Winter Tire Questions

[max_boost]

Ok so my stock size tire is 225/45/17 and I remember talking to a few people and they are suggesting that I get a smaller size (width) tire for my car. So something along the lines of a 205/40/17 perhaps? Narrower tire grips the snow/ice better?

Another question is, I just want a good winter tire without over spending. For example, in the 225/45/17 size, a Michelin Arctic Alpin and Blizzak LM22 tire will cost $225 where as Hankook Ice Bears only cost $145. Why such a big difference in price? Branding?

[Weapon_R]

Thinner tires are better in the winter.

[GTS Jeff]

narrower tires will bite into the snow easier. more pressure over a smaller surface area.

the price difference usually does reflect tire ability (for winters anyway). for example, kumho winters are dirt cheap, but they get terrible reviews all the time. i recently looked into a set of studded hakka 2s and itd cost me about 800 for a set...in 14" size!

[Kenny_boy]

The price difference may also be how much rubber is on the tire... THe more rubber in the tire... the more it will cost...

Atleast thats the way I look at it. Don't know if it is right or not...

[1badPT]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
kumho winters are dirt cheap, but they get terrible reviews all the time. i recently looked into a set of studded hakka 2s and itd cost me about 800 for a set...in 14" size!

Funny I'm happy with mine and I've had a set of blizzaks before which were good. When I bought last year, consumer reports ranked the KW11 ahead of the Michelin Artic Alpin, Nokian Hak Q and Blizzak WS-50. They don't cost much and they are good - but they do have tall soft sidewalls so you'll feel the sidewalls flex if you corner hard. Just make sure you buy the studs to get the full potential of the tires.

[bigboom]

i used to have blizzak lm-18's and hands down they were the best winter tire ever. i believe the lm18 and lm22 are classified as winter performance tires...heat treated and H rated too.

[Weapon_R]

Any snow tire is better than no snow tire at all.

[max_boost]

I've had Blizzaks MZ02's, WS50's, and Michelin Arctic Alpins, they were all excellent tires and served their purpose BUT they were expensive!!!!

Hankook's are cheap and was wondering anyone had experience with them?:dunno: Is it one of those 'you get what you pay for' type tires?

Like WeaponR said, probably even the winter tires from Cdn Tire be better than any all season.

[awd]

I am probably getting Kumho KW17s this year and they will be pizza cutters.

[1badPT]

Edit: replying to maxboost
My friend had them on his maxima - hankook is one of the few companies that made winters for 18" rims :dunno:

He didn't seem completely impressed by them but they were a big improvement over his stock all seasons - he was hoping he'd be able to get a studded tire and the tire shop said they could drill the tire for studding but it would cost a lot more and not work as good as a purpose built studded tire. Can't really offer much feedback on their other tires - and even his are probably not the best basis for comparison since the were low pros with wide contact patches (makes for a shitty winter tire).

Check some of the online tire shops - most allow tire owners to provide feedback on the tires they've bought and while the reviews obviously aren't consistent, they will at least let you know the overall satisfaction owners have had with a particular brand of tire and what some of the drawbacks of a certain brand are.

Usually with winter tires they are noisy(especially studded), wear down faster, all winter rated tires offer good snow traction and a few (studded ones basically) are good on ice.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by 1badPT


Funny I'm happy with mine and I've had a set of blizzaks before which were good. When I bought last year, consumer reports ranked the KW11 ahead of the Michelin Artic Alpin, Nokian Hak Q and Blizzak WS-50. They don't cost much and they are good - but they do have tall soft sidewalls so you'll feel the sidewalls flex if you corner hard. Just make sure you buy the studs to get the full potential of the tires. everyone has their own opinions. i base mine on reading as many reviews as possible and from some limited personal experience too.

basically what ive gleaned from my readings is that pretty much any non-studded winter tire sucks compared to studded tires and that the kumho when studded is comparable to nonstudded, but sucks compared to other studded tires. im definitely going to use studded winters vs non-studded.

[Kaos]

Originally posted by awd
I am probably getting Kumho KW17s this year and they will be pizza cutters.

:WERD:
I heard nothing but good reviews for this tire.
The tread pattern is insane.
Its actually SIMILAR to one of the yokohama winter tires without the hefty cost.

kuhmo
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=kumho+kw17/v=2/SID=w/l=IVI/SIG=11pab1c5q/*-http%3A//www.pneutabor.cz/zim.obrazky/Kumho%20KW17.jpg

Yokohama


http://www.1010tires.com/images/tires/yokohama_vsv901_lg.jpg

[Altezza]

If the LM22 wasn't sold out nation-wide in my size, I would have picked those up over the Hakka Qs.

[ridiculous_]

winter tires are so over rated.....

[Kaos]

Originally posted by ridiculous_
winter tires are so over rated.....

How so?

You live in Van, have you ever driven on winter tires in snow?:dunno:

[CBRComet]

if you put a 205/45-17 on it may leave your rim more susceptible to curbage/damage etc. especially in winter when you are slipping/sliding around more. more likely if the rubber is on the minimum width range of the recommended tire size on the rim. not as big a deal with steelies but with nice alloys something to think about.

[ridiculous_]

Originally posted by Kaos


How so?

You live in Van, have you ever driven on winter tires in snow?:dunno:

lived in cal till very recently, and all sesons were just fine

[Kaos]

Originally posted by ridiculous_


lived in cal till very recently, and all sesons were just fine

Have you ever driven with all 4 winters and then all 4 all-seasons and compared?

IMO winters make a huge difference, compared to just all-seasons in snow.

[ridiculous_]

no but ive driven with 4 all season and also 4 summers in the same winter...on my old car

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ridiculous_
no but ive driven with 4 all season and also 4 summers in the same winter...on my old car

Did you live in the south?

If you lived in the North where there's a lot of hills, you'll be glad you're on winters.

I use 16" for my winters instead of 17". Seems like prices are more reasonable and a bit more tire height in case I do hit a curb.

Have Mitchellin AA, no complain last winter navigating around Edgemont/Hamptons area.

[bol]

I've got the Pirelli Wintersport 210's this year for the 328 and was happy with them on my old 330. Great combination of snow and dry traction.

[GSR Zero]

Personally I would never drive a car in the winter without winter tires. As for a decent winter tire, I've been riding on the Nokian Hakka Q's for years now. I had a set of Blizzaks before and compared to the them I found the Hakka Q's had better grip in the turns. Give Steve a call at Kal Tire on Edmonton Trail. He can hook ya up.

Another thing that may be possible to cut cost is going down to a smaller size wheel and tire combination. Depending on what you drive and if a smaller diameter wheel will fit, you may be able to save some cash. Guess this depends if this set of 17's are you winter wheels. Or are you taking your summer tires off these wheels and then slapping the winters on? Wouldn't suggest this.

Studded tires - legal in Calgary? :dunno:

[bol]

Unfortunatly for max only 17" wheels will clear the brakes on his car... asuming these are for his 330Ci.

There is one exception though max... the 16" AT Italia Type 5 WILL fit but they can be hard to find. It's a wheel that a lot of the people on bimmerfest are running on their 330's for winter.


Edit: These are them
http://users.murtari.com/ejack/twilight/snows1.jpg

[benyl]

Originally posted by ridiculous_
no but ive driven with 4 all season and also 4 summers in the same winter...on my old car

Then you don't know what you are talking about.

All seasons can't touch winter tires with a 10 foot pole.

I dare say the difference on some cars is the difference between FWD and AWD. You just get that much more grip. And when all seasons get worn down about 70%, they are only good for summer.

[rockym20]

I have studded Hankook's and they are amazing on the ice, excellent in snow, but not so good on dry pavement. The sidewalls are quite soft, so you can't corner like you normally would, but then you want soft sidewalls for winter tires so that they stay flexible in the cold and are able to give you more traction. Remember that all tires are a trade-off and especially winter tires. Tires like Alpin's are great on shear ice but not nearly as good on snow (for snow, you want something that looks like a 4X4 tire). Likewise, studded tires like mine don't get nearly as much traction on dry roads as non-studded tires and you can even feel them sliding on the pavement if you come to a hard stop (plus they are loud on the road). A couple of things on studs: 1) they can substantially wear out in 2-3 years (depending on how many miles you put on your car); 2) they cannot be replaced.

