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WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 02:23 AM
I just got the turbo working correctly in my car and I have a pretty sweet basemap set up, on the rich side ofcouse, and I need another 2 weeks before i can afford a WB.

I"m just wondering if there is anybody who has a WB and would like to help a guy out(ill pay you ofcourse). I just need to do some quick street pulls with the car, log the runs(if possible), adjust the maps a bit, then do a couple more logs and tunning, shouldnt take too long.

I'd do it at a dyno, but they are just so damn expensive.:guns:

so if anybody can help me out or direct me to someone, please let me know. I don't wana blow the ringlands
:tongue:

finboy
07-11-2004, 02:32 AM
tuning isn't really somewhere you want to cheap out.

dyno tunning really isn't that expensive if you consider how much of a pain in the ass it'll be to replace the motor.

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by finboy
tuning isn't really somewhere you want to cheap out.

dyno tunning really isn't that expensive if you consider how much of a pain in the ass it'll be to replace the motor.

exactly, i didn't cheap out, the truth of the matter is, i have to drive my car, i can't afford a dyno or wb at the moment, and I don't wana be lean in boost. I can stay out of boost sure, but the wastegate is set really low and i just have a taste for boost, so i kinda wana get it tuned just a bit. :)

finboy
07-11-2004, 02:53 AM
do you even have egt?

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by finboy
do you even have egt?

lol, so you are trying to prove me wrong in a thread that all I"m doing is asking for help. damn. To answer your question, No, I don't have a EGT. EGTs are more directly related to timing than A/F, you can tune the fuel maps pretty well with just a WB. sure I'd love to have a EGT to adjust timing abit durring boost, make more power. but I simply can't afford it at the moment. I'm not cheaping out on fuel mangement if thats what your trying to say, I'm not using a gay FMU, or the crazy advance your timing AFC hack, I'm using something similar to hondata, and i'll eventually be running a WB.

I'm not trying to break quarter mile records, all im simply doing is trying to get a clean 12.5:1-12:1 durring boost, while having a safe linear retard. so I can drive the damn car.

finboy
07-11-2004, 07:48 PM
i asked if you had egt becuase a lot of the turbo dodge guys use egt's to tune their cars.

one guy in town has a 12 second daytona, tuned it using the egt and autometer a/f, and when i got it on the dyno the a/f ratio was ideal. you *can* tune using these two guages, but it takes lots of time. he also runs an fmu (for many years in fact) without issue.

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by finboy
i asked if you had egt becuase a lot of the turbo dodge guys use egt's to tune their cars.

one guy in town has a 12 second daytona, tuned it using the egt and autometer a/f, and when i got it on the dyno the a/f ratio was ideal. you *can* tune using these two guages, but it takes lots of time. he also runs an fmu (for many years in fact) without issue.

thats awesome, never heard of anyone using a EGT to tune A/F, but I'll look into it, I'll also look into a FMU (not)

anyway, looks like I won't be needing a WB after all, I blew my motor I never even boosted more then 1 psi.

look at the plugs for cylinder number 1 and 2 (the 2 on the right) they look pretty healthy don't they?

must be the bosch

Chris Ng
07-11-2004, 09:59 PM
yeah.. the sparkplug musta caused you to blow the motor :rolleyes:

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Chris Ng
yeah.. the sparkplug musta caused you to blow the motor :rolleyes:

:D

illeagle
07-11-2004, 10:30 PM
Spencer - owned x3:rofl:

that sucks, i hope to god that don't happen to me.. as long as i take advise from other people, and not be so stubborn, i should be OK, hey... i guess i'll see yah at the track...NOT

finboy
07-11-2004, 10:35 PM
better luck next time :dunno:

might want to look into a better headgasket and hopefully it won't pop again, by that point save some cash to get your car tuned ;) you can drive it around without boost, atleast you'll have a running car.

tsi_neal
07-11-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies

...
must be the bosch


Now we all know if you were running NGK your motor would be fine


for the record was it the head gasket? or somehting else

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 10:53 PM
i dunno what it was, i never hit more then 2 psi, and the ferrari was always lazy, i thought it was my basmap but i guess its the head gasket, could also be the ring lands:eek: dunno yet, gona pull the head.

its hard to get a good head gasket for my ferrari, only good one is the HKS metal, and its like 250$$$:eek: I guess i could always get the block o-ringed.

i'll pull the head on the ferrari 2morow, let you guys know

finboy
07-11-2004, 10:54 PM
oem with headstuds and less boost :dunno:

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by finboy
oem with headstuds and less boost :dunno:

ARP head studs, and a new stock head gasket coated in 15 coats of copper spray should do the trick. :D

WGR4Pussies
07-11-2004, 11:09 PM
by the way, here is the setup on the ferrari...

;)

ZC, T3 48/48, ported HF manifold, open DP :bigpimp: DSM black top 450cc injectors, Turboedit 2.0. audi intercooler, bosch BOV.

had no intercooler on at the time, need some more 90 degree bends and my entanks modified.

http://www3.telus.net/molnarb/turbo%20027.jpg


check out the wate gate acutator relocation kit, i changed it after this picture was taken.. also check out the pimping platic BOV, only place i could weld it to at the time, I welded a 3/4 cromed socket to some galvanized pipe, whats wrong that picture :rofl: PS eat your heart out legendboy
http://www3.telus.net/molnarb/turbo%20028.jpg

http://www3.telus.net/molnarb/turbo%20038.jpg

http://www3.telus.net/molnarb/turbo%20039.jpg

http://www3.telus.net/molnarb/turbo%20042.jpg

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 08:18 AM
whats wrong with that pic? (other than the honda motor :poosie: )
well i dont know honda's but i do know that NOBODY mounts the air filter directly to the turbo sitting directly under the exhaust manifold. thats my vote for whats wrong...

m10-power
07-12-2004, 11:05 AM
Do you have a filter on that bypass valve because its held open anytime your in vacuum ~-1psi. Which would suck in dirt...

I have tune via EGT, which works well for mixture but can easily be confused if too much ignition retard it applied under boost. I also have a WB with 6 sensor datalogging, wired into my SDS including the knock sensor. Very handy for setting up the ignition retard, peak torque ignition tuning made much simpler.

You've got bigger issues if your toasting your engine at ~2 psi, shouldn't even need ignition retard at that low of boost. I don't start pulling timing out of my engine until near 8psi, and its an old 2 valve engine running 9:1 CR.

My money is on the piston in the cylinder the oily sparkplug came out of being busted.:(

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by m10-power
Do you have a filter on that bypass valve because its held open anytime your in vacuum ~-1psi. Which would suck in dirt...

I have tune via EGT, which works well for mixture but can easily be confused if too much ignition retard it applied under boost. I also have a WB with 6 sensor datalogging, wired into my SDS including the knock sensor. Very handy for setting up the ignition retard, peak torque ignition tuning made much simpler.

You've got bigger issues if your toasting your engine at ~2 psi, shouldn't even need ignition retard at that low of boost. I don't start pulling timing out of my engine until near 8psi, and its an old 2 valve engine running 9:1 CR.

My money is on the piston in the cylinder the oily sparkplug came out of being busted.:(

yeah, something was obviously busted or going in the first place, maybe the rings, ther are 2 spark plugs covered in oil, I'm gona do a comrepssion test then pull the head.

finboy
07-12-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal
whats wrong with that pic? (other than the honda motor :poosie: )
well i dont know honda's but i do know that NOBODY mounts the air filter directly to the turbo sitting directly under the exhaust manifold. thats my vote for whats wrong...

lots of people mount the filter directly on the turbo, there is no problem in doing that.

Illusionsir
07-12-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by finboy


lots of people mount the filter directly on the turbo, there is no problem in doing that.


:werd:

same way i have mine set up, and no problems

legendboy
07-12-2004, 06:25 PM
Thats some ghetto goodness you got goin on there!

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by finboy


lots of people mount the filter directly on the turbo, there is no problem in doing that.


im gonna have to disagree. I cant think of a worse place to mount the air filter. where in the engine bay is the air the absolute hottest? answer: surrounding the exhaust manifold. next question whats the best way to make hot exhaust areas hotter? answer: put a turbo in there. Question #3 what makes more power hot air or cool air? answer: cool air of course...

really i could go on for quite some time like that, but ill start to sound like a dick. the bottom line is that there are no immeadiate problems with mounting the filter directly to the turbo. but with turbo cars your already fighting an uphill battle with heat and there is no point in making it worse by getting intake air temps some 25-50* hotter than you need to.
Some of the real drawbacks here are things like heatsoaking your intercooler faster (or using a bigger IC core than you really have to = more pressure drop and resistance to flow ie more lag and running the turbo out of its efficiancy range faster). Hot intake temps mean you cant run as much boost before you worry about knock. less timing advance. less power.

the ONLY good thing about it would be cost, you save what 75 bucks on not having to get a mandrel bent pipe and a silicone coupler...

finboy
07-12-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal



im gonna have to disagree. I cant think of a worse place to mount the air filter. where in the engine bay is the air the absolute hottest? answer: surrounding the exhaust manifold. next question whats the best way to make hot exhaust areas hotter? answer: put a turbo in there. Question #3 what makes more power hot air or cool air? answer: cool air of course...

really i could go on for quite some time like that, but ill start to sound like a dick. the bottom line is that there are no immeadiate problems with mounting the filter directly to the turbo. but with turbo cars your already fighting an uphill battle with heat and there is no point in making it worse by getting intake air temps some 25-50* hotter than you need to.
Some of the real drawbacks here are things like heatsoaking your intercooler faster (or using a bigger IC core than you really have to = more pressure drop and resistance to flow ie more lag and running the turbo out of its efficiancy range faster). Hot intake temps mean you cant run as much boost before you worry about knock. less timing advance. less power.

the ONLY good thing about it would be cost, you save what 75 bucks on not having to get a mandrel bent pipe and a silicone coupler...

