Subscribing to US satellite services makes you a criminal (again)

[rage2]

That's right boys, it's grey market again! If you subscribe to US TV such as DirecTV or Dish Network, it no longer makes you a criminal. The CRTC was using a section of the radio communications act to make an interpretation that made it an offense to even subscribe to US satellite signals. With today's ruling in a Quebec court, that section violates the Charter of rights, that's our right to view whatever the hell we want! :clap:

Here's a translation of a blurb from a quebec newspaper site. More info in a full article tomorrow.


The CRTC exceeds its rights

Claude Plante

The Tribune

Sherbrooke

The Canadian Council of broadcasting and telecommunications (CRTC) exceeds his rights when it prohibits to collect signals of paying television by satellite coming from the outside of Canada using material of decoding.


The judge Danielle Côté, of the Court of Quebec, returned this decision, Thursday with the law courts of Sherbrooke, in a cause which was born a few years ago.

In a judgement of 100 pages, it pronounces a verdict of not guilty on each chief deposited in 1998 against two residents of Drummondville, Richard Thériault and Jacques D' Argy.

According to the judge, prohibition to decode signals contravenes the Canadian Charter of the rights and freedoms.

The lawsuit in this business proceeded in 2000 in Drummondville.

More details in the Tribune of Friday.

Of course, Bell, CRTC and the other guys that are gonna lose subscribers from this deal who funded this whole fight are going to appeal all the way to the supreme court. For now it's legal, and it's be stupid for the supreme court to rule against a charter of rights ruling.

As a side note, this does not make it any easier for anyone to subscribe to DirecTV or Dish Network. The US satellite providers has contractual agreements with guys like HBO, which has contracts with canadian networks such as the Movie Channel for rights to specific shows. Since there are no Canadian only blackouts for these providers, they will not sell to anyone outside of the US. Also, pirating is STILL illegal. This ruiling only covers legit subscriptions from the US.

But hey, for those that have access to US phone #, address, and social security number, you're no longer a criminal for getting real tv! Time to dust off that Tivo ;).

[benyl]

Does that mean we can talk about it now? ;)

[Toms-SC]

Oh, like XBox mod chips! haha :)

[rage2]

You can talk about how to subscribe to US service. Piracy talk is still illegal.

[turbotrip]

can we make threads wanting to buy dishnet receivers?

[fcuk_it]

does anyone here still use directv?? cuz i still have 2 recievers and some useless p4 and hu cards...
just got dishnet and its pretty cool but its not as cool at directv... haha

[Ed the SOHC]

sweet... time to convert my bell to direct!

[rage2]

Originally posted by turbotrip
can we make threads wanting to buy dishnet receivers?
I'll let you know by Monday. Because this decision was in a quebec court (and not alberta or supreme court of canada), I'm gonna do a bit more research and ask a few lawyer friends to make sure that it's OK in alberta. The last ruiling was in the supreme court, so it was made illegal in all of canada.

If all is well, yes, dishnet and directv equipment is allowed in the marketplace. Pirate devices are still not allowed obviously.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Ed the SOHC
sweet... time to convert my bell to direct!

Is it possible to convert your BEV reciever to DirecTV? I know you can make it Dish but not DTV.

[jaysas_63]

so does anybody know of a place to buy a directtv box and dish?

[googe]

Originally posted by rage2


But hey, for those that have access to US phone #, address, and social security number, you're no longer a criminal for getting real tv! Time to dust off that Tivo ;).

WTF? You need to give your SSN to subscribe to TV??

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
WTF? You need to give your SSN to subscribe to TV??
haha yep. You can argue with them actually and tell them u don't wanna give them your SS#. If you find the right CSR they'll just take down your last 4 digits of your SS# (just make it up), or you can make up a SS# if you know the format, and tell them they are NOT allowed to run a credit check on you. In which case they might ask you for payment in advance.

Canadian credit cards work fine ;).

[rage2]

Originally posted by sabad66
Is it possible to convert your BEV reciever to DirecTV? I know you can make it Dish but not DTV.
No. DirecTV uses completely different technology. Converting bell to dish or vice versa will render the receiver unsubscribable.

[rage2]

Originally posted by jaysas_63
so does anybody know of a place to buy a directtv box and dish?
Ebay! Then you can find a US address broker and he'll setup an account, payment, etc. for you from the US, and you pay him for services.

Or you can do it yourself, but the process is much more difficult subscribing yourself.

[Ben]

I read this in the National Post this morning and I figured that was the case. CRTC is such a joke.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by rage2

Ebay! Then you can find a US address broker and he'll setup an account, payment, etc. for you from the US, and you pay him for services.

