need info on 95 eagle talon turbo awd

[abka2]

i've found a sweet 95 talon. the bank will only give me a 7 year loan. i understand parts can be quite expensive. the body is in mint condition, but i'm affraid over the years, parts will become harder to find and even more expensive. any info or imput would be appreciated

[403Gemini]

just get a good inspection on it. good cars, but yea they needa be fixed quite often.

[ridiculous_]

if u need a 7yr loan to buy a 10 year old car i wouldnt reccomend getting it at all

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by ridiculous_
if u need a 7yr loan to buy a 10 year old car i wouldnt reccomend getting it at all

:werd: maybe get the older generation instead, or look into getting an ESi if you just want the looks.

[cavb0i]

get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur car is unrealable.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by cavb0i
get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur car is unrealable.

oh here we go again...

[habsfan]

Originally posted by cavb0i
get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur car is unrealable.
why aren't you banned yet?

[1badPT]

Because no one with access to the ban button saw the kiddy porn he posted earlier :dunno:

[habsfan]

i'm glad i didnt see that, or a road trrip to calgary for an asskicking would be in order:guns: :guns:

[Chim]

Originally posted by abka2
i've found a sweet 95 talon. the bank will only give me a 7 year loan. i understand parts can be quite expensive. the body is in mint condition, but i'm affraid over the years, parts will become harder to find and even more expensive. any info or imput would be appreciated

The 2nd gen DSM's have a chance of crankwalk. Although its not as common as some people make it out, you wouldn't want to risk going $7k in debt for something thats just gonna be sitting on bricks

[BumpinTalon]

crankwalk is only really likely in tuned-up motors. the chances of it happening to a stock car are very slim, but if you bag on your car stuff will break anyways.. and from the sounds of it this guy is young and will bag on his car so a TSi AWD is not a good choice. The transmissions like to grind second gear after awhile, you might wreck the rear diff, so on

my car is more reliable then a cavalier for sure.

[bcrdukes]

I have a friend of mine who is quite the car enthusiast. He's driven all 3 generations of the Talon. Not only that, he's driven pretty much every import car you can possibly think of.

This is what he's told me about Talons:

The DSM motors (or in your case, the 4G63 motor) is quite the beast. Tough motor with lots of potential. Good if you're into drag racing or turbo applications.

With that being said, unfortunately, the chasis of the Talon/Eclipse is rather flawed.

People generalize that DSMs are unreliable. They are right to a certain extent. These cars were poorly built. Suspension, body, interior and little things which I can't think of right now make this car very unreliable.

I can't quite remember which generation the 95s fall under, but as far as I'm concerned, the 2nd generation Talons have a problem known as "crankwalk."

I don't know too much about the subject, but a simple search on Google will tell you how deadly this may be.

They're not the worst cars in the world, but with a 7 year loan from a bank and a DSM car in your hands, I'd personally think twice, if not, three times before I'd sign the ownership papers.

But of course, if you can find a trustworthy mechanic to inspect the vehicle, I don't see how it'd hurt. Trust yourself and your gut feelings on this.

:)

[brncojay]

He's driven all 3 generations of the Talon


Thats weird, DSM must have added a third gen talon that no one has ever seen.

[joseph]

^^^ lol I think maybe he's confusing the 2 variations of the first gen car

[EK 2.0]

OK HERE WE GO...



Originally posted by cavb0i
get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur car is unrealable.

First off, you are a fucking tool...enough said...



Originally posted by Chim
The 2nd gen DSM's have a chance of crankwalk. Although its not as common as some people make it out, you wouldn't want to risk going $7k in debt for something thats just gonna be sitting on bricks

chances of crankwalk actually happening are VERY slim...I think out of all the 2G DSM's I have dealt with ONE had CW...now out of a population of how many DSM's N/A wide...the percentage is only about 1-3...if even that...and if it does Crankwalk...a replacement engine can be had very cheaply...


