New Iraq Mass Grave May Contain 500 Bodies

[Carfanman]

SULAIMANIYA, Iraq (Reuters) - Labourers digging on a construction site in northern Iraq uncovered human skulls and bones on Tuesday, which interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said were part of a mass grave believed to contain some 500 bodies.

Allawi told Iraq's National Council in Baghdad that the grave was found near the city of Sulaimaniya in the autonomous Kurdish region in the northeast of the country, where Saddam Hussein's forces carried out atrocities in the late 1980s.

"Today a mass grave was discovered in the city of Sulaimaniya, with the initial number of 500 martyrs," he said.

Allawi gave no further details but residents living nearby said workers found the remains while preparing the ground for a new hospital near a highway in Debashan, north of Sulaimaniya.


Iraq's Ministry of Human Rights has sealed off the site, where its staff are working. The driver of a mechanical digger told Kurdish television about 900 bodies might be in the grave but it was too early to know how many were buried there.


Evidence gathered from mass graves is expected to form a central part of the trials of the former president and his top deputies, accused of war crimes and other crimes against humanity during their decades in power.


Allawi said some lieutenants would go on trial next week.


Saddam launched military offensives against the Kurds in the late 1980s and his forces used poison gas against the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988.


Among those facing trial is Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali" for his alleged role in the gas attacks.


Allawi said that another Saddam cousin and former aide, Izzedine al-Majid, had been captured last week and would also face trial.


No date has been set for any process against Saddam himself, who briefly appeared in court in July this year, along with 11 of his senior deputies, to be informed of the general charges against him. Saddam was captured by U.S. troops a year ago after eight months on the run.


The work of excavating those mass graves already discovered around Iraq has been greatly complicated by an insurgency among Saddam's Sunni Arab minority. Investigators have been unable to visit many sites because of fighting.


Here (http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20041214%2F0848590249.htm&sc=rontz&photoid=20041013BAG113)

Bush doesnt kill ppl like that.

[kevie88]

Bush doesn't kill anyone. He makes the orders so other people kill.

If you don't think there's been thousands upon thousands of innocent deaths in this conflict since the americans went in you're kidding yourself. The americans just don't make mass graves very often.

[Carfanman]

Thousands upon thousands of deaths is like nothing compared to what saddam did. he did one grave of 500-900 ppl but there were hundreds more. The article states the already known fact that he would have Chem Ali gass almost a thousand ppl at a time. But it was done hundreds of time!!!

And you dont see the good places in the news, tey only show you what will make the US look bad, there are schools there are happy ppl in most places ( I know someones going to respond saying there are ppl who are upset even though I italicized in most places). The media doesnt show you the good, thats not what attracts ppl. Ppl only whant to hear bad things about the US.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Carfanman
Ppl only whant to hear bad things about the US.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

people want to hear the truth, this article backs up the fact that saddam was a bad person, whats your point :dunno:

but in the end, its evil vs. evil, don't kid yourself :thumbsup:

edit, ooooo, loook


Over 100,000 civilians -- half of whom women and children -- have lost their lives since the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, according to a study published by a respected British medical weekly.

http://islamonline.net/English/News/2004-10/29/article04.shtml

[civicrider]

goes to show that not everyone was happy in iraq:rolleyes:




Over 100,000 civilians -- half of whom women and children -- have lost their lives since the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, according to a study published by a respected British medical weekly.


thats biased, how many people do you think died in the 2 years before the US invasion due to starvation and saddam killiing people? maybe not 100,000 but alot and also not all 100,00 are due to the americans killing them. what im trying to say is that alot of people were dieing before the US was there.

[DayGlow]

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanians - good
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator -bad


Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad

No mass graves found in Serbia - good
No WMD found Iraq - bad

Servbia/Bonsnia was no immediate threat to USA - good
Iraq is no immediate threat to USA - bad

[kevie88]

Originally posted by civicrider
thats biased, how many people do you think died in the 2 years before the US invasion due to starvation and saddam killiing people? maybe not 100,000 but alot and also not all 100,00 are due to the americans killing them. what im trying to say is that alot of people were dieing before the US was there.


