Intercooler modification

[Redlyne_mr2]

I still have my stock intercooler and it just isnt doing the job anymore....what im wondering is if I install some sort of water injection system will I dramtically increase the intercoolers efficiency? If I stick with the stock intercooler for my new turbo setup will I encouter heat soak and actually defeat the purpose of a better turbo even if I have the water injection...any advice would be appreciated

[RickDaTuner]

yeah if you use the mist type nozzles foud on acuras you should lowere the charge temp by a bit this is the type of system that skylines use and evos use it too

i think they sell kits for like 300 hundred bucks you get a tank two nozzles and a high flow pump, i would just go the junk yard and rip a washer reseviour of some car and get the Acura mister nozles though, good luck

[legendboy]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
yeah if you use the mist type nozzles foud on acuras

I'd use Nitrous nozzles if your going to use water injection

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by legendboy


I'd use Nitrous nozzles if your going to use water injection
will water injection give me the cooling I need when added to my intercooler or should I scrap the idea and buy an aftermarket i/c

[jdmakkord]

An aftermarket IC will be far more efficient compared to a stock unit. Let alone the aftermarket intercooler piping being superior as well.

[Davan]

Then you could always water cool the aftermarket intercooler! :thumbsup: :D

[legendboy]

watercooling should solve your heat exchanging problems but an new intercooler is just so BLING http://www.telusplanet.net/public/legend88/Smiles/smilecoin.gif

[turboMiata]

Water injection basically reduces the combuston temperature and pressure in the cylinder for the net effect of reducing detonation.

The intercooler is meant to increase air density. water injection and intercooling are related but not entirely the same thing.

btw, water injection is not meant to reduce heat soak of your intercooler. to reduce intercooler heat soak (assume air to air IC), there's products you can buy that sit in front of the IC that mist it with water.

if you go with water injection like Aquamist, it should be controlled by a sensor that can detect boost.

[ninspeed]

i rember awhile back SCC put water injection on to a focus. They used piping and nozzles from underground irrigation system... something you can find at home depot :D.. they also used a small plastic fuel tank as the water holder. ill see if i can dig up that issue

[turboMiata]

Most people use the windshield washe fluid tank. This is especially useful if your car has a washer fluid level sensor that warns you when it's becoming low.

I know a guy running Aquamist on the track and blew the engine because the fluid ran out and the car started detonating.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by turboMiata
Most people use the windshield washe fluid tank. This is especially useful if your car has a washer fluid level sensor that warns you when it's becoming low.

I know a guy running Aquamist on the track and blew the engine because the fluid ran out and the car started detonating.
thats harsh....I dont want aquamist to draw the line between detonating and not detonating I just want to raise my stock intercoolers efficiency to run my new turbo with higher boost until I decide what final setup Im going to go with.

[Loose]

If you're going to make your own water injections system, make sure you have a good filtration system. I've seen a lot of people who've fabbed their own kits, but the systems never work cause the nozzles are always plugged.

[Hollywood]

Don't cheap out, get an intercooler!! This is mine. That way you will never have to worry about it ever again, well at least untill you hit 450WHP.

http://members.shaw.ca/eurotrash/intershot.jpg

[Redlyne_mr2]

thats sooo rad hollywood...who makes that setup???Most of the aftermarket ic's for my car are ass so Im considering a trunk mounted setup...im just scared about haking up my car to do it....

[Ekliptix]

I'd just go aftermarket myself.

this guy went a little overkill i think:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid21/p303a92dbc3021c7bba5ef79c5978994d/fdb26208.jpg

thread: http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3452

[turboMiata]

dood, if you do go on to water injection, remember one thing:

water freezes at 0deg. i'd recommend 50% methanol mix to keep the lines from freezing up.

BTW, that guy that blew up his car was racing on a very hot day. If the ambient temps are low, your risk of detonation reduces too.

I'd go for a more efficient intercooler. Bigger is not always better. For example, people are putting RS4 intercoolers into S4 and they are disappointed in the results. That's because the bigger RS4 ICs are designed to be most efficient at 60kph or more.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
thats sooo rad hollywood...who makes that setup???Most of the aftermarket ic's for my car are ass so Im considering a trunk mounted setup...im just scared about haking up my car to do it....

HKS Type S imported from Japan. Expensive shit.
http://members.shaw.ca/eurotrash/hkspic.jpg


Originally posted by turboMiata
I'd go for a more efficient intercooler. Bigger is not always better. For example, people are putting RS4 intercoolers into S4 and they are disappointed in the results. That's because the bigger RS4 ICs are designed to be most efficient at 60kph or more.

turboMiata is right somewhat that bigger is not allways better, but in my case the car fricken hauls and I have the biggest IC kit for SR's in the 500HP and under range. Yes I probly have more turbo lag becuase of it but who cares, the stock turbo is still at full boost at 3000ish RPM so....

A larger intercooler usually offers better effectiveness and a lower pressure drop. The downside is that the larger volume that needs to be pressurized can add to the lag of the system. Also note there are 2 types of intercoolers tube & fin, bar & plate. Tube and fin cools better, bar and plate holds pressure better.

[Redlyne_mr2]

will having longer ic piping generate more lag as well?....if you were to go with just a core what would you go with?

[turboMiata]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
will having longer ic piping generate more lag as well

in one word, yes. but by how much it depends on your engine/turbo size, pipe diameter and other mystical factors beyond my understanding.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by turboMiata


in one word, yes. but by how much it depends on your engine/turbo size, pipe diameter and other mystical factors beyond my understanding.
well that sucks:thumbsdow ....turbo miata, hollywodd, would you guys ever cut a huge hole in your trunk to mount an intercooler? Keep in mind this car is not my daily driver and does not see temperatures below 15 degrees (not that that really matters), the trunk mount may be my best option

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

well that sucks:thumbsdow ....turbo miata, hollywodd, would you guys ever cut a huge hole in your trunk to mount an intercooler? Keep in mind this car is not my daily driver and does not see temperatures below 15 degrees (not that that really matters), the trunk mount may be my best option

Personally I do not have any first hand experience with mid engine vehicles, but I can ask Karl, he used to be a porshe guy.

[turboMiata]

I assume this is for an MR2? I'm not too familiar with modding MR2. But as with any car, it's important to have lots of air flowing through the IC. If you start cutting your car up, make sure you have enough airflow through the IC.

I once saw an insane MR2 in Max Power magazine with a *front mount* IC. The nuts cut holes through the cabin and plumbed the IC piping from the engine to the front bumper and back! It was mad!!

Redlyne_mr2, another option is to consider air-water IC.

But like I said before, I'm not all too familiar with MR2s so please don't take my opinions to be gospel.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by turboMiata
I assume this is for an MR2? I'm not too familiar with modding MR2. But as with any car, it's important to have lots of air flowing through the IC. If you start cutting your car up, make sure you have enough airflow through the IC.

I once saw an insane MR2 in Max Power magazine with a *front mount* IC. The nuts cut holes through the cabin and plumbed the IC piping from the engine to the front bumper and back! It was mad!!

Redlyne_mr2, another option is to consider air-water IC.

But like I said before, I'm not all too familiar with MR2s so please don't take my opinions to be gospel.
I appreciate the feedback, thats the phenix power mr2 you saw in max power, 793 rwhp from a 4 cylinder, insane..anyways how exactly do the air to water ics work, ive heard lots about them but dont know how they work
thanks

[turboMiata]

They typically use the engine coolant to cool the charge air. There's a Miata in calgary that's running that with his JR supercharger. Kenny has it on his SLK32 as well (factory). You prolly need to upgrade the cooling sytem for this. I don't know too much about it.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by turboMiata
They typically use the engine coolant to cool the charge air. There's a Miata in calgary that's running that with his JR supercharger. Kenny has it on his SLK32 as well (factory). You prolly need to upgrade the cooling sytem for this. I don't know too much about it.
there are a few "aftermarket" air to water systems available for my car, basicallly bolt on, theres even a system that uses a water reservoir that is cooled by the cars ac system...1600 US is what I can expect to pay for one fo those systems:eek:

[90_Shelby]

Another option I've seen is mount the air to air in the trunk and run ducting from under the car.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

there are a few "aftermarket" air to water systems available for my car, basicallly bolt on, theres even a system that uses a water reservoir that is cooled by the cars ac system...1600 US is what I can expect to pay for one fo those systems:eek:

Redlyne I talked to Karl about your intercooler sugestions. He said that some of the modified porshes used spoilers that had vents or hole type intake in the edges of the spoiler which then sent air to the upgraded intercoolers. He said no one really used a FMIC on a rear engine mounted porshes.

Then I was thinking can't you modify one of those side roof scoops that you can get for the MR2's to send more cold air to the IC?

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Hollywood


Redlyne I talked to Karl about your intercooler sugestions. He said that some of the modified porshes used spoilers that had vents or hole type intake in the edges of the spoiler which then sent air to the upgraded intercoolers. He said no one really used a FMIC on a rear engine mounted porshes.

Then I was thinking can't you modify one of those side roof scoops that you can get for the MR2's to send more cold air to the IC?
Hollywood, thanks for checkinng up on that intercooler question for me, fmic was out of the picture just because of it isnt practical and wouldnt yield any gains. the scoops that you see on mr2s arent really functional , true they do go straight to the engine bay however the car was designed to draw air from underneath then up and out of the engine bay, the scoops would basically be an opposing force in the whole system and cause air turbulence, right now my intercooler is in a perfect spot, right behind the passenger side air vent so it gets all the fresh air it needs, its just the intercooler that sucks, i think i am going to try and go with the trunk mount setup if my test run with juhn and his mr2 clip goes well..thanks for the help man:thumbsup:

[3S-GTE]

YO Ryan,
Sup bud? when ever ur in calgary lemme know so we can start cutting the trunk of my clip, As for the GT30 i'll prolly get it in 2 weeks im no hurry on that cuz i'm sending my car at my friends garage and were gonna open the engine and have it port and polish and some JE piston. So much for my J spec swap:dunno: wat a waste of money. But i hope it will handle this turbo upgrade.

[nookmumracing]

Ryan, I got the HKS intercooler upgrade which made a noticable improvement on my performance. The Greddy intercooler piping is better than HKS because the HKS piping goes across the head which gets soaked pretty fast. Greddy's pipes line up better with our motor. When I was running at the track the first couple runs would be good but after a while I wouldn't hit the boost I had it set at. I'm planning on wrapping my pipes and maybe go trunk mount in the future. Sing's trunk mount works great, a couple more rattles and squeeks(?). His turbo is the HKS GT ball bearing one and spools quick with little to no lag. Someone told me that once the air in the pipes pressurize the turbo will spool normally. Water to air is very effecient too but same thing, it gets soaked fast and you would have to load cold fluids constantly. The thing that was big at SEMA was the NOS injection in the intercooler but who has dough to spray NOS into a intercooler. Mail me if you need a hand with your setup.

Peace

[90_Shelby]

CO2 is cheaper and just as effective. I'm going to build a setup like at SEMA and see how well it works for power and what it does to A/F:D

[turboMiata]

Using NOS to cool down the IC is an old but good trick often seen at Import drags in California. For the street or track, there's always the option of "misters" for Air to Air IC.

Essentially that works on the theory of latent heat of vapourization. Spray little drops of water on the IC. As the water vaporizes, it sucks heat from the fins. Too much mist and the water interferes with the IC airflow.

[Redlyne_mr2]

The trunk mount setup seems to be the way to go with the mr2, intercooler cores are pretty cheap and the madrel bend is even cheaper, the results a great system that will work wonders for those high boost applications. the only challenge will eb cutting an een hole through my firewall in between the engine and the trunk, I think I'm going to try trim my trunk carpet accordingly and keep it in to retan a clean factory like look...btw Shuichi how did Sing cut through his firewall what did he use, is his mandrel bend steel, or aluminum...this may be a preoject for all of us this winter:thumbsup: I may be doing it solo however unless you guys feel like making a trip to Red Deer

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
The trunk mount setup seems to be the way to go with the mr2, intercooler cores are pretty cheap and the madrel bend is even cheaper, the results a great system that will work wonders for those high boost applications. the only challenge will eb cutting an een hole through my firewall in between the engine and the trunk, I think I'm going to try trim my trunk carpet accordingly and keep it in to retan a clean factory like look...btw Shuichi how did Sing cut through his firewall what did he use, is his mandrel bend steel, or aluminum...this may be a preoject for all of us this winter:thumbsup: I may be doing it solo however unless you guys feel like making a trip to Red Deer

Rdlyne you need a core drill bit. It's one of those bits that have a small drill bit in the middle which is longer and a circle cup on the out side with serrated teeth. It willl give you a perfect circle. Then do some minor fileing and install a peice of rubber tubing around your hole so the pipe does not rub (and it looks cleaner), and bingo, bango, bongo...intant clean hole.

[nookmumracing]

Ryan,
I think Mau used a core drill bit like the one Hollywood explained. The pipes are steel I believe. Just get some mandrel bent pipes with the right bends in them, cut them up, and weld them together. Just wrap the pipes with heat wrap and then its done and looks half decent. For winter project I'm waiting for my hood to get done, get some skirts, rear bumper then paint it. How long you going to be back in the winter? Give me a call if your in town as in cowtown.....

Peace

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by nookmumracing
Ryan,
I think Mau used a core drill bit like the one Hollywood explained. The pipes are steel I believe. Just get some mandrel bent pipes with the right bends in them, cut them up, and weld them together. Just wrap the pipes with heat wrap and then its done and looks half decent. For winter project I'm waiting for my hood to get done, get some skirts, rear bumper then paint it. How long you going to be back in the winter? Give me a call if your in town as in cowtown.....

Peace
Thie core drill sounds like a fairly easy process...Shuichi Ill be back for 6 months in the beginning of December so Ill be undergoing some serious project work then....take it easy man..BTW let me know if you ever know of anyone selling parts, Im alwasy looking for new ideas

[nookmumracing]

:thumbsup: