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Delta
09-11-2004, 10:53 PM
Hey, I am a 18 year old tall(6,2) skinny(155 lbs) white boy lol. I have a high metabolism, I can eat anything all day and not gain a pound, some of my friends are like this too. Does anybody have any tips, workout routines or good websites to visit. I don't want to be fat, just gain some muscle mass. Thanks alot.

[GaGe]
09-11-2004, 11:09 PM
you work your muscles hard to gain more mass. so work with something you can do like 5-10 reps with, and do 2 or 3 sets.

zc_boy
09-11-2004, 11:27 PM
pump the juice and eat your vitamins haha

BigH
09-11-2004, 11:29 PM
The most important thing is protein, you have to understand your muscle is made up of structural protein. So in order to gain more muscle you need to increase your protein intake.

Most important factor to muscle gain is the 20 minutes after your last set after you finish excercising. You have a 20 minute window where any protein you put into your body will automatically be used to increase your muscle mass. (i.e. eat meat meat meat, or sometimes protein bars (although not the best /healthiest source of protein) if you are on the go.

Eat carbs before you workout (natural sugars like in fruits, real fruit juice, rice, bread etc...) and eat protein AFTER workout.

You have to eat specifacally, not just anything and everything.

davidI
09-11-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by BigH
The most important thing is protein, you have to understand your muscle is made up of structural protein. So in order to gain more muscle you need to increase your protein intake.

Most important factor to muscle gain is the 20 minutes after your last set after you finish excercising. You have a 20 minute window where any protein you put into your body will automatically be used to increase your muscle mass. (i.e. eat meat meat meat, or sometimes protein bars (although not the best /healthiest source of protein) if you are on the go.

Eat carbs before you workout (natural sugars like in fruits, real fruit juice, rice, bread etc...) and eat protein AFTER workout.

You have to eat specifacally, not just anything and everything.

You have it semi-right. A lot of people suggest consuming protein before working out along with a high glycemic carb. A carb with a high GI will give you a quick energy boost and will prevent protein in your body from being synthesized for energy. High GI carbs will also provide you with an insulin spike that can be very beneficial in the absorbtion of creatine if you choose to use such a supplement. There is no '20 minute' window although BigH is right that you want to get protein in your body for while your muscles recover. You will want to avoid casein (milk protein) as it is absorbed more slowly than whey mixed with water for example. Good foods to eat include tuna, chicken, lean beef, rice, potatoes, beans, pasta, bread, and of course your fruits and veggies. The key for someone looking to bulk up is to eat A LOT.
Also, when you're lifting try going heavy and intense. Start with the general 8-12 reps/3-4 set routine and then after you have made some good gains try a 5x5 heavy routine for a couple of weeks. Check out www.wannabebigforums.com and do some research there and then come back and ask some more specific questions once you have gained some basic knowledge. :thumbsup:

1-Bar
09-12-2004, 12:02 AM
If your into hittin' the gym and working out. Have a protien shake after your workout, like BigH said you have a short window. I also recommend that you take a shake right beforfe you sleep.

Your muscles do most of the repair, the damage you did during excercise, at night. So having protien in your system before you sleep will allow you to feed them. Also, try to eat every 6 hours or less. After six hours w/o food, your body switches to internal sources for energy and protein is the first on the list.....namely your muscles.

GL :thumbsup:

grocko
09-12-2004, 12:13 AM
I always heard that eating mostly anything, especially proteins like any kind of nuts, right before you go to sleep helps to gain some weight...I

civic_rida
09-12-2004, 01:29 AM
hey 1-bar how much do u weigh.

Yea im tring wit a weight gainer be4 bed.

HIgh in carbs n calories:)

GT2NV
09-12-2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Delta
Hey, I am a 18 year old tall(6,2) skinny(155 lbs) white boy lol. I have a high metabolism, I can eat anything all day and not gain a pound, some of my friends are like this too. Does anybody have any tips, workout routines or good websites to visit. I don't want to be fat, just gain some muscle mass. Thanks alot.
hey you sound like me! lol i was 6,1 at 159 pounds, by taking 3 protien shakes a day N large brand, and eating 4-5 meals while taking loaded creatine, i got up to 185 pounds in 4 months were not hopeless it just takes a hell of alot more work... as well i was working out 5 times a week.... hope that helps, i as well have an insane metabolizm thats why i had to eat so much... but now from not eating as much through the summer i only weigh 170 now....:(

GT2NV
09-12-2004, 01:34 AM
btw pm me if you have any questions

civic_rida
09-12-2004, 01:38 AM
I think age has alot to do wit it. Ur metablism is very fast when your younger . Once ur over 21 Starts to slow down thats when you start puttin on size.

How many 18 year olds r 200 pounds all muscle.

Chim
09-12-2004, 10:42 AM
If you wanna get into the specifics...

I assumed you're moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days a week). To gain 1 pound a week you'll need 3365 calories a day. You'll also want a little bit over 155g protein a day. Go to www.fitday.com to find out your nutrient breakdown.

A good ratio for bulking is 40/40/20 carbs/protein/fat. 50/30/20 is fine as well. Fitday will calculate what your ratios are at.

Don't hate the skinny genes, they come in handy. I was 5'10" 130ish lbs in March, now I'm getting close to 165. I'm starting to notice a belly, plus a bit of fat around the waist. When the time comes to lose all this fat and get ripped, it'll be really easy for someone with skinny genetics.

Delta
09-12-2004, 11:25 AM
Thanks alot everybody, now I'm gunna eat right and drag my lazy ass to the gym and get down to business.

Mckenzie
09-12-2004, 08:38 PM
Here is an excellent article on what to eat and when to eat it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

NiteRider
09-12-2004, 09:07 PM
eat a cake a day!

davidI
09-12-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by NiteRider
eat a cake a day!

only if it's a tuna and oat cake.

three.eighteen.
09-12-2004, 11:12 PM
its hard man, take it from another skinny guy trying to gain mass...i got so excited when i gained 5 lbs though...lol

Chim
09-13-2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
its hard man, take it from another skinny guy trying to gain mass...i got so excited when i gained 5 lbs though...lol


Yeah man it can be pretty tough, but it's addictive once you start seeing results. Imagine seeing that 5 lbs gain every month, makes the effort not so bad :thumbsup:

forkdork
09-13-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by NiteRider
eat a cake a day!

a cake a day keeps the doctor away;)

1-Bar
09-13-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by civic_rida
hey 1-bar how much do u weigh.

Yea im tring wit a weight gainer be4 bed.

HIgh in carbs n calories:)

155lbs now....165lbs peak (2 years ago working out everyday)

finboy
09-13-2004, 09:10 PM
130, i need to use the mt royal gym BADLY once i get my car running :(

civic_rida
09-13-2004, 11:50 PM
shit crzy i weigh 155 but i guess im taller.

three.eighteen.
09-14-2004, 10:39 AM
and make sure you take care of your body:
after a weekend of not enough sleep and boozing, i dont feel like i had a very good work out at all yesterday, almost none of my sets were finished

sputnik
09-14-2004, 02:25 PM
switch from milk to melted vanilla ice cream

1-Bar
09-14-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by civic_rida
shit crzy i weigh 155 but i guess im taller.

Its not how much mass you have, its a matter of how much muscle/fat/others you have. My buddy who is the same height and weights as me looks a lot smaller b/c he doesn't 'hit the gym' like I do.....

davidI
09-14-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by 1-Bar


Its not how much mass you have, its a matter of how much muscle/fat/others you have. My buddy who is the same height and weights as me looks a lot smaller b/c he doesn't 'hit the gym' like I do.....

Muscle is heavier than fat (denser). So if he weighs the same and is smaller then he is actually more muscular than you. :dunno:

1-Bar
09-14-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by davidI


Muscle is heavier than fat (denser). So if he weighs the same and is smaller then he is actually more muscular than you. :dunno:

actually it depends on what type of muscle fibers we are comaparing....type I/II/x Type II muscle fibers are the ones associated w/ weight lifting so they are thicker and more striated and contain more nuclei thus take up more space. Type I is associated w/ long endurance, they are thinner and require less energy, hence skinny but well defined marathon runners. I have moslty type x, an intermediate and my friend has close to nil....

