period. Many analysts have said being in Toronto is actually hurting his value. Sure everyone on the planet knows him for dunks, but he's go so much more talent than that. If he were in the US, he would twice if not three times as marketable to Americans because in the US, basketball is high up there on the sports popularity hierarchy. With Canada, it's hockey and only hockey.

RiCE-DaDDy
06-26-2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by sexualbanana


I don't think anyone has said that. I said Carter over AI.

If I were VC, I would want to leave Canada period. Many analysts have said being in Toronto is actually hurting his value. Sure everyone on the planet knows him for dunks, but he's go so much more talent than that. If he were in the US, he would twice if not three times as marketable to Americans because in the US, basketball is high up there on the sports popularity hierarchy. With Canada, it's hockey and only hockey.

And with the way the Club is run (Maple Leaf Sports and eNtertainment CRAP and stupid management) raptors will never be championship contenders

hyperwhite
06-26-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy


And with the way the Club is run (Maple Leaf Sports and eNtertainment CRAP and stupid management) raptors will never be championship contenders

Just like the leafs :rofl: had to get that shot in lol