Yep, Now they're dying faster, and with cooler weapons.


Back in the days before the first gulf war the Kurds were considered 'terrorists' by the world media, they used to launch attacks on Saddam's government. So what Saddam did was to eliminate and destroy his enemies. Only he did it with gas, and the Americans do it with Nuclear weapons (spent uranium rounds)

I'd take a 1 hour gas attack over a millenia worth of children picking up and playing with spent uranium..

[finboy]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanians - good
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator -bad


Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad

No mass graves found in Serbia - good
No WMD found Iraq - bad

Servbia/Bonsnia was no immediate threat to USA - good
Iraq is no immediate threat to USA - bad

i think everyone here can clearly say that the american foreign policy has been screwed up since WAY before bush

[DayGlow]

so stick your head in the sand and pretend the world is a good place?

I also forgot

USA goes into Serbia without UN approval - good
USA goes into Iraq without UN approval - bad

[finboy]

Originally posted by DayGlow
so stick your head in the sand and pretend the world is a good place?

I also forgot

USA goes into Serbia without UN approval - good
USA goes into Iraq without UN approval - bad

and where did i say i was going to pretend the world was a good place.

point here is that the un can't really stop the us from what they want to do.

[civicrider]

Originally posted by kevie88



Yep, Now they're dying faster, and with cooler weapons.


Back in the days before the first gulf war the Kurds were considered 'terrorists' by the world media, they used to launch attacks on Saddam's government. So what Saddam did was to eliminate and destroy his enemies. Only he did it with gas, and the Americans do it with Nuclear weapons (spent uranium rounds)

I'd take a 1 hour gas attack over a millenia worth of children picking up and playing with spent uranium..

who cares what they are being killed with thats not the point, im just stating that most people would look at 100, 000 and say SHIT thats alot, but really its not as large as it seems because lot were being killled prior to the US invasion.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanians - good
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator -bad


Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad

No mass graves found in Serbia - good
No WMD found Iraq - bad

Servbia/Bonsnia was no immediate threat to USA - good
Iraq is no immediate threat to USA - bad

Clinton made a demon out of Slobodon Milosovic
Bush is making a martyr out of Saddam Hussein.

Both terribly evil people, but that's not the point. Whether you're for the war or against it, you have to admit it's not going well. Even if you think things are peachy keen in Iraq, they are NOT peachy keen here and in the States with regards to people's view on the war. So there IS a problem, regardless as to whether or not your rosey colored lenses are surrounded by a blue frame or a red one. Be it because of improper planning, poor intelligence, the arrogant attitude of the administration, or their failure to properly rally the masses, there was a faliure. The problem, as I see it, is the arrogance. IMHO, people are stupid and easily manipulated. The majority can usually be made to think what they're told to think as long as the proper infrastructure is put into place. That's why Clinton never had hundreds of thousands of people signing a petition to charge him as a war criminal.
The failure was this: (again, my opinion) the Bush administration knows all too well about the innate gullibility of the masses. They KNEW they could get enough support to conduct this war. But they got lazy. The infrastructure was not properly secured from the onset. The two minutes hate's weren't conducted. That's why support of the war (whatever support there was) is falling apart.
This post is neither condoning, nor opposing the actual reasons for the war, that is not it's purpose so don't read too much into the tone. I'm just trying to explain what I believe went wrong. I may allude to "1984" an aweful lot whenever I speak of the current regime in the States, but if you've read the book, you'd understand.

[DayGlow]

I wholeheartly agree the marketting of the war is a failure, but it's sad that people need to be fed some pap because they can't think for themselves.