With your statement, you would think that the heavyweight bodybuilders are not as muscular as say a 225lbs hockey player

.:dunno:

Nuff said.

davidI
09-14-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by 1-Bar


actually it depends on what type of muscle fibers we are comaparing....type I/II/x Type II muscle fibers are the ones associated w/ weight lifting so they are thicker and more striated and contain more nuclei thus take up more space. Type I is associated w/ long endurance, they are thinner and require less energy, hence skinny but well defined marathon runners. I have moslty type x, an intermediate and my friend has close to nil....

With your statement, you would think that the heavyweight bodybuilders are not as muscular as say a 225lbs hockey player

.:dunno:

Nuff said.

I'm curious as to how you determined the fiber-type composition of you and your friend since the only way to conclusively know is an invasive muscle biopsy test.
It is much more likely that you just have a higher bf % than your friend than having an excessive difference in fiber types but you could be right, I've just never heard of ST/FT fibres making a large difference in build.

Your final statement makes no sense at all as a heavyweight bodybuilder at 225lbs, 6%bf is going to be much more muscular than a 225 lb. hockey player at 12%. I don't understand what you are trying to tell me there...

If you were to argue that a 200 pound guy composed of 70% ST (slow twitch) and 30% FT fibres would be less strong than a 200 pound guy composed of 30% ST and 70% FT fibers then I would buy that but I don't know that it makes that large of a visible difference. If you could point me to a study comparing the densities of FT and ST fibres in UNITS that would be sweet cause maybe I'll learn something. I know that the densities are different but I never realized it could make a noticeably large visible difference.

1-Bar
09-14-2004, 11:15 PM
no...all my arugment was that an individual with a signifigant amount of type II muscle fibres has a larger physical size then an individual who is comprimized of mostly type I muscle fibers. That's all....they are both muscular in their own right. A type II individual would out work the type I in shorter heaver load excercises and vice versa, a type I can outlast a type II in an endurance match......

And yes, fiber type does make a noticable difference. Working out your muscles, the reason you get bigger is because your rip the individual strand....now your body has to repair yourself creating new muscle, hence more muscle fibers. Take a longitudinal slice of an endurance runner's leg vs. a NFL running back....which guy has more muscle cells???

Rockski
09-14-2004, 11:37 PM
hit a ballanced diet with a full set of protien, a safe amount so as not to do damage instead of good, and then hit the rigs:D

civic_rida
09-15-2004, 12:04 AM
Height has something to do with it too. A guy whose 6'2 n weighs as much as a guy whose 5'5 will be way skinnier

.

davidI
09-15-2004, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by 1-Bar
no...all my arugment was that an individual with a signifigant amount of type II muscle fibres has a larger physical size then an individual who is comprimized of mostly type I muscle fibers. That's all....they are both muscular in their own right. A type II individual would out work the type I in shorter heaver load excercises and vice versa, a type I can outlast a type II in an endurance match......

And yes, fiber type does make a noticable difference. Working out your muscles, the reason you get bigger is because your rip the individual strand....now your body has to repair yourself creating new muscle, hence more muscle fibers. Take a longitudinal slice of an endurance runner's leg vs. a NFL running back....which guy has more muscle cells???

I know the difference between muscle fibre types and how muscle repair works. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to believe that the difference between you and your friends size is due to muscle types however until you provide me with a good reason to. If you hit me with some evidence, like height, weight, measurements and a tested bf% of the two of you and the only thing different was the measurements I might believe you. I still think this is a case of you having more fat whether it be intra-muscular or otherwise.

1-Bar
09-15-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by davidI


I know the difference between muscle fibre types and how muscle repair works. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to believe that the difference between you and your friends size is due to muscle types however until you provide me with a good reason to. If you hit me with some evidence, like height, weight, measurements and a tested bf% of the two of you and the only thing different was the measurements I might believe you. I still think this is a case of you having more fat whether it be intra-muscular or otherwise.