Originally posted by BumpinTalon
crankwalk is only really likely in tuned-up motors. the chances of it happening to a stock car are very slim, but if you bag on your car stuff will break anyways.. and from the sounds of it this guy is young and will bag on his car so a TSi AWD is not a good choice. The transmissions like to grind second gear after awhile, you might wreck the rear diff, so on

my car is more reliable then a cavalier for sure.

its not only "tuned" up motors that can succumb to crankwalk...completely stock motors have fallen prey to it as well...AND on top of that...Mitsu, and Chrysler will blame everything from you not torquing your lugnuts, to a K&N Air Filter to crankwalk...so please dont succumb to the crankwalk bandits and post info that may or may not be true...post sites and facts that he can read up on to find out if a DSM is right for him...As far as the trannies go...yes they are a weak point, BUT having said that, a lil regular maintenance can and will go a long way...



Originally posted by bcrdukes
I have a friend of mine who is quite the car enthusiast. He's driven all 3 generations of the Talon. Not only that, he's driven pretty much every import car you can possibly think of.

This is what he's told me about Talons:

The DSM motors (or in your case, the 4G63 motor) is quite the beast. Tough motor with lots of potential. Good if you're into drag racing or turbo applications.

With that being said, unfortunately, the chasis of the Talon/Eclipse is rather flawed.

People generalize that DSMs are unreliable. They are right to a certain extent. These cars were poorly built. Suspension, body, interior and little things which I can't think of right now make this car very unreliable.

I can't quite remember which generation the 95s fall under, but as far as I'm concerned, the 2nd generation Talons have a problem known as "crankwalk."

I don't know too much about the subject, but a simple search on Google will tell you how deadly this may be.

They're not the worst cars in the world, but with a 7 year loan from a bank and a DSM car in your hands, I'd personally think twice, if not, three times before I'd sign the ownership papers.

But of course, if you can find a trustworthy mechanic to inspect the vehicle, I don't see how it'd hurt. Trust yourself and your gut feelings on this.

:)



dont post shit if you do not know what you are talking about...please it doesnt help to inform new people in the car scene, and well as it makes DSM's show in a very poor light...

and your friend...DO NOT even get me started...there was only 2 generations of the Talon...89-94 and then the 2G's 95-well 99 in the Mitsu...

and "as far as I'm concerned"...do you own one??...have you owned one??...or is your "enthusiast" friend pouring your head full of shit??...how many 2G's do you know with crankwalk??...sorry I couldnt hear you...yeah...that's what I thought...so please DO NOT mix up hearsay with real facts please and thank you...


Buddy...if you have any DSM related questions...let me know PM me or post them here...I can give you a TON of info to read thru as well...

Arif.

[bcrdukes]

^
whoa lighten up alright?

I'm not a DSM expert so I'll just take my comments back, alright? Yeesh. And that "3" was just an honest typographical error. No need to go Jihad.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, that's all. Not to mention, you just so happen to own a DSM. Do I sense a little bias here?

Perhaps you should be a little more open minded rather than be a stuck up elitist. You know, there are better cars out there than a Talon. I'm sure each and every one of use can name at least 2.

And honestly, ask yourself. How do you expect somebody to actually listen to you with an attitude like that, Mr. DSM-know-it-all? I guess its true. DSM owners have a little bit of that attitude built right into them.

But whatever, its the internet.


:dunno::whocares:

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by bcrdukes
^
whoa lighten up alright?

I'm not a DSM expert so I'll just take my comments back, alright? Yeesh. And that "3" was just an honest typographical error. No need to go Jihad.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, that's all. Not to mention, you just so happen to own a DSM. Do I sense a little bias here?

Perhaps you should be a little more open minded rather than be a stuck up elitist. You know, there are better cars out there than a Talon. I'm sure each and every one of use can name at least 2.

And honestly, ask yourself. How do you expect somebody to actually listen to you with an attitude like that, Mr. DSM-know-it-all? I guess its true. DSM owners have a little bit of that attitude built right into them.

But whatever, its the internet.


:dunno::whocares:



I KNOW there are better cars out there...I have owned a MkIII Supra, an Mr2, an All-Trac, an RX7, you name it I have probably driven it, or owned it at one point...and am currently looking into a new Honda Project...

But I hate when people hear things about a certain car...whether its a DSM or another make, and go and post misinformation about it...it happens WAY too often...on this forum and other general interest auto forums...which is why if you aren't sure...then DON'T POST...

[heavyD]

Originally posted by CycloneAWD
I KNOW there are better cars out there...I have owned a MkIII Supra, an Mr2, an All-Trac, an RX7, you name it I have probably driven it, or owned it at one point...and am currently looking into a new Honda Project...

But I hate when people hear things about a certain car...whether its a DSM or another make, and go and post misinformation about it...it happens WAY too often...on this forum and other general interest auto forums...which is why if you aren't sure...then DON'T POST...

That's right. For sure an N/A civic will probably be more reliable but if you slap a turbo on any N/A engine, a DSM will be more reliable. In fact DSM's are no less reliable than any other factory turbocharged car that is over 5 years old. Turbocharged vehicles require more maintenance and care than N/A cars period. The only reason they get a bad rap is that there are more turbocharged DSM's on the road than any other factory turbocharged vehicle save for the old Chrysler 2.2/2.5L turbos.

[bcrdukes]

^
That's because naturally aspirated engines do not come with forged rods, pistons and such other internals.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by bcrdukes
^
That's because naturally aspirated engines do not come with forged rods, pistons and such other internals.

The stock 4G63 doesn't come with forged internals either.:rolleyes: So what is your point?

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by bcrdukes
^
That's because naturally aspirated engines do not come with forged rods, pistons and such other internals.


see again...this is your mis-information that I speak of...

[cavb0i]

get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur doin the wrong decison.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by cavb0i
get a real car. cav. all i gotta say. ur doin the wrong decison.

Anything from the mouth of a GM J-body car owner should be dismissed as useless as their taste in cars renders them borderline retarded.:devil:

[Smokem]

For parts that are cheaper, check out the local Mitsu dealers, or sites like www.dsmtrader.com or www.ca.dsm.org - besides, there is so much online information you can pretty much become your own mechanic.

I've had my Talon for just almost 2 years now... given it's a 90 and I've done some modifications, I'd say I am generally happy with its reliability. Actually, I firmly believe that modifying it helped out with a lot of the restrictions (on both sides of the motor). Of course in the two years, I had to replace a clutch, spark plug wires, plugs, oil and a number of small parts here and there. The only thing I ever needed to take it in for was the clutch, and that was after my some >100 times launching at 6500rpm.

BOTTOM LINE:
It's a matter of getting a good used car and taking care of it, that's all. Arguably, cars with more parts are more unreliable, and with the addition of a turbocharger, there is a concomitant increase in the number of parts.

OFF THE RECORD:
For Mr. Cavboi and his argument that Cavaliers/Sunfires are "real cars" I would refer him to my friends who drive those cars and ask them how many carlengths I have on them during a race. On average, I usually get about an eighth-mile on them before slowing down.

THE IRONY:
Truly, his notion of a "real car" means that he drives a car that is up to 12 years newer with roughly the same engine size as the 4G63 but with about 1/2 the horsepower of a stock turbo DSM and 1/3 the horsepower of a modded one. (Thank goodness for the introduction of a better engine in the Ecotec, but too bad he drives an '02).

[bcrdukes]

Originally posted by CycloneAWD



see again...this is your mis-information that I speak of...

Then why don't you crank your boost over 20psi using stock internals and tell me that your pistons don't melt and your rods won't throw a bearing, let alone, creating a nice hole in the block?

www.howstuffworks.com

Do a search on turbochargers and tell me that I'm wrong.

