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View Full Version : Iraq is Gonna get thier ASS KICKED



Ben
11-12-2002, 11:25 AM
Well, after 11 years of holding sadamms Hand, it finally looks like the Americans have had it...

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/12/iraq.un/index.html

Davan
11-12-2002, 11:57 AM
Good 'ol Dubya... :D

bol
11-12-2002, 12:09 PM
I wonder who's going to have the balls to use unconventional weapons? The US? I think not.

G
11-12-2002, 12:23 PM
Gas masks at the Spy Shop going for $79.95

Ben
11-12-2002, 12:48 PM
Bought one with five replacable canisters at Crown Surplus for 50 bucks

Davetronz
11-12-2002, 01:06 PM
KAAAAAAAAAABBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
I got my gas mask too!

RSeXy
11-12-2002, 01:13 PM
WTF? you guys are freaking me out!

driven
11-12-2002, 01:21 PM
"Iraq is gonna get their ass kicked"

no no i think you got this wrong, the INNOCENT civilians of Iraq are going to become victems of America's quest for oil. Just watch how many are innocently killed on the streets of Baghdad. On top of that, the US claims they want to improve relations with Arab nations -- haha, they have no clue what the effect of attacking Iraq wil really be. The US can do all it wants for "homeland security" but what they dont realize is that they are trying to cure the result not the cause, terrorist attacts are the RESULT of American foreign policy. By attacking Iraq they are only "soaking" their foreign policy in more blood, and are only going to further anger moderate Arabs -- leading to many more terrorist plots to attack. No one in this world doubts Saddam Husseins evil intentions, and just because Bush's daddy couldnt finish the job 10 years ago, the US is going to fuck up big time by going back in. Sure they will get Saddam and the oil they're after, but they have no clue what attacking Iraq will really entail.. I havent even started to say what I really feel just raw emotion, I have so many more important facts and arguments against attacking Iraq. Ask yourself this: How do we even know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Becuase big ol' Bush tells us? okay.. thanks

max_boost
11-12-2002, 01:21 PM
Interesting......:eek:

max_boost
11-12-2002, 01:23 PM
What would it be like if the middle east had no oil? :confused:

Redlyne_mr2
11-12-2002, 01:25 PM
The US is going to experience another "9/11" and once again the ignorant americans are going to ask why???..fucking idiots:thumbsdow

Redlyne_mr2
11-12-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by driven
"Iraq is gonna get their ass kicked"

no no i think you got this wrong, the INNOCENT civilians of Iraq are going to become victems of America's quest for oil. Just watch how many are innocently killed on the streets of Baghdad. On top of that, the US claims they want to improve relations with Arab nations -- haha, they have no clue what the effect of attacking Iraq wil really be. The US can do all it wants for "homeland security" but what they dont realize is that they are trying to cure the result not the cause, terrorist attacts are the RESULT of American foreign policy. By attacking Iraq they are only "soaking" their foreign policy in more blood, and are only going to further anger moderate Arabs -- leading to many more terrorist plots to attack. No one in this world doubts Saddam Husseins evil intentions, and just because Bush's daddy couldnt finish the job 10 years ago, the US is going to fuck up big time by going back in. Sure they will get Saddam and the oil they're after, but they have no clue what attacking Iraq will really entail.. I havent even started to say what I really feel just raw emotion, I have so many more important facts and arguments against attacking Iraq. Ask yourself this: How do we even know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Becuase big ol' Bush tells us? okay.. thanks
:werd: :werd:

RSeXy
11-12-2002, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by max_boost
What would it be like if the middle east had no oil? :confused:


Alberta would be hella thriving...or we would have to use another form of energy??? :confused:


haha...i never listened in social studies. :dunno:

finboy
11-12-2002, 01:36 PM
I got my gas mask. its all good.

Redlyne_mr2
11-12-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by finboy
I got my gas mask. its all good.
until they use biological weapons and/or bombs

finboy
11-12-2002, 01:54 PM
...

Damn it!

Toma
11-12-2002, 02:53 PM
PLEASE READ.....