mounting your filter on your turbo will not blow your motor, you will see VERY small gains if you move the filter away, and increasing to a bigger intercooler will not make you lag like a mofo regardless of what you've heard. the spearco 1080 cfm intercooler has less than .7psi pressure drop from end tank to end tank and you don't need even close to that much for an application like this. guys in town have run up to 14 feet of intercooler pipe without any loss in performance, this topic has been beat to death. he *should* eventually move the filter further away if he's trying to get a little more power out of it, but it shouldn't be first on his list.

illeagle
07-12-2004, 09:20 PM
If your running an intercooler, then it shoulden't matter where your filter is... but in spencer's un-intercooled application, maybe move the filter away from the heat... or get a tube, blowing outside air on it:dunno:

finboy
07-12-2004, 09:48 PM
on an intercooled application, a cooler air charge will still net some gains, but they really aren't that great. most people i know with turbo car's pull the filter off all togeather at the track and run an open turbo, not the best idea, but it works for some gains

Illusionsir
07-12-2004, 09:48 PM
as i recall, Colins integra (speedtech) has his air filter attached right to the inlet side of his turbo. i dont see him complaining about 400+ hp....

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 10:22 PM
so you bastards, whats wrong with my engine?> :nut:

finboy
07-12-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
so you bastards, whats wrong with my engine?> :nut:

its a d-series :dunno: :D

Redlyne_mr2
07-12-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by finboy


its a d-series :dunno: :D
:rofl: :werd: We all admire your efforts however I think you've been beat by a damn weak engine.

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

:rofl: :werd: We all admire your efforts however I think you've been beat by a damn weak engine.

lol, you guys are ill-informed. D-series arn't weak.

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by finboy


mounting your filter on your turbo will not blow your motor, you will see VERY small gains if you move the filter away, and increasing to a bigger intercooler will not make you lag like a mofo regardless of what you've heard. the spearco 1080 cfm intercooler has less than .7psi pressure drop from end tank to end tank and you don't need even close to that much for an application like this. guys in town have run up to 14 feet of intercooler pipe without any loss in performance, this topic has been beat to death. he *should* eventually move the filter further away if he's trying to get a little more power out of it, but it shouldn't be first on his list.


first im hoping you read where i said you wont hurt anything... (unless hes trying to squeeze the MAX out of the turbo)

but really is it that difficult to understand that cooler air is more power, add 50* to the cold side of the turbo and thats still 50 extra on the hot side and 50 more that the IC needs to work for and that much closer to heatsoak... and im hoping you also understand that a 1080cfm intercooler will perfom like crap if you try and run 400cfm through it, sure it will cool the air but it WILL create more lag. the IC core needs to be matched to the rest of the system, also sparco's are AWESOME units, most good IC's will give you near 2psi pressure drop for a properly sized unit, for one bigger than needed expect more. As for the guys running 14feet of pipes, id like to see them have no loss in performance if they were running at or very near the turbos efficency limits, hello hot air.

what im more than willing to concede to is that if your running in the middle of the turbos compressor map with a good IC than that extra heat wont do much to hurt ya. but try and squeeze the most out of a setup and all of a sudden the air filter placemnet is critical.

illeagle
07-12-2004, 11:16 PM
yah, my D-series has like 90 HP, that's weak, fucking sewing machine motors...

is there fluid on top of your pistons? Dude you prolly blew a head gasket. TDC, rip apart the motor, **send the head for machining, cleaning, and crack testing** it costs like $60.00, check your block for warpage by doing the straight edge/feeler guage method, stick an OEM ($24.00- OEM) or better headgasket on (cometic HG), ARP head bolts, and assemble.. don't half ass the job, do everything the right way, no short cutting, otherwise you'll spend the rest of your summer under your hood, ford styles... Good luck, hopefully everything works out for you, keep us posted..

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
so you bastards, whats wrong with my engine?> :nut:

what colour is the oil and the coolant? How many total miles on the motor? (you did rebuild it right) Any chance you checked the plugs before it went on ya? im thinking it could be possible that you have a couple bad or missing valve seals (if a shop did the work ive heard of worse) How did it sound when you knew it broke?

id REALLY doubt that its 2 holed/melted/broken cyl's side by side. My first guess is the headgasket. and really need more info to make more guesses

and BTW if your oil is chocolate milk please change all the bearings, that shit will ruin them as soon as it touches them and id hate for you to get a nasty rod knock a month from now

finboy
07-12-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal



first im hoping you read where i said you wont hurt anything... (unless hes trying to squeeze the MAX out of the turbo)

but really is it that difficult to understand that cooler air is more power, add 50* to the cold side of the turbo and thats still 50 extra on the hot side and 50 more that the IC needs to work for and that much closer to heatsoak... and im hoping you also understand that a 1080cfm intercooler will perfom like crap if you try and run 400cfm through it, sure it will cool the air but it WILL create more lag. the IC core needs to be matched to the rest of the system, also sparco's are AWESOME units, most good IC's will give you near 2psi pressure drop for a properly sized unit, for one bigger than needed expect more. As for the guys running 14feet of pipes, id like to see them have no loss in performance if they were running at or very near the turbos efficency limits, hello hot air.

what im more than willing to concede to is that if your running in the middle of the turbos compressor map with a good IC than that extra heat wont do much to hurt ya. but try and squeeze the most out of a setup and all of a sudden the air filter placemnet is critical.

i fully understand that the temperature will be different with a cold air intake set up on the turbo, but it won't get you that much.

my point on the sperco intercooler was that you can get an effecient large intercooler that won't become heatsoaked.

as for lag with intercooler piping, intercooler to big, blah blah blah, its been discussed, do a search to find it.

