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celica girl
12-08-2004, 10:42 AM
My mom has a '97 528i and she wants HIDs. I was wondering if anyone has installed a Phillips HID kid into a BMW. Would it be better to just try and get OEM HIDs?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



http://www.geocities.com/t_c_sarac/HID01_p1.txt

R-Audi
12-08-2004, 10:45 AM
Shoudnt be much diferent then the stock ones, PM FiveFreshFish or Calgary B5, they both have fairly extensive HID knowledge

benyl
12-08-2004, 11:21 AM
For her to get an OEM system, it would cost $2-5000.

You would have to get the Ballasts and bulbs $500

You would have to get new headlight housings $500 - $1000 a piece

You would have to get a whole new headlight wiring set. The halogen wiring can't handle the power draw of the HID system at startup. $1500

You would have to get the leveling system for them to be legal here in Canada. I have no idea how much this would cost.

Getting an aftermarket HID kit might work, but chance are that she will blind on coming traffic depending on how good the cut off of the halogen system is. At the very least, she will have to point her lights lower toward the ground to avoid doing that. She also risks getting pulled over for an illegal mod.

bart
12-08-2004, 11:27 AM
when it comes to HID, go oem or go home. i've seen so many aftermarket ones, they are shit, mostly because people put them in non-projector housings, and if they do get aftermarket projectors, they are still shit. ;)

i've also noticed that here in NA the "DOT" certified HIDs are crap too, they blind oncoming cars badly. for some reason, they are all aimed really high. better you get something from germany, they will be better than NA spec ones.

goes to show whoever running transportation canada is a dumb nut: ie: HIDS aimed however, "bumper" laws because canadians are dumb drivers, etc etc

Tuner1
12-08-2004, 12:07 PM
We have great deals on OEM HID + headlight kits, but they still aren't cheap. Give us a try if you are interested in the complete packages :) We also sell high quality aftermarket HID kits that do work well, but won't give you the same performance as OEM.

Rob

ZorroAMG
12-08-2004, 12:11 PM
N/A halogen + HID = bullshit glare

Euro spec Halogen + HID = great with proper aiming.

OEM HID = Best but costly

EnRich
12-08-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by bart
when it comes to HID, go oem or go home. i've seen so many aftermarket ones, they are shit, mostly because people put them in non-projector housings, and if they do get aftermarket projectors, they are still shit. ;)

i've also noticed that here in NA the "DOT" certified HIDs are crap too, they blind oncoming cars badly. for some reason, they are all aimed really high. better you get something from germany, they will be better than NA spec ones.

goes to show whoever running transportation canada is a dumb nut: ie: HIDS aimed however, "bumper" laws because canadians are dumb drivers, etc etc

Yea this guy doesn't know what he's talking about... I just recently bought an HID system from tunerworks, and a new non projector headlight casing that are almost exactly the same as my oem was... I've tested it, and when I first installed it, the beams were too high, so I adjusted it, so the beams are lower... Their awesome, everyone's complimented on them, all of a sudden all my friends are in the market for these HIDs... Good buy, 650 for the HID, 400 for the case....

EnRich
12-08-2004, 12:44 PM
pic

celica girl
12-08-2004, 01:42 PM
Thanks guys... I appreciate all the advice. It's just that there's a group buy going on where I can get a Phillips Kit (the exact one in the picture above) 4300K for $220 USD. So I want to get in on that asap. If I need to get new housings for her later on it shouldn't be a problem. I guess I could always sell the kit if it didn't work out.

interlude
12-08-2004, 02:51 PM
Call Will at Speedtech. I picked mine up from him for a good price, plus it comes with a warranty from STRD if they install it as well. I have the 8000k hid kit on my 2000 323i

benyl
12-08-2004, 02:51 PM
220 USD is cheap.

I paid $500USD 2 years ago for the same style groupbuy. That was over $800 CDN back then.

CRXguy
12-08-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by celica girl
Thanks guys... I appreciate all the advice. It's just that there's a group buy going on where I can get a Phillips Kit (the exact one in the picture above) 4300K for $220 USD. So I want to get in on that asap. If I need to get new housings for her later on it shouldn't be a problem. I guess I could always sell the kit if it didn't work out.

who's holding the groupbuy?

celica girl
12-08-2004, 03:31 PM
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=156122

Before anyone tells me it's not legit we are using www.escrow.com to handle the money for us... so there is no worries about not getting the product.