Or you can do it yourself, but the process is much more difficult subscribing yourself.

thx for the advice:thumbsup:

[rage2]

BTW - going through a broker will cost you twice as much as doing it yourself. Doing it yourself requires either you have a place in the states, or a friend that has a place in the states to help you setup a few key things.

[Ed the SOHC]

Originally posted by sabad66


Is it possible to convert your BEV reciever to DirecTV? I know you can make it Dish but not DTV.



Originally posted by rage2

No. DirecTV uses completely different technology. Converting bell to dish or vice versa will render the receiver unsubscribable.

My bad, it Bell to Dish Network.

[benyl]

Judge rules restricting channels contravenes Charter

The Record (Sherbrooke)
Fri 29 Oct 2004
Page: 5
Section: News
Byline: Stephen McDougall
Source: Special to The Record

Canadians forced to subscribe to two Canadian satellite TV channel providers may soon be able to get more choice if a ruling by provincial court judge Danielle Cote is allowed to stand.

On Thursday, Cote ruled that restricting licences to two satellite providers - Bell ExpressVu and Star Choice - contravenes freedom of expression rights as stated in Article 2 B of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

She also ruled the federal government body that issues the licenses -- the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) -- does not allow enough access to foreign channels that appeal to ethnic viewers in Canada.



The ruling means the CRTC must allow more channels from other countries, particularly from the United States, to be beamed into Canadian homes.

Jacques D'Argy and Richard Theriault, two Drummondville residents who contested the federal communication law, were ecstatic at the ruling.

"This means that freedom of expression does prevail in this country," said D'Argy after the ruling was read out.

"The federal law is bad because it infringes on our right to see different channels and different points of view."

D'Argy argued the federal Radio Communications Act allowed the two providers a virtual monopoly in Canada, free from competition from other providers in the U.S. and Europe.

"Bell has never really had to face much competition for satellite subscribers," said D'Argy. "As long as the act restricted channels from coming in, Bell did not have to worry about other providers."

Harjit Sandhu, a satellite TV distributor in British Columbia who supported the legal challenge, said the ruling will upset the present broadcasting establishment.

"For Bell ExpressVu, it means they can no longer steer the law their way," he said.

"For the feds, it's the first nail in the coffin for heavy regulation of the airways."

The CRTC had argued the act was needed to protect Canadian culture and broadcasting rights from dominance by American and European channels. But D'Argy and Theriault argued the act prevented Canadians from being exposed to opinions other than what the federal government deemed appropriate.

"If this ruling stands, I will soon be able to go to the U.S. and get a DirectTV satellite," said Theriault.

"It was this signal that got us into trouble in the first place."

The trouble occurred in 1999 when the RCMP raided D'Argy's home in Drummondville and charged him with violation of the Radio Communication Act.

D'Argy had access to the American DirectTV provider channels in violation of the federal act.

He was able to stay the charge in penal court, then opted with Theriault to challenge the federal act on constitutional grounds.

In making her ruling, Cote said the federal act can remain in effect for one more year so Ottawa law makers and regulators can change it to allow for more channel access.

She added that because her ruling directly affected D'Argy and Theriault, they would be allowed to access American satellite providers immediately. The two men were also acquitted of any penal charges laid against them by the RCMP.

Despite his glee at winning his case, D'Argy expects the federal government to appeal the decision all the way to the Supreme Court.

"We will know in thirty days," he said.

"If there is no appeal, then Canadians will be able to see whatever channel they want from around the world."

[Fluidic]

Originally posted by Ed the SOHC





My bad, it Bell to Dish Network.

Yes you can. :)

[rage2]

OK so I did a lot of research on this topic this weekend. The decision basically states that the government has 1 year to change the Radio Communications Act so it doesn't infringe on the Charter of Rights. Meaning it WILL be legal within a year. Technically, the supreme court decision still stands, so it's still ILLEGAL.

*BUT*, this ruling affected individuals, so if you sub to US satellite, and if you get charged, it'll get thrown out thanks to this decision. Which means it's VERY UNLIKELY anyone would get charged because it'd be thrown out immediately even without a lawyer.

For companies (or forums) that sell US satellite, they could potentially still be charged, because there's no ruling on businesses at all. It's still technically illegal for a year.

If you pirate US satellite, you're still breaking the RCA, and will get charged, because it would have nothing to do with Charter of Rights.

So, my decision is to allow chat regarding subscribing to US satellite, how to do it, etc. But there will be no US satellite equipment allowed in the marketplace until the dust settles in a year.

DirecTV here I come! :thumbsup:

[ZMan2k2]

Umm....for those of us interested, can you give us a better idea of how to set up an account with DirectTV. I understand there is a "company" that will set up a PO box, phone #, etc., but how do I get a hold of them? Cause I want REAL TV!!!!!!

