McGrady/Francis trade

[Si_FlyGuy]

what a steal for houston!!!

[PGTze]

To Houston:
- Tracy McGrady
- Juwan Howard
- Tyronn Lue
- Reece Gaines

To Orlando:
- Steve Francis
- Cuttino Mobley
- Kelvin Cato


Good trade for both teams I'd say. The Rockets got their Star, and the Magic got 3 solid players to help their depth. Cato will be one of the East's better center's next year. He just needs a chance to get the needed playing time.

[CKY]

i think houston can easily be the top 3 teams if yao can improve his stregth to play more physically and agressively, while mcgrady can stay healthy and distribute the ball

[Si_FlyGuy]

Tyronne Lue...the only person in the NBA who can consistently defend Iverson!!

[Jynx]

Orlando got the shaft of the deal
no one realises that juwan howard is a 17 and 8 kinda guy

which are solid numbers....

add lue and mcgrady
thats kraazie
wikked pick up by houston

many people say they will be like shaq and kobe of the past, but its not possible simply bcuz yao doesnt compare to what shaq was back than

[sexualbanana]

I think it's a good trade for both sides.

Orlando picks up a helluva backcourt in Mobley and Francis. They have the ability to combine for 50+ points a game between the two of them. Cato adds good size and rebounding down low. I'm not too familiar with Orlando's forwards, so I can't really say where he would fit.

Houston gets McGrady, which is basically the meat of the deal. Don't have to say much in terms of TMac. Lue is probably in there to play the point. With Francis and Mobley gone, they're a little weaker in the back court. But with Lue distributing to the ball with 2 proven options in Yao and MacGrady, he'll do a perfectly fine job. Not to mention he's quick enough and skilled enough to create his own chances. Howard will be in there as veteran leadership. In his younger days he played the same style as Yao, so he can teach Yao a few things that it probably took him awhile to figure out in the L.

All in all, both teams are getting what they want, while minimizing any weaknesses that will come from the trade. Sure Houston loses a GREAT backcourt, but they gain in a versatile and talented Tmac and a quick and smart playmaker/defender in Lue. Orlando loses their MVP and leader, but gain what is arguably one of the best backcourts in the L.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

The Francis/Mobley combo isn't as great as you think. Francis flat out sucks as a PG. He's basically a 2 w/ a 1's body.

Still a good trade for both sides. But I'd say Houston got the upper hand.

Still many questions tho, like how would tmac adjust to JVG? One of the main probs last year was Yao not gettin his touches, and bringing in Tmac allieviates this?

Tyronn Lue probably won't be starting. Houston has a 6.9 mil exception to spend on a good FA 1. hmmm Fisher? Barry?

this well mos def become Shaq/Kobe ver 2 in a couple years.

[mo_virgin]

^^^^

Hmmm... yao mcgrady lue... man thats gonna take some adjusting to. Not to mention they are all weird ass looking guys.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
The Francis/Mobley combo isn't as great as you think. Francis flat out sucks as a PG. He's basically a 2 w/ a 1's body.


I questioned that too, but I think that's what Lue is for. Having Lue and McGrady in the backcourt (which doesn't really matter because TMac floats back and forth between the 2 and 3) is like having one less outside shooter. Before there was Mobley and Francis because they had the shooter mentality.

With Lue bringing up the ball, he has the option for Yao down on the blocks and TMac on the wings. If either one gets the ball they're going to shoot. But it's up to Lue to decide who has the position to take the shot.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


I questioned that too, but I think that's what Lue is for. Having Lue and McGrady in the backcourt (which doesn't really matter because TMac floats back and forth between the 2 and 3) is like having one less outside shooter. Before there was Mobley and Francis because they had the shooter mentality.

With Lue bringing up the ball, he has the option for Yao down on the blocks and TMac on the wings. If either one gets the ball they're going to shoot. But it's up to Lue to decide who has the position to take the shot.

True, two gunners for one gunner, so yea more shots for yao, but juwan needs his shots too.

Another prob is the inside d. Yao is ok, but Juwan and Mo taylor are all O and no D.

I still think they gonna get an upgrade over Lue thru FA

[mo_virgin]

Is there a beyond basketball event?