Kaos
12-08-2004, 04:05 PM
Thats a pretty long list of ppl for a massive group-buy.
I want in.
I just dont wanna sign up to that forum.

bart
12-08-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by EnRich


Yea this guy doesn't know what he's talking about... I just recently bought an HID system from tunerworks, and a new non projector headlight casing that are almost exactly the same as my oem was... I've tested it, and when I first installed it, the beams were too high, so I adjusted it, so the beams are lower... Their awesome, everyone's complimented on them, all of a sudden all my friends are in the market for these HIDs... Good buy, 650 for the HID, 400 for the case....

ok, please post your night time spread, we'll go from there... ;)

i'll start:

http://servfiles.com/1080/

Chester
12-08-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by bart


ok, please post your night time spread, we'll go from there... ;)

i'll start:



guarenteed your spread and cutoff is going to be better

nismodrifter
12-08-2004, 08:01 PM
^^ exactly so I have no idea why Enrich is goin on and on about his lights being superior and bart not knowing what he is talkin about. OEM goodness pwnz all

t-im
12-08-2004, 08:32 PM
off topic

would that kit (for that celica or whatever group buy)

work for my e36?

how much would it cost for someone to install it?

or is it just not worth the time and effort to do that because it'll be shitty and blind people

Kaos
12-08-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by t-im
off topic

would that kit (for that celica or whatever group buy)

work for my e36?

how much would it cost for someone to install it?

or is it just not worth the time and effort to do that because it'll be shitty and blind people

First you'll need Euro Ellipsoid headlights (you probably knew that anyways) and then get the Hid's and it should look something similar to Barts pictures (or even better).

Its an easy do-it-yourself job, totally worth it.

t-im
12-08-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Kaos


First you'll need Euro Ellipsoid headlights (you probably knew that anyways) and then get the Hid's and it should look something similar to Barts pictures (or even better).

Its an easy do-it-yourself job, totally worth it.

actually, I didn't know that..haha i'm pretty stuipd about this

How much would this whole thing cost me?..and I don't think

i'd be able to do it myself (i'm not exactly mechanical)

thanks!

Kaos
12-08-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by t-im


actually, I didn't know that..haha i'm pretty stuipd about this

How much would this whole thing cost me?..and I don't think

i'd be able to do it myself (i'm not exactly mechanical)

thanks!

Im not exactly sure how much it would cost you for install.

If you were gonna buy euro ellipsoid headlights, I would suggest buying ZKW (2nd best to my standards but affordable) or BOSCH (Expensive but very good cut-off quality) http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/buttrock.gif

IMO, any other brand like DEPO or DJ Auto, are garbage. I've read that they tend to fog up.

Heres a sample pic of ZKW and DJ Auto in action
ZKW on the Left, DJ Auto on the right
No comparison.
ZKW owns!!!!!
http://mysite.verizon.net/mayorfamily/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/PA230215.jpg

2m0a0x2
12-10-2004, 08:20 PM
DEPO is not really that bad. I wanted DJ auto but umnitza sent me depo, however, they're not as bad as everyone thinks. Mine aren't even aimed properly yet (no time), but here are some pictures. The cut off isn't bad.

This pic is when it was warming up, but I used it for 15 mins before I washed my car and turned these on. BTW, these are 6000k XTEC hids.

2m0a0x2
12-10-2004, 08:20 PM
cut off

once again, i haven't had time to aim properly

ZorroAMG
12-10-2004, 10:42 PM
^ Wow...those are brutal.

2m0a0x2
12-10-2004, 11:59 PM
LOL are you serious? i said they're not aimed right...

Chester
12-11-2004, 12:25 AM
Yah the cutoff looks fine, other than the aiming.

bart
12-11-2004, 02:13 AM
they should be:

.....___ ___ (ignore the dots, it wont let me do only spaces)
__/ __/

and not:

___/|___/|

and you can still see that most of the light is being focused in the middle, and its not being distributed evenly...

benyl
12-11-2004, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2
LOL are you serious? i said they're not aimed right...

