calgary clubbing [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums - Automotive Enthusiasts Community

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-01-2004, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Ok, why are we starting another one of these bullshit threads? Owners of bars have the right to discriminate if they want. They can let in who they want and turn away who they want. Maybe they just don't like your face, whatever LOL, pissing and moaning won't do a damn thing since it's not against the law to tell you to take a hike. Private property is private property, sucks for minorities, sure but meh, such is life...just go to the next bar.

WRONG!!! If you saw the news clip today, you'd know you were wrong. The club maybe private property but it's open to the public. Can you tell me that Walmart won't let you in to buy shit, and say oh well? It's ok because it's private. You'd be up in arms throwing them a law suit. What these club do is fucking wrong. And it's sad in 2004, the 21st century, that shit like this exist. Under the law if these clubs were private and you needed membership, they would have to operate like that 7 days a week. Which they obviously don't. Since they don't they can not discriminate.

For anyone who has been a victim of this bull shit I really urge you to throw them a civil law suit. I would but I haven't tried to go clubbing in years because I could never get in. Sue the fuck out of them, they deserve it. It's not 1950 for fuck sakes!!! The law is there to protect your rights, so use it!!

00redLUDE

09-01-2004, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Blah blah blah...:rofl: :whocares:

If you don't give a f*ck, then don't post in this thread, simple!!!

Ben

09-02-2004, 12:23 AM

I truly think it's done more out of prevention and not to be all out hate racist towards non whites. Many of the club owners are non white, but whenever we hear about another stabbing at a club in calgary, it's an asian gang, or lebanese gang, or a latino gang blah blah blah (we've all seen bowling for columbine). Sure, there are white people fights too, but far more minority ones based on statistical information collected from calgary police. This wouldn't happen if white people were not the predominant color on this land mass, it's not like they can say "No Whites" cause they would lose the largest percentage of clientelle doing that. And statisics have pointed out otherwise.

Yes, it sucks hardcore, but racial profiling DOES exist and is a part of life in north america. It's terrible that it has to exist but it does, it always will when there is a multicultural society. I'm not sure what more can be said. I guess I could simplify it...

Statisticly teens are the most likely to shoplift from a convenience store, so what have many of them done? Placed a maximum amount of young people allowed inside the premiss at any given time.

Same thing really...what most of these nightclub owners are doing is playing the statistics. You'd be dumb not to really. Erring on the side of caution is smart play. Any business owner that doesn't generally winds up out of business, in trouble with the law, or victim of crime. THe nightclub owner would rather take the risk of a loss in revenue over constant fights and other crimes that would drive away even more business after a couple incidences (look at the palace heavens sake) Anyone remember Capital, and Heavens, what a joke those places were, only place in calgary I ever felt truly unsafe.

Sure, some bouncers are total assholes, total pricks, and yes there are lots of cases out there where unjustices have been played. However, for the most part all of this has been started by a few bad apples creating a fear in the public of having a bunch of people together with drugs / alcohol, and conflicting personalities and values all colliding in one giant train wreck.

I've spent a lot of time down in the states in areas where it was predominantly NON white, and I've been discriminated against, insulted, yelled at and assaulted because I'm white, but I dont go fuckin whining about it. I'm not from around there, and do not expect them to change all the rules and way of life just to accomodate me. Not happy with the environment, then move to a better one.

Call me a push over, but to me, it's not worth it just for over priced under quality drinks, and leaving dirty and smelly. Not my idea of fun.

My thoughts, not neccessarily yours.

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 12:31 AM

Ok Ben, let's say in a certain city in California, statistics show that black people shoplift the most out of all the different races. Does that mean that 7-11's and Walmart have the right to ban black people from their stores? Or do they and should they reject some black people, who look like they "might" steal. But let the ones who "look" less likely to steal, in their stores?

Skyline_Addict

09-02-2004, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Neeper

WRONG!!! If you saw the news clip today, you'd know you were wrong. The club maybe private property but it's open to the public. Can you tell me that Walmart won't let you in to buy shit, and say oh well? It's ok because it's private. You'd be up in arms throwing them a law suit. What these club do is fucking wrong. And it's sad in 2004, the 21st century, that shit like this exist. Under the law if these clubs were private and you needed membership, they would have to operate like that 7 days a week. Which they obviously don't. Since they don't they can not discriminate.

For anyone who has been a victim of this bull shit I really urge you to throw them a civil law suit. I would but I haven't tried to go clubbing in years because I could never get in. Sue the fuck out of them, they deserve it. It's not 1950 for fuck sakes!!! The law is there to protect your rights, so use it!!

Are you sure it's open to the public? I think you're partially right on this, as that doesn't make clubs a first come first serve basis. If "Walmart" was at full capacity, it would have to "filter" out a certain demographic which it believes will contribute to it's capital, both present and future, the most. That doesn't mean letting in the first guy who shows up to the door.....

How old are you? Are you sure you NEVER get in? I'm a 19 year old oriental kid, and I've never had problems getting into a club. I even got into Whiskey (25+)....

Ben

09-02-2004, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Neeper
Ok Ben, let's say in a certain city in California, statistics show that black people shoplift the most out of all the different races. Does that mean that 7-11's and Walmart have the right to ban black people from their stores? Or do they and should they reject some black people, who look like they "might" steal. But let the ones who "look" less likely to steal, in their stores?

Race profiling is not an easy thing to do due to all the human rights violations and media hype that come of it. far easier to profile by age than by skin color.

I merely used that as an example. You can read, I did say it sucks, its unfair, but it happens.

From what 've seen at bars and clubs is much the same as your "Looks less likely to steal" comment. Dress like a H Core thugg, act all tough, life fuck you're gonna get in. Act polite, dress civilized, I've never seen a problem. The only time I have ever seen someone turned aray at a club was a few years ago at The Palace where 5 ot 6 asian guys dressed in black and all thugged out with dyed bangs and bling chains all over them. And a drunk roudy guy of middle eastern decent at Cowboys. 2 occasions out of maybe 50-60 visits...*shrug* Maybe it's gotten a lot worse? :dunno:

I stopped clubbing all together. I'll be happy to donate my "White VIP Access" to anyone. :rolleyes:

403Gemini

09-02-2004, 01:23 AM

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

lint

09-02-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by t-im
I think some people need to calm down...if you can't get into a club..tough..go somewhere else..and honestly, it's not the end of the world if you can't get into that club...

and violence can bring down a club, look what happen to Palace....thats why clubs are more "selective" about who goes in..and hey, more power to them...

It's an attitude like yours that helps to perpetuate the problem. The "I can get it, so there must not be a problem" just condones what they're doing. Would you say the same thing if it was a restaurant? A movie theatre? How about trying to get into a hockey game?

Allowing a club to deny entry because they "think" that someone of color "might" cause problems doesn't cut it. That is saying that they are guilty without just cause. How would you feel if our justice system were to work in the same way? You don't need to be proven guilty, you already are. The burden of proof lies in proving your innocense? Are we back to the French penal system?

They've been doing this for years, it's nothing new. I've been denied entry to a number of bars over a number of years. It doesn't matter who owns the establishment. I've never caused a problem at a bar, my friends and I are all educated professionals, who dress appropriately. We don't go "thugging it" etc. If the place doesn't want to take my money, suits me fine. I have no real desire to go to the clubs any more anyways. I do have a problem with the idiots who get turned away, and then throw money at the bouncers to let them in.

As for the arguement that it's all the colored people who cause problems, how come you don't see the same discrimination in cities like Toronto or Montreal? Where there is a much more diverse mix? Could it be that the problems are magnified by the news here? As for the violence at the Palace, don't think that poor treatment by the bouncers isn't going to bring some kind of retribution. People, white or colored, don't take kindly to being treated like crap.

lint

09-02-2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Ben

Race profiling is not an easy thing to do due to all the human rights violations and media hype that come of it. far easier to profile by age than by skin color.

I merely used that as an example. You can read, I did say it sucks, its unfair, but it happens.

From what 've seen at bars and clubs is much the same as your "Looks less likely to steal" comment. Dress like a H Core thugg, act all tough, life fuck you're gonna get in. Act polite, dress civilized, I've never seen a problem. The only time I have ever seen someone turned aray at a club was a few years ago at The Palace where 5 ot 6 asian guys dressed in black and all thugged out with dyed bangs and bling chains all over them. And a drunk roudy guy of middle eastern decent at Cowboys. 2 occasions out of maybe 50-60 visits...*shrug* Maybe it's gotten a lot worse? :dunno:

I stopped clubbing all together. I'll be happy to donate my "White VIP Access" to anyone. :rolleyes:

Race profiling is alot easier than you may think. That's why they still let a certain few into the bar so that they can argue "we aren't racist, look there are some colored people in there". Racism isn't as open and overt as it once was, or maybe still is, in places like Mississippi. It is much more low key now. Where you will be denied access to certain bars, when you go shopping, the security guy will follow you and not some other customers.

And of course, since you've never seen it happen, it must be false? I've never been thugged out, always polite, always dressed appropriately, and when I get turned away BEFORE I even get to the door, I think there's a problem. Don't tell me that there's an age limit when you never asked to check my ID, don't tell me that there's a dress code, when it's not posted, and I'm dressed properly, and don't try to feed me bullshit about a private function or that it's a private establishment, when you know full well it's not. I for one would be much happier if it was in your face racism, but then that would be too easy to bring down a lawsuit.

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict

Are you sure it's open to the public? I think you're partially right on this, as that doesn't make clubs a first come first serve basis. If "Walmart" was at full capacity, it would have to "filter" out a certain demographic which it believes will contribute to it's capital, both present and future, the most. That doesn't mean letting in the first guy who shows up to the door.....

How old are you? Are you sure you NEVER get in? I'm a 19 year old oriental kid, and I've never had problems getting into a club. I even got into Whiskey (25+)....

I am 26 going on 27. I am married and a business owner. I am an adult, not some kid trying to get into the club. I have clean cut hair and do not wear baggy clothes. I get turned away even before I get to the door as well. I am no thug, and do not even look like a thug. I've been denied from bouncers just walking up alone with my filipino wife. Honestly, they have no reason whatsoever to deny us access, but besides the color of our skin.

BTW, it's been like this since I was 20. When Electric Ave was around, I never had a problem getting into Coconut Joe's, or Three Cheers or any of those clubs down there. The first time ever getting denied for me was when I was 20 and went to Cowboys.

silentrage

09-02-2004, 10:44 AM

The worst situation I've had trying to get into a bar is getting asked for 3 pieces of picture ID. Who the hell has 3? I only have one. DL. Even my birth certificate (Canadian) doesn't have a picture. And I'm supposed to walk around w/ my friggin passport or something? That's pretty blatent racism if you ask me.

googe

09-02-2004, 10:47 AM

Walmart doesnt have a problem with drunk shoppers. Restaurants dont have a problem with fights. Pet stores dont have a problem with gang activity. They have no reason to take precautions to avoid these things. You just cant compare them.

Youre going into a room crammed full with drunk people. What do you expect? If you want to be treated in a civilized manner, go to a civilized establishment. If you want to go to places designed to babysit shit faced people you cant expect a whole lot :)

lint

09-02-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Neeper

I am 26 going on 27. I am married and a business owner. I am an adult, not some kid trying to get into the club. I have clean cut hair and do not wear baggy clothes. I get turned away even before I get to the door as well. I am no thug, and do not even look like a thug. I've been denied from bouncers just walking up alone with my filipino wife. Honestly, they have no reason whatsoever to deny us access, but besides the color of our skin.

BTW, it's been like this since I was 20. When Electric Ave was around, I never had a problem getting into Coconut Joe's, or Three Cheers or any of those clubs down there. The first time ever getting denied for me was when I was 20 and went to Cowboys.

I hear ya. Been there, really turns you off. I've gone to the bar I think once this year. Have absolutely no desire to waste my money on those places. And from what I've experience, the attitude in this city isn't going to change anytime soon. Paul Vickers is quoted in the Herald that they don't discriminate, etc etc. Right, just like they don't just hire big titted blondes to work at his bars either. :rolleyes:

lint

09-02-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by silentrage
The worst situation I've had trying to get into a bar is getting asked for 3 pieces of picture ID. Who the hell has 3? I only have one. DL. Even my birth certificate (Canadian) doesn't have a picture. And I'm supposed to walk around w/ my friggin passport or something? That's pretty blatent racism if you ask me.

Only 3? You were lucky. I've been asked for 5 at multiple places, and the dumbass bouncers couldn't name them.

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by googe
Walmart doesnt have a problem with drunk shoppers. Restaurants dont have a problem with fights. Pet stores dont have a problem with gang activity. They have no reason to take precautions to avoid these things. You just cant compare them.

Youre going into a room crammed full with drunk people. What do you expect? If you want to be treated in a civilized manner, go to a civilized establishment. If you want to go to places designed to babysit shit faced people you cant expect a whole lot :)
Where in my post did I say drunk shoppers at Walmart? Read my post again. You can not tell me they don't have a problem with theft. I bet you Walmart has a huge problem theft. So my question to you is. If statistics show that 80% of theft is caused by people black people (merely just an example), does Walmart have to the right to deny 90% off the black people that try to shop there?

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 11:04 AM

This pulled from the Canadian Human Rights Act:

Discriminatory Practices

Denial of good, service, facility or accommodation

5. It is a discriminatory practice in the provision of goods, services, facilities or accommodation customarily available to the general public

(a) to deny, or to deny access to, any such good, service, facility or accommodation to any individual,

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/H-6/31147.html

davidI

09-02-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Neeper
Ok Ben, let's say in a certain city in California, statistics show that black people shoplift the most out of all the different races. Does that mean that 7-11's and Walmart have the right to ban black people from their stores? Or do they and should they reject some black people, who look like they "might" steal. But let the ones who "look" less likely to steal, in their stores?

In Junior High I remember Macs would only let in a couple people at a time to prevent stealing. They looked at our demographic (age) and limited our numbers. They were just preventing problems from happening.

Neeper, your arguments are great from a theoretical and ideological standpoint but they just don't hold up in the real world. If they let every gangbanger in then I sure as hell wouldn't be at the clubs. Clubs are just saving their own asses by rejecting those who they think are just there to cause trouble. Yes it sucks that it is based on race but I don't hear of many white guys fighting with machetes on 1st st. after the bars closed. You should really be complaining about the people that force people to form racial stereotypes and discriminate accordingly.

googe

09-02-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Neeper

Where in my post did I say drunk shoppers at Walmart? Read my post again. You can not tell me they don't have a problem with theft. I bet you Walmart has a huge problem theft. So my question to you is. If statistics show that 80% of theft is caused by people black people (merely just an example), does Walmart have to the right to deny 90% off the black people that try to shop there?

I didnt say you said that. I said because they dont have those problems it doesnt work to compare walmart to a club. I dont think you can compare clubs to any other public establishment really. Sure its not right, but the people that own these places are rich because they get people drunk and get girls to have their racks hanging out. Thats the whole mentality of the demographic they primarily cater to. Im not saying its ok or justified, its just silly to expect much better.

If you personally get turned away from a classy establishment that serves drinks then I think we have a problem. Or a pub even.

Walmart does have a problem with theft, but theres a far easier way to address that. They have cameras and security to watch people they think might steal. Someone steals, they see it, charge them, restock the item. They dont really take a loss until the item leaves the store.

At a club, their "loss" happens immediately when the fight starts, so all they can do is prevent it. Its not as easy. There isnt a much more practical way of dealing with it.

Melinda

09-02-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by lint
I've been denied entry to a number of bars over a number of years. It doesn't matter who owns the establishment. I've never caused a problem at a bar, my friends and I are all educated professionals, who dress appropriately.

Maybe it's cause you're so funny looking? :) Just kidding :D

I'm a white girl and I have had one problem before. A little over a year ago we were out for a friend's birthday and there was a large group of us trying to get into cowboys. I'm trying to think back to the racial mix we had and I think at most we had one asian and one brown guy and the rest of us were white. However, the guys out numbered the girls by quite a bit. The door guys started to let the girl through but then started picking at the shoes the guys were wearing (even though they weren't runners), and one guy was even told that the stripped button up shirt he was wearing open with a tshirt under it wasnt up to dress code. Needless to say, we didn't get in that night. I'm gussing the guy/girl ratio was too high. Either way, it kinda sucks. I dont go to clubs often, so it wasnt a huge heart breaker to me but discrimination happens in alot of different situations. A couple of guys out for a good time no matter what race they are still have troubles too..Whatever, If you hate it then just dont go there and tell all your friends not to go there anymore...if enough people spread the word and listen, maybe they'll listen or shut down.

Regardless, you dont need to be at the bars to have a good night

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 01:00 PM

Clubs, restaurants and businesses ALL RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DENY SERVICE. Plain and simple, there is not much you can do about it. Try to fight it and the doorman'll say you were being rude or bullshit etc....

I don't see what the problem is, follow my tips posted originally and you'll get in. C'est la vie, deal with it.

And Neeper, you seem to love to throw suits around like you are from the US. Give it a rest.

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Clubs, restaurants and businesses ALL RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DENY SERVICE. Plain and simple, there is not much you can do about it. Try to fight it and the doorman'll say you were being rude or bullshit etc....

I don't see what the problem is, follow my tips posted originally and you'll get in. C'est la vie, deal with it.

And Neeper, you seem to love to throw suits around like you are from the US. Give it a rest.

The law is there to protect us and our rights. Of course you don't see what the problem is, it's never happened to you. I gaurantee if I "follow" your tips I still won't get in. "Mix up the ethnicity of my group"? Why the fuck would I have to even think about doing that? Think about what you just said. You condone racial discrimination? Don't let more than a group of 3 Chinks in? But 3 chinks and 2 white guys are ok?

Why the fuck should we give it a rest? Just because you can get in you don't give a shit about others. That's great for you. It affected me negatively and it hurt my feeling to be rejected because of my skin color. Since there is a law to protect my rights, I should use it. It's there for a reason. I am as much of a Canadian as you are. If it was you that was denied all the time, I know you'd have a different opinion on this.

Go read the the Rights Act link I provided and tell me that ALL BUSINESSES have the right to deny service. "No shirts, no shoes, no service" is a completely different than discriminating against whole group of people.

Googe, with the camera thing: They do have them in stores to prevent theft. So why not use the barwatch system Edmonton has in place, and set up cameras in the clubs? Setup cameras and catch the trouble makers. Hand it to police and let them take care of the punks. Police then can flag them in their system for bars, so when their ID is scanned they are flagged. This will for sure weed out the bad ones, and let the rest of us "colored" people have fun. Oh and you can't tell me, white people don't fight too.

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 01:46 PM

hey, chill out! I have been denied too, I just make a much better effort in terms of who I go with, ratios, what I wear etc in order to keep my chances of getting in, quite high. I hate wasting time, planning to go out only to get denied. I am sorry your feelings were hurt, so have many people's including mine, but when you run a business like a bar (I have) you figure out how to reduce the trouble that goes on in your establishment. After all they own clubs to make money and provide a fun atmosphere, not to babysit shit heads that start fights or listen to whiners in running shoes and ball caps that may not spend any money....

It's a numbers/statistics game..always has and always will be...it's not meant to attack you or insult you personally. I am truly sorry you were subjected to such treatment, but again it's the way it is.

Ex: some bouncer gets jumped and attacked by a group or black/asian/arab guys and gets his ass kicked...next weekend is he going to be happy to see anyone of that race? You could have caught an unlucky break like that and that is not the bar's fault ..

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 01:50 PM

BTW I resent that you said I condone racial discrimination. That is complete bullshit and anyone who knows me would agree.

Mckenzie

09-02-2004, 01:51 PM

I just watched a global news special on this topic. They did a hidden camera thing where a guy wearing a turban was branded a criminal from Vancouver, was denied access and lied to. He is trying to raise some stink with the human rights commission and rightly so....he was treated like shit and assaulted by the bouncer. It was pretty harsh.

On the other hand, they did get into 4/5 clubs they tried to get into so it does not happen to everyone.

Other than that, I think club owners have no choice but to watch who they let it nto their clubs. Alcohol+jam-packed people+women chasing can get ugly, especially with large (sometimes ethnic) groups of people known to cause trouble. I am not racist but unfortunatly some profiling is true and certain people get the short end of the stick.

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-02-2004, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
BTW I resent that you said I condone racial discrimination. That is complete bullshit and anyone who knows me would agree. I apologize or that outburst. I didn't actually say you condone it, I was asking if you condone it, which pretty much looks like i said you did. I was in a bit of anger. But you keep saying that's the way it is. Yes it is the way it is, but it's not right. That's the whole point of the arguement. Can you agree that it's not right, and maybe something needs to change?? I just can't allow myself to beileve that's just the way it is and accept it.

Skyline_Addict

09-02-2004, 02:08 PM

There are alot of good arguments for (but not necessarily supporting) both sides.
As I haven't had any problems with racial profiling per se, I can't speak my views on such an opinionated agenda.
However, I can say that "business is business".
Clubs, like any other business, will do what they see fit to increase profit. Profit is a product of many factors, such as catering to a certain demographic, while seeming to discriminate another.
Whether their business "plans" reflect on higher profits or not, is their problem.
Like some people said, "I'm fine with the fact that they don't want me to spend my money there."

lint

09-02-2004, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Melinda

Maybe it's cause you're so funny looking? :) Just kidding :D

Hey! You leave my funny-lookingness out of this... :(:angel:

The point that I'm trying to make, and I think Neeper is too, is that these establishements do not have free reign over who gets in a who doesn't just because they have a disclaimer that says they can RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DENY service. That goes back to the apartheid days where blacks were denied seating at the front of the bus, had to use separate washrooms and drinking fountains. Denying service has to do with the patron DOING SOMETHING either in violation of health regulations, acting disruptive, etc. You can't prevent someone from entering an establishment on the ASSUMPTION that THEY MIGHT do something. I have no problem with them removing individuals if they have caused problems.

From my perspective, I have been denied entry for no reason. And with the number of times that this has occured, not only to myself, but my other friends who are non-white, it certainly reeks of racism. Friends of mine that visit from other cities have commented that their counterparts here boast about being redneck, it's an old boys club. These aren't isolated incidents or attitudes.

Zorro, you say that you don't condone racial discrimination. Well, your actions speak otherwise. If you continue to frequent and support organizations where you have witnessed discrimination or racial profiling, or had it happen to you or others you know, then you are condinging it. You are also playing into the stereotype that unless you are wearing $200 shirts and Gucci belts, etc, then you are obviously a thug who is out to cause trouble. If you go to a bar with your buddies, you are there to cause trouble. Etc etc etc. A major contributor to the perpetuation of this problem is that so many people accept it. So they get turned down at a club for no reason, big deal. They'll either try to grease the bouncer this time (apparently $50 has a way of magically transforming you from trouble maker into a contributing member of the club society), or go back another time and hope they have better luck. If you were turned away from Walmart , or McDonalds, or Safeway, etc, you know that you'd blow a shit about it and not let them get away with it. Why? Because the bars, their owners, other patrons who go there tell you that it's ok for the bars to discriminate against you. They're doing it to protect you and your safety. Because they know, and really you should know, that when a group of (insert non-white ethnic group here) get together, there's a trouble brewing.

You're right though, the only real solution is to not go to these establishments. Give your hard earned money to a place that wants you there, that respects you and will allow you to enjoy yourself with who you chose. But most aren't strong enough to do that, peer pressure makes them bow to their friend's wills, those same friends who accept the policy, or play it off like it rarely happens, and tell you that you're stupid for standing up for what you believe in.

davidI

09-02-2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
There are alot of good arguments for (but not necessarily supporting) both sides.
As I haven't had any problems with racial profiling per se, I can't speak my views on such an opinionated agenda.
However, I can say that "business is business".
Clubs, like any other business, will do what they see fit to increase profit. Profit is a product of many factors, such as catering to a certain demographic, while seeming to discriminate another.
Whether their business "plans" reflect on higher profits or not, is their problem.
Like some people said, "I'm fine with the fact that they don't want me to spend my money there."

EXACTLY!

There is a reason the bars on 1st street don't get my business, I don't wanna be stabbed for looking at some asian girl. I go to Cowboys cause if I piss some guy off he comes at me with his fists instead of a machete and I don't die. I know so many guys who talk shit and act like they're thugs and then bitch when they don't get into bars. One of my buddies is a bouncer at tequila and he let in a couple of brown dudes we went to high school with because they promised they'd be good...they started shit and Steve had to deal with it / get in shit for letting them in. There are too many wanna be thugz who act all hardcore and then bitch when they don't get into a place because they're going to start trouble. I know it sux that some people get rejected when they aren't 'thuggin' but personally I'd rather have that than be hurt

boi-alien

09-02-2004, 03:07 PM

what I don't understand is why this happens in Calgary only it seems. I went clubbing in various other cities all over the country, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, L.A., Vegas, etc... I have yet to have ANY problems whatsoever getting into clubs in those major cities (where you'd think there are more ethnic people thus there would be more to cause trouble), but when it comes to Calgary, I see people getting turned away left right and center, I myself have been a victim of this many times, being asked for 5 pieces (yes five) of ID, or "this isn't you", "this is 25+ only (let's in a 18yr old white girl in", etc... One time we called the club (tequila) in advance, got one of the ladies to call and here was the conversation:

"Hi, I was wondering what the age restriction is for tonight (saturday)?"
"18+"
"for everybody??"
"yes, except if you're a guy, then it's quite a bit higher"
"ok, and what's the dress code?"
"well, for the ladies you can get away with pretty much everything, but for guys you'd have to dress up a bit"..

But the point I'm trying to make is, why doesn't this happen anywhere else? why does it only happen in Calgary.

jdmakkord

09-02-2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by boi-alien
what I don't understand is why this happens in Calgary only it seems. I went clubbing in various other cities all over the country, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, L.A., Vegas, etc... I have yet to have ANY problems whatsoever getting into clubs in those major cities (where you'd think there are more ethnic people thus there would be more to cause trouble), but when it comes to Calgary, I see people getting turned away left right and center, I myself have been a victim of this many times, being asked for 5 pieces (yes five) of ID, or "this isn't you", "this is 25+ only (let's in a 18yr old white girl in", etc... One time we called the club (tequila) in advance, got one of the ladies to call and here was the conversation:

"Hi, I was wondering what the age restriction is for tonight (saturday)?"
"18+"
"for everybody??"
"yes, except if you're a guy, then it's quite a bit higher"
"ok, and what's the dress code?"
"well, for the ladies you can get away with pretty much everything, but for guys you'd have to dress up a bit"..

But the point I'm trying to make is, why doesn't this happen anywhere else? why does it only happen in Calgary.

Cause when you're Paul Vickers, and you own half of the spots downtown......you set your own rules, and screw everyone else. Hell, read his response in the herald today, he doesn't deny anything in regards to profiling patrons,

ryder_23

09-02-2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Mckenzie

Other than that, I think club owners have no choice but to watch who they let it nto their clubs. Alcohol+jam-packed people+women chasing can get ugly, especially with large (sometimes ethnic) groups of people known to cause trouble. I am not racist but unfortunatly some profiling is true and certain people get the short end of the stick.

I think the majority of time that they dont get let in, is when their in bigger groups. Cause, usually when people are lookin for trouble, they travel in a big group. Thats when i saw it atleast. It was at cowboys months ago. And there was a group of asians, and the bouncers wouldnt let them in, saying there pants were too "baggy", yet they were fairly tight pants, mine were "baggier" and they were fine with me getting in there. This has been an ongoing issue for years, surprised that they really "exposed" it now. Though i have seen it get alot better over the last year and a bit that i've been going to bars/clubs. Before when you go in there, it was nothing but white people. Now its good to see that there letting in people of a different race. But what makes me so mad, is when you walk around the bar, and you hear racists talkin to there friends when they see someone of a different race... (pardon my language, but this is what i hear), who let the "nigger" in, or who let the "asians" in there just gonna go "chop" someone, etc... Its terrible how our society still thinks like that :thumbsdow

just outa curiosity...if I were to goto a different country, where the dominant race is not white..would i have a problem gettin in anywhere? I know its a completly different senario, just wondering if theres the same white descrimination out there, like we have for different races.

max_boost

09-02-2004, 03:37 PM

Ahhh people, getting so worked up over this stuff. It's not like it's anything new?:dunno:

After reading over most of the responses, all I can say is, from the bouncer's perspective, he's just following orders from the big boss.

From the clubber's perspective, unfortunately you have to play by the bar's rules, which is basically what Zorro said: dressing up, more females in the group etc. That's just the way it is, it may be unfair but not everything in life is fair!:drama:

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 04:19 PM

Wow, some people love putting words in my mouth LOL...but hey, who gives a shit? Not me.

Here's why:

I know how to play by the rules that get me in to clubs. Is it right for me to let them discriminate? Probably not, but it doesn't happen to me because I don't give them the opportunity. In the end I DO know what's right and wrong, I get to go where I please and do what I want and I don't have anything to complain about.

Sure the whole process is a bit wrong from a humane standpoint, but it's not about to change because it's not that big a deal when it comes to business.

My suggestion: Maybe some of you should get off your high horses and play by their rules or stay home... :)

403Gemini

09-02-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by 403Gemini
Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

whoever deleted my post, instead of giving me a link to the rules, plz pm me and tell me what was diff on what i said compared to everybody else

thanks

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Wow, some people love putting words in my mouth LOL...but hey, who gives a shit? Not me.

*snip*

its cause your racist man... ;) hehe j/k

Chester

09-02-2004, 04:30 PM

Since that last thing was posted about how the black guy applied for a job as a bouncer I've gone to a bunch of clubs and have actually had no trouble getting in, even when wearing skater shoes:D

DSM Power

09-02-2004, 07:36 PM

Just watched the clip on TV tonight - sure seemed like a raw deal. Then I thought about it... wait a minute, how did they "catch" this on tape? The audio was pretty good to - must have been miked. Suspect reporting already. :drama:

Originally posted by Mckenzie

and just recently, global put a mike on him, and they set up cameras from a distance
they told him to go to 5 clubs with his brown friend and the only one that didn't let him in was tantra

Uh huh, can you say setup?! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ZorroAMG

Ex: some bouncer gets jumped and attacked by a group or black/asian/arab guys and gets his ass kicked...next weekend is he going to be happy to see anyone of that race? You could have caught an unlucky break like that and that is not the bar's fault ..

Yeah interesting that no one has talked about the two bouncers at Outlaws who got jumped by a group of "visible minorities". :dunno:

Don't take my comments as being insensitive towards racism - I think that is 100% unacceptable in today's day and age. But I respect the club's right to refuse entry to anyone they want to - especially if it means more girls inside than guys. :poosie:

wildrice

09-02-2004, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by ZorroAMG

Ex: some bouncer gets jumped and attacked by a group or black/asian/arab guys and gets his ass kicked...next weekend is he going to be happy to see anyone of that race? You could have caught an unlucky break like that and that is not the bar's fault ..

so what happens in some bouncer gets jumped and attacked by a group of whites? next weekend does that bouncer rejects all whites from going in?

Highly unlikely

danno567

09-02-2004, 08:25 PM

ryder_23,

dude, about your askin about problems in other countries.

ha ha ha ha ha ha you have seen nothing at all. Cant get in to a few clubs in Calgary?

HA HA HA go to s.korea buddy.
Here is a lowdown when i lived there (im white so ya know)

1) nightclubs --- everywhere (except near the army base) not a chance in hell. none, never, no way, go home white boy, go home.

2) taxis -- ( a real joke ) ever had 20-30 taxis pass you by? Don’t want your money? That’s real fun in the rain.

3)Restaurants -- Go, place my order in korean, --- they dont have it. The person beside me is eating what i ordered. But for me, they dont have it. Sorry about your luck.

I lived there, and wore business suits everyday to work. I was not a travel bum that may be deemed undesirable to locals. I worked there approx 8 years ago, so perhaps things
have changed. That’s my experience.

I have been to 21 countries and never had that treatment before. Getting denied to a club is far from a bad thing. Go to a nightclub in Mexico, or some other wicked country, and you will see what a nightclub is. The ones here are just reminders of what a sad nightlife we have.
Take a look at http://www.worldsbestbars.com/ and you will see what a disappointment the clubs are here.

ps -- ZorroAMG -- your too funny man !

LudeRoca

09-02-2004, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by davidI

EXACTLY!

There is a reason the bars on 1st street don't get my business, I don't wanna be stabbed for looking at some asian girl. I go to Cowboys cause if I piss some guy off he comes at me with his fists instead of a machete and I don't die. I know so many guys who talk shit and act like they're thugs and then bitch when they don't get into bars. One of my buddies is a bouncer at tequila and he let in a couple of brown dudes we went to high school with because they promised they'd be good...they started shit and Steve had to deal with it / get in shit for letting them in. There are too many wanna be thugz who act all hardcore and then bitch when they don't get into a place because they're going to start trouble. I know it sux that some people get rejected when they aren't 'thuggin' but personally I'd rather have that than be hurt

so your tellin us that brown people and asians are the only ones that go to clubs with machete's. White people are perfect lil angles that go to the club and have a few measly drinks and don't cause any havik and always fight with their fist. BULL FUCKING SHIT. Ive seen plenty of fights outside clubs (especially Cowboys) Where a weapon has been used by whites. THe problem with this thread is the fact that there is some bullshit stereotype about ethnics causing fights. Whoever says that is lying outta their ass. Fights in bars occur because people are drunk and do no think before they act. Yes some wannabe thug comes into a bar and thinks he hard and does stupid shit. BUt you can't label people like that as ethnics when whits are just as much to blame and cause just as much trouble.

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by wildrice

so what happens in some bouncer gets jumped and attacked by a group of whites? next weekend does that bouncer rejects all whites from going in?

Highly unlikely

Hey, I cannot speak for other peoples wrong doings and racism....I ain't GOD you know! :D:rofl:

Who wants to organize an Ethnic Pub Crawl with me this weekend?? :rofl: :rofl:

hjr

09-02-2004, 09:17 PM

the problem is that when a white person gets into shit, its not noticed as much because there are so damn many white guys. now a "visible minority", seeing as how they are a minority, when they fight in a club, its a lot easier to stereotype. so unfortunately, minorities need to be on better behavior than white people (in calgary). Sadly this doesnt happen and thats where the problem comes in.

hjr

09-02-2004, 09:19 PM

i have 2 other points to make

1- if you think its unfair, start you own club catering to asian or brown folks. you can use the practices to keep white people out if you wish

2- calgary is not a heaven on earth. if you are really that interested in clubbing, move somewhere where you can club without hassle.

ZorroAMG

09-02-2004, 09:22 PM

:clap: :clap:

LudeRoca

09-02-2004, 09:32 PM

wildrice

09-02-2004, 09:39 PM

ya man, stop the racism
too much of it going on in the world

GTS Jeff

09-02-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by LudeRoca

Here i got two points for ya..

1- SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU RACISM SUPPORTING PRICK

2- IF there was a club that opened catering strictly to asians and browns i bet you would be the first to complain about it so unless you know what its like to be discrimanated for the color of you skin i suggest you keep your comments to yourself. Sorry to blow up on you but I can't stand people that support racism. BAN me if be, but that needed to be said. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: hahahahaha

the only thing worse than a "racism supporting prick" is an angry noob that cant tell racism from hjr calling u an idiot.

LudeRoca

09-02-2004, 09:54 PM

hmm where in his post does he call anybody and idiot:rolleyes:

GTS Jeff

09-02-2004, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by LudeRoca
hmm where in his post does he call anybody and idiot:rolleyes: u need special goggles to see it. theyre called "perception" and u can buy them at a store called "normal social interactions."

PGTze

09-02-2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by davidI

There is a reason the bars on 1st street don't get my business, I don't wanna be stabbed for looking at some asian girl. I go to Cowboys cause if I piss some guy off he comes at me with his fists instead of a machete and I don't die. I know so many guys who talk shit and act like they're thugs and then bitch when they don't get into bars. One of my buddies is a bouncer at tequila and he let in a couple of brown dudes we went to high school with because they promised they'd be good...they started shit and Steve had to deal with it / get in shit for letting them in. There are too many wanna be thugz who act all hardcore and then bitch when they don't get into a place because they're going to start trouble. I know it sux that some people get rejected when they aren't 'thuggin' but personally I'd rather have that than be hurt

:werd: to that

First off I am a white guy, and in general what I have found is that dressing decent and going with some chicks will get me in almost anywhere no prob. Going soemwhere with a big group of dudes usually gets me quite the hassle and a long wait in line.

Me and my buds don't go around starting shit in clubs, save for one occasion. Not too long ago group of white guys I know got into it with another group of white guys at a popular club which shall remain neameless. Anytways my point is this, a brawl broke out which I do not condone, and the bouncers had to jump in and break things up. 5 minutes later we are outside and I am sticking up for my budy and I'm beaking with this guy, blah, blah, blah, and he takes a swing at me so i punched him in the face and we ended up scraping, and it's over, both sides go home. I am not proud of this story but I told it to make a point, not a single weapon was brought out or used by anyone on either side of the conflict and when the bouncers asked us to leave we did so willingly and punctualy.

Another story I have is at the same place, this time I was not involed but saw it all happen first hand. Guy#1 supposedly was 'looking at another guy#2's girl the wrong way'. So guy#2 of a different ethnic decent which shall remain nameless confronts guy#1 looking at his girl and socks him one in the face, so like any guy would do he gives a shot back, 2 second later there was like a dozen of guy#2 buddys all jumping the poor bastard with knives in their hands ready to slice anyone that tried to help guy#1 out. They then turned on the bouncers trying to break it up. It was a mess.

My point is that even though you may not be H-kore like those guys, they are the reason for 'racist stereotyping'. It's sad but true.

wildrice

09-02-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by PGTze

Going soemwhere with a big group of dudes usually gets me quite the hassle and a long wait in line.

Not too long ago group of white guys I know got into it with another group of white guys at a popular club

aren't those contradictory?

NickGT

09-02-2004, 10:41 PM

Clubs suck. You wanna wait in line, get hassled, pay cover just to get into a filthy, sweaty, stinky place. While paying out the nose for your drinks. Only to have some focker walk by and spill their drink on you cause they're wasted. People puking in corners, in the washrooms. Broken bottles on the floor. Losers stumbling around harassing your girlfriend. Music so loud you can't hear shit after you leave. Yah let the good times roll.

I'm a whitey and generally had no problems getting in when I was interested in this shit a couple years ago. I always went with lots of girls. But anyways it doesn't take long to see how pathetic night clubs here in Calgary are. I feel bad for those of you who have been discriminated racially. But can't help but wish I was denied on more than a few occasions. I'm sure the time and money could have been better spent elsewhere... Oh well.

YCB

09-02-2004, 10:42 PM

this is gettin awfully controversial...

i just wanted to let people know that it was on tv so u guys could watch... to check the validity of this

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=55070&highlight=clubbin

davidI

09-02-2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by LudeRoca

White people are perfect lil angles that go to the club and have a few measly drinks and don't cause any havik and always fight with their fist. BULL FUCKING SHIT. Ive seen plenty of fights outside clubs (especially Cowboys) Where a weapon has been used by whites.

That's funny cause I go to Cowboy just about every thursday during the school year for the last 2 years and have never seen a weapon pulled yet I've seen probably 100 fights and been involved in more than I'd care to say. I've been to the bars on 1st twice and both times saw people with knives outside. There's a reason I keep going to Cowboys and that's because I feel safe there. I've brought my asian buddies to Cowboys a few times too but they generally say it's not their 'style' or their 'crowd' yet when they take me out I end up being told how I'm gonna get 'chopped' by some dudes cousins brothers friend. All I was saying is that it's smart business practice on the part of Vickers to make people want to go to his clubs. Cowboys is packed every thursdsay. The shitholes on 1st have never been close to packed when I've been there. Vickers drives hot cars and even hotter women - I think he knows what he's doing. :drama:

403Gemini

09-02-2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by NickGT
Clubs suck. You wanna wait in line, get hassled, pay cover just to get into a filthy, sweaty, stinky place. While paying out the nose for your drinks. Only to have some focker walk by and spill their drink on you cause they're wasted. People puking in corners, in the washrooms. Broken bottles on the floor. Losers stumbling around harassing your girlfriend. Music so loud you can't hear shit after you leave. Yah let the good times roll.

I'm a whitey and generally had no problems getting in when I was interested in this shit a couple years ago. I always went with lots of girls. But anyways it doesn't take long to see how pathetic night clubs here in Calgary are. I feel bad for those of you who have been discriminated racially. But can't help but wish I was denied on more than a few occasions. I'm sure the time and money could have been better spent elsewhere... Oh well.

nick... you put it perfectly in your 1st paragraph *claps*

Seanith

09-02-2004, 11:36 PM

I guess the moral of the story is get a GF and never go to the bar again :rofl:
I for one know the only reason I ever went to the bar was to "try" to pick up chicks :)

88CRX

09-02-2004, 11:57 PM

shit is hitting the fan now :thumbsup:

sexualbanana

09-03-2004, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by hjr
i have 2 other points to make

1- if you think its unfair, start you own club catering to asian or brown folks. you can use the practices to keep white people out if you wish

2- calgary is not a heaven on earth. if you are really that interested in clubbing, move somewhere where you can club without hassle.

Originally posted by LudeRoca

2- IF there was a club that opened catering strictly to asians and browns i bet you would be the first to complain about it so unless you know what its like to be discrimanated for the color of you skin i suggest you keep your comments to yourself. Sorry to blow up on you but I can't stand people that support racism. BAN me if be, but that needed to be said.

There were a few clubs that catered to visible minorities. Heavens, Capital, Area 51 and all the other 1st street bars. A lot of them are closed now. Why? Because there's always news of weapons and unfair numbers at those bars. I've heard numerous stories of 10 on 3 fights, pepper spray use INSIDE THE BAR, weapon use against other patrons and bar staff.

PGTZE and DavidI make good points. When white guys fight, they go at it and it's over when the bouncers jump in. Save for a few occasions where weapons are drawn.

When visible minorities fight, they go at it, then turn on the bouncers who jump in, THEN call their brothers, cousins, god-siblings, neighbours and their cousin's dogs and then go at it again outside the bar where someone gets seriously injured.

I've seen this WAAAY too many times for this to be a convenience.

If you want to see similar behaviour, look at the high school scene. Schools with a high ethnicity mix are often the subject of some shit disturber at that school. I went to Central, where it was predominantly white. 2 guys don't see eye to eye, they punch and tackle each other for about 3 minutes. They kiss and make up.

00redLUDE

09-03-2004, 12:19 AM

88CRX

09-03-2004, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by sexualbanana

There were a few clubs that catered to visible minorities. Heavens, Capital, Area 51 and all the other 1st street bars. A lot of them are closed now. Why? Because there's always news of weapons and unfair numbers at those bars. I've heard numerous stories of 10 on 3 fights, pepper spray use INSIDE THE BAR, weapon use against other patrons and bar staff.

PGTZE and DavidI make good points. When white guys fight, they go at it and it's over when the bouncers jump in. Save for a few occasions where weapons are drawn.

When visible minorities fight, they go at it, then turn on the bouncers who jump in, THEN call their brothers, cousins, god-siblings, neighbours and their cousin's dogs and then go at it again outside the bar where someone gets seriously injured.

I've seen this WAAAY too many times for this to be a convenience.

If you want to see similar behaviour, look at the high school scene. Schools with a high ethnicity mix are often the subject of some shit disturber at that school. I went to Central, where it was predominantly white. 2 guys don't see eye to eye, they punch and tackle each other for about 3 minutes. They kiss and make up.

its so true..... and people who deny this fact are just lying to themselves.

B17a

09-03-2004, 07:59 AM

Okay, since all you guys are so hot and bothered over this, do some scientific research. Go to various Calgary bars over the next few weeks and look out for fights and other violent acts. Document what ethnicity is involved and if you can, who instigated. There you go!

B17a

09-03-2004, 08:06 AM

Here we go! We need some reports like this from the club goers, once we get a large enough sample, we can confidently say that us coloured folk are fucking shit up or us coloured folk are falsely labled.

Date: Fri Sep 3 05:21:07 2004
Subject: Stabbing at Coyotes Bar
From: Duty Inspector

-----BEGIN MD5 -----------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

At 2:30 am on September 03, 2004, a fight broke out inside
Coyotes Bar at 1088 Olympic Way SE. The parties were
seperated and ejected from the bar. Once outside a 39 year
old male was attacked by an unknown male, and stabbed with a
knife in the chest area. The victim was rushed to the
Foothills Hospital were he underwent emergency surgery. He
has since been moved to ICU and is listed in critical
condition.

The investigation is ongoing as police attempt to identify
the suspect.

googe

09-03-2004, 08:25 AM

hmm well i dunno now, buddy was wearing a turban and with only 1 other guy. does this fit the profile of a trouble maker? he obviously didnt look like a gang member and 2 of them causing trouble are gonna get their asses kicked. the fact the bouncer said "we have an image to maintain" is pretty blatant.

if they are going to argue its done to protect them from weapons and gangs, id rather not agree or disagree with it, but i can understand it might be a tough situation.

if its to maintain image, thats a crock of shit, and in a lot of cases it really seems that way?

here is the global article since no one has posted it yet: http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/soundoff/story.html?id=9cf3efb3-2bdd-4492-86a1-0b74c2867d93

Wednesday, September 01, 2004

Global News Script:

A Global News investigation has uncovered problems with discrimination at Calgary nightclubs.

People have been telling us they're regularly turned away from bars and nightclubs because of their colour.

Global News decided to go undercover with a hidden camera to put those accusations to the test.

"I can't believe this sort of situation is happening in this day and age I think we've come so far and to see this happening is very disgusting."

When Vancouverite Jaspal Randhawa visits Calgary, he doesn't always get the western welcome our city is known for.

The 30-year old East Indian was here during Stampede -- he claims because of his skin color and his turban he was turned away from three popular nightclubs.

He reacted by lodging human rights complaints against Tequila, The Mynte and Tantra.

"The bouncer pretty much came out and told me -- it's Cowtown it's Stampede weekend I'm sorry I can't let you into the club we have an image to maintain I could lose my job if I let you in."

Despite his encounters -- Randhawa returned to our city a couple of Saturdays ago. He agreed to wear a hidden microphone while Global's camera rolled from a discreet location.

He and his friend Navdeep Singh Parmar attempted to get into five night spots -- at four, they were allowed in. But here's what we caught on tape at Tantra:

"Hey guys -- Are you on the guest list tonight guys? Guest list? No. Guest list only tonight guys. Guest list? What guest list."

Randhawa insists on speaking to someone in charge -- but is given the same excuse.

"I'm not playing any f***ing games with you guys. Hey why you getting mad? Because you're really bothering me out here. I'm bothering you?"

As the conversation carries on -- people are being allowed in with no resistance -- some aren't even being questioned about being on this "so called" guest list.

A young woman overhearing the dialogue interjects -- wondering if she too will be denied access.

"If you're not on a guest list you can't get in..pardon? (bouncer nods yes) so don't wait in line if you're not on the guest list. Go back to the back to see if you're on the guest list back there. Oh so she can go to the back and line up to see if she's on the guest list."

The situation begins to escalate when another doorman gets involved.

"Let me explain this to you guys this is a private club technically you need a membership to get in. "

That's not true -- this establishment is open to the public and cannot deny access to a non-member.

According the human rights act -- if a club wants to consider itself membership only it has to operate that way 7 days a week -- this nightclub doesn't.

"Get off my f***ing step."

The situation then turns physical.

"It matters to me. It doesn't. It matters to me. Get off my f***ing step. I said it matters to me. Get off my step (shoves him) Did you just push me. Yes I did. Go call your fucking lawyer just get the f*** outta here."

"I think there is a very good reason to have this investigated people have a right to be offended when they see this sort of thing happening and it shouldn't be happening in Calgary."

We showed the tape to a human rights and civil liberties lawyer.

"The rules seem to be changing as we go along here."

"What we saw was a smokescreen."

"I think they've got some explaining to do to the public to the Alberta Human Rights Commission and I believe the Minister of Human Rights should be on this asking all the relevant questions."

We put those questions to the club's owner. Paul Vickers watched the tape and two days later he gave us this explanation.

"One of the fellas that was trying to get in was picked from our guy our manager picked him to be a known criminal element from Vancouver -- he thought he was some guy named Buddha and they didn't want to let him in."

But neither of the men have criminal records and Vancouver police told global they have no knowledge of a known criminal referred to as "Buddha."

The event we caught on tape doesn't appear to be an isolated incident. Several other people of different ethnic backgrounds contacted us with similar discriminating stories.

"I've gone to the bars myself and faced the same situation and it's lies upon lies whatever they have to say to keep you out of the bar."

"For people to sit back and say this isn't happening they should be ashamed of themselves."

And Jill Croteau has more on the story tonight.

As you saw in the end of my story -- a lot of people say this is nothing new -- they've been dealing with these barriers almost every time they hit a club.

Tomorrow on global news we'll show you what happened when we revealed what we caught on tape to a room full of young people from different ethnic backgrounds.

Also in the coming days we'll hear from Calgary bar owners who acknowledge this discrimination problem exists.

If you want to see the entire un-edited version of what our cameras caught on tape tune into the global news morning edition tomorrow at 7:50 a.m.

ZorroAMG

09-03-2004, 09:11 AM

Haha, Vickers is such a fucking idiot, I have always said so and always will...

I think bouncers like that should be shot....Two EI's, one with a turban?? I can understand if like 5 guys went up cause 5 white guys alone would get turned away too but c'mon, that's just a racist asshole making $5/hour thinking he's god for a bit..:banghead:

googe

09-03-2004, 09:35 AM

heh, one of the global comments...

Name: Serena
Occupation: Homemaker
Location:
Race is not the only problem, weight for these places is also a issue. I have read some peoples post on "They don't want gangs etc in their clubs "Well what about the over weight people. I went to one of these clubs mentioned and my sister could"nt get in because as the bouncer said " We have a private party going on here" Mean while I was already waiting in the club for her. She told them that and then told her that she was not dressed properly!!! She was dressed in evening attire that was both nice and classy!! These places are a joke, seems like only the so -called beautiful people are allowed to not only work there but also only beautiful people are allowed to drink there! Its about time scum like owners are shown what the truly are made of!

Its pretty bold theyve done it this long, surprised no one said anything sooner...

Johnny@CustomAuto

09-03-2004, 11:00 AM

Ok, I haven't commented for a while so here's my take. I do agree with the fact that most "minorities" do fight with weapons. It would seem correct that most asians fight in groups with weapons, and white people mostly do not. But there are some that do, something no one can deny. It is sad that these people have to ruin the fun for others.

But... and, you knew there was a BUT. There has to be a better way of filtering out the punks, than to reject a whole group of people based on their color!! I mean c'mon seriously. Is this the best way? Is it the right way? No it's not. Set up cameras, take notes. Scan ID's. Police can always mark the people with criminal records with assaults or whatever on their name. You shit disturb a club once, you get tagged. Every club in the city should be on the same system. What else are those bar codes for, on our ID's?

Back to that Global story. Googe makes a great point! One fairly small looking East Indian male with his one friend. Man, they did not look threatening at all. Seriously, they didn't. Now if Global used 5 Asians, dressed in black with dyed bank and dragon z ball hair, it would be a little different. The bouncer was quoted something that can be used to convict his employer. He right out said "We have an image to maintain". What image is this? The image that its a safe club because these 2 East Indians look threatening? Or maybe a guy with a turban in Tantra is unacceptable to them. Either way, it was obviously blantant discrimination on their part.

googe

09-03-2004, 11:14 AM

50 bucks says vickers is just going to pay the guy with real evidence to just stfu :D

GTS Jeff

09-03-2004, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by googe
heh, one of the global comments...

Its pretty bold theyve done it this long, surprised no one said anything sooner... haha somehow i dont think thats quite so much an issue.

googe

09-03-2004, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
haha somehow i dont think thats quite so much an issue.

oh i didnt mean the no-fat people being bold, i meant everything together, if you blatantly limit people in your establishment to hot white people, people tend to bust out the weight/beauty/race/smell/disability/whatever cards they were dealt pretty quickly :)

roopi

09-03-2004, 12:28 PM

"One of the fellas that was trying to get in was picked from our guy our manager picked him to be a known criminal element from Vancouver -- he thought he was some guy named Buddha and they didn't want to let him in."

Crazy Buddha's in town from Van City don't let him in. Him and his Turban friend are going to shoot the place up!!! Damn East Indians! Go back to Surrey!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ZorroAMG

09-03-2004, 12:36 PM

^^ I KNOW!!! Damn that buddha, Vickers is right....LOL HOW DARE any EI's try to go clubbing and have fun and mack chicks????

wildrice

09-03-2004, 06:09 PM

i couldn't find it, but i remember someone posted here saying that u don't see white ppl stabbing others and they usually use fists. blah blah blah

well guess what

just last night, a 39 yr old "White" guy stabbed an asian at coyotes

wildrice

09-03-2004, 06:10 PM

wait nm, i think it was cowboys
one of the two, can't remember

saiyajin

09-03-2004, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by wildrice
wait nm, i think it was cowboys
one of the two, can't remember

Originally posted by B17a
Here we go! We need some reports like this from the club goers, once we get a large enough sample, we can confidently say that us coloured folk are fucking shit up or us coloured folk are falsely labled.

Date: Fri Sep 3 05:21:07 2004
Subject: Stabbing at Coyotes Bar
From: Duty Inspector

-----BEGIN MD5 -----------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

At 2:30 am on September 03, 2004, a fight broke out inside
Coyotes Bar at 1088 Olympic Way SE. The parties were
seperated and ejected from the bar. Once outside a 39 year
old male was attacked by an unknown male, and stabbed with a
knife in the chest area. The victim was rushed to the
Foothills Hospital were he underwent emergency surgery. He
has since been moved to ICU and is listed in critical
condition.

The investigation is ongoing as police attempt to identify
the suspect.

hjr

09-03-2004, 06:34 PM

DAMN ASIANS, always getting in the way of knives!!!

(j/k, obviously)

finboy

09-03-2004, 06:34 PM

wildrice

09-03-2004, 06:35 PM

shiet...my bad

ryder_23

09-03-2004, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by davidI

That's funny cause I go to Cowboy just about every thursday during the school year for the last 2 years and have never seen a weapon pulled yet

Thats funny, i've been going there alot (i'm ashamed to say, but when ur in school 25cent draft sounds good), and i've seens knives pulled numerous times. First time i went actually, i saw a guy pull a knife on a group of bouncers. Needless to say within 1/2 second, the knife was on the ground, and the guy was being dragged behind cowboys.

BTW, they were all caucasian males....

Toma

09-03-2004, 07:01 PM

These comments are coming from a bouncer and bartender of 12 years (me), so take it for what it's worth....

You HAVE to be a racist. Otherwise, your club will go to shit. You get your normal skirmishes, a couple guys go at it, no biggie. But say your club has 12 doormen, and one drunk bitch of a colored male gets into a fight cause he has 30 of his buds with him. Chaos man. Chaos.

And it happens every fucking time. YOu get a group of colored people together, they "tribe up" together, and their hostility and tension level rises. You will notice them clustering into one area of the room. Once they have "control" of an area, they are quite menacing to "non tribe" members passing through. God help you if you bump into them.

While working the clubs, I have had 7 coworkers stabbed, and been shot at 4 times. The stabbings were done 3 times by asians, 4 times by browns. Of the shootings, a 2 were asian, one was brown and one was a cowboy lol. But the cowboy was in a "black" bar and got tossed, then he got a gun from his truck and came back.

People are tribal by nature. That's why we have racism and nationalism. Bar owners don't do it to be assholes, they do it because the problem is real, and theya re in the business, lets face it, to make easy money. And what do you think happens when an innocent patron is hurt IN YOUR bar during a fight?

Clubs cannot afford to have 100 doormen for a club that holds 1000 people.

YES, some bars take it too extreme (roadhouse efused my good friend who is black, and his white buddy) and they were by themselves.

A GOOD experienced Doorman can spot the "type" that is potentially a trouble maker, regardless of colour, but as you said, the wages in the industry average about $12/hour plus tips, so you ain't gonna get the brightest of the bunch. There was a small group of us "older" guys that are good at what we do, but we command $100 to $200 cash per night (depending how rough the bar is), and bar owners have a hard time paying that when your talking at least 10 guys.

Toma

403Gemini

09-04-2004, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Toma
These comments are coming from a bouncer and bartender of 12 years (me), so take it for what it's worth....

You HAVE to be a racist. Otherwise, your club will go to shit. You get your normal skirmishes, a couple guys go at it, no biggie. But say your club has 12 doormen, and one drunk bitch of a colored male gets into a fight cause he has 30 of his buds with him. Chaos man. Chaos.

And it happens every fucking time. YOu get a group of colored people together, they "tribe up" together, and their hostility and tension level rises. You will notice them clustering into one area of the room. Once they have "control" of an area, they are quite menacing to "non tribe" members passing through. God help you if you bump into them.

While working the clubs, I have had 7 coworkers stabbed, and been shot at 4 times. The stabbings were done 3 times by asians, 4 times by browns. Of the shootings, a 2 were asian, one was brown and one was a cowboy lol. But the cowboy was in a "black" bar and got tossed, then he got a gun from his truck and came back.

People are tribal by nature. That's why we have racism and nationalism. Bar owners don't do it to be assholes, they do it because the problem is real, and theya re in the business, lets face it, to make easy money. And what do you think happens when an innocent patron is hurt IN YOUR bar during a fight?

Clubs cannot afford to have 100 doormen for a club that holds 1000 people.

YES, some bars take it too extreme (roadhouse efused my good friend who is black, and his white buddy) and they were by themselves.

A GOOD experienced Doorman can spot the "type" that is potentially a trouble maker, regardless of colour, but as you said, the wages in the industry average about $12/hour plus tips, so you ain't gonna get the brightest of the bunch. There was a small group of us "older" guys that are good at what we do, but we command $100 to $200 cash per night (depending how rough the bar is), and bar owners have a hard time paying that when your talking at least 10 guys.

Toma

shiet its a revelation... 2 posts i agree with u toma. i think i might start liking you lol

yea ive been to cowboys and seen a buncha people try and start shit with bouncers or other patrons, and as toma put it, it seems most coloured people tend to "tribe up" (i like that man, thats classic)

then you have scrawny white boys like me and ryder who get stuck in the middle = us stabbed

i also agree with what neeper said, if a coupla dudes (2-3) just look like there are there to have a good time fuck let em in , but if they are all thugged out with their jetson hair style, dresed in all black pretending to be part of the mafia, dont even give em a chance

my usual bar attire is dress shirt, straight leg jeans, and black boots and ive had next to no problems gettin into clubs (next to say not being allowed in at outlaws cause it was me and a coupla buddies and no chicks... and this was when we were under 21 haha)

Davide

09-04-2004, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by wildrice
i couldn't find it, but i remember someone posted here saying that u don't see white ppl stabbing others and they usually use fists. blah blah blah

well guess what

just last night, a 39 yr old "White" guy stabbed an asian at coyotes Hey I had to pick up a friend of mine at the Coyotes. As soon as I pulled out I seen a guy laid out on the corner...thought to myself, dumb f*** go drink some more. Minutes later EMS shows up, wheels him away and then five CPS vehicles pull up. Me being the only coherant one I get questioned, but I didn't see shit.

As for the other "discrimination" issue, I think the bars really need to be more "visual" about thier guestlists, 25+, ladies til 10 ect, but certain places like the whiskey have signs that have been there since they opened "25 and over"(its clear as day) if your not 25 go elsewhere. For the people that get into these bars without being 25+, simple they use cash. Why do none of these "discriminatees" use this like everyone else? too cheap?(I know I am, that why I dont go). If I get turned down f*** it, like Ben said over priced under quality drinks....find a house party...or go to another bar.

If im correct Calgary is 2nd(next to Toronto) of Bars=population

no offence to the EI community, Im of ethnic background aswell, but to say the least I have no interest in going to redneck bars....bunch of white guys in cowboy hats>brown guy in a turban(wheres waldo?).Its like a white guy going to NYLA. Its not to say you dont belong, but do yourself a favor, and ask yourself, "do I want to be the center of attention?