Stunting Ticket Help

[RPM]

so i take my car to a huge empty parking lot to get more used to my car that i just bought. The same parking lot that AMA takes there students to learn how to drive, anyways I get there and theres another car doing the same thing I was... just screwing around, I new the guy so i pulled up beside him and talked to him and this is where I know i got blamed for "racing" cause he pulled away and then i did but theres no way we would of bin "racing" though I was 3 car lenghts behind him and not even going fast. Witnesses got my plates but not the other guys and im getting a 402 doller ticket mailed to me with statements like
"one of the cars were on 2 wheels at one point" and "the 2 cars were racing" No cops seen it.
I dont know how i was doing anything deiffernt then what the drivers traing people were teaching. except honestly, mabye 1 half assed donut and thats it but whos never done that.

I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experince with fighting a ticket what should i say and what should i look for the judge to ask me?

[FinalAeon]

take it to court of course...

stick to ur guns and tell tem what happened. the govt sends tickets like this because people are too lazy to go to court and they want u to pay them. goto court, tell them what happened, your ticket will be significantly reduced if not abolished completely.

oh and ps:

don do stuff like that in public X_X lol :banghead:

edit:

even if u like....hmm how to put this in words that i cant get in trouble for... umm kinda go on a bit on the offensive with the judge, telling him that it's "unjust" to prosecute without legal evidence... he'll backoff, just dont be harsh, they can basically do whatever they want, i've seen it :\

[FiveFreshFish]

Those witnesses would have to show up in court, otherwise the prosecution has no case.

[FinalAeon]

yea, they'd call the witnesses if they had to, but i bet none of them would come... lol... besides you could still probably win... because you can come up with a bunch of sh** like about how it could NOT be a race, then it's out of the water...

[LUDELVR]

You can do a couple of things here, firstly, you can send in the ticket, plead not guilty and then wait for a court date. When that is set, have it postponed so you have ample time to prepare your case. It also makes any witnesses have to wait too! On top of that, find out who got your liscence plate and any other particulars that the crown may have to use against you. When you are ready, you can bring it to court on the set date and have a trial.

Now, if the witness doesn't show up, congratulations...the crown will call no witness and you've won. But if the witness does show up, you have to be prepared to put him or her on trial. Again, this could be very fun! haha

Essentially, you have to do one thing. Create reasonable doubt that you were in fact "not" doing anything to what they have charged you. You can even go so far as to proove that you were not there and that you were in fact someplace else. In order to do this, you'd need proof, so find out what time the witness said you were Stunting or racing and then if you were someplace else, that creates reasonable doubt! Of course this method may be BS, but then again, so is the ticket that you're getting! So you'd need someone to vouch for your whereabouts, or a receipt saying that you were eating lunch at that time and there's no way that you could have been at the accused location. And if they ask about your plate and how they got it, you drive by that area many times and maybe they saw you driving another day but in no way does that corrolate to the accusation at hand.

Anyway, you can have some great fun playing with the system, and especially with witnesses! hahahah :thumbsup:

[DefektiveVibe]

thats total bullshit...how can someone accuse you of stunting and report it?

there would be so many bullshit calls like this all over the place...especially if you wanted someone you hated to pay

[beinkken]

this is easy, just deny it. This WILL NOT STAND UP IN COURT. If someone reports something to the police they usually follow up and contact you just to issue a warning. But they cannot make a cahrge against you based on heresay alone.

[RPM]

Originally posted by DefektiveVibe
thats total bullshit...how can someone accuse you of stunting and report it?

there would be so many bullshit calls like this all over the place...especially if you wanted someone you hated to pay

ya what the hell...how can just witnesses be enough to give me a ticket. Why dont i find out what kinda car these people who called it in drive and get a few friends to witness them "STUNTING" it seems like you can do that.

everyone i know has gone to this parking lot and pissed around and they pick me to give this shit too:thumbsdow

also one other thing im debating is that right know as it stands its worth no demerits cause they cant prove i was driving kinda like photo-radar. But if i go to court and admit to driving and somehow i dont get the ticket reduced ill be screwed.. i think but i dont no for sure. IS it best to just pay the 400 dollers and move on, or is my case good enough to get me out?

[3G]

Originally posted by RPM


ya what the hell...how can just witnesses be enough to give me a ticket. Why dont i find out what kinda car these people who called it in drive and get a few friends to witness them "STUNTING" it seems like you can do that.

everyone i know has gone to this parking lot and pissed around and they pick me to give this shit too:thumbsdow

also one other thing im debating is that right know as it stands its worth no demerits cause they cant prove i was driving kinda like photo-radar. But if i go to court and admit to driving and somehow i dont get the ticket reduced ill be screwed.. i think but i dont no for sure. IS it best to just pay the 400 dollers and move on, or is my case good enough to get me out?


Stunting ticket is worth 6 demerits :eek:

[DefektiveVibe]

Originally posted by RPM


IS it best to just pay the 400 dollers and move on, or is my case good enough to get me out?

no the 400 isnt worth their word

go to court fight for it bullshit if you have to cuz the only proof they have is the people that said you were stunting. Also as witnesses that you werent stunting bring those other people that you saw in the other car becuase if they bring witnesses it might be harder to prove your point

But i still dont get how you could get a ticket for someone reporting something. Also if the cops didnt follow up on the intial report how is it that they can issue a ticket?

[Z_Fan]

Definitely take this to court.

I would be very surprised if this isn't thrown out immediatley. With no real credible witnesses, and no clear act indicating stunting, (other than someones opinion) - you're never going to get convicted. Fight this all the way, then sue the mother fucker who reported it for your legal fees. The person who reported this MUST come forward to testify against you. (Not likely that they will because right now they are anonymous and probably like that)

I saw a guy switch lanes very fast the other day on Deerfoot. Right in front of someone in the 'fast' lane doing 70km/H (the posted limit in this area) - that is stunting IMO. He was wanting to do 110km/h on the 70km/h zone like a fuckwad. And was trying to get his 'point' across to the other driver. He damn near hit her, and then almost hit the barrier in the middle of the road as his POS car struggled for grip. Hell, maybe it is wreckless endangerment. Either way, that's just my opinion and I'm not sure it'd hold up in court. This is way more serioius of an offense than some punk fucking around in a parking lot. (Like you!) Because the asshole on Deerfoot endangered other people.

Fight this...fight everything!!!! I'd pay a laywer to handle it. Force the issue though. Take your $400 and send it to a lawyer to defend your a$$. Don't just hand your money over to the government and go 'Ok, huh huh, I did it, huh huh!'.

[FinalAeon]

think about it...

ur in a parking lot, someone see's u and calls u in.... the gov't sends u a ticket for $400... that's complete bs on their part..... they cant give u a ticket just cause someone "saw u do it".... i call this JUNK MAIL!

[Speed_Dreams]

Dan you know i think your a dumbass for doing this in broad daylight...but fight this ticket. nothing you do illegal is worth $402 ($402 is bullshit you can't even pay in $20 bills ) i highly doubt that you will acctaully get a ticket in the mail. but if you do don't deny the fact that your car was in the parking lot. get the guy that you know to come to court with you and tell them that you were just meeting there to go out for lunch of something. you have a witness that acctually showed up saying you didn't do anything.

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by LUDELVR
Essentially, you have to do one thing. Create reasonable doubt that you were in fact "not" doing anything to what they have charged you. You can even go so far as to proove that you were not there and that you were in fact someplace else. In order to do this, you'd need proof, so find out what time the witness said you were Stunting or racing and then if you were someplace else, that creates reasonable doubt! Of course this method may be BS, but then again, so is the ticket that you're getting! So you'd need someone to vouch for your whereabouts, or a receipt saying that you were eating lunch at that time and there's no way that you could have been at the accused location. And if they ask about your plate and how they got it, you drive by that area many times and maybe they saw you driving another day but in no way does that corrolate to the accusation at hand.

Anyway, you can have some great fun playing with the system, and especially with witnesses! hahahah :thumbsup:

:werd: If the witnesses do show up, they need to identify you as the driver. How do they know who was driving unless they looked you in the eye? Maybe your buddy borrowed the car and did it. That's all you need for reasonable doubt.

[Trafficlawyer]

First of all, a witness, civilian, non-police person, whatever you want to call them, is sufficient for charging someone under the Traffic Safety Act. In fact it's how most cases are prosecuted: civilian eye-witness testimony. If the witness provides to the police a story that is "reasonably likely" to have occurred, the police will lay a charge. Also, and many people don't know this, but if you witnessed someone committing an offence, you could go down to the Provincial Court or Supreme Court registry and have someone charged completely by yourself. There's probably a court fee, though. And, after laying this information and charging the person, you could if you wanted to privately prosecute the person, if you had the time. (If the case looks more important, the Crown will take it over, though).

Second, if the witnesses don't show that doesn't mean the case is stayed automatically. When I prosecuted cases in Winnipeg, I often had only 1 or 2 out of 5 or more subpoened witnesses, but this evidence/testimony was more than enough to send the guy away.

Third, if the witness identified your car and licence plate, and the police were actually diligent enough to check the whereabouts of all the other cars in town, they could narrow it down to your car. This is less likely to happen, but it does. And why not charge you as registered owner? You don't need to necessarily need to identify the driver in every instance.

Fourth, "maybe your buddy borrowed the car"? Are you really going to find someone to go and lie in court? Or, if not lie, then admit it was them driving? I've seen that before, and you know what happens? The police will follow you out of traffic court and follow you in your car to get you anyway. Believe me, I've seen that done. Have to be careful.

Fifth, the message re fine of $402 but can only pay in twenties: that is the funniest post-conviction punishment I've ever heard of! You have to withdraw at least $420 from the bank machine!

Good luck, though.
Adrian
Traffic Lawyer

www.trafficlawyer.ca
http://www.novusinc.ca/images/logos/traffic.gif

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by Trafficlawyer
And why not charge you as registered owner? You don't need to necessarily need to identify the driver in every instance.
A registered owner ticket is better than what he's facing now. No points for a registered owner ticket, right?




Originally posted by Trafficlawyer
Fourth, "maybe your buddy borrowed the car"? Are you really going to find someone to go and lie in court? Or, if not lie, then admit it was them driving?
I didn't intend for it to mean outright lie in court or even involve any friends. If you ask the witness "can you say absolutely that I was the driver, or perhaps it was my buddy you saw driving," wouldn't that create enough reasonable doubt to at least get the charge reduced to the aforementioned registered owner ticket?

[Trafficlawyer]

1. Yes, no points for a registered owner ticket.

2. No, I wasn't suggesting that you were recommending lying in court.

The Crown will, if they're doing their job, ask the witness: "And who was driving the vehicle?" The witness will either say, "he was" while pointing to the guy. Or, they'll say, I think/pretty sure it was him. If that is the case, then the only question to ask in cross-examination is: "You said that you thought I was the driver, correct? Therefore, you would agree with me that you are not completely sure, correct? And, given you were 150 meters away, there is an even greater chance that it might not have been me, correct?"

Another nice tactic to use, if you have an agent or someone like a lawyer in court, is to make sure the accused, or guy that got the ticket, sit somewhere in the gallery. The public waiting area in the courtroom where most people sit. Sit with everyone else and your lawyer should tell the judge that his client is seated in the courtroom--as opposed to sitting at the defendant's table where it's obvious he's the guy, and the witness will just naturally point to that person--because the case pivots on identification. So, when the witness takes the stand, the Crown will have to have the witness identify the driver. By that, they will have to physically point the person out . In a room full of people, the chances are low that the witness will actually be able to correctly identify the driver. And at that point, the agent/lawyer ought to make a motion for a court ordered stay of proceedings based on lack of identification being proven.

www.trafficlawyer.ca
Traffic Lawyer

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by Trafficlawyer
Another nice tactic to use...
Interesting tactic. :thumbsup:




Originally posted by Trafficlawyer
Fourth, "maybe your buddy borrowed the car"? Are you really going to find someone to go and lie in court? Or, if not lie, then admit it was them driving? I've seen that before, and you know what happens? The police will follow you out of traffic court and follow you in your car to get you anyway. Believe me, I've seen that done. Have to be careful.
I guess this could happen if a cop was the witness and you piss him off in court, but what do you mean by "...follow you in your car to get you anyway?" Will they tail you to see that you follow all traffic laws to the letter, or are they going to beat your ass like Rodney King?

[3G]

Originally posted by FiveFreshFish

Interesting tactic. :thumbsup:




I guess this could happen if a cop was the witness and you piss him off in court, but what do you mean by "...follow you in your car to get you anyway?" Will they tail you to see that you follow all traffic laws to the letter, or are they going to beat your ass like Rodney King?

That one won't really work in Calgary. The traffic court is right on the C-Train line and most people take the train to go there!

[SkylineAdmirer]

Just a thought....

Were these cars RWD,AWD,FWD???
were they even powerful enough to be on 2 wheels?
maybe u could demonstrate that ur car and his cant even be on 2 wheels and lower the witnesses credibility like that.