This war should have never happenned as the UN should have done this back in the mid 90's when it was clear that Saddam wasn't going to follow the conditions of the cease-fire for the first Gulf War. But they didn't. I do not blame Bush for doing what had to be done. How many people died during 10+ years of sanctions where the elite in the country got rich off of a corrupt oil for food program? Not much outrage then because it wasn't in the eye of the media.

The problem now is that our pop-tart instance gradification society can not comprehend that it takes years to rebuild a nation after it has been defeated.

The world was in Germany and Japan for a very long time rebuilding those countries, and that's without radical insurgance who's only goal is throw the country into complete disaray so they can create their own regime based on their lunitic ideas.

The war has happenned, it cannot be changed. Now is the time for the world to rally and help make sure Iraq is rebuilt properly so that it can be a prosperous nation. I see too many people gloating about the mess when they should be making sure that it is cleaned up.

[SL65///AMG]

BURN THE WHITE PEOPLE

[civicrider]

^
good job on the ban someones getting that x box:thumbsup:

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by Carfanman


Bush doesnt kill ppl like that.


carfanman, are u aware that the americans where the ones who provided the chemical weapons to sadaam.....did u know that the americans wanted sadaam to use those weapons against the iranian people.......

so what does this make the american government huh.......innocent?......

[Toma]

Don't even get me going on Serbia.... :banghead:

You had Al Qaida funding and training the KLA and other terrorist Albanians, but it was the Serbs fault :banghead:

Then the weekling, POS American Army could not defeat a few thousand serbs in Albania, so they start bombing civilians in Serbia (including where my family is/was).

And that JUST touches the tip.

Fakin useless American gov't. The whole lot should be put up on war crimes charges.

I am gonna LAUGH my fukkin ass of if Milosevic gets off... so far, looks grim for the prosecution, but its a rigged game, so I wont hold my breath.

[AcuraTl]

:rolleyes: lol, you think Saddam is responsible for Murder?? how bout murder of a culture? before the first gulf war, Iraq had a HIGHER literacy rate than America, can u even imagine, then after the emargos when Tomatoes/Baby milk became rarer then Diamonds, literacy went down, infant mortaility/crime went up. Lets thank the US!

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Toma
Don't even get me going on Serbia.... :banghead:

You had Al Qaida funding and training the KLA and other terrorist Albanians, but it was the Serbs fault :banghead:

Then the weekling, POS American Army could not defeat a few thousand serbs in Albania, so they start bombing civilians in Serbia (including where my family is/was).

And that JUST touches the tip.

Fakin useless American gov't. The whole lot should be put up on war crimes charges.

I am gonna LAUGH my fukkin ass of if Milosevic gets off... so far, looks grim for the prosecution, but its a rigged game, so I wont hold my breath.

So it's your opinion that the Butcher of the Balkans should be set free? Or am I misunderstanding your post?

Kris

[Toma]

Originally posted by TKRIS


So it's your opinion that the Butcher of the Balkans should be set free? Or am I misunderstanding your post?

Kris

As far as I know, Clinton was never arrested. Did I miss something?

[DayGlow]

I suppose the merickans should have kept their nose out of WWII as well? Let's blame them for that one as well since it's so fashionable to pin all of the worlds whoes on them for either action or inaction.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Toma


As far as I know, Clinton was never arrested. Did I miss something?

No. You didn't. But here's my real question for you. Do you and I live in different worlds? Because in MY world, History has ALWAYS been written by the victors. And Milosevic lost. Milosevic is an evil man who deserves what he gets. That's not to say that others shouldn't be sitting in a cell next to him, but come on, life doesn't work that way. If it were, who the hell would be around to run the government (;)). Everybody plays dirty, the winners get away with it. It's not a good thing, it's not right, and it sure as hell isn't just, but that's the way it is. I'd rather see Milosevic arrested than see them both get away scott free. Surely you don't think Milosevic and his chief officers did nothing wrong.

But that wasn't the point of my initial thread anyways. I was just pointing out that sufficient demonization of the enemy occured with regards to Milosevic.