[bcrdukes]

Originally posted by heavyD


The stock 4G63 doesn't come with forged internals either.:rolleyes: So what is your point?


Which is why the the Talon/Eclipse just so happens to fall under the "unreliable and poorly built" category.

The 4G63 BT engine is an awesome engine, but really, it comes down to the engineering of the vehicle itself. They drive and handle like garbage. Say hello to a new suspension system and anymore than a 1" drop, your suspensoin geometry bottoms out.

All-wheel drive? Oh goody gosh! 30% drivetrain loss is already hurting enough and only to compensate it with a turbocharger? All you have is traction. Wow. Good for you.

Oh, not to mention, the transmission and driveshaft bites ass. May I have some new syncros, please? Again, American built and poor American engineering. What a great combo.

They're heavy and suck gas like there's no tommorrow. Oh, and did I also mention that the interiors are only comparable to Hyundai's and Kia's?

Enough with you punks. Replying to you punks is bad enough. I felt so much dumber just by retaliating with you jerks.

Good day to you and have lots of fun with your over-glorified Talons.

:closed:

[JCX]

I wanna know what bank will give you a 7 year loan on an old car liek that. Was the interest rate like 28%?

I'm a banker and that is HIGHLY uncommon.

[t-im]

regardless if the car is good or not, it sounds like you can barely afford it, so don't go for it

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by bcrdukes



Which is why the the Talon/Eclipse just so happens to fall under the "unreliable and poorly built" category.

The 4G63 BT engine is an awesome engine, but really, it comes down to the engineering of the vehicle itself. They drive and handle like garbage. Say hello to a new suspension system and anymore than a 1" drop, your suspensoin geometry bottoms out.

All-wheel drive? Oh goody gosh! 30% drivetrain loss is already hurting enough and only to compensate it with a turbocharger? All you have is traction. Wow. Good for you.

Oh, not to mention, the transmission and driveshaft bites ass. May I have some new syncros, please? Again, American built and poor American engineering. What a great combo.

They're heavy and suck gas like there's no tommorrow. Oh, and did I also mention that the interiors are only comparable to Hyundai's and Kia's?

Enough with you punks. Replying to you punks is bad enough. I felt so much dumber just by retaliating with you jerks.

Good day to you and have lots of fun with your over-glorified Talons.

:closed:

sounds like someone is jealous and wishes he had a DSM :thumbsup:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by bcrdukes
Then why don't you crank your boost over 20psi using stock internals and tell me that your pistons don't melt and your rods won't throw a bearing, let alone, creating a nice hole in the block?

www.howstuffworks.com

Do a search on turbochargers and tell me that I'm wrong.

You have made a complete ass of yourself infront of knowledgeable DSM owners. The 4g63 is proven to handle over 22 psi on stock internals as there are plenty of guys running 60 trim turbos on stock internals.

The drivetrain loss on the AWD models is 30%? WTF. It's about 5% or less.

Handle like garbage? You should tell that to John Navarez who's 1995 Eclipse won the roadcourse challenge at the 04 Sport Compact Car USCC against world class cars such as two Supras, a Viper, 350Z, etc. and finished second overall in the competition out of ten cars.

Transmission bites ass? How many stock transmissions can handle 300-450hp AWD drag like DSMs? Not Subaru WRX transmissions which are barely adequate for the stock 227 hp. DSM's may not shift as smooth as a Honda but they are sturdy.

Heavy? They range between 2800 - 3200 lbs betwen FWD & AWD vehicles which is pretty average really for its class.

Please leave these forums, do some research and come back when you know something. Until then good riddance.:english:

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by bcrdukes


Then why don't you crank your boost over 20psi using stock internals and tell me that your pistons don't melt and your rods won't throw a bearing, let alone, creating a nice hole in the block?

www.howstuffworks.com

Do a search on turbochargers and tell me that I'm wrong.


I did...and had no issues...thanks for coming out buddy...

[benyl]

don't buy a used car you can't afford. If it is going to take you 7 years to pay off a 10 year old car, you might want to rethink driving... have you considered insurance on the car? Oil just hit $50 / bbl... you might not be able to fill the tank...

PS> hope this doesn't sound like a flame... just getting you to think about it.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by benyl
don't buy a used car you can't afford. If it is going to take you 7 years to pay off a 10 year old car, you might want to rethink driving... have you considered insurance on the car? Oil just hit $50 / bbl... you might not be able to fill the tank...

PS> hope this doesn't sound like a flame... just getting you to think about it.

Back to the original topic. I agee with this fella. If you can just barely afford the monthly payments (7 years is really too long of a loan for any used car), this may not be the car for use as they do require more maintenance than a car like a civic or corolla, etc. Parts are cheap though and DSM's really aren't that hard to work on and there is a ton of resources on the internet.

[statick]

cavboi is hilarious:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[StraightFlush]

Originally posted by heavyD


You have made a complete ass of yourself infront of knowledgeable DSM owners.

The drivetrain loss on the AWD models is 30%? WTF. It's about 5% or less.


Forgive my DSM newbieness...well I did own a 91 TSi a few years back...only to have the timing belt go as the vehicle warmed up in the morning...replaced all valves etc...nightmare..but back on the subject... :) 5% drivetrain loss on an AWD vehicle????? I am severly missing something here as there should be more drive train loss due to the AWD. But hey, you are a "knowledgeable DSM onwer" you must be right and I must be wrong. LOL

EDIT: As I suspected...drive train loss on an AWD Talon/Eclipse 1st/2nd Gen

Drivetrain Loss: awd typically runs from 22% to 25%, a fwd from 14%-16%.

You stuck your foot waaay deep in your mouth with your post. I suggest you shush now and allow some of the more experienced DSM owners speak.

[DSM Power]

:drama:

But yeah, most agree drivetrain loss is in the 15-20% range. :dunno:

[redec]

omg, this thread is funny...people like bcrdukes always crack me up

[wrxmat]

awd:hitit:

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by bcrdukes



Which is why the the Talon/Eclipse just so happens to fall under the "unreliable and poorly built" category.

The 4G63 BT engine is an awesome engine, but really, it comes down to the engineering of the vehicle itself. They drive and handle like garbage. Say hello to a new suspension system and anymore than a 1" drop, your suspensoin geometry bottoms out.

All-wheel drive? Oh goody gosh! 30% drivetrain loss is already hurting enough and only to compensate it with a turbocharger? All you have is traction. Wow. Good for you.

Oh, not to mention, the transmission and driveshaft bites ass. May I have some new syncros, please? Again, American built and poor American engineering. What a great combo.

They're heavy and suck gas like there's no tommorrow. Oh, and did I also mention that the interiors are only comparable to Hyundai's and Kia's?

Enough with you punks. Replying to you punks is bad enough. I felt so much dumber just by retaliating with you jerks.

Good day to you and have lots of fun with your over-glorified Talons.

:closed:

Sorry dude but of all the stock cars I've driven my Talon handles brilliantly. One of the big three car magazines (either R&T, C&D, or Motor Trend) loved them too, calling them one of the best sporty runabouts for under $20,000 (it was a RS Eclipse), and last I checked nobody is bottoming out lowered more than 1". A guy on 2GNT is lowered 4" and still has some travel left.

All-wheel-drive is hard to make fun of. The DSM system is more geared to the front wheels so they will understeer a bit without some adjustment. The cars aren't very heavy, last I checked being under 3000 pounds was great and gas mileage, 600km to a tank all highway miles, is tough to complain about when it fills for $32.

My interior rattles a bit but it's a lot nicer then a Honda dash, and having a crazy system probably didn't help.

By the way, you can't say "closed" after your own argument. You can only get away with that when you know you've been firing blanks the whole time and have no real ammunition to keep the conversation going. Your entire argument seemed founded on jealousy... have fun driving your Honda :thumbsup:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by IRL


Forgive my DSM newbieness...well I did own a 91 TSi a few years back...only to have the timing belt go as the vehicle warmed up in the morning...replaced all valves etc...nightmare..but back on the subject... :) 5% drivetrain loss on an AWD vehicle????? I am severly missing something here as there should be more drive train loss due to the AWD. But hey, you are a "knowledgeable DSM onwer" you must be right and I must be wrong. LOL

EDIT: As I suspected...drive train loss on an AWD Talon/Eclipse 1st/2nd Gen

Drivetrain Loss: awd typically runs from 22% to 25%, a fwd from 14%-16%.

You stuck your foot waaay deep in your mouth with your post. I suggest you shush now and allow some of the more experienced DSM owners speak.

You guys and your theoretical numbers. AWD DSM's only suffer a 3-5% driveline loss compared to FWD DSM's. They have nearly identical trap speeds, and since you come out of the hole faster in an AWD, it's a moot point anyway.

[civicluva]

:whocares: if you think a dsm is slow, race one and get your ass handed to you :dunno:

even a non-turbo dsm has potential, slap on a turbo kit and at 5 psi you can be already at 210 hp as oppsed to a GS-T pushing 210 hp at 10 psi.

heavyD is right 5-10% drive loss not 30%, where the hell are you getting your numbers?! :dunno:

[JustinL]

First of all, I don't know sh@t about DSMs. But, 5% drivetrain loss is unbelievable. I would like to see some data to support this. If you are trying to say there is a difference between the AWD and FWD of 5%, then maybe...

5% total drivetrain loss on an AWD system is almost impossible.

[BumpinTalon]

I don't agre with 5% drivetrain loss, AWDs lose a lot of power and at best a car will lose at least 10%. I would peg it at closer to 30% but not much greater then that. The traction difference more then compensates.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
I don't agre with 5% drivetrain loss, AWDs lose a lot of power and at best a car will lose at least 10%. I would peg it at closer to 30% but not much greater then that. The traction difference more then compensates.

I referred to the 5% drivetrain loss being the difference between a GST and a GSX which is what counts. You can throw out a number like 30% but is it relative to what? The consensus is that it should be around 20% for an AWD DSM and 15% for a FWD. Those numbers vary from car to car and are only theoretical so they really don't mean shit. Talking about drivetrain loss between FWD, RWD, & AWD cars is the equivalent of bench racing and bench racing is ghey:thumbsdow. In the real world the difference between RWD, FWD, & AWD is very slight and that is where it counts. So when some idiot comes out and flames AWD for drivetrain loss it pisses me off. There are a ton of FWD vs. AWD furums at DSMtuners.com and it boils down to the fact that every FWD DSM owner would trade their car for an AWD. Enough said.

[StraightFlush]

Originally posted by heavyD


I referred to the 5% drivetrain loss being the difference between a GST and a GSX which is what counts. You can throw out a number like 30% but is it relative to what? The consensus is that it should be around 20% for an AWD DSM and 15% for a FWD. Those numbers vary from car to car and are only theoretical so they really don't mean shit. Talking about drivetrain loss between FWD, RWD, & AWD cars is the equivalent of bench racing and bench racing is ghey:thumbsdow. In the real world the difference between RWD, FWD, & AWD is very slight and that is where it counts. So when some idiot comes out and flames AWD for drivetrain loss it pisses me off. There are a ton of FWD vs. AWD furums at DSMtuners.com and it boils down to the fact that every FWD DSM owner would trade their car for an AWD. Enough said.

When someone generally says that they suffer a 5% drivetrain loss....that to me, and to the rest of the world it seems, is telling me that its wheel hp is (crank hp - 5%). Hence we said no, its more in the range of 20-30%.

If you want to say that the AWD has 5% MORE drivetrain loss than a FWD...then say that....dont assume.

Either way, ofcourse I would take an AWD over a FWD vehicle...I would love to launch like a bat outta hell...