Mortgage Brokers in the house?

[awd]

If you are a MB or have a referral of a good MB in Cgy please PM with contact info.

Much Appreciated.

[QuasarCav]

I think ZorroAMG is a broker.

[sputnik]

ZorroAMG :thumbsup:

[awd]

Oh ok, I spoke to him awhile back but I assumed he was tied to the Royal Bank?

[ZorroAMG]

I AM with RBC, and we are better than brokers! :D i have some smokin' rates right now, PM me if interested...

[awd]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
I AM with RBC, and we are better than brokers! :D i have some smokin' rates right now, PM me if interested...

But you are affiliated directly with RBC, therefore you are biased to that specific lender. In addition to that, you are unable to shop around for competitive rates from other lenders.

Explain to me why you would be a better choice than a Mortgage Broker?

[ZorroAMG]

Well, for one, you deal with one person/firm, start to finish. I dont hand off the file to another bank in the middle of the transaction. Another is you have a reputable name to make the largest purchase of your life with. Another is that we have branches that you can walk into to speak with someone in person, unlike some of the brokers that use online banks or ING. Another thing is that we actually care about your business, where your mortgage goes and getting your repeat business as opposed to just who offers the best commission out of the FI's...I am just as competitve with my rates as well...

It's your choice, it makes no difference to me, the clients with RBC Mortgages usually stay with RBC if that's any indicator

[E36M3]

My experience has been that dealing directly with the bank is better than with a mortgage broker.

The reason is that by dealing with a mortgage broker you are adding an additional layer and another mouth to feed.

Mortgage brokers make money by marking up the rate that you get. If you deal directly with the bank and negotiate on your own behalf, you can probably do better because they don't have to pay anything to the broker.

Remember that posted rates are just a start. My advice would be to see what someone who will quote you a rate online (like ING) will offer and find a bank that will beat it.. ING is quite aggressive, so they may end up being your best bet.

[bksze]

Depending on your credit situation, it would be prudent to use the bank that you have already established a relationship with. The banks in Canada are all quite competitive when it comes to mortgages and rates, however diligence on your part is still required to ensure you get the best rate.

Mortgage brokers are good when your credit may be so-so, or you're looking for something a little more unique, in which case the broker can shop the numerous products out there for you. However, as it has been aformentioned, unless you have a good referral, you never know if these guys are just out for a piece of your pie or actually want to help you with your purchase.

My personal experience has been to maintain both a broker and a banker, depending on situation needed. This allows me to be flexible with my choices. Regardless though, it is better to be stuck in a good situtation paying a little more, than a bad situation with the best rates.

[ZorroAMG]

I just beat an ING 5yr last night so, they definitely aren't the best rates...

[sputnik]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
I just beat an ING 5yr last night so, they definitely aren't the best rates...

:werd:

ING is always posts a lower rate than the banks posted rates but are usually a 10-20 basis points higher than the low you can get at most lending institutions.

They keep a "no haggle" policy to make it look like they are the "good guys" but in reality you are still paying more than you have to.

[legendboy]

I'd steer clear of the banks. Try Eric Bergen @ Quality Mortgage Center 257.3551

My dads a realtor and been using him for 7 years.

I just got a mortgage thru him and I got 5.5% on 10 YEARS!!!!! :eek: (and its dropped a couple tenths since I signed! )

Tell him Corey, Brents son refered you. :thumbsup:

[bspot]

I was my own broker, I pit a few of the large banks against each other and was given a rate i was eventually told by other brokers/banks that they couldn't touch. Worth the extra work yourself for the ammount of $ you're dealing with.

[EnRich]

You know what... Lets look at your mortgage in a different way... Personally I think taking out a mortgage is one of the biggest mistakes of your life, taking a mortgage out to buy a home is the most stupidest thing a family could do... Let me explain… Look at it this way... If you were to say take out a mortgage for $200,000, for the first 5 - 7 years your going to be paying something like 90%+ interest with very little of your actual money going towards the principle… Now most people take out a mortgage for about 25 years with payments around $1600.00 a month… THAT’S A HUGE INVESTMENT… lets look at a different strategy… What if you were to take out a L.O.C, a line of credit for $200,000 and straight out buy your home… The thing about a line of credit is that you can make interest only payments… let me explain… I can get you a L.O.C for $200,000 for about $1000 a month… Now if you were to only make these 1000 dollar a month payments, you’d NEVER pay off the loan… Lets take that extra $600 dollars a month, and we can go and put that directly towards the principle of the home… Do the math, and you can pay off your home within 19 – 21 years which is 4 years earlier then a mortgage through Zorro… but wait I have a better strategy for you… Lets take that $600 dollars a month and take out ANOTHER L.OC. I can probably get you $130,000 $160,000 dollars for 600/month… That’s money we aren’t using to buy a new car, or vacations or anything like that… It’s money we’ll use for invest purposes ONLY… I have accounts right now earning a guaranteed rate of return at 12.5% interest, invested with several mortgage and insurance companies in Alberta! Lets say however we only earn 9% on 130,000 dollars which is very reasonable … At 9% your money will double every 8 years…. Let me explain by drawing it out

