Accounting

[Chandler_Racing]

I know the board has a accounting thread, but my question is a variation of it. I have two positions right now that i have a very good chance of working for my choices are Ernst & Young and Price Waterhouse ( sorry if the spelling is wrong). I was wondering if anyone works at either of these two companies or could provide me with some information.

[JL Type-S]

I interviewed with both firms in Edmonton.

They are very similar. They both have excellent UFE training programs and you will get similar on-the-job experience. You will do a lot of auditing early on. For the UFE, I would give the edge to PwC because they have the highest pass rate out of all the Big Four firms. PwC is also the largest firm in the world.

The training and the practical experience in a Big Four firm are pretty much the same. The biggest factor in your decision is the people. I would meet as many people in each firm and see where you "fit" the best.

[Chandler_Racing]

Who are you working for now?

I thought PWC was around 5th? maybe im wrong.

Im not to concerned about fitting in its basically a streamline job, rather im more concerned about who offers the best program.

[Chim]

Don't mean to get off topic or thread jack, but how hard is it really to get into a CA firm?

[in*10*se]

it's not hard to get into a CA firm, you have the marks AND the social skills, it's easy... books smarts are NOT everything...

i work for pricewaterhousecoopers... i've already finished a co-op term with them... there are 4 big firms that most people want to work for... i have friends in all four if you want specific questions...

pricewaterhousecoopers, deloitte, ernest&young, KPMG - all these firms will have info sessions in sept/oct @ the u of c

deloitte is the biggest in canada due to the merger w/ the former arthur andersen CA firm... nothing but good things to say about them... nice people, but they think they're the best... (which isn't a bad thing... it just can be taken as a sign of arrogance)

KPMG seems to always have a good showing @ u of c and everybody seems to really want to work for them, known as the FUN firm @ the u of c....rated in macleans magazine as one of the best employers to work for in canada. definately a people orientated firm and the only firm right now to pay overtime after 125 hours worked. focuses on the middle of the market for it's bread and butter...

E&Y seems to just be another CA firm, good reputation, good people, definately multicultural....LOL HAHA i just notice alot of asian and brown people there... good firm overall, i have heard very little about them. also ranked in macleans top 100 employers.

PWC- the largest firm internationally and focuses on the big companies for it's bread and butter, known as the snobs on campus, but personally I THINK ITS A GREAT FIRM, next year when i'm recruiting ITS GONNA BE HELLA PIMP!!! once you meet the people, they're great! the HR manager is kinda a ditz... no offense... and it's also ranked in maclenas top 100.


other firms that are considered MID-sized CA firms

BDO Dunwoody - 5th largest CA firm in canada
CollinsBarrow - one of the most well known midsized CA firms in Calgary, WARNING, VERY INTENSE INTERVIEW....
GrantThornton - i dunno, nice people, small firm...


questions?

and like JL type-s said... all the firms will beable to provide you with the same thing... their job offers are very similar if not the same... it's about who you like, what people you feel you get along with... and where you fit best....

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
I know the board has a accounting thread, but my question is a variation of it. I have two positions right now that i have a very good chance of working for my choices are Ernst & Young and Price Waterhouse ( sorry if the spelling is wrong). I was wondering if anyone works at either of these two companies or could provide me with some information.

ummm btw.... all the recruiting for summer positions and F/T positions were over in october.... exactly, how on earth do you have a "good chance" when all the big 4 CA firms aren't hiring? (i'm just wondering....):dunno:

[Chim]

Wow lots of info, thanks buddy :)

Yeah I missed the recruiting spree in october as well, but just pondering career paths right now. Accounting doesn't seem too exciting but I did pretty well in the 317 class and there's definitely some good money in it.

I always thought that unless you got into a CA firm, your career would be nowhere near as good as if you did. Thats why I was wondering.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by Chim
Wow lots of info, thanks buddy :)

Yeah I missed the recruiting spree in october as well, but just pondering career paths right now. Accounting doesn't seem too exciting but I did pretty well in the 317 class and there's definitely some good money in it.

I always thought that unless you got into a CA firm, your career would be nowhere near as good as if you did. Thats why I was wondering.

there are 3 designations that an accountant can get.

CA, CMA, and CGA

as a certified general accountant - you are the basic accountant, and you can go far, but you HAVE to work your way up in a company for many years. The salary potential for this is maybe around 80k at best.... probably avg would be around 45-50 after working a couple years. it is possible to be a CGA and be the boss of a CMA or a CA (it's a small chance, but possible)

as a certified managerial accountant, you are mainly working in the oil and gas industry, and are paid stupid amounts of money, as a CMA you are mostly doing production accounting and managing accounting controls and implementing controls, budgeting and allocating money.

It was propsed this year that CMA's and CA's combine designations and become the same thing. Both sides voted and declined this proposal, as CMA's think they're better than CA's and CA's think that they're better than CMA's. CMA's write an IMPOSSIBLE entrance exam and once past this hurdle, they eventually get their CMA's my friend started w/ encana (oil and gas) and she's making around 45k STARTING upon graduation (not including bonuses or benefits...) earning is limited, but i'm sure can go upwards of 100k

As a chartered accountant you are in 3 areas, forensic accounting, auditing & assurance, or tax. earning potential is almost limitless... but you start @ a shit pay... 35k upon grad

FAS (forensic accounting) deals with mostly bankruptcies and stuff that has to go to court and stuff, very interesting and involves working with criminal lawyers and stuff to uncover any accounting scandals and stuff. (think enron and world com) Auditing is what all articling CA students MUST go through... 30 months of auditing hell... and a SUPER DUPER HARD TEST (UE/UFE) to get your CA's. Auditing involves checking that financial statements are reported in a way following the rules of GAAP and ensuring that things are not mistated so that if someone were to invest in the company, they would change their mind if they knew of the misstatement. tax is tax... you do corporate or personal tax and it's tax... it's boring... nothing exciting...

soo most people think that CA's are the pinnicle of the business world, but CMA's think that they are also the best... and CGA's are just CGA's... nothing special... a dime a dozen... if you want a career, think about CMA or CA... i'm not saying who's better or not, but in the business world, there is the perception as CA's are the best....




*warning* i'm not sure about the earning potentials for ANY of the designations, this is best guessing, BUT the starting salaries of a CMA student articling and a CA student articling i'm sure about.

