Why wasn't the ST205 GT-Four imported to Canada?

[FallenAngel]

I'm not sure if this subject came up already, I did a search but didn't find exactly what I am looking for.

I'm looking for information as to why the Toyota Celica ST205 GT-Four (AllTrac Turbo) was never brought to (or sold in) Canada. (Or North America for that matter) In particular, I am curious to see if it actually meets the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards or the United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

Just so that the question isn't beaten to death, the reason I am asking is because of the information that I found HERE (http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4140/rc4140-e.html). If you check under the section Importing vehicles from countries other than the United States and subsection Exceptions there are a few that can be applied.

I haven't yet contacted the officials, mostly because I don't know enough about ST205's to make an intelligent conversation with a government official who probably speaks to 16 year-olds all day about why they can't import a Skyline.

I chose to inquire about the ST205 GT-Four because of the model that currently exists here (namely, the 6th Gen Celica GT-S) and I am hoping that they are not too dissimilar that the GT-Four does not comply.

I have read that there are ST205's that have been imported to the States, but I'm not sure of American laws on importing. (I assume that they met the United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards in order to be imported)

Don't flame or make stupid comments please. I'm looking for information, not a fight.

Thanks in advance.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by FallenAngel

I'm looking for information as to why the Toyota Celica ST205 GT-Four (AllTrac Turbo) was never brought to (or sold in) Canada. (Or North America for that matter)


I chose to inquire about the ST205 GT-Four because of the model that currently exists here (namely, the 6th Gen Celica GT-S) and I am hoping that they are not too dissimilar that the GT-Four does not comply.



Here is some pre-mature information:

The Gen. 5 (ST18*)Celica was the last design with variety (ST, GT, GTS, AllTrac) by the time the Gen. 6(ST20*) rolled out Toyota declined its variety to ST and GT only (GTS was dropped internationally) for North America and GT-Four addition to its target market in Europe and Australia.

The MKIV supra was relased in '93 and was readily accepted as Toyota's 'Performance' vehicle. Toyota had a very selective market in North America where 'gas-efficient' racers were not an issue. Toyota released the Supra with a price tag of $50,000+ and were hoping for a name dependability to soar sales. If the GT-Four was also relased, people would hesitate to pay $50,000 for 320bhp of fast thrills and would settle for 255bhp for about half the price.

In Europe, Australia and parts of Asia there has also been a very local and much larger following for rally racing which was dominated by ST185, ST165, ST205 for many years. WRC was not readily accepted by the American crowd who were quite content and fascinated by domestics 'left-turn-only' racing (NASCAR)

As for simmilarities between the Gen. 6 GT and a GT-Four, in theory they should be similar enough (safety wise) but transport Canada will find a world of difference but it doesn't hurt to research it. Air-bags and crash test rating would different for both cars since the weight is off by a few hundred pounds. Note: when i tried takin my Gen. 5 GT-S to the states they said that the seatbelts were not up to par and modding them would cost $4,800. Be ready for that kind of BS.

I, personally, am waiting for the day i can import it legally. That would definately be a car to make others nervous.

my two cents about my opinions. will share more 'official' info. when i can find it out.

[FallenAngel]

Thanks for your response. I suppose I should probably find a Celica or Toyota forum to post this in, does anybody have any recommendations?

[mx73someday]

www.dorikaze.com - Canadian Toyota group (mostly older cars though)

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by FallenAngel
Thanks for your response. I suppose I should probably find a Celica or Toyota forum to post this in, does anybody have any recommendations?

Your best bests:

http://gt4oc.com/

http://alltrac.net/

http://www.gtfour.ca/celicalinks.html

[BumpinTalon]

if the front end has drastic revisions from the Canadian domestic market Celicas, that is enough to tell if it is equivalent enough to import. As well, those exemptions generally only apply if you are bringing that vehicle from the States, and I am not certain if the same rules could apply to cars from Japan.
redbaron303 could answer this question better then anyone can. PM him.

[GT-FOUR]

Toyota stopped importing the Alltrac / turbo 4WD edition of the Celica to north america in mid-1993 due to really poor sales. They were very expensive cars...in present day $$ you are talking a little higher than what an STi costs today.

In short, to your question, NO you can not legally import an ST205 into the country.

There have been a very few select cases of people bringing them to USA. In one case, the VIN #'s were swapped from an existing Celica, and the car has been insured and registered illegally. In another case, the car is not legally insured at the moment. There is one ST205 in Calgary that I know of, although it is not currently insurable.

Your best bet and most likely chance of getting one is to wait until 2009. After this point, you will be able to import the early models from 1994 due to Canada's 15 year rule.

Good sources for Celica GT-four information are http://www.celicatech.com and http://www.alltrac.net .

So anyways my advice to you is to either buy an ST165 or an ST185 now, or wait till '09 and import an ST205.

[abcdef1234]

To put things in perspective as a UK 205 owner I have to tell you:

1. Getting your hands on one of these babies WOULD be worth the effort.

2. Toyota lost money on 205s and only ever made them to rally

3. As for cost I've had my conversion calculator out and have to tell you in the UK in 1995 these cars sold for $75,000 US dollars.

4. They will NEVER pass US emissions --- they overfuel and pump clouds of black smoke out of the back --- normally

5. Many don't have airbags or ABS, let alone the 'right ones'

6. Vent filled bonnets and underbonnet hard points would not pass pedestrian safety

[heavyD]

Originally posted by GT-FOUR
Toyota stopped importing the Alltrac / turbo 4WD edition of the Celica to north america in mid-1993 due to really poor sales. They were very expensive cars...in present day $$ you are talking a little higher than what an STi costs today.

You can blame DSM's for the poor sales. They offered the same AWD performance for thousands U.S. less. Sure the Celica had better build quality but it was heavier and a little slower in North America so really the only selling point for the Alltrac's over DSM's were build quality which made them a pretty hard sale.