Aiming has nothing to do with the hotspots you have in the middle.

You probably get WAY better vision out of the halogen bulbs you had.

The rebased bulbs you bought were obviously not optimized for the housing.

The cutoff is nice, but most euro cars have that kind of cut off.

Proper hid lighting should look like Bart's photo. Evenly distributed all over the place.

2m0a0x2
12-11-2004, 02:53 AM
even the ZKW's in Kaos' pics are like that though......And I did NOT have better lighting with my halogens.

Oh, what do you mean by rebased bulbs? They're H1 bulbs for my projector headlights which also take H1.

I'll take pics next to my dad's E60 w/ oem HID some time tommorow maybe

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by celica girl
Thanks guys... I appreciate all the advice. It's just that there's a group buy going on where I can get a Phillips Kit (the exact one in the picture above) 4300K for $220 USD. So I want to get in on that asap. If I need to get new housings for her later on it shouldn't be a problem. I guess I could always sell the kit if it didn't work out.


The HID kit shown in your first post uses rebased D2S bulbs presumably to fit the stock halogen housings. The US halogen housing of the 528i is a reflector type and the performance gains will be nowhere near that of OE HIDs. As others have already stated, you'll get huge glare with the rebased D2S HID bulbs (which are not suited for reflector type headlight housings).

If you buy this kit for the existing headlights, you won't be able to use it when you get the OE HIDs. Save your money and do it right the first time.

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
^ Wow...those are brutal.

Originally posted by bart
and you can still see that most of the light is being focused in the middle, and its not being distributed evenly...

Originally posted by benyl
Aiming has nothing to do with the hotspots you have in the middle.

Let me clear up this misunderstanding. The HOTSPOTS you see in 2m0a0x2's beam pattern is because the photo was shot too close to the wall, or in this case the inside of his garage door. Distance should be about 25 ft for photos and for aiming.

Even Bart's headlight pattern will show hotspots without sufficient distance to the wall, and his are the real deal OE Euro HIDs.

______________________


Here is a photo of OE Euro HIDs in action, a few feet away from the garage door. Valeo housings, Philips 4100K bulbs, Philips 35W ballasts. You can see the circular hotspots and the apparent uneven distribution.

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 04:01 AM
We rolled the car back to sit about 20 ft from the door. As you can see, the beam pattern is more even and the hotspots are essentially gone. Much better! :)

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 04:13 AM
This pic was taken in a parkade, about 25 to 30 ft from the wall. I can't get that distance on my driveway because of its slope.

No hotspots, no uneven distribution. :love:

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2
And I did NOT have better lighting with my halogens.

:werd:

Here is the shitty OE US halogen headlight pattern. Yes, I know it's not properly aimed.

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2
Oh, what do you mean by rebased bulbs? They're H1 bulbs for my projector headlights which also take H1.

A standard D2S bulb with ballast looks like this:
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/euros/dsc01701.jpg

...and fits into the HID bulb socket (left). Right socket is for halogen H7 bulb.
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/euros/dsc01775.jpg

______________________


A D2S rebased to H1 looks like this:

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 04:37 AM
... and fits into the H1 socket.

2m0a0x2
12-11-2004, 11:55 AM
oooh sexxy pictures:D

yeah, my cut off thing was taken maybe just over a foot away from my garage door;)

Im having trouble aiming my lights cause I just cant seen to get it low enough......without hearing the dreaded POP.

FiveFresh, your pics make me wish i got ZKW and HID instad of DEPO/HID/DDE....fuck!

bart
12-11-2004, 08:04 PM
ok, here we gooooooo:

6 inches
http://servfiles.com/1893/

1 meter
http://servfiles.com/1894/

6 meters (repeat)
http://servfiles.com/1080/

100 meters
http://servfiles.com/1896/

220 meters (contrast and brightness increased for test purposes)
http://servfiles.com/1897/
http://servfiles.com/1898/

long side view
http://servfiles.com/1899/

and finally the headlamps
http://servfiles.com/1079/

-bart

EnRich
12-11-2004, 08:08 PM
Very nice man...

bart
12-11-2004, 08:11 PM
hey FFF, what car are those Valeo's for?

btw anyone look for good headlamps, Valeo are good ones, same with Hella, if you go aftermarket. Mine are OEM, but made by BOSCH. Bulbs I use are 4100k OSRAM's.

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2
FiveFresh, your pics make me wish i got ZKW and HID instad of DEPO/HID/DDE....fuck!
Actually, those HID pics are Audi Valeos because I haven't taken any photos of my ZKWs at different distances.



Originally posted by bart
hey FFF, what car are those Valeo's for?

btw anyone look for good headlamps, Valeo are good ones, same with Hella, if you go aftermarket. Mine are OEM, but made by BOSCH. Bulbs I use are 4100k OSRAM's.
The E-code Valeos are from my former S4, but your lights are stunning and the different distance shots show just how good the Bosch optics are. PG Performance (http://www.pgperformance.com/xenong4.htm) wants $2595 for your setup. :eek:

bart
12-11-2004, 08:49 PM
nice! s4 is one of my favorite cars... B5 or B6?

ya my lights are pretty pricey, you've gotta pay to play.

i've had depos before these ones, so i learned my lesson, its only oem stuff for me, i will only go aftermarket if that is the only route and i absolutely need it.

my lenses are glass, so i had them immediately 3m'ed with that 7mm plastic, guaranteed not to crack (my depos did without the protection from rocks) and i dont want them speckling either, i rather pay $60 a year to get a layer of 3m then wrecking these lights.

they also have leveling motors for auto leveling, but i dont have that yet. i'm still thinking about it, its like another $1000 for all the parts, and you have to take half the car apart to install it, and somehow wire them to the ECU, so i dunno.

the next mod is the headlight washer kit (how they come out of the bumper and blast the lights... very needed in winter time)

FiveFreshFish
12-11-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by bart
nice! s4 is one of my favorite cars... B5 or B6?
B5. Man, I have yet to drive a B6!



Originally posted by bart
they also have leveling motors for auto leveling, but i dont have that yet. i'm still thinking about it, its like another $1000 for all the parts, and you have to take half the car apart to install it, and somehow wire them to the ECU, so i dunno.
Have you considered doing a manual level controller, or would the work and cost be similar to an auto-level setup? I've seen a thumbwheel adjuster mod for headlight level control done on a VAG car but can't remember which one.

2m0a0x2
12-11-2004, 09:51 PM
I gotta hand it to you though bart, I DOUBT mine will ever be as good as yours....hell, my dad's active headlights on his E60 are probably not as good as yours;) good job;)

I'm thinking I should return these and pay more for ZKWs....umnitza said I can do that if I wish.....and I'm not satisfied:tongue:

bart
12-11-2004, 09:58 PM
ya i can get a manual rheostat, then i can aim them manually, it goes right beside the dimmer wheel on the inside, then i can raise or lower them, but its not as cool, i want that automatic (down then up) motion when you first turn them on.... :)

the manual way is something like $200, so not bad, if i do it, it will probably be that.

2m...: lol thanks, well do whatever you want, their your lights! just thought i'd share what "other" HIDs look like, ie: mine, so others can gauge and compare, etc...

2m0a0x2
12-11-2004, 10:26 PM
Well I looked at my dad's tonight, and ....mine are lacking. I'm thinking of putting better projectors in mine now;) But I still have yet to aim, so I'll see after that.

Kaos
12-11-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2

Im having trouble aiming my lights cause I just cant seen to get it low enough......without hearing the dreaded POP.



From what I hear that DEPO is notorious for aiming, apparently the teeth to adjust the aiming, just spin and nothing happens.
I dont know if you have that problem.
If you want them properly aimed to spec, I think Calgary BMW has a machine which properly adjusts them, I dont know if you wanna pay for that, considering you could do it yourself.

All these pictures are sooo goooooood....
I cant wait till I slap mine in....:D

Seanith
12-11-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by benyl
For her to get an OEM system, it would cost $2-5000.


You would have to get a whole new headlight wiring set. The halogen wiring can't handle the power draw of the HID system at startup. $1500



Or you could get something like the user "Alpha" was selling, which is a HID harness kit that takes the brunt of the initial high power draw needed to start up HIDS. It will cost a fraction of a fraction of getting a new wiring set :)

2m0a0x2
12-11-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Kaos


From what I hear that DEPO is notorious for aiming, apparently the teeth to adjust the aiming, just spin and nothing happens.
I dont know if you have that problem.
If you want them properly aimed to spec, I think Calgary BMW has a machine which properly adjusts them, I dont know if you wanna pay for that, considering you could do it yourself.

All these pictures are sooo goooooood....
I cant wait till I slap mine in....:D

YOU CAN PAY TO HAVE IT DONE AT THE DEALERSHIP?

shit! im just gonna go do that.........(no that wasn't sarcasm, I really never thought of going to the dealership for this aftermarket shit)

Kaos
12-11-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2


YOU CAN PAY TO HAVE IT DONE AT THE DEALERSHIP?

shit! im just gonna go do that.........(no that wasn't sarcasm, I really never thought of going to the dealership for this aftermarket shit)

Thats what I was told.
My friend told me that he got his ZKW's adjusted from there.
He was charged an hour labour but he didnt have to get his hands dirty.
Thats what Im gonna do. I'd rather do that and not stress about proper aim.

2m0a0x2
12-12-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Kaos


Thats what I was told.
My friend told me that he got his ZKW's adjusted from there.
He was charged an hour labour but he didnt have to get his hands dirty.
Thats what Im gonna do. I'd rather do that and not stress about proper aim.

well how much was that?

and I better fix my aiming screw before I bring it in.....or else they'll be like wtf..

FiveFreshFish
12-12-2004, 05:32 AM
If you want to save $95 or whatever BMW charges for labour, here are the DIY instructions to visually aim the headlights without a beam setter (machine to aim lights):
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/images/Beam_aim.jpg

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/images/Beam_aim.jpg

2m0a0x2
12-12-2004, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I saw that link I'll try that after exams thanks;)

If I have problems I'll ask you though:)

check your PM, FFF

R-Audi
12-12-2004, 10:30 AM
Hey Winson,/FFF
Was it tough to install your HID's in your valeo's? That will more then likely be a Christmas present to myself.....

Mark (Met ya at Chinook when you had your S, I had my red A4 back then)

bart
12-12-2004, 12:30 PM
here are the instructions guys:

http://www.autooptiks.com/aiming.html

find a wall somewhere, ie: get together in chinook parking at night, get some chalk, and start drawing lines on the wall!

FiveFreshFish
12-12-2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by R-Audi
Was it tough to install your HID's in your valeo's?
The install was pretty straightforward, but there are a lot of little details that consume an entire evening, depending on how you want the city lights to work. The A4's DRLs are the fogs so that's one less thing you have to worry about. This is the general procedure I followed: http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/euros/ Check your PM for more details on specifics of this install.

If you are planning to upgrade to HID, consider changing the housings to E-code at the same time since you're going to have it all apart. IMO, there's a considerable difference between the E-code pattern and the US pattern. The US projector has concentric rings to make the cutoff fuzzy while the Euro projector has no such rings. The link above has close-up photos of both projector lenses.

This pic was taken by Q just before I sold my car to him. Note that both cars have HID.

R-Audi
12-12-2004, 04:45 PM
I already have the E-codes, and my city light is wired, it would be the actual HID's that I would be installing

2m0a0x2
12-12-2004, 07:53 PM
Just for kicks, here's my lights. I don't know why my driver side beam goes into my passenger's beam, so it's wierd, i have one really bright spot. It's not supposed to blend like this when it's so close! So i'll wait till I aim right..

2m0a0x2
12-12-2004, 07:54 PM
in the car

2m0a0x2
12-12-2004, 07:54 PM
and my dad's it's purrrrfect

FiveFreshFish
12-12-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by 2m0a0x2
Just for kicks, here's my lights. I don't know why my driver side beam goes into my passenger's beam, so it's wierd, i have one really bright spot. It's not supposed to blend like this when it's so close! So i'll wait till I aim right..

If DEPOs are like ZKWs, there's plenty of adjustment range. You should have no problem getting them aimed properly.

jtsimaras
12-26-2004, 02:20 PM
Does anybody want to purchase PHILLIPS 4300K HIDs set

brand new used 1 hour let me know.