If you read my original post more clearer you would realize that I work out and my friend does not. We are the same height and have the same mass, but I have a larger physcial size due to more muscle fibres......If you want a bf%, mine is 15% tested a year ago using the air displacement method.....I highly doubt my friends is any lower. At 23 years of age, male and a minimal physcial activity lifestyle, I would assume that his is at least 20% or more.....

davidI
09-15-2004, 04:14 PM
If he is 20%, same height, same weight, he is bigger than you. Doesn't matter what type of muscle fiber it is, fat is less dense thus it occupies more space over a given mass.

If you're trying to say that you're more ripped than him, I'd believe it. But you said he's bigger than you which is not possible the way you describe it. You might look 'more muscular' but not bigger.


I posted your muscle fiber hypothesis on a weightlifting forum I frequent and these are the responses I got:


You should ignore this fool, or better yet ask him for a picture of his type II fibers. No, wait, you tell him you've got him beat because you have type x fibers. But to answer your question, I really, really doubt it. Skeletal muscle contains a mix of the 3 fibers and it would be really hard to attribute overall size to differences in them.


I think you were right and the info that he countered with is crap - to put it bluntly. If both weigh 200lbs and one is 10% and the other is 30%, you will see a very big difference. Now if both are 10%, they can vary in size depending on where they hold their fat.

The answer is both yes and no. Type IIa and IIb fibre types are the ones that experience hypertrophy, while Type I are much smaller. But to say one person has more or less isn't necessarily the case. It's just a matter of your training. If someone is training for endurance his body will adapt to utilizing oxygen as a primary fuel source, so the type I fibres will be placed under more stress, while a powerlifter or bodybuilder type who is lifting heavy will be stressing both, but the added stress will be causing hypertrophy which is mainly the type II fibres. Both types will utilize all fuels sources to some degree, and will be stressed in training regardless. But to say one persons ratio is greater than anothers is a bit ignorant without a muscle biopsy.Your frame will dictate how much muscle you can hold, and your metabolism will determine how easily you can put on that muscle.

It's just a failed attempt to sound intelligent on his part in my opinion.

Oh, and what are type x fibre types? I have never read of them, usually people speak of type IId fibres, which aren't in existence in humans.

Yup, type IId/x, not in humans, only some small mammals and smart asses.

civic_rida
09-16-2004, 12:03 AM
my diet to gain weight is fast food . ahaha

Today i had mcdonalds for lunch , pizza for dinner, and boston pizza cheese toast for snack in the evening came home drank a weight gainer.

1-Bar
09-16-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by davidI
But you said he's bigger than you which is not possible the way you describe it. You might look 'more muscular' but not bigger.


wow...such a heated debate. I never said he was bigger then me.


Originally posted by 1-bar My buddy who is the same height and weights as me looks a lot smaller b/c he doesn't 'hit the gym' like I do.....

"The actual size of the muscles can be increased by regular bouts of anaerobic, short-duration, high-intensity resistance training, such as weight lifting. The resulting muscle enlargement comes from primarily from an increase in diameter of of the fast-glycolytic fibers that are called into play during such powerful contractions...." (Human Physiology 4th editon, 2001, pg.263)

type IIx fibres. I can't remember exactly, but type IIx are an intermediary fibre which you can train to either become type I or type IIb....sorry its been a while since I last took physiology.

http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/abstract/550/3/855

So you frequent a weight lifting forum?? That's cool, but do you have any other education reguarding health/fitness/science??

civic_rida
09-16-2004, 12:17 AM
1-bar how old are u

1-Bar
09-16-2004, 12:28 AM
22 with a BsC in Biological Science and currently going for a Health Science degree. Looking to have a M.D. and specialize in muscle and bone....for those looking for my references.

davidI
09-16-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by 1-Bar


wow...such a heated debate. I never said he was bigger then me.