[Kobe]

Direct T.V dosn't work :( Anyone know when it will work again

[rage2]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Umm....for those of us interested, can you give us a better idea of how to set up an account with DirectTV. I understand there is a "company" that will set up a PO box, phone #, etc., but how do I get a hold of them? Cause I want REAL TV!!!!!!
The most important thing you need is a US phone #. You can't call directv from canada, even US cell phones in Canada will NOT work. You'll get a fast busy signal. To get around that, subscribe to Vonage US (canadian Vonage wont work either), and get the phone router sent up here. To do that you'll need a friend or family in the states to set you up. Once you get that box, hook it up to your internet, and voila, a US phone # in your own home.

Once you get that up and running, you'll be able to call DirecTV from Canada, and subscribing is easy. Canadian credit cards work, they don't mail much out to you because everything is dealt with online. If you buy all new equipment with new cards, you can activate all of 'em over the phone without needing a US address. If you have a lot of old equipment (ie pirates with useless gear) or ebay purchase stuff, you'll need to order cards through DirecTV for $30usd a pop. In those cases you will need to have a real name, address, and someone to sign for it down in the states. So it's a lot easier if you import new equipment with new cards ready to be activated.

So, you really don't need a PO box to setup directv from Canada. Now the most important, is US have weird local network rules. So in order to qualify for the NY/LA national feeds, you have to use an address (fake or real dont matter) that qualifies for Distant Network Service (DNS) so you can get ABC/FOX/CBS/NBC. The beauty of using a DNS qualified address is that you will get both the NY East and the LA west feed, making timeshifting and PVR recording a lot easier, with next to no chance of conflict.

Originally posted by Kobe
Direct T.V dosn't work :( Anyone know when it will work again
It works fine. Oh wait, you're a pirate :rolleyes:. You want it working again, you pay to subscribe. I don't understand the pirates, pay so much for equipment that keeps going down. In the long run it probably would've costed less to subscribe. It's very unlikely that the new DirecTV cards will get hacked.

[2UTH DR]

Originally posted by rage2

So, my decision is to allow chat regarding subscribing to US satellite, how to do it, etc. But there will be no US satellite equipment allowed in the marketplace until the dust settles in a year.

DirecTV here I come! :thumbsup: [/B]

A few months ago I found a canadian site that sells direct tv satellite equipment:

http://www.avdeals.ca/directv/directv.htm

[Kobe]

hehe rage we only played for the dish and the card fixer, but how much dose it cost 2 subscribe. It only cost us like $450 for a year and a half of t.v :(

[Ajay]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[sabad66]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[Kobe]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[Ajay]

Wow....talking about freedom of speech!

Can't even post about this topic on a forum without having a post deleted?!?

[benyl]

Originally posted by Ajay
Wow....talking about freedom of speech!

Can't even post about this topic on a forum without having a post deleted?!?

I don't know what you said, but if you were talking about something illegal like pirating, that could be why your post was deleted.

[Ajay]

I just said piracy is also burning mp3s or borrowing a copy of a friend's Windows XP which I'm sure a fair amount of people have done.

I really don't care that it was deleted cause I know satellite piracy is a very touchy subject but it's kinda ironic that this thread has a mention of 'violation of the Charter of Rights' and then a couple posts get deleted because they mention satellite piracy!

Either way....good job that it's no longer illegal 'grey market' wise.

HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime have the best shows! Not to mention US MTV and VH1.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Ajay
I just said piracy is also burning mp3s or borrowing a copy of a friend's Windows XP which I'm sure a fair amount of people have done.
Yes, lots of people do that. We don't condone it obviously, and won't allow trade discussions on movies, mp3's, software on here.

Originally posted by Ajay
I really don't care that it was deleted cause I know satellite piracy is a very touchy subject but it's kinda ironic that this thread has a mention of 'violation of the Charter of Rights' and then a couple posts get deleted because they mention satellite piracy!
Violation of charter of rights have absolutely nothing to do with illegal theft of service. If you're talking about being able to chat about piracy, we're not violating any charter of rights. You have a CHOICE to go elsewhere and talk about piracy ;).

An interesting note, we don't really have freedom of speech in Canada like the US.

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/f/fr/freedom_of_speech__canada_.html

Originally posted by Ajay
HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime have the best shows! Not to mention US MTV and VH1.
:werd:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Kobe
hehe rage we only played for the dish and the card fixer, but how much dose it cost 2 subscribe. It only cost us like $450 for a year and a half of t.v :(
Missing a show when it goes down, priceless!

hehe I started out with a directv receiver with a hacked card years ago. Bought it from WestCo on Mcleod, didn't even know the difference between grey market subs and black market hacked stuff. Got really sick of it going down here and there. When the card went down for good, I got a broker and subscribed when they swapped to the HU card. Been a sub on and off since then.