I have followed the US's exploits for years, and am a strong critic of US foreign policy.

The US has killed OVER 1 MILLION iraqi children since the gulf war. The bombs they drop on Iraq almost DAILY is no longer reported or news worthy. We occasionally see a headline here or there "Iraqi anit-missile site bombed after US plane were targeted". Note, hardly ever is a shot fired by the Iraqis.

The US put Hussein in power.

Prior to the US attack, Iraqis were MORE EDUCATED then Americans, had higher literacy rates, and had infant mortality equal to most of the western world. Now the kids are dying directly due to US sanctions at a rate of 5,000 per month. This is the reason that 2 years ago, many countried disobeyed sanctions and sent valuable medical aid (France, Italy, Russia, Belgium), alonf with organizations such as Doctor Without Borders, Red Cross etc.

The US has destroyed essential Iraqi infrastructure, water treatment plants, medical facilities etc. On the sanctions list the US rammed through with their political and econmic influnece are items suchs as:
1) Pencils (presumably, they don't want the Iraqis learning how to read and write)
2) School books (see above)
3) Morphine (Iraqi civilians are not human and do not require pain killer for surgery)
4) Anti-biotics (Again, Iraqis are super human and are immune to germs)
5) Chlorine (for water treatment - Iraqis do not require clean water - hence why the US bombed water treatment plants and pipelines)

And about a thousand other things that are on the list to purposely MAKE THE PEOPLE SUFFER, including medical equipment.

The oil for food program was always delayed by beurocrats in New York.

The US's barbaric policy has been to get rid of Saddam by making civilians suffer. That did not work, so now they want to bomb again. An act of war, illegal under ANY International law.

The US Govt is the biggest terrorist and murderer on the planet.

Ask my family in Yugoslavia, who spent 16 hours per day in bomb shelters, without water, heat or electricity because they lived right smack in the middle of what the US called a legit miltary target (across the street from a park, in the middle of a downtown residential apartment complex).

This is the tip of the ice berg.

You should check out info on Chile (most of south Amercia for that matter)..... Banana republic ring a bell?

If you do not know a lot of the background personally, please do some research, read articles by Naom Chomsky (MIT prof in the US), etc. LOOK INTO it, and don't let the media brainwash you into thinking slaughtering civliains by the tens of thousands is ever acceptable.

Toma

E36M3
11-12-2002, 02:57 PM
Well, we checked the receipt, duh.

The true answer is that the United States, Russia and other nations supplied Iraq wiht the weapons that it has, as well as the technological sophistication to continue to develop arms.

Trade among Iraq and other nations such as Syria, Iran, etc. has also resulted in a lot of weapons being brought in.

It has been shown many times by U.N. inspection teams that Iraq has vast stores of unconventional (and conventional) arms, and that is the issue. It isn't mearly the U.S. saying 'trust us, they have lots of shit'.


[i] Ask yourself this: How do we even know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Becuase big ol' Bush tells us? okay.. thanks [/B]

Toma
11-12-2002, 02:57 PM
PS, Iraq is zero threat to the US.

They may or not have a nuclear weapon, but they CANNOT DELIVER it to Isreal, let alone to the US.

The US makes much bigger accusation, but never presents any real proof.

Toma

Ben
11-12-2002, 03:00 PM
Either which way, the title of this thread still stands, and note I made no comment of the consequenses...Bush will do his thing, wreck this and destroy that, but there will be alot of people against it, for it, and retaliations likewise.

Toma
11-12-2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by E36M3
Well, we checked the receipt, duh.

The true answer is that the United States, Russia and other nations supplied Iraq wiht the weapons that it has, as well as the technological sophistication to continue to develop arms.

Trade among Iraq and other nations such as Syria, Iran, etc. has also resulted in a lot of weapons being brought in.

It has been shown many times by U.N. inspection teams that Iraq has vast stores of unconventional (and conventional) arms, and that is the issue. It isn't mearly the U.S. saying 'trust us, they have lots of shit'.



This is DEAD wrong. there were 3 weapons inspectrs that resigned because the US was causing a scandal, andusing the inspection teams to spy on Iraq's internal business. These same inspecors went on record saying there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

WHEN Iraq booted the rest of the inspectors, they REQUESTED a new inspection team from an independant country WITH NO AMERICANS. The US rejected this cause somehow, the US thinks it is above the law, and runs the world on its own.

Toma

E36M3
11-12-2002, 03:10 PM
A nation under U.N. sanction has no right to demand anything in terms of inspections. The United States will of course have representation among the inspection teams.

Having 3 people resign out of the dozens and dozens of inspectors involved is not proof of anything, one way or another.

The truth is that you cannot trust what the U.S. says or what Iraq says at face value. Iraq is obviously a rogue state, and will not continue to function for much longer. The Saddam regime is on its last legs, and will be replaced by something else.

I am not arguing for/against Iraq, only stating the obvious.

The inspectors *going on record* is uselless, because they obviously did not personally inspect all of Iraq. Taking them at their word (and I highly doubt they even said that, it sounds like propaganda to me) would be stupid, that is all there is to it.

The U.S. is above the law, and anyone who questions that is kidding themselves. They can and will do whatever it takes to protect their interests, and I don't blame them.


Originally posted by Toma


This is DEAD wrong. there were 3 weapons inspectrs that resigned because the US was causing a scandal, andusing the inspection teams to spy on Iraq's internal business. These same inspecors went on record saying there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

WHEN Iraq booted the rest of the inspectors, they REQUESTED a new inspection team from an independant country WITH NO AMERICANS. The US rejected this cause somehow, the US thinks it is above the law, and runs the world on its own.

Toma

finboy
11-12-2002, 03:19 PM
the way i see it, there has always been 1 country that was the most powerful.

the roman empire, the english, etc.

they all collapsed, and america will eventually too. hell, america's popularity is lower than it has been in the last 100 years.

IMHO, there will be a power shift from america, to another country in the next 100 years or less.

my guess is china will be the next leading power.

E36M3
11-12-2002, 03:27 PM
That hs often been the case, and I definately agree that there are a lot of signs pointing to the demise of the U.S.

Who knows though.. with something on that long of a timeline, I guess you have to sit back and watch the show.


Originally posted by finboy
the way i see it, there has always been 1 country that was the most powerful.

the roman empire, the english, etc.

they all collapsed, and america will eventually too. hell, america's popularity is lower than it has been in the last 100 years.

IMHO, there will be a power shift from america, to another country in the next 100 years or less.

my guess is china will be the next leading power.

Toma
11-12-2002, 03:35 PM
The U.S. is above the law, and anyone who questions that is kidding themselves. They can and will do whatever it takes to protect their interests, and I don't blame them.

Exactly! The problem is that the US is NOT the most powerfull country in the world, their Gov't just acts like they are.

It is the most ROGUE state on the planet. It is the most likely to use nuclear weapons.

In a conventional war, the US would lose to:
Russia, India, China, and any combination of a "team" of several smaller countries.

The only reason the US is seen as "superior" is because of its blatant disregard for rules of war (cluster bombs, DU ammo, chemical weapons, civilian targets and infrastructure), and its willingness to do whatever it takes to win (murder civilians, use nuclear weapons, use chemical weapons etc).

Iraq is no threat to the world. The US is, and people are starting to recognize that.

In a civilized world, there should be a international court of law whos rules and ruling are respected (the US has numerous rulings against it).

You can treat your power in two different ways. Be a bully. Or with humility.

Toma

E36M3
11-12-2002, 03:44 PM
Interesting thoughts on military superiority. Unfortunately, military strategists, and the world in general do not agree with you.

In order for China and other nations to 'beat' the U.S., they would somehow have to get a large enough number of their forces on U.S. soil to invade. In an unconventional war, the strategic positions that the U.S. has around the world are without precedence.