TOTAL L.O.C = 200,000 = 1000/month = INTEREST ONLY (home)
130,000 = 600/month = INTEREST ONLY (investment portfolio)
= 330,000
Total Invested Assets = 130,000
8 years later that money is worth 260,000
16 years later that money is worth 520,000

At the end of 16 years, we’ll take this money out and pay off your L.O.C for your house and all the money used for initial investment purposes 520,000 – 330,000 = 190,000!!! That’s money in YOUR POCKET, you can use for vacations, that new car, or your kids education.

You’ve paid your house off in 16 years rather then 25… All the money you’ve spent investing, (600.00/month) becomes a tax write off, that’s right, a tax right off that you can use every year, I’ve given you $7200 a year back from your income tax because your using that money every month for investment purposes… Why should you not go with a mortgage broker? Because A: he’s using only one bank as his sole purpose for burrowing, (someone’s hand is always in your pocket)
Why should you go with me? Because I work for World Financial Group,
http://www.wfg-online.com/WFG_Public2004/wfghome.asp?loc=can

A company that is bigger then all 5-charter banks in Canada… A company that caters any financial product available in the industry today, that means I can go through any branch, any broker you want INCLUDING Zorro, if ya like… But I’d prefer to get you the best interest rates in the city… I signed 4 clients with TD, last month and working on another 3 this month… TD… I can’t really explain how exactly I’ll do this over this thread, but I’d love to give you a consultation… I’d be happy to give you these free of charge as long as you have your wife cook me and another advisor dinner… Feel free to check out our site… It will take me roughly 1 hour to teach you a strategy such as this and if you like what you see, another hour to go over option… Pm me if interested… and we can crunch some numbers.

Now the reason you've probably never heard of me on this site, and the reason I dont advertise as an advisor like some others do, is because I take stuff like this very seriously, and to be quite honest most of the individuals on this site are either too immature or don't comprehend strategies such as this, and I dont care to share info such as this... Most ppl would rather work harder rather then smarter fo their money...

Rich

Pm even if your only curious, I could change your life...

[bspot]

^ Question.

I'm 22, my only credit rating comes from making car payments. Are you actually going to get me $330,000?

[EnRich]

Originally posted by bspot
^ Question.

I'm 22, my only credit rating comes from making car payments. Are you actually going to get me $330,000?

No... But anyone that qualifies for for a mortgage can qualify for a L.O.C... I could probably get you 10,000 - 50,000 depending on your credit score... Probably more around 10,000... My main clientele are high networth clients... To give you a better answer though, I'm 24, last year I made 63,000 with WFG working only 2-3 days a week incolaberation with my own sales contracting company which provides me with an initial clientele database... I only qualify for around the same, and I own a $40,000 dollar car which I bought straight up...

Rich

[legendboy]

^ but you still can't buy a house!

Other than that I find what you said very intresting.

[Weapon_R]

Interesting concept you have there Rich...but where the hell is anyone going to give you a 12.5% guaranteed interest rate right now?

[EnRich]

It's a variety of differant things, mostly Canadian small companies stock, insurance, and mortgage companies... Every porfollio I make up is differant and catered to my client... Fact is though I can get you minimum 8 - 9%... Also and again you need to speak to me in person for me to explain this, but all the gains your making from interest rates are going into P.T.S (permanant tax shelters) which is another form of investment... Again another hours worth of info...

[1badPT]

Yes your solution isn't going to work for everyone Rich - a mortgage is an option thats available to a wider range of people. I would guess that its a minority of people here who would be able to qualify for a LOC of that size, secured or otherwise. Its a good idea for people who have non-liquid high net worth, but for the average person here, a mortgage is still going to be the main option available to them, unless I'm misunderstanding something. I'd be interested to read your reply.

[Weapon_R]

I think Rich has a great idea, but most people fishing for mortgages right now do not have the assets or credit available to get $330,000 LOC.

For those that can, my bet is that they're already financially stable and do not need a mortgage, unless they recognize the benefit of the extra 200k after 16 years..

[EnRich]

Originally posted by legendboy
^ but you still can't buy a house!

Other than that I find what you said very intresting.

Right he can't get a L.O.C to buy a house... He couldnt get a mortgage either :( But then again, ANYONE who qualifies for a mortgage can get me to work out a strategy like this for em...

And GUYS/GALS this one strategy is nothing compared to the stuff I can teach you about RRSPs and tax strategies...

[EnRich]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
I think Rich has a great idea, but most people fishing for mortgages right now do not have the assets or credit available to get $330,000 LOC.

For those that can, my bet is that they're already financially stable and do not need a mortgage, unless they recognize the benefit of the extra 200k after 16 years..

You couldnt be more wrong my friend... In the case of 1600... Weather that 1600 goes into a mortgage, or 1000 LOC / 600 LOC invested... Its the same capitial, differant financial vehicle... They'll qualify trust me... I've done it for MANY MANY PPL... And wtf financially stable? did you know 90% of Canadians have less then $3000 dollars saved up for retirement? Not counting asset... My latest client... IBM systems programmer in Calgary... $225,000 A year income... House paid off, 100,000 in RRSPs... Think he had everything set up right... ??? Far from it... It took me 5 hours to set him straight bout his RRSPs....

Another example...
avg house, in RockyRidge... Guys works for some security company or something... Solo earner, 2 brand new kids at home, wifes at home... 2 hours later, I tought him how to write off the mortage payments on his house... You heard that right... writing off mortgage payments on his house... Feel free to tell your parents bout this, but only pm me if your seriously interested in sitting down and learning these strategies, cause I'm gonna be pretty busy this month...

Rich

[EnRich]

Originally posted by 1badPT
I can answer that since I work in a different part of the same industry.

There are two ways you can pay a financial advisor - fee for service where you pay up front to receive advice from an advisor or commission - where the company that recieves the funds on his recommendation pays the advisor on your behalf.

In either case you're only paying him if you agree with his strategy. :)

Your absolutly right... The products I show you, sell themselves... Your right my product doesn't work for everyone... But I can help the majority of the ppl I see with some very basic info... :thumbsup: So far my stats are around 85%

[ZorroAMG]

Rich, great theories IF: You want to remain in the same house for 16-21 Years, and if you have the downpayment to qualify for the secured LOC.

MOST people put less than 25% down and change houses every 4-7 yrs. Your strategies are different and work for some people, but not for everyone. If your proposed financial strategies were so sound and guaranteed and accessible/simple to qualify for, mortgages (and brokers for that matter), wouldn't exist.

BTW, any accelerated bi-weekly payment plan will cut the life of the mortgage from 25 to 19 yrs, making your propositions a touch less special :)

[roopi]

Is this the same MLM World Financial Group you work for that is being talked about on this site:

http://www.wfg-offline.com/

http://camweb.org/bbs/finance/index.cgi?read=8475

[finboy]

Originally posted by roopi
Is this the same MLM World Financial Group you work for that is being talked about on this site:

http://www.wfg-offline.com/

http://camweb.org/bbs/finance/index.cgi?read=8475

from the site...


Often the WFG's sales pitch will be about early retirement, 12% consistent rate of return on investment, guaranteed life insurance, the potential to earn six figure income, and all expense-paid trips to Hawaii

:dunno:

[Weapon_R]

The idea has merit, regardless of the history of the company.

Question for Rich:

If someone were to leave the house out of it, get a 200k LOC, and invest it at 9%. Would it be reasonable to see 400k after 8 years?

If you paid the interest for 8 years at $1000/month, it would work out to be $96,000.

400,000 - 200,000 - 96,000 = $104,000 profit?

[bksze]

just curious Rich

in your original calculations

you indicate after 16 years you'll have a profit of 190 000.

520 000 - 330 000 = 190 000

don't you have to subtract the payments that you are making over the 16 years just for interest alone?

1600*12months*16years = 307200

where does that money factor in in the equation?? even if you include the 7200/ year in tax writeoff, assuming you get to write it off completely, you're still in the hole 2000.

307200 - 7200*16 years = 192 000


maybe i'm missing something here.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by roopi
Is this the same MLM World Financial Group you work for that is being talked about on this site:

http://www.wfg-offline.com/

http://camweb.org/bbs/finance/index.cgi?read=8475


Whoops!! :rofl:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by bksze
just curious Rich

in your original calculations

you indicate after 16 years you'll have a profit of 190 000.

520 000 - 330 000 = 190 000

don't you have to subtract the payments that you are making over the 16 years just for interest alone?

1600*12months*16years = 307200

where does that money factor in in the equation?? even if you include the 7200/ year in tax writeoff, assuming you get to write it off completely, you're still in the hole 2000.

307200 - 7200*16 years = 192 000


maybe i'm missing something here.

Makes sense, but you could also argue this:

You made a total of 307,200 in payments. You have 190,000 in cash, a 200,000 dollar home that is paid off, and the potential to write off a lot of payments.

In theory, you could assume that you paid $117,200 (307,200 - 190,000) for a $200,000 home, and that is not really considering the tax savings you may accrue during the process.

[Weapon_R]

Now for Zorro:

Is there a way to specify how you want your payments to be made in purchasing a home? For example, imagine a person's mortgage is $1000/month. Could I pay $1,150/month and specify that the $1000 go to the interest and the $150 go directly to the actual principle?

If this is possible, there may be ways to shave years off the payment of your home.

[E36M3]

World Financial Group seems to be very sketchy. The Money magazine article is really well written and definitely worth a read:

http://www.wfg-offline.com/moneymag/page1.htm

"Amway from Hell"

What a great line.

[EnRich]

Originally posted by roopi
Is this the same MLM World Financial Group you work for that is being talked about on this site:

http://www.wfg-offline.com/

Yea it is... WFG is having some major major problems in the states with financial insurance products... To be straight up they even had to change their name from WFA to WFG because of the bad rep they were getting... I ain't goin in depth but before I joined WFG as a rep I've heard of these things, and being straight up I'll tell you that alot of the stuff on that site is absolutly true... WFG recruits ppl because some offices stress that this is the only way to generate leads... They recruit ppl, filter them, after which the recruits can sell their family and friends... Soon after these recruits, are left with nothing, no way of getting new leads, new clients in which to promote their products... The recruits feel cheated because their MD get half the profit... Because the commisions are so high initially, many recruits quit their full time jobs to join WFG full time soon after discovering they've made a mistake and decide to take it out by telling their pathetic stories on the net... These ppl are un motivated (un-driven), un-energetic, lifeless pathetic degenerates that will coast through life living from pay check to pay check looking for the easy way out, believing that if they work harder for their money they'll end up getting somewhere, the fact of the matter is, you ask any millionair on the street if they've worked hard, they'll tell you no, I didn't have to work hard, they worked smarter... I had a meeting with Ben actually, one of the moderators (hes an old school buddy of mine), another friend of mine and my MD (marketing Director)... My MD looks for quality, not quantity... I'm currently opening up my own WFG office in Calgary and like so many other also looking for recruits... Fact is I ain't looking for quantity, I look for quality, professional key ppl to do business for me, not some fucking asshole I find off the street... Thats the problem with WFG, and thats the reason for these sites, ppl hiring essentially anyone... I've hired only 3 ppl in my 1 year with WFG, btw Ben, Chris (the bald guy) you met thats a professional trainer at Golds made $3700 last month, promoting to clients he trains from the gym... I'm a straight up guy. not matter what I'll always say things straight up... These strategies arn't BS, they really do work if you have the right person promoting it... Aegon, one of our sponsors as billions in assets... Why would they sponsor a scam? Last but not least... Zorro, I apolgize for sayin this, but Banks are a retial outfit... You go inside a bank and ask for a mortgage their gonna give you a mortgage... Zorro and a a few other brookers on the site are very well aware of some of these strategies, and they know they work... Fact is Zorro ain't gonna argue with you if you walk up to him and ask him for a mortgage... All hes going to be worried about is getting you the best possble rate from RBC... Hes doing his job, I'm doin mine...

Rich

[EnRich]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Now for Zorro:

Is there a way to specify how you want your payments to be made in purchasing a home? For example, imagine a person's mortgage is $1000/month. Could I pay $1,150/month and specify that the $1000 go to the interest and the $150 go directly to the actual principle?

If this is possible, there may be ways to shave years off the payment of your home.

Thats a perfect scenario for L.O.C

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by EnRich


Thats a perfect scenario for L.O.C

That is true, but the difference here is that, eventually, that $1000/month will go to the principle in a mortgage, while it will
never go to the principle in a line of credit.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Now for Zorro:

Is there a way to specify how you want your payments to be made in purchasing a home? For example, imagine a person's mortgage is $1000/month. Could I pay $1,150/month and specify that the $1000 go to the interest and the $150 go directly to the actual principle?

If this is possible, there may be ways to shave years off the payment of your home.

WeaponR,

Basically that's how it works already, EG: 1000/month 800 goes to interest 200 goes to principal.

Now what you can do with me is set it up as accelerated payments bi-weekly instead of monthly. You split the montly payment in 2 and basically all that extra interest saved from making pmts more often gets put to principal...like I said in a previous post, bringing the mortgage from 25 yrs to 19-21..

Also what you could do is what is called a double up payment. min 100$ max double the morgtage pmt: say 1000$/month and you want to pay 1500 for 6 months or something. No prob, just phone the banker handling the mortgage and they'll set it up. Also, you can make a total lump sum payment of up to 10% f the balance towards the mortgage without penalty...

There are a bunch of options, we aren't the bad guys ;)

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Now for Zorro:

Is there a way to specify how you want your payments to be made in purchasing a home? For example, imagine a person's mortgage is $1000/month. Could I pay $1,150/month and specify that the $1000 go to the interest and the $150 go directly to the actual principle?

If this is possible, there may be ways to shave years off the payment of your home.

Here is a little blurb from my mortgage commitment papers. Not sure if this is federal law or just the policys of FirstLine Mortgages (cibc).

And this is something above and beyond the accelerated bi weekly payment plan.

"When not in defualt, you shall have the privilege of paying additional amounts of principal, without notice bonus or penalty on any payment date. Such additional payments must each be in a minimun amount of $100.00, and taken together shall not exceed 20% of the original principal amount of the mortgage during any 12 month period following the intrest adjustment date or each anniversary thereof.

This privilege is non-cumulative and does not apply if you prepay the principal amount of the mortgage in full. This is the case even if you have not yet used this privilage in the 12 month period during which the mortage is prepaid in full.

When not in defualt, once during each 12 month period following the intrest adjustment date of any anniversary therof, you shall have the privilage of increasing your regular principal and intrest payment in an amount not to exceede 25% of the amount of the original regular mortgage payment. This privilege is on a non-cumlative basis. You may also decrease the amount of your regular principal and intrest payment once during any 12 month period following the intrest adjsutment date or anniversary therof provided that the resulting amortization period does not exceed the original amortization period less the amount of time that has elasped since you took out the original principal and intrest payment."

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


WeaponR,

Basically that's how it works already, EG: 1000/month 800 goes to interest 200 goes to principal.



It's good to hear, but can you increase that? With respect to the example I used.

If it already works where $800 goes to interest, $200 to the principal, could you pay $1200/month and have $800 go to interest, and $400 to the principal?

That extra $200/month is 2400/year. In 15 years, you will find that a small $200/month payment will eventually knock $36,000 extra on your principal. Not bad, I think.

EDIT: If you couple this with biweekly payments, you get even more benefit. A bi weekly schedule will allow you to make one more payment each year. In 15 years, $1000 * 15 will work out to $15000 more paid.

In total, if this type of method is used, you have the potential of paying $51,000 more towards your mortgage in 15 years. This saves a lot of money.

[1badPT]

Edit: replying to roopi

WFG is no different from any other sales agency. Have a look through this thread:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68249

Companies get attacked all the time whenever people don't meet with success in a business venture. Its too easy to blame rather than accept responsiblity.

[EnRich]

Originally posted by 1badPT
Edit: replying to roopi

WFG is no different from any other sales agency. Have a look through this thread:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68249

Companies get attacked all the time whenever people don't meet with success in a business venture. Its too easy to blame rather than accept responsiblity.

EXACTLY... and I'm getting really fucking sick of ppl like this too... Good find man... Your right, some WFG offices are set up to recruit, recruit, recruit... My MD, is one of the smartest business men I've ever met, and my strategy works, this ain't no BS...

[Ethanets]

They made an elderly woman with a pension believe that remortgaging her house would be worth it for her cause it would give her income to go on vacations. They maxed out her home equity loan for which she is now repaying a mortgage she already paid for in full 10 yrs ago. Poor lady is now paying 750 a month which she can barely afford!!!! instead of using her pension towards saving up yearly for her vacation she is paying off that home equity loan and has to also rent out rooms to help pay the mortgage. WFG people had told her it would make her have more income instead she is living day by day trying hard to pay off debt plus losing money in Enrich's so called investments. I would not trust a thing WFG has to say. There MLM corporate way only helps the rich get richer and the poor lose all their belongings to those rich bastards. I think the best way to go again is Royal Bank. That is my unbiased opinion. I got a mortgage through them and I dont have perfect credit!!! Go with Zorro. Sorry Enrich but your corporation has just to stop using old people as your money blankets. When you guys give the old lady I know her money back in full plus interest I will trust you guys. The worst of it was WFG also talked to her elderly friends to which I am sooooooooooo glad did not fall for their CRAP!!!!!!!! Enrich go work for someone who gives a damn about us poor folks!!!!

[EnRich]

Originally posted by Ethanets
They made an elderly woman with a pension believe that remortgaging her house would be worth it for her cause it would give her income to go on vacations. They maxed out her home equity loan for which she is now repaying a mortgage she already paid for in full 10 yrs ago. Poor lady is now paying 750 a month which she can barely afford!!!! instead of using her pension towards saving up yearly for her vacation she is paying off that home equity loan and has to also rent out rooms to help pay the mortgage. WFG people had told her it would make her have more income instead she is living day by day trying hard to pay off debt plus losing money in Enrich's so called investments. I would not trust a thing WFG has to say. There MLM corporate way only helps the rich get richer and the poor lose all their belongings to those rich bastards. I think the best way to go again is Royal Bank. That is my unbiased opinion. I got a mortgage through them and I dont have perfect credit!!! Go with Zorro. Sorry Enrich but your corporation has just to stop using old people as your money blankets. When you guys give the old lady I know her money back in full plus interest I will trust you guys. The worst of it was WFG also talked to her elderly friends to which I am sooooooooooo glad did not fall for their CRAP!!!!!!!! Enrich go work for someone who gives a damn about us poor folks!!!!

Only way that happened is if your lady friend invested in a high risk portfolio... Fuck man RRSPs one of the worst investments you can make generate 8.91% right now and thats LOW LOW (lowest) risk... so get the fuck off me saying that trash... Anyways this is the last time I'm gonna defend WFG, I don't really care what most ppl think, I get 1 - 3 new clients a week man, and if I was fucking them over, I'd probably get shot... Pm me if anyone wants to seriously hear me out...

Rich

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Ethanets
They made an elderly woman with a pension believe that remortgaging her house would be worth it for her cause it would give her income to go on vacations. They maxed out her home equity loan for which she is now repaying a mortgage she already paid for in full 10 yrs ago. Poor lady is now paying 750 a month which she can barely afford!!!! instead of using her pension towards saving up yearly for her vacation she is paying off that home equity loan and has to also rent out rooms to help pay the mortgage. WFG people had told her it would make her have more income instead she is living day by day trying hard to pay off debt plus losing money in Enrich's so called investments. I would not trust a thing WFG has to say. There MLM corporate way only helps the rich get richer and the poor lose all their belongings to those rich bastards. I think the best way to go again is Royal Bank. That is my unbiased opinion. I got a mortgage through them and I dont have perfect credit!!! Go with Zorro. Sorry Enrich but your corporation has just to stop using old people as your money blankets. When you guys give the old lady I know her money back in full plus interest I will trust you guys. The worst of it was WFG also talked to her elderly friends to which I am sooooooooooo glad did not fall for their CRAP!!!!!!!! Enrich go work for someone who gives a damn about us poor folks!!!!


Although you have my sympathy, ultimately the decision is up to the customer on whether or not to accept a package. I'd be a fool to accept the first package that comes my way, be it with WFG or RBC or anyone else.

[EnRich]

I usually give ppl about 1 - 3 or even 4 differant options depending on how volitile they want their investment to be... Thats why I find that shit up there almost hard to believe... For her to lose money investing with a licensed brooker, from TD, or Royal or whatever, btw we use brookers like Zorro to invest, its not me investing your money, I just tell you about it, but for her to lose her money like that... wow she musta been in like the 26%+... not to mention... The markets in both the United States and Canada have been going up steadily since the 1930s... Sure there is volitility, but its ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS going up... you better not be making that shit up actually dude...

[roopi]

It's broker not brooker (and ZorroAMG is neither). I'm not bashing your company. I was just wondering if that was the same organization. Hope you didn't take it the wrong way.

[EnRich]

No didnt at all.. Alot of offices have that problem... Its cause MDs are greedy, I knew bout that problem long ago

[ZorroAMG]

Well all I have to say about the old lady story is that it is not ONLY up to the individual but a HUGE (majority) part of the responsibility is up to the rep or financial planner. THEY are the ones with the knowledge/trianing/hopefully EDUCATION and are the ones we turn to for advice. It is NOT buyer beware when you pay someone to plan your financial future. You are not buying a uused car through private sale, these reps are (Or should be) governed by regulations and should have the clients best interest in mind. I have turned down and advised clients against purchasing becuase their ratios were too close or if they had no real savings besides the downpayment. Letting someone become house poor or causing their standard of living to decrease because you want a comission is bad business PERIOD.

I know nothing of EnRich's company so I will say nothing bad about it, but saying a Chartered Bank is a poor financial choice over an MLM is just crazy talk.

[ehos]

WFG is a scam plain and simple.

Let me break to down thusly..

1) The HELOC is their main 'pull'. Only problem (as has been stated by their rep here), not too many people can get 200 Grand HELOC (good luck!).

2) THEN when they hook you with 1 (which you can't get) they hit you with their MLM, PL Insuance scam. They say it's the best thing since sliced bread, but anyone with half a brain can see right through it (only problem is most people are pretty gullable).

I went to their little 'session', in the end they tried to sell me something that costs ONLY $150-250/month, and its so AMAZINGLY top heavy it's stupid. Basicaly you pay all this money for ZERO return for 5 years. God.

STAY AWAY!

Post the numbers and I will shred that PL piece of shit to put it bluntly.

The HELOC is nice, but you will NEVER qualify for it.

[ehos]

Originally posted by EnRich

EXACTLY... and I'm getting really fucking sick of ppl like this too... Good find man... Your right, some WFG offices are set up to recruit, recruit, recruit... My MD, is one of the smartest business men I've ever met, and my strategy works, this ain't no BS...

Ok, then tell us how you make money? Is it from your 'investing' advice? Or the truth, you selling PL (Personal Life) Insurnace and the kickback from that?

[ehos]

"Unlike load mutual funds, which compensate brokers in single-digit percentages, insurers forward well over 100% of a policy's first-year premium to the sales force. That means big numbers even from small-time premium payments. And that, in turn, is ideal for a pyramid: It's easier to entice recruits and to pay all the different levels of people. At WMA, those commissions get split between the actual seller of the product and everyone in the so-called up line--the person who recruited him, the person who recruited that person, and so on and so on, all the way up to Humphrey's privately held WMA Agency. On the average premium (about $1,850), a broker three levels away from the salesperson in the field would get $240.50--not bad for essentially doing nothing. And at WMA, some brokers can keep getting payments even after leaving the firm. Heck, heirs can continue receiving the money even after a broker dies."



To sum up: VERY top heavy. They will absolutley juice with this VUL/ PL (Canada) scam.

I can't believe people are so stupid to fall for this. And these VULTURES feeding off these people.

[ehos]

Ok, I issue you a challenge then. Post your PL life returns (the so called 9-12% 'investment'), and how much is payed into it.

And, in return I will make a mockery of it (I'm still AMAZED so many suckers are out there!).

Damn. This pisses me off so much.

[ZorroAMG]

Actually, this acquaintance of mine called me 2 yrs ago for a meeting recruiting me for WFG, I totally forgot about it because I brushed it off as a scam back then..maybe my first instincts were correct....

MLM= :barf:

[sputnik]

All this "financial advice" from the same guy (EnRich) who would spam EVERY "gym" thread with his Gold's Gym "hookup" (read: kickback).

MLM = :thumbsdow no matter HOW one tries to justify it.

The absolute worst is how aggresive these MLM people are. I have had to avoid a number of people I know that got suckered into MLM scams because that IS ALL THAT THEY TALK ABOUT. And they harass you with constant asinine questions like "Don't you want to be rich?" ... "Do you like not making six digits?" ... "Don't you want to be your own boss?"

The only life insurance I will ever need is the insurance that work pays for (3x my salary w/ inflation adjustments) and my mortgage policy so that if I die my wife will get the house.

Thanks ehos for the Cliff Notes version of WFG

[1badPT]

Say what you will about WFG - I don't know enough about them to have a strong opinion one way or another, but some of the stuff I've heard about life insurance in this thread is absolutely ludicrous.

If anyone wants advice about life insurance, or financial plans in general, I work at one of the industry's largest companys - Manulife Financial. If you want advice on what will and will not work life insurance wise, feel free to PM me and I will give you much more sound advice. I'm licensed in BC, AB, SK, MB and ON to transact life and accident policies and I've got Level 2 certification in 4 provinces with 4 years of experience. Although I no longer do financial plans, I will be able to refer you to reputable advisors I do business with.

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by EnRich
It's a variety of differant things, mostly Canadian small companies stock, insurance, and mortgage companies... Every porfollio I make up is differant and catered to my client... Fact is though I can get you minimum 8 - 9%... Also and again you need to speak to me in person for me to explain this, but all the gains your making from interest rates are going into P.T.S (permanant tax shelters) which is another form of investment... Again another hours worth of info...

I've yet to see a mortgage company offer a guarenteed return in the sense that the principal is guarenteed.

No mortgage can ever be guarenteed - the builder can always skip his payments, and all you get is his collateral (Which isn't worth the loan, otherwise he would've went to the bank for a lower rate).

[EnRich]

Originally posted by ehos
Ok, I issue you a challenge then. Post your PL life returns (the so called 9-12% 'investment'), and how much is payed into it.

And, in return I will make a mockery of it (I'm still AMAZED so many suckers are out there!).

Damn. This pisses me off so much.


Suckers...??? You think you know shit, but you have no clue... I've signed dentists, engineers, IMB personel, if this was such a scam, why do soooo many ppl go for it, why do I get referals if this is such a scam... Who the fuck are you anyway, your prob some little 20 year old kid still takin the bus to the grocery store where you earn min wage to pack ppls groceries... I gotta love this though, how the ppl on this site (in general) know so much about everything there is to know... What pisses me off is how ppl like you still exist within society... And wtf is with that memberships to golds? The gym is one of the best in the city, best gym i've ever been to, why wouldnt I promote something I believe in? esp when it earns me a free membership for life? Which I got btw, thanks to ppl from this site... Actually dude since this is a car forum and you have no cars listed, lets see what kinda car you drive... Post a pic... A car tells me alot about a person... And if do you in fact take the bus, dont even fucking go into saying your a sorry ass fucking loser who spends all his money to goto school... Cause I've been going to school which costs me 14,000/year (DeVry, never go there btw guys, terrible school) and I still managed to buy two new cars straight up cash in my life time, and I'm 24... Get a life outside the forum dude...

Rich

[sputnik]

Originally posted by EnRich



Suckers...??? You think you know shit, but you have no clue... I've signed dentists, engineers, IMB personel, if this was such a scam, why do soooo many ppl go for it, why do I get referals if this is such a scam... Who the fuck are you anyway, your prob some little 20 year old kid still takin the bus to the grocery store where you earn min wage to pack ppls groceries... I gotta love this though, how the ppl on this site (in general) know so much about everything there is to know... What pisses me off is how ppl like you still exist within society... And wtf is with that memberships to golds? The gym is one of the best in the city, best gym i've ever been to, why wouldnt I promote something I believe in? esp when it earns me a free membership for life? Which I got btw, thanks to ppl from this site... Actually dude since this is a car forum and you have no cars listed, lets see what kinda car you drive... Post a pic... A car tells me alot about a person... And if do you in fact take the bus, dont even fucking go into saying your a sorry ass fucking loser who spends all his money to goto school... Cause I've been going to school which costs me 14,000/year (DeVry, never go there btw guys, terrible school) and I still managed to buy two new cars straight up cash in my life time, and I'm 24... Get a life outside the forum dude...

Rich

Wow... you sure get off on how much you tell people you spend. At the moment, I drive a couple of beaters a 1987 Cutlass Supreme and I have a 1982 Ford F-150 truck for hauling junk around. I dont need a nice car. For me a new car is a rather poor investment (but im sure you know ALL about what a good investment is). I can appreciate automotive technology and by owning numerous beaters and working on them myself, I have gained quite a few skills when it comes to working on them (my dad and I built a 36 Ford Coupe when I was in highschool).

I am 25, own my own house, getting married in July and have a good IT job with the TSX and am finishing my CCNP. But who cares? Want to compete to see whos girlfriend is hotter? I have a great life outside of Beyond. I feel so sorry your friends who are planning on buying a house and are getting a mortgage, they must avoid you like the plague. Do you harass them as much as you put down people who chose to get a mortgage here?

Personally, actions speak louder than theories. I would like to meet some people who have bought houses on the WFG system and are happy and arent required to sell anything to their friends and family or be required to buy insurance.

So now that I have been completely honest. Lets see the picture of your house that you bought using your system.

[bol]

Originally posted by EnRich

*SNIP*
f*** this f*** that
f*** you
etcetc


Nice job EnRich. That was real professional of you.

Closed.

Bottom line: If you want financial advice talk to a professional directly and a car forum is not a good place to look.