[in*10*se]

2 majors that are worthwhile to purse in business....

finance and accounting

i know a finance major, top of his class... top of cpmt.... landed a job in t.o paying 85k... these jobs are about 2 in about 1000 for new grads...:eek: most finance majors start around the same pay as articling CA's or CMA's

[saiyajin]

wow thank you so much for all the info in*10*se!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[t-im]

off topic

but new grad jobs...good pay etc...
goto the u.s.

knew a person that had offer of 60k usd + bonuses (which would have come out to 80~cad)

EY and deloitte offered 50k+signing bonus+us citzenship thing+annual bonuses

which is better then the new grad jobs around here which are around 35-45~

[in*10*se]

yeah... i dunno about the states... but it ends up that the CA firms in canada pay for all the modules/schooling it takes for you to attain your CA designation... it takes around 2 and ahalf years... and they pay it all... i'm not saying its better, but in the states... to attain your CPA (certified public accountant) (supposed equilvilent to a CA in canada) it can take about 6 months...

they say that CPA's are equivilent, but by the time you compare a CA to a CPA, the extra 2 years of experience totally beats a CPA, also they say that CA's have a much easier time to write the equivilency exam to a CPA than it is vice versa.... many CA's write their CPA soon after their CA... CPA's and CA are definately the route to go with, and it allows for both international work for either canada or the US.... since the US has so much more business than canada, CPA's are probably in higher demand due to sarbanes oxley and CA's are in hella high demand too since many US companies are located in canada....

it's a good time to graduate for accounting, STUPID amounts of jobs right now...

some more info that has been published in good magazines...

http://www.macleans.ca/pdf/top100employers.pdf
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/business/index.jsp
http://search.macleans.ca/search.asp?Start=&Total=&Stat=New&DefaultLanguage=16&Query=KPMG

kpmg probably is on the most lists, but pwc, e&y and kpmg are on the overall top 100 employers list... but it's all toronto offices NOT calgary offices




bottom of the page... continue reading... hot jobs for accountants...

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article.jsp?content=20040927_62220_62220&page=2

more stuff on how hot accounting jobs are...
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article.jsp?content=20040927_62218_62218

[t-im]

Originally posted by in*10*se
yeah... i dunno about the states... but it ends up that the CA firms in canada pay for all the modules/schooling it takes for you to attain your CA designation... it takes around 2 and ahalf years... and they pay it all... i'm not saying its better, but in the states... to attain your CPA (certified public accountant) (supposed equilvilent to a CA in canada) it can take about 6 months...




good info :)

but yeah, in the US, from the people I know who've gotten jobs, they usually work it into the contracts the company will pay for it, and they usually say something of "no promotion unitl further (education) has been attaiined"

[Chim]

Originally posted by in*10*se

it's a good time to graduate for accounting, STUPID amounts of jobs right now...

How about in around 2-3 years?

A year ago I said I would NEVER go into accounting, but I'm starting to reconsider. Is it really what it is made out to be? (Graduate, almost guarenteed employment, then get CA and roll in the dough!!)

[t-im]

a person is never guaranteed a job...it really depends on yourself

to me, acct. jobs will always be around, there will always be the need for accountants.

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by in*10*se


ummm btw.... all the recruiting for summer positions and F/T positions were over in october.... exactly, how on earth do you have a "good chance" when all the big 4 CA firms aren't hiring? (i'm just wondering....):dunno:
My dads friend is a senior partner in Ernest & Younge. He just said to hand in a resume and he would take care of it. Another one of his friends also works for PWC.

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by Chim


How about in around 2-3 years?

A year ago I said I would NEVER go into accounting, but I'm starting to reconsider. Is it really what it is made out to be? (Graduate, almost guarenteed employment, then get CA and roll in the dough!!)

Any job path that involves large numbers of baby boomers is going to be easy to find a job. There's going to be an employment shortage in most fields....

[in*10*se]

^ really???:nut: :)

[redblack]

I just wanted to set the record straight. My best advice to anyone looking for a career in the accounting field... it does not matter which designation you decide to pursue. If you are not passionate at accounting and your not good at it no designation will lead you to 100K salary a year with 50K benifits & bonuses. Don't be fooled, all you hear all around you is how much money your gonna make when you get your designation, no person that comes out of U even with a designation will make 50K the first year, yes accountants can make alot of money however like any other profession you must start at the bottom and prove yourself. I have worked with both CA's in Canada & CPA's from the states and let me tell you they are not always smarter or better at accounting then someone who doesn't have the three letter title after there name. Experience has taught me that just because you possess a designation it does not make you a good accountant period. The CFO at the company that I work for doesn't even have a designation, and this person is one of the best accountants in North America having some of there own formats used by CA's & CPA's all over the states and Canada, with some of the industries top executives tell him that above all the CA'S & CPA's this person's work is one of the finest they've ever seen. Imagine that top executive at various firms that pay there accountants well into the six figure some even into the seven figures and there work doesn't even compare to someone with no designation. All in all I think the CA title is very much overated it seem that all CA's out there all want to be paid the big bucks to sit there and breath. I have many friends pursuing the CA designation and it seem to be well known in all businesses that CA's have this attitute that there better than any other designated accountant. That's why I chuckle everytime I prove to CA that they were wrong & I the non designated (but soon to be CGA) was right.

[in*10*se]

^:rofl: :rofl: this is a joke right? i'm gonna have to correct a few things here... this is gonna be a long post… god… what a waste of my time



Originally posted by redblack
I just wanted to set the record straight. My best advice to anyone looking for a career in the accounting field... it does not matter which designation you decide to pursue. If you are not passionate at accounting and your not good at it no designation will lead you to 100K salary a year with 50K benifits & bonuses. Don't be fooled, all you hear all around you is how much money your gonna make when you get your designation, no person that comes out of U even with a designation will make 50K the first year, yes accountants can make alot of money however like any other profession you must start at the bottom and prove yourself.

ANYONE that has a University degree and with a CA designation which means at least 30 months of audit&assure experience will be guaranteed at least 60-80g's to start in industry.

i agree though if you don't have some interest/passion about accounting, you will not land that "big paying job" but i've never heard about a job that had 50k in benefits....


Originally posted by redblack

I have worked with both CA's in Canada & CPA's from the states and let me tell you they are not always smarter or better at accounting then someone who doesn't have the three letter title after there name. Experience has taught me that just because you possess a designation it does not make you a good accountant period.


on a peice of paper, if i have a CA/CMA/CGA designation it doesn't mean you know everything about all different areas of accounting, but each designation means that you have a certain level of knowledge of accounting.

A person that has worked in a particular industry say for a couple years, and a new CMA/CA/CGA has just walked in... of course they'll make mistakes, we aren't perfect, and we have not had experience in this area... the person with experience of course will know how things should look and how things are done, but i'm sure within a year, i'm sure the CA/CGA/CMA will have figured out how things work.

Experience has taught you that just because you possess a designation it does not make you a good accountant period.
this is true, but at least it gets me a job... and shows that i have the brains to get the designation. It shows we have shown that we meet a standard set by our designations



Originally posted by redblack



The CFO at the company that I work for doesn't even have a designation, and this person is one of the best accountants in North America having some of there own formats used by CA's & CPA's all over the states and Canada, with some of the industries top executives tell him that above all the CA'S & CPA's this person's work is one of the finest they've ever seen.