Stating that the U.S. is not the most powerful nation in the world is pretty ridiculous. I went to school, I have read the left wing propaganda out of Chomsky and others, but somehow I don't think they qualify as military experts. In order to learn the truth, you must consider more than one point of view. Academics who have not been outside of the 'bubble' of academia sound great on paper, but their arguments are usually paper thin. Conversely, assholes like George W. are even less trust worthy.

The U.S. is the world leading nation economically and from a military standpoint. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anyone would think otherwise.


Originally posted by Toma


Exactly! The problem is that the US is NOT the most powerfull country in the world, their Gov't just acts like they are.

It is the most ROGUE state on the planet. It is the most likely to use nuclear weapons.

In a conventional war, the US would lose to:
Russia, India, China, and any combination of a "team" of several smaller countries.

The only reason the US is seen as "superior" is becasue of its blatant disregard for rules of war (cluster bombs, DU ammo), and its willingness to do wahtever it takes to win (murder civilians, us nuclear weapons, use chemical weapons etc).

Iraq is no threat to the world. The US is, and people are strating to recognize that.

In a civilized world, ther should be a internation court of law whos rules and ruling are respected (the US has numerous rulings against it).

You can treat your power in two different ways. Be a bully. Or with humility.

Toma

Ben
11-12-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by finboy
the way i see it, there has always been 1 country that was the most powerful.

the roman empire, the english, etc.

they all collapsed, and america will eventually too. hell, america's popularity is lower than it has been in the last 100 years.

IMHO, there will be a power shift from america, to another country in the next 100 years or less.

my guess is china will be the next leading power.

I'll be long dead and buried

Aleks
11-12-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Toma
PLEASE READ.....

Ask my family in Yugoslavia, who spent 16 hours per day in bomb shelters, without water, heat or electricity because they lived right smack in the middle of what the US called a legit miltary target (across the street from a park, in the middle of a downtown residential apartment complex).

Toma

What part of Yugo are you from?

I remember my parents trying to get a hold of our family back home for days on end worrying...during Nato attacks.

Aleks

Toma
11-12-2002, 03:52 PM
Economically?? Maybe. Out of my range of experience or knowledge. I do know that If you disregard the top and bottom 10% of the population, there are countries who are richer per capita. I won't argue this, don't know enough about the rest.

Militarily? Well, the US's isolation keeps its safe from pokes from its neighbors. But if accessability is your arguement, then it works both ways.

But I guess the real point is, that it is much more likely for the US to go out and attack someone on their soil, then it is the other way around. They have continualy proved that they are the aggressor adn bully.

If a war with China happens, I will give you a 10:1 bet that the US will attack China on its own soil first. Then the Chinese MAY strike back, but will have no problem defeating any invading US force (conventional).

With Nukes....all bets are off.

Toma
11-12-2002, 03:54 PM
Father is from Montenegro, mother is from Serbia. I was born in Beograd (Belgrade to the westerners), we moved here when I was 8, and visited many times since.

Gives you a different perspective doesn't it ???

Toma

Aleks
11-12-2002, 03:57 PM
It sure does.
I was born in Podgorica and lived there until I was 14, then we moved here.
Aleks

legendboy
11-12-2002, 04:07 PM
What happened to Afganistan when the US chased out the Taliban? Seemed like most were glad, and were aware of the benifits of not having that goverment. I think the same will happen with Iraq....

This all runs deeper anyways, the extremests will always bring it back to US supporting Israel...

Toma
11-12-2002, 04:11 PM
Your kidding right?

I can't even count the number of coupe attempts SINCE the US attack.

The only happy people are the ones that newly have found themselves in power (and suddenly very rich). The civilains who are/were starving certainly did not applaud when the US bombed the Red Cross compound TWICE (by accident of course ;) ), and forced them from their homes....

Toma


Originally posted by legendboy
What happened to Afganistan when the US chased out the Taliban? Seemed like most were glad, and were aware of the benifits of not having that goverment. I think the same will happen with Iraq....

This all runs deeper anyways, the extremests will always bring it back to US supporting Israel...

mwmhong
11-12-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Toma


In a conventional war, the US would lose to:
Russia, India, China, and any combination of a "team" of several smaller countries.