[accordboi_02]

It is going to be interesting in Houston. T-Mac hated having to share the ball/spotlight with another star in Toronto; now he's claiming that he hates being the "only option" on a team.

So now we're back to him having to share the ball/spotlight with another player - does he handle it this time, or does he just whine and bitch in a couple of years which he has now done twice in his career.

The guy has talent, no doubt about that, but is he worth the future management headaches we all know he is going to cause??

[bigboom]

the thing abotu francis though is that he needs an offense that runs, is quick with the ball. you put him into a slow set offense like he had to play with yao and everything he can do is gone.

i think this is a good even trade. lue as a starter PG isnt a very good option to me, i think Houston will have to pick someone else up.

[PGTze]

Originally posted by mo_virgin
Is there a beyond basketball event?

No, but there should be...

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by mo_virgin
Is there a beyond basketball event?

Tried it once. Like 3 people showed up.

[Si_FlyGuy]

T-Mac left TO because they were up front with him and told him that they can not guarantee starting spot. Francis is a horrible ball distributor, despite his best efforts. Fisher'll be a great pickup, and Lue'll be great in a few years still - a great ball hawk off the bench. Orlando'll be great if their draft picks catch on fast. I can't wait to see how TMac and Yao team up.

btw..vote #2 for a beyond basketball meet.

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


Tried it once. Like 3 people showed up.

More like 6..

You, me, spec v and friend, mini-rage2, and some others.

[mo_virgin]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


Tried it once. Like 3 people showed up.

You guys should try again, beyond is a bit bigger now.

[wildrice]

Houston got the better part of the deal
Mcgrady's a 4 time all-star
and 2 time ppg leader
he's still young and still improving

in the long run, Houston wins

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^^

if there is a long run. mcgrady's contract has 1 year left.

[bigboom]

yeah after that one year mcgrady can run to where ever he wants again...

anyone remember when shaq left orlando? same thing may happen if tmac decides he doesnt like houston

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^
thats why magic traded him now, they dont want to make another mistake like they did 8 yrs ago

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
^
thats why magic traded him now, they dont want to make another mistake like they did 8 yrs ago

Yeah, letting Shaq go the way they did was a BAAAAAAD idea.

[bigboom]

exactly and thats why houston might get the short end of the stick on this trade if mcgrady decides to jsut up and leave. houston gave up the core of their backcourt and their superstar in francis.

anyone else notice the character problem mcgrady had? once they started losing he was whining and not leading...

[RiCE-DaDDy]

yea ppl always say how he has no heart or competitivness but in houston we'll see the real him

[GingeRRRBeef]

Originally posted by mo_virgin


You guys should try again, beyond is a bit bigger now.

Done and Done :D


http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50694

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by bigboom
anyone else notice the character problem mcgrady had? once they started losing he was whining and not leading...

I think he just realized the shittiness of that team. He was putting up MVP like numbers, yet they were still living in the basement.

Of course, you can also chalk it up to TMac not being a team player (which I think could be at least part of the truth).

[RiCE-DaDDy]

.

[max_boost]

It'll be interesting to see what happens next year. We know T-Mac is capable of dropping 50+ on any given night but how much better will Yao be? If Yao becomes an unstoppable force, the next dominant center, Houston is going to be a major force. Still, the West is so stacked, hard to say who will emerge.

You guys think Shaq is still going to Dallas? :drama:

[CKY]

Originally posted by max_boost

You guys think Shaq is still going to Dallas? :drama:

don't think so, well at least i hope not (never liked mavericks), and did malone retire?

EDIT: you know what uniform shaq would look good in? sacramento :D too bad they won't be able to afford him with overpaid guys like divac and jackson even though they're team leaders

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by CKY

EDIT: you know what uniform shaq would look good in? sacramento :D too bad they won't be able to afford him

And probably cuz they hate his guts

[bigboom]

im curious to see what happens in houston, because really you take out mobley, francis and cato that was basically the team minus yao. so im not sure if mcgrady is going into a better situation...

shaq going to dallas...maybe, i have a feeling it will happen, but that depends on how important they think nash is. since the mavs drafted harris and have a good young guard in howard they might let nash go and try and sign shaq.

