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BigMass
10-23-2004, 09:03 AM
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html


2.4 litre V8s for 2006, changes for 2005
FIA confirm the rules package

The ten-cylinder V10 engine is on its way out

Despite some very hard lobbying from the likes of BMW, Mercedes Benz and Honda, the FIA announced today the rules package for the 2005 season and beyond and the 2.4 litre V8 engine formula will take effect come January 1st, 2006. Team may continue with a V10 engine until the end of the Concorde agreement in 2007, but at a reduced and capped rev-limit.

Modifications to the chassis come into effect next season while each team must qualify and race on the same set of tyres.

The following is a press release from the FIA.

On June 30, 2004, the World Motor Sport Council voted unanimously to invoke Article 7.5 of the Concorde Agreement and give notice to the Formula One Technical Working Group (TWG) to propose measures to reduce the performance of the cars within two months. Notice was given on July 6, 2004.

When the TWG failed to produce proposals by September 6, 2004, the FIA Technical Department proposed three packages of measures to the TWG, in accordance with Article 7.5(c).

In summary, all three packages involved bodywork changes to reduce downforce, new tyre rules to require “harder” tyres and a reduction in engine capacity from 3.0 to 2.4 litres with eight cylinders. Of the three, Package 1 gave the most aerodynamic freedom but imposed maximum restrictions on the engines; Package 2 gave less aerodynamic freedom but slightly fewer engine restrictions; and Package 3 imposed further aerodynamic restrictions but gave the same technical freedom for the 2.4 litre V8 engine as the current 3.0 litre V10.



All the teams were prepared to agree the bodywork changes and tyre regulations contained in Package 2. However, opinions differed on the engines. The closest to the necessary 8 out of 10 votes was at the meeting of September 6, 2004, when the TWG voted 7 to 3 in favour of the Package 2 engine rules.

The TWG met most recently on October 15, 2004, but still failed to vote 8 to 2 in favour of any one of the three packages within the 45 days specified by Article 7.5. The World Motor Sport Council was therefore free to impose its own measures from October 21, 2004, to come into force no sooner than three months from publication.

On October 21, 2004, the WMSC decided to impose Package 2 and that those parts of it which apply to 2005 would come into force on March 1, 2005 and the remainder on January 1, 2006.

Package 2 consists of the following measures:

2005 (to come into force on March 1, 2005)

Bodywork
Changes to the bodywork (aerodynamics) to raise the front wing, bring the rear wing forward, reduce the diffuser height and cut back the bodywork in front of the rear wheels.

Reason: it is estimated that these changes will result in the loss of 20% or more downforce with minimal loss of drag.

Tyres
One set of tyres must complete qualifying and the race.

Reason: a harder tyre will reduce cornering speeds.

Engines
Each engine must last for two complete Events

Reason: a two-race engine will give less power than a one-race engine.

2006 (to come into force 1 January 2006)

Engines
The introduction of a 2.4 litre V8 engine together with a number of restrictions concerning design and permitted materials.

Reason: reducing capacity is a sure way to reduce power (as repeatedly requested by the TWG), while technical restrictions will limit the rate of power increase. It is estimated that power will drop to about 700 bhp compared to the 1000 bhp that existing engines will reach by 2006.

In order not to prejudice the smaller independent teams the existing 3.0 litre V10 engines may continue to be used in 2006 and 2007, subject to a restriction on revs to be determined by the FIA.

Reason: having reduced engine power, we need an inexpensive but competitive engine for the smaller independent teams, including newcomers. A rev-limited 3 litre can be adjusted to be competitive with factory 2.4 litre units, but will be far less costly.

E.A.
Source FIA

kevie88
10-23-2004, 09:07 AM
Do you know how many times I've heard that F1 was "dying" because of a rule change? F1 is a constantly evolving formula.


Give them 1 or 2 years (max) and lap times will start falling again.

rage2
10-23-2004, 09:26 AM
haha BigMass is obviously an F1 newbie ;).

When the ruled out the 1500hp turbo motors, F1 didn't die, they got a LOT faster. Same with the 3.5L to 3.0L transition.

JAYMEZ
10-23-2004, 11:34 AM
f1 is always fun to watch ! it will never die! unless they make it like 2.0l V4's buahah:nut:

BigMass
10-23-2004, 01:05 PM
The point isnt how fast they're going. Technology improves and in 10 years they’re going to be racing 4 cylinder F1 cars that lap faster than today’s cars. The problem is that F1 should be something that has minimal restrictions. If Ferrari wants to build a 10,000hp car they should be allowed. I really dont see the problem. Every car has its limits. It should be up to the driver to drive safely within his cars limits. It shouldn’t be up to the car to restrict the driver because he's to stupid to let off the gas coming into a corner at 400mph. If should never become anything that resembles a spec racing series. If the best car (Ferrari) is 100 times better than the weakest car (Minardi) I say so be it. This isnt Nascar.

Team_Mclaren
10-23-2004, 01:24 PM
do you understand what it means the term "formula" 1?

From what i know, its the same "FORMULA" for every team to make the game fair.. which means under the same rule. And they have been doing this forever. I agree with your that its kinda retarded but they have been doing this forever..
ie: 3.5 to 3.0, turbo to NA

FiveFreshFish
10-23-2004, 03:05 PM
Tyres
One set of tyres must complete qualifying and the race.

Reason: a harder tyre will reduce cornering speeds.

Must be pretty hard tires to last through qualifying and an entire race.

redec
10-23-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by BigMass
The point isnt how fast they're going. Technology improves and in 10 years they’re going to be racing 4 cylinder F1 cars that lap faster than today’s cars. The problem is that F1 should be something that has minimal restrictions. If Ferrari wants to build a 10,000hp car they should be allowed. I really dont see the problem. Every car has its limits. It should be up to the driver to drive safely within his cars limits. It shouldn’t be up to the car to restrict the driver because he's to stupid to let off the gas coming into a corner at 400mph. If should never become anything that resembles a spec racing series. If the best car (Ferrari) is 100 times better than the weakest car (Minardi) I say so be it. This isnt Nascar.

That's a noble concept, but it's just not economically viable. The team with the most money would win every time....why would the other teams continue to compete when they don't stand a chance?...they wouldn't, and that would be the death of F1.

rage2
10-23-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by BigMass
The point isnt how fast they're going. Technology improves and in 10 years they’re going to be racing 4 cylinder F1 cars that lap faster than today’s cars. The problem is that F1 should be something that has minimal restrictions. If Ferrari wants to build a 10,000hp car they should be allowed. I really dont see the problem. Every car has its limits. It should be up to the driver to drive safely within his cars limits. It shouldn’t be up to the car to restrict the driver because he's to stupid to let off the gas coming into a corner at 400mph. If should never become anything that resembles a spec racing series. If the best car (Ferrari) is 100 times better than the weakest car (Minardi) I say so be it. This isnt Nascar.
You do realize that 95% of crashes in F1 is not driver error (what you're saying), it's mechanical failure. To allow the cars to run 400mph, which is probably possible today if F1 was "unlimited", *every* F1 course will be unsafe because a failure at 400mph will result in instant death. Your idol MS would never allow that... you do know he's the biggest "safety bitch" in F1 right?

Also, a single dominating team is bad for business, and the F1 guys know that, so it'll never be allowed. Look at the DTM back in the day... Mercedes owned everyone SO much with their huge budget, NOBODY came close and everyone just left. In the end, MB was left and the series was shut down.

F1 isn't there yet, YES ferrari is dominating, but nowhere near what DTM looked like when Mercedes dominated. Look towards the other series in Japan and Australia. Why did they ban the Skylines back in the day? :)

If you ran the FIA, F1 would be gone in 2 years.

Z_Fan
10-23-2004, 08:00 PM
I used to be of the opinion that racing shouldn't be restricted. Why is so much effort put in to slowing the cars down? Hell, lets really make it about the driver, not the car. Give them the craziest equipment and technology possible. The stickiest tires, most power, most downforce they'd want, etc. Just no computer aided traction. The fastest driver still alive at the end wins.

Unfortunately, that concept is just twice as dumb as it sounds.

The drivers (for the most part) are way to smart to allow this to happen. Going fast is what they want to do, and I'm sure they trust in their skills MORE than the car - and THAT is the problem! They know that is just a matter of time before something goes wrong in their car. And they'd rather be doing 180mph than 400mph when that happens.

They need rules and regulations. It's a business for all people involved. Levelling the playing field has to happen to keep the cars closer together, so people actually see a race instead of a train moving really fast. For a while there, racing basically didn't exist in F1. That's what the FIA is trying to fix.

It's a business. They must do what is necessary so people will watch. I'd watch a slower car if there was actually a race going on. It's the race that is interesting. So if you have complete domination based on your car alone (which has been the case in the past) it's boring - and you'd rather watch paint dry. Uhm, jezz, let's see who is gonna win this race. I'd say the Ferrari if it doesn't break. So, do I watch just to see if the Ferrari breaks? Hell no, I change channels and see if I can find racing...

F1 knows this - they need competition to stay alive. So, change or die just like in any business. F1 also knows they can't allow speed to get out of hand. They need drivers - alive preferrably...

I think the new rules (even if the cars are slower) allows for tighter competition as well as the ability to allow new teams to be introduced at a reasonable cost. This is what will allow existing teams to continue competing at this level...even if they don't win every race!

hyperwhite
10-23-2004, 08:56 PM
i don't care so much about the 2.4L engines but they should be allowed to use as many or as few cyclinders as they want. a ferrari 2.4L V12 would be awsome :D

etta
10-26-2004, 04:29 AM
F1 is the best of the best motor racing has to offer. It is full of teams that proclaim to be the cutting edge in racing technology.

If someone wants to watch a series where engine, aero, tires and driver aids are fully regulated there are plenty of series that offer just that. There are plenty of series' out there that DO already restrict progress, and indeed punish success with ballast and the like.

That goes for all other complaints too. Things like "Oh it's all about the car these days. I want to see them all in the one car, then see if Michael is quicker". If you want a single model series then go watch the honda cup. There are plenty of series' out there that only use 1 chassis or only use 1 engine.

If, however, you want to see the biggest and best teams let loose on each other, trying to create the best cars with the best drivers with the most money that they can find, then by all means hang around and enjoy formula 1.

All these people who want to restrict what happens at the pinnacle of motorsport must either be forgetting formula 1's very reason for being or they do not have an appreciation for what has gone on in the last 50 years of the sport, and are happy to change it beyond recognition.

rage2
10-26-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by etta
All these people who want to restrict what happens at the pinnacle of motorsport must either be forgetting formula 1's very reason for being or they do not have an appreciation for what has gone on in the last 50 years of the sport, and are happy to change it beyond recognition.
Uhh, WTF are you talking about? What has gone on in the last 50 years? You make it sound like these changes are a first time thing.

If F1 was truly about innovation in the last 50 years as you say, they wouldn't have banned the Tyrell 6 wheeler. Nor would they have banned the Brabham fan car. Nor would they have banned the Williams CVT transmission. Nor would they have banned full active aero...

I can go on and on and on with all the "innovations" that were banned over the years dating back to the 60's.

CKY
10-27-2004, 03:06 AM
i think they should just limit the budget and raise the regulations, but then again it's just my off the head opinion.

really though, watch them restrict the engines to a 4-cylinder in another 10years and they'd still be cranking out 1000+hp

Alpine Autowerks
10-27-2004, 07:02 PM
The speed the cars go is irrelevant. F1 is a made for TV sport and you cant tell if a car is going 200 0r 300 so why not keep it safe. It is not currently about innovation most production cars have more driver aids than today’s F1 cars. Like Redec says ...it is the team that spends the most that wins except for true innovations like Lotus and ground effects. F1 has had engine sizes from 1.5l to 4.5l in 4-16 cyl....rules try to keep it safe and fair... engineers interpret the rules to gain every advantage they can ...this battle is part of the allure of F1 or WRC that spec car series like CART IRL or NASCAR never will.

civic_stylez
10-27-2004, 09:03 PM
the main objective of every f1 team is innovation. you could give them any kind of motor and they will find a way to extract every last ounce of power from it. the new rules just give them new ways to innovate the sport. just like kevie88 says...give them a few years and times will start to fall. you can bet by the end of last weekends brazilian gp the teams were already well underway for next years development..i do find some of the rules stupid but for the new motors you wont notice much of a difference next year. the teams will find a way to set new time records...to me that what makes f1 so interesting. as long as the new rules keep coming out, f1 will never be boring.