….. your CFO doesn’t have a designation eh…

I want you to NAME this company that you work for… and the NAME of this “CFO”

I’m even sure since you don’t even have your designation, that you haven’t even talked to your CFO…


“their own formats” used BY CA’s AND CPA’s!?!? OF COURSE THEY HAVE A CERTAIN FORMAT YOU DUMBASS…you have to adhere to certain formats and principles…. As a up and coming CGA you should know this… are you stupid???!?!?

what kind of business is this? A home business? A hotdog stand? A lemonade stand? And as a CFO, he shouldn’t even be putting together the financials or anything like that. CFO is an administrative position and he controls the financing and budgeting for the company. HE DOESN’T PREPARE “work”, that’s what his bitch ass accountants below him are for, he makes decisions and policies.


Originally posted by redblack
Imagine that top executive at various firms that pay there accountants well into the six figure some even into the seven figures and there work doesn't even compare to someone with no designation. All in all I think the CA title is very much overated it seem that all CA's out there all want to be paid the big bucks to sit there and breath. I have many friends pursuing the CA designation and it seem to be well known in all businesses that CA's have this attitute that there better than any other designated accountant. That's why I chuckle everytime I prove to CA that they were wrong &; I the non designated (but soon to be CGA) was right.

no designation eh…. I’m still not believing this utter stupidity… the CA title is something to be proud of and the people who attain this designation HAVE THE RESPECT OF the business world. CGA’s can be CFO’s but you have to really really really work your self up in the business.


I apologize for bursting your little bubble in this little “perfect” world that you live in. But even if your CFO does have no designation, if your company collapses or is laid off, he will never be able to land another job like that… he will work at H&R block. Yes one day, you as a CGA you might be a CFO, but I won’t be surprised if a CFA, or a CA beats you to that job. AND ontop of that, since you believe you can be successful without a designation and become a CFO... why did you get your CGA? don't you think that this is a little bit hypocritical, when you imply that people without designations can be "amazing accountants" and "CFOs"

[WWJAI]

I'm also planning to go into the accounting field. At the current moment i'm taking a couple accounting courses at MRC and I was just wondering if after your done... how hard will it be to ensure a job for yourself assuming that you have had a 2 semester work-term?

[in*10*se]

are you in bisett school of business? or are you just taking "continuing education" accounting classes?

If you are indeed in the bisett school of business, and are in the Commerce program in accounting, you have a decent chance of getting a job with a CA firm. I have met many MRC students with jobs/offers/working at CA firms. I have a buddy @ pwc, a good friend @ deloitte and i know a few@ kpmg. The program they have at MRC which includes work terms definately gives an advantage to the program because you have work experience.

and it depends what kind of places you work at for your workterms.... if u work @ mcdonalds ... not good... but if you work for an oil and gas company or something... good stuff...


hope this helps

[WWJAI]

but the thing is do you have to go find yourself a place to work during work-term or will MRC provide you with the job at a good or decent company?

Currently i'm taking General Arts & Science at MRC but i'm taking all the accounting courses required to get the 4 year applied degree. Next Fall I will be registering myself into the Bachelor of Applied Business Administration of Accounting Program.

[in*10*se]

k sounds like you're on the right track

you look for the job yourself, there are job postings, you need to apply and go through interviews to get it.

[WWJAI]

aight thanks a lot. I was also wondering if when you take your work term. Will there be someone exactly training you to be a professional accountant or is it like a sit you down..see what you can do for them type thing? Also will it be a full time work term with the whole 8 hours a day/5days a week job probably?

[in*10*se]

they have training weeks, to teach you what you need... ur assigned a manager to review your work and stuff... your work term usually is F/T and can even reach up to 60 hrs a week.

[eblend]

well since people want to know about accounting firms i will just say stuff about what i know, my girlfriend works at Ernst and Young, just started her coop in january. Its a great firm to work for, very nice people all around from my experience. They pay for everything for you, as i am sure the other big accounting firms do too. They will pay for your dinner if you work 2 hours overtime (basicly give you 20 bucks if you work 2 hours over, even if you don't use the money to eat) and they will pay for your cab home as well. I went to the chrismas party with my girlfriend, and they treat their employees well, had sherriton booked with free bar, 5 couarse meal, music, dancing, anything u want all free. Very nice firm. My other friend works for KPMG and their chrimas party was pretty lame in comparison, they just went to a restaurant and eat....Have another friend working at PWC...and from what i hear, they are pretty snobby about themselves..."WE ARE THE BEST" attitude that turns many ppl off, including my girlfriend. My girlfriend had offers from PWC, EY and KPMG and she choose EY from the 3, even though they all paid the same. She just loved the atmosphere of EY, so thats where she went.

Anyways, thats my experience with acct firms

[eblend]

Originally posted by WWJAI
aight thanks a lot. I was also wondering if when you take your work term. Will there be someone exactly training you to be a professional accountant or is it like a sit you down..see what you can do for them type thing? Also will it be a full time work term with the whole 8 hours a day/5days a week job probably?


you will get trained don't worry. there is 2 weeks training and then you go out in the field with your manager or your superior and basicly do what they tell you do to, and go from there. If you are lucky you will go to a destination other then calgary to get training, my girlfriend just had training in january and they went to kananaskes for 1 week all expenses paid to do their training. They way these firms work is they train everyone at one spot, so if you got a job in toronto..they will fly you out all expenses paid from toronto to calgary and have training. Its different spot all the time it seems, for example, KPMG took everyone to toronto to do training this time, I have heard that others have gone to miami and new york, it really all depends on where the company wants to train, they are rich and pick places

and a work term would be full time job....except you must be dreaming if you think its always going to be 8-5 5 days a week....more like...8-9 6 days a week at times. My girlfriend been working 8-9 all week this week at ernst and young...but its always busy around new years, but calms down alot during summer months

[in*10*se]

<cough> it's audit busy season... jan-april
<cough> it's tax busy season... jan-april

lol, the last firm that took on the we are the best attitude was Deloitte. this year... the partner basically came straight out and said, "we are the best..." LOL

hahah, but yeah things are all expenses paid when you travel, but our pay is shit... :thumbsdow i'm so unimpressed...lol oh well... i know another january co-op mike, he jsut started w/ e&y this jan. hmm interesting...hee

hmm what else... pwc's january audit starts didn't get to go anywhere for training... bwahahah, but in sept we're going to whistler...yay... hmm, the tax co-op's i know are going to tornoto for training this week, so hmm sounds interesting.

[Mckenzie]

Originally posted by in*10*se
&lt;cough&gt; it's audit busy season... jan-april
&lt;cough&gt; it's tax busy season... jan-april

lol, the last firm that took on the we are the best attitude was Deloitte. this year... the partner basically came straight out and said, &quot;we are the best...&quot; LOL

hahah, but yeah things are all expenses paid when you travel, but our pay is shit... :thumbsdow i'm so unimpressed...lol oh well... i know another january co-op mike, he jsut started w/ e&amp;y this jan. hmm interesting...hee

hmm what else... pwc's january audit starts didn't get to go anywhere for training... bwahahah, but in sept we're going to whistler...yay... hmm, the tax co-op's i know are going to tornoto for training this week, so hmm sounds interesting.

I heard from the HR people at EY that all of the summer interns got to go to Florida for a one week conference last summer....sounds like a decent perk.:D I cant wait! *crosses fingers*

[in*10*se]

vanados2b wrote on 02-20-2005 01:35 PM:
You had said that you have friends in all four firms, what is the comparison in the salaries? In terms of the "career ladder", what are the differences between the firms (eg. Is is harder to work your way up in, say, PWC than in EY). Ultimately, which do you belive is the best firm? Thanks.

Vanados2b


The worst part about being an articling student is that ALL of the firms get together and offer the same starting salary... This year, all articling students will be making 35k a year. Next year it'll probably be around 36-37k.

In terms of career ladder, it depends on how hard you work. Every firm has a "bonus" plan and it will depend on your performance at work. Your raises also depend on your performance appraisal. They also base so of your performance on what you do in your spart time (ie. do you participate in firm activities)

So you start as an associate, then senior associate, then manager, then senior manager then partner. Partner is as high as a person can go in a firm because then you basically are a "partner" of the firm and your salary will depend on how well the firm does.

I think generally, depending on your performance appraisal you should go up from 35k to about 39-43k depending on if you are a a super star or not. The next year you should be around 45-50k and be a senior associate. By then you should be writing your UE (universal exam to get your CA's) and then a person should become a manager in 4-5 years. (superstars in 4, normally 5)If you don't get that promotion, you probably never will. And then you leave the public practice to jump into industry (oil and gas) and get paid so much more than with one of the CA firms. Many people choose this route. You are not paid well when articling w/ the CA firms, they do not pay you what you are worth, Industy pays you what you are worth.

In terms of the better firm to go to? It all depends on which firm you like. This will be a personal decision you will make when the firms go hiring in sept/oct.

There are equal opportunities in each firm for career advancement, also it depends on how competitive your other co-workers are. If you are that superstar accountant, you will move quickly in a firm, if u are average, then you will just do average in the firm.

Ultimately I work for pwc, so i'm going to have to say pwc is the best. Great people, great benefits, it's the largest firm in the WORLD, and perks are great, office is sweet, great technology, great laptops, and what more can i ask for?

http://www.casource.com/Website/SilverStream/Objectstore/General/Alberta__Detailed_Tables.pdf

page 6 - compensation for professional services

you all will be accountants/auditors

[vanados2b]

Approx. how long does it take the average accounant to work their way up to a partner position in a Big Four firm? (key word being approx., because I know that everyone varies). Does anyone know what a partner in any of the Big Four firms gets paid?

[Shaolin]

a friend just got into a CA firm doing tax stuff because he knows the senior accountant at deloitte.. Anyways, we were talking about the designations and I just never thought about it.. What does PA firms get in return for training CA students?

[JL Type-S]

Public accounting firms receive high profit margins by using students to do the bulk of the work. Students get paid about $16 per hour while the firm bills the client between $60-80 per hour. In addition, some firms do not pay overtime to their students so all the additional hours worked during busy season are billed to the client with little cost to the firm.

In fact, as you become more senior in a firm, your billing rate goes up as well as your salary. Sometimes a firm will turnover recent CAs because it becomes too expensive to keep him or her in the firm. They would rather hire more students to do the work because they are low cost and they can bill at a high rate.

[Skyline_Addict]

What kind of academic acclaimations are these companies looking for? Are they field specific?
I'm an Econ student, looking to go for my Masters' soon or into Law school.

[Shaolin]

Terrance, my friend's an econ major.. he got in because his brother was an acquaintance of a senior accountant. But he also got lucky because the position he went for was open because someone the day before decided not to do it.

[Mckenzie]

Well the firms would like some sort of business background but the truth is, you do not need a Bcomm to get into a CA firm. That being said, to do your CA, you need certain accounting classes and pre-reqs to take the CASB program....which basically follow the likes of an accounting degree.


Here it is..

http://www.casb.com/pdf/University_of_Calgary.pdf

I am not sure what you need to do your MPACC at the UofS. This is your masters of accounting and you can do either route before you write your UFE.

[Xtrema]

I think to work for the big 4, starting at the bottom, you must be able to deal with stress. I found that most are during the tax/audit seasons, most staff are putting in 12hr days for 4 solid months. And they exploits students and soon to be CA/CGA/CMA's to do bulk of these works.

All work are boring but accounting are worst than others. Most of the CAs that I know end up doing something else in the finance industry because of the boredom.

[vanados2b]

Does anyone know how much time-off/vacation time an accountant gets a year?

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by in*10*se
… the CA title is something to be proud of and the people who attain this designation HAVE THE RESPECT OF the business world.

:werd: Probably one of the toughest professional exams in North America.

[Tyler883]

in10se,

I've been reading you posts with great interest.

What is you opinion of accountants that don't have any university behind them? For example someone that has taken correspondence while working, or gone to a place like SAIT to get an applied degree?

Is there any snobery against them?

[Tyler883]

bump

[vanados2b]

Does anyone also know the hours that accountants work on average per day ( I know it changes in the different seasons)?

[black_2.5RS]

I work at EY and personally, I find that the number of hrs an accountant works per day / week / month changes not only during the season but also on the department (ie: Tax, Mergers and Acq (M&A), IT Risk, etc).

Generally, hours in non-peak season are 8-5. I know there are technically summer hours where you work reduced hours but I haven't seen them yet.

During busy season (at least in my team, it starts in Sept - Feb/Mar). I found that my hours weren't that much more, 8-6 or so (mind you some days I had to stay overnight till my shit was done). I know there are people who work much more and may flame me, but i've been through 3 busy seasons and have managed to balance my shit by planning my engagements and busting my ass during work hours (I know it's hard to stay focused for 9-10 hrs a day but I manage to and get out on time).

Just my .02.

[black_2.5RS]

Originally posted by Tyler883
in10se,

I've been reading you posts with great interest.

What is you opinion of accountants that don't have any university behind them? For example someone that has taken correspondence while working, or gone to a place like SAIT to get an applied degree?

Is there any snobery against them?


In general, I would say there is a definite bias towards certain Univ. (some reason, UofS produces wicked accountants). However, I know a girl who got her degree at the UofC (B.Sc in Bio) and got her accounting courses from SAIT and managed to get her CA. So, it can happen.

Although, the firms (EY, PwC, DT, KPMG) are losing accontants left / right and center and there's probably a decent chance you could score a job.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by Tyler883
in10se,

I've been reading you posts with great interest.

What is you opinion of accountants that don't have any university behind them? For example someone that has taken correspondence while working, or gone to a place like SAIT to get an applied degree?

Is there any snobery against them?

You can only get your CA's w/ a university degree, with the exception of MRC you cannot get your CA designation. You need required courses that only university/MRC can offer. Without the course requirements met, it is highly unlikely that a CA firm will hire you.

If you do go to SAIT or do correspondence courses they can open doors to opportunities in the oil and gas industry as an accountant. The company will most likely ask what designation you would like to persue, and that will most likely be a CGA/CMA designation. This will lead to further courses/education.

Most CA firms do not snob against whether you are UofS, UofL, UofC, UofA or MRC. If you meet the requirements it really doesn't matter. But i'm sure that there are biases, I've seen lots of UofL and MRC hired over other larger universities.

These are the general views of the schools.

UofC has some of the top students because of their impossible entry requirements

UofA is the largest university in alberta, go figure... they have some good depth to their students

UofS always is proud about their TWO tax courses (personal/corporate) vs all other universities/MRC which only offer the one course which has both topics combined.

UofL is where most students go that do not make it into UofC (this is denied by most students, but hell... you tell me, i have lots of friends at U of L that didn't make it to UofC) Don't count them out, they are not to be underestimated.

MRC - i have nothing but good things to say about this program, it has a 3year programs specifically made for the CA route and i've met so many students from there that i like and are very competent. It is the only college that can get you into the CA program.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by vanados2b
Does anyone also know the hours that accountants work on average per day ( I know it changes in the different seasons)?

typically 40 hrs a week

busy season Jan-April most firms require 50 hrs minimum, some people end up working up to 60-65hrs. all depends on the firm.

[in*10*se]

bump,

recruiting starts soon sept-oct

get your resumes ready, and do those mock interviews!

if u have any questions, post, but read the pages before.

[lostincleavage]

thanks in10se,

your posts are great

you mentioned something about overtime after 125 hours, can you elaborate on this? how many hours per week is that?

would it seriously hamper a person's career to be a hard worker that punches out exactly at quiting time?

What if I was the kind of person that stays late when needed, but trims my hours over the next few days, rather than making a stink about OT or BT? (no offense but I feel that the 9th hour in my day is worth as much to me as any 1 of the first 8 hours in my day, so I definitately want something for it)

I'd like to know you thoughts on these kinds of questions.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by lostincleavage
thanks in10se,

your posts are great

you mentioned something about overtime after 125 hours, can you elaborate on this? how many hours per week is that?

would it seriously hamper a person's career to be a hard worker that punches out exactly at quiting time?

What if I was the kind of person that stays late when needed, but trims my hours over the next few days, rather than making a stink about OT or BT? (no offense but I feel that the 9th hour in my day is worth as much to me as any 1 of the first 8 hours in my day, so I definitately want something for it)

I'd like to know you thoughts on these kinds of questions.


the 125 hr over time is for KPMG calgary only. I don't think any other firm in calgary has ever offered overtime... (that i know of) After an employee works 125 hours of overtime (in a year), any time OVER 125 hrs is banked and either paid out or given in vacation time. Typically given as vacation time. Working in a CA firm, it is easy to work over 125 hrs of OT in a year. Soooo alot of graduates find that offer super tempting and what can i say OVERTIME PAY RULES....:thumbsup: (but sadly i don't get it)

Um honestly if you work hard and get your work done, you should be taking the initiative and look for more work to do in the busy season. As i said before firms REQUIRE a minimum 50hr work week during busy season, but normally just a 40hr work week during the rest of the year.

Your offers from other firms really aren't negotiable unless you have previous work experience in audit busy seasons and even then, they RARELY negoitate. You will most likely be offered 37k a year ( i think ) with no overtime. (unless you're w/ kpmg)

hope this helps.

[Mckenzie]

Unfortunately, the harder you work, the more work you get and the more they want you. At EY at least, you can balance your schedule out by leaving early on slow days but for the most part, the full time seniors are working constantly high hours. I'm sure this is pretty much true everywhere else.

You cannot really punch out at the end of the day as per say....when you have deadlines you will feel the pressure and will want to stay behind at the end of the day to help your team out. Sometimes they are ridiculous and it is usually up to the manager or partner to stand up to the client and tell them to suck a fat one and that there deadline is not going to be met because they are not providing the work you need on time. Its quite interesting to see the die hards who strive for ridiculous deadlines and people who have balls who will stand up and say something cannot get done for whatever reason.

[Mckenzie]

whoa double post :dunno:

[Millsie]

Did anyone else here write the UFE this week...how did you guys find it. I thought the comp was OK and day three went well, but day two was a crapshoot!

As for boredom, I work at a smaller firm in Red Deer (around 80 people, and my job has gotten 100x better since my first year, since we get a lot of client contact and get to deal with a large variety of issues, businesses and people. I think that is the main advantage over a large for firm.

The downside is that we can't compete on a payscale with the Big Four, particularly Calgary since you guys got that industry adjustment that bump wages by 15-20%...weve actually lost a lot of our younger students to Calgary because of the payroll thing...and I must admit, I'm possibly looking at a 35% raise if I head to Calgary (assuming I passed the exam)

[Auditor]

What are the salary ranges for the following in Calgary:

level 1
level 2
senior

[in*10*se]

really, it depends on how well you perform...if you perform shitty, you get a minimal raise 3-4k, if you have exceptional performance, you could be easily making a 10-12k raise.

right now offers for next year after adjusting for inflation a

lvl 1 w/ no exp is getting 37k
lvl 2 w/ one busy season of audit would depend on performance 42-50
a senior - i'd say around 45-65k

yes i know these salaries overlap, but people who perform better at a lower level can and will be paid more than a shittier person above them.

don't quote me... i'll post more info when i ask around. I know the starting salary, but really like i said before, it depends on performance.

[Auditor]

Yeah if you could ask around that would be awesome.

[black_2.5RS]

Based on my experience w/ the big four firms. The ranges posted by 10*se are correct.

[/////AMG]

Which maths do you guys do in the job, basically everything?

[crazyning]

Do the big four typically hire students who are still working towards their degree for accounting positions?

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by /////AMG
Which maths do you guys do in the job, basically everything?

:confused: :confused:

there's different kind of math?

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by crazyning
Do the big four typically hire students who are still working towards their degree for accounting positions?

Yes the big 4 target many 3rd year students working towards their accounting degree for accounting positions. These students that are hired for a job are typically rehired upon graduation.

Typically around 20-25 students are hired western canada wide for summer/8 month co-op positions/4 month co-op for each of the big four. ... depending on demand.

I don't know the exact numbers for each firm, just check the job postings online or at your post-secondary institution.

[/////AMG]

Originally posted by in*10*se
:confused: :confused:

there's different kind of math?

:banghead: :rolleyes: lol, you know what I mean, it's not all adding, multiplying and all that. What does it consist of, or mostly?

[Millsie]

There really isn't that much math. We use excel and accounting specific programs. Its not the accounting of our fore-fathers where we have to bust out the adding machine and abicus. There really isn't that much math to worry about, but if you insist on quantifying it, its a little addition, multiplication and percentages..its not like its hard stuff like conics or quantum theory.

[/////AMG]

Really? I find that odd for some reason.
Obviously you have to know basic maths, but I thought you would need to qualify in other parts aswell.

I got a question for you ppl who did this at uni, what kind of courses did you do (what did you actually have to do in them)??

Thanks for the reply Millsie.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by /////AMG
Really? I find that odd for some reason.
Obviously you have to know basic maths, but I thought you would need to qualify in other parts aswell.

I got a question for you ppl who did this at uni, what kind of courses did you do (what did you actually have to do in them)??

Thanks for the reply Millsie.

http://casb.com/index.php3?catid=30

CASB Pre-requisites


Students will be accepted into the CASB program with a university degree or equivalent and a 65% average in the following pre-requisites:


General Business (three required)

Assurance (one introductory course required)

Finance (one introductory and one intermediate required)

Information Systems and Technology (one intermediate course required. A second intermediate or advanced MIS course is highly recommended).

Performance Measurement (two intermediate Financial Accounting, one Intermediate Managerial/Cost Accounting and one of Accounting Theory, Advanced Financial Accounting, Advanced Financial Statement Analysis, Advanced Managerial/Cost Accounting or International Accounting required)

Taxation (one introductory course covering both personal and corporate required)


Students with undergraduate degrees may have completed most, some, or none of the CASB pre-requisites as part of their degree studies.

Two programs are available which provide students with choices for flexible delivery options if they are completing CASB pre-requisites:

Athabasca University

University of British Columbia Diploma in Accounting Program

All universities in the CASB region provide options for students to complete CASB pre-requisites.



I'm not posting description of courses cause that's just too much damn effort for every single post secondary institution, here are the general prerequisites and you can go to the link to look at the courses needed

[in*10*se]

short lists are out.... interviews are soon, and offers will come

I want to give a heads up to people seeking F/T job offers of the new clause that is coming out with the contracts.

as per Colins Barrows contract:
in the event that you resign you will reimburse the firm, on a monthly pro-rated basis, for any direct costs incurred within the previous 24 months for your training (membership, tuition, travel, accomadations, and meal expenses)

as per Deloitte's contract
in the event that you resign, you will be required to reimburse the firm, on a pro-rata basis, the costs incurred for significant expenditures related to learning



SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

basically, if you decide on taking the MPAcc program which costs about 14000 as per the usask.ca website... and you pass your UFE... you will owe to the firm lets say somewhere upwards of $20,000 after you get your CA designation

if you decide to take CASB which will cost around 12k and pass your UFE, you will owe to the firm lets say somewhere around 15,000 after you get your CA designation

now... here's where the clause fucks you...



WHEN YOU LEAVE the firm, you will have to reimburse the firm the costs incurred for everything!!!!

so for collins barrow it's 24 months back of when you decide to leave. But lets say you stay with the firm another 24 months you won't have to pay back the education costs as it only reaches back 2 years from your resignation date...

HOWEVER for deloitte it's infinite time... so if you leave when ur lets say 30 years old... u actually might have to pay those costs back ( i doubt this... i'm sure i'm missing part of the clause)

BUT you get the idea...

PLEASE BE WEARY... PLEASE READ YOUR CONTRACTS BEFORE SIGNING.

all the best during recruiting!

edit: i don't know what other firms do this... as of yet, i know that pwc and e&y don't have them, but i will update as time passes

[crazyning]

What are the criteria that most CA firms look for? With only 20-25 student positions, I'm assuming that there are pretty strict guidelines.

GPA? Interpersonal skills? Extracurricular activities?

What about articling students, how many are hired each year?

[black_2.5RS]

I know for EY (which apparently has a reputation for being the "academic" firm). They look for someone who is balanced. One important area is that they have very good grades in specific Accounting classes (i'm not the recruiter - so don't ask which ones). Evidence of leadership is key and someone who will not embarass the firm in front of a client (ie: has decent interpersonal skills).

This is likely the same high level requirements that all firms look for.

[in*10*se]

these are total guesses and averages for # of positions in a firm...
(seriously, how the fuck would i know?)
8 month co-ops are usually around 2-3
F/T are usually around 20-30
Summer 3-6
10-15 for 4 month co-op in busy season


Marks get you the interview
Extra-curricular add to the resume alot


Interpersonal Skills get you through the interview

so basically the more balanced you are, the better off you are... interpersonal skills are USELESS without the marks, and marks are USELESS without the interpersonal skills... extra curricular are just the cherry on top and are USELESS without the marks or interpersonal skills... truly a trinity of balance is needed

[vanados2b]

Just when everyone thought they were safe from more accounting questions, I must ask another. Does anyone know the salary range of the partners in the Big Four. Does it really differ that much from firm to firm (being that the firms themselves must do differently, and that the partners share in the spoils of the firms)? I was just on another accounting forum and they said that partners salaries can range upwards of 300,000 - half a million. Do any partners or CFO's make those figures, or even seven figures for that matter? Also, I don't think the question of how much time off an accountant gets off a year was clearly answered. Such as, how much vacation time, how many hours a day during busy and non-busy seasons, etc.? Thanks for putting up with my questions:D

[Si_FlyGuy]

I'm curious about the bonuses offered for lvl 1, 2, and senior accountants at these Big Four firms. Can someone elaborate?

[Mckenzie]

^ The salaries sound about right for partners...they make some pretty good cash but work very hard.

As for the bonuses, not all of the firms offer them. I know EY did it last year as a one time thing...who knows if it will continue.

[vanados2b]

Any accountants care to give a "Day in the Life" synopsis?

[Shaolin]

Originally posted by vanados2b
Any accountants care to give a &quot;Day in the Life&quot; synopsis?

Depends on what type of Accountant you're talking about.. not every "Accountant" is a number cruncher.. I don't consider a data entry clerk that pays bills Accountants..

Accountants are...

1. Project managers
2. Number crunchers
3. Work with business models
4. Plan/Forecast for the Company or potential acquisitions
5. M&A Analysts
6. GL wizards (They do entry related things all day)

and the list goes on.. it really depends on their job focus.

[vanados2b]

Originally posted by Shaolin


Depends on what type of Accountant you're talking about.. not every &quot;Accountant&quot; is a number cruncher.. I don't consider a data entry clerk that pays bills Accountants..



I don't care what type of accountant you are, I just want to hear what you do during work. Anywhere from a brief to a detailed overview would be appreciated.

[Si_FlyGuy]

^ All purpose but mostly Joint Venture O&G Accountant. Spend my day analyzing prices, volumes to determine if we're getting over/under paid. Production projections, accruals, audit, determine interests by looking at contracts and leases. Right now, I'm administrating, coordinating, and auditing a deal that was completed earlier. In short, staring at spreadsheets, databases, contracts, statements/invoices, and maps all day long. Lots of variety but you have to be a spreadsheet junkie to like the job.


and no...Shaolin's right - data entry clerks don't do enough analysis to be considered accountants. I remember this "accountant" from another company who stuck a business card in my face once claiming that he could "get me anything" at his work. His business card said "CGA Level 1" and his "department" at his company was "Corporate Records" aka Photocopying.:rofl:

[Shaolin]

Originally posted by vanados2b

I don't care what type of accountant you are, I just want to hear what you do during work. Anywhere from a brief to a detailed overview would be appreciated.

sound of hostility or is it just a misunderstanding on the internet? Anyway, it doesn't matter..

I Work closely with Business Development and Business Strategies/Research department to give 5 year forecasts of current performance and develop/modify new or current plans and forecasts for our current and potential M&A activities.. Work extensively in Excel for the models and powerpoint when presenting plans and forecasts to executives and board of directors. That's the gist of it.

There are the other Accounting depts in my work, but I don't know too much about them.. I have a general idea of what General Accounting does.. They're the AP group.. Probably only 1 to 2 real accountants (I know one for sure).. One person deals with all the vendor inquiries, one deals with troubled invoices, while the rest of the department do data entry of invoices with Senior reps checking to see if anything is messed up..

That's all I know.

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
I remember this &quot;accountant&quot; from another company who stuck a business card in my face once claiming that he could &quot;get me anything&quot; at his work. His business card said &quot;CGA Level 1&quot; and his &quot;department&quot; at his company was &quot;Corporate Records&quot; aka Photocopying.:rofl:

What that 'Level 1 CGA' photocopier is doing is a big no-no :thumbsdow

From CGA CODE OF ETHICAL PRINCIPLES AND RULES OF CONDUCT:


R614 Use of CGA Reference by Students: Students shall not make any reference to the Certified General Accountants' Association, its name or its designation, on stationery, business cards, business announcements, business directories, office signs or advertising.

[vanados2b]

Originally posted by Shaolin

sound of hostility or is it just a misunderstanding on the internet? Anyway, it doesn't matter..


More a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to sound rude.

[B17a]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
[B
His business card said &quot;CGA Level 1&quot; and his &quot;department&quot; at his company was &quot;Corporate Records&quot; aka Photocopying.:rofl: [/B]

That's hilarious! CGA Level 1 means he paid his fees and is registered, ooooooo ahhhhhh, what a big accomplishment!:rofl:

[Si_FlyGuy]

Funny thing was that he was lecturing me on not carrying a business card with me. "You should ALWAYS carry your business card with you so that you can network". I ain't no salesman. :rofl:

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by vanados2b
Just when everyone thought they were safe from more accounting questions, I must ask another. Does anyone know the salary range of the partners in the Big Four. Does it really differ that much from firm to firm (being that the firms themselves must do differently, and that the partners share in the spoils of the firms)? I was just on another accounting forum and they said that partners salaries can range upwards of 300,000 - half a million. Do any partners or CFO's make those figures, or even seven figures for that matter? Also, I don't think the question of how much time off an accountant gets off a year was clearly answered. Such as, how much vacation time, how many hours a day during busy and non-busy seasons, etc.? Thanks for putting up with my questions:D

partners do not make salaries. they take a portion of the revenues that the firm makes. They are no longer employees of the firm but "partners" in a business. They become liable for any fuck ups that the firm makes. (bascially, but not completely)

depending on the size of the firm they coudl make very little, but in a big four in CALGARY (ie. oil and gas) they make almost guaranteed a minimum of 750k to over 1M, I SHIT YOU NOT. but typically would see in most other firms that were not in such a heavy oil and gas industry at least 600k

I've seen the numbers. and a senior manager makes around a max of 120-130k but when you jump to partner and assume the liability of the firm, you go up to around 600k...

that makes me question WTF... why can't they raise the other salaries, those greedy bastards.

[B17a]

Originally posted by in*10*se


partners do not make salaries. they take a portion of the revenues that the firm makes. They are no longer employees of the firm but &quot;partners&quot; in a business. They become liable for any fuck ups that the firm makes. (bascially, but not completely)

depending on the size of the firm they coudl make very little, but in a big four in CALGARY (ie. oil and gas) they make almost guaranteed a minimum of 750k to over 1M, I SHIT YOU NOT. but typically would see in most other firms that were not in such a heavy oil and gas industry at least 600k

I've seen the numbers. and a senior manager makes around a max of 120-130k but when you jump to partner and assume the liability of the firm, you go up to around 600k...

that makes me question WTF... why can't they raise the other salaries, those greedy bastards.

That's pretty much bang on for the ranges for the big acct firms in terms of salary. Its a huge discrepancy between sr mgr and partner and the one and only reason is pure greed. The partners feel they earned their partnership and therefore are entitled to more, maybe justified, maybe not. At the end of the day, they are making the big dough, not me!:rolleyes:

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by mwmhong


What that 'Level 1 CGA' photocopier is doing is a big no-no :thumbsdow

From CGA CODE OF ETHICAL PRINCIPLES AND RULES OF CONDUCT:


R614 Use of CGA Reference by Students: Students shall not make any reference to the Certified General Accountants' Association, its name or its designation, on stationery, business cards, business announcements, business directories, office signs or advertising.


^^ i can't believe you pulled out this "code of conduct" line...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
either ur super keen, or a super dork that's trying to show that you are enrolled in the CGA program first course and showing off your "knowledge"

oh well. good for you. you throw the book at him.:D

on that note... the guy that has: CGA level 1 after his name is an idiot. you can't add letters to the end of your name if u don't have the designation, basically it's faking qualifications. Ur saying ur something ur not.

you can't go

Joe Blow, CGA
or
Joe Blow, CMA
or
Joe Blow, CA

if you don't have the designation. if ur enrolled in completing ur designation, all you can write is

Joe Blow, Accounting Whore
Joe Blow, Accountant
Joe Blow, Associate
Joe Blow, Staff Accountant 1
Joe Blow, Staff Accountant 2

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by B17a


That's pretty much bang on for the ranges for the big acct firms in terms of salary. Its a huge discrepancy between sr mgr and partner and the one and only reason is pure greed. The partners feel they earned their partnership and therefore are entitled to more, maybe justified, maybe not. At the end of the day, they are making the big dough, not me!:rolleyes:

they justify the money by saying its the risk that a partner takes on by becoming one.

As an employee if i fuck up, i still get paid the same and i don't get named in a lawsuit.

As a partner, if i fuck up, or someone below me fucks up, i don't get paid, and i get named in a lawsuit that can send me to jail...



damn those partners and their filthy rich ways.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
I'm curious about the bonuses offered for lvl 1, 2, and senior accountants at these Big Four firms. Can someone elaborate?

bonuses offered are dependant on whether or not the firm makes the projected revenue you make, and how much over the projected revenue is made.

If your projected revenue nation wide for the firm is say 32 Billion for the year, and the firm only makes 30 Billion. I highly doubt that any bonuses will be paid unless the partners are generous.

if u make like 40Billion over the projected 32 Billion, then I'd be expecting bonuses to be paid out. Depending on the level/experience.

New Accountant
Experienced Accountant
New Senior Accountant
Experienced Senior Accountant
New Manager
Experienced Manager
Senior Manager

will dictate how much of the bonus you will get.

In conclusion. There are no set numbers for bonuses, just a methodology of how they figure out whether or not there is a bonus and how much each level gets it.

[Si_FlyGuy]

You don't have to go to jail if you hide in the Caymans.:thumbsup:

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by B17a


That's pretty much bang on for the ranges for the big acct firms in terms of salary. Its a huge discrepancy between sr mgr and partner and the one and only reason is pure greed. The partners feel they earned their partnership and therefore are entitled to more, maybe justified, maybe not. At the end of the day, they are making the big dough, not me!:rolleyes:
Pretty quick to criticise without walking in their shoes. With their pay they also take on large amount of liability. I don't see someone who has worked in the industry for ~10 years, went to post secondary for atleast 4 years, and is probably the most talented individual availible hasn't earned his / her pay?

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by Mckenzie


I heard from the HR people at EY that all of the summer interns got to go to Florida for a one week conference last summer....sounds like a decent perk.:D I cant wait! *crosses fingers*

I know it is a little old now, but i'll be there, are you going for sure?

[B17a]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing

Pretty quick to criticise without walking in their shoes. With their pay they also take on large amount of liability. I don't see someone who has worked in the industry for ~10 years, went to post secondary for atleast 4 years, and is probably the most talented individual availible hasn't earned his / her pay?

I'm not criticizing, I'm in the biz, I know how it works.

[Si_FlyGuy]

whoa...step away from the adding machine tapes guys. It's all fun and games until someone gets a paper cut.:cry:

[JL Type-S]

A little insight into public accounting...

I work for a mid-size public accounting firm in Edmonton. I have one year of experience and I am currently in Module 3 for CASB.

My work consists of compilation, review and audit engagements. In addition, I prepare personal tax returns and perform special projects such as cash flow projections for business plans. Some jobs such as compilations may last one day while some audits last at most, three weeks. Reviews usually take four days max. As you can see, I get to move from job to job quite quickly so I am exposed to a variety of industries and business issues.

There are several benefits to working in a mid-size firm. For example, you are exposed to a variety of engagements from compilations to audits. Also, the partners are very accessible to answer questions.

As a student, the biggest benefit would be the responsibility of preparing files from front to back. When I am assigned to do a review engagement, I complete the entire file. This includes preparing the working papers to support the review engagement report, determining the tax planning strategies for the shareholder(s) and completing the corporate tax return. We often prepare the personal tax returns for our corporate clients so we can see how corporate decisions impact the shareholder(s)personally.

Feel free to ask more questions.

[crazyning]

Originally posted by JL Type-S

Feel free to ask more questions.

What type of experience did you have prior to articling at this mid-sized firm?

How was the transition from school to work? Was it overwhelming, or do they provide you with the right amount of guidance as to not "hold your hand," but at the same time giving you independence.

What mid-sized firm do you work at?

[JL Type-S]

Originally posted by crazyning


What type of experience did you have prior to articling at this mid-sized firm?

How was the transition from school to work? Was it overwhelming, or do they provide you with the right amount of guidance as to not &quot;hold your hand,&quot; but at the same time giving you independence.

What mid-sized firm do you work at?

I work at Yaremchuk & Annicchiarico LLP (www.ya.ca).

I graduated from the U of A with a co-operative education degree so I had 12 months of work experience. I worked at the Auditor General of Alberta for 8 months and Canadian Western Bank for 4.

I found the transition quite easy from school to work because I had previous office work experience. However, you will find that the work is very difference from what you do in school. For example, in school you learned how to calculate corporate taxes payable by applying the different rates to the different sources of income. In real life, tax software does this for you. However, it is important to know how to do something and why you are doing it.

I found that they do not "hold your hand" very much. Formal training is minimal. Basically, they give you a file (compilation or review) and you do it. Then you submit it to the partner for review. You get review notes if there are any mistakes or changes that need to be made. So some of the time you learn from your mistakes.

To be successful in a mid-size firm you need initiative, good research skills (if you don't know something, it is best to find a solution on your own before you ask someone), an open mind to learning (ie. know what to do and why) and be an independent worker. Individual skills are very important but we also have a good environment where we can ask for help if we have any questions.

[Auditor]

I use to be at a mid-sized firm but the work got repetitive after a while. I switched to one of the big 4 and it is a lot different, busier and a lot more responsibility. In the end I think a mix of both is ideal. Also from my experience the big 4 pay more than the smaller firms.

[crazyning]

Originally posted by JL Type-S

Feel free to ask more questions.

Why do you think Yaremchuk & Annicchiarico LLP chose you to article instead of someone else? Did you have a good GPA at U of A?

Are you the "pick of the litter," the "cream of the crop?"

I wouldn't mind applying at a few CA firms once I'm done school. It's definitely something I'm considering; I'd like to be prepared with the right amount of experience and education.

Got any extra pointers?

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by crazyning


Why do you think Yaremchuk &amp; Annicchiarico LLP chose you to article instead of someone else? Did you have a good GPA at U of A?

Are you the &quot;pick of the litter,&quot; the &quot;cream of the crop?&quot;

I wouldn't mind applying at a few CA firms once I'm done school. It's definitely something I'm considering; I'd like to be prepared with the right amount of experience and education.

Got any extra pointers?

god, read the first 3 pages of the thread.

[crazyning]

Originally posted by in*10*se


god, read the first 3 pages of the thread.

I wanted to get his point of view. Thank you very little....

[Mckenzie]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


I know it is a little old now, but i'll be there, are you going for sure?

haha yeah I went last summer and it was an absolute riot!! 1600 interns from around the world all in one resort. The Americans sure know how to have a good time too...their accounting students are tons of fun and the girls are smokin' hot. Most of the Canadian students sadly were lame and did not want to go out. It is 4 days of pure brain washing and you will likely be presented with a full time offer within 2 weeks of returning.

Enjoy!

:thumbsup:

[JL Type-S]

Originally posted by crazyning


Why do you think Yaremchuk &amp; Annicchiarico LLP chose you to article instead of someone else? Did you have a good GPA at U of A?

Are you the &quot;pick of the litter,&quot; the &quot;cream of the crop?&quot;

I wouldn't mind applying at a few CA firms once I'm done school. It's definitely something I'm considering; I'd like to be prepared with the right amount of experience and education.

Got any extra pointers?

Y&A offered me a position because they felt that I fit well with the firm.

I don't know if I was the "cream of the crop" but that is a good attitute to have during the interview process. Be confident in your interviews.

Your grades and your resume only get you the interview, but good communication skills and interpersonal skills will get you the job. Firms use grades as an indication as to your ability to get through CASB and pass the UFE. But I think most offers are based on the interview.

In today's market, relevant work experience is not extremely important. There is huge demand for accountants. I would suggest taking all the high-level accounting courses such as corporate tax and advanced financial accounting. This will make it easier to complete CASB.

Remember, you are searching for the right firm as much as firms are searching for the right employees.