[wildrice]

i don't know
see the mavs lose nash and nowitski if they wanna get shaq
i think it's a bad trade for the mavs

and yes, Malone is planning on retiring.
the Lakers dynasty is no more

phil jacksons mostly likely gone
shaq might get traded
malone's retiring
and correct me if i'm wrong
kobe's contract is over??

[bigboom]

phil jackson IS gone...not most likely.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Ok heres what is going on:

Phile Jackson GONE
Kobe contract over, Lakers will resign him at all costs
Shaq is gonna get traded, but with his contract, can a deal be made?
Payton is returning to Lakers

UPDATE: Nash to the SUNS!:eek: Looks like Suns not gonna get Kobe. Not official, but pretty much is

[saiyajin]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy


UPDATE: Nash to the SUNS!:eek: Looks like Suns not gonna get Kobe. Not official, but pretty much is


bahhh ya i heard that too shiet :banghead: but dallas had some pretty good guards that can replace nash i suppose

[bigboom]

meh lakers will try anything to sign Kobe, they can offer him the most money too...but will he be found guilty? :drama:

it will be interesting to see what happens in LA next year though, i think the clippers still want kobe too. but im pretty sure he is gonna sign with the lakers, payton and kobe forming the backcourt...scary duo.

and with kryzewski coming in to coach the lakers that will be very interesting, great coach both in half court sets and running offences.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

If Kobe is convicted, the contract becomes useless. It says somewhere if the player gets in trouble with the law then the contract becomes void or somethin like that. So the lakers got nothing to lose. Problem is they won't find out until its too late and teams can't use the money they commited to Kobe for other FA's.

[bigboom]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
If Kobe is convicted, the contract becomes useless. It says somewhere if the player gets in trouble with the law then the contract becomes void or somethin like that. So the lakers got nothing to lose. Problem is they won't find out until its too late and teams can't use the money they commited to Kobe for other FA's.

yeah thats what i mean, they commit $19 mill/season to kobe and they have potentially nothing to show...then all they got left is GP :)

maybe they could go after carter haha

[Jynx]

all of u guys are forgettin that juwan howard was apart of the deal 2.......hes a career 17pt and 8 rebound guy

those numbers simply cant be overlooked!!!

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Jynx
all of u guys are forgettin that juwan howard was apart of the deal 2.......hes a career 17pt and 8 rebound guy

those numbers simply cant be overlooked!!!

Never did overlook it. I said that Juwan's been in the league a long time. I think he's there to support Yao and show him a few things he's learned in the NBA. He's basically there to show the young players the kinds of things that players will learn through experience.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by bigboom


yeah thats what i mean, they commit $19 mill/season to kobe and they have potentially nothing to show...then all they got left is GP :)

maybe they could go after carter haha

The problem is timing of the trial. By the time they reach a verdict, all the free agents are gone.

[Jynx]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


Never did overlook it. I said that Juwan's been in the league a long time. I think he's there to support Yao and show him a few things he's learned in the NBA. He's basically there to show the young players the kinds of things that players will learn through experience.


well hes only 31, so i think he will still be a contributer.....however i do feel his numbers will drop now that hes playing with a dominant center...i expect him to average 14 and 8......which are still good enuf to be a starter.

[dezmarez]

houston is gonna be amazing with yao ming

[RiCE-DaDDy]

still need a pg and defensively they are :dunno: esp under JVG who plays a slow defensive style of game

[wildrice]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
still need a pg and defensively they are :dunno: esp under JVG who plays a slow defensive style of game

they have a point guard, Tyrone Lue. What's wrong with him?

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by wildrice


they have a point guard, Tyrone Lue. What's wrong with him?

hes not bad, but if u wanna compete for the title, u wont do it w/ lue aka predator

[Jynx]

Tyrone Lue is an above average point guard in this leaguee

he is very similar to d fish, a williams, e snow etc...

and hes a veryy fast, excellent defender...

[wildrice]

Tyrone's lues the best person to defend someone like Iverson

Have you seen Tyrone in action against Iverson?
Tyrone defends him good.
Like Jynx said, Tyrone's fast.