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by finboy


i fully understand that the temperature will be different with a cold air intake set up on the turbo, but it won't get you that much.

as for lag with intercooler piping, intercooler to big, blah blah blah, its been discussed, do a search to find it.

why would i do a search when i already have the facts. and just because a few people on this board have had good results with less than ideal setups doesnt mean that they wouldnt see great results with a proper setup.
and maybe that result only nets them .2 in the quarter... but that could be the difference between beign stuck in the 12's and running in the 11's. the bottom line is its worth something.

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by illeagle
yah, my D-series has like 90 HP, that's weak, fucking sewing machine motors...

is there fluid on top of your pistons? Dude you prolly blew a head gasket. TDC, rip apart the motor, **send the head for machining, cleaning, and crack testing** it costs like $60.00, check your block for warpage by doing the straight edge/feeler guage method, stick an OEM ($24.00- OEM) or better headgasket on (cometic HG), ARP head bolts, and assemble.. don't half ass the job, do everything the right way, no short cutting, otherwise you'll spend the rest of your summer under your hood, ford styles... Good luck, hopefully everything works out for you, keep us posted..

lol, yeah, well I"m wondering If its the head gasket since D-series are a open deck design, and since there is no oil in the coolant and vice versa, I'm gona do a compression test then pull the head, we'll see. There is no ARP head stud kit fot the ZC and the cometic headgasket is also not very good at all for the ZC.

if its the head gasket, I"ll get the b16 ARP head stud kit (will work, one stud needs to be cut) and a stock head gasket with about 15 or so coats of copper spray :D

if its the rings, its time for some suzuki vitara pistons, LS rods, total seal rings, and a complete rebuild.

:)

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal


why would i do a search when i already have the facts. and just because a few people on this board have had good results with less than ideal setups doesnt mean that they wouldnt see great results with a proper setup.
and maybe that result only nets them .2 in the quarter... but that could be the difference between beign stuck in the 12's and running in the 11's. the bottom line is its worth something.

don't bother arguing with them :thumbsup:

finboy
07-12-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal


why would i do a search when i already have the facts. and just because a few people on this board have had good results with less than ideal setups doesnt mean that they wouldnt see great results with a proper setup.
and maybe that result only nets them .2 in the quarter... but that could be the difference between beign stuck in the 12's and running in the 11's. the bottom line is its worth something.

actually, thes are people who have tried different situations and have seen no gain, as in TESTED proof.

http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14866.0

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39516&highlight=intercooler+size

EDIT, fixed 2 links

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal


what colour is the oil and the coolant? How many total miles on the motor? (you did rebuild it right) Any chance you checked the plugs before it went on ya? im thinking it could be possible that you have a couple bad or missing valve seals (if a shop did the work ive heard of worse) How did it sound when you knew it broke?

id REALLY doubt that its 2 holed/melted/broken cyl's side by side. My first guess is the headgasket. and really need more info to make more guesses

and BTW if your oil is chocolate milk please change all the bearings, that shit will ruin them as soon as it touches them and id hate for you to get a nasty rod knock a month from now

oil and coolant are fine, spark plugs where fine before i boosted 1-2psi, engine is JDM so it probly wasn't well maintained, supposedly had about 140k on it, burned a tiny amount of oil (about a litre every 5000) ZCs are notorious for bad valve seals, so it could be that.

yeah, i hope its the head gasket but I don't see how when each cylinder is surrouned by coolant (open deck design-coolant jacket) so i doubt it.

The 2 oil filed cylinders are the one where the PCV valve is attached too, I pulled the PCV valve and it was covered in oil. But that still doesn't explain the lazyness of the motor.

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by finboy


actually, thes are people who have tried different situations and have seen no gain, as in TESTED proof.

http://www.performance-shop.com/yab...p?topic=14866.0

http://www.turbododge.com/showthrea...rcooler+too+big

lol, nice dead links

PAge 2 ownage

illeagle
07-12-2004, 11:42 PM
a compression test or leakdown test before you rip it apart is a great idea. I'd be stumped if you have good compression lol. :nut:

tsi_neal
07-12-2004, 11:47 PM
its entirely possibly, but totally unlikely at 2psi, that your lifting the head and blowing oil under boost. If the headgasket was bad to start with 2psi on a high compression motor never designed for boost could do it :confused:

i guess i just dont see how 2psi could possibly wreck two pistons side by side, where a HG is very often two cyl side by side. im assuming that you were accelerating but not that hard right? and you have a rich base map... unless the motor was ready to grenade itself...

finboy
07-12-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal
its entirely possibly, but totally unlikely at 2psi, that your lifting the head and blowing oil under boost. If the headgasket was bad to start with 2psi on a high compression motor never designed for boost could do it :confused:

i guess i just dont see how 2psi could possibly wreck two pistons side by side, where a HG is very often two cyl side by side. im assuming that you were accelerating but not that hard right? and you have a rich base map... unless the motor was ready to grenade itself...

quite possible that the motor was on its last legs and didn't like boost.

why its always a good idea to check the motor over before you boost it.

WGR4Pussies
07-12-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal
its entirely possibly, but totally unlikely at 2psi, that your lifting the head and blowing oil under boost. If the headgasket was bad to start with 2psi on a high compression motor never designed for boost could do it :confused:

i guess i just dont see how 2psi could possibly wreck two pistons side by side, where a HG is very often two cyl side by side. im assuming that you were accelerating but not that hard right? and you have a rich base map... unless the motor was ready to grenade itself...

well you see the condition of the motor is unknown, when i did a compression test a couple weeks ago it was a low 160 across (within spec of 150) so The engine was kinda tired.

I also switched to a 20w50 weight oil when i threw on the turbo, maybe that had something to do with it.:dunno:

and at idle i was only geting -10 inhg instead of the normal 16-20, altho I accidently blew about 50 psi into the gauge so that might have screwed it up :rofl:

WGR4Pussies
07-13-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by tsi_neal
its entirely possibly, but totally unlikely at 2psi, that your lifting the head and blowing oil under boost. If the headgasket was bad to start with 2psi on a high compression motor never designed for boost could do it :confused:

i guess i just dont see how 2psi could possibly wreck two pistons side by side, where a HG is very often two cyl side by side. im assuming that you were accelerating but not that hard right? and you have a rich base map... unless the motor was ready to grenade itself...

o no, i was only reving it up at idle, and took it for some short test drives, pushing it to the floor ofcourse :bigpimp:

legendboy
07-13-2004, 08:14 AM
Looks like your getting some oil blow by (cracked ringlands). Your manifold is leaking and you can see the oil on the head. I wouldn't trust your boost gauge.

Here is a pic of my b20 pistons after an overboost mishap

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/thanem/blown/New%20Folder/Picture%20007.jpg

WGR4Pussies
07-13-2004, 12:56 PM
damn, thats what I was afraid of. :barf:

OK_Computer
07-13-2004, 10:10 PM
eww that's bad news

WGR4Pussies
07-14-2004, 02:18 PM
compression is a 160 across

WTF


:banghead: :dunno:

WGR4Pussies
07-19-2004, 03:12 PM
WEll i think its the PCV valve so im gona clean out the cylinders today, get a new PCV, reinstall the turbo, run a stock no boost tune and drive it around abit, then change the plugs and try boosting again :D

I still need someone to wide band tune my car cause ek9max didn't pay me enough for my services, so i cant afford a wideband :rofl: :rofl:

tsi_neal
07-19-2004, 08:01 PM
i know its no wide band but do those things have a knock sensor?

between knock and O2 voltage (and well everyother bit of info you got) youd be suprised how close you can get a base tune to being perfect.

just a thought anyways

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 12:44 AM
nope, no knock sensor, i don't even wana think about knock, one ping and i'll probly blow my ring lands, hahahaha.

tsi_neal
07-20-2004, 09:02 AM
id say time for a knock sensor, WAY cheaper than a wideband and at this point in your game id say more usefull.

gotta remember even when a boosted car has a perfect A/F ratio you can still knock. So get the knock sensor tune with it and dial up the boost as far as it safely goes, pay for an hour of dyno time and make some final adjustments there and youll still be ahead of the cost of a wideband.

legendboy
07-20-2004, 09:21 AM
tsi_neal, I don't think your advise is very good. This guy needs a dyno/wideband and someone who knows how to tune a honda. Plain and simple. Watching 0-1v o2 voltage won't get him anywhere but blown up. Same with watching raw, completely un-filtered knock sensor voltage. That is pretty much completely useless.

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by legendboy
tsi_neal, I don't think your advise is very good. This guy needs a dyno/wideband and someone who knows how to tune a honda. Plain and simple. Watching 0-1v o2 voltage won't get him anywhere but blown up. Same with watching raw, completely un-filtered knock sensor voltage. That is pretty much completely useless.
true dat!!!

I can tune it, ive done it before, I just don't have a WB, haha.

legendboy
07-20-2004, 03:35 PM
I'm sure you can come up with $100 bux for a couple dyno pulls at dynomotive!

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by legendboy
I'm sure you can come up with $100 bux for a couple dyno pulls at dynomotive!

i've never been to a dyno
do they charge by hour, or by pull, cause I would need time (and a computer, i don't have a lap top:() to alter the tune and then re-burn a chip, I asume they print out a sheet right away( or have a reviewable logging of the pull) so I can promtly alter the right values. if its only 100 bucks for an hour, i guess thats not bad, but thats 1/6 of the cost of a WB, so maybe I'll just wait, or find someone who is willing to let me borrow it for an hour.:dunno:

finboy
07-20-2004, 05:07 PM
dyno'ing is cheap, its charged by the hour, most all places have lap tops.

try a search for dynoshops, dynomotive is who i would recomend.

Weapon_R
07-20-2004, 05:19 PM
Most ppl buy WB to make money off them.

Just talk to Toma, and get Rage2 to help. Shouldn't cost a bundle, and your car will be in the best of hands.

finboy
07-20-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
Most ppl buy WB to make money off them.

Just talk to Toma, and get Rage2 to help. Shouldn't cost a bundle, and your car will be in the best of hands.

AND, you'll make maximum power and won't EXPLODE :thumbsup:

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 06:38 PM
WTF, holy shit, damn what in the fuck,

I just got the car back together, test the boost guage (seems to be pretty acurate) put the turbo back on, get a proper basemap, new PCV, and start it up, runs pretty good, let it warm up a bit, pull the plugs, kinda got a bit of oil on them so i clean them up, put them back in, replace the leeds, start it up again, run it for a couple mins, pull the plugs, alittle wet, looked like oil, put them back in. start it up, go for alittle drive, boost about 3 psi, car is really slow, im kinda pissed, pull the spark plugs again, clean them (2 were kinda oily/wet) and then start it up, it runs just like normal, i get out just to check on everything well its running and guess what, i forgot to put on one of the spark plug leads, but its still running like normal, so i pull the one next to it, car still runs the same but its making a clicking noice, i replace them both, no change, so i pull one of the other 2 normal cylindes spark plugs leads, idle changes dramasticly


LMAO, so after all this it was the wires, holy shit, I just found a set on beyond (10mm, nice!) but damn, the car wasn't that slow for only running on 2 cylinders, haha anyway, I'll go pick up the wires and then I hope i can feel some boost!!!

:angel:

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 07:00 PM
I was wrong, WTF

ok well I had tested the wires before I made the above post, but i just went back and tested them, i was on the wrong setting of the meter and ofcourse now they work, so i put them all back in, start the car, and remove the wire for the number one cylinder, no change in idle, i test it with the meter and ofcorse it is working, i even held it close to the body and it sparks, same with the other wire. So the fucking wires are working, the sparkplugs are working.

I"m getting Good compression, Spark, new pcv valve (no oil in the those 2 cylinders now, so then what the fuck is going on, could those 2 cylinders be dieseling (i never reved it up when those 2 plug wires were removed, but i'll try that now) or are the valves burnt or something??

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 07:35 PM
I try switching the the plugs, no difference, cylinders 1 and 2 are screwed up, when cold, they get good compression (gotta get my compression tester back to check them when warm, i guess when the car heats up they start to fuck up maybe?)

-oil and coolant are good
-spark plugs are fine for cylinders 3 and 4 (nice and brown) but now for cylinders 1 and 2 they are wet, but not oily.
- spark plug wires are good
-good compression when cold
-new PCV now.
-only about 10-12 vac instead of what use to be a normal 16-18.

So i guess maybe its the new injectors I installed (i dunno how, but i'll switch back to stock ones, see what happens) or something to do with compression, maybe burnt valves or rings, or something that starts to fuck up with heat>

I guess it could also be something sucked into the intake manifold? blocking those 2 ports, haha, i dunno, man this really pisses me off, I wish astleast i knew what the problem was.

:guns:

tsi_neal
07-20-2004, 08:07 PM
try this, pull your plug wires off the plugs (one at a time) put in a test plug ground the plug on the motor and start the motor. Is there spark?
i guess im thinking that you might have a problem in one of your coil packs (are there coil packs on hondas?)


as for the knock guage... well i thought it might work, it sure has worked well for me in the past. one that comes to mind was a built maserati biturbo (carbed motor, knock guage, plugs and seat of the pants was all we had to go off of) when that thing ran right (key words, never seen a car that was so moody) it was FAST
DSM guys rely heavily on the factory knock sensor, its working well so far for me...

legendboy
07-20-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
WTF, holy shit, damn what in the fuck,

if your only pulling that much vaccum there is something wrong :eek:

Toma
07-20-2004, 08:26 PM
Intercooler efficiency is a percentage. Say it is 80% efficient.... you honestly think feeding it 180 degree air will not be significant compared to feeding it 80 degree air?

Shake your heads :nut:

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal
try this, pull your plug wires off the plugs (one at a time) put in a test plug ground the plug on the motor and start the motor. Is there spark?
i guess im thinking that you might have a problem in one of your coil packs (are there coil packs on hondas?)


yeah, thats the next thing im gona do, like the wires do work, and are carrying a spark, I pulled the dizzy cap and everything seemed ok. I also went back to stock injectors, with the stock Ecu, still the same.

So now that i think about it, something has to be wrong internally, im gona get the compression tester 2morow, warm the car up, then do a test, if its still the same then I have no idea, but if its low (which it probly will be) I'll probly just pull the engine, buy a d16 and boost that while i rebuild the ZC :nut:

finboy
07-20-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies


yeah, thats the next thing im gona do, like the wires do work, and are carrying a spark, I pulled the dizzy cap and everything seemed ok. I also went back to stock injectors, with the stock Ecu, still the same.

So now that i think about it, something has to be wrong internally, im gona get the compression tester 2morow, warm the car up, then do a test, if its still the same then I have no idea, but if its low (which it probly will be) I'll probly just pull the engine, buy a d16 and boost that while i rebuild the ZC :nut:

might want to get a leakdown tester as well.

WGR4Pussies
07-20-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by finboy


might want to get a leakdown tester as well.

yeah, althougha leak down tester is 80 bucks and I was under the impression that they only help you get a better idea of a problem if you already have low compression.

tsi_neal
07-20-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Intercooler efficiency is a percentage. Say it is 80% efficient.... you honestly think feeding it 180 degree air will not be significant compared to feeding it 80 degree air?

Shake your heads :nut:

THANK YOU:thumbsup:

finally someone speaks sence, i just gave up, figured it wasnt worth arguing over the internet


WGR4, do one thing at a time please. it will make your life way easier. be 100% confident that there are no spark issues, then no fuel issues, etc. it seems like youre going off on tangents and throwing parts every which way. just leave it set up ready to go untill you track down the one problem. Im starting to wish i had time so i could go help you in person, get things going in a day i bet

WGR4Pussies
07-21-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by tsi_neal


THANK YOU:thumbsup:

finally someone speaks sence, i just gave up, figured it wasnt worth arguing over the internet


WGR4, do one thing at a time please. it will make your life way easier. be 100% confident that there are no spark issues, then no fuel issues, etc. it seems like youre going off on tangents and throwing parts every which way. just leave it set up ready to go untill you track down the one problem. Im starting to wish i had time so i could go help you in person, get things going in a day i bet

yea, i shoudl slow down, its just im so pissed off and then so happy, its like a drug:devil:

legendboy
07-21-2004, 08:25 AM
dido. I think your next step should be doing a leak down test. I didn't realize you were running non-intercooled. That confirms my suspecions even more.

WGR4Pussies
07-21-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by legendboy
dido. I think your next step should be doing a leak down test. I didn't realize you were running non-intercooled. That confirms my suspecions even more.

ok, well I'll buy a leak down tester then just return it ;) but yeah, what really boggles my mind is I never ever really boosted, I know guys who boosted more then what i did for days with no fuel management. All i did was drive it up my driveway (i have a long driveway) and tried to boost, guage went just above 0 to about 1-2 psi, for like 5 seconds at most. I guess it could be the ring lands, but I probly just burnt my rings...but why 2 cylinderS?

legendboy
07-21-2004, 12:45 PM
ok lets try to reason this out. if you only boosted 1 psi then your ringlands arn't cracked.

Did you have the motor running in this car before you turboed it? It was running fine and dandy?

Does/did it burn oil before you turboed it?

Did you change the t-belt or have the valve train out?

Did you have the head off at all?

What type of oil are you using?

Does the car have any noticable external oil leaks?

Is it better or worse when warmed up?

Does it overheat?

Did you check your valve cover spark plug oil seals?

Are you using a catch can or breather setup?

Is your pcv container on the back of the block full?

Did you check it?

Is it dry?

WGR4Pussies
07-21-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by legendboy
ok lets try to reason this out. if you only boosted 1 psi then your ringlands arn't cracked.


yeah, thats what i was thinking, I think whatever happened was not a result of boost.



Did you have the motor running in this car before you turboed it? It was running fine and dandy?

running fine, ~165 compression across



Does/did it burn oil before you turboed it?

didn't really burn oil, only spit it out onto my garage door in the morings when I started it up, so it went from the full mark to half between oil changes, I'm thinking it was the pcv vavle cause when i checked it it was royally fucked.


Did you change the t-belt or have the valve train out?

no.


Did you have the head off at all?

no


What type of oil are you using?

I switched from 10w30 synthetic to 20w50 synthetic while I was intalling the the turbo


Does the car have any noticable external oil leaks?

no


Is it better or worse when warmed up?

same


Does it overheat?

nope


Did you check your valve cover spark plug oil seals?

they are fine.


Are you using a catch can or breather setup?

open breather for now.


Is your pcv container on the back of the block full?

haven't checked it in awhile, Its quite possible that its full.


Did you check it?

lol, no


Is it dry?

I guess i could find out.

I'm gona pull the valve cover and check the cams, I'm guessing that they are either broken or a couple of the lobes are worn.

Daxin
07-22-2004, 08:32 PM
I know of a person that rents out WB and consultation for $25 per hour. let me know.

WGR4Pussies
07-23-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Daxin
I know of a person that rents out WB and consultation for $25 per hour. let me know.

hey, thanks, i'll let you know as soon as I can get this stupid motor to work.

anyway, I pulled the valve cover and took alook inside, everything looks really good, not even any wear marks on the cams, although all my valves look like they need a adjustament, hahahaha.

So now I'm thinking its either the injector wiring, ei: those 2 cylinders arn't gettting any fuel, or something to do with compression when the car warms up, although its the same wether warm or cold.

Does anyone know how to check to make sure the injector plugs/wiring harness is good? I know they run on 12 volts, but if i hook up a multi meter while its running, we'll it show 12 volts, or is the short pulse of the injector gona screw it up?

WGR4Pussies
07-26-2004, 12:37 AM
I tested half of the wiring harness today, and its all good, then i found some wiries i never knew were there, so i gotta check them, I really hope its the wiring.;)

WGR4Pussies
07-29-2004, 11:47 PM
The wiring is good, so I have no fucking idea whats wrong with the engine, I guess its time to pull the engine and swap ina shitty d16. :(

dishrag
07-30-2004, 11:04 AM
Have you checked your intake pipng? Sounds like you could have boosted and popped a hose off or you could just be leaking or have forgotten to connect a vac hose. I dont know about your car, but on some you can put the PCV valve in backwards by accident and it makes the car run weird.

WGR4Pussies
08-03-2004, 09:43 PM
hey, I JUST FUCKING FIXED IT,

ANYONE WANA TAKE A GUESS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS????


well when I went to put my newly painted valve cover back on, I didn't know how to put the wires on, so I checked some old pictures I had from before, and some from the install day, as it turns out somebody reversed the wires for cylinders number one and two. I never noticed this or thought to check(since i never touched them) but it was that simple. lmao. Anyway, car is fast, but i really need to get it on a WB. So if anybody can hook me up. please do.

finboy
08-03-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
hey, I JUST FUCKING FIXED IT,

ANYONE WANA TAKE A GUESS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS????


well when I went to put my newly painted valve cover back on, I didn't know how to put the wires on, so I checked some old pictures I had from before, and some from the install day, as it turns out somebody reversed the wires for cylinders number one and two. I never noticed this or thought to check(since i never touched them) but it was that simple. lmao. Anyway, car is fast, but i really need to get it on a WB. So if anybody can hook me up. please do.

dynomotive man, its CHEAP, has wideband, and will get you maximum power.

http://www.dynomotive.ca/

tsi_neal
08-03-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
hey, I JUST FUCKING FIXED IT,

ANYONE WANA TAKE A GUESS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS????


well when I went to put my newly painted valve cover back on, I didn't know how to put the wires on, so I checked some old pictures I had from before, and some from the install day, as it turns out somebody reversed the wires for cylinders number one and two. I never noticed this or thought to check(since i never touched them) but it was that simple. lmao. Anyway, car is fast, but i really need to get it on a WB. So if anybody can hook me up. please do.


SUCKA, tis always the little things.
glad to hear shes fixed

WGR4Pussies
08-03-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by tsi_neal



SUCKA, tis always the little things.
glad to hear shes fixed

yeah, and shes pretty fast, not as fast as my old setup, but still fucking fast.

whatthe
08-06-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
The wiring is good, so I have no fucking idea whats wrong with the engine, I guess its time to pull the engine and swap ina shitty d16. :(

What's the bolt pattern like between D16Y8 and your ZC? You could at least get rid of the ghetto goodness and go for a nice manifold. :)

http://www.teamswift.net/~kyle/images/d16manifold5.jpg

and then for a properly sized intercooler.

http://www.teamswift.net/~kyle/images/front%20intercooler.jpg

WGR4Pussies
08-06-2004, 03:45 PM
lol, yeah i need a manifold, do you have one for sale? i also need an intercooler cause the one i have requires a bunch of cutting to fit and i dont wana do that. I'll see you guys at race city tonight, just to check it out. :burnout:

whatthe
08-08-2004, 11:11 PM
Manifold is from my friends shop, Turbine Tech. Nothing used available, but if you ever get the funds, you could certainly buy one. The best made and thought-out hand-made stuff I've seen. He's certified welder that he's been doing for 15+ years, and engineer tech gone to wonderful world of automotive performance. One of the few guys I see eye to eye with on most issues. Hence, the reccomendation.

The IC, same thing. The whole set-up actually has very little lag, and on low boost, performs well beyond what I thought it would.

Primer_Drift
09-01-2004, 08:56 PM
What gap did those bosche plugs of yours have? They look like the stock gapping.. which is like asking for problems.

ZorroAMG
09-01-2004, 11:17 PM
^^well considering the guy who started this thread has since been banned, your bumping of a one month old thread is kinda useless huh?

rice_eater
09-02-2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by WGR4Pussies


anyway, looks like I won't be needing a WB after all, I blew my motor I never even boosted more then 1 psi.

haha weren't you saying on another thread ,when someone was making fun of you reving in traffic, that you're boosting at 6lbs and your car is a beast :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Owned 2
09-02-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by rice_eater


haha weren't you saying on another thread ,when someone was making fun of you reving in traffic, that you're boosting at 6lbs and your car is a beast :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

if you bothered to read through this thread you'd notive the problem has since been rectified :thumbsup: