wtb... rx-7!!! *moved* [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Chris Ng

08-15-2004, 11:27 PM

To Give you an idea of how fast your run was,
Bol's stock STi ran this a couple fridays ago:

r/t .688
60' 1.97
330 5.758
1/8 8.905
mph 77.92
1000 11.602
1/4 [email protected]

Your runs are very very similar to each other.. your 60' time is amazing, I have never been able to do better than 2.3 with my radials.. your trap speeds are consistant with a car making just shy of about 230ish rwhp .. very impressive, as mentioned before, impressive that the stock turbo puts down that much.. what kind of boost are you running? have you installed a boost gauge yet?

I was out of town for a little bit, and so I havn't had a chance to get back to the track with the new turbo after getting a chance to tune the maps a little better... But perhaps this friday will be a good chance to see what can happen..

If I sounded a little skeptical at your times, I was.. Stock turbo 2's are hard pressed to see mid 15's in calgary.. much less break into the 14's.. however with a 1.97 60' time, it's much more beliveable and very impressive.. the 98.6mph trap speed is also impressive for a stock t2.... with any luck, I'll get a chance to line up with you one of these days..

Maxt

08-16-2004, 07:21 AM

If its a j-spec car, good chance its running with a chipped ecu, the boost could be as high as 21 psi, probably tuned for 100 octane fuel, which means it might not be running those times for long, it'll have alot more timing in it than it can handle on 91 octane, if it doesn't have a boost guage, get one, and then get a tunable ecu into it, god only knows what its running for injectors/duty cycles, fuel pump etc etc...
Chris, I got the new hyper rev rx-7 magazine this weekend , there is an FC in there making 400 rwhp on a hybrid, with a large FMIC, but its also running 2 bar of boost, on a good motor, it can be done I guess, but its on the edge tuning, and I wouldn't do it, with our fuel supply, its to inconsistent... Maxt

ricosuave

08-16-2004, 07:30 AM

http://www.casemp.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6008

Go4Long

08-16-2004, 06:56 PM

I am peaking around 13 psi, the PFC Fcon is on there...but the GCC isn't...so it is just running the maps pre-programmed into the Fcon...

I ran 18psi in the rear tires...I think it still has a little more in it at this boost level...those numbers are with the sub box and spare still in the back...I think I might be able to make a 13.7

the 100 octane story is a common mistake people make when talking about japanese gas, yes their premium is 100 octane, but it's measured on a different scale than our gas...and they use a lot of strange additives...on my recent trip to vancouver and back I tried running the range of octanes each time I filled up, 92 seemed to run the best

Maxt

08-16-2004, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Go4Long
I am peaking around 13 psi, the PFC Fcon is on there...but the GCC isn't...so it is just running the maps pre-programmed into the Fcon...

I ran 18psi in the rear tires...I think it still has a little more in it at this boost level...those numbers are with the sub box and spare still in the back...I think I might be able to make a 13.7

the 100 octane story is a common mistake people make when talking about japanese gas, yes their premium is 100 octane, but it's measured on a different scale than our gas...and they use a lot of strange additives...on my recent trip to vancouver and back I tried running the range of octanes each time I filled up, 92 seemed to run the best
Have you ever pumped gas into a car in Japan?... I have, on the pump in big black letters at the shell station 100(m+r)/2...our is at best is mohawk 94(m+r)/2... 6 points in octane is quite abit of missing safety margin when it comes to tuning..Some of the j-spec timing maps I have , are running 22 deg at 15 psi, which is about 7 deg north of where you want to be on good 92 oct...Knightsport sells the 320 hybrid kit with turbo and ecu, it makes that kind of power running 21 psi boost, try that on 92 oct...Maxt

speedymd

08-16-2004, 08:40 PM

my brother has one for sale 86 non turbo 5 spd. white
body's in pretty good shape has a little rust . he had engine rebuild at rx7 specalist shop. it has 195,000km on it.
let me know if you want more info i think he wants around 3600 for it?

Go4Long

08-17-2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Maxt

Have you ever pumped gas into a car in Japan?... I have, on the pump in big black letters at the shell station 100(m+r)/2...our is at best is mohawk 94(m+r)/2... 6 points in octane is quite abit of missing safety margin when it comes to tuning..Some of the j-spec timing maps I have , are running 22 deg at 15 psi, which is about 7 deg north of where you want to be on good 92 oct...Knightsport sells the 320 hybrid kit with turbo and ecu, it makes that kind of power running 21 psi boost, try that on 92 oct...Maxt

ugh...you're not listening...I never said that their premium is not 100 octane...I said that they measure their octane including an assload of additives in the gas...some of them good, some of them for emissions purposes...which ends up skewing their scale a little bit...maybe not by a full 6 points...but still a bit...

how's your car running max?

Akagi Redsuns

08-17-2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Go4Long

ugh...you're not listening...I never said that their premium is not 100 octane...I said that they measure their octane including an assload of additives in the gas.....snip

MON (Motor Octane Number) is one way to measure octane, RON (Research Octane Number) is another. There is no other scales that are used or a JDM scale of octane. It's either RON or MON. At the pumps in North America it's the average between the 2, hence Max mentioning (RON+MON)/2 .... maybe you missed it? If you look at the pumps here you see that as well.

Don't know about Japan, but in Europe, the pumps tend to display octane in RON.

Go4Long

08-17-2004, 01:01 PM

ah well...whatever it may be doesn't matter I guess...this whole conversation came about because max assumed the only way I could get the time I got is by running a huge boost number...as far as I am aware 13psi isn't huge, I do plan on putting it on the dyno and making sure it is running a proper A/F as soon as I get a chance...it seems to me to be running far to rich(shooting flames and the like)

Maxt

08-17-2004, 04:12 PM

Actually I was assuming it was either huge boost, or a very agressive timing map, I am leaning toward the agressive timing map.. If you can pull your maps up, I would see where the timing is before you go much further...
Only one car I have seen throw flames consistently, it was Soloracers TII that was running 21 lbs at about 9:1 a/f's with god only knows where the timing was, the only reason it proably didnt blow was that the compression is so bad on the motor..
My car is waiting for me to finish the fuel system on it, motor is sitting on the engine stand, I need about 4 days off just to concentrate on it, which is most likely not gonna happen for awhile..Maxt

Go4Long

08-17-2004, 05:35 PM

it was shooting flames...then I hooked up the Fcon and that stopped...it was doing all kinds of craziness before I hooked up the Fcon, now it runs pretty good(as the track time is evidence)...I am assuming that time is pretty quick for a stock turbo stock block FC at this altitude, am I right?

BBMac

08-17-2004, 09:39 PM

sorry to whore your post man, but I have to say that I smell a blown motor in the future.

Go4Long

08-18-2004, 09:14 AM

we will see...running really well at the moment...totally smooth...

SHO

08-18-2004, 12:11 PM

Mine ran totally smooth with the rear apex seals down 2 outta 3. However I attribute that to the fact that they were cracked however normal idle was bumped up and yes LARGE flames were issuing from my exhaust.

Go4Long

08-18-2004, 05:40 PM

my cars idle just barely registers on the tach...it's like 500 rpm, just barely...

RXsevenmonk

08-18-2004, 08:00 PM

hoiw mcuh is your car?

liquidqt

08-18-2004, 08:11 PM

i have an 88 rx-7 non turbo that i've been thinking about selling. has rebuild at rx-7 specialty with the tran replaced, clutch in about a year and a half ago, and all new brakes and a caliper(1) replaced jsut in May 2004. it has downpipe, intake, exhaust, and shoots flames as well. i'll sell for 4500. oh yeah, and its red and 5spd

Maxt

08-19-2004, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Go4Long
it was shooting flames...then I hooked up the Fcon and that stopped...it was doing all kinds of craziness before I hooked up the Fcon, now it runs pretty good(as the track time is evidence)...I am assuming that time is pretty quick for a stock turbo stock block FC at this altitude, am I right?
Octane is Octane, no matter what additives are used...
Yes, it is quick, a safely tuned FC at this altitude is at best a high 14 second car, thats why everyone is telling you to double check everything before you blow another motor. One ping and its all over but the crying..... Did you ever figure out what happened to your first motor?
Alot of standard cars can run and trade maps, and they will work fine, with the rotary there is so much possible differences between motors that one map from one car will not work on another. For instance, if I tune my car with an engine that has 115 psi compression, and then install a motor with 60 psi compression at, at idle the 60 psi motor will require twice the fuel to operate, and need alot more timing, likewise if you had a conservative tune on for a 115 psi motor, and then you installed a 60 psi motor, you could probably thrash the shit out of with high booost and it will never blow, simply because it will never make enough chamber pressure or heat to near the detonation point of the mixture. But a 115 psi motor will need more fuel and less timing than a 60 psi motor on boost, the two different engines plotted on a graph would form an X, you can run a 60 psi motor on a 115 psi tune, but if you run a 115 psi motor on a 60 psi, map, it will blow.. Alot of people with sick motors, think they actually have a tough built motor, that takes alot of boost, quite the contrary actually, most of the boost is just turning into blowby and going out the oilpan vent...
I don't know the specifics of your car, if its a s5 and now you are running a s4 motor, you are probably in a zone where you have a higher compression map running a lower compression motor, its a safer zone...On the other hand, you might have had a map for a good s5 tuned to the edge with high octane fuel, put that map on a low psi s5 block and it might last at 92 octane and it will turn good numbers till the motor simply wears out..
Tuning a rotary is tough thing, there is no room for error, the only time you get some slack is when the motor is half blown to begin with, or never had great compression to start with.. Your first motor was probably a very healthy motor to begin with, a good core to start again from for sure.. When you start pushing high hp levels, the room for error gets even less, one little quirk and poof its all gone..Max

ApexDrift

08-19-2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Maxt

Did you ever figure out what happened to your first motor?

he burned right through the apex seals!

SAiamNE

08-19-2004, 10:44 AM

Would that mean he was most lickly running to lean causing to much heat?

Maxt

08-19-2004, 12:39 PM

More likely it detonated and the broke into pieces, the apex seals will warp and chip before they burn through...Post a picture of them if you can..maxt

Go4Long

08-19-2004, 02:48 PM

are we talking about my first motor? if so I launched an apex seal into the turbo manifold from the rear rotor and blew the water jacket dealy on the front rotor apparently(although we aren't sure that that wasn't blown when it got here...basically everyone is surprised that it even ran)...that thing was running a whole lot of boost(I think the vac line to the wastegate was plugged)...I never even got to find out how much boost it was running...but I think it would be safe to say it was a lot more than I am running now...it gently pushes you back in your seat through third right now...before it was a fight against inertia to reach the shift knob right up til fouth...it was really fast...
but yes...now I am running a S4/S5 bastard child of a motor...S4 block, S5 ecu and everything else...it was compression tested when it went in and put down some good numbers.

Maxt

08-19-2004, 04:11 PM

Yeah, you dropped a .5 point in compression, so your combo is probably alot safer than it was before. Still sounds like a pretty aggressive tune though, see where your maps are.. Hold onto your s5 block, the irons are alot stronger than the s4 ones, and decent ones are getting hard to come by..A nice setup is s5 irons with s4 rotors in s5 housings with a lightwieght flywheel and s4 counterwieght, with FD bearings in s5 gears, thats probably the ulitmate combination short of running an S6(FD) in a FC chassis.Max

Go4Long

08-19-2004, 04:54 PM

that seems like it would be a tough swap with finding room for the twins and all that jazz...

Akagi Redsuns

08-19-2004, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Go4Long
that seems like it would be a tough swap with finding room for the twins and all that jazz...

Waste of time doing the swap and then to keep the stock twins and thier huge array of vacuum lines that rarely seem to work as advertised by Mazda. Also I believe that the engine bay from a S6 is smaller than a S5/S4.

Maxt

08-19-2004, 07:36 PM

I would never run with any of the stock turbos, manifolds etc etc, big single is the only way to fly, but motor wise, the FD is built like a brick shit house compared to the earlier 13b's, almost all the shit racing beat sells as upgrades for the earlier motors is oem standard in the FD block... The one thing about the FD with its junk though, is if you were up against emissions laws, you could swap in the FD engine with turbo's running no sequential, and probably get the OK from the smog cops.. Some of the guys in Japan that wanted to stay legitimatly smog legal, were running upgraded twins on fd motors, with all the FD electronics, in FC's, they would start with a type RZ 280 hp model motor and go from there. Guys that were running illegitimatly smog legal, were shops that dropped in T51's and T88's and then did their own smog sniffer checks and inspections ;) ...Maxt

rx7_turbo2

08-19-2004, 10:27 PM

Sorry I've been out of town, time for my two cents.

I can't see a car running a stock turbo pull those types of times here in town. This is not the first time I've said this so it should come as no suprise.

I will believe it when I see it with my own eyes. So far I've seen no real time slip and nobody else who saw it has chimed in. I'll probably be at Race City this friday if you want to make me eat crow.

Go4Long

08-20-2004, 05:05 PM

work this week, and next week as well...there are plenty of people that saw it...check with cocobravo...I ran against a white SR20DET powered 240, he ran a 14.008 to my 13.940(he beat me there cus I was asleep at the lights(he beat me there by 0.0728 seconds)...
I honestly don't care if you believe me or not...I have nothing to prove to you. I have the time slip, I know I ran it, people whose opinions I care about saw me run it. Are you somehow upset that I beat chris's best time with a T04 hybrid on my stock turbo?

SuggarDaddy

08-20-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
"So far I've seen no real time slip and nobody else who saw it has chimed in."

actually i was there that night i can vouch that his numbers are legit.... no more haters they are real numbers

rx7_turbo2

08-20-2004, 06:09 PM

Listen, I said my opinion should come as no suprise. I've challenged people about their times before. It's not a personal attack, I don't know you I've only met you once, I have nothing to gain by attacking you. It's not my intent to make enemies. Here's how it looks from my position.

Chris' car I've seen with my own eyes. I've seen it run at the track numerous times as well as multiple dyno pulls. Chris has also posted the time slips and dyno graphs. Chris' times at the track matched the horsepower his car put out on the dyno the equation made sense. I've helped work on his car and delt with it first hand, I know all about it.

I don't have the first clue about your car. Not a lick. I've never seen it. You have not posted the time slip, and to my knowledge you've not dyno'd it. The time your claiming doesnt seem to jive with the info in my head. Whether it be a 1/4 time for a stock turbo, or the horsepower required to run the time you posted. At least not at our altitude.

I have no grudge against you just because you claim you ran a faster time than Chris. I don't care:D I hope you did, and continue to do so in the future. But for me to believe it I need to see it myself, don't take it personally, it's just the way I deal with claims on the internet. The same goes for people who "witnessed" your run. Unless it's someone I know and trust it doesnt matter, they can claim whatever they like I'll still be sceptical.

No haters here, I'd love to see your car run, throw me a PM when you decide to take it to the track, I'll be the first one to shake your hand if you pull off a similar time.:D

Chris Ng

08-20-2004, 06:19 PM

Steve.. Nobody is jealous or upset here.. the point is, drawing from our experience with these cars, it is tough to not be sceptical at the claimed run you made.. Let's put this into perspective...

I've dynoed my car with the hybrid turbo several times on Toma's mustang dyno.. I've posted these sheets up on several boards to prove their validity.. I was seeing between 260-275rwhp depending on the time I dynoed..

I have driven, and cruised with several diffrent FC's and FD, all in diffrent states of tune. .some with healthy motors, some without, I know how car's power compared to these other vehicles..

We have seen actual timeslips of other stock turboed FC's out on the track.. in general, with average 60' times (2.2-2.4 on these cars) you are looking at low 15's high 14's and trap speeds in the low 90's..

These cars completely stock were about 3100lbs (with driver) and made 180 flywheel horsepower @ 5 psi boost ..

There are alot of dynos that can been viewed and confirmed of FC's running stock turbos at 13psi boost on the net.. they average in around the 220 rwhp range.. It is well documented and verifiable that these turbos will run out of steam by 5500rpm and start to drop boost pretty quickly after 5500rpm when taken past 10psi..

My best time at race city with the old hybrid was a 14.3@98mph.. that was with a 2.35 60' time... high 13's could have been posisble with better 60' times.. my trap speed was lower than expected from what my dyno sheets say it should be capable of, however as mentioned, these turbos lose alot of boost in the higher rpms.. power drops significantly after 5500rpm..

Your trap speed of 98mph calculates to roughly a 230rwhp car making it's power throughout the whole run.. with the way the turbo runs out of steam as explained above, it's hard to imagine that car running those trap speeds

the time of 13.9 with a 1.98 60' is more beliveable.. if you actually could obtain a 1.98 60' on street tires.. rear wheel drive car, hard suspension, IRS, all make the FC pretty tough to launch well.. any sub 2 second 60' times I have seen posted have been with the use of slicks...

If you combine all those facts, and others which I won't bore you with (I've already gone on long enough here), You'll understand why some of use are skeptical about the run you made.. we have never seen it done before, and that's the problem.. Once we do get a chance to see you run out at the track again and post those kind of times, you will have taught us something new that we didn't know.. I guess it's something we have to see with our own eyes.. and somethign you can rub into our faces the day that it does happen...

SuggarDaddy

08-20-2004, 06:32 PM

hey i'm on an actual drag racing team with an altered funny car and a jr.dragster and we're at the track alot!!!! i'm not bullshitting when i say i've witnessed times. i belive the fastest i've witnessed in personne was a 5.94 but i do know what i'm talking about and wouldn't lie about someone i have no clue who they are, this guy's numbers are completley legit.

Go4Long

08-20-2004, 07:18 PM

well...hopefully I will make it out there in a couple weeks again...I will post the time slip once my roommate is actually home long enough to get him to take a pic of it(I don't personally have a digi cam)...
as previousely mentioned I was running the tires at 18psi, the tires are a Yokohama DNA GP(not sold here so I got no clue what the hell they are...but they're hella soft I can tell you that), the suspension is a full tein coil over set up...
Hopefully I will get to take it out to the track again some time soon without my sub box in it...maybe make an even better time...

rx7_turbo2

08-20-2004, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by SuggarDaddy
hey i'm on an actual drag racing team with an altered funny car and a jr.dragster and we're at the track alot!!!! i'm not bullshitting when i say i've witnessed times. i belive the fastest i've witnessed in personne was a 5.94 but i do know what i'm talking about and wouldn't lie about someone i have no clue who they are, this guy's numbers are completley legit.

Once again no offence but I don't know who you are. Thus your ability to vouch for the time means very little. You could be an intergalactic space traveler for all the difference it would make. Just the way I deal with people on the internet. I hope to see the car run the 1/4 mile one day so we can put this all to rest. Right now it's like adding 2+2 and getting 6 as an answer, things just don't add up right. I'm not calling everyone liars, perhaps a timing anomily (not the first one at Race City) I don't know. I'd love to be proved wrong on this one. Fast FC's are all I'm really interested in anyways. No need to make enemies here:D

Go4Long

08-21-2004, 08:36 AM

I doubt it was a timing anommaly...runs were as follows:
[email protected](10:30pm, 20 psi in tires big time bog off the launch)
[email protected](10:51pm, same pressure, pretty good launch 2.086 60')
[email protected](11:32pm, 18psi in tires, good launch...apparently I was shifting slow...I dunno though...seemed really good, just think there is another tenth in there if I take the sub box and spare tire out)
[email protected](11:53pm was way to anxious, it was against the supercharged 350Z, bogged way down, don't know how I trapped that high)
[email protected](12:08am, missed third, to bad, it seemed like a good run off the start)

now my roommate is home, but asleep(working nights pwns me)...oh well...like I said before...I don't have anything to prove to any of you people, if I don't make it to the track again for the rest of the year, it really doesn't matter that much to me. I met a girl in lethbridge. I would much rather spend the two hours on a friday night driving to see her than sitting in a tech line to try to prove a point to a bunch of people whose opinions don't really matter that much to me anyway...

Graham(I believe that's your name, sorry if I spelt it wrong) if you really want to see the time slip that badly, I will be happy to show it to you...I work down near chinook at 8:00pm tonight(and tomorrow night for that matter), if you can make it down near there at 7:30ish, let me know on here...I will swing by in the car...otherwise...I will eventually get it posted on here

If you doubt it that's fine. Just remember, some things are true wether you believe them or not.

rx7_turbo2

08-21-2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Go4Long

Graham(I believe that's your name, sorry if I spelt it wrong) if you really want to see the time slip that badly, I will be happy to show it to you...I work down near chinook at 8:00pm tonight(and tomorrow night for that matter), if you can make it down near there at 7:30ish, let me know on here...I will swing by in the car...otherwise...I will eventually get it posted on here

If you doubt it that's fine. Just remember, some things are true wether you believe them or not.

Yup, spelt it right as well :D

I don't blame ya, I'm not at the track every day, I've got better things to do as well. Ah I really don't care all that much about the slip, I don't think you would just post up some random numbers. Like I said the equation just doesnt work for me. I would love to see your car on the dyno, it would shed a TON of light on what's going on. As would a look at the timing maps.

Once again your right you have nothing to prove. It's your car you can do whatever you like to it. My curiosity about the times claimed is just that curiosity. If you've managed a way to put out that type of power and rip off those times on a stock turbo you've done something that has previously eluded 99% of FC owners. I Always rip on guys like RETed on rx7club cause he's stuck in the past and refuses to progress his ways of thinking. I don't ever want to be accused of that. You must be doing something different in order to pull off those times. I would like to know what that's all. Perhaps you don't want to share, maybe you don't know what's different, It doesnt really matter. There is a reason why it's running those times, it's not just a freak occurance.

Listen I'm not as arogant as to think that if I don't believe something that it can't be true. That's just silly. But everything happens for a reason. Your running those times because of the components in your car. The turbo is a constant, it's the stock turbo. So why is your car running so much faster than others with the exact same turbo? There has to be a reason, I'd like to find out what that reason is, perhaps we could all learn something from what we find.

Go4Long

08-21-2004, 04:42 PM

lol...well...I can honestly admit that I have absolutely no clue...as previousely mentioned when it showed up it was very very fast...still not 100% sure why...it is actually considerably slower now than it was before...but that's alright...
when I had the car at RX7 specialties we took the ECU out to satisfy some curiosity, it hasn't been tampered with, so unless there is a way to actually go into the chip without taking it off...that is stock...
Complete list of everything on the car that is aftermarket(other than the stereo) that we can find is:

Racing Beat Turbo Back
Knight Sports FBCD
HKS PFC Fcon
Tein Coil Overs
16" wheels(can't figure out what kind...looks like they say manaray sport)
Yokohama DNA Gp tires(225/45/16's in the rear if that makes a difference)

that's it...dunno man

Akagi Redsuns

08-24-2004, 09:32 AM

Would different gearing be a possibilty? I know that the differential from the GTUs were a popular swap thanks to thier higher final drive ratio. Are the Japanese RX-7 transmission gear ratios or final drive ratio the same as the American versions? That would affect times and trap speed wouldn't it? Just a thought........(even though it may be completly wrong:))

Loose

08-24-2004, 10:42 AM

I don't see what's so unbelievable guys....

I ran 14.6@95 my first time at the track with just the RB exhaust (Edmonton). I'm sure with more than 3 runs, I could have done better. It was about 29 degrees C that day too. Another guy in the RX club ran 14.2@99mph with the exhaust and an intake, on 17" wheels, on another hot day. Now this is in Edmonton, and Calgary is typically about 3/10 slower, but still, his times are possible.

Just because YOU couldn't do it doesn't mean that somebody else couldn't. It's not like he's saying he did a 12 for god's sake, it's a high 13

:dunno:

ApexDrift

08-24-2004, 10:59 AM

what ever steve, just bring your car to the dyno and shead some light on this whole thing, dont you have to tune your F-con anyways!?

btw does anyone know who has a FCD for a S4

rx7_turbo2

08-24-2004, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Loose
I don't see what's so unbelievable guys....

I ran 14.6@95 my first time at the track with just the RB exhaust (Edmonton). I'm sure with more than 3 runs, I could have done better. It was about 29 degrees C that day too. Another guy in the RX club ran 14.2@99mph with the exhaust and an intake, on 17" wheels, on another hot day. Now this is in Edmonton, and Calgary is typically about 3/10 slower, but still, his times are possible.

Just because YOU couldn't do it doesn't mean that somebody else couldn't. It's not like he's saying he did a 12 for god's sake, it's a high 13

:dunno:

If I can't do it, it must be impossible:D I'm so dam jelious I just can't get over it:rolleyes:

You missed what we've been saying entirely Chris.

Add the 3/10 to the time's you just posted and what do you get? Uh it's not a 13sec pass that's for sure. Listen I'm not saying Go4Long's time is impossible, I'm saying it's highly unlikey and I won't believe it till I see it with my own eye's. And when and if I do see it I'd like to find out why it's running that way, just for curiosity's sake.

Now Chris if you came in here and said you ran a 13.9 in Edmonton it would be easier to believe because of the track differences. But that's not the case.

Once again your times are Edmonton, as you mentioned it's different down here. I'll also point out that this past weeks secret street was a shit show, the timing was all over the map and they ended up closing down the 1/4 and just handing out 1/8 mile time slips.

I guess I have to say it again to make this REAL clear. I hope the guy can pull off a sub 13sec pass on his stock turbo. I don't think it's possible and won't believe it till I see it with my own eye's, but that does NOT mean I don't want to see it. You people getting it yet? Yikes:dunno:

Loose

08-24-2004, 11:26 AM

sorry i was dropped on my head as a child, hense my ugliness.

:banghead:

calgarys13

08-24-2004, 12:47 PM

In japan all the cars are geareed lower because they don't have very many open highways so theres no need to go fast..his car is geared lower and ill grab a pic of his timeslip later in the day

rx7_turbo2

08-24-2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Loose
sorry i was dropped on my head as a child, hense my ugliness.

:banghead:

Well you are an ugly son of a bitch there's no doubt about that, but I guess I'm not one to talk, given my current avatar:D

Akagi Redsuns

08-24-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by calgarys13
In japan all the cars are geareed lower because they don't have very many open highways so theres no need to go fast..his car is geared lower and ill grab a pic of his timeslip later in the day

You sure you got that terminalogy correct? I always understood it to be the opposite. Simple Terms, geared higher means better acceleration low top speed, Geared lower means slower acceleration high top speed (in theory, but at least lower RPMs at higher speed).

Loose

08-24-2004, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

Well you are an ugly son of a bitch there's no doubt about that, but I guess I'm not one to talk, given my current avatar:D

Heh, at least my ugliness is from an accident, where as yours is genetic.

:rofl:

Maxt

08-24-2004, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by calgarys13
In japan all the cars are geareed lower because they don't have very many open highways so theres no need to go fast..his car is geared lower and ill grab a pic of his timeslip later in the day

Now thats a total load...99.9% of the roads in Japan are open highspeed elevated highways, very rarely do you actually have to stop for a red light there, not even in Tokyo, its off ramp heaven.. and the FC's use the same ratio here, as there.. They don't need to go fast? Why build supra's skylines rx-7's etc etc, if you don't need to go fast, after 30 minutes of being on Japanese soil, I knew the very reason, the Japanese had become prolific in building sports cars , and good at it, perfect pavment, with straightaways leading to banked hairpins and s curves, who are you trying to kid, its fucking sports car heaven there...

Loose, if people are doing 14.2's in Edmonton, its gonna be a 14.5's-.7's here....
Couple of things that could add to it, they have been apparently VHT'ing the shit out of the track for some of the bigger draw events, and there has been some timing problems as of late as well, in any case, lots of time left to run that car again...Maxt

Go4Long

08-25-2004, 02:33 AM

lol...I can't believe people are still doubting this...the GTP I ran against my first ran of the night ran a 16.129, which is pretty much bang on...and he was way back there in my mirror...the supercharged 350Z was running low 14's right where he always runs...there's gotta be another reason in here somewhere...come on now...
for someone that has supposedly driven japanese cars in japan, you failed to mention that all cars in japan are factory limited to 180km/h, and they all have an audible warning at anything over 105km/h...yes, there are sports cars there that can go very fast, but it is no more so than here where anyone with money can buy a 500hp car off a showroom floor.

Loose

08-25-2004, 08:54 AM

i still think it's possible and i'm the best so there.

rx7_turbo2

08-25-2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Go4Long
for someone that has supposedly driven japanese cars in japan, you failed to mention that all cars in japan are factory limited to 180km/h, and they all have an audible warning at anything over 105km/h

Ya I'm sure there's no way to disable that crap:rolleyes: Have you been to Japan? You talk as if you have. Unless you've been there you might find yourself in a tough spot considering Max has first hand experience and your just repeating what you've heard second hand.

I don't think anyone here is insulting you, I know it has not been my intent, but you seem to be "pushing people's buttons" just to get a rise out of them. Fair enough. The senario is simple. I don't believe the time is possible in Calgary. I won't believe it till I see it with my own eyes. You've got nothing to prove to us so it doesnt really matter if you want to run again. However if you want to make me eat crow feel more than free to do so, just let me know when you plan to either run the 1/4 again or put the car on the dyno.

Oh and Loose, no I'm the best:poosie:

Go4Long

08-25-2004, 02:41 PM

I would never say that it's impossible to disable such things(my car has both disabled), and I'm not saying that there aren't cool roads in japan(because I'm sure there are)...I am simply saying that using the excuse that they must drive fast because they build fast cars and have cool roads is silly.
And anyone that thinks that there aren't cool roads around here hasn't driven the highways through the mountains, on the way back from vancouver we found the highway that goes past mara lake, the entire thing is backed by a lake on one side, and no shoulder, just a cliff wall on the other, it winds around this lake going up and down the whole way around it, possibly one of the coolest drives I have ever seen.
I enjoy pushing buttons, for sure...but I'm still not doing it just to bash people...I have left max's 400HP signature alone even though from what I have heard, saying that it is a 400hp car isn't exactly accurate...not entirely unlike someone else in calgary claiming 630 hp out of their rotary(no names mentioned as we both know who I am talking about).

Gixxer600

08-25-2004, 03:16 PM

hahahah, shit....this dude wants to buy an rx7 and this is what it turns into.....stay on topic or start a new thread guys!!:rofl:

rx7_turbo2

08-25-2004, 05:30 PM

Did I wrong you in a previous life? Everybody here has been more than respectfull towards you. However every post you make you see fit to take pot shots at people. Fair Enough.

Now have you been to Japan? If not I'm inclined to take Max's assesment of the car "culture" over there seeing as how he's actualy been there, and delt with the top rotary builders and tuners of the country.

I'm sure Max will address your pot shot towards his HP claim. What do you think a partial bridged T04E powered motor would make for power?

You decided to open a couple cans of worms in your last post. I'm not sure why, there was no need for it. Once again I'm not trying to make enemies here, but your making it kind of difficult. Why such a grudge?

Go4Long

08-25-2004, 05:34 PM

I think you would be a little defensive if you came on here and said your quarter mile time and people who other people might rely on for info came out and said that it wasn't possible...

Maxt

08-25-2004, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Go4Long
lol...I can't believe people are still doubting this...the GTP I ran against my first ran of the night ran a 16.129, which is pretty much bang on...and he was way back there in my mirror...the supercharged 350Z was running low 14's right where he always runs...there's gotta be another reason in here somewhere...come on now...
for someone that has supposedly driven japanese cars in japan, you failed to mention that all cars in japan are factory limited to 180km/h, and they all have an audible warning at anything over 105km/h...yes, there are sports cars there that can go very fast, but it is no more so than here where anyone with money can buy a 500hp car off a showroom floor.

Why would I mention that? I had no reason to, 180 km/h is plenty fast, and pretty much the first mod anyone does is disable the speed limiter, and the chime, even my Girlfriends father who drives a mitsu suv, had a SCD... Still your pal is wrong about the gearing in your car, and nothing you can say will ever change that fact.
S13 said they can't drive very fast there, as an excuse for his gearing comment, that was the silly comment, you have no idea how they drive there, its like they only know one position of the gas pedal, either fully on or full off, the roads are built better than our road racing courses, you can't possible understand it unless you go there yourself, the cars they create, are reflections of their enviroment..
As for my car, you are right its not entirely accurate, as I did that number with a sickly motor at low boost, with a real motor, it was somewhere north of that number, now with a T51 in the car, I am sure that number again will not be accurate again, and would be more than willing to run the quarter with you should you feel my hp ratings are in error..maxt

rx7_turbo2

08-25-2004, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Go4Long
I think you would be a little defensive if you came on here and said your quarter mile time and people who other people might rely on for info came out and said that it wasn't possible...

Cool. I never called you a liar, I am not calling you a liar. I'm saying in my experience (granted it's VERY limited) the time you posted doesnt make sense. At least not given the parameters (stock turbo). I am MORE than open to the possibility of you running that time, but I need to see it in person that's all. I also mentioned I would like to see the car. I've never seen a rhd FC in person and would like to.

I appologize if my comments put you into defensive mode and made you feel you needed to fight back. It was not my intent whatsoever.

Go4Long

08-25-2004, 06:11 PM

I am not sure if I will be able to duplicate it...I appear to have a boost leak of some kind that I can't track down...not sure what is going on there...hopefully I will make it out next week(weather permitting)

Akagi Redsuns

08-25-2004, 10:05 PM

:drama:

LOL, this will never end.

I love claims that no one can back up. The internet....I LOVE IT!

Go4Long

08-26-2004, 10:09 AM

I have offered to show him the time slip actually...but thanks for comin out chief

Loose

08-29-2004, 04:36 PM

Hey guys, draggin this thread up.

I got word that my old T2 got a big tune up and put down 240rwhp on a dynojet.

They said that it beats wookey's T2, which did 101mph in the 1/4.

Stock motor, turbo, fuel. Sounds impressive, should do 13's, but also sounds like it's on the egde, big time.

weitzel

08-31-2004, 01:20 AM

my buddies selling his rx7. i was gonna buy it but changed my mind, i plan on stickin with hondas for now
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/490903

it has almost new everything. REALLY good condition
and i think he's sellin it for $7000
just thought id let you know

:drool:

Akagi Redsuns

08-31-2004, 01:25 AM

A non-turbo S4 RX-7 for $7K? Good luck!

AutodreamMarvin

08-31-2004, 08:45 AM

I'll post the time slip of Go4Longs 13 sec run. The white 240 that he ran against is one of my customers and he even verified with me on the validity of his 13 sec run. If you guys want proof, just post here and I will upload the time slip.

Seanith

08-31-2004, 11:28 AM

just do it.

Maxt

08-31-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Loose
Hey guys, draggin this thread up.

I got word that my old T2 got a big tune up and put down 240rwhp on a dynojet.

They said that it beats wookey's T2, which did 101mph in the 1/4.

Stock motor, turbo, fuel. Sounds impressive, should do 13's, but also sounds like it's on the egde, big time.
So what does this say about ChrisNg's car then, running with a hybrid and barely making more...
It says this I guess in no particular order...
The dynojet is fucked
Tomas Dyno is fucked, which I kinda doubt
The timing at the track is inconsistent
The motor in Chris's car is shit...
Loose, if your car is still running 4x550's, that dyno number is wrong period...4x550's will you get maybe 220 at the flywheel on the 550's with the stock ecu in place, but it would be some major duty cycle and fuel pressure increase to do those numbers with 550's and have the motor live to tell about it..Remeber that fuel system was designed for 184 or so flywheel hp
I could care less really , but whats been posted in this thread goes against, pretty much all the proven history of these cars compiled since they were new.. JDM doesn't matter either, even the GT-x(s5) was listed at 15.02 at sea level in Japan and a second is worth a 100hp.. The numbers just don't jive, you would have to prolly test all the cars on the same dyno at the same conditions to really compare, a bag of ice on a top mount can work wonders for the numbers..Maxt

cocoabrova

08-31-2004, 07:15 PM

Wow, since this thread went WAY off topic, it's been moved.....

P.S. I witnessed Go4Long's runs that night @ SS. BTW Steve, good job on your sub-14 ET and you're welcome for telling you to lower your tire psi :poosie:

SuggarDaddy

08-31-2004, 07:43 PM

hey melvin post that slip man, i witnessed the run to but i'd still love to see the slip!

rx7_turbo2

08-31-2004, 10:17 PM

You can go ahead and post up the slip, it doesnt change my mind in the least. I don't think it can run that time. I must have said it 10 times now but I'm more than willing to change my mind however I'm going to need to see the run to believe it. I also wouldnt mind taking a look at the car in person. Now I've also said this a few times as well. The owner of this car has nothing to prove to me. He has his slip and is happy with it, and that's fine. So if he wants to run again, and allows me to look at his car, that's cool, if he chooses not to do those things it makes no difference to either of us. The numbers just don't equate in my head (something else I've said already.

Now Loose once again you've "heard" your old car pulled that number. Even on the ragged edge I'm not sure it could do that. But we get into the same debate again. If he has the graph of it doing the 240rwhp pull, my guess is the Dynojet is out to lunch, but in order to prove that it means more runs on different dyno's on different day's. If I was the owner I'd just take the 240 graph and run with it, use it for bragging rights etc. Go4Long is in the same boat, he has the slip and he's going with it. I don't blame him. There will always be a few of us however who question everything. My best advice is to just ignore us ;)

Loose

09-01-2004, 06:49 AM

Max, his slip jives. His all of the times and mph line up, compared to my slip. If anything, the car has more mods than we know about.

Maybe you guys can all go to the track, then the dyno, then to max's place to tear down his car:rolleyes:

This is pretty rediculous if you ask me, your supposed to be happy for your fellow RX-7 guys, not tear them down and accuse them of bending the laws of science.

Go4Long

09-01-2004, 07:22 AM

well...as an update...after the Fcon it deffinately runs better on 94 octane(hehe...oops)...and apparently hitting 13 psi(plus whatever it was hitting before I blew the first motor) is not so great for the turbo, it now is making sounds like it is packing its bags...so I am not sure if I will make it out this week or not(or at least maybe as a spectator)

cocobrava: yeah man thanks...2 psi = almost a tenth :D

brbHPR: yes, please post the slip...that 240 was awesome man...I loved that thing

Maxt

09-01-2004, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by Loose
Max, his slip jives. His all of the times and mph line up, compared to my slip. If anything, the car has more mods than we know about.

Maybe you guys can all go to the track, then the dyno, then to max's place to tear down his car:rolleyes:

This is pretty rediculous if you ask me, your supposed to be happy for your fellow RX-7 guys, not tear them down and accuse them of bending the laws of science.
Loose, if you had half the inkling of what or how your car works , you wouldn't be posting that it made GENUINE240 rwhp with a major tuneup, for a guy that spends alot of time with a calculator you'd think youd spend 5 minutes figuring the fueling required for that hp on a Rx-7 before you opened your gob...
Don't knock my car, I am not the guy that had such a hard time removing 8 or so nuts that hold a turbo on...:rolleyes:...
You car will not do 240 rwhp on stock fueling, if it does, you need to find a new place to dyno your cars, you are being lied to...
Go to
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/fuel_system/calcs.html
Enter 550's and see what it spits out...
Not only that the HT18s doesn't put out enough lb's/hr to hold the boost capable of making that power...
4x550's stock fuel pump, no mods, and 240 rwhp, umm yeah ok..
Your on Glue loose, think about it....
Yeah we usually support Rx-7 people, we typically go out of our way to help them, but when the shit is getting hip deep its time to bail...Maxt

Loose

09-01-2004, 06:57 PM

LOL, your knocking me for having trouble taking my turbo off....i'm crushed. I'm an engineer, not a mechanic.:thumbsup:

...and 240rwhp, dynojet speak, is more like 222 rwhp, uncorrected. you dig? according to your handy dandy web calculator that is under the maximum horse power for a T2, even at 85% duty cycle

anyway, on with the regularly scheduled programing

Maxt

09-01-2004, 10:46 PM

So why can't you do the math?..
Actually on the stock ecu, it would never approach 85% duty cycle, so something you said isn't true about your stock car posting 240 rwhp... with the duty cylce you are likely to see on the stock ecu they are only good for about 170 rwhp, or about 190 flyhweel, stock car is mid 180's..coincidence? Don't think so, you are claiming more hp than a stock FD puts out, with less injector, turbo, and fuel pump..
You would need to alter the fuel maps to push past probably 70% on the stock ecu and your car did this all below the 8.5 psi boost cut ..hmm.. ok pinnochio..... Maxt

Loose

09-01-2004, 11:08 PM

who said 8.5 psi boost einstein? (since we are now calling each other names)

rx7_turbo2

09-01-2004, 11:38 PM

Now now gentlemen.

Chris Ng needed more than 720cc secondaries to run anywhere near that 240 dyno jet number loose. And that was with the Wolf, which could run the injector duty cycle @ 85+, not to mention an aftermarket FPR bumping up pressure in the rail, oh and lets not forget an FD pump. It became obvious very quickly that even at 90+ duty cycles on the injectors that the 720's were to small to keep optimal air fuel ratio's, so Chris made the switch to 1600cc secondaries.

But your old car spits out that number on stock fuel system? A system with a wacky fuel pump wiring setup, and the stock ECU? Once again I'm not saying the owner doesnt have a graph to prove me wrong, but I really think the dyno is WAY out to lunch. Is this the same dyno you once complained about the operator not knowing how to dyno a rotary correctly? Once again it's a case of the numbers not adding up at all.

Chris Ng

09-02-2004, 12:51 AM

I Think we just need a great big group hug...

Let's just all get along.. I actually can't believe that this thread has gone on as long as it has..

Dyno numbers are hard to compare..if you take into account of all the variables that could affect dyno numbers; Dyno model, weather/altitude conditions, dyno operator, . testing parameters that were inputted etc, sometimes dyno results will not match up with what you think it will..
Unless all the cars in question are run on the same dyno, on the same day, I doubt there will be any resolution to this argument...

BTW, Loosey, whatcha driving now that you got rid of Arnie?

Loose

09-02-2004, 09:28 AM

Still driving the grandpa car... sort of bouncing around the idea of a used Spec v, Type-R, or maybe even as Lex SC400. Hopefully will have enough flow by spring to get something.

Maxt

09-02-2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Loose
who said 8.5 psi boost einstein? (since we are now calling each other names)
You said, stock fuel, engine, turbo blah blah blah, you gonna deviate from that now?
When you want to know if some is bullshitting on hp numbers, just look at the fuel setup, you have to have the fuel to make the power, and your car, simply doesn't have the fuel for that power output... You can only run up duty cycle so far on stock tuning, the ecu is only mapped to a certain duty cycle, and its not 85%, judging by whats in Rx-7 magazine, its in the high 60's on most of mazda's cars... Which jives with the fuel calculator.. Even with an safc you can only push the map up to the highest programmed duty cycle, you add larger injectors and then dial it down where you don't need the excess fuel.. The stock fuel pump and wiring is border line at stock hp levels, factor in 16 years of age, and it would be lucky to support even stock numbers..
If anyone is bending the laws of science, its your dyno operator...Maxt

Go4Long

09-02-2004, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Loose
Still driving the grandpa car... sort of bouncing around the idea of a used Spec v, Type-R, or maybe even as Lex SC400. Hopefully will have enough flow by spring to get something.

used to drive a spec V...good car, although no where near as quick as the 7...

it doesn't take much to manipulate a dyno number, maxt is right on that one(happy day, Max and I agree on something)...there are many different ways to manipulate them(I think toma is much more in tune with what all of them are, not that I am accusing him of doing them...it's just pretty easy to figure out), all you have to do from my understanding is manipulate the environmental factors in the dyno(altitude and the likes)...again this is all just from my basic understanding, but I believe dynos correct for weather variables as well as altitude and the likes...

Maxt

09-02-2004, 09:54 PM

Yes thats right...
I don't like comparing dyno graphs, unless the dynos are done in the same conditions, on the same dyno, really on the same day..
One of the boneheads on Rx-7forum was trying to point a 20 hp advantage at 3000 rpm from one port jop to another on dynographs from
a)2 different brands of dyno
b) 2 different cars
c)2 different sized turbos
d)2 different series of cars s4 vs s6
e)2 different days
f) in 2 different locations
g) through 2 different exhaust systems
h) with each car under the influence of 2 different tuners

Pretty hard to say what factor led to the 20 hp indiscretion..maxt

Go4Long

09-02-2004, 11:08 PM

hehe...we continue to agree...this is creepy :D
it is kinda bad though, how easy it is to take advantage of a dyno graph...as an example, when I used to own my sentra spec V, no one was able to crack the ECU, then a company came out and said they had done it and had shown X number of HP gains...problem was that according to the dyno graph the revs went up to 6800rpm, on the spec v's the valves start to float at 6400 rpm...I went through the graph with a calculator, and all the numbers had been increased by 8%...the company was never able to explain why all the numbers were exacly 8% higher across the board, experts decided it was due to some sort of change in the environmental factors.

Loose

09-03-2004, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Go4Long

used to drive a spec V...good car, although no where near as quick as the 7...

I realize that. Now that I live in a condo with one underground stall, I only have room for one car. I want a car that is fun to drive and can be used all year and for long distance drives (for work). I think it will end up being a car like a Spec V. There are quite a few for $17-19K with low mileage. Makes sense to me. I'd rather have a 2 door, like an ITR or RSX, but I think they are mostly over priced. I mean you can buy a 2 year old Spec V with 40,000km or a 7 year old ITR with 130,000km, for roughly the same price.

A T2, while I love them, is just not suitable for me right now.

rx7_turbo2

09-03-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Loose

A T2, while I love them, is just not suitable for me right now.

The majority of us have come to the same conclusion as you know Chris. I drove my T2 in stock form for one winter. While it handled fine in the winter and I had no driving issues, it became clear to me very quickly that the T2 could not survive long as my everyday driver. At least not with the introduction of mods by some influential people ;) It needed to be a project car and a secondary vehicle. I needed to find myself some other form of cheap reliable transportation.

The n/a FC is better for the everyday grind, but unless you can fix the problems by yourself it can become a headache. It's an old car, plain and simple. There are plenty of newer cars made by Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan etc that fit the bill much better, and lots can be had for a very reasonable price.