ADAD's Bachelor of Design (BDes) degree in Photography - Career Outlook?

[Ekliptix]

http://photography.acad.ca/

I'm seriously looking into this program but I'm concerned about the job market now, and in 4 years.

What's your take on this if you're in the field?

thanks

calvin?

[Superesc]

Well there's many area where Photography can be use. There will always be a Photography industry, but really depends on which area you want to go into. (Model? Photojournal? Freelance? Studio? Outdoor? )

I think if you want to do anything with ART, ACAD is the place to go in Western Canada.

[Ekliptix]

I believe students select an area to specialize in at the tail end of the program. Are you saying there are areas more in demand then others currently?

[Superesc]

hmm I would think there are more lucative area then others. Maybe Melinda , Ben, Beryl, and any other photo experts can shed more light on this subject.

[benyl]

Did you see the bottom of the page?


Effective January 1, 2004, admission to the BFA in Photographic Arts is suspended indefinitely. This change does not effect students who were previously admitted to the program. Current Photographic Arts students have until June 2007 to complete their BFA degree. See Also: About the Program

Dunno what it means though.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Superesc
hmm I would think there are more lucative area then others. Maybe Melinda , Ben, Beryl, and any other photo experts can shed more light on this subject.
Graham, feel free to pm me about this stuff, I've done alot of research on schooling and different aspects of the photography industry...where the money is, careers, ect ect ect. If you have questions, I'll try to help if I can :)

[sputnik]

My finance is in the 3rd year of the Photography (BDes) program at ACAD.

For her, she feels that her employment potential will be very good. However like 95% of photographers, she will be a self employed contractor looking for contracts and not have a cushy salary with a job with one company. She is specializing currently in fashion and hair photography but is also working on commercial still life to diversify her portfolio.

One thing to remember with ACAD is that you are required to take a "core year" for your first year in which you will be taking painting, drawing and other art classes with only one photography class per semester. You also need a diverse art portfolio before you can get in. So you might want to check the requirements for that.

The reason why the applications are being refused at this moment is that they are restructuring the program to become more of a vocational program instead of being a fine arts program. So more digital work will be included. Also, like getting into ACAD in general, you need a photography portfolio to get into the photography program (so thats 2 portfolios, one for your core year and one to get into photography). However, your work should be more than acceptable.

I would HIGHLY recommend ACAD (as far as western canada goes) for a photography education. You have access to very high quality gear and a number of the instructors are also professional photographers as well as instructors. Many will say that you can learn photography on your own, but to be honest ACAD students are still better than many of the self-taught photograpers I know (including myself... heh). The quality of work that my finance has is quite incredible and she has improved immensly over the past few years, even though she felt she was pretty good before she started school.

[Melinda]

Oh yeah I forgot...They do mostly film work at ACAD, I think it will be a long time before they go full digital...so be prepared to work long hours in the lab and dark room..

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Melinda
Oh yeah I forgot...They do mostly film work at ACAD, I think it will be a long time before they go full digital...so be prepared to work long hours in the lab and dark room..

Not as much as you would think. My fiance is in 3rd year and shoots most of her work with a 20D. Also the majority of the darkroom work is only in the 2nd year. In third year the film you shoot is mostly 35mm E6 and 4x5 E6/C41 which is processed for you and is almost never printed.

In fourth year you work in whatever format you want and have assignments based on the area of photography in which you wish to work. In the world of commercial photography it is understood that film is quickly becoming a thing of the past. So ACAD actually encourages the use of digital. In fact there was a huge debate last year when the head of the department suggested that the photography department teach using digital gear for 90% of the courses. In fact two instructors decided to retire at that time (both were in their 50s).

So by the time someone gets into ACADs photography program now. There will be VERY little film work done anymore.

[Melinda]

^^ That's good that they are making that switch, but when I was at SAIT I sat and talked to a few 4th year ACAD photo students who hated film but said they were forced to use it alot of the time. SAIT teaches film, but we had the option to use digital for the entire course if we wanted to skip film all together. I have a feeling SAIT is probably all (or mostly all) digital by now as well.

If it's a digital course, then sounds better than it was a few years ago :thumbsup:

[sputnik]

When picking schools. I would check out the Student Show going on at Photospace Gallery (in the Artspace building) right now.

I know its only a small portion of photographers and that anyone can pretty much enter their work. However you may be able to see differences in the quality of work between schools.

Isn't SAIT more of a "photojournalism" course?

[Melinda]

Yes, but they do cater to just about every photo industry out there including fashion photography, portrait photography, product photography, lighting, setting up your own business weather it be freelance photo journalist or your own studio, they do cover it all. Less artistic styles but when stacked against ACAD's stuff, the work is very much the same 'quality', just maybe slightly different style in some people's case.

I had a friend who went to SAIT with me and she was sooo close to heading to ACAD after she finished at SAIT. She went and had an interview with them and found out that over 4 years, she'd be re-learning much of what we learned in two (of course it would be somewhat different, but she found out ACAD has a much slower paced course)

In the end, it comes down to what school you prefer and what style of photography you wanna go for. SAIT also offers extra courses you can take that specializes just in one area of the industry so you really do get a lot of learning there...you just have to take the writing part of journalism along with the photography when you're at SAIT, which just opens you up to more potential jobs :)

[sputnik]

Slower perhaps. However some people want a degree (Bachelor of Design) and the ability to use that for further university education. In the end, education or not. It comes down to your portfolio strength when getting contracts.

What I have seen though is that the best photographers are ones with mentors who are in the same field as what they want to be in. My suggestion would be to assist for professionals and learn as they work. Sure its not the most glamourous work, but the experience is invaluble (especially if you click on a personal level and not just professionally). Unfortunately many pros are biased to people that are students of or graduated from the same school that they did, so you might see a bit of discrimination from time to time, but thats life.

ACAD doesnt require any journalism courses with the B.Des program. However, most photographers do their own writing and many journalists don't take their own photographs. So I question how many more jobs there would be in that field anyways. Unless it was some tiny magazine that had no budget for a staff photographer.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by sputnik
Slower perhaps. However some people want a degree (Bachelor of Design) and the ability to use that for further university education. In the end, education or not. It comes down to your portfolio strength when getting contracts.

Agreed with your portfolio statement...I've seen some self-educated photogs with incredible portfolios and I've seen some educated people with shit portfolios. The SAIT journalism program is 2 out of the 4 years of the Bachelors of Communication at U of C, so while it isn't a Bachelor's degree, it isn't just some picnic certificate course either.


What I have seen though is that the best photographers are ones with mentors who are in the same field as what they want to be in. My suggestion would be to assist for professionals and learn as they work. Sure its not the most glamourous work, but the experience is invaluble (especially if you click on a personal level and not just professionally). Unfortunately many pros are biased to people that are students of or graduated from the same school that they did, so you might see a bit of discrimination from time to time, but thats life.
100% agree. You learn so much more from real experience than you do in a classroom. Having someone there that you can watch or ask questions is such a huge help :)


However, most photographers do their own writing and many journalists don't take their own photographs. So I question how many more jobs there would be in that field anyways. Unless it was some tiny magazine that had no budget for a staff photographer.
It can be argued the other way around. ALOT of journalists do their own photography, and alot of them dont...whereas ALOT of photographers couldn't write a story if their lives depended on it and alot of them could...that argument doesn't hold up very well in defending a program or the job market.

Alot of people I do work for love that I'm versatile in both fields, it takes out the work of finding two people to go cover a story or an event, saves them money of hiring two separate people for the job and a person who does both will get the right photos to go with their story and the right interviews to go with their pictures. That, and sometimes it isn't always possible to find 2 people to head out together.

If an employer has a company that has writers as well as photographers and they're looking at two fairly equal portfolios, they'll probably jump on someone they can call in to do that little extra bit if it's ever needed, even if this person is just being hired as a photographer. How many people can say that they stick ONLY to what they're hired for in any job? There's crossover everywhere, I don't see a huge disadvantage to having both skills.

I'm not saying ACAD is bad, not by far. They have some amazing work coming out of that school, just don't write off other courses just because they don't give you a Bachelor degree. Photography is only 40% knowledge (in my opinion) and 60% photographer...if you don't have what it takes, you wont make it no matter where you went to school.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Melinda

I'm not saying ACAD is bad, not by far. They have some amazing work coming out of that school, just don't write off other courses just because they don't give you a Bachelor degree. Photography is only 40% knowledge (in my opinion) and 60% photographer...if you don't have what it takes, you wont make it no matter where you went to school.