[CKY]

Originally posted by wildrice
Tyrone's lues the best person to defend someone like Iverson

Have you seen Tyrone in action against Iverson?
Tyrone defends him good.
Like Jynx said, Tyrone's fast.

well either houston goes out and fishs for a star PG or sticking with lue, they still need a solid backup guard for t-mac since he is quite injury proned

[bigboom]

think houston might go after fisher?
the thing about howard is he wont get many touches on the ball with yao being the center of van gundys offense. if u watched last season he wanted everything to go through yao. to me it never seems like the PF was an option in his offense...

[RiCE-DaDDy]

fisher is on the radar for sure, but theres also a rumor they might go w/ barry. i like barry better

[Jynx]

barry wuld give them better perimeter shooting, which is needed when the big man (yao) is so dominant.....it makes the defense honest

Also
Yao will constantly be doubled, so Juwan will always be open for those little mid range jumpers

He will be to yao as malone was to shaq this year..

[RiCE-DaDDy]

barry is awesome haha

he won the dunk contest in '96 right? ahha

[bigboom]

haha barry is wicked, but i didn tknow he could dunk lol

he is a good shooter though that will spread the d of any team thats for sure.

[huss]

yea HOUSTON DEFINATELY got the better trade....shaq yes better than yao...but TMAC kills kobe....

now with the team houston will do wikkid next year....

and yes Juwan Howard is EXTREMELY under rated...he is a solid player and is a good leader on the court

if u know basketball well, you'd know houston got the best deal

[bigboom]

Originally posted by huss
yea HOUSTON DEFINATELY got the better trade....shaq yes better than yao...but TMAC kills kobe....

now with the team houston will do wikkid next year....

and yes Juwan Howard is EXTREMELY under rated...he is a solid player and is a good leader on the court

if u know basketball well, you'd know houston got the best deal

i disagree. i think both teams came out even in this one, or pretty close anyways. cato while undersized is still decent. and look the the backcourt orlando got...how can you say thats a bad trade?

also look at all tmacs back problems...

[huss]

not a bad trade at all......
orlando definately strengthened their back-court...
I'm just sayin Houston really picked up a better deal
As for Orlando they got what they needed but houston just got more of what they need for a team to advance

[Jynx]

Originally posted by bigboom


i disagree. i think both teams came out even in this one, or pretty close anyways. cato while undersized is still decent. and look the the backcourt orlando got...how can you say thats a bad trade?

also look at all tmacs back problems...

i completly dissagree with that... the back court of lue and t mac is equivalent to that of mobley and francis in my opinion bcuz their pointsand assists basically match up ( u guys all forget that lue will give u 10pts and 5 assists every nite)...

Also T mac can create for himself better than any player in this league... cato is undersized and horrid on the offense.... if u compare him to howard its not even funny, howard owns him, and then throw in reece gains who is a promisinng young player, and it shows just how much of a better deal houston got

also u wanna look at tmacs back look at bboth francis and mobleys migraine issues

[accordboi_02]

Originally posted by Jynx


i completly dissagree with that... the back court of lue and t mac is equivalent to that of mobley and francis in my opinion bcuz their pointsand assists basically match up ( u guys all forget that lue will give u 10pts and 5 assists every nite)...

Also T mac can create for himself better than any player in this league... cato is undersized and horrid on the offense.... if u compare him to howard its not even funny, howard owns him, and then throw in reece gains who is a promisinng young player, and it shows just how much of a better deal houston got

also u wanna look at tmacs back look at bboth francis and mobleys migraine issues

Houston got the better PLAYER, but I'm not sure if they got the better deal yet. If they win the championship this year, then I'll say that they did get the better deal.

Orlando just went from a one-man team to a team with a strong backcourt to build around. Houston gets T-Mac for one year - what happens if he signs with another team after this year? What is Houston left with? Howard? :rofl: All they'll have is Yao, and they'll suck again until they get another #1 pick. Also, I'm interested to see how McGrady handles having to share the ball with Yao - he didn't like sharing in Toronto, what has changed him now that he won't mind?? There's absolutely no guarantee that McGrady will stick around Houston after this year.