Based on my experience with the brand (I use Hankooks for my summer tires, and know a few guys with 4X4's who swear by them), I would say save your money and purchase the Hankook's.

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by ridiculous_
winter tires are so over rated.....


Are you aware that most of Calgary's streets are NOT plowed all winter ??

Van doesn't get a winter anyway !
:rolleyes:

[sillyd]

Get Semperit Sport grips. Cheap, long lasting, great on snow and on dry (for those chinook times when it's dry), and they look really cool.

Much better than kw17 imo.

Definitely a better choice than blizzaks or whatever because we have a lot of dry roads in winter so you need a tire that will perform in ALL winter conditions.

[NightRyder]

Originally posted by rockym20
I have studded Hankook's and they are amazing on the ice, excellent in snow, but not so good on dry pavement. The sidewalls are quite soft, so you can't corner like you normally would, but then you want soft sidewalls for winter tires so that they stay flexible in the cold and are able to give you more traction. Remember that all tires are a trade-off and especially winter tires. Tires like Alpin's are great on shear ice but not nearly as good on snow (for snow, you want something that looks like a 4X4 tire). Likewise, studded tires like mine don't get nearly as much traction on dry roads as non-studded tires and you can even feel them sliding on the pavement if you come to a hard stop (plus they are loud on the road). A couple of things on studs: 1) they can substantially wear out in 2-3 years (depending on how many miles you put on your car); 2) they cannot be replaced.

Based on my experience with the brand (I use Hankooks for my summer tires, and know a few guys with 4X4's who swear by them), I would say save your money and purchase the Hankook's.

i dont really know much bout studded tires, so then what? when they wear out, u're just left with the rubber like a normal winter tire? or is the tire considered a winter tire BECAUSE of the studs... so then after they're worn, the tire is useless too (as a winter tire)?

[Aleks]

Originally posted by fast95pony



Are you aware that most of Calgary's streets are NOT plowed all winter ??

Van doesn't get a winter anyway !
:rolleyes:

He said he lived in Calgary until recently.
I am sure winter tires are better than all season for snow that's why they are called winter tires. The question is do you really need the snow tires in Calgary. I've been driving in Calgary for 8 years now and I've never had problems with snow on my all season tires. I guess it's just a matter of preference...

[ZorroAMG]

Maxboost

Bobby @ Tunerworks recommends the Kumho KW17 in 225 (as per advice, do not go 205) is the best performer for your car, give them a call

Hope that helps

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by altima


He said he lived in Calgary until recently.


My bad..I thought "cal" was KAL-EE-FORN-EE-A as Arnie calls calls it ! ;)

[max_boost]

Hey Thanks to everyone who has replied.

Zorro, yah I was over at Tunerworks today picking up my ACS stuff and heard Bobby's plug for the Kumho's. Since they have it in stock and winter is probably at least a month away, I'll wait a bit before I pick up a set.

[rockym20]

Originally posted by NightRyder


i dont really know much bout studded tires, so then what? when they wear out, u're just left with the rubber like a normal winter tire? or is the tire considered a winter tire BECAUSE of the studs... so then after they're worn, the tire is useless too (as a winter tire)?

The tires I have are a winter tire, the studding is just an option. I decided to put the studs in as I was living in Lethbridge at the time and had to drive to Medicine Hat 1 or 2 days/week. Highway 3 between them can be absolute bitch in the winter, so I was willing to make the tradeoff with less dry traction (when my studs were new, I actually preferred to drive on the ice with them and would usually drive ON the ruts of ice, not between them). Oh yeah, I also did a road trip to Disneyland for Christmas the year I got them and the roads in Montana and northern Utah can really suck in the winter too. This is a few years ago, and winter tires have really improved since then. While studded tires will always give you the best traction on ice, I think the new non-studded tires do a really good job on ice and are substantially better on dry roads. Given the way winters are here, I probably wouldn't buy studded tires next time, I just wanted to give you guys the benefit of my experience. As for all seasons, it really depends upon the car. I think the heavier the car, the better all seasons will do for you in the winter. My Tib is a handful in the winter with all seasons on (almost scary, actually), but I have had cars before that were fine with them. However, as good as you might think all seasons are, try putting a decent winter tire on your car and see how much safer you are on the road. And remember, if you have 2 sets of tires, your tires will last 2X longer (so the cost over the lifespan of the tires isn't much different, but you don't have to compromise so much with traction, not only in the winter, but the summer as well).

[bigbadboss101]

Try www.mytires.ca. Look in the white pages for their address. They are in the NE and have great prices. Trying to get some new clients and couple of my friends got tires from them for lower prices than Costco and Kal Tires etc.

[Moe Man]

you should read my other post on a group buy.........me being a tire expert i would not drive on anything else except nokians.....take my advise, i am doing a group buy in another thread, tell me your size and what model of tire you want and i will see what i can do :thumbsup:

[ridiculous_]

Originally posted by benyl


Then you don't know what you are talking about.

All seasons can't touch winter tires with a 10 foot pole.

I dare say the difference on some cars is the difference between FWD and AWD. You just get that much more grip. And when all seasons get worn down about 70%, they are only good for summer.


like i said i used to live in calgary but i managed fine without em so i prolly dont know what im talking bout...its like never having sex and saying its good :poosie:

[badseed]

I use to have a set of Blizzaks and they were by far the best winter tires I've ever owned. I do agree their super expensive, but worth the money IMO.

[crazydave]

how are touring tires in the snow, i just got some cheapes uniroyal tiger paw,well just two for now cuz i wanted to see how they were. how do you think they will do?

[tirebob]

Absolutely winter tires make a massive difference over any all season or summer tire...

The problem with all season/summer tires is mainly in the rubber compounding. The new generation (ie. last 5 years on) have rubber that basically remains soft and pliable at low temperatures, which is what helps give you much more traction on ice. The extra sipes (cuts within each treadblock) combined with this softer rubber, work in a couple of ways as well. With the weight of the car, the sipes open up giving your tire far more biting edges to help move you over the snow, and when the tire turns, the sipes close expelling the snow away from the tread surface. Basically it means that they are self cleaning. Also, ice in it of itself is not a slippery substance. It is when you have weight pushing down on ice that it compresses slightly forming a thin layer of water, which is what makes the surface slippery. The sipes act like thousands of little squeegies. If your tire is slipping or spinning, the sipes sweep the water away from the footprint, drying out the surface of the ice giving you much more traction.

Yes, studs will most definitely improve your traction even further on ice, but there is a drawback to studs as well, and that is they actually reduce your traction a bit on regualr dry and wet road surfaces. 10 years ago, because the winter compounding was not near as advanced as it is today, studs made a much larger difference with ice traction when compared to today, but with the new compounding available today, studs do not make as large of a difference as one might think. Usually I only recommend studs to those people who are on compact snow and ice for a major portion of their driving, but for most people in the city it is overkill. It really comes down to your own comfort levels and confidence in winter driving...

In closing, most people can "get around" on all season tires in the snow, but it is when you have to respond to an emergency situation that a winter tire can go a long way to avoiding an accident. If you are on All Seasons and it is slippery out, and you have to pile on the brakes or swerve around the idiot that cut you off, your tires will fail you and you will loose a lot more than it would have cost for a set of winters...

Bob Blakeborough
[email protected]

[Moe Man]

i just put on nokian hakkas on my jeep, now i cant wait till winter

hakkas+quadra drive= wet toung + cold pole :thumbsup:

cant wait to see how $1,131 tires work on ice................













BTW: I PAID $374 :rofl:

[PAnderso]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by max_boost
[B]I've had Blizzaks MZ02's, WS50's, and Michelin Arctic Alpins, they were all excellent tires and served their purpose BUT they were expensive!!!!

[PAnderso]

I'm new at this and can't figure out how to reply so I'm posting under your response. Can you tell me how satisfied/dissatisfied you were with the Blizzak WS-50. What conditions they handle best in, how many miles you got before you had to replace them, safety benefits/hazards.
PAnderso

[PAnderso]

Originally posted by max_boost
I've had Blizzaks MZ02's, WS50's, and Michelin Arctic Alpins, they were all excellent tires and served their purpose BUT they were expensive!!!!

Hankook's are cheap and was wondering anyone had experience with them?:dunno: Is it one of those 'you get what you pay for' type tires?

Like WeaponR said, probably even the winter tires from Cdn Tire be better than any all season.

[max_boost]

The WS50 with its soft compound excelled in snow/ice conditions whether it was accelerating or braking. However when the snow disappeared and you were driving on dry pavement, you can really hear the noise and notice how soft these tires are. Of course the softer the tire, they don't handle too well around corners and sometimes you feel like you are just floating along.

Can't answer your questions on mileage because I traded cars a few months after.

[SOAB]

imo, winter tires is like abs. they just help the bad drivers survive a little longer...

if you can't drive in Calgary on a good set of all-seasons, winter tires will just give you false confidence.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by SOAB
imo, winter tires is like abs. they just help the bad drivers survive a little longer...

if you can't drive in Calgary on a good set of all-seasons, winter tires will just give you false confidence.

try stopping with re92's on ice. lol

[tirebob]

Originally posted by SOAB
imo, winter tires is like abs. they just help the bad drivers survive a little longer...

if you can't drive in Calgary on a good set of all-seasons, winter tires will just give you false confidence. Anybody can drive on all seasons, but in an emergency situation on snow or ice, winter tires make all the difference in the world. I would rather have a bad driver on winter tires behind me trying to stop, over a good driver without enough sense to run snow tires...

[Moe Man]

i dont understand why everyone thinks Blizzaks are the best winter tire, they are expencive and dont have sypage all the way through the tread. nokians have sypage all the way to the belts so you tire preforms the way it did when you first baught it. after a few km blizzaks are as good as summer tires. and nokians are way more cheaper

[That.Guy.S30]

nokians are the same price as blizzaks aint they?

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Moe Man
i dont understand why everyone thinks Blizzaks are the best winter tire, they are expencive and dont have sypage all the way through the tread. nokians have sypage all the way to the belts so you tire preforms the way it did when you first baught it. after a few km blizzaks are as good as summer tires. and nokians are way more cheaper It is the Blizzaks specialized rubber compounding which makes them an exceptional ice tire, but you are absolutely correct that they wear fast and provide crap traction after about half way. Also, IMHO they handle like pure shite on bare road surfaces, which we see a lot of around here.

I guess it just depends on where you live and how you drive. If you are up north and live on complete hard packed roads and you are looking for absolute maximum ice traction without any regard to wear or handling, then it is a very good choice, but other than that, it is overkill for most people...

[Chandler_Racing]

Maybe a little bit out in left field, but what tire pressure do you guys typically run on snow/ice tires?

[rockym20]

The same as my summer tires - 30 PSI. If you never drive above 50 KPH, a lower pressure may help, but I wouldn't want to be driving Deerfoot to often at low pressure or you might have the tire rip apart because it overheated.

[tirebob]

Yeah, in most cases I usually suggest people run the same pressure as their summer tires, or maybe slightly higher as the super cold temperatures can cause a bit of a reduction in standing pressure. Running stock pressures is usually the simplest guideline to go by...

[Chandler_Racing]

My dad mentioned he ran 20 PSI when he does ice racing, i was more or less interesting in finding out how low you could safely go.

[tirebob]

Well that is probably fine for short burts of time, but on asphalt this will cause etreme heat buildup and could cause some serious issues.

On the road, the lack of stability from low pressure would not make the subtle ice traction improvement worth while IMHO...