Before you start taking this discussion as a personal attack at your education, please realize that I didnt write off your course. I just wanted to illustrate the differences between the schools and their courses (thats was Ekliptix was trying to do anyways). You said that and ACAD degree is the same thing as the SAIT course just 2 years longer. Personally I dont think that is the case.

Stacey (my fiance) researched SAIT at the time and found it to be not as well rounded as the ACAD course and chose ACAD. She has no interest in journalism at all and wants to be a good photographer first and foremost. Sure its four years, sure you need to do some film and darkroom work and sure there is a number of general art classes required. But all in all she feels that the exposure she got from the extra time has given her a better eye for photography and has revived her creativity when shooting. This is not to say that someone can be successful taking the SAIT course, however the art-centered environment of ACAD provided a place for Stacey to be creative and also reinforced the ability to be creative.

She has been involved in a number of school run shows. Along with a number of shows that are student run (her and a group of friends ran a Lomo show for a month) at the Marion Nicholl gallery. Both have also given her name exposure in the industry and has made MANY contacts with local photographers and has been asked on a number of occasions to assist for them.

SAIT and ACAD are two VERY different learning environments. The choice should be made based on Ekliptix's goals as a photographer.

[sputnik]

Here is a good explanation of ACAD's plan to move over to Digital Photography. Looks like Ekliptix wouldnt have to worry about chemical processing at all.

http://photography.acad.ca/about/StrategicPlan/gate.html

[Ekliptix]

Thank you for the feedback guys, and girl. I was having another look at the course and there are sure a lot of supplies and equipment required.


Originally posted by sputnik
My finance is in the 3rd year of the Photography (BDes) program at ACAD.

One thing to remember with ACAD is that you are required to take a core year for your first year in which you will be taking painting, drawing and other art classes with only one photography class per semester. You also need a diverse art portfolio before you can get in. So you might want to check the requirements for that.

The reason why the applications are being refused at this moment is that they are restructuring the program to become more of a vocational program instead of being a fine arts program. So more digital work will be included. Also, like getting into ACAD in general, you need a photography portfolio to get into the photography program (so thats 2 portfolios, one for your core year and one to get into photography). However, your work should be more than acceptable.



I have seen that ACAD has pumped out some great success stories.

I'm curious about whether your finance has been able to bring in income through photography while she's been attending ACAD.

About the portfolio submissions, I could not tell by the info on their site if an additional portfolio is required after finishing the core year.

The idea of basing one's future income heavily on the ability to make contacts and contracts after graduating the program is a little unnerving, so thanks for this info.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Ekliptix
I'm curious about whether your finance has been able to bring in income through photography while she's been attending ACAD.

About the portfolio submissions, I could not tell by the info on their site if an additional portfolio is required after finishing the core year.

The idea of basing one's future income heavily on the ability to make contacts and contracts after graduating the program is a little unnerving, so thanks for this info.

Income is certainly possible. However, at times the courseload can get pretty heavy. She worked at Don's Photo while in school (only about 12 hrs/week) however this opened the doors to quite a number of assisting jobs, since she was constantly in contact with local pros.

I guess it depends on how many hours you have available in the week. There isnt any shortage of work, however school may cripple your schedule to the point that you will have 3-4 weeks in succession where you will barely be able to work at all. That being said, I am sure there are TONS of little jobs available that could be done during the school year... even at the busiest of times.

In Stacey's situation, because she didnt have to work as much (lives at home - limited expenses) she chose to focus on school and her own personal portfolio. Even after graduation, she doesnt plan to be able to "jump" right into photography but will probably take little jobs as they come but spend a good amount of time assisting for the more successful pros in Calgary. The move from learning to working is a transition process and learning from other people should stay a focus in your career for years or decades after you graduate. You cant expect to just pop onto workopolis.com and apply for the photography jobs, because they just dont exist.

As for the portfolio to enter second year. It is definately a requirement. Its not as big as you think it is, but you need a specific number of shots in a variety of styles and subjects before you can officially enter the photo major.

Good luck in your soul searching. See if you can meet people in the photo industry. Photospace Gallery would be a great place to meet a number of pros if you are brave. Or at the very least talk to the people that run it. They are exceptionally friendly (Stacey volunteers for them occasionally).