I have the total choice premier package. $90 a month.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by rage2

Missing a show when it goes down, priceless!

hehe I started out with a directv receiver with a hacked card years ago. Bought it from WestCo on Mcleod, didn't even know the difference between grey market subs and black market hacked stuff. Got really sick of it going down here and there. When the card went down for good, I got a broker and subscribed when they swapped to the HU card. Been a sub on and off since then.

I have the total choice premier package. $90 a month.

O man 2 expensive for my blood, but our satalilite would be on for a good 6 months at a time.. But with that 90 do u just the get normal channels are ppv aswell?

[Jimbo #4]

Can anyone tell me the easiest way to subscribe to Directv? I live in Saskatchewan and have family living in the States. I have a directv reciever and card. Is it possible to use these, or do I need new ones sent from Directv? Also how does the subscription process work?

[Tyler883]

We used to frown upon eastern block countries that made it illegal for their citizens to veiw western content TV stations.....

....but when it comes to Bell's profits, we are now singing a different tune!

It's pathetic how easy it is for a country to become "unenlightened".

[HD03]

Originally posted by Jimbo #4
Can anyone tell me the easiest way to subscribe to Directv? I live in Saskatchewan and have family living in the States. I have a directv reciever and card. Is it possible to use these, or do I need new ones sent from Directv? Also how does the subscription process work?

Get a dish, and give your realatives your credit card number and the numbers for your gear and get them to set you up with an account. Then you can administer the account by internet (ie change packages and pay for it). You need a US address and phone number to set it up but not to keep it.

[TrevorK]

So you're selling that fancy PVR you just bought for Shaw eh?

[googe]

*bump*

What became of this? Its been over a year. Anyone have a reference saying its officially OK now?

[afrotl]

Originally posted by fcuk_it
does anyone here still use directv?? cuz i still have 2 recievers and some useless p4 and hu cards...
just got dishnet and its pretty cool but its not as cool at directv... haha

OFF topic but if that is your TL I have to say that is a sweet looking ride.

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
*bump*

What became of this? Its been over a year. Anyone have a reference saying its officially OK now?
Last I heard the decision got reversed. Not sure where it stands now.

[googe]

Thats dumb. On what grounds?

[Mixalot27]

well shit, now if they start allowing me to download music for free on the internet I will no longer be a criminal. What fun is that? I'll have to take up a crack addiction just to get my thrills then.

[googe]

what? first of all no one said anything about free. were talking about being allowed to PAY for us satellite services (its illegal even if you want to be a legit subscriber)

second, its already legal to download music for free in canada.

[Mixalot27]

Thats news to me. I thought music was copywrited material, so therefor downloading it through file sharing like kazaa, limewire, bearshare etc was illegal. I am not a lawyer so I maybe wrong. I just pretty much figured it was illegal but not enforced so no need to worry and better than paying. And same goes with US satellite signals. While technically maybe "illegal" at times its not really enforced so no worries. But if I'm wrong please tell me what is the law with downloading music? out of curiousity

[Nissanaddict]

to my knowledge, in Canada you're allowed to download, just not "share" it. So if nobody in Canada shares, and they download off people in the states, nobody in Canada is breaking any laws I beileve.

[AllGoNoShow]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
to my knowledge, in Canada you're allowed to download, just not "share" it. So if nobody in Canada shares, and they download off people in the states, nobody in Canada is breaking any laws I beileve.

Thats the last I heard as well...



BTW ur sig is Technically incorrect... Crossroad means she is giving you an option, take one road or the other, one together, one apart. A T is a one way type of situation, you both spitup and take your own ways. Atleast thats the way I see it ;)

[Mixalot27]

Thats awesome. I always thought it was illegal but I did it anyway. I just figured it was basically like dubbing cassette tapes or movies years ago, technically illegal but nobody enforced it. So I can download it without committing any crime, so what if the guy I downloaded it off is from USA? Can he be charged with a crime by sharing it with me? Imagine that, you download your favorite track off kazaa and some guy in the states does time or pays a big fine for it. THATS HILARIOUS IF TRUE

[Khyron]

Need to change the thread title, something like "Actually NM you're still criminal scum". :D

Khyron

[Cherrypicker]

i want my direct t.v.

[sabad66]

bump, anyone know if this is still legal?

[rage2]

Nope, it's not :(. The guys fighting it ran out of money, and the case has stalled. Last decision, it's illegal (again).

CRTC fucking corrupt cocksuckers... grey market satellite radio is completely OK, because obviously XM and Sirius Canada haven't bribed those pricks at CRTC yet. Bell's still giving CRTC execs perks such as golfing with Tiger Woods, so ya, that's why sat TV grey market is illegal.