Toma


China has alot of well-trained troops, but they have a negligible air force and navy and very poor logisitcs, so they're going nowhere. Most of their heavy armor is outdated from the 50's and 60's, basically leftovers from Russia, but they are modernizing.
US has much bigger/better tech/airforce/naval support=big pile of PLA bodies.

India=Another big pile of bodies.

Russia, yes, they still pose the greatest conventional threat to the US, but they have 1/50th (??) of the military budget of the US. They did run neck-and-neck with the US during the Cold War but each side has drastically reduced their armed forces since that era, so I don't know about the Russians nowadays, but in terms of pure numbers in the air force and navy, they have to be close, maybe not as modern or well-maintained.

Russia+India+China would probably stomp the US though.

Zephyr
11-12-2002, 05:48 PM
gas masks r no use... it only blocks for ur lungs, but dont forget ur pores breathe so ur skin is exposed to the chemicals, so u basicaly have very very small protection.

the white house should of accepted the 1 on 1 challenge made by the Iraq vice president that Hussein and Bush should have a gun duel.... they probably kill each other at the same time, thus solving problems for both nations...

Toma
11-12-2002, 05:55 PM
Every war the United States has fought has been with the use of conventional weapons.

Really? The civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki will disagree with you.

Toma

M68KACIA
11-12-2002, 05:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by max_boost
What would it be like if the middle east had no oil?

Well, I suppose that everybody could change their performance car to hybrid (or alternative fuel - hydrogen) car, such as honda insight....or other 0 emission vehicles.....

something to ponder: GTR with battery operated engine....hmmm???:confused: :confused: :

werd:

max_boost
11-12-2002, 05:56 PM
Saddam would probably beat the shit out of Bush!!:guns:

max_boost
11-12-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Toma


Really? The civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki will disagree with you.

Toma


Don't forget the Vietnam war too

Zephyr
11-12-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by max_boost
Saddam would probably beat the shit out of Bush!!:guns:

who cares who wins.. they both suck lets hope they both die...

Toma
11-12-2002, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by max_boost



Don't forget the Vietnam war too

Yeah, but I figured with the mentality of some people on here, they may actaully think napalm, nerve gas, biological agents, cluster bombs etc are all "conventional" as well. In which case, the US used these in a lot more places then just Vietnam.

mwmhong
11-12-2002, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Toma


Yeah, but I figured with the mentality of some people on here, they may actaully think napalm, nerve gas, biological agents, cluster bombs etc are all "conventional" as well. In which case, the US used these in a lot more places then just Vietnam.

Isn't 'conventional' weaponry anything that isn't bio/chem/nuke?

So, naplam and cluster bombs would thus be considered conventional, along with Fuel Air Explosives.

ninjak84
11-12-2002, 07:05 PM
Canada gets a grand total of 0% of its' oil from the middle east.
The USA gets 5% of its oil from the middle east.
The only place that suffers from a "no oil" situation in the middle east is Europe, as the rely almost 100% on it.

These figures are from a study concluded this year, and are accurate

Redlyne_mr2
11-12-2002, 08:49 PM
The scariest thing is that were so close to the US and when they get attacked our economy, our way of life and out safety is jeopardized, I agree with everything Toma has mentioned. The only thing I give the US government props for is being able to hide its true identity so well and make the american people believe in lies:confused: :thumbsdow

finboy
11-12-2002, 09:12 PM
FOCK, my post just killed itself.

oh well.
SUMMARY:
it basically said how the american media is a puppet of the government now, and how it is used to say what the government can't (ie backlash on canada even after we have supported them AND they killed our troops).

propoganda similar to stalin's

encouraging the country but not covering all bases
"john walker lyn's sexuality brought up, had nothing to do with the case."
"dc shooter, served in gulf war, muslim so sept 11'th set him off :rolleyes: "

americans as a whole are cool people, but the government has blinded them

and

funny how americans gloat about their success, but when you bring up the facts they don't want to talk about it.
"vietnam"
"coming in at the last second to claim victory in ww1 and 2"

:thumbsup:

finboy
11-12-2002, 09:25 PM
oh good lord, check out these posts from a mainly american board:

"More bomb accuracy demonstrations in the near future. I guess that Saddam just doesn't learn from past experience. GW is not going to go easy on him like his George Sr. did. I just wish that some people would wise up and not mess with the USA. Don't they know that we can take anybody out at anytime. "

"actually the problem is, if we nuke him ,WE will feel and see and possibly die from the effects. We don't need nuclear bombs. This war is going ot be mostly fought on the ground. Thats what our troops have been training for. Guerilla warfare. Although I'm sure with Saddam, we will go in and shoot some missles at him like last time. Take out all his facilities this time, but its going to be scarry when all the sucide bombers and junk that are already in the US start coming out oif the wood work and killing americans!! I agree we need to do something to end them all, but I think Nuclear war fare will cause more problems than it will solve!

IMHO we need to get rid of all the bed wetters that are against racial profiling. just give them a STFU punch in the mouth. then we need tp take care of securing the homeland. while securing it we need to wanr Iraq that we will commence to bombing within however many hours and tell the citizens to GET THE FOCK OUT if the wanna live. Then we just bomb the ever living **** outta the place with everything but nuclear weapons. Once Irage is gone, we need to establish the USFI (United States of Former Iraq) Then do all kinds of mean thing to Saddam if hes not already dead"

"Once you roast 2 million or so of them in their own backyard, and see that we are ready to do it again and again until there are none of them left...That is some deterrent effect..."

and they wonder why their popularity is dead :rolleyes:

these people are really cool when you talk to them about cars, women, anything really.

but when you bring up what the gov't is doing...out comes the "we have big guns, so we are un-touchable"

E36M3
11-12-2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by finboy
funny how americans gloat about their success, but when you bring up the facts they don't want to talk about it.
"vietnam"
"coming in at the last second to claim victory in ww1 and 2"

:thumbsup:

You're either high or don't know what you are talking about. "coming in at the last second to claim victory"???

Are you nuts? Europe was having their nuts handed to them and the United States came in and saved them.

I'm not even American, but there can hardly be a question of the America contributions to WWI and WWII.

Jesus.

max_boost
11-12-2002, 10:24 PM
And that is why England will support the U.S regardless what the States do......the U.S saved England twice!!

driven
11-12-2002, 11:12 PM
Toma, I just want to say how nice it is to hear someone so informed and educated in regards to US foreign policy. I'm very sorry to hear all that your family has gone through, and on behalf of myself and the numerous others like me I thank you for contributing your valuable input and informing us about what our "best friends" down south have been up to.. thanks man.

finboy
11-13-2002, 12:25 AM
OK, perhaps i overstated.

but do you know why america entered both words (main reasons)?

ww1 - german's sunk one of the united states civilian cruize ships
ww2 - pearl harbor attacked

both times they were late into the war.
not attacking because they weren't harmed until those events.

now canada help in the "war on terrorism", but want no part of iraq, and we are cowards? :bullshit:

Toma
11-13-2002, 01:24 AM
LOL, I was banned from the Corral (a mainly american mustang message board) for my views. Later, they let me back into the technical forums, but I am to this day banned from the lounge. I was also told to shut up or be banned from Stangnet, so I stopped posting in the general section, and only post in the western canada sections.

Apparently, freedom is big in "speeches" with some Americans, but not in practice ;)

WW1 and 2 were extremely politically motivated wars. Its easy in retrospect to blame the German people for following Hitler. But we see a very similar behaviour and superiorty complex coming from some of our American neighbours.

As for WW2....hard to say what would have happened if the Amercans had not come in the west. I am sure hitler would have been defeated anyway, since the Russians had him on the run in the east already at about the same time, and the Brits and French were regrouping well. The American's help cannot be belittled, and countless lives were probably saved.

Anyway, for oyu guys interested in another perspective of world events besides CNN, check out http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm and read some of Chomsky's articles and interviews, as well as many others.

Also, an OK source of alternative news can be found at www.commondreams.org

Always question what you read, but at least this way, you get both far left and far right interpretations, and can choose what you believe is the middle ground.

Chomsky I trust. Sometimes his conclusions are a little far left, but his research of statistic, figures, events etc is impecable, and he will not write it if it isn't true. His facts and figures are unquestionable, but some of his conclusions can be tenacious.

Happy research ;)
Toma

kenny
11-13-2002, 02:14 AM
Would be interesting if China or someone else issues the same ultimatum to the United States: "dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, or war will be waged".

Damn wars... US is gonna take over the world soon, UN/Nato, all that crap will be useless as it'll be the US that runs the show. They pretty much do already since disregard anything the UN decides on.

van
11-13-2002, 02:23 AM
OMFG, serious this is going to happen? Fuck, call me when it does cause I'm going to smoke so much weed until the point that I won't care if I'm in ashes or not.

driven
11-13-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Benny
Either which way, the title of this thread still stands

sure, keep the title, it only makes you sound heartless, uneducated and ignorant of the world around you!

Toms-Celica
11-13-2002, 01:49 PM
Strong views on both sides...

Ben
11-13-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by driven


sure, keep the title, it only makes you sound heartless, uneducated and ignorant of the world around you!

Think what you want...I just thought I would open the debate with a good strong statement to get the ball rolling...what the hell else is there to talk about during the winter month on a car forum.

I'm not going to share all my views until I feel like it...


And saying I'm ignorant...They got beat down so badly in desert storm! I'm not heartltess...When I say Iraq, I'm refering to military Iraq, which I thought would be assumed as who would be all for killing innocent civilians?:dunno: I truely hope things get resolved in any case, because this instability in the middle east is very unsettling to the whole planets way of life.

Uneducated? haha, lets check diploma scored there bud...
:rofl:

Toma
11-13-2002, 03:11 PM
What instability? The one created by the US and the Isrealis?

;)

I have not seen Iraq cause any instability, In fact, when they invaded Kuwait, estimates put the number killed at less then 300! They also gave full warning that they WERE going to invade Kuwait due to economic disputes (Kuwait is a very small dictatorship, so no one cared at the time, but it was a great excuse to the Americans later). That's less people killed then the Americans killed when they invaded Panama a few years earlier......the only difference is, no one made the US promise to disarm over their acts of war. And no one put sanctions on the US that kill over 5000 children per month :D

Its the double standard I can't stand. International rules and law should apply and be abeyed by everyone, and the most "powerfull" nations should lead by example, not exception.

Good topic guys! Keep an open mind.
Toma

Toma
11-13-2002, 03:15 PM
Oh yeah.....in case you did not know, the US uses the Iraqis attack of the Kurds as "evidence" that Iraq is evil quite often. What you need to know is that in the late 80's, the US and Britain gave Iraq weapons and money to help them "fight" the rebel Kurds. AS we speak, and for the last decade, the US's friend Turkey has been using US supplied Apache gunships to kill, torture, and destroy its Kurdish citiznes, and their villages.

As many as 10,000 Kurd settlements have been burned to the ground, and over a million Kurds have been turned into refugees in Turkey. But of course, they don't count cause they are a memebr of Nato, and the rules apparantly do not apply to them either.

Toma

Ben
11-13-2002, 03:31 PM
Hey, I will be the first to admit that the US Government are the cause of alot of the worlds problems, heaven forbid they put thier greasy nose in everyones business...I'm sure as hell glad I'm not a part of that country one bit! I'm merely trying to put another side to everything as most of the points thus far seem more sided with the countries overseas and I think that it takes two to tango so to speak. The Iraqis seem to be stubborn, and the Americans, well, they are just being themselfs as always, si I though what the Hell, Debate time! Believe me when I say I agree with everything you have said Toma...Just putting some more lumber on the campfire...its been a while since we've had a good old fasioned Political Debate, Hense the reason I titled it as is.
:thumbsup:

finboy
11-13-2002, 03:35 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70231,00.html

B17a
11-13-2002, 04:09 PM
Toma, you're obviously well informed. What do you think of Saudi Arabia's stance on this and in general. I personally think they are the worse offenders for having a dictatorial state. Let's see, 3000 family members of the House of Saud (Royal Family). They are good friends with the US when it comes to business but refuse to take a firm stance when it comes to anything negative in the middle east. Looks to me like they play both sides of the fence.

driven
11-14-2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Benny


Uneducated? haha, lets check diploma scored there bud...
:rofl:

ok, sure.. which one? social studies? i got 95% on that one! lots of ppl here can attest to that..

dont talk bud im at one of the worlds best business schools..think about what you're doing before you comment

Ben
11-14-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by driven


ok, sure.. which one? social studies? i got 95% on that one! lots of ppl here can attest to that..

dont talk bud im at one of the worlds best business schools..think about what you're doing before you comment



Okay, have fun there gqlude, if this is what you enjoy doing, picking petty fights on the internet mr "Big Business School" man, have another one...
I thought I was pretty safe with my 96 diploma mark and 94 over all, so I'll give you that one...I am mature enough to admit a fault.

T5_X
11-15-2002, 04:21 AM
Does anyone recall what happened on Dec 7 last year? 100 Nobel Laureates (some of our planet's most brilliant minds) signed a paper basically on America's shitty foreign policy. What happened? North America turned its back. It wasn't mentioned in the media, the only place I found it in Canada was in the back of a Globe and Mail. Want a link? http://www.cam.net.uk/home/nimmann/peace/nobel.htm
Even this summer, when chretien mentioned something similar from this viewpoint, everyone boo-ed him. Shame on them.


Its incredibly sad to see how shitty the world is doing on the whole. Hold on tight, our lifestyles will be changed DRASTICALLY within all our lifetimes.

szw
11-15-2002, 05:01 AM
u guys are comparing social studies diploma results from high school..lol!

Ben
11-15-2002, 09:09 AM
hey, I'm only 19, what else can I compare?

driven
11-15-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by szw
u guys are comparing social studies diploma results from high school..lol!

yea i know its stupid but he brought itup and i figured with what hes doing with his time he probably didnt do that good on it anyways..

well benny you think im doign it online, in the summer if i ever see you we can continue this in person, and sorry to the rest of you i wasent trying to be a prick with my business school shit, i just wanted to show the kid i was goin somewhere with my life

Ben
11-15-2002, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by driven


yea i know its stupid but he brought itup and i figured with what hes doing with his time he probably didnt do that good on it anyways..

well benny you think im doign it online, in the summer if i ever see you we can continue this in person, and sorry to the rest of you i wasent trying to be a prick with my business school shit, i just wanted to show the kid i was goin somewhere with my life

I say we call this fucking joke a truce, you trolled over to beyond and started up with the retorts immediatly.

I'll shake your hand, say, "its all good", I'll appologise for being an asshole, and expect the same in return, sound fair? If you wanna sound all hard core like your gonna beat me up, especially the way you put it in that pm, thats fine man, have you seen me? I'll wreck you, so I just wanna be the happy go lucky guy that I am, be mature about it, I'll wish you best of luck with your bus school stuff (Economics is fuckin hard so Huge respect on that side man), and call it a day...arguing on the internet is so bloody stupid, and I know I am guilty of that and want to change that. I'm offering a clean and clear solution to this fiasco, and honestly, I dont have anything against you.

Sound like a plan?

The ball is in your court.:)

bksze
11-16-2002, 12:00 AM
just thought i'd add, i took a quick look at iraq's letter and in the first couple of paragraphs, they call Tony Blair the States "lackey" hahahaahaha, that's funny shit cuz it's so true!!!

RickDaTuner
11-16-2002, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by bksze
just thought i'd add, i took a quick look at iraq's letter and in the first couple of paragraphs, they call Tony Blair the States "lackey" hahahaahaha, that's funny shit cuz it's so true!!!

that damn britt dont know his tea from his shoe

BAN HIM!:thumbsdow