I know...you said he looked smaller than you. That's the whole point of this debate and I think he would be spacially bigger than you, even though you may be more ripped / more muscular :confused:



"The actual size of the muscles can be increased by regular bouts of anaerobic, short-duration, high-intensity resistance training, such as weight lifting. The resulting muscle enlargement comes from primarily from an increase in diameter of of the fast-glycolytic fibers that are called into play during such powerful contractions...." (Human Physiology 4th editon, 2001, pg.263)

I'm not going to argue that weightlifting makes muscles grow :tongue:




type IIx fibres. I can't remember exactly, but type IIx are an intermediary fibre which you can train to either become type I or type IIb....sorry its been a while since I last took physiology.

Interesting to know, I'll have to do some research into that!



So you frequent a weight lifting forum?? That's cool, but do you have any other education reguarding health/fitness/science??
No formal education no. I was actually thinking of doing a kines or science degree along with my BComm but I have a couple body builder friends who have made it to med school and they said that what you learn won't lend itself to lifting much at all. I know a few pt's as well and they said to save myself the coin because they won't tell you a lot of things that successful bodybuilders do (because they are unhealthy). When you look at succesfful bb of the past (Arnie) and read his encyclopedia of bodybuilding you'll see that the pro's did/do a lot of things that a physiology book may recommend against. The true art to getting a great body is learning about your own imo through trial and error etc.
Edit: There are a lot of MD's on the forums I visit as well so you can get quite expert online advice!

1-Bar
09-16-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by davidI
I'm not going to argue that weightlifting makes muscles grow :tongue:

All I'm trying to say is that just based on physical appearance, I am larger then my friend due to weightlifting, since he does not. I agree that fat is less dense and thus takes up more volume, but on a male human, the primary storage of fat (for fuel purposes) is around the belly (to a certain extent) and not equally distrubiuted throughout the body as adipose tissuse. If it were the case, then yes, my friend would be larger then me.....

.....yes I do agree with you that bb is mostly trial and error. Everyone is different and thus things affect them in different ways, you can't go by the textbook all the way, ie. isotonic vs. isometric.

EK 2.0
09-16-2004, 11:49 AM
Y'all need Atkins yo...


sorry...just trying to lighten up the mood...

1-Bar
09-16-2004, 12:13 PM
hahaha...if you know anything about health or science, Atkins is not the way to go...lol

Nevertheless I think the mood has been lightened up already :D

davidI
09-16-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by 1-Bar

Nevertheless I think the mood has been lightened up already :D

It's just friendly banter :)

Sometimes the only way to learn new stuff is to argue (even if you're wrong). Anyways, I think I understand that you just mean that you look bigger because your weight is distributed more throughout your frame instead of on the stomach like your buddy - that's cool. I was more arguing that his bodies total volume would be larger if he had a higher fat %. (To me 'big' is a reference to a persons volume). Anyways, hopefully a few people learned a bit about Type I & II muscle fibers in this thread even if it isn't really relevant to our arguments

:thumbsup:

1-Bar
09-16-2004, 03:06 PM
:werd: I'm sure people have learned at least little bit more from when this first thread, too badd most of the info was not related....

Ummm....if you want to gain mass, there's a great movie out, watch it, its called 'Supersize me' If you want to look like Arnie, well that's another thread in itself....

Wildcat
09-16-2004, 04:55 PM
how old is Arnie now? 50 something? i think he'll croak at around 60-65yrs

davidI
09-16-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat
how old is Arnie now? 50 something? i think he'll croak at around 60-65yrs

Why do ya say that?

Wildcat
09-17-2004, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by davidI


Why do ya say that?

dont be naive

davidI
09-17-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Wildcat


dont be naive

I think dude is pretty healthy really. Yes he did some 'roids but they were very very very small amounts. 30 years ago they used such little doses compared to the big men of our time that I can't see it having a drastic effect on him. I think Arnie is just a genetic freak - if you see pics of him when he's 19 he's already bigger than a lot of pro natural body builders. Hell, when he was 15 he was twice my size! You might be right but at the same time he has led such an active lifestyle and eaten relatively healthy (bb diets aren't always the most healthy..) that I think he'll live a couple decades more.