Legendboy!!! Mishibishi > Honda for Turbo Apps.

[Hollywood]

Split from another thread which is closed. Legedboy it's time to understand that Mitsubishi is a far better manufactor/platform for turbo applications than Honda in sooo many ways.

Stock
Mitsu > Honda

Built engines
Mitsu > Honda

Don't forget, Talons and Eclipses are not the only mishi cars out there.

1 word

EVO.

EVO engine > All honda's by far.

People defend what they love. IE: Honda guys defend honda's. Mitsu's defend mitsu's. I'm niether and I still stay mitsu is better.

Stirrrrr it up! I need a bigger spoon......

[Police]

:confused:

[ninspeed]

I think we should just solve this and have a 2.0l engine build off..
take the torque * boost and who ever is higher wins!

[ecstasy_civic]

no AWD dynos though:(

[finboy]

2.5 junkyard motor > all
*ducks for cover*
:rofl:

[finboy]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic
no AWD dynos though:(

fwd dsm

[Team_Mclaren]

engine dyno?
like the one they did in IT

[tsi_neal]

If you think an aluminum block with sleeved cylinders can take half as much boost as an overweight cast iron block than you are seriously misguided.

Thus mitsu wins.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by finboy


fwd dsm

come on Adam lol
most of these guys with big power are AWD lol

[rage2]

You can convert AWD DSM's to FWD in under 30 mins for dyno use.

[ecstasy_civic]

but from my understanding the dyno #'s are inaccurate when you do that

[finboy]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic


come on Adam lol
most of these guys with big power are AWD lol

VROOM VROOM VROOM SNAAAAAAP CRUCH ;) :rofl:

[dsmer]

dude legendboy can build a honda way better than a mitsu for less. didn't you hear him? you dont want to get banned like his threat to eclipseqt ....... apparently hondas are better for turbo applications :dunno:

[redline]

again

:drama:

:whocares:

[heavyD]

I admit to being a bit of a fanboy sometimes (but fully realize that mitsu's have their share of problems for sure) but if it walks like a duck & talks like a duck ...................;)

[rage2]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic
but from my understanding the dyno #'s are inaccurate when you do that
Why would it be inaccurate? It's putting down that many horsepower to the wheel, it's not hiding anything. When you switch it back to AWD, you'll have more drivetrain loss, and yes, less hp to the wheel, but flywheel HP doesn't change. It makes for a better comparison against other FWD cars in FWD mode, if anything, dynoing in AWD will make a comparison much harder between a non AWD car.

Originally posted by ninspeed
I think we should just solve this and have a 2.0l engine build off..
take the torque * boost and who ever is higher wins!
haha that would be interesting. I can predict the scenarios on pump gas already...

DSM vs CRV turbo - DSM wins hands down.
DSM vs CR-VTEC turbo - Even in hp, DSM wins in TQ.
DSM vs S2000 turbo - S2000 in hp, DSM wins in TQ.

Any other 2L combos that I missed? :)

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Hollywood
Legedboy it's time to understand that Mitsubishi is a far better manufactor/platform for turbo applications than Honda in sooo many ways.



oh god here we go lol! :drama:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by rage2

Why would it be inaccurate? It's putting down that many horsepower to the wheel, it's not hiding anything. When you switch it back to AWD, you'll have more drivetrain loss, and yes, less hp to the wheel, but flywheel HP doesn't change. It makes for a better comparison against other FWD cars in FWD mode, if anything, dynoing in AWD will make a comparison much harder between a non AWD car.

haha that would be interesting. I can predict the scenarios on pump gas already...

DSM vs CRV turbo - DSM wins hands down.
DSM vs CR-VTEC turbo - Even in hp, DSM wins in TQ.
DSM vs S2000 turbo - S2000 in hp, DSM wins in TQ.

Any other 2L combos that I missed? :)

The comparison is mistsu vs honda. So evo engine is a 2L. compare that engine to all the above and the evo will win all the comparisons.

[legendboy]

Twin turbo built 3.2L VTEC V6 NSX engine > all mitsu engines put together :zzz: lol

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by legendboy
Twin turbo built 3.2L VTEC V6 NSX engine > all mitsu engines put together :zzz: lol


Twin Turbo DSM Mills from the...oh there it is...Stealth/3000GT...


hmmmm...will still kill on a VTEC Mill...

[DSMer4Life]

I know the 4G63 can support upwards of 300HP on the stock bottom end. Can stock Honda blocks do that?:dunno: Of course I might be a little biased!:D

[rage2]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life
I know the 4G63 can support upwards of 300HP on the stock bottom end. Can stock Honda blocks do that?:dunno:
Yes it can.

[heavyD]

Just on another note. Did anyone notice that a 1G DSM won the 1/4 mile test on the latest SCC Ultimate street car challenge and Scott Gray's Eclipse is only mildly modified (FPgreen and 660 cc injectors). That makes it three years in a row that a DSM has been the fastest 1/4 ile car in the USCC against cars like Vipers, Skylines, Supras, MR2's, WRX's, etc.:D

[Primer_Drift]

^oops missread that :D
I thought u said it has been fastest 3 years in a row...
Scc 2002 (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0203scc_uscc9/)
A hyungay tiburon was the fastest 1/4 mile

[gpomp]

honda turbo f1 motor > any mitsu motor...

[legendboy]

Fuckaround i never knew the 4g63 was closed deck. I guess that is a major "one up" on honda engines http://www.telusplanet.net/public/legend88/Smiles/bowdown.gif

So there is an extra 1000 bux to build a honda engine for boost over the dsm engine.

[Primer_Drift]

K, I'm an avid honda guy. So when I say this I'm obviously not trying to knock honda. DSM 4g63 motors produce SAFER amounts of large boost than a honda does, generally speaking of course. If you throw all the money you've got at making a motor as bulletproof as possible, and try to get every last pony outta the thing.. I don't think there would be much difference in power output between the two. DSM's are great, its the attitudes their drivers adopt that tend to annoy.. Not everyone has to drive a DSM to be quick in the 1/4. It seems like die hard domestic guys have moved into a new era, a DSM owner who has trouble respecting other platforms..

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life
I know the 4G63 can support upwards of 300HP on the stock bottom end. Can stock Honda blocks do that?:dunno: Of course I might be a little biased!:D there are quite a few boosted Hondas on here that have made over 300hp on stock bottom end. So there goes that argument. Next!:devil:

[dsmer]

Originally posted by buh_buh
there are quite a few boosted Hondas on here that have made over 300hp on stock bottom end. So there goes that argument. Next!:devil:

keyword, few. I've known guys that blew their rods pushing 12 pounds, 230 fwhp. I hear preludes can handle more though? is it true :dunno:

[buh_buh]

no, QUITE a few.
If he's only making 230whp on 12psi its definately a tuning issue (and/or a junkyard setup) and not the lack of capability of the motor.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift
K, I'm an avid honda guy. So when I say this I'm obviously not trying to knock honda. DSM 4g63 motors produce SAFER amounts of large boost than a honda does, generally speaking of course. If you throw all the money you've got at making a motor as bulletproof as possible, and try to get every last pony outta the thing.. I don't think there would be much difference in power output between the two. DSM's are great, its the attitudes their drivers adopt that tend to annoy.. Not everyone has to drive a DSM to be quick in the 1/4. It seems like die hard domestic guys have moved into a new era, a DSM owner who has trouble respecting other platforms..


I wholeheartedly take offense to this statement...

I AM a DSMer...I love my DSM...and have put a lot of time and money into it...I have also owned other Makes/Models of vehicles...

To be fair, have not owned a Honda...BUT...having said that...since joining up to beyond...I have mode a lot of very close friends who drive Honda's...some mild...some wild...

and I have go to say this:

Although the DSM has a lil more potential right out fo the box (it's been proven), ie Scott Gray, Shep Racing Cars, Buschur, Ron from Revolution Motorsports, Jose from Arctic Racing...the Honda has a great amount of potential, and this has also been proven...look at the numbers that rage2 has tuned out of the lil open block mills...look at the dyno plots of our very own buh_buh, Dirty_Sohc, Lengedboy(when he was boosted)...the beasts that STRD rolls out of their doors...


Why the DSM v. Honda threads have to have so much hate and drama is beyond me, and a few other members that i have spoken too over the last couple of days...why it always has to turn into black v. white, men v. women, roe v. wade...cant we just agree that both parties have their pluses, AND their minuses??...

[heavyD]

Originally posted by CycloneAWD



I wholeheartedly take offense to this statement...

I AM a DSMer...I love my DSM...and have put a lot of time and money into it...I have also owned other Makes/Models of vehicles...

To be fair, have not owned a Honda...BUT...having said that...since joining up to beyond...I have mode a lot of very close friends who drive Honda's...some mild...some wild...

and I have go to say this:

Although the DSM has a lil more potential right out fo the box (it's been proven), ie Scott Gray, Shep Racing Cars, Buschur, Ron from Revolution Motorsports, Jose from Arctic Racing...the Honda has a great amount of potential, and this has also been proven...look at the numbers that rage2 has tuned out of the lil open block mills...look at the dyno plots of our very own buh_buh, Dirty_Sohc, Lengedboy(when he was boosted)...the beasts that STRD rolls out of their doors...


Why the DSM v. Honda threads have to have so much hate and drama is beyond me, and a few other members that i have spoken too over the last couple of days...why it always has to turn into black v. white, men v. women, roe v. wade...cant we just agree that both parties have their pluses, AND their minuses??...

No hate here. I have owned Hondas and in alot of ways they were the best cars I've ever owned. I'd rather have an S2000 over any DSM (save the EVO). I just like to have fun with some of these threads.;)

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by CycloneAWD

I wholeheartedly take offense to this statement...


:confused:^^ I meant no offense to anyone, simply stated my opinion. I don't know what it is that offended you either, as that wasn't really clear from your post. I was basically stating the same thing as "cant we just agree that both parties have their pluses, AND their minuses??...". I don't go around saying shit about a DSMs problems unless someone tries to tell me they are perfect speed machines, thats pure arrogance. I was simply saying the "Go DSM or go home" attitude often displayed on here that I don't appreciate.. Eg.


Originally posted by HeavyD
Leave the car stock! You are going to end up spending thousands of dollars for short term enjoyment and long term problems. If your Honda isn't fast enough for you buy a faster car. I love Hondas but there is a reason factory turbocharged cars are all the rage now.

Originally posted bye eclipseqt
7 grand can buy a 95 Talon TSi. So if you want to invest that much into your Civic and run 10 pounds, best of luck to you. For 7 grand I can make a Talon run 12s.

at any rate :whocares: Stock DSM-T > any stock honda.. end of story :closed:

[rage2]

OK Here's my take on Honda vs Mitsubishi.

If I was to build a project track car on a budget, Honda hands down over Mitsus (DSM's). Lots of free shit man, uberdata, free standalone. Can't beat that! Not to mention having a speed density setup stock. It's like they're asking to be turbocharged!

Now, if I wanted to do a fast daily driver/weekend track warrior, with a moderate budget, it'd be a Talon/Eclipse AWD turbo. The potential on these badboys are endless with mostly stock parts. The most expensive would be the standalone really, but they make great FAST daily drivers.

So really, what's better? It depends on your goals. End of discussion lol.

[redline]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life
I know the 4G63 can support upwards of 300HP on the stock bottom end. Can stock Honda blocks do that?:dunno: Of course I might be a little biased!:D

there are civics running 10s on totally stock engines and John Brown ran a really low 11s with a FMU :eek:

[redline]

Originally posted by dsmer


keyword, few. I've known guys that blew their rods pushing 12 pounds, 230 fwhp. I hear preludes can handle more though? is it true :dunno:

maybe in a single cam d series or with some shitty stock DSM turbo! :D

[redline]

Originally posted by legendboy

So there is an extra 1000 bux to build a honda engine for boost over the dsm engine.

they can use it to buy tranny parts... ;)

[legendboy]

I have yet to see a stock engine 4cy DSM run relative good times in person.

My integra was running low 13's (13.1 - 13.2 @ 108-109mph) on a STOCK 1.8L MOTOR running 11psi and making 265 dynojet whp, 242 lb ft of wheel tq. on god damn avid h4's!


Lets see some talons do the same at that power/boost level :cry:

(hell lets see some sr20 powered nissans do it! Hollywood, Mr. 299.3rwhp 13.6 :cry: ) :rofl:


Oh and that motor is perfectly fine after 2 years of boost, it was replaced with a 2.0L that I overboosted. The reason it was replaced was because of a cracked engine mount bolt hole in the block. There are several people who can verify that.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by legendboy
I have yet to see a stock engine 4cy DSM run good times in person.

My integra was running low 13's (13.1 - 13.2 @ 108-109mph) on a STOCK 1.8L MOTOR running 11psi and making 265 dynojet whp, 242 lb ft of wheel tq. on god damn avid h4's!

Lets see some talons do the same :cry:

:rofl:

that is pretty damn impressive

[rage2]

Originally posted by legendboy
Lets see some talons do the same at that power/boost level :cry:
careful... redec's talon is almost done. You know the specs :).

It's feeling damn fast at 6psi of boost. Gotta learn how to use that E-01!

[legendboy]

haha ya i'm sure he will, but it will be the first I've seen/heard of in calgary!

[rage2]

Don't all those crazy edmonton dsm's run stock engines? Those 11 and 12s ones? Always thought they do.

Good thing that redec didn't go ghetto (chips, MAF hacks, etc). MAP based standalone, the only way to go. It'll be interesting to see how far I can push that motor on pump gas. My first DSM!

He is worried about crank walk though... and the tranny haha.

[redline]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift


:


at any rate :whocares: Stock DSM-T > any stock honda.. end of story :closed:

i agree with the who cares but he is real life in calgary.

My friend had one of fastest FWD DSMs in town (this is a few years ago) he had 16g big, 510cc injecters, upgraded side mount etc... etc... all the free mods

I have a GSR turbo stock engine w/ drag Gen III turbo with FMU fuel managment.

I blew one engine, he blew 2 engines and three trannies.

And my car rocked his on pump gas w/ 8psi vs 18-19psi on the DSM

bottem line is all 4 cyl cars cost about the same to make fast and they all break so buy what you like... mod what you like and have fun

[redline]

Originally posted by rage2
Don't all those crazy edmonton dsm's run stock engines? Those 11 and 12s ones? Always thought they do.



no they are built!

[egmike]

Originally posted by legendboy
(hell lets see some sr20 powered nissans do it! Hollywood, Mr. 299.3rwhp 13.6 :cry: ) :rofl

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/thanem/69racist-legos-owned-med.jpeg

:rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by redline
bottem line is all 4 cyl cars cost about the same to make fast and they all break so buy what you like... mod what you like and have fun
Hondas have the free standalone advantage, thats why I prefer them for budget setup.

[redline]

Originally posted by rage2

Hondas have the free standalone advantage, thats why I prefer them for budget setup.

and DSMs have closed desk iron blocks and a turbo that can put the car into the 13s (atleast) stock.... 6 one way half a dozen the other... :drama:

[Boosted_TL]

I think that Legendboy and Honda may win this one as
it seem's to me that Hollywood cant even spell Mitsubishi
correct on the thread title. Bahahahahahaha

[DSMer4Life]

Originally posted by buh_buh
there are quite a few boosted Hondas on here that have made over 300hp on stock bottom end. So there goes that argument. Next!:devil:

Ok, maybe I should elborate. With a stock engine AND the lovely little 14B turbo that came with the car, a DSM can run close to the 300HP mark. Now I know the original agrument was in respect to engines only, but the fact that you can take a stock powertrain to that level with minor bolt-ons is impressive. I know Honda blocks can handle the power, but you're talking after forced induction is brought into the picture.

I ran 14.2 @ 93mph @ 18psi last year with a K&N, hacked MAS, 2.5" turbo-back, KYB AGXs/H&Rs, strut bars, street tires, re-wired fuel pump, 94 octane, stock clutch and no porting. Of course, this was with an AWD drivetrain. I know 13s are in the picture with a little porting, 2nd gen MAS, Stealth TT fuel pump, 550cc injectors, 2nd gen exhaust manifold & O2 housing, 3" exhaust, Supra MKIV IC and a S-AFC. I can't say I'd be making 300HP (I'm sure it would be close though), but being in 13s with a stock engine and stock turbo would be enough for me.

Oh, and I whole-heartedly agree that a few rotten DSMers spoil it for the whole bunch. I have love for all machines that put down the power. But, as with anything, you're gonna find those that are diehard to one specific brand/company/car. Don't hate the player, hate the game!:devil:

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by redline


maybe in a single cam d series or with some shitty stock DSM turbo! :D
Can a stock bottom end d-series even make 230whp??

Yes, DSMer4Life you are right about that. Stock for stock DSM will win hands down (as stated before). I would even consider a stock block turbo Honda as minor modding, and can withstand just as much power as a DSM. There have been several turbo Hondas with stock bottom end that have ran in the 108-109mph range, but will run similar times as a DSM since its FWD. There isn't really even a point of arguing anymore since nobody's going to give in.

[DSMer4Life]

Originally posted by buh_buh

There have been several turbo Hondas with stock bottom end that have ran in the 108-109mph range, but will run similar times as a DSM since its FWD.

See, I think this is where things would get interesting with a FWD DSM.:dunno:


Originally posted by buh_buh
There isn't really even a point of arguing anymore since nobody's going to give in.

There's only one way to settle this. DRAG WARZ!!!:tongue: And you better have more than that crotch-rocket next time. I'm sorry, the true ricer in me had to come out sooner, or later.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life
I ran 14.2 @ 93mph @ 18psi last year with a K&N, hacked MAS, 2.5" turbo-back, KYB AGXs/H&Rs, strut bars, street tires, re-wired fuel pump, 94 octane, stock clutch and no porting. Of course, this was with an AWD drivetrain. I know 13s are in the picture with a little porting, 2nd gen MAS, Stealth TT fuel pump, 550cc injectors, 2nd gen exhaust manifold & O2 housing, 3" exhaust, Supra MKIV IC and a S-AFC. I can't say I'd be making 300HP (I'm sure it would be close though), but being in 13s with a stock engine and stock turbo would be enough for me.

So stock civic's with basic cheap turbo kits (with junkyard t3's) are actually running faster than you.

14.1 at 101! Single cam 1.6L's stock. :thumbsup: (more than one too!)

[redline]

Originally posted by buh_buh

Can a stock bottom end d-series even make 230whp??



maybe but not for long :rofl:

[legendboy]

^ haha


B series > D series

[redline]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life



I ran 14.2 @ 93mph @ 18psi last year with a K&N, hacked MAS, 2.5" turbo-back, KYB AGXs/H&Rs, strut bars, street tires, re-wired fuel pump, 94 octane, stock clutch and no porting. Of course, this was with an AWD drivetrain. I know 13s are in the picture with a little porting, 2nd gen MAS, Stealth TT fuel pump, 550cc injectors, 2nd gen exhaust manifold & O2 housing, 3" exhaust, Supra MKIV IC and a S-AFC. I can't say I'd be making 300HP (I'm sure it would be close though), but being in 13s with a stock engine and stock turbo would be enough for me.



my friend ran 13.7@99 like 5 years ago in his AWD DSM with a fuel pump, 3" inch, manual boost controller,vp100, busher manifold, Center force clutch.

with all that crap you better run deep in the 13s

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL
I think that Legendboy and Honda may win this one as
it seem's to me that Hollywood cant even spell Mitsubishi
correct on the thread title. Bahahahahahaha

I spelt it wrong on purpose hero!! DRRRR.


Originally posted by buh_buh
there are quite a few boosted Hondas on here that have made over 300hp on stock bottom end. So there goes that argument. Next!:devil:

EVERY boosted honda I know of burns oil and or coolant. I know quite a few. Yes they may no blow right away but they show signs of wear quite fast after turboing, and slowly deteriorate. I applaud hondo owners but compared to a real turbo engine they are behind.

The evo almost has 300hp stock, and passes emissions!!


Originally posted by legendboy
I have yet to see a stock engine 4cy DSM run relative good times in person.

My integra was running low 13's (13.1 - 13.2 @ 108-109mph) on a STOCK 1.8L MOTOR running 11psi and making 265 dynojet whp, 242 lb ft of wheel tq. on god damn avid h4's!


Lets see some talons do the same at that power/boost level :cry:

(hell lets see some sr20 powered nissans do it! Hollywood, Mr. 299.3rwhp 13.6 :cry: ) :rofl:


Oh and that motor is perfectly fine after 2 years of boost, it was replaced with a 2.0L that I overboosted. The reason it was replaced was because of a cracked engine mount bolt hole in the block. There are several people who can verify that.

I had 270hp then and you have a fully gutted interior, major hp to wieght ratio advantage i'd say.

I would never say your honda was "perfectly" fine.

Turbo Vtec honda = free smoke screen when VTEC kicks in!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by Hollywood

EVERY boosted honda I know of burns oil and or coolant. I know quite a few.... Turbo Vtec honda = free smoke screen when VTEC kicks in!!!! :rofl: :rofl: mine doesn't at all. You've seen my tail lights many times you should know :poosie:


Originally posted by Hollywood

I applaud hondo owners but compared to a real turbo engine they are behind.
How much R&D goes into a factory turbo engine and how much R&D goes into a turbo Honda? Of course turbo Hondas are far behind! But that's not what the argument is!

[legendboy]

AHH HAHA Hollywood took you long enough to think up a comeback! I saw you were online for like half an hour before you posted beech! :rofl:

[Expiredsoda]

My stock D16Z @ 10 psi has run absolutely flawless for 4 months and counting, no coolant or oil problems. She is pretty damned fast to.

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by Hollywood

Turbo Vtec honda = free smoke screen when VTEC kicks in!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

hahah funny thing is vtec burns a little oil without turbo (its a longevity thing), and its not a smokescreen unless you've detonated your rings out. So wtf are you trying to say- It burns more with turbo? Have any numerical data on that?

[ZorroAMG]

Post removed etc,,,

sheeit, I was ony trying to lighten the mood...LOL

DSM VS honda will probably outlive us all, why not simply appreciate them for what they are?

[dsmer]

Originally posted by legendboy
I have yet to see a stock engine 4cy DSM run relative good times in person.

My integra was running low 13's (13.1 - 13.2 @ 108-109mph) on a STOCK 1.8L MOTOR running 11psi and making 265 dynojet whp, 242 lb ft of wheel tq. on god damn avid h4's!


lets see the slip. anyone can make up shit.

[rage2]

Originally posted by redline
and DSMs have closed desk iron blocks and a turbo that can put the car into the 13s (atleast) stock.... 6 one way half a dozen the other... :drama:
closed deck, open deck. Honestly, it doesn't matter unless you're dipping into race gas and super high boost. In which case, the stock rings would blowby before the block would blow. Stock Honda (b series or h series) and Stock DSM's (talons) are more than strong enough to hit the knock limits of pump gas (even 94 octane) reliably, day to day, without blowing up.

The factor is, tuning.

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
DSM VS honda will probably outlive us all, why not simply appreciate them for what they are?
haha because we're just fucking with Hollywood lol.

Originally posted by dsmer
lets see the slip. anyone can make up shit.
He's not making shit up. I ran against him on that run. I outlaunched him in my Renntech AMG, and he fucking caught up and pulled away from me.
:drama:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by legendboy
AHH HAHA Hollywood took you long enough to think up a comeback! I saw you were online for like half an hour before you posted beech! :rofl:

What are you a beyond stalker???? Hahaha, I was working at the same time.


Originally posted by Primer_Drift


hahah funny thing is vtec burns a little oil without turbo (its a longevity thing), and its not a smokescreen unless you've detonated your rings out. So wtf are you trying to say- It burns more with turbo? Have any numerical data on that?

That fact that you said "detonated your rings out" you do not know that you are talking about. Please dont make any more attempts at technical talk.

Numerical data? WTF are you talking about. All I have to do is drive behind one!

[rage2]

One thing that a lot of people haven't mentioned is that hondas (not preludes) are generally a lot lighter than DSM's. So even if they're making the same power, the Hondas will still win.

[egmike]

Originally posted by buh_buh

Can a stock bottom end d-series even make 230whp??



I made 205whp on tomas Mustang dyno... so if you work it out thats just over 230whp on a dynojet. :nut:
When I boosted my d16 it had 200,000 kms and I recently pulled it out with 255K on it, wasnt blown but was burning oil at high revs. Never blew a headgasket and never broke down.

and All u d series haters can eat my ass :rofl:

[finboy]

Originally posted by rage2


He's not making shit up. I ran against him on that run. I outlaunched him in my Renntech AMG, and he fucking caught up and pulled away from me.
:drama:

and his bumper fell off, classic moments at race city :rofl:

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by egmike
I made 205whp on tomas Mustang dyno... so if you work it out thats just over 230whp on a dynojet. :nut: oh yeah thats right I forgot Dynojets still existed:rofl:

[LUDELVR]

First of all, I can attest to the broken bolt hole on the block...that was kinda scary actually!!:eek:

At any rate, With my old "shitty fmu turbo" setup, I've kept up with a few sr20's! ;) haha, but that was when they were at stock boost levels. With my latest setup, I was keeping up with a fair amount of moderate street bikes and some other high hp cars. But whatever, we don't condone that shit here....anymore! :devil:

But if we're comparing stock vs. stock, I'd still take a honda over the mitsu. I had a chance to drive a stock talon, fwd, and I was taking a corner and the car felt really unstable! So much body roll I thought if I went any faster it would flip. As for straight line shootout, I went from a stop with a few fwd's and I ended out on top in the end. Don't ge me wrong, when I drove that car, it felt very fast, but then again, that was the first turbo'd car I've ever driven.

[eclipseqt]

Cool. I think n/a engines should be built first though to handle the excess boost. It would be more reliable and cost less in the longer run. I know peeps that fucked their rings pretty quickly.

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by Hollywood

That fact that you said "detonated your rings out" you do not know that you are talking about. Please dont make any more attempts at technical talk.

Numerical data? WTF are you talking about. All I have to do is drive behind one!

Mmm okie, well if you want to get technical about it. Exerpt from my self-ownage thread.


Originally posted by legendboy
Here is a picture from the mike laskey racing team in cali and a blurb of information that might help explain things.


http://members.cox.net/elaskey/p2x.jpg

&quot;You scarred up the skirt of the piston, messed up the surface of the cylinder wall and maybe even egg shaped the cylinder. New pistons are tapered smaller on the top to larger at the bottom of the skirt. Your piston to wall clearance is measured at the bottom of the skirt. As the engine warms up to operating temperature, the upper portion of the piston begins to expand slightly. The bottom of the skirt does not expand much. When you boost in a lean condition <-- result is detonation, the upper part of the piston expands quickly. Since the ring land area is cut smaller than the tapered skirt below it, the first part of the piston that pushes into the cylinder wall is just below the oil ring. Thus you will see the worst scarring on your piston right under the ring lands where the excess heat is the highest. The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninformed would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance. Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls. &quot;

As for numerical data.. yeah like a amount of oil consumed by a turbo honda vs stock?? No idea? Back your shit up, the ones you've driven behind could be burning for any number of reasons, not necessarily because they are turbocharged and hitting vtec..

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by eclipseqt
Cool. I think n/a engines should be built first though to handle the excess boost. It would be more reliable and cost less in the longer run. I know peeps that fucked their rings pretty quickly. But they don't NEED it if you have proper tuning.
And I don't see how it would cost less in the long run if you did it first, because you'd have to replace the pistons anyways if you were getting blowby.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by dsmer
lets see the slip. anyone can make up shit.

Well becides the fact that I do have slips but no scanner, i definatly don't have to prove anything. Tons of people saw me do it all night. There was even a video somewhere but hell if I can find it. How do you think i got my user title :D



Originally posted by finboy
and his bumper fell off, classic moments at race city :rofl:

haha ya that run my rear bumper flew off half way down the track, I let off and and hit the brakes and still ran a 14.1 @ 87mph
:rofl:

[dsmer]

Originally posted by legendboy

Well becides the fact that I do have slips but no scanner, i definatly don't have to prove anything. Tons of people saw me do it all night. There was even a video somewhere but hell if I can find it. How do you think i got my user title :D


rage2 saw it :D i believe you. tuning must be an important thing in turboing a honda huh? never knew that. learn something everyday.

i see a bunch of people with forged internals on a honda though with no problems that s why im biased

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by dsmer
tuning must be an important thing in turboing a honda huh?
shouldn't that be true of all modded (FI) cars?


Originally posted by dsmer
i see a bunch of people with forged internals on a honda though with no problemswhy would you risk blowing up a motor that you just spent all that money on trying to prevent it from blowing up by not getting a standalone?:banghead:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift


Mmm okie, well if you want to get technical about it. Exerpt from my self-ownage thread.

As for numerical data.. yeah like a amount of oil consumed by a turbo honda vs stock?? No idea? Back your shit up, the ones you've driven behind could be burning for any number of reasons, not necessarily because they are turbocharged and hitting vtec..


Dude, no one says "detonated your rings out".

And like im going to measure peoples oil levels........ What are you thinking??? Ludelvr, Egmike, Legend boy, Buh_Buh, Dirty Soch, SuperSC, they are all my good friends, all have turbo honda's, I drive behind them all the time, they all have blow by. Even legendboys N/A honda.


Originally posted by dsmer
rage2 saw it :D i believe you. tuning must be an important thing in turboing a honda huh? never knew that. learn something everyday.


Uhhh, that goes for any car, not just honda.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Hollywood
they all have blow by. Even legendboys N/A honda.




Fuck man i paid $120 bux for my complete block! What do you expect haha :rofl:

[benyl]

I have been a victim of that $120 smoke screen generator... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dsmer]

i know every car need tuning but according to what im seeing, it looks like hondas need more attention.

also, standalone you are refering to an ECU?

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by dsmer
i know every car need tuning but according to what im seeing, it looks like hondas need more attention.
no, I just think Honda guys are more careful.
If you gave it "less attention", you would make less hp and/or your car isn't running as good as it could be. That goes for any car.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by buh_buh
no, I just think Honda guys are more careful.
If you gave it &quot;less attention&quot;, you would make less hp and/or your car isn't running as good as it could be. That goes for any car.


Kevin hit this on the head...

Honda guys/gals are far more careful when it comes to tuning...you take the average DSMer, and they throw boost at the motors...then they get higher counts of knock they add a lil bit of fuel...

Honda people on the other hand...take the time/energy/money to roll their cars onto a Dyno and fiddle with A/F's and timing to perfect the fuel curves, and timing...yes things can go wrong, things no one ever accounts for, a misfire, a bad tank of gas, spike that can/will end a nice block...whether open deck or closed, aluminium (SR's, Honda's) or cast iron...


I still dont see why we are arguing all this...

[egmike]

Originally posted by dsmer


also, standalone you are refering to an ECU?


Most of us use Chipped ECU with Uberdata , kinda like hondata but free :thumbsup:

[legendboy]

I personally use a Puerto Rican midget with a spray bottle of gasoline underhood. His name is Rico. He squirts in extra needed fuel under boost with one hand, and retards my distributor with the other... or at least he does if he knows what's good for him....

[buh_buh]

:rofl:

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by legendboy
I personally use a Puerto Rican midget with a spray bottle of gasoline underhood. His name is Rico. He squirts in extra needed fuel under boost with one hand, and retards my distributor with the other... or at least he does if he knows what's good for him....

Midgetdata, yeah I've heard of that. I bet tuning him must be a pain in the ass..

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by legendboy
I personally use a Puerto Rican midget with a spray bottle of gasoline underhood. His name is Rico. He squirts in extra needed fuel under boost with one hand, and retards my distributor with the other... or at least he does if he knows what's good for him....

haha :rofl: classic!! :rofl:

[redline]

Originally posted by legendboy
I personally use a Puerto Rican midget with a spray bottle of gasoline underhood. His name is Rico. He squirts in extra needed fuel under boost with one hand, and retards my distributor with the other... or at least he does if he knows what's good for him....

is that what cause your over boost? :rofl: :rofl:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by redline


is that what cause your over boost? :rofl: :rofl:

No, no, he was tring to stick his cock in his tail pipe while his girlfriend was revving the car!!!! He's into some freeky porn shit with cars!!! You dont want to hear about the flat tire inncodent either.......poor tire.:poosie:

[kolumbo69]

Well i think this is what wins it right here cost when you start your build. For either the if you buy the cheapest of either off of canada trader the honda will cost you 1200 the eagle talon will cost you 3800 so right there works for me when building my next tuner car.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by kolumbo69
Well i think this is what wins it right here cost when you start your build. For either the if you buy the cheapest of either off of canada trader the honda will cost you 1200 the eagle talon will cost you 3800 so right there works for me when building my next tuner car.

Yikes! I assume that you have a ton of money because $1200 or $3800 is beater car prices.

[googe]

where is cavb0i when you need him?

[gorillam]

Originally posted by googe
where is cavb0i when you need him?

I will be cavb0i for this thread.

______________________________________________

u get a cav engine throw on some nitros and blow by all teh stupid mitsuz and hondaz. cavs rule

[kolumbo69]

no im just cheap. l0l I know a good ef is going to be like 2500-3000 but a good talon is what around 6000. so there still would be some difference in start out pricing. This is all based on the average budget racer.

[talonboi]

anyone remember the talon with the integra front end, with white dragons on the sides? im friends with the owner, hes been having it storaged for awhile. juss changing sume parts...but it'll be interesting to see it run next spring...when he first took it out i think he was running 14psi?
as for the topic i think both honda's and dsm's have their pros/cons, i must admit from personal experiance, honda's far more reliable then dsm...but not to sure when the honda is turbo'd. but arent all cars unreliable when the boost is too high??

[kolumbo69]

One thing i would prais e a dsm for is awd, must be nice to turn down the boost and have a all year round car. errg i hate winter especially with a ae86.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by kolumbo69
One thing i would prais e a dsm for is awd, must be nice to turn down the boost and have a all year round car. errg i hate winter especially with a ae86.


why turn the boost down??;) thats what AWD is for man:D

[Toms-SC]

Take it to Race City boys, and my money is on Cory

[2.0turbo]

Originally posted by DSMer4Life
I know the 4G63 can support upwards of 300HP on the stock bottom end. Can stock Honda blocks do that?:dunno: Of course I might be a little biased!:D

400 hp on a stock 6 bolt is a little more accurate. 7 bolt might be pushing it a little as the rods are quite small compared to a 6 bolt (90-92.5). Either way, more power and more boost can be derived from a 4g63 turbo cause it is made for a turbo. We would be better to compare the stock lancer motor to a civic motor. In that case I would say they would be just about the same for power output once they have been boosted. Comparing a Honda motor to any motor that comes from the factory with a turbo is comparing apples to oranges. One is obviously better than the other.

[finboy]

Originally posted by 2.0turbo


One is obviously better than the other.

it appears you didn't read the thread :dunno: