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View Full Version : here is a heel toe d/s bible



got M
11-18-2002, 07:29 AM
kinda interesting
I had to figure it out on my own.
its a great feeling, nailing a perfect,...... *thinks about putting the word girl here**decides not to* down shift.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.lasso

Redlyne_mr2
11-18-2002, 09:58 AM
my feet are 2 big for heel toe, plus wearing globe skate shoes when I drive doesnt help either, mayeb I should pick up a pair of those thin lightweight velcro shoes from Zellers:thumbsup:

rage2
11-18-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
my feet are 2 big for heel toe

As are mine. The secret is to use the left half of your foot for brake pedal and the right half of your foot for gas pedal, instead of using heel and toe. Steve Millen uses this method too.

Ben
11-18-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by rage2


As are mine. The secret is to use the left half of your foot for brake pedal and the right half of your foot for gas pedal, instead of using heel and toe. Steve Millen uses this method too.


Thats exactly it, I cant understand how anyone could heal toe in my car, christ, you would have to have at most size 7 feet...my monsterous size 45's are much to much for them...I prefer using the sides of my food instead though, I feel I get better control than angling my foot to the left...feels awkward.

Davan
11-18-2002, 01:07 PM
This doesn't work for me as well. But not because I wear a size 12 shoe.

My brake and clutch pedal sits about 3 inches closer to me than the gas pedal. (ie gas pedal is 3 inches closer to the firewall than the other two pedals). So there's no way I can reach the gas pedal with even a small portion of my foot on the brake. My ankle just doesn't bend like that.

I've tried several times, the only way it can happen is if I already have the brake pushed in ALL THE WAY which then totally defeats the whole purpose.

B17a
11-18-2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Davan
My ankle just doesn't bend like that.



:werd: Ditto, I can't bend my foot like that to heel toe in it's true form, I can only do the half foot method.

boi-alien
11-18-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Davan
This doesn't work for me as well. But not because I wear a size 12 shoe.

My brake and clutch pedal sits about 3 inches closer to me than the gas pedal. (ie gas pedal is 3 inches closer to the firewall than the other two pedals). So there's no way I can reach the gas pedal with even a small portion of my foot on the brake. My ankle just doesn't bend like that.
time to get some racing pedals =)

three.eighteen.
11-18-2002, 02:09 PM
i think it depends on how the cars pedals are designed too sometimes, bmws have the gas attached to the floor and wideneed alot at the bottom and the brake pedal is nice and close and the same level as the gas...having size 9 feet helps too lol

but a question for you all...do you guys just heel-toe or your equivalent in daily driving or you just lazy up and coast thru corners, or even downshift before the corner, slow down and drive thru?

Davan
11-18-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by crxboi

time to get some racing pedals =)

got some already!

rage2
11-18-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
but a question for you all...do you guys just heel-toe or your equivalent in daily driving or you just lazy up and coast thru corners, or even downshift before the corner, slow down and drive thru?

I drive like I'm on the track :D. Heel toe (err left half of foot right half of foot :D), rev matched downshifts, every corner on the street. It's second nature to me (when I drive my 944 anyways).

I've looked for the clutch pedal quite often on the SLK accidently hehe.

three.eighteen.
11-18-2002, 03:48 PM
k cool, good im not alone lol

Mikko
11-18-2002, 03:58 PM
I have size 46 boots on (I now think I should have bought 45's, ugh, too big) and while at first it seemed impossible, it seems that I just put the foot on the brake like usual, then rotate the foot leftwards, the heel starts to come onto the lower left part of the gas pedal. So it does work even in that cramped space, for my huge feet, though I suck at it.

It feels like there is too much of a fuck-up factor in it all and I don't really want to bother learning it. Each new car would have to be learned in too anyway.. and I'm a rally guy, not a track guy.

Does anyone have good alternatives to hell-toe except braking earlier? I suppose one can brake just as late too, but then one would lag slighly when putting in the gear while entering the corner, having to match it somewhat.

Of course, one can just jam it in anyway and have a brief moment of engine braking and clutch abuse - alternatively choose a higher gear for lower RPM's - for a car with a lot of torque this wouldn't be half bad. The engine braking would risk unsettling the car which can be dangerous. Wouldn't want that in a 911!

three.eighteen.
11-18-2002, 04:03 PM
learning to heel toe wasnt too hard, i figured it out on my own between issues of SCC and just experimentation

rage2
11-18-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
learning to heel toe wasnt too hard, i figured it out on my own between issues of SCC and just experimentation

Learning and getting good on the street wasn't hard at all... it was my first time using the technique at the track, at speed... it's a whole lot different when you need to apply constant brake pressure and modulating right at the edge of lockup... while moving your foot around to gas when you're clutched, and the braking behavior changes cuz there's no engine braking when clutched, not to mention not having ABS...

I'm much better now. :D

GTS Jeff
11-18-2002, 04:13 PM
i am not good enough to heel toe yet :(

three.eighteen.
11-18-2002, 04:21 PM
how often are you in edmonton jeff? i've always wanted to drive a ae86 and see what the hype is...*wink wink*;)

GTS Jeff
11-18-2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
how often are you in edmonton jeff? i've always wanted to drive a ae86 and see what the hype is...*wink wink*;) dude, i LIVE in edmonton!

boi-alien
11-18-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
dude, i LIVE in edmonton!

dude bring your ride down here i wanna go for a run =)

GTS Jeff
11-18-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by crxboi


dude bring your ride down here i wanna go for a run =) ill be in calgary for a couple days if i can get days off work!!

boi-alien
11-18-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
ill be in calgary for a couple days if i can get days off work!!

well gimme a call when u're down here =)

Big_Six_Boy
11-18-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by rage2


I drive like I'm on the track :D. Heel toe (err left half of foot right half of foot :D), rev matched downshifts, every corner on the street. It's second nature to me (when I drive my 944 anyways).

I've looked for the clutch pedal quite often on the SLK accidently hehe.

Hahaha.. :werd:
I'm all about Heel-Toe. I drive like that all the time in normal driving.
As three.eighteen mentioned it before, it really depends on the configuration of the pedals. Not all cars are configured for Heel-Toe. In fact, *most* cars are NOT. For those unfortunate cars, you can usually attach an add-on pedal on the GAS that will bring the height up a bit and a little wider. Trust me, this really helps. I had to do that on my old Corolla-GTS. :D

hjr
11-19-2002, 02:11 AM
:D

I used to heel-toe all the time (actually, i taught myself toe-heel *toe on top of gas and the arch on the brake*, kinda screwed up, but it worked. it was the old recesed gas pedal problem).

But now that i actually race (rally) and heel-toe(i do it right now) is absolutly nessiary in my car (RWD) to keep the rear end from slipping during braking, i usually get it out of my system.

In my street car, i try to stay cool on the clutch. I usually, for a corner, push in the clutch and brake normally, then when i get past the *apex* of the corner my right foot goes back to the gas and i kick it up a bit before letting out the clutch. I feel that is has much less wear on the actual disc (i could be wrong), and it helps me drive slower. Its cause im not trying to get the most out of each corner...(I have no speeding tickets to date, not that i dont speed, i really try not to, but im still just really lucky);)

:angel: :angel: :angel:

three.eighteen.
11-19-2002, 12:41 PM
heh, now that we've talked about heel-toe...anyone on here left foot brake?? i have no idea when to use this...

speedracer
11-19-2002, 12:52 PM
Heel toe isn't that important as opposed to driving skill. Besides, brakes are cheaper to replace than a transmission.:D

speedracer
11-19-2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
heh, now that we've talked about heel-toe...anyone on here left foot brake?? i have no idea when to use this...
Use it in everyday driving. After awhile you'll get the feel on how much pressure to apply.

RX-7_TWINTURBO
11-19-2002, 12:58 PM
Heel Toe Driving is fun ...it took me a little while to get it down but now i do it everywhere :thumbsup:

Watching Initial D Taught me how to Heel Toe :rofl:

three.eighteen.
11-19-2002, 01:19 PM
u use left foot brake in normal traffic? i thought i had something to do with bringing your rear end back in

92 Teg-B18A
11-19-2002, 01:35 PM
hehe, I can do the motion of heal toe, but it doesn't do anything on my automatic:banghead:

speedracer
11-19-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
u use left foot brake in normal traffic? i thought i had something to do with bringing your rear end back in
Driving on the street is a great way to learn left-foot braking. You can't learn until your left leg gets training. Ofcourse this should be under normal driving conditions (Try at a parking lot first).

The idea is to induce brake bias / weight transfer. It's quite handy for 4wd, FF but RR also will see benefits.

GTS Jeff
11-19-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by speedracer
Heel toe isn't that important as opposed to driving skill. Besides, brakes are cheaper to replace than a transmission.:D most people dont heeltoe to engine brake...most ppl just use it as a means to downshift smoothly
Originally posted by three.eighteen.
u use left foot brake in normal traffic? i thought i had something to do with bringing your rear end back in actually, its supposed to kick the tail out...

rage2
11-19-2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
most people dont heeltoe to engine brake...most ppl just use it as a means to downshift smoothly

Actually, when you heel toe, you're obviously under braking, and when you select the lower gear, you're effectively engine braking :D.


Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
actually, its supposed to kick the tail out...

That depends on a car's brake bias and suspension setup. You can't generalize the effects of left foot braking.

hjr
11-19-2002, 11:20 PM
These braking techniques are funtional racing techniques. If you choose to use them on the street, more power too you :burnout: :
Anyways, heel-toe is to stop wheel lock up while down-shifting during heavy braking.

It was my understanding that left foot braking is simply for braking when you dont down shift, and want to get back on the throttle quickly (like one might want to do while racing)
Left foot braking is also used when the clutch isnt used (F1 and WRC) to give the maximum control possible to the driver.

:)

Mikko
11-19-2002, 11:46 PM
The main use for LFB in a FWD is to brake the rear tyres, lessening their grip, making the car steer more neutral or over steer.

As 4wheeldrift said in another thread, it works in every car, but merely for weight transfer (it assums that you actually will decellerate) while in a FWD you could technically be accellerating and still get over steer. Nothing I'd ever do in a RWD. :)

Ben
11-19-2002, 11:56 PM
I revmatch and heel toe (left half right half) all the time, I really like the way it drives when doing that, plus it sounds great. God damn I cant wait till the trackdays next year, I finally got my springs, camshaft, Audi turbo fuel pressure regulator, intake manifold and throttlebody in, so now its just a matter of wrench time...stage 3 is nearing completion...:clap:

GTS Jeff
11-20-2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by rage2


Actually, when you heel toe, you're obviously under braking, and when you select the lower gear, you're effectively engine braking :D. u know what i mean :guns:

Toma
11-20-2002, 02:07 AM
I run a dropped brake pedal and do it opposite.... heel on brake, toe on gas....

Toma