[PGTze]

Originally posted by bigboom
haha barry is wicked, but i didn tknow he could dunk lol

he is a good shooter though that will spread the d of any team thats for sure.


The other barry, he meant the one that plays with Seattle currently. White man can jump damnit!:D

[PGTze]

Originally posted by huss
yea HOUSTON DEFINATELY got the better trade....shaq yes better than yao...but TMAC kills kobe....

now with the team houston will do wikkid next year....

and yes Juwan Howard is EXTREMELY under rated...he is a solid player and is a good leader on the court

if u know basketball well, you'd know houston got the best deal


Yeah well if you know basketball so well, then you would know that Tmac doesn't 'kill' Kobe at anything really, he might do some things slightly better, but that's about it.


Also, how is Juwan Howard underated? All he's done since he came to the NBA is become an underacheiving, over paid loser.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by PGTze



The other barry, he meant the one that plays with Seattle currently. White man can jump damnit!:D

Brent, not Jon. jon sucks ass hehe

[PGTze]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy


Brent, not Jon. jon sucks ass hehe

:werd:

[izzoblitzo]

the biggest fear right now is if the rockets dont adjust with mcgrady under vangundy's system, that mcgrady will do the same thing he did in orlando. The first priority is sign mcgrady to an extension, that way, he can't just walk out. At least they get something for him.

Rockets are getting an all star player that will put people in the seats, and sell merchandise.

Magic are getting a full meal deal, they are getting three of the Rocket's starting lineup from three seasons ago.

Good deal all around, but both come with baggage.

[PGTze]

Bump to an good old thread, so I don't have to make a new one:)


Originally posted by PGTze
To Houston:
- Tracy McGrady
- Juwan Howard
- Tyronn Lue
- Reece Gaines

To Orlando:
- Steve Francis
- Cuttino Mobley
- Kelvin Cato



What do you guys think of the big trade now?


I personally think the Magic came up big winners in this one. I thought they actually did very well for themselves when I first heard about the trade, but now that the season is playing out it is becoming more and more evident that the Magic won this trade. It is still tough to tell who wil benifit the most from the trade 5 years from now, but from the looks of it Houston is playing like crap, and Orlando is playing way better then they did last year.

One thing I think we all overlooked is the influence Cato would have on Dwight Howards development. With Cato in the lineup alot of the pressure is off Howard defensivley and rebounding wise, and Cato usually gaurds the other teams best big man which keeps the foul prone Howard out of foul trouble. That kids gonna be a gooder one day, he's already a monster and he's only 18 :eek:.

[CKY]

Originally posted by PGTze
Bump to an good old thread, so I don't have to make a new one:)



What do you guys think of the big trade now?


I personally think the Magic came up big winners in this one. I thought they actually did very well for themselves when I first heard about the trade, but now that the season is playing out it is becoming more and more evident that the Magic won this trade. It is still tough to tell who wil benifit the most from the trade 5 years from now, but from the looks of it Houston is playing like crap, and Orlando is playing way better then they did last year.

One thing I think we all overlooked is the influence Cato would have on Dwight Howards development. With Cato in the lineup alot of the pressure is off Howard defensivley and rebounding wise, and Cato usually gaurds the other teams best big man which keeps the foul prone Howard out of foul trouble. That kids gonna be a gooder one day, he's already a monster and he's only 18 :eek:.

i gotta agree with you on the howard part, plus his dad won't let him steer the wrong way so he's pretty gareenteed to not slumping

but i still don't think orlando got the better trade, all the credit for orlando's improvements this year should go to grant hill and howard more so than the francis mcgrady trade IMO

[Singel]

Haven't read the posts yet, but Magic got better this year, but Houston will have a chip' within the next 5 years, be it with McGrady or whoever they trade him for...Shaq and Kobe didn't win together for a few years...Shaq's a lot better than Yao, but Tmac's a lot better than Kobe.

Yao just needs to learn to make TMac understand who the man is, and maybe they can play together well...hopefully this relationship doesn't end as bad as Shaq/Kobe's will (On Christmas